MadModder
Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: krv3000 on June 19, 2016, 04:55:05 PM
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hi all not posted much as I ant bin up to out but john got a X.Y table of a chap sos john did give me your name but I have forgotten it so back to the plot went looking on the bay and came a cross a emcomat 7 milling head all the way dawn the other end of the country I won the bid so me and me friend David went to pick it up set off at 6 in the morning got back 6 at night any way I need to make a base plat a bit like a angel bracket to put the two together right sum pics
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Hey, I have exactly the same parts. The Emco is bolted to the bed of my Denford Synchro and the x,y table is still in the box, unused since the day I bought it about five years ago.
I was considering doing what you have done, but never got around to it as it seemed a lot of work as I could just use the lathe cross slide. However tonight I was looking at the lathe set up and thinking that the traverses were rather limited.
Now I need to do the same as you.
Dave.
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Hi Bob , looks good so far , looking forward to seeing the project progress , cheers Mick
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Very nice start KRV3000. Its to bad that pond is so wide and expensive to ship across, have a 20 X20 X 1" alloy aluminum plate in the shop just waiting for a project.
Cheers
CB
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hi all thanks for the comments thanks al so for the offer of sum plate but that's one thing I have a good supply of I work as a tool maker and thick plat is never a problem any way got to work this morning and had a good rut at watt was lying a bawt got an old base plat 30mm thick so cut it in to lumps and set one of the apprentices to start and mill them to shape yes I no its cheating but it learns them haw to clock big lumps up any way tonight first mod the handles on the X and Y was to say the least shocking m8 hole but the shaft of the screw went from 7.6mm to 6 mm and the hed's was no beter so mad new ones up the next thing on the list is to fit locking handles to the X and Y tables and on the mane column right pics
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hi all things have bin going slow with the mill I striped out the head all of the bearings need replacing one shaft badly scored made a new one
went to work this morning did watt I had to do then set to on the two plats that will be the upright ruft them dawn to size then grind them to the proper size plus sum pics of the mashean shop right pics
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more work shop pics
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well can any one help the draw bolt on the mill is m8 but the MT2 sleeves have a m10 thread in them their is sum sort of thread adaptor that goes ether on the draw bolt or in to the tooling can any one help with pics of the item I need to make up will post sum more pics soon
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Hi Krv,
Here ha go! Hope the sketch is clear enough, if not please ask!
Cheers Kerrin
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Those workshop pics are tool porn :drool:.
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hi brill thank you the mill base is al most dune made two uprights to stand the base plate on to all I need to do gnaw is make two plates fore the front and back right pics and more pics of the woks tool room and I don't no if you all can remember me getting a tool box of john well that's the one with big boy on it
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hi all not much bin happening with the mill its all back home drilled two holes for the locking handles and started to pant things up pics o and a few hols to tap for a home made angel bracket
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Your doing a great job of it!
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Paint looks really nice, Bob. Whole project does! :thumbup: :thumbup:
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:thumbup: Coming along nicely Bob :thumbup:
Steve, good to see you back in circulation :beer:
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Nice to see it all coming together now Bob, Its looking good. :clap: :clap:
John
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hi all thanks for the comments all but dun gnaw as im on holiday I have had sum time to put the z and y bit on the base I had to make sum washers for the 4 fixing bolts there 5 mm thick od 32 mm with a 10.2 hole then just put it all back together and clocked the table in so its running parallel with the column run out at both ends the same with a dip in the middle I need to make two bushes for ether end as their is to much play in the end brackets and to drill them to put oilers in the next big job is I need to make a spacer block to bring the head of the mill to the centre of the table right pics first pic of the dti is in the centre then next left then right
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As I mentioned above, I have the same milling head as Bob, but mine is, at the moment, bolted onto the back of my lathe.
Before going the whole hog and emulating Bob's set up with the X,Y table, I decided to try using it as it was originally intended; on the lathe. I haven't done this before as I have the Micro Mill for my small jobs.
So, I removed the lathe topslide and found that I could just about fit my small milling vice to the top of the cross slide if I drilled and tapped some new holes to fix the hold-down clamps.
With this done, and the vice mounted I did a trial run. Milling the surface of a 15 mm wide aluminium block.
(start simple). I was using a 10 mm cutter.
Then I discovered a snag.
You can't lock the cross slide.
Locking the saddle will prevent most of side to side motion, and tightening up the slide gibs helps.
But you encounter a problem. The back lash in the cross slide lead screw.
If, say, you do a cut along the rear of the job (left to right), and you are conventional milling, the cutter will pull the job towards the rear of the machine.
If you now try to repeat the operation along the front (right to left), the cutter again pulls the job. This time towards the front.
Come to think of it, it will also do this when you are milling along opposite sides of a job in the which ever way you are cutting.
Short of fitting some kind of clamp and always ensuring that the backlash is taken up in one direction I can't see an answer to this. There will always be backlash in the lead screw, and unlike the gib slides, it can't be taken out easily.
I posted this here because it may be something Bob has an answer to.
Dave.
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I fitted an extended screw in place of the standard gib adjuster and fabricated a small lever. I can now lock my cross slide. This is on a Boxford.
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Seadog,
I'm considering doing the same thing. My lathe is a Denford.
Thinking about it, I am still going to have to be very careful when moving from side to side as, even if I lock the gib when on one side, I will have to unlock to move to the other side. And will lose my 'zero' in the process.
Dave.
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yep seems to be a conmen problem im on hold at the moment I have got the lump of bare to make the extension to bring the mill head over to the table just had no time to set it up to bore the male fitting will get their soon
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Bob,
Measured up the mill head and there is only 6 1/2" between the front of the column and the centre of the quill. By the time you have added a vice there is only about 3" of movement in the 'y' axis available before you hit the column.
I can get around this to some extent by swinging the head around to about 45 degrees; then the cross slide will miss the column. This, of course, then limits the movement in 'x'.
You can't win.
I considered fitting the shaft between the two beds ( the x,y) sort of in the 'V' instead of at 90 degrees alongside the 'x' bedway at the rear as normal. But it wont really help.
So, like you, I am going to devise some way of bringing the head assembly out over the bed.
That's for later.
Keep up the good work, It helps me to see someone else is doing the same thing.
Dave.
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Bob,
It dawned on me a couple of days ago that if you turn the base of the column around so that the bolting on flange is around the back you could gain a bit of swing out over the bed.
Dave.
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er you have lost me it is all redy bolted on the back will take sum pics to show you any way as at work tomorrow so will be starting on the extension to put the head over the table so I will be posting pics if I had a fixt steady for me compact 8 then I wood have dun this at home. and john is going to have a bit play with his new mill two mill out the two slots for the nuts to go for tinting it to the coelom head
don't like doing things at work as to me its cheating as a lot of people on hear only have watt they have in their home work shop and not a fully kited out tool room
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hi all as promised the bare stock was spot on 100mm so I had to put sum weld on it to make it bigger but before I did that I marked out the centre for the running centre to go in to then I lade dawn sum weld the finish size is 100 mm but the bar was not even so did this to give me a nice finish I then set it up in the lathe and just turned it dawn to 100 mm there is sum holes where I have not put a nuff weld on these will just be field in as its not critical as it will be panted then set up the fixt steady to bore out the end it needed to be 15mm deep by 70mm wide all dun the next step is to get it to john's to drill and put the two cut outs in for it to fit on to the Colom head right pics
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DavidA hi hear is sum pics of the mill Colom I can move the Colom all the way from left to right and there is a pic of watt john has to cut in to the extension right pics
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hi all john milled in the two cut outs for the two nuts that will hold the extension to the Colum and a brill job he did thanks john
set the extension up today to find out haw much of the extension needs cutting dawn by the length of the extension will be 130MM long by the time I mashie the end right pics
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It was a pleasure Mate
There is a bit video on my you tube of the machining
John
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Its coming along verry nicely good job!
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hi all on the final stretch was at work today so I finish off the mill head extension set it up in the 4 jaw chuck then clocked it in then took the end dawn to size then to length then put the grove in for the clamping brackets will put sum more pics up tomorrow of the hole thing coming together right sum pics of watt was dun today and thanks for all the comments
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Looking good Bob
John
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thanks john will get it all together tomorrow
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I cant wait to see this finished.....
I've watched the vids John posted on Youtube, machining the parts 'n' all....quite entertaining too :lol:
Bob,
I hope you get a lot of enjoyment out of using the machine as much as you have had putting it together...
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I hope to
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hi all well the extension fits but im going to have to make it lighter so this will involve cutting it in have then boring etch have out then welding them back together that ant a problem all that needs doing gnaw is make a stand for it sort out the electric's on that point dus any one no the type of capacitor needed for the motor the one that's running it at the minute is my sper one of my lathe any way pics as promist
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Bob,
For the capacitor,
Do you have any details on the motor you could post up please
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Looks good Bob , why do you need to make it lighter? Is it not raised a d lowered by screw mechanism so would lift ok and be more rigid ?
Keep up the good work Bob , it's almost done :thumbup:
Cheers Mick
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yep its raised by a screw but its jamming on the Colom not a problem going up but jams on the downward move support the mill head not a problem I don't think I will loos out in boring out the middle will still have a wall thickness of 30mm carnet go bigger as it will go in to the slots that john made
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That's some extra reach you have there.
I think I may settle for half as much.
Sorry can't help with the capacitor details, my EMCO is three phase.
Dave.
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Thats looking very good now Bob, a nice handy machine for you. I bet Your pleased now its nearly done soon be making swarf.
John
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hi I will get the in fo off the motor tomorrow the length of the extension is 6 inches mad it that long so the mill head will cover the with of the table from front to back im going to clock the head in tomorrow night so their will be sum pics of that on tomorrow thanks all for the comments
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hi all just a bit more clocked the head in tonight I had to put sum 0.25 mm shim in the top you will see them in a pic to tilt the colam over to clock it in put the vice on and clocked that in to I need to make sum t nuts up right the in fo on the motor is sa follows TYPE AOR-63-4
D/M 0.18 volt 440 amps 0.55 55Hz U/min 1380 KW 0.24 N.R 617103 and the make of the motor is wiener starhstrom werke right pics
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Bob,
For your motor capacitor, you most use an Steinmetz connection, the capacitor value could be calculated by the following:
C = 36*P* [(220/U) Squared] * 50/f where: C is microFarads, P is motor power output in kW, U is the single phase voltage and f is frequency in Hertz.
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er ok electrics baffle me thanks for the help
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Bob,
Doesn't the cap you robbed of your other machine have a value marked on it?
Is the motor definitely three phase?
I'll do the calc and tell you the value of the capacitor you need....
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Ok,
Rule of thumb is 70 mfd per 1kw ......
If the kw rating of the motor is 0.25 kw, then a 22mfd capacitor is what you need...but it must be rated for 250v AC....
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The info I have on my EMCO indicates that they come in two versions (electrically).
The single phase 0.16 Kw (0.25 HP)
and the three phase 0.25 Kw (0.34 HP)
I have the parts list and exploded drawings for the machine if you need any parts info.
Dave.
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hi all thanks for the help on the cap the one that's on that's off me lathe can not tell watts printed on it cos its all bin rubbed off lol but the lathe motor is bigger there was a chap on the bay selling the two of them I.E the one for the lathe motor and the one for the mill motor I sent him a email asking if he wood sell me the one for the mill or give me the info of the one for the mill but got no answer back er don't think its 3 phase as its running on 240 volt
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If it's 440v it must be 3 phase Bob
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o well will have to look in to it will probably have to by one of them inverter things
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It'll be cheaper to buy a new motor. Single phase to 3 phase 440v VFDs are very expensive. Or use the Steinmetz connection as already suggested.
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Hi Bob, you have had it running on normal three pin 240 volt mains plugged into wall socket I think ? , if so it must be single phase, does the plug just have live , neutral and earth wires going to the plug ?
Cheers Mick
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Bob,
It can still be three phase even if it is 220 Volt.
Here is the three phase equipment configurations available according to my manual.
Voltage Frequency Ref Number for motor
440 60 ZMO 56 3440
220 60 ZMO 56 3220
500 50 ZMO 56 3500
350 50 ZMO 56 3350
440 50 ZMO 56 3440
380 50 ZMO 56 3380
220 50 ZMO 56 3220
In the single phase versions the last four number set will start with a 1, not a 3.
Hope this helps.
My three phase 440 volt EMCO is running quite happily off my single phase domestic supply (admittedly through a 220-440 step up transformer) with a Steinmetz capacitor to create the third phase.
If yours turns out to be a three phase 220 Volt motor it should run just as well with only the capacitor.
Dave.
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I missed the bit where it says you had it running on single phase.
Sorry about that.
Dave.
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hi as really lost off gnaw all the in fo that's on the motor I have posted the motor is weird up the same way as wires go on me lath motor and that's 240 volt so I weird the mill up in the same way and plugged it in and it runs no strange noises runs all the speeds dus not get hot the cap dus not get hot ? so its ether 240 volt or 440 volt that will run on 240 volt will probelys take it to the motor rewind place and get sum info of them as bin lookin at them inverter things on the bay and its all Japanese to me
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hi mick the motor has 3 plus the earth the third is for switching the motor for forwards to revers threw the forward and revers switch has any on got one of them inverters going cheep
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hi all jus a up date the motor is 440 volt three phase its off to a motor rewing furm will get to no no munday haw mutch its gowing to cost me to get it we rawnd for 240 vlot singel phase
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I would have thought that it would be cheaper to run it with a phase converter than to rewind it. It is possible, in some cases to convert a 440volt three phase to 240 three phase by separating the middle of the "star" connections and extending the coils out to the junction box. A star wound motor has one end of it's three windings connected together, each of the three windings are 240 volt, the sum of any two of the windings gives 440 volt capacity. I'm sure that a reputable re-winding firm would be able to tell you whether they could convert it to 240 three phase in vu to running a phase converter with the added advantage of speed control!
All the best, Matthew.
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hi well in theory yes but all the wiring is inside the motor casing and there is no way to get in without destroying the windings well insulated with that varnish stuff so its gone to be rewound
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Well, that's why I said in some cases, the star connection is done last, so you can very often "operate" on it!
Looking forward to seeing it up and running!
All the best Matthew.
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lol so am I its me own folt shod have looked at the badge on the motor before I pad for it but it was advtised as 240 volt but these things happen every one in the home ant getting out for xmas they can all shear a bag of mixt nuts and have beans on toast for xmas diner
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Come on don't be cheap throw some weiners in the beans!! :beer:
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lol
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What size motor do you need Bob?
I have a couple here, one from an old machine mart Drill press....the small one ( i can check the motor size if you want.
The second one off my Chester 626 mill...big and heavy..
Pay the postage or come to sunny North Wales and take what you want.
Lyn.
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Hi Bob,
the two motors i have here are: Clarke motor from drill press 230v=50Hz 245w 1.03 amps 1400rpm.
and the Chester 626 mill motor: 240v 50Hz 1.5HP 1400rpm Induction motor it says on the plate.
Lyn.
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Lyn,
The motor on the EMCO is mounted directly to the top of the gearbox. So it isn't really straight forward to use another physically different one. The Flange fitting and all the other gubbins has to be identical.
I run mine (415V 3 Phase) via a 220/415 Volt auto-transformer, pilot motor, and a capacitor set. works well.
Dave.
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Thanks for that Dave, tis all magic to me this high voltage lark, 12volts and i am ok, even 60/80v in comms but not the killer stuff..
Lyn.
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hi thank you so much for the offer but as bin expland it ant that simple and as for the black arte of elektrikery its all Japanese to me still can not figer out haw a magnet spinning a rawn mikes elektrikery lol
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hi all an up date I phoned the people up regarding me motor last week just to see watts happening I went a bit whit when they sed they had re rewind it . the ££££ just came up but no need to panic £60 for the rewind I asked them to put a forwherd and revers switch on for me they did not have any in so they wood have to by one in so I put a extra £20 in just to cover the cost of the switch they shod be dropping off the motor sum time next week as all x sited its like xmas
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Good to hear you are making progress on this Bob...... :zap:
Looking forward to seeing a video of the mill running making swarf....( maybe you enlist the help of John DB? :beer: )
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hi yap that's all in hand
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hi all yep I no a long time has past sins the last post as you all no I had to get the motor rewound as it was 3pase not UK 240 volt single phase
got the motor dun just wated for a switch to turn up on a slow bot from china it did not land I got one off the net wrong one :palm: got the details off the motor people of the type of switch I needed went to RS got the switch :) got the holl lot back they cud not get the gear box to work they had one of the selectors up side dawn put that right repainted the motor body back in to work got the switch and motor weird up plugged it in nothing happened :bugeye: fuse in the plug had blown new fuse and its alive will post sum pics tomorrow night :nrocks: :nrocks:
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Glad things are progressing Bob :thumbup:
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Pleased you are nearly sorted
John
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Great news Bob, get that camera fired up and get some photos done lad :thumbup: I hope your happy with it , its fought you until the end this one Bob :palm:.
Looking forward to seeing it up and running :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Cheers Mick.
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still a lot to do need a bench for it a bracket making up to bolt the switch to swafe covers D.R.O and so on
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still a lot to do need a bench for it a bracket making up to bolt the switch to swafe covers D.R.O and so on
Thats nowt to a bloke like you Bob :thumbup: :thumbup: :clap:
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I when is you gowing to get your lath dun lol
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I can see me ending up with that lathe
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You must have run out of space by now JOHN, down boy :ddb:
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You need a Shaper John! :thumbup:
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You need a Shaper John! :thumbup:
I would make space for that
Best Colchester Lathe I have ever seen
John
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hi all as promist sum pics
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To quote somebody who often posts here ...... Brill :lol:
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lol its the only wored I can spell properly :lol:
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:thumbup:
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:thumbup:
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Well done Bob
John
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:thumbup:
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hi all will throw this out there on the mane shaft that's the silver one in the pick on the top there shod be a ejector nut its a 16mm by 1 mm pitch thread with a hole in it witch you un do the draw bar when the draw bar hits this it shoves the morce taper free has any one got one they can do a drawing off so I can make one up the manufacture name plat sits right behind the shaft and was well beaten up as people had bin hitting the draw bar with a hammer and the plate at the same time I have removed the name plat as the motor is gnaw 240 volt still kept the plate im going to put a pace of stanles steel in its place hopefully this week end
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Iff you have a corser thead on the draw bar it will pull the taper in and then release by unsrewing , turn the chuck or cutter in untill friction is felt tighten the nut a turn or two , jobs a goodun .
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I do have one of those "undo"- caps on my Emco FB2 mill. All it really is, is a sleeve or cap over the drawbar bolt which resist the force of the screw coming up. Rather simple really.
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hi its a live its a live made my take on the ejector nut 17mm c/f stanles steel drilled out to 15.3mm taped 16x1 mm by 30mm deep drilled a 7.3 hole in the top for the alan key to fit threw clocked the head in had a bit play with a block of aluminium then put the flats on the two new back lash screws then made up the two locking screws right sum pics ps any on no where I can get sum of that lovear rubber to make bed covers with
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Well done Bob your a man of many talents! :thumbup:
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Very nice Bob
Wont be long until we get some video of the mill working
John
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Nicely done Bob... :thumbup:
Arceurotrade sell rubber way protectors....
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hi john rudd glad you like the work so far yep bin informed by mick will av a look on line
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hi all bin bizz with the mill this weekend the two brackets on the top table had to much play in them sos no pic of this bit but on the first bracket on the back side the hole was 11.5mm and at the front 10.5mm so had a rut and fawned sum 12.7mm O.D with a internal of 9.5 oil light bushes just the job as the shaft is 10mm so reemd out the bracket with a 12.7 mm reamer then with sum Bering fit put them in but left a oil gap between them then once the stuff had gone off reemd out to 10mm then lost the key one the end of the shaft mad a new one then fawned the old one :doh: any way all fitted up nice next make two oil ports only got on dun will do the other one tomorrow just need to fit the spring and drill the bracket right pics
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How long to make an oiler ? http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machine-Spares/Lubrication-Accessories/Press-Button-Oilers , nice job :med:
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rather make me own
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rather make me own
I completely understand, this is all about making things!! :thumbup:
All the best, Matthew
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well i started thisd post on the mill for two resons furst off ther is plenty of bench top mills out ther but they all have problems i don.t need a big mill as you can see by the pics of my work place i have plenty of big toys to play with the second reson is watt can be a cheved in a home workshop with not a lot of spear cash. a long time a go you cud by mill kits dezined to be made at home to be fiteed on to lathes
if you have the cash you can by out but not all have a desposabal incum and yep things have becum much cheeper and a lot of things that once was made at home are gnaw got on line but if you only need two why by 10 but thats just me
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Hi Bob , if you only need two why buy ten ........................ do you think that about drill bits too then :clap: :thumbup: :lol:
Cheers Mick
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lol no I will snap 9 of them
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hi I must say sorry for my rant on sat was having a bad day so please forgive and give me a slap
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Don't worry about your rant Bob............... but me and John will give you a good slap on Wednesday anyway lol :poke: :thumbup:
Cheers Mick
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It was a poke at your houry rate and making a profit at 25P an houre , I am sorry that you took it the wrong way .
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hi chip let me apologize I got out the rong side of the bed the dog bit me the wife bunt me toast broke me best coffee cup the receptionist at work witch I have having my wicked way with told me she is pregnant ? don't no haw as I have the two bricks sterilisation er your not her boy friend are you ??? so its all my folt and you can hit me with a big stick :wack:
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so its all my folt and you can hit me with a big stick
OO S&M now your talking :palm: I am 12 miles form the Channel tunnel , I can't find a stick long enugh :offtopic:.
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its ok I will make a helicopter and fly there :)
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hi all just an up date the mill ant moved on much its all up and running still a lot to do I got the d.r.o kit at the model show I got sum way covering just no time to start and finish it on a different there was a mill head the same as mine up for sale at the show and they wanted a woping £800 and something :bugeye: any way im going to get john over to do a vid of it so far
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Looking forward to it, Bob! :beer:
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well did a bit more to the mill today the handle for moving the quill was missing so had to make one had a rut in me old socket draw and fawned a 13mm socket to do the job had to cut this dawn to 8mm ha not a hope in hell normally the cheep sockets are made of toffee not this one had to mashen it to length once that bit was dun had to make a boss for it to fit in to dug out a lump of steel and turned it dawn to 30mm OD then bored it out to 18mm so that the socket wood be a push fit then put a 10 degree angel on the outer edge so when the handles go on they come out at a angel marked off the center then parted it off set it up in the mill and drilled the two holes for the handles drilled 5mm tap m6 made two handles out of 9mm bare turned dawn both ends to 6mm then threaded them m6 I estimated the length of the handles to be 120mm cut them to this length then taped the ends m8 for the balls to go on priest in the socket in to the boss put the handles in then silver soldered them in place then cleaned it up and gave it a cote of pant right pics
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Looking good so far Bob , well done 👍
Good idea offsetting the bar away from the hub to give you more clearance in use.
Ian