Author Topic: Bally Power Cuts !  (Read 21506 times)

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #25 on: December 02, 2014, 08:39:39 AM »
That's a fine genset, Andrew. Very envious!  :beer:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline awemawson

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2014, 11:39:51 AM »
It ain't arrived yet Steve - it may be a clunker  :bugeye: But I sincerely hope not  :scratch:

But it's exactly what I was looking for (if it works). I have a friend who went 'off grid' for a couple of years and he must have brought his 'far east genny' to me at least half a dozen times for bits that had broken, stuck, fatigued or just died. Horrid design and reminiscent of your 'carb and tank built into dash board' issue !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2014, 02:30:30 PM »
Well Andrew I have to admit that I have a far east genny, but it's a Lister clone of 600 lbs of cast iron, producing 6 hp @ 600 rpm.

Funny note apropos this thread, the nigh beforeThanksgiving (Nov 28) we got 12" of snow -- heavy wet stuff that stuck to trees. And the ground was still soft from rain and not frozen. So it ripped out trees by the root balls along the roads and we had 4 power outtages in a row as stuff came down on the wires throughout the area.

I have got my Lister type gen all ready except for a starter motor and a line to the house transfer switch. It is still hand cranked, but that's really difficult to manage with 30 weight oil and low temps.

So I went to my other modern 3600 RPM racketmaker gasoline generator (Generac brand) which was already hooked to the transfer switch, under a little roof next to the house. Gave it 3 pulls and the starter cord broke and I fell over backwards into the snow cursing it worse than the snow-blower with the bad tank. Of course it was dark outside, and I wasn't about to try to fix a recoil starter under those conditions by flashlight (electric torch) -- I would certainly drop nuts, dogs, springs, whatever into the snow. Also couldn't do it inside since the lights were out, of course! So I just gave up. We lit candles, read, and went to bed early. Not such a bad thing.

I do think however that there should be a reverse-Nobel prize. And it should be given to the inventor of the recoil starter. What was wrong with the prior system of a pulley with a notch in it that you wrapped a rope around? Any rope.

Rope broke, so what?

Repairing a recoil starter is one of the jobs I least look forward to....... and in the dark outside in winter during an emergency (sort of)?
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline awemawson

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2014, 03:16:58 PM »
I have a 4kW Briggs and Stratton (spell check wants to substitute CASTRATION  for stratton :lol:)  engined generator that I use as standby at the moment, and it's recoil starter only recoils when the engine is running. So if it doesn't start first pull you are knackered. It is possible to ease it back a tiny bit at a time by sticking fingers into it, but not easy.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2014, 04:21:06 PM »
I fixed the recoil yesterday. Took t off the motor.  It was all plastic, and at first I couldn't figure out how to get it apart, with no obvious screws or fasteners. Then I realized the front metal badge was only a peel off label. But underneath, still no bolts or screws. Just a black plastic circle with a white nylon square shaft protruding though it. Finlly guessing the nylon might be a sort of peg or wedge, I threw cautions to the winds and put pliers on it squeezed and pulled. Sure enough, it was a double wedge locking device, and the squeeze action compressed the barbed legs and it came out.

I didn't have enough dacron braided line to replace the starter rope (and it is thin stuff on these recoil starters), I decided to just shorten it 6". To do this you have to thread it through the guide ferrule first before the rubber handle, and tie a stopper knot. Very difficult as the cord had to make a right angle turn in the rubber handle, and it wanted to fray instead of slide around the bend. I heated the rope end up with a match to try to keep it whipped together.
 
Finally getting that done with the help of tweezers, needle nose pliers, and foul language, I tied the knot and pulled it tight in the handle. Ready to reassemble. Parts laid out on the table. There were two dogs and springs, but no shafts for the dogs. They just fit in recesses in the plastic and pivoted in that.

I tried putting it back together, but it wouldn't all fit, because the spring wouldn't hook onto the proper mating part. The end had a flattened loop that was supposed to mate with a plastic lip. I re-bent the loop to make it easier, and managed to stuff the whole clam back into its shell. But the spring was no longer wound so the recoil wouldn't work. I'd  hoped that there was some kind of retainer on the bulk of the spring, keeping tension in. Because I'd never heard it go "Sproing" when I took it apart. But no such luck. It was unwound fully.

So I realized I was going to have to manually wind the whole thing before putting the recoil mechanism back in its cage. And to do that, I realized I'd have to remove the rubber handle from the cord again, wind the spring, wind the cord on the pulley, insert the unit in the cage, and then somehow fish the line out of the ferrule, and reinstall the rubber handle.

So 20 minutes later, mainly due to the restringing operations, I had it back together, had reinstalled the plastic wedge (which was harder than removing it) and was pulling on the cord to test the spring action, when one of the dogs popped out and landed on the floor. I apparently hadn't exactly lined everything up when reinstalling the wedge, and the dog had space to come loose. Which was why the wedge was so hard to press in place.

Finally, I managed to get the whole infernal machine (with label) back together again, and glumly returned to the generator to bolt it in place. I of course dropped one of the attachment bolts into the snow. Right next to the piece of plastic I put down to catch anything I dropped.

I was able to dig it out in a few minutes with raw fingers, and got the starter back on the machine. To give it a test, I flipped the choke on, opened the tank valve, switched the generator to run, and gave it a pull. It started instantly. Which so surprised me that I slipped backwards into the snow again. Or perhaps I just pulled too hard while off balance.

Of course the power had long since been restored...... :lol:



I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline NormanV

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2014, 04:52:20 PM »
Steve  you said
"I do think however that there should be a reverse-Nobel prize"
There is the "Ignobel Prize" I think that covers all your needs.
 

Offline awemawson

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2014, 05:20:54 PM »
Steve, you definitely need to get an electric starter fitted ASAP !!!
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline NormanV

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2014, 05:25:47 PM »
Snow? In December, I was not expecting it here until February!

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2014, 06:45:31 PM »
It snowed November 27 Norman, and in the last couple of days melted 10 of the 12 inches that were put down then. But my wife just let the dog in a minute ago (just after dinner here) and his fur was covered with snow after 5 minutes out there. So I guess it's coming back!

 In the last two weeks we have had temps ranging from 17C to -12C -- in fact those two temps were only one day apart. The weather has gone completely wopperjawed here. Don't know whether to wear shorts or a snowmobile suit!

Can't complain about snow after what happened to Buffalo though. It was the same numbers, but inches here compared to feet there
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2014, 04:02:07 AM »
I stubeld upon this one, while searching aux. tank with filtering and gravity feed for my portable diesel generator project, but it might be usefull here.

http://www.hardydiesel.com/acc/exhaust-kit.html

Bottom of the page is an illustration that might interest on exhaust and cooling air routting.

Pekka


Offline awemawson

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #35 on: December 18, 2014, 07:47:47 AM »
So at long last the 1/4" BSP 'banjo bolt' and 9 mm 'banjo' arrived in the post this morning so I've been able to rig up a temporary fuel tank (5 litre bottle!) and do some load testing.

First job was to crimp up the fuel line from the filter to the newly installed fuel lift pump. Easy peasy. Then to bleed air out of the system. I powered up the pump, slackened off the banjo and waited  -  and waited - - and waited - pump clacking away but no fuel  :scratch:

Initially I thought that perhaps the pump needed priming, this would have been "BAD" as it's supposed to lift a minimum of 12" dry and I need it to. Anyway I pulled the pipe out of the 5 litre bottle, put a funnel in the end and 'primed' it.

Hang on, why are bubbles coming up into the funnel - surely I can't have put it in the wrong way round, it's very clearly labelled with arrows on both side saying 'fuel flow'  :bang:

Then - well no I've put it in as labelled - surely they can't have labelled it wrongly  :scratch: Oh yes they can  :lol: :lol:

The pump is a Chinese clone of a "Facet Cube" electronic pump. It has a bent up clamp that is also the mounting and this carries the stamped flow direction markings. Un-crimped the fuel lines, bent up it's tabs, assembled it the right way round and reversed the pipes - now I stink of diesel - but it works  :ddb:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #36 on: December 18, 2014, 07:54:07 AM »
So on to the load test. It took a bit of cranking to get air out of the system and firing on all three cylinders, but we got there in the end.

Load consisted of a 4kW fan heater that's supposed to be wall mounted and a pair of 500 watt halogen lights - only 5kW and we should be able to push 15 kW at a squeeze, but it's all that I had to hand.

Took it no problems
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

lordedmond

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #37 on: December 18, 2014, 08:08:26 AM »
Andrew
Better get another oil pump , fit a hi/low switch to the sump hook up the system with new pump the right way round this time to a lube oil tank

That's what we did to the off site standby sets , but we did have remote monitoring . The main Gennys had to be checked 4 Hourly as they drank sump oil this was no problem as we were on site 365/24/7 anyway
Maybe that's why the had 96 gall sumps  :Doh: they were for info V16 96 litre 1000hp units by clatterpiller we had five and a V12 unit each rated and tested at 750 kW at 1000 rpm

There was a calculation for fuel used and the amount of lube oil that should be used , but they were beautiful inside all rods were polished not what you would expect

As to fuel how about 50 gall per hour of load each  :doh:

Stuart

Offline awemawson

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #38 on: December 18, 2014, 08:20:40 AM »
Stuart, Lister used to sell a remote oil tank and gubbins for this engine for long running - it shouldn't be an issue for the use this will see.

Talking of oil, I'm pleased to report that it shows good oil pressure when running.

When it arrived there was a fairly basic battery charger bolted into the box on top of the alternator, wired so that the generator charged its battery when running. Not a lot of use for a stand by generator as the battery needs maintaining over possibly many months of idleness before use. So I've removed it and intend to rig up a battery maintainer powered off the house ring main. When on normal mains, it'll charge, when the lights go out and the generator starts and powers up the house, it'll still charge  :thumbup:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #39 on: December 18, 2014, 08:28:57 AM »
Love that green! Nice genset!!!  :drool:

I imagine your Lister is a lot smoother, too, than my one lunger. I had to put down serious damping, and it's very inadvisable to start the old singles just bolted to the steel bearers. They have a habit of chasing you around the room with 200 lbs of spinning flywheels....
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline awemawson

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #40 on: December 18, 2014, 08:43:27 AM »
Apologies, Andrew I hit the modify button instead of the quote button and overwrote your post before I realized it :palm:

Second time I've done this -- I think I ought to turn in my moderator badge...  (Steve)

 :doh:


ps. I think you just mentioned low vibration on the Lister, and the fact that the shade of green was not the proper one.......sorry!
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 09:31:38 AM by vtsteam »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #41 on: December 18, 2014, 09:08:16 AM »
I figured a three cyl would be nice that way. What is the RPM, running, Andrew?

I think mine would be useful in the Spring if I was back into fishing. At 600 RPM, and with it's massive power stroke and weight, it shakes the earth all around. It's not unpleasant -- in fact we all think the sound running IS pleasant. Just a thump thump thump.

But my thought is, it ought to drive the nightcrawlers (earthworms) nuts on a spring evening when they're near the surface and easy to collect. I bet there would be hundreds of them out ready for the picking up with a little run of my genset!!

There ought to be a Roald Dahl story about that!

ps. We Yanks aren't up on our greens like you guys are -- much to our detriment, ornamentally.  I just figure if a motor is green it's a Lister  :palm:

Always a pleasure to see the range of door colo(u)rs you have, and locomotives not just colored black.... :beer:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline awemawson

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #42 on: December 18, 2014, 11:27:13 AM »
OK walk all over my posts - see if I care , I'll go in the garden and eat worms :clap: :clap:

Seriously - no problems Steve, it was probably rubbish anyway  :ddb:

I think I was rambling on about not being sure that its' actually the right colour - supposed to be "Brunswick Green" I believe, but I thought that that was darker, rather like "British Racing Green"

It's nominal speed is 1500 rpm
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #43 on: December 18, 2014, 11:45:34 AM »
1500 must sound okay Andrew -- not like my little 3600 RPM gasoline racket-maker. I still haven't hooked the big Listeroid to the house transfer switch, so the racket-maker still gets used in power-outs. After the tiny shop is finished, I'm going to change that and get the Listeroid connected. Not sure what shade of green mine is!
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline awemawson

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #44 on: December 18, 2014, 11:56:03 AM »
I'm surprised it's actually not too bad noise wise, especially considering so far I've just screwed the 'pepper pot' exhaust terminal into the exhaust manifold and left off the silencer ! Biggest noise at the moment comes from the rattling of the lid of the electrical box as it's just laying on not screwed down yet.

Putting 5kW load on made a just perceptible change in the engine note. I think it's a 1900 cc engine rate 18 BHP / 13.4 kW continuous with a 10% overload margin (just looked it up!)
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2014, 03:01:23 PM »
I'm sure 5 kW was easily handled with 18 bhp!

The figures for mine are 1400 cc (single) 6 hp and about 3.5 kW (though I have a 5kW gen head).
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #46 on: December 19, 2014, 02:59:24 AM »
My generator is:
http://www.pramac.com/pages/Product_detail_fr/513?ixRecordTableName=vw_p_product_sheet&root_node=2&lang=en_GB&id_market=176&id_product=1026&ixRecordId=1026

Yanmar L70N engine and it is nominally 6,7 hp at 3600 rpm, but continuous power at 3000 rpm is 4,1 kW making it fair close match to nominally 3,9 kVA generator and continuous power of 3kW of electics.

Pekka

Offline Joules

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Re: Bally Power Cuts !
« Reply #47 on: December 19, 2014, 07:27:19 AM »
Our Generator is a Kipor 6700TA

http://www.kiporuk.co.uk/diesel-generator/kde-6700ta-400-64-67.php

Clone Yanmar diesel engine in it.  The thing can run our IT systems if we loose power, we also have a small battery bank that is solar charged and can be kept topped up with the generator in the winter if we don't get sun.  Yep even in the UK on a sunny winters day we get enough juice to fully charge our battery bank. 4.8kw of which 2.4kw is our allowed drain doesn't sound much, but it gives us time to start the generator should we have a power cut without the computers all going down, also covers the house lights and network/telephone gear.
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