Author Topic: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.  (Read 71977 times)

Offline CrazyModder

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #75 on: April 20, 2014, 07:05:48 PM »
Redhat and Suse are backed by big companies. Which is important in a commercial (server) setting - you get certified Oracle compatibility, for example, and (costly) support. Certainly not relevant to the private user. Aside from that, SUSE prides itself on YAST2, which is a rather nice management thingy. Oh, and it used to be a German company, if that counts for anything, until being bought out by Novell.

Offline mattinker

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #76 on: April 20, 2014, 07:55:07 PM »
David
If you keep tempting me this way I am going to have to go and get my 386-16 out that I purchased in 1989 and have been carying it around in its original box for 20 years. With as much as I paid for it back then I can't bear to part with it. If I remember it has DOS 4.0 or earlier on it.
 :doh: I wonder if I could load some flavour of Linux onto it to replace my unsuported Win XP?  :D :D
Don

I don't know much about PCs of that era, maybe you could try one of these distributions, please, don't take my word for it, if anybody has a better idea, chime in, I'm not an expert.

http://mashtips.com/lightweight-os/

I just did what I always do and searched "lightweight ubuntu system for a 1989 computer".  I do my troubleshooting that way!

Regards, Matthew.

Offline BaronJ

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #77 on: April 21, 2014, 03:14:16 PM »
Hi All,

Yggdrasil Linux was probably the first distribution based on the original code that Linus Torvill released.  It became so popular that it was published bound into a book written all about it.  The book covered most of how to modify the code supplied on the disk, a single (5.25") floppy, to suit your hardware, how to compile and link the code to produce an elf binary, then how to execute that code.  Whilst I doubt that I could do that today, it was a real eye opener in those early days.  One chapter sticks in my mind...
How to compile the compiler so you could compile the code you had.

Heady days.   :clap:

Best Regards:
                     Baron

Online philf

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #78 on: April 21, 2014, 04:08:29 PM »
I have followed this subject with interest and, reading the most recent posts, have now come to the conclusion that Linux and all its derivatives are not for the faint hearted and are not just install and forget as some would have us believe. Not being able to run my existing software was the real killer for me.    :(

Computer nerds may have the time and patience to overcome all the shortcomings and difficulties but I, and I expect many others, don't need the hassle.

I have used XP for many years and even the much criticised Vista with very few problems and will continue to do so for as long as possible. (Or until I have to buy a new computer.) I'm not saying Microsoft are anywhere near perfect but to the average guy like me who's fairly confident with computers XP did everything I needed. I use Avast Antivirus and they say they will continue to provide AV upgrades for XP for some years. I stopped doing auto updates a long time ago. Regular housekeeping on an XP or Vista system (using e.g. CCleaner which selectively cleans out cookies, cleans the registry and can stop many processes starting unecessarily) can keep them running sweetly

There are iOS fans out there who decry Microsoft OSs. Those of you who use Facetime on iPads and iPhones  to keep in touch with family and friends may have found that it stopped working last week and the only fix seems to be to upgrade to iOS 7. (OK the upgrade was free but it's still annoying.) Apple won't own up to causing the problem.

Many, including me, have had problems with Internet Explorer, but out of all the browsers I have tried it works better on some sites than any other. I got rid of Firefox a long time ago because it kept stalling my computer if I had many tabs open at one time. (I can have 8 tabs on the go if I am working on my family history.) I now use Google Chrome as my browser of choice but every now and then have to open eBay in IE to delete watched items from My eBay which Chrome refuses to do point blank.

My introduction to computers at home was with an Acorn Atom followed by 2 BBC Model Bs and a BBC Plus with all of 64K. I still have the BBCs and miss the instant switch on and run. Programs stored in ROM were instant. I even had a WYSIWYG word processor for the BBC when at work we were using crap like Multimate on an 8086 IBM PC. I still have the three BBCs.

For many years I kept a very old IBM PC under my desk which didn't even have a 5 1/4" drive - it had a cassette interface! I had to bin it when we moved office.

If anyone wants a Compaq SLT 286 laptop that cost (thankfully not me!) $5,399 which weighs only 14 pounds they're welcome to come and collect it.

http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/2223/Compaq-Portable-slt-286-1903/

 :beer:

Phil.








Phil Fern
Location: Marple, Cheshire

Offline AdeV

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #79 on: April 21, 2014, 06:10:42 PM »
Quote
If anyone wants a Compaq SLT 286 laptop that cost (thankfully not me!) $5,399 which weighs only 14 pounds they're welcome to come and collect it.

That reminds me, I _must_ come around to collect that vice & have a chin-wag....

I actually have a BBC "B" sat right here beside me, with the desirable (and ubiquitous) Microvetec CUB monitor & a dual floppy of unknown origin.  It's not quite an instant start - you have to wait for the monitor to warm up first, but I won't begrudge you the beeb's "boo-beep!" starting signal. My old QL took longer to get going, but then it did do a RAM check on all 128K, then waited for you to tell it if you had a monitor or TV attached... The Sharp MZ-80B & MZ-80K that occupy the space to the left of the Beeb take even longer to boot - you have to load the OS from tape! Or use the built-in Monitor app to manually key machine code of course... tedious, but not impossible.

AS for the long-gone and much lamented HP1000, that was one of those computers you could program MC from the front panel.... if you knew Octal. I did find a program that made it count up & down the indicator lights, which I actually keyed & got working. Shame it needed 2 filing-cabinet sized cabs to live in, excluding the external tape drive (about the size of a dishwasher). Heady stuff.

I still have a working MicroVAX 3100 here, another cracking machine, if only it didn't need re-licencing annually, a procedure I forget how to do every damn year.
Cheers!
Ade.
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Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Occasionally: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...

Online philf

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #80 on: April 22, 2014, 03:54:56 AM »
That reminds me, I _must_ come around to collect that vice & have a chin-wag....
Hi Ade,

It's still here waiting patiently!
Quote
I still have a working MicroVAX 3100 here, another cracking machine, if only it didn't need re-licencing annually, a procedure I forget how to do every damn year.

We had many MicroVAXes at work controlling our diffusion furnaces. We only had one guy (strangely enough also called Ade!) who really understood them. He was once on holiday and a hard disk went down. I and another guy tried with some expert telephone and email help from the States to get it running again by configuring a new hard drive. We wasted the best part of a week and got absolutely nowhere. :scratch: They're definitely not for the faint hearted.

I keep looking at an upgrade to the BBC which gives it USB connectivity and thus access to vast amounts of solid state storage: http://www.retroclinic.com/acorn/datacentre/datacentre.htm

I do have the free version of BBC Basic for Windows which allows me to keep my hand in and to use some old programs I wrote in the 80s. The paid for version allows you to compile your basic progs into an executable. The paid for version is only £29.99.

You haven't said if you want the Compaq!

Cheers.

Phil.
Phil Fern
Location: Marple, Cheshire

Offline BaronJ

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #81 on: April 22, 2014, 10:11:24 AM »
Hi Phil,

Don't let the old days put you off !
Linux today is nothing like it was, even five years ago.

Go and download yourself a live CD/DVD image and burn it to a disc.  Stick it into the drive and boot from it.  There are plenty of distributions to choose from.  Over 300 at last count.  My current preference is PCLinuxOS with the Trinity Desktop.

The whole idea of a live CD is so that you can have a look and see.  It won't make any changes to your machine unless you tell it to.
The software on the CD will examine your machine and configure itself to suit.  If you have an active internet connection you should be able to surf the web from the off. 




Best Regards:
                     Baron

Offline garym

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #82 on: April 22, 2014, 10:24:21 AM »
Hi,

My first computer was a Microtan 65 built from a kit in the early eighties. It was based on the 6502 processor like the BBC models. It had a whopping 1K RAM and 1K ROM. I also bought the extension board Tanex which gave me another 7K of RAM. The two boards between them had about 2000 soldered joints. I remember taking an afternoon off work to finish the soldering, I was that excited about getting it working. I reluctantly threw it in the bin a few years ago after keeping it on top of a cupboard for thirty years.

Gary
Workshop activity resumes now ankle improving :-)

Offline BaronJ

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #83 on: April 22, 2014, 10:36:48 AM »
Hi,

My first computer was a Microtan 65 built from a kit in the early eighties. It was based on the 6502 processor like the BBC models. It had a whopping 1K RAM and 1K ROM. I also bought the extension board Tanex which gave me another 7K of RAM. The two boards between them had about 2000 soldered joints. I remember taking an afternoon off work to finish the soldering, I was that excited about getting it working. I reluctantly threw it in the bin a few years ago after keeping it on top of a cupboard for thirty years.

Gary

Hi Gary,

I know what you mean !  I'm going through that process at the moment.  I've still got my original IBM XT and really its just junk collecting dust...

Best Regards:
                     Baron

Offline awemawson

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #84 on: April 22, 2014, 11:15:43 AM »
..he ..he ... back in the late 1970's we got the entire white goods warehouse stock and stock control program of Eastern Electricity, and the necessary code to drive automatic order picking cranes onto a 1.37 mega BIT Sperry drum store attached to a Ferranti Argus 500. Ran for years very reliably. That was at Waltham Cross, but now demolished.

Programmers appreciated memory in those days and weren't profligate with it - the machine had 16K of store - magnetic core store. Had the advantage I could load a test program in the office, drive to site, run the test with no loading up, and be sure that the customers program was untouched :)

Programs were written in Coral66 - I bet not many people can do that these days.

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline John Stevenson

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #85 on: April 22, 2014, 11:35:16 AM »

Go and download yourself a live CD/DVD image and burn it to a disc.  Stick it into the drive and boot from it.  There are plenty of distributions to choose from.  Over 300 at last count. 

So that's immediately put most Windows users off who have been brought up on 3 operating systems.

Which one do you choose out of the 300 ? stick a pin in ?
John Stevenson

Offline awemawson

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #86 on: April 22, 2014, 12:23:59 PM »

Go and download yourself a live CD/DVD image and burn it to a disc.  Stick it into the drive and boot from it.  There are plenty of distributions to choose from.  Over 300 at last count. 

So that's immediately put most Windows users off who have been brought up on 3 operating systems.

Which one do you choose out of the 300 ? stick a pin in ?


Like him or loath him that is one good thing Bill Gates did - offer a platform that was pretty much universally standardised. However 'non ideal' the standard is it creates far easier inter working between people continents apart.

I remember when IBM offered 'standard interfaces' on the first IBM PC, the mini computer manufacturers thought they were mad  as propriety interfaces held customers captive. In practise it opened the market and at the time IBM prospered.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline John Stevenson

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #87 on: April 22, 2014, 01:10:15 PM »


 :lol:
John Stevenson

Offline CrazyModder

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #88 on: April 22, 2014, 02:49:53 PM »

Go and download yourself a live CD/DVD image and burn it to a disc.  Stick it into the drive and boot from it.  There are plenty of distributions to choose from.  Over 300 at last count. 

So that's immediately put most Windows users off who have been brought up on 3 operating systems.

Which one do you choose out of the 300 ? stick a pin in ?

Someone who is interested in the system will, with a quick google search, immediately find the beginner friendly distributions that have been mentioned here. That's not 300, but 2 or 3 big ones - which one the beginner picks is totally unimportant and more of a flavour decision. If the person balks at that first step, regarding that first decision as chore instead of a joyful experience, then indeed Linux is most probably not for him. And that's not an attack against anyone - I know bright and experienced people who simply do not want such choices.

People who have zero interest in how the PC works, what it does "behind the curtain" and just want to browse the 'net, do some email, maybe Skype, some office work etc. have little incentive to look for Linux indeed.

If someone wants the features offered by Linux, differenciating it from Windows, then it's there, free to grab at anytime. One of those features is that every single piece of the OS can be influenced, and obviously this power puts some responsibility on the user. Needless to say, that's exactly what the Linux folks want.

I myself develop and run software on Linux servers at work, using a windows PC (no choice, I would prefer a Linux workstation as it would integrate more seamless with the Linux servers). At home, I have small Linux servers for my networking needs (and for fun), but the PC I write this on is Windows, again. Simply because I am totally happy with Windows 7 and play the occasional game - that's not the forte of Linux.

I may convert my main PC to Linux in many years if Windows 7 should become unusable (why would it?) and the current Windows flavour at that moment (Win 9? Win 10?) will not deviate massively from Windows 8, which I tried and found unacceptable.

Offline BaronJ

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #89 on: April 22, 2014, 03:58:49 PM »


 :lol:

That's cruelty to harmless Tux...   :palm:
Best Regards:
                     Baron

Offline BaronJ

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #90 on: April 22, 2014, 04:01:04 PM »

Go and download yourself a live CD/DVD image and burn it to a disc.  Stick it into the drive and boot from it.  There are plenty of distributions to choose from.  Over 300 at last count. 

So that's immediately put most Windows users off who have been brought up on 3 operating systems.

Which one do you choose out of the 300 ? stick a pin in ?

Someone who is interested in the system will, with a quick google search, immediately find the beginner friendly distributions that have been mentioned here. That's not 300, but 2 or 3 big ones - which one the beginner picks is totally unimportant and more of a flavour decision. If the person balks at that first step, regarding that first decision as chore instead of a joyful experience, then indeed Linux is most probably not for him. And that's not an attack against anyone - I know bright and experienced people who simply do not want such choices.

People who have zero interest in how the PC works, what it does "behind the curtain" and just want to browse the 'net, do some email, maybe Skype, some office work etc. have little incentive to look for Linux indeed.

If someone wants the features offered by Linux, differenciating it from Windows, then it's there, free to grab at anytime. One of those features is that every single piece of the OS can be influenced, and obviously this power puts some responsibility on the user. Needless to say, that's exactly what the Linux folks want.

I myself develop and run software on Linux servers at work, using a windows PC (no choice, I would prefer a Linux workstation as it would integrate more seamless with the Linux servers). At home, I have small Linux servers for my networking needs (and for fun), but the PC I write this on is Windows, again. Simply because I am totally happy with Windows 7 and play the occasional game - that's not the forte of Linux.

I may convert my main PC to Linux in many years if Windows 7 should become unusable (why would it?) and the current Windows flavour at that moment (Win 9? Win 10?) will not deviate massively from Windows 8, which I tried and found unacceptable.

I'm with you 110% on this one !

Best Regards:
                     Baron

Offline Pete.

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #91 on: April 22, 2014, 04:34:11 PM »
I've been meaning to have a go at Linux for a while and this might be a timely thread to spur me on. I have a Atom-powered micro Pc that I plan to put in the workshop to replace my aging desktop. It's a 1.8Ghz 64 bit cpu with 2GB of ram. Trouble is it has no hard drive or dvdrom. I've recently tried loading a portable copy of XP onto a 8GB flash drive with very little success. Seems that Linux might take to the USB stick a bit easier but like people above have said, it's difficult to know which build to go for. So far I have always only used Microsoft operating systems.

Offline dsquire

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #92 on: April 22, 2014, 06:12:49 PM »

Hi

Sorry to be slow in answering but the Easter Bunny kept getting in the way.  :med:

CrazyModder

Thankyou for your explanation of the Unix system. Using the world as an example helps to show the bigger picture and make it easier to understand.  :thumbup:

Ade

Thanks for your help as well. Giving meaning to the individual terms and/or words answers a lot of questions. Now maybe I can ask some questions that are not quite as stupid.  :clap:

Matthew

Thanks for the link and the tip as well.  :thumbup:

DavidA

I think a special thanks should go out to David for starting this thread. By the number and variety of responses to it I think it has been very well received and I am hoping that it will continue to grow with more tips and questions/answers.   :med:

To all the others that responded a big thank you as well. You have certainly helped me to understand what some of the terminalogy stands for. It may take me a while but I will be putting some flavour of Unix on one of my machines in the future.  :D  :)

Cheers  :beer:

Don


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Offline garym

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #93 on: April 22, 2014, 06:29:12 PM »
Same here, Pete. From the mid nineties when I was definitely a Microsoft fan and knew Win 3.1 and 95 inside out I've gradually come to dislike Windows even though I still use it. I had a look at Linux quite a while ago (probably ten years) and the interface was so different I decided it was not worth the hassle of learning it. Since the demise of support for XP I've been having another look and tried the Live CD version of Linux Mint Mate which a couple of people had recommended as one of the easiest to move to from Windows. I was surprised how much the interface had improved and will have a go at installing it properly when I've backed up the stuff on my desktop PC. Since buying an Android tablet I also realised that my use of computers has changed over the years to the point where I wasn't using much software at all other than a web browser. I still prefer keeping most files on local hard disks rather than on the net otherwise a Chromebook might be a good choice. I'll still probably have to buy a Win 8 laptop to replace the one I'm writing this on though.

Gary
Workshop activity resumes now ankle improving :-)

Offline clivel

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #94 on: April 22, 2014, 06:30:17 PM »
For those who don't want to take the leap to Linux, but are interested in saving some money or just interested in exploring open source software, then I suggest that instead of spending a small fortune on MS Office, one could try one of the free office suites - either LibreOffice or OpenOffice.

Both offer similar functionality to MS Office and can import and export MS Office compatible documents. It seems a shame that they are not more popular given just how expensive the equivalent MS offering is.

Offline DaveH

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #95 on: April 22, 2014, 07:00:43 PM »
LibreOffice - now that I do use  :D
 :beer:
DaveH
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Offline cwelkie

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #96 on: April 22, 2014, 07:42:30 PM »
Okay - it's time.

Spurred on by this thread I installed the latest version of Ubuntu on my Dell XPS last Saturday.  It worked ... I'm writing this from within Firefox and Ubuntu!
I did a parallel installation (Win7) because I use Alibre and CamBam and frankly wanted the security of still having a working laptop.
I'm no modern IT genius.  Sure I was using and building PC's (in the dark ages) alongside many of you ... Altair 8080's, CPM, ZCPM, custom bios's and all that.  At some point I just turned into "a user".
The only hiccup I had was having to shrink my WIN partition to make space for Ubuntu before the installation would prompt me to install in parallel.

Why am I sharing this? ... just so as a real-world example for someone reading this thread that it really is as easy as advertised.  I have a feeling that I'm going to leave my laptop set-up this way for a long long time.
It takes about the same length of time to boot up but it sure shuts down and goes to sleep faster!  It's been a short time but everything I've tried or used seems to work very well.  I know it's a very suggestive opinion but the machine seems much less "stifled" and spends a lot less time accessing the hard drive.  (First guess is because the huge overhead of MacAfee is gone!)  One huge surprise bonus (to me) was being able to access all my old documents already on the hard drive!

In the end it's gone well and I can recommend trying it out ... you might enjoy the sense of accomplishment. 
Cheers
Charlie

Offline mattinker

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #97 on: April 22, 2014, 10:08:56 PM »
My personal experience with Linux operating systems has been six years of running Ubuntu on old computers that have cost me nothing. Three or four year old machines outdated by the armaments race and built in obsolescence being given away. Recently, I splashed out and rebuilt two machines, cheaply. I have one machine that is office type stuff and Video and the other which is my Juke Box, music and radio. I am running Ubuntu Studio on both PCs, a distribution that is relatively light which has the relatively light Xde desktop that is not too RAM hungry.  In the current Ubuntu distributions there are two families of desktop, the light Xde and the more complex Kde desktop, which has more "eye candy" and uses more Ram! I think that there is an interesting "happy medium" in Ubuntu, it is sufficiently large to have a lot of people working on it which leads to a consistent product. There are a lot of small distributions that can have innovative ideas, which if the core programmers move on risk collapsing. As all of this is open source, the good ideas can circulate freely and are available for the common good. Most off the Linux world is free and doesn't cost anything to the non commercial user. Linux is free in that it can be used and modified by all, it is not free like a free beer, if you was to work on something specific you can pay for the development of your product.

At the moment I have one machine running really well, and the other I have a material hardware compatibility problem, not a Ubuntu problem, I have to update the Bios!

The only thing that is difficult for a beginner is that you have to be able to go into the Bios to set the startup to the CD/DVD player or the USB device that has the system to be installed. A Linux distribution burnt to a CD or DVD is the easiest way to start, once you have a system running, you can use the "Start up disk creator" in the system menu to make a thumb drive or USB disk to install future systems from. If you follow the instructions, it is relatively easy to install a distribution of Linux, extremely similar to a Mac installation. I have never installed Windows on anything, so I don't know how it compares.

Regards, Matthew

Offline Pete49

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #98 on: April 22, 2014, 11:17:38 PM »
I've been following this for a while now and d/l the iso for mint. BUT now to decide and the problem I have is both the desktop and laptop have the win os in a protected section of the HD which is fine IF I decide I don't like Linux and want to revert to windo$e XP so I do I go about it. I also have an older laptop with '98 on it which I was toying with a light version as Matt linked to just in case It can be useable as a learning option.  :scratch:
MMMM I also found my old TRS 80 and tapes ....still works too) an old com 64 and oh look an Atari that needs a tv  :D
Time to throw out stuff?...Nah my heirs can deal with it  :lol:
Pete
oops..........oh no.........blast now I need to redo it

Offline mattinker

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Re: To Ubuntu or not to Ubuntu; that is the question.
« Reply #99 on: April 23, 2014, 01:00:21 AM »
Pete,

Start your Linux experimenting with a live CD or DVD, that way, you can decide whether you want to install Linux. A live CD will allow you to startup and use your computer under a Linux distribution without changing anything!

Regards, Matthew