Where abouts can you buy cheap thin aluminium sheet?

[S. Heslop]

I need about 1000x1000mm of aluminium sheet, about 0.5mm thick-ish. Something I can roll into a cone to make one of those famous cyclone dust collectors with.

Went to Wickes today and didn't have any luck. The usual metal merchants I go to sell it for ~£40 for that amount, which seems like alot of money. In videos people seem to be using a sort with paint on one side, and one guy called it 'flashing'. The only aluminum flashing i've found is narrow stuff.

I could just go with plastic though, but i'd rather get something that holds its shape easier.

[awemawson]

If you look on youtube there's a bloke who's made a cyclone dust separator using a large traffic cone.

May involve a bit of nefarious night time activity but there's the cone already made for you 

[S. Heslop]

If you look on youtube there's a bloke who's made a cyclone dust separator using a large traffic cone.

May involve a bit of nefarious night time activity but there's the cone already made for you 

Funnily enough, i'm copying that guy's second cyclone, since he lists the dimensions. http://woodgears.ca/reader/marius/dust_collector.html Although I'm using a bouncy castle blower I got at a boot sale.

I really want to build a gigantic dust collector and put a pipe in along the wall of the garage. I was using a small numatic vacuum cleaner for a while, but it's been overheating lately. It's also inadequate for drawing chips out of a planer/thicknesser I bought a while back (that's terrible! I'll probably have to fiddle with it a bit to get it working well). But most of all I just hated moving it about since it usually involved balancing it on top of the assorted rubble that accumulates on my bench tops.


Edit: Actually, looking at it. I guess that guy's traffic cone cyclone isn't THE traffic cone cyclone. What I find odd is all the videos on people making cyclones to hoop up in line with their big expensive industrial dust collectors. It seems kind of pointless if you've already got a working dust collector to add a second stage to it.

[awemawson]

Simon I also aspire to a central duct in my wood work shop and some time ago bought various shut off gates, and one of those superb floor openings that you sweep your shavings into.

I have three (!!!!!) suitable large bore extractors, one came with my woodturning lathe, one I bought for my rip saw / planer combination woodworker, and the third I got as it is wall mounting and I intended it as a central system to save floor space. However as usual other tasks took over, and I've plumbed the floor standing one directly to the Dominion Woodworker as I found I was using it 'just for little jobs' with no extraction and it was getting packed tight with dust.

The advantage of the cyclone it that most of the collected debris (some claim 98%) is dropped into the collector without clogging up a filter, hence the air flow remains high for much longer

I was planning to use 110 mm soil pipe as the spine with drops to each machine isolated by a shut off valve

Really I need to decide which extractor I'm going to use permanently and shove the other two on ebay to free up space in my storage container

[Pete W.]

SNIP

Really I need to decide which extractor I'm going to use permanently and shove the other two on ebay to free up space in my storage container

Hi there, Andrew,

Did you receive eBay's revised Ts & Cs today? 

[awemawson]

Yes but I deleted them unread !

[Bluechip]

I need about 1000x1000mm of aluminium sheet, about 0.5mm thick-ish. Something I can roll into a cone to make one of those famous cyclone dust collectors with.

Went to Wickes today and didn't have any luck. The usual metal merchants I go to sell it for ~£40 for that amount, which seems like alot of money. In videos people seem to be using a sort with paint on one side, and one guy called it 'flashing'. The only aluminum flashing i've found is narrow stuff.

I could just go with plastic though, but i'd rather get something that holds its shape easier.

Aluminium Warehouse charge some £14 odd for 1m x 1m x 0.9 mm + VAT and shipping [ lots of pennies  ]

http://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/sheet_calc.php

Dave

[DavidA]

How about a scrap yard ?  A bit off an old caravan perhaps.

Dave.

[S. Heslop]

I need about 1000x1000mm of aluminium sheet, about 0.5mm thick-ish. Something I can roll into a cone to make one of those famous cyclone dust collectors with.

Went to Wickes today and didn't have any luck. The usual metal merchants I go to sell it for ~£40 for that amount, which seems like alot of money. In videos people seem to be using a sort with paint on one side, and one guy called it 'flashing'. The only aluminum flashing i've found is narrow stuff.

I could just go with plastic though, but i'd rather get something that holds its shape easier.

Aluminium Warehouse charge some £14 odd for 1m x 1m x 0.9 mm + VAT and shipping [ lots of pennies  ]

http://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/sheet_calc.php

Dave

Seems like a good price, but might be a bit too thick to easily form. I'd want to get as smooth a cone as possible for a cyclone.

I might be wrong but i'm assuming that what makes 'real' aluminium sheet expensive is that it's relatively accurate. The stuff with paint on the side probably isn't, since it's just for rooves.

[S. Heslop]

How about a scrap yard ?  A bit off an old caravan perhaps.

Dave.

Don't know any friendly scrap merchants in the area, unfortunately.

[awemawson]

Lithographic printers use thin etched sheet alloy nowadays wrapped round drums - when they've finished their run the 'plates' are scrapped. They will have negatives of the print on one side but that doesn't matter for your purposes. News paper printers do the same.

Scan Yellow Pages, get on your bike (!), and chat up who ever you find in their loading bay, don't waste time at the front door!

[Pete.]

Yes but I deleted them unread !

As did I. What's the significance PeteW?

[S. Heslop]

Life would be easier if I had a car...

I think I might go with plastic. I kinda like the idea of making the cyclone clear so I could see into it (until it gets scratched up by the dust!). Another advantage would be be in able to just flex it into a smooth curve and not worry about kinking it. There's a plastic supplier in the Team Valley that i've been wanting to take a look at for a while. I might even be able to get the bus there, for a small fortune. And then experience the joy of wrestling a meter square of plastic back home on crowded public transport. My only worry with plastic is that it might not hold it's shape too well, and crumple inwards from the low pressure.

[awemawson]

The traffic cone chap on ebay is a different one to the one I found - it was far more crudely put together than the one you posted. However the point of this post is: he had to support the outside of the cone to prevent collapse with plywood. Traffic cones (or at least the few I have on the farm) are quite thick and heavy plastic

[S. Heslop]

That sounds troublesome. I was hoping this'd be a quick project so I could move on to stuff I want to do, but I might be in it for the long haul. Nothing is ever simple!

Thinking about it though, I could probably make a bunch of MDF rings all from one disc, and use them to support the cone.

Not sure what plastic I should be asking for though. I know next to nothing about plastics. I suppose I could ask the people working at the plastic suppliers, even if i'd sound like an idiot saying 'hello, i'm looking for some stiff yet flexible clear plastic that isn't too expensive!'.

[Bluechip]

Stiff, clear and inexpensive ?? You'll have to wait until it's been invented ... 

Just how perfectly conical does this wotsit need to be ?

If you have accepted reinforcing rings out side the thing maybe consider making it from tapered strips ??

Mons Meg seemed to work OK as did Dulle Griet and a lot of other bangy things ...

PVC is cheap, easily bent/worked but none too transparent, and adhesive is cheap [ loads of PVC weld jollop knocking about ] and if you really need to see what's going on, stick an acrylic window in it. Nice curtains too if you want ...

Dave

[S. Heslop]

Stiff, clear and inexpensive ?? You'll have to wait until it's been invented ... 

Just how perfectly conical does this wotsit need to be ?

If you have accepted reinforcing rings out side the thing maybe consider making it from tapered strips ??

Mons Meg seemed to work OK as did Dulle Griet and a lot of other bangy things ...

PVC is cheap, easily bent/worked but none too transparent, and adhesive is cheap [ loads of PVC weld jollop knocking about ] and if you really need to see what's going on, stick an acrylic window in it. Nice curtains too if you want ...

Dave

Alot of the first dust cyclones I ever saw were made from tapered wooden strips. It seems labor intensive though, i'd need to make some kind of tapering jig for the tablesaw most likely... I suppose they wouldn't have to be too accurate if I can plug the gaps with car body filler.

PVC though, I might go with that and use some hard see-through acrylic I already have for the very top of the thing, so I can still peep inside from above. I want to stick to just curling a bit of plastic up since it seems like the easiest thing to do. I might also buy a bit extra since it seems like i'm always needing stiff-but-flexible plastic sheet, and i'm running out of expensive A3 art portfolios to tear apart.

I did once see one cyclone made in a similar way to those cannons, where the guy had cut a whole bunkle of MDF rings. It seemed like the most difficult way you could possibly build a cone!

[vtsteam]

What about galvanized steel at a sheet metal shop? Most cyclone collectors are made from that rather than aluminum.

I often use stovepipes for small quantities of sheet steel -- they often come dis-assembled in flat form. the seam can be locked together or unlocked. You can also put two together to make a wider piece, albeit wth a seam.

[S. Heslop]

What about galvanized steel at a sheet metal shop? Most cyclone collectors are made from that rather than aluminum.

I often use stovepipes for small quantities of sheet steel -- they often come dis-assembled in flat form. the seam can be locked together or unlocked. You can also put two together to make a wider piece, albeit wth a seam.

I was hoping thin aluminium might be flexible enough that if bent into a cone and riveted in place, it'd form a relatively smooth cone by itself. In my experience even thin steel tends to not want to bend all at once, and getting a smooth cone by bending it bit by bit would be a hell of a job.

[vtsteam]

Simon, I've bent cones out of thin galvanized and it's quite easily flexible and stays at least as straight as aluminum.

I've even flame welded butt seams together of the non galvanized stuff into cones back in my pulsejet days. But pop rivets work fine.

I haven't experienced it denting when rolling into a cone by hand. You need the right gauge though -- somewhere between easy to dent and hard to roll -- but that's a pretty big range and common, since that's also the size needed for making ducting, and stovepipe, and , well, cyclones.

I bet if you visit a sheet metal/ductwork shop, and tell them you want to make it yourself just for the experience of it, they'll sell you the material, and give you helpful advice on rolling it.

[vtsteam]

Bring your helmet along, and I'll bet they will start asking YOU for pointers in sheet metal work!

[S. Heslop]

Don't think i'd have the guts to go to a shop and ask that! I might ask the guys across the street though, who repair old cars. They probably know a bit about working with thin steel, and i've been wanting an excuse to get nosy at their setup for a while.

[S. Heslop]

I went to the plastic shop and didn't like the look or price of the polycarbonate. The guy didn't think PVC would bend to 150mm easily. Polycarb bent easily but it looked like it'd be too floppy to hold its structure at the fat end of the cone.

It was only £20 for a sheet but at that price I think i'll order some aluminium instead.

[Meldonmech]

             Simon, how about the sides of a domestic appliance, fridge, washing machine, cooker etc.  They are easily removable
bend nicely, and are already painted.

                                                                Cheers David

[S. Heslop]

             Simon, how about the sides of a domestic appliance, fridge, washing machine, cooker etc.  They are easily removable
bend nicely, and are already painted.

                                                                Cheers David

Might not be big enough, but I could do it in two halves. We're about to get rid of a second fridge we don't really need so much, so I suppose I'll have a look at the sides. But in my experience they tend to stamp them to give them a bit of rigidity.

[Pete W.]

Hi there, Simon,

Why not 'borrow' a traffic cone and use it as a temporary core (maybe borrow a term from sculpture and call it an 'armature') while you lay up a cone in fibreglass over it?  The fibreglass cone should be plenty stiff if you lay up enough thickness.

I think the sculpture term is 'armature' though that might not apply if you eventually remove it?

Structural fibreglass (aka 'GRP') requires freedom from included air bubbles, complete wetting of the glass fibre by the resin and the correct ratio of resin to glass but your application probably isn't so demanding.

Forgive me if you're experienced in GRP - I don't intend to try to 'teach Grannie how to suck eggs'!! 

I could write much more but I'll leave it at that for this post and await your response. 

[S. Heslop]

Hi there, Simon,

Why not 'borrow' a traffic cone and use it as a temporary core (maybe borrow a term from sculpture and call it an 'armature') while you lay up a cone in fibreglass over it?  The fibreglass cone should be plenty stiff if you lay up enough thickness.

I think the sculpture term is 'armature' though that might not apply if you eventually remove it?

Structural fibreglass (aka 'GRP') requires freedom from included air bubbles, complete wetting of the glass fibre by the resin and the correct ratio of resin to glass but your application probably isn't so demanding.

Forgive me if you're experienced in GRP - I don't intend to try to 'teach Grannie how to suck eggs'!! 

I could write much more but I'll leave it at that for this post and await your response.

I don't know the first thing about fiberglass, but i'd like to hear more! I did once use the resin to waterproof a model boat when I was 12 or something, following a guy's advise. It was a nice idea except I couldn't get paint to stick to it.

Sounds like a bit much for this project though. At the minute i'm just working up the courage to order some aluminium. I hate spending money!

[S. Heslop]

I'm having doubts as to what gauge i'd need to buy though. 1mm aluminium seems like it might be too thick. Looking at galvanized sheet steel, it's alot cheaper too so I might go with that.

I'd like to buy it in person for this reason, but with no car I'm really limited to ordering online! I suppose I could also try phoning the steel stockists I usually go to and asking if they have any thin galv sheet.


Edit: Also, sorry about coming across as so indecisive, but i've really got very little money left after finishing university.

[vtsteam]

Simon, FYI I bend round stuff like that out of 24 ga. galvanized steel. I believe that works out to about .6mm.

[S. Heslop]

Simon, FYI I bend round stuff like that out of 24 ga. galvanized steel. I believe that works out to about .6mm.

Excellent! I guess i'll order some tomorrow.

Found a website through google searching for 'galvanized sheet steel UK', and was looking at the delivery charges. "Remember you can collect for FREE from our premises in Tyne andWear. Your order is likely to be available on the second working day after being placed. Please confirm before coming to see us." What a coincidence! It's just over the river too, near where Doubleboost lives.

[vtsteam]

Suggestion -- get yourself a length of pipe about 35 to 50 mm dia. and drill through for bolts at both ends. Attach to the edge of your workbench and space it with a washer out so you can insert your cone blank between the bench and pipe.

Then you can pull on the sheet to bend a small amount gradually lowering it into your bending vise as you do successive pulls. You can also tap with a hammer to do the tight end of the cone if needed. To get even bending, draw radial guide lines on the cone blank, because one end needs to be bent faster than the other. Don't try to bend all in one go, do a few passes through your bending vise to keep it even and avoid hard spots.

The ideal simple sheet metal setup (if you have  wooden benchtop like me) is to let a piece of heavy angle iron into the edge of the benchtop, so you have a sharp corner of steel there. Drill and tap it to accept bolts at convenient spaces and make matching clearance holes in another similar loose piece of angle iron, so they can be bolted together, like a very wide Tee shaped vise. That will work to make sharp bends in sheet metal. Substitute your pipe with drilled holes to make round bends.

You can also use your pipe as a long anvil if you hang one end from a U shaped strap on the bench or wall, and support the other end in a temporary post. You might need a little hammering of your cone blank after curving with the bending vise to get a smooth bend in the start and finish edges, rather than a flat spot.

[dsquire]

Steve

That is a great idea, the pipe in the vise. With a carefull eye and a skill full hand on the hammer you could have most any size cone you want.   

Thanks for that one Steve.

Cheers 

Don

[S. Heslop]

I did something that in the past to make my sheet metal forge (even got a video of it. My earlier videos send me to sleep...). I think you mean pulling it through all at once though, kinda like how you curl paper strips up?

[vtsteam]

Nope, Simon, I do mean making a small bend at a time and shifting it and making another. It isn't a slip roll (bending rolls). The pipe is stationary, not rotary and you don't slide the blank over it while applying bending pressure. Think of it as one jaw of a vise, and your workbench top edge as the other.  The bolts go into the pipe crosswise to attach to the bench top -- not axially like a roller.

While it sounds like doing it that way would create a faceted bend -- or series of bends -- it is actually surprising how smooth you can make it. Just don't try to bend too much at once. I like to move the metal back and forth -- kind of a wiggle, feeling for the amount of bend.

I don't know your cone layout and how small the small end is -- I assume it is truncated with a pipe at the bottom and an unloading hatch of some sort. But anyway, the small end might require some light hammering (just tapping a tiny amount forward of the pipe to blank edge) to get it to bend -- all depends on the feel. You'll know when you do it.

[caskwith]

Are you making this as a project (ie the making is part of the fun) or are you just wanting a cyclone for purely practical purposes?

If it's the latter I can heartily recommend Cyclone Central, I have 2 and they are brilliant and there is still some assembly to enjoy in the process but you know the end product will be good and not a waste of time and money.

[S. Heslop]

Are you making this as a project (ie the making is part of the fun) or are you just wanting a cyclone for purely practical purposes?

If it's the latter I can heartily recommend Cyclone Central, I have 2 and they are brilliant and there is still some assembly to enjoy in the process but you know the end product will be good and not a waste of time and money.

£110 looks like a serious waste of time and especially money for some bits of plastic sheet you assemble yourself. At less than £10 for a sheet of steel (or £25 for polycarb), with the only extra labour being marking and cutting it out (which is no problem with just tin snips on metal that thin), you're saving £100. You'd think they'd at least assemble the cone for you at that price.

Interesting that they seem to make it from polycarbonate though. Although it looks like they also sell a pressure valve to prevent the cone from collapsing if your hoses get clogged.

[S. Heslop]

Been a little busy with other stuff but i've finished the sheet metal part now.



Was a real wrestle getting that cone together. I'd also chosen 4.8mm pop rivets thinking 'bigger is better!' but I had a hard time setting those even with both hands. My fingers are killing!

I'm pleased the cone ended up the right size. I couldn't try testing the fit before drilling holes (I tried but it was too much to juggle), so I just had to have faith in my measurements.


Really I should've just used screws though. I think the only real reason to use pop rivets is when you don't have access to the other side of a hole.

[vtsteam]

Looks good Simon. From here it looks like you went with aluminum.

[S. Heslop]

Looks good Simon. From here it looks like you went with aluminum.

It's 0.5mm galvanized steel. It had exactly the kinds of properties I was after, possible to flex into a cone but not too thin it might buckle.

There's still a few more things to do to complete the collector, of course. But there's already a million videos and articles online about building the things so there's really no point in keeping a log of it.

But yeah, thanks for the help.

[vtsteam]

Well, it's always nice to see your work, even if others have done something similar. 

[S. Heslop]

I was tempted to make a video of it, but I don't like the idea of making videos of things when there's already enough of them out there. Although I was tempted to do it and tag on a review for a game i've been playing lately, Dust Force, about sweeping up dust. Don't play games much these days, but tried it on a recommendation. Thought it was a funny coincidence but maybe not enough to make a video about.

A woodworking guy i'm subscribed to on youtube, Pocket83, recently started making videogame videos and he lost 100 subscribers overnight. Another woodworking guy, Steve Ramsey, occasionally makes a goofy (but still woodworking themed) video for special occasions, and he gets alot of negative feedback from them. I think it's kinda funny how that happens. I guess people like consistency!

This dust collector has become more of a project than I expected though, although that happens with most things. Still got a few more things to go after this before I can start making banjos too.

[micktoon]

Hi Simon , looks like its turned out a nice cone, it will be interesting to see how well it works, I could do with making something like this myself really so watching with interest   
 As Steve says always nice to see how people do things even if otheres have done it before as we all have different tools and ideas once we start to get into a project so there is always something to be learnt 

 Cheers Mick

[caskwith]

Are you making this as a project (ie the making is part of the fun) or are you just wanting a cyclone for purely practical purposes?

If it's the latter I can heartily recommend Cyclone Central, I have 2 and they are brilliant and there is still some assembly to enjoy in the process but you know the end product will be good and not a waste of time and money.

£110 looks like a serious waste of time and especially money for some bits of plastic sheet you assemble yourself. At less than £10 for a sheet of steel (or £25 for polycarb), with the only extra labour being marking and cutting it out (which is no problem with just tin snips on metal that thin), you're saving £100. You'd think they'd at least assemble the cone for you at that price.

Interesting that they seem to make it from polycarbonate though. Although it looks like they also sell a pressure valve to prevent the cone from collapsing if your hoses get clogged.

Well all the parts are CNC cut so there was no messing around marking out my own shapes, the fit was very precise and discounting glue drying time (glue was included as well, and that is the best part of a tenner) I had it all assembled in about 10-15 mins. I looked into building my own, I tend to work on a basis of about £20 an hour when it comes to shop projects and I don't reckon I could have sourced materials and built something that good in under 4 hours so I was happy. YMMV of course but I thought I would throw the idea out there, guess it all depends what you think your time/labour is worth.

[ken572]

Hello caskwith

Look in your directory for Copper or Chrome plated printing plates
from a printing house. In the late 1980's they were using plate's
up to 60" x 78" for the larger printing presses. When the printing
order is done they scrap the plates.Thicknesses ranged from .015",
 .020", .025" and  sometimes .030" Thick. Price could range from
FREE thru Scrap rate per lb.

Ken.