Author Topic: Mill Drill problems  (Read 18849 times)

Offline PJW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: gb
Mill Drill problems
« on: May 09, 2014, 09:00:28 AM »
Hi I have a clarke mill drill x2 type machine, I have now broken the gear in the headstock for the second time now, I did have a spare so I am not stuck. is there a belt conversion available for this type of machine? I have tried to replace my spare but cant get one till the end of the month :doh:
 can anyone help please?

Peter
Old Guys Rule the Dark Side of the Shed!

Online awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2014, 09:19:55 AM »
Bad luck

I have no experience of this machine but the questions occur to me - why two broken gears in such a short time? What material are they made from? Are you perhaps overloading the machine? I'd imagine it's probably a standard imperial or metric size, though the bore may be a special. There are specialty gear suppliers 'out there' who can supply over night if needed.

I use HPC, but google will find others

http://www.hpcgears.com/
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline John Rudd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2525
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2014, 09:28:06 AM »
There are many variants of the X2 mill....and a number of variations on a belt drive.
I converted mine ( a Chester offering) to belt drive using the Jerry Rollet plans and have never looked back.....

There are metal gears about but I dont see the point as the belt conversion makes the machine so much quieter......

Drop me an email and I'll forward you a copy of the plans if you want to go this route..........
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location:  Backworth Newcastle

Skype: chippiejnr

Offline Deko

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 258
  • Country: england
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2014, 10:25:58 AM »
Hi Peter,
               You could no doubt get a new gear from www.arceurotrade.co.uk ,they carry lots of spares and a quick word with anyone there and they will tell you  a) if they have one that will fit, and b) how soon they could get one to you.  I have found over the years that they are very quick with deliveries and good on price.

Cheers Dek.

P.S. You are not a million miles from Harrogate so get yourself over there on Saturday and have a natter with a few of us balmpots.

Offline Stilldrillin

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4972
  • Country: gb
  • Staveley, Derbyshire. England.
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #4 on: May 09, 2014, 10:49:04 AM »
Peter.
As you mentioned, elsewhere. You'd like to make your own belt  conversion. Seems John's your man, for plans.....   :smart:

But, if you're stuck for replacements, I've got a couple of sets, under my bench.......  :thumbup:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline John Rudd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2525
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2014, 11:52:11 AM »
Just be careful in sourcing your spare gears....
Not all mini mills are the same as I said earlier.....spindle diameters are the major point....the plans that I used for my belt job were for one version and I found my spindle dims to be different so had to make adjustments on the fly......
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location:  Backworth Newcastle

Skype: chippiejnr

Offline PJW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2014, 12:21:46 PM »
Ok John, I will check the sizes before i start cutting metal, I will have plenty of time as I have to order all the materials as I have no stocks.,

Peter
Old Guys Rule the Dark Side of the Shed!

Offline PJW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2014, 12:28:49 PM »
What belts do you use & are they easy to obtain?? :coffee:
Old Guys Rule the Dark Side of the Shed!

Offline John Rudd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2525
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2014, 01:16:54 PM »
The belts should be readily available..... I got my stock from a local bearing factors.

Anyone that is an Optibelt stockist should carry or be able to obtain them....
IIRC they were around £5......I'm still on my first belt after around 7 years of abuse using my machine.....
Check this out, third post down.....some pics I took of mine.....
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f28/mini-mill-belt-conversion-5831/


In fact even better look here.....closer to home  :D
http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,1393.msg12620.html#msg12620
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location:  Backworth Newcastle

Skype: chippiejnr

Offline PJW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2014, 02:06:38 PM »
Hi John, I sent you an email for the plans, My machine is very similar to yours, but the motor is different, my motor is like the one shown below your pictures in the red miller.

Once again thank you for the plans & when they arrive I will start to order the ally for it,

Peter
Old Guys Rule the Dark Side of the Shed!

Offline BaronJ

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Country: gb
  • Grumpy Old Git !
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #10 on: May 09, 2014, 02:18:25 PM »
Bad luck

I have no experience of this machine but the questions occur to me - why two broken gears in such a short time? What material are they made from? Are you perhaps overloading the machine? I'd imagine it's probably a standard imperial or metric size, though the bore may be a special. There are specialty gear suppliers 'out there' who can supply over night if needed.

I use HPC, but google will find others

http://www.hpcgears.com/

When I busted the plastic gears in my mill, HPC were brilliant in helping me sort them out.
I've no relationship to HPC, just a happy customer.

Best Regards:
                     Baron

Offline PJW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #11 on: May 09, 2014, 02:36:13 PM »
I have used HPC a few weeks ago for two gears for the webster IC engine, they were very good but a little expensive. I picked two catalogues on CD, if anyone would like one just get in touch! I was using a carbide endmill when it wend bang, plastic gears, the belt conversion seems the best way to go!

Peter
Old Guys Rule the Dark Side of the Shed!

Offline John Rudd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2525
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2014, 03:18:54 PM »
Ok,
I sent two emails, firstly couldn't find them on the PC.....
Found on a cd and forwarded to you ....


True madmodder spirit.... I won't be deterred from helping... :)


You need to post up what you make as you repair your mill please....... :dremel:
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location:  Backworth Newcastle

Skype: chippiejnr

Offline velocette

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
  • Country: nz
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #13 on: May 10, 2014, 05:29:35 AM »
Hi
I have an X2 Mill Drill with a belt drive conversion. Much better machine now quiet and more versatile than the gear drive.

Posted on "Mad Modder" a couple of years back Polyvee belt and fabricated my own pulleys.

http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,6706.msg71709.html#msg71709

Keep us posted

Eric

Offline PJW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #14 on: May 10, 2014, 06:24:48 AM »
Thanks for all the feedback, one more little bit of inf please, where is the best place to buy all the ali from, I have made a cutting list & ready to to get a quote!
 
Old Guys Rule the Dark Side of the Shed!

Offline John Rudd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2525
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2014, 07:55:31 AM »
Macc models......
Www.macc models.co.uk

4 in dia ally is £5-52....
Ebay for the plate.....in fact I think the thicknesses quoted are a bit ott for the main base plate....
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location:  Backworth Newcastle

Skype: chippiejnr

Offline BaronJ

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Country: gb
  • Grumpy Old Git !
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2014, 02:09:20 PM »
I have used HPC a few weeks ago for two gears for the webster IC engine, they were very good but a little expensive. I picked two catalogues on CD, if anyone would like one just get in touch! I was using a carbide endmill when it wend bang, plastic gears, the belt conversion seems the best way to go!

Peter

This thread starting 2nd page 10th post onwards, may interest you.
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f13/my-tool-grinder-22837/

Best Regards:
                     Baron

Offline PJW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2014, 04:23:07 PM »
I have seen metal replacements for sale for both the mills & lathes, but I dare not fit them for fear of what my go instead.
Old Guys Rule the Dark Side of the Shed!

Offline Arbalist

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 673
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2014, 04:35:23 PM »
Belts are the way to go I think. If anything goes awry on my Lathe the belt just slips!

Offline SwarfnStuff

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 588
  • Country: au
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2014, 01:58:23 AM »
Hi John,
         The belt conversion is not too difficult a mod if you want to make your own. I did it after smashing my plastic gears through the head dropping unexpectedly as I was adjusting the cutting depth.
        Having trouble sourcing the correct Vee Belt, I ended up using the round polyurethane belting that uses a brass barb joiner. This has been really good, the green heat welded stuff kept breaking the weld - possibly because of the small diameter of my motor pulleys.
        I made my pulleys to get a half speed and normal speed ratio mostly I use half speed = more torque.
        Go for it, you will not break gears cos there aren't any. The belt just slips  :D - Way better :lol:.
 John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline BaronJ

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Country: gb
  • Grumpy Old Git !
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2014, 09:09:48 AM »
Hi Guys n Gals,

Going for a belt conversion was the first thing I considered to replace the nasty plastic gears.  My mill design makes it almost impossible to do a belt conversion job without major construction work.

In my case it was only after the top gear failed and was removed that I discovered that the plastic duplex gear inside the head casing was machined off centre.   When rotating the spindle by hand I could feel that it was very tight in one spot and this was causing the repetitive thumping as the spindle was turning.  It was this that prompted the investigation into replacing this gear with metal ones.

Having made that decision it was a no brainer to go ahead and replace all of the plastic ones and in my case the bronze gear on the motor shaft as well.  As noted in my other thread, I used a 4mm square plastic key in the top gear as a shear pin.

The difference in the mill performance is astounding !  It is not really any noisier than it was before, it runs more smoothly, the surface finish is better and the spindle takes much longer to come to a stop.  A more noticeable difference is that the motor gets nowhere near as hot as it did before. 

After the original motor went up in smoke I fitted a fan to keep the replacement cool.  Now the fan is no longer in use, though I am going to fit a thermistor at some point so that the fan will only start up if the motor gets too hot.

Best Regards:
                     Baron

Offline PJW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2014, 02:10:04 PM »
I have gone down the belt drive option, I have ordered a kit as I have had two quotes for the ali, one was £143 inc vat & delivery, the other was £45.60. then I buy a belt & fixings total £50, the kit cost £60, hardly worth the effort in making it.
Old Guys Rule the Dark Side of the Shed!

Offline John Rudd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2525
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2014, 02:16:53 PM »
Could you post a link with kit details please?
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location:  Backworth Newcastle

Skype: chippiejnr

Offline PJW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2014, 03:48:32 PM »
http://www.mbbilici.com/?p=52  If you do the Paypal payment you save £5 with no Ebay, it comes to $102 inc postage
Old Guys Rule the Dark Side of the Shed!

Offline velocette

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
  • Country: nz
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2014, 05:04:23 PM »
Hi
Here is another source of belt drive conversion but expensive delivery costs
http://www.littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=2560&category=

Eric

Offline PJW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2014, 05:19:54 PM »
Yes, but it is $53 more before you add the postage, that is why I went for the Turkish one, i have also heard good reports from this site on this kit & read feedback from Ebay.
Old Guys Rule the Dark Side of the Shed!

Offline PJW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #26 on: May 22, 2014, 09:36:40 AM »
My belt conversion kit arrived today, it looked well made so I started the conversion. The whole job took approx half an hour taking my time, all the parts fitted well & the difference it made was enormous. I think this kit was well worth the money, I should have done this months ago :thumbup:
Old Guys Rule the Dark Side of the Shed!

Offline Stilldrillin

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4972
  • Country: gb
  • Staveley, Derbyshire. England.
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #27 on: May 22, 2014, 03:56:17 PM »
Welcome to the quiet(er), side Peter.......  :thumbup:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline SwarfnStuff

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 588
  • Country: au
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #28 on: May 23, 2014, 02:03:07 AM »
Told ya it was not too difficult. Plus you got the kit, so it would be an easy job. --- As David said, "Welcome to the quiet(er) side"  : :mmr:: Have fun and enjoy the hobby.
John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline PJW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #29 on: May 23, 2014, 02:55:47 AM »
Hi Dave, I have had a quick  look at the play on my quill knob starting at the rack, there is very little play here so it must be in the linkage between the front knob and the main capstan handle, hope to check this out later,

I dont miss them noisy fragile plastic gears, can you buy those Polymax belts in the uk?

Peter
Old Guys Rule the Dark Side of the Shed!

Offline Stilldrillin

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4972
  • Country: gb
  • Staveley, Derbyshire. England.
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2014, 06:12:52 PM »
can you buy those Polymax belts in the uk?

Peter

Can't help you with that one Peter. As my original belt came with the kit, from LMS.

But, you have reminded me. I need a spare 2L140, for my machine. http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,7643.msg82337.html#msg82337

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline BaronJ

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 243
  • Country: gb
  • Grumpy Old Git !
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #31 on: May 26, 2014, 07:23:41 AM »
Hi Peter,

Glad you got it sorted out OK.  You should be able to buy replacement belts here in the UK.
I needed one for my Forbco drill.  The local car spares shop had the exact same belt.  Cost me £3.89.
RS components do a range.

Best Regards:
                     Baron

Offline velocette

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 152
  • Country: nz
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #32 on: May 26, 2014, 05:06:36 PM »
Hi Peter
Pleased for you that the belt drive is a success and quiet running now prevails.
Modifying an X2 mill to your own preferences is very satisfying part of ownership.
Lots of clever and innovative posts on this forum that I follow with interest as the owner of a very much modified X2 Mill.
The "Z" Axis fine feed Has several problems than can be improved on.
The dog clutch to engage the worm drive play is excessive and a difficult one to remedy only by fabricating a new one.
The worm to the wormwheel has significant backlash again a problem to fix.
The shaft from the adjustment knob with a floppy coupling to the worm shaft can be eliminated and a solid shaft fabricated and fitted.
Make a new housing to support the shaft end behind the adjustment knob with a ball bearing to take the end thrust of the worm and not rely on the the gear box housing.

Have  lots of enjoyment from your mill
Stuck a photo on hope it can explain better than my attempt as a scribe

Eric

Offline PJW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2014, 02:59:36 AM »
 thank you for the response on the belts & I will take a close look at your mods Eric, I have made a few adjustments, I also found that the rack on the upright was loose, something I hadn't noticed. Tightening this made quite a differance! but still a lot of play in the spots you said.

Peter
Old Guys Rule the Dark Side of the Shed!

Offline John Rudd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2525
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2014, 08:15:42 AM »
Peter can you post up the belt number please?
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location:  Backworth Newcastle

Skype: chippiejnr

Offline PJW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2014, 01:31:22 PM »
Polyflex V belt MBL Polymax 5M335

I have fitted the larger handwheel for the quil & this is what it looks like now!
Old Guys Rule the Dark Side of the Shed!

Offline John Rudd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2525
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2014, 10:27:55 AM »
Peter,
Go to Beeline engineering, they're in Milton Keynes,
They stock 5m 335 belts in the Gates Polyflex range.....
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location:  Backworth Newcastle

Skype: chippiejnr

Offline PJW

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 53
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #37 on: June 02, 2014, 05:25:25 PM »
Thanks for the address, I have sent an email but no reply yet!

I have just removed the tightening knob off the mill & replaced it with an adjustable lever, a small mod but it works well, they do have one of these on the more expensive model.
Old Guys Rule the Dark Side of the Shed!

Offline John Rudd

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2525
  • Country: gb
Re: Mill Drill problems
« Reply #38 on: June 03, 2014, 05:08:28 AM »
I rang them......

£8-87 + vat.....
You need to order two to meet the minimum order quantity plus £7 carriage....
Might be cheaper if you live near by or can get someone to collect for you....
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location:  Backworth Newcastle

Skype: chippiejnr