Author Topic: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !  (Read 19260 times)

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« on: July 14, 2014, 01:31:57 PM »
On my 1979 (new to me) Ford 4600 tractor, there is an annoying oil leak on the off side rear wheel - oil fairly pours out of the half-shaft oil seal.

Just a little thing - not much to it really - a £12 item
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2014, 01:36:26 PM »
So the obvious thing to do is change it. Well it's a bit more complicated than that  :bang:

The seal sits on the end of the axle 'trumpet', just behind the inner half shaft flange onto which the wheel mounts. The only way to remove the half shaft is to remove the axle trumpet from the central axle differential casting.

It's all a bit inaccessible  :bugeye:
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 02:07:16 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2014, 01:38:50 PM »
So the first thing to do it get the tractor up on my loading dock, far enough forwards and to one side so that when I eventually uncouple the trumpet, I can get the fork lift in close enough to take its not inconsiderable weight.

So here it is with the wheels chocked
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2014, 01:40:00 PM »
Then we need to loosen the wheel nuts that have probably been on since Adam was a lad. Torque amplifier needed here ! And also remove all the Three Point Linkage arms and rods as they get in the way
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 02:08:25 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2014, 01:42:01 PM »
So with the wheel nuts loosened but not removed, jack up the back end and pack it with strong packing, then remove the wheel
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2014, 01:47:56 PM »
At this stage I decided there was too much 'mud' around - well not actually mud - more cow poop ! It had obviously been on a dairy farm.

Time to break out the steam cleaner - just normal pressure washing wouldn't touch it!
« Last Edit: July 14, 2014, 04:25:16 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2014, 01:49:18 PM »
Came out far cleaner - not perfect but much better to work on
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2014, 01:53:59 PM »
Here is my Steam Cleaner. It's a Karcher 'MPDS' - it was made for the Military as a nuclear decontamination unit to decontaminate vehicles that had been subjected to battlefield radiation. Totally independent it has a diesel engine and diesel burner - will even suck it's water from a stream if needed. Awsome animal - it can generate super heated steam at up to 214 deg C but my lance and hoses aren't good for that - I limit it to 100 deg C
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2014, 02:03:01 PM »
So now to drain the oil and get on with the job!

It was at this stage that I realised that the drain plug was where my 'blocking up' was. Incidentally, blocking up like this in the centre is not very stable - it relies on the weight of the wheel that is still attached not to fall over - but it cannot be blocked up anywhere else without putting weight on the trumpet that is being removed  :bugeye:

OK a quick temporary re-jacking block moving and pick up hitch removal to get at the sump plug. B*****r to remove - ended up using an impact wrench - drained the vast amount of oil out - it's supposed to be something like 45 litres, I suppose I got of the order of 30 out - it had stopped leaking as the level had fallen to below the seal  :lol:

That's all I got done today - tomorrow I need to remove the various linkages for brakes and the differential lock, and chock up the cab so I can unbolt the trumpet housing.

These trumpets not only have the oil seal, and half shaft bearings, they also have 'wet' ie oil immersed brake disks, a sun and planet reduction gear set, and a dif lock mechanism - but that's all fun for tomorrow!
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline tom osselton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1256
  • Country: ca
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2014, 05:13:10 PM »
Years ago I had a leaking points seal on my Norton I tryed 2  times tearing it both time but you don't see that till it is back together :doh: then I read in a old Nicolson's book to use some paper oiled both sides wrap it on the shaft then slip the seal over it and it works like a hot dam!

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2014, 05:31:03 PM »
Nice tip Tom. I've always greased them to slip on more easily.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline mattinker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1316
  • Country: fr
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2014, 06:37:58 PM »
Were did you get you "Karcher"? It looks like a great machine!

Regards, Matthew

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2014, 02:20:50 AM »
eBay Matthew. Need you ask :lol:

They turn up occasionally
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Meldonmech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #13 on: July 15, 2014, 04:38:07 AM »
Andrew

              It must be nice to continually have all these varied and interesting challenges in your life, you lucky man.

                                                             Never be bored
                                                                                          Cheers David

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #14 on: July 15, 2014, 07:14:51 AM »
No time to be bored David  :lol:

So the weather smiled on me this morning despite the forecast. I started removing the differential lock, hand brake and foot brake linkages. Not too bad, a few seized pins needed the blow lamp to convince  them to come out, but out they came.

I thought it wise to check all the oil was out - it had ceased dripping last night so I'd put the plug back in - but this lot came out - just as well I checked  :thumbup:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #15 on: July 15, 2014, 07:18:36 AM »
Then while I was still able to have a jack under the end of the trumpet loosened all the bolts holding the cab support on, and the trumpet to the differential housing. Just as well really as some needed quite a bit of swinging on before they loosened.

Then I jacked up the cab so that its weight came off the trumpet / cab support tower and removed the cab support
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #16 on: July 15, 2014, 07:20:36 AM »
Now the serious stuff starts :ddb:

I removed all but the top two trumpet bolts and brought in the fork lift for a bit of moral support !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #17 on: July 15, 2014, 07:24:38 AM »
It wasn't possible to get a strop on the trumpet at a likely balance point - it was going to drop on the inner end, so I put a baulk of timber under it and crossed my fingers, took the strain on the forklift and removed the remaining two bolts.

Using the side shift on the fork lift I was able to withdraw the unit from the axle - the drive shaft protruded far more than I had expected but it came out ok in the end.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #18 on: July 15, 2014, 07:31:42 AM »
I had to take a break then as business phone calls got in the way.

I'll have to devise a better way to get it back in, as the fork lift wasn't sufficiently controlled. I've placed it on my pump up trolley, and I think this is what I'll use to re-install it. I'll need to make a wooden cradle to hold it level, and it'll take a bit of maneuvering as it has to come in from the rear to avoid the cab then go towards the centre to mate the bolts up. Lucky that I modified the trolley when I got it so that all its wheels swivel!

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6466
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #19 on: July 15, 2014, 08:40:57 AM »
Yikes, what a production! Learned something already today, about the oiled paper ring when installing seals. Replaced front bearings and seals on my '51 Deere M, but that was a piece of cake by comparison.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2014, 12:06:15 PM »
Well if it was easy it wouldn't be a challenge Steve  :ddb:

This afternoon I started dismantling the trumpet starting with the dif lock actuator then the brake assembly and actuator
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #21 on: July 15, 2014, 12:09:09 PM »
Then I took out the brake outer housing which allowed the intermediate shaft and planet gears to come out
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #22 on: July 15, 2014, 12:11:14 PM »
So now I could unscrew the bolt that retains the half shaft - well I could if I could stop the half shaft turning  :bang:

I resorted to desperate measures and tangled the wheel studs in the handle of the trolley - it worked eventually
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #23 on: July 15, 2014, 12:14:35 PM »
So all that now retained the half shaft in the housing was the oil seal that this effort was all about, but it wasn't giving in easily. I eventually had to carefully cut through the seal housing with a cold chisel and saw and bully it into submission.

This allowed the shaft to come out. Fortunately the bearings are in good condition as is the seal face on the shaft.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8967
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: Only a Little-Oil-Seal !
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2014, 12:15:55 PM »
So all that remains to be removed is the outer bearing inner race - need to make an extended puller but that's a job for tomorrow
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex