Author Topic: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)  (Read 40352 times)

Offline mattinker

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #100 on: May 27, 2014, 01:17:55 PM »
Well you learn something every day !

Never come across that set up before, and I've pulled the odd engine apart in my time  :scratch:

Me too!

Regards, Matthew

Offline awemawson

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #101 on: May 27, 2014, 03:20:09 PM »
Interestingly, googling this for a bit of online research I find that one technique to promote valve rotation is to offset the rocker slightly from the centre of the valve, like your #1 was. Also I find that it's not a technique now recommended especially for diesels.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #102 on: May 27, 2014, 07:19:32 PM »
Well I've never seen it before either! But figured I'd better follow the manual. Anyway it's done.

Well if we're going to try to start this thing some time soon I needed to go shopping for uhhh..groceries:



« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 11:05:52 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #103 on: May 27, 2014, 07:35:28 PM »
So the first real project of the day was to drain the oil. That proved a real bear! I could not get a wrench to turn the oil drain plug.  You know how it is, lying on the dirt under the tractor, trying to stay far enough away that an accidental oil gusher misses your face, trying first an open end wrench -- no size seems to fit, or turn the plug, everything is too large or too small. Then trot up to the house to get a pipe wrench, since this seems like it must have been a square plug at one time, now rounded over. That doesn't work (a first -- it will even turn pipe, how can it not grip this plug?) then vise grips. They clamp, then slip.

Doggone it! How do I get this off. Then I notice chisel marks along the rim of this weird plug. Oh so that's it! Bang it round with a chisel.

So I dig around in the shop and return with a cold chisel and a hammer and start banging. Not easy hammering in that position, and I hit my wrist a good one at one point. Eventually the plug begins to budge but takes three more hits to really come loose.

Once it's out I can see the problem, It's just a soft cast iron plumbing drain plug with a rubber washer, and all of the square corners worn off -- it's huge by today's standards -- 3" across:

« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 11:08:04 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #104 on: May 27, 2014, 07:44:30 PM »
Well I don't want to put that back in and have to rely on a chisel to drain the oil in future. I briefly consider milling the sides straight again, but realize the square plug is cast hollow, and there isn't enough meat to mill off the rounded corners.

So I decide to fill in the corners with new weld metal. It's a small piece and I think I can get away with using 7018 rod to build it up, without cracking. So I clean it in MEK first and use the grinder to get to clean metal preparatory to welding:

« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 11:09:51 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #105 on: May 27, 2014, 07:53:54 PM »
The welding went successfully, and I ground the sides and corners square again. Sorry I forgot to take a photo. I painted the plug, and an hour later reinstalled it in the oil pan. A 1" open end wrench fit it perfectly.

Because the old oil was such an evil looking mess, I decided to give the engine a rinse with some kerosene. I poured two  quarts in and let it sit a couple hours before draining again. I think that really helped clean the pan better, from the looks of it. Finally I re-tightened the drain plug and added 5 quarts of fresh oil to the crankcase.

I also changed the oil filter and started the manifold onto its studs:

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« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 11:11:05 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #106 on: May 27, 2014, 08:34:47 PM »
I attacked the gas tank next. There was about a pint of old sour gasoline still in the tank, and I wanted to get that out  before mounting the tank on the tractor again. Not so easy. A flange around the filler hole blocked it from being poured that way. And the gas cock on the bottom of the tank didn't work well to drain the remaining fuel. There was a screen filter inside the tank and I had to shake the tank to get dribs and drabs out. Finally about a half a cup remained, and I called it done.

While the tank was upside down I noticed that it had been repaired -- there were stains around what looked like some loose filler. Yup, a hole, about 3/16" had been repaired with some kind of filler, that had deteriorated and was loose. I removed it and cleaned the area with moistened sandpaper (very slowly and carefully!) followed with a wipe of MEK and sealed it with a tube of goop I had in the shop that said it was specifically suitable for plugging gasoline tank leaks. Hope it does!

Next, it was time to remove the carburetor from the old manifold and check it. The glass sediment bowl was brown with varnish (not a good sign). I cleaned the sediment out, and painted the bowl with an orange based paint stripper. That cleaned it crystal clear again, Then I opened up the carburetor, expecting bad things. But it was surprisingly clean, and looked like a recently rebuilt carb. The only thing that probably should be replaced is the screen and cork gasket over the sediment bowl, since that looked to have started to deteriorate.

I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #107 on: May 27, 2014, 08:53:52 PM »
I put the Zenith back together again, and decided to torque the manifold first before mounting the carb. Another simple job that took longer than anticipated. The old manifold had come loose easily with just a socket wrench and extension. But the new one (made in Turkey) seemed to have bigger passages and thicker cruder castings.

As a result, the socket wrench could no longer be used for all the bolts. Some needed a box end wrench, some needed an open end, and there was barely enough room to turn some of the nuts even then. One washer had to be omitted because there just wasn't room for it. I couldn't torque it because I couldn't get a socket on all the bolts. So in the end I just had to estimate.

At about this time my weather/emergency radio started beeping furiously in the shop. I at first thought a piece of equipment was sounding the alarm -- though I actually don't have anything like that! Finally I realized i was the emergency radio. I hit the button and got a message from the emergency management system that a really bad thunderstorm was approaching the county just to the north of us. 60 mph winds, and golf ball sized hail they said! Also it was in slow rotation, and they would issue additional warnings if a tornado started to form.

Time to put away tools and cover the tractor. I had just got the carburetor mounted, and grabbed a photo before chasing down the tarp, which the wind had moved to a nearby bush. Here is the tractor at the end of the day:

« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 11:13:45 PM by vtsteam »
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline DavidA

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #108 on: May 28, 2014, 06:37:44 AM »
VT,

...I poured two  quarts in and let it sit a couple hours before draining again...

This could cause you problems.

I suspect that you may have just softened up the gunge that is laying on the bottom of the crankcase,  and this will come loose when you run the motor with it's new oil.

So you may get your oil filter bunging up in a very short time.

It would have been better to remove the sump and clean it out.

I would suggest,  if you don't want to do that (and who would) that you run the engine for a short while (until the oil is nice and warm) and then drain off the oil.  Replace it and the new filter.

Just my take on the possible problem.

Dave.

Offline vtsteam

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #109 on: May 28, 2014, 07:48:00 AM »
Hi David, I'm sure (and did hope) that the kero did loosen up gunge on the bottom of the pan. And removed a lot of it along with the remaining old thickened black oil.

After that, the plan was as you mentioned, to run the motor a short time, get it up to temperature and then drain the oil and replace the filter a second time. It's a two stage process. That's why there's two filters shown in my supplies photo.

The ford has a full flow system. All oil is filtered.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline DavidA

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #110 on: May 28, 2014, 09:44:33 AM »
Glad to see you anticipated what would happen.

Full flow filters are much better than by-pass filters. Just don't forget to change them.

Dave. :thumbup:

Offline vtsteam

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #111 on: May 28, 2014, 10:31:42 AM »
It's drizzling out today so I haven't done any work yet on the tractor. Maybe I can get the old muffler and headpipe off of the old manifold working indoors. Bolts are badly rusted and I might have to cut them off.

One nice thing about the Ford's oil pan that I forgot to mention yesterday, is that big 3" plug sits at the bottom of a round sump (depression) in the oil pan, and the sump is the diameter of the plug. So when you remove the plug you basically remove the bottom of the entire sump. And also since the plug is hollow, most buildup of hard sediment is going to be trapped there. And even that has it's own tiny sump, in  the form of the hollow square plug boss that I had so much trouble turning yesterday. When you remove that big drain plug, you can see in it what's in the pan.

Well there was no hard sediment buildup, even in the square hole of the plug. Just old black thickened oil. And that's what I mainly wanted to clear out of the system with the kerosene flush.

In the fifties many tractor engines were routinely cleaned by replacing the oil in the pan with kerosene, and actually starting the engine, running briefly to distribute the kerosene,  shutting down, and then draining the dirty kerosene out.


I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline awemawson

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #112 on: May 28, 2014, 01:01:31 PM »
No sign of the missing valve cap in there when you drained the old oil?

Interestingly, what you (stateside) call the oil pan, we here in the UK call the sump, so it's seems odd (but understandable) to hear you talk of a sump in the oil pan !

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #113 on: May 28, 2014, 01:39:19 PM »
Andrew, I haven't poured out the oil from the collection pan yet, so don't know if anything is in there. It's continuing to rain, and a bit chilly today.

I knew that you all called a sump, what we would call an oil pan, but couldn't figure out how to describe what was there any other way. Here a sump is a low point for collection in any fluid container. I didn't have a name for it otherwise! Recess, maybe? What would you call it your side of the pond? Is there a proper term?

(I figured you guys would get what I meant if I put "depression" in parenthesis.)

The sump's sump also had a sump in the lump on the plug.

Say that three times fast, if you can!  :)
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Steve
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Offline awemawson

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #114 on: May 28, 2014, 02:28:15 PM »
I chased the bug around the tree .... say that fast  :ddb:

In general terms a sump over here is also a low point to collect liquids. So in one house that I owned years ago I had a sump in the cellar with a submersible pump to keep the water table low.

Hope your weather clears up soon, I want to see that engine run  :ddb:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #115 on: May 29, 2014, 06:41:53 PM »
Andrew, yer gonna git yer wish tonight!  :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: Soon as I get a video all sorted out and uploaded on this slow connection.

Today I got the muffler and headpipe off the old manifold an put it on the new one, connected up the thermostat housing with a new gasket, reconnected the radiator and a new temperature gauge and a new oil gauge, and then spent a good long while adjusting the valves.

You do this by turning the crankshaft with a wrench and watching the valves -- the manual spells out which two should be open, to adjust a different pair, then turn crank and repeat for another pair, etc. four times. Spec said between .016 and .018 so I used both those feeler gauges for go-no go setting.

Ran into a problem with one adjuster that had some kind of thread locker or something in it, don't know why, these all have lock nuts. Anyway got that cleaned out and cleared up.

Put new grommets on the valve cover studs, new cork gasket in the valve cover. Cranked that down. Then I went and found a new small engine gas tank for testing the motor -- I didn't want to mount the tractor tank quite yet -- it makes access a lot harder and the valves are supposed to be readjusted again hot (and idling!) Looks like I'll need 3 hands for that -- one on a screw driver, one on the lock nut wrench and one holding the feeler gauge while getting burnt on the exhaust manifold  :scratch:

I mounted the small temporary tank with fiberglass strapping tape (the new bailing twine) added a new fuel filter to the line and added about a cup of gas, feeling a bit conservative. Poured water in the radiator to fill, and then tried to think of what else I should do, besides press the starter button.


« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 11:20:39 PM by vtsteam »
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline mattinker

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #116 on: May 29, 2014, 07:05:19 PM »
Andrew, yer gonna git yer wish tonight!  :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: Soon as I get a video all sorted out and uploaded on this slow connection.

Today I got the muffler and headpipe off the old manifold an put it on the new one, connected up the thermostat housing with a new gasket, reconnected the radiator and a new temperature gauge and a new oil gauge, and then spent a good long while adjusting the valves.

You do this by turning the crankshaft with a wrench and watching the valves -- the manual spells out which two should be open, to adjust a different pair, then turn crank and repeat for another pair, etc. four times. Spec said between .016 and .018 so I used both those feeler gauges for go-no go setting.

Ran into a problem with one adjuster that had some kind of thread locker or something in it, don't know why, these all have lock nuts. Anyway got that cleaned out and cleared up.

Put new grommets on the valve cover studs, new cork gasket in the valve cover. Cranked that down. Then I went and found a new small engine gas tank for testing the motor -- I didn't want to mount the tractor tank quite yet -- it makes access a lot harder and the valves are supposed to be readjusted again hot (and idling!) Looks like I'll need 3 hands for that -- one on a screw driver, one on the lock nut wrench and one holding the feeler gauge while getting burnt on the exhaust manifold  :scratch:

I mounted the small temporary tank with fiberglass strapping tape (the new bailing twine) added a new fuel filter to the line and added about a cup of gas, feeling a bit conservative. Poured water in the radiator to fill, and then tried to think of what else I should do, besides press the starter button.



Waiting with bated breath!!!
Regards, Matthew
« Last Edit: July 20, 2017, 11:21:12 PM by vtsteam »

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #117 on: May 29, 2014, 10:24:30 PM »
 I didn't want to mount the tractor tank quite yet -- it makes access a lot harder and the valves are supposed to be readjusted again hot (and idling!) Looks like I'll need 3 hands for that -- one on a screw driver, one on the lock nut wrench and one holding the feeler gauge while getting burnt on the exhaust manifold  :scratch:

Steve,I have built and serviced a good number of 4 cylinder pushrod motors and never heard of any procedure that requires pushrod tappets to be adjusted with the engine running,the normal method is the static one you have described where a pair are set whilst another corresponding pair are rocking at peak lift.(this paired sequence differs for engines with firing orders of 1342 and 1243)

 I really can't see how any form of accurate adjustment could possibly be achieved with the engine running.....OZ.  :scratch:
Helixes aren't always downward spirals,sometimes they're screwed up

Offline vtsteam

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #118 on: May 30, 2014, 12:59:20 AM »
Here is the video from today -- I hope I have the link right...



[embed=500,375]<!-- This version of the embed code is no longer supported. Learn more: https://vimeo.com/s/tnm --> <object width="500" height="375"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=96871217&amp;force_embed=1&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=1&amp;color=00adef&amp;fullscreen=1&amp;autoplay=0&amp;loop=0" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=96871217&amp;force_embed=1&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=1&amp;color=00adef&amp;fullscreen=1&amp;autoplay=0&amp;loop=0" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="500" height="375"></embed></object> <p><a href="">1954 Ford 850 First Start</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user9419463">vtdiy.</a> on <a href="https://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>[/embed]
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline awemawson

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #119 on: May 30, 2014, 02:09:30 AM »
No link showing for me  :scratch:

edit later: It now shows for me on my laptop - earlier I was looking on my iPhone (in bed drinking coffee !)
« Last Edit: May 30, 2014, 03:05:35 AM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #120 on: May 30, 2014, 02:20:24 AM »
The video plays perfectly for me, Andy!  :scratch:


Steve.
Just back from holiday. Catching up, on what I've missed...... I'm sitting here with a big silly grin for you!  :)

Blummin well done!  :clap: :clap: :clap:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline awemawson

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #121 on: May 30, 2014, 03:11:52 AM »
Superb Steve - I'm so glad it fixed the missfire - you'd have been well pissed off if it only ran on two cylinders  :wave:

Now take the head off again - skim another 50 thou off and go racing  :lol:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline RussellT

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #122 on: May 30, 2014, 04:57:01 AM »
Nice.

 :clap: :clap: :clap:

Well done. :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks:

Russell

Offline DavidA

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #123 on: May 30, 2014, 06:27:52 AM »
..I really can't see how any form of accurate adjustment could possibly be achieved with the engine running..


This used to be the method for adjusting the tappets on at least one type of Bedford engine way back in the 40-50s.

I never had to do it, but apparently the idea was to slacken off the lock nut then,  with the feeler guage inserted,  turn down the adjusting screw until the 'tapping' stopped. then tighten up the lock nut.
I assume that when you had done them all you stopped the engine and checked the tightness of the nuts.

Possibly that is why some one invented hydraulic adjusters.

Sounds very awkward.  but I am assured it works.

Dave.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 1954 Ford 850 Tractor w/blown Head Gasket (at the very least)
« Reply #124 on: May 30, 2014, 06:35:58 AM »
No matter how many times I've heard it,  that 'first time' sound of an engine I have re-built never fails to give me a warm glow and a very silly grin.

Nice job.

Dave :thumbup: