MadModder
The Shop => Wood & Stuff => Topic started by: RossJarvis on August 18, 2013, 07:42:08 PM
-
Hello people
I have just joined this site and am planning to build a timber framed log store for the lady next door. This is Mark 1 which I made for our house;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/_DSC2725copy.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/_DSC2725copy.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/_DSC2724copy.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/_DSC2724copy.jpg.html)
I need to rethink the front row of shingles to make them more robust and try to improve the quality of the joints. She'd also like it to be wider so I'm going to make two bays instead of one (or at least fake it with a middle post).
These are my plans, which should be good enough to make a cutting list and get the job done;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/logstorecopy.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/logstorecopy.jpg.html)
If anyone can see any flaws or omissions please tell me.
I'm thinking of making all the joints in traditional British Timber frame style, pegged with wooden dowel. It'll be made of pressure treated pine with the odd screw maybe and nails, but no glue. I'm yet to think about chopping all the mortices by hand or possibly using a bench mortiser. There's also the option of using a brace and bit or Mr Makita. I'm in two minds whether to go the full hog and do everything with mandraulics or give in to modernity and use the mighty electron!
-
Hello,
Looks like a nice plan. I like timber frame construction.
Couple of toughts:
* That amount of wood would be consumed here in a week or less when it's cold. Is that secondary storage or just for entertainment?
* I would make legs longer, we get here almost a meter of snow, last ones on the spring would be soggy if they were that close to ground.
* if you use screws with treated timber, make sure the screws are compatible, othervice they will corrode in in few years. I don't see they need to use treated timber in this structure on anywhere else than base and even that should be off the ground ( I see you have done that with a brik). Put a tarfelt or such between block and wood, it will slow rotting. For base I would use something less porous material than a brik or a building block, natural stone or concrete is better.
* Here people put some sort side walls and some shutters to prevent snow from gluing it solid during the winter. They are removable and not that solid, because air must circulate to dry the wood.
We tend to make them whole lot more utilitarian, I respect your effort to make it more designed with the house.
Pekka
-
Pekka, thank you for your advice.
Yes, that's about a weeks worth of wood. We don't have much room to store wood and if anything it is more of an "entertainment" than a serious log store. My wife likes us to use wood for environmental reasons, I prefer coal because I'm the one who has to bring in the fuel, lay the fire, light it, keep it stoked and clean out the grate! When it gets cold we burn the wood for the first week and then I fill the store with bags of coal!
The lady next door has "seasoned" logs delivered in bags every week or so and likes to have stuff that looks nice.
Here in the south of England we get snow for about a week a year and no more than 10cm. The one I have made is not treated timber and seems okay, We have a lot of rain and it is good for keeping the wood dry without sides or shutters.
I was thinking to use galvanised nails instead of screws and better check to see they are compatible.
The main reason I actually want to make it is to practice making mortice and tenon joints in a local house building style from about 300 - 800 years ago. I would rather use oak but in England all timber is very expensive and seems to be the stuff that no-one else wants!
-
If you want traditional I would take my cutting list to a the New Forest , and find a charcoal burner or forester and ask for some green Chestnut , square it with a draw knife and split it with wedges .
Jeff
-
If you want traditional I would take my cutting list to a the New Forest , and find a charcoal burner or forester and ask for some green Chestnut , square it with a draw knife and split it with wedges .
Jeff
Ah, that's next weeks project :bugeye: the week after that, I'll be taking a felling axe into the wood across the road, tumble a few oak and then convert them to beams with the side axe. Then I'll get out the saw, slick and callipers and by the end of the week I expect to have an entire workshop up and PeteW can come round to install three phase :thumbup:
-
Thought I'd better check out if I could find the mortiser in the "climate controlled" stores...yep, there she is under the generator;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/mortiserstores.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/mortiserstores.jpg.html)
Now for phase 1, installing on the workbench in the carpentry workshop;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/mortiserinstall.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/mortiserinstall.jpg.html)
Hmmm, better check the weather forecast before I do any more :doh:
Oh yes, now where did I put the mortising bits??? :bang:
-
Sounds nice. If the house has timberframe features, making the wood storage somewhat same style is very good starting point. Make it look traditional, but if you don't have traditional tools, use anything you have.
I like using firewood. Tell your wife that she is absolutely right. :wave:
If my memory serves right oak eats iron and iron nails tend to turn ugly black spots. One thing to check.
Here trated wood composition has changes so many times I have lost track when to use stainless, when to use palstic coated etc...Older treatments used to have metalic salts (yuk.) and they eat normal passivated or even galvanized screvs like you could actually hear them rusting. Then they got more enviromental and that ate stanless steel.....
Can't wait to see how it comes up. Sounds promissing.
Pekka
-
SNIP
Then I'll get out the saw, slick and callipers and by the end of the week I expect to have an entire workshop up and PeteW can come round to install three phase :thumbup:
Sorry, Ross, I can't do 'install' and/or 'three phase' ! :bang: :bang: :bang: Blame John Prestcott and his Part P! Besides, three phase can bite! :zap: :zap: :zap:
Three phase used to be RED :zap: YELLOW :zap: BLUE :zap: but now it's BROWN :zap: BLACK :zap: GREY :zap: (Oops, the palette doesn't have a grey!)
(Or is it BLACK :zap: BROWN :zap: GREY :zap: ?)
I didn't know you had a mortice machine. If you can't find the bits, I have a set that might fit. They came as an extra with my Axminster drill press. Do I gather you might also need to borrow a couple of planes and an oilstone?
-
The main reason I actually want to make it is to practice making mortice and tenon joints in a local house building style from about 300 - 800 years ago.
By God that mortiser looks to be in good nick for a 300 to 800 year old machine :Doh:
-
I will admit that the mortiser is a modern reproduction :palm:
Yes Pekka, if I had a car, I'd collect logs for firewood and split 'em myself. However, the Health and Safety laws have changed and we're no longer allowed our ancient common right to collect fallen wood from the forests! Too many people have cut off limbs with chainsaws apparently (I thought that that was what they were for!)
Our house is not timber framed, but many in the village are, so it is in keeping with the locality.
Anyway, mortiser fettled and fitted to machinery bench, just need to square the fence and plumb in the electrons, however as I said my square and verniers are now on holiday with a financial consultant in tool kits No1 & 2, so I need to find two wotsits of equal length to square off the support thingies.
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/machinebench.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/machinebench.jpg.html)
Luckily the weather forecast is good for today :med:
PeteW, if you think you're having trouble with your shed you should see mine;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/shed.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/shed.jpg.html)
I've been waiting four years for the "Sky Hooks" to arrive. Once they're here I can install the roof, plumb down the corners to lay a floor and then build the walls. (That's what I told the beloved wife anyway) :scratch:
Thanks for the offer of tools, The mortice bits (chisels?) were in tool kit No3, but I'm down to my last five planes, which might see me through and I've got four grades of Japanese waterstones for a nice edge. (if you look carefully to the left of the morticer you can see a couple of old retired beech planes, I don't count these as usable any more).
-
Have just got back from the wood yard, having taken two cutting lists with me, Metric and Imperial and having applied a lot of mandraulics to cut and shift, I now have a flat-pack log store in the back garden. All I need to add now is some blood, sweat, tears and fine Picto-Celto-Anglo-Saxon words! You just don't want to know how much this little pile of firewood cost :doh:
Am now trying to work out which bit is what :coffee:
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/flatpack.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/flatpack.jpg.html)
-
We also have a wood burning fire place both for cosiness and support during the few very cold spells that come our way in the winter. We live just south of Gothenburg in Sweden and it can get well below -25 Centigrade at times.
So somewhere to store the winter supplies of fire wood is required and I made this one for our house.
(http://i577.photobucket.com/albums/ss219/H0n3/MyGarden/vedlager.jpg)
Unfortunately the only picture I have is right at the front, but it is a little over 2 meters wide, about the same in height, and about 60 cm (2 feet) deep. That crates enough space for two layers of logs in depth.
The sides are covered with the same panelling as the house and the roofing is the simplest ever, just ordinary roofing tar paper on top of boards.
I divided the storage into two sections, one for burning this year and one for next. That way I can have quite fresh wood to store and suitably dry to burn.
Since the store is high, i made the dividing wall open but wioth standing bars. That way I can place a horizontal stick at suitable levels and prevent the pile to fall out. The "floor" is built with distance between the boaards to enable enough air to flow through the wood stack.
All the wood used was ordinary pine without treatment. After finished build I painted the outside the same as the house with the same colours, and the inside with a suitable wood preservation fluid.
Well, just as an idea not to make the storage too small.
BR
/Peter
-
That looks really good Peter. I think your's is a lot more practical than mine. The one I'm building is just under 2m wide (6 foot), 0.6m deep (2 foot) and about 1.2m high at the front (4 foot). It will hold two layers of logs. How long does your store of logs last? I think this one will take about 60% of yours. What size wood did you use for the frame?
I like the idea of standing bars in the middle :clap: and will think about how to do this. The "floorboards" are to have gaps for good circulation of air like yours. I need to think about whether or not to put roofing felt/tar paper in, however the shingles all overlap so seem to work well to keep the rain out.
Where I live many people have more money than sense so tend to have articles that look nice, rather than being practical. In a way this is an "Arts and Crafts" style project.
The lady next door has seen similar stores in shops but they are not as strong as mine. She says they flex when you push them. My design is a "Space Frame" with" triangulated Braces". I can stand on the roof with no problems and I weigh 92kg (14.5 stone or 200 pounds). You could probably park a car on it (or maybe a motorbike).
Mind you, the cost of the wood alone so far is more than buying a new log store from the shops, If I were to be charging labour it would end up 6 times as much!!!
-
We have two wood burning stoves, and log storage has always been an issue. So when I re-built one of our timber outbuildings in brick I incorporated a log store into the end of it. The opening is a standard 30" door frame with no door, but it is about 2 metres wide, 2.4 metres high and three metres deep. So realistically about 12 cubic metres as you need to leave air space at the top. I incorporated ventilation into the brickwork at the rear.
Currently I'm swamping in willow, which burns hot but very fast (it was free for the cutting- I have 25 jumbo bags of it in the farm yard and I've stacked 8 more in the wood store to keep dry. I'm confident that we will easily burn the stuff in the store this coming winter.
-
This is mine built from reclaimed fencing and big screws
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/casting/boot%20sale/IMG_4547_zpsbbad1d05.jpg) (http://s261.photobucket.com/user/john970s0/media/casting/boot%20sale/IMG_4547_zpsbbad1d05.jpg.html)
(http://i261.photobucket.com/albums/ii63/john970s0/casting/boot%20sale/IMG_4535_zps13d502db.jpg) (http://s261.photobucket.com/user/john970s0/media/casting/boot%20sale/IMG_4535_zps13d502db.jpg.html)
-
Grief Doubleboost, now that is a log store :bugeye: I love the "vernacular" style and use of old materials.
Awemawson: One of our neighbours has something very similar on the front of their house, however it is only about 12" deep! I think it is more of a feature than practical. It's great to see so many burning wood and the ways of getting it. The ventilation at the back is really nice.
Unfortunately we have open fires which are designed for coal and are very poor at heating with wood, ideally we'd need a stove of some sort to stop the heat going straight up the chimney. Additionally, we're short on space outside, what with two wheelie bins, water butt and glass bin, so we don't have much width. I think I need to put a second storey under mine.
-
That looks really good Peter. I think your's is a lot more practical than mine. The one I'm building is just under 2m wide (6 foot), 0.6m deep (2 foot) and about 1.2m high at the front (4 foot). It will hold two layers of logs. How long does your store of logs last? I think this one will take about 60% of yours. What size wood did you use for the frame?
The difference between yours and mine seems to be the height only. We use up about half of the store per winter. Mostly to have a cosy fire and at times to add to the house heating.
The floor part is made from a frame of 125x50 mm (5"x2") with three feet at the front to get about 20 cm (8") of clearance to the ground. The rear frame is secured to the house, in this case my garage. Between fromnt and rear I have 125x50 braces on top of which i put 75x25 (3"x2") floor boards with about 25 mm (1") spaces for ventilation.
Then I made a simple frame from 50x50 (2"x2") at the front and rear corners, as well as in the middle. The rear corner piees were secured to the garage as the bottom frame. Betwseen the corner posts I put braces with a distance of about 60 cm (two feet) to form kind of a ladder on each side. I replicated the roof angle from the garage, still using 50x50 for the framing.
At this point I took a spade drill and drilled I think five holes evenly through the middle "ladder" and using "broom sticks" it became like a fence to separate the two sides of the store. That done finished the framework.
Next up was to cover the roof with ordinary cheap boards or planks about 20x100 (1"x4") onto which I put some roof tar felt. When I made the roof I nowadays think I made a little too small overhang at the front. A little more would have protected the log ends better. After the roof came the sides which is the same type of panel as on the house. Bottom layer is 25x150mm (1"x6") with a 50 mm (2") gap. The gap is then covered with a 25x100 (1"x4") board as a lid. The construction ventilates the panel extremely well. Then the last bit was to finish with trimmings around corners, under the roof edges and the opening. Finally painted to match.
I like the idea of standing bars in the middle :clap: and will think about how to do this. The "floorboards" are to have gaps for good circulation of air like yours. I need to think about whether or not to put roofing felt/tar paper in, however the shingles all overlap so seem to work well to keep the rain out.
Where I live many people have more money than sense so tend to have articles that look nice, rather than being practical. In a way this is an "Arts and Crafts" style project.
The lady next door has seen similar stores in shops but they are not as strong as mine. She says they flex when you push them. My design is a "Space Frame" with" triangulated Braces". I can stand on the roof with no problems and I weigh 92kg (14.5 stone or 200 pounds). You could probably park a car on it (or maybe a motorbike).
Mind you, the cost of the wood alone so far is more than buying a new log store from the shops, If I were to be charging labour it would end up 6 times as much!!!
Even though I have not used very heavy material, the strength of the total construction is really good. I can easily stand on the roof, something I dod when changing the roof tiles on the garage.
Our wood burning stove is a moderna construction with a traditional design as shown in this link:
http://www.keddy.se/kaminer/latta-murspisar/carisma-2 (http://www.keddy.se/kaminer/latta-murspisar/carisma-2)
(Unfortunately the text is in swedish so you have to use the translate button, but it really is a plate cassette inserted into a reinforced concrete case. It is light enough to stand directly onto a standard floor and does not get very hot on the outside. It includes a fan in the bottom that createes an airflow around the cassette and chimney pipe and blows the hot air out into the room through the black ventilator a bit up the chimney. The air for the fire is taken from the outside in a separate flow so as not to use up the hot indoor air. It is very economical and stores its heat from late evening and is still luke warm in the morning.
Such a cassette would perhaps be a good solution to add to your open fireplace for better "fuel economy".
Nice to read and see others solutions as well. Variations on a theme so to say :thumbup: :clap:
BR
/Peter
-
It'll be interesting to see how we get on this winter - it'll be the first since we did a major refurbishment. The back of the house was single skin brick with no insulation, and single glazed windows. Now we've excavated the floor to a depth of three foot, inorporated 100mm high rate insulation and wet underfloor heating over a new concrete slab, put in double glazing and a new inner skin to the walls with insulation between so the heat load will be much reduced hopefully - certainly the bank balance was much reduced :(
-
http://www.keddy.se/kaminer/latta-murspisar/carisma-2 (http://www.keddy.se/kaminer/latta-murspisar/carisma-2)
(Unfortunately the text is in swedish so you have to use the translate button, but it really is a plate cassette inserted into a reinforced concrete case. It is light enough to stand directly onto a standard floor and does not get very hot on the outside. It includes a fan in the bottom that createes an airflow around the cassette and chimney pipe and blows the hot air out into the room through the black ventilator a bit up the chimney. The air for the fire is taken from the outside in a separate flow so as not to use up the hot indoor air. It is very economical and stores its heat from late evening and is still luke warm in the morning.
Such a cassette would perhaps be a good solution to add to your open fireplace for better "fuel economy".
Nice to read and see others solutions as well. Variations on a theme so to say :thumbup: :clap:
BR
/Peter
Thank you for your reply Peter, I think your construction is good and very solid, similar to much of mine in sizes.
I really like that wood burner, it looks very beautiful and seems a good design. In our house we have bare wooden floor boards with big gaps. When the fire is burning the heat and gas going up the chimney pull an enormous amount of air through the gaps, creating very cold feet. There is no insulation under the floor boards (only damp!!) and the gap is ventilated to directly outside.
I've been thinking of ways to get the "fresh air" ducted inside directly to the fire. A sealed burner would be ideal with a pipe to outside. I'll have to ask the landlord. However we'd have to have a low stove vented through the fireplace and up the chimney.
Awemawson, it sounds like your house used to be like ours. Our external walls are double skinned, but with single glazing and original sliding sash windows at the rear of the house. As I said there is cold air and swamp under the living room (the sofa is a good way of covering up the rotting boards!!) I hope you have a snuggly warm winter this year. With the way fuel bills are going up, you may recoup your bank balance sooner than you thought.
The beloved wanted me to rip up the carpet and sand the boards, after renting the sanders, buying sanding sheets and oiling the boards I found out I could have replaced the lot with oak for the same price! Wish I had and stuffed a lot of insulation down at the same time.
-
Awemawson, it sounds like your house used to be like ours. Our external walls are double skinned, but with single glazing and original sliding sash windows at the rear of the house. As I said there is cold air and swamp under the living room (the sofa is a good way of covering up the rotting boards!!) I hope you have a snuggly warm winter this year. With the way fuel bills are going up, you may recoup your bank balance sooner than you thought.
In 1645 it was a modest oak framed clap boarded 'bothy'. Much added to over the centuries. Someone removed the clap board, and built a brick outer skin, lining inside with lathe & plaster, then later plaster boarded over. Sadly we had to remove the timber frame, building a 7 newton block wall where it had been with a 100 mm cavity and insulation. We kept as much of the original timber that was internally exposed as we could to preserve the character, but although it is in the same place as originally, it is no longer structural but purely decorative. Took a bit of head scratching to get it all right! Mind you the extension that a previous owner put up in 2006 took quite a bit of putting right structurally !!!
-
Awemawson, Sounds like you did the right thing with the frame :thumbup: The problem with British Timber frame houses is that the timber is on the outside where the neighbours see it and the owner just has plaster to look at, better to keep it to yourself.
As another day has dawned I thought I'd look out all the tools I'll need;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/tools.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/tools.jpg.html)
I'm probably being a bit extravagant but "hey ho". I don't need a tape measure or rule as there's no need for standard measurements, I'll need to sharpen the marking knife, chisels and plane iron, make a double ended pointy stick, make a 45degree cardboard template and find the plumb bob I've been tripping over daily for the past 13 years, which has just decided to hide!
We can also pretend there is no "tinworm" on any of these tools and that I've been looking after them carefully :palm:
Just going to do the washing up so that I can use the sink to sharpen the tools.
-
Awemawson, I was wondering how much of the frame was left? 1645 eh, good oak should have just settled in and seasoned by now!
PeteW, if I havent bored you to tears already and you're still watching, here's my Japanese waterstones;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/sharpenstones.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/sharpenstones.jpg.html)
They're on the edge of the "ahem" grinding station (don't tell Becka :hammer:). Anyway, the discarded grit cleans the stainless sink up nicely :headbang:
-
Front frame laid out, levelled and squared to mark out the tenons. Couldn't find a piece of string so had to use a tape measure as second best to set the distances between members. You wouldn't believe the things I've found looking for tools which are no longer there :dremel:
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/layout.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/layout.jpg.html)
-
Ross,
Problem with the old oak is it was riddled with death watch beetle. I have kept as much as was relatively sound and have it stacked close to my woodwork shop - but I reckon it's frankly not much good
-
Ross,
Problem with the old oak is it was riddled with death watch beetle. I have kept as much as was relatively sound and have it stacked close to my woodwork shop - but I reckon it's frankly not much good
That's a shame, maybe you can cut the odd bit out for a small project. The last time I worked some old oak it was about 200 years old, I think it was an old newel post so had been well protected. It was like cast iron!
-
Hi there, Ross and Andrew,
A few years ago I had to saw up some 100 year-old pine matchboarding - it was so tough I thought it was hardwood. :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
The softwood we get from local timber merchants nowadays has been hewn from the trunk of a mature stinging nettle!!! :Doh: :Doh: :Doh:
-
Hi there, Ross and Andrew,
A few years ago I had to saw up some 100 year-old pine matchboarding - it was so tough I thought it was hardwood. :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
The softwood we get from local timber merchants nowadays has been sawn from the trunk of a mature stinging nettle!!! :Doh: :Doh: :Doh:
Pete, too right old pal. Trying to find dry, straight and non-knotty pine down Travesty Perkins has been a bit of a trial. I believe what they sell now is what used to be called deal, i.e. the cheapest of the cheap weakest stinging nettle!
Have not progressed far on the practical side, have been staring at the timbers and re-working-out-in-my-head some of the joints so have not yet marked them up. However I have updated the plans so I can remember which type of joint goes where;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/plans2small.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/plans2small.jpg.html)
-
Marking out mortices and tenons with a mortice chisel and square;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/_DSC2742.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/_DSC2742.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/_DSC2745.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/_DSC2745.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/_DSC2744.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/_DSC2744.jpg.html)
Next step, blood letting with tenon saw and morticing machine. :thumbup:
-
If anyone was watching this thread I've now moved it into a forum where it seems a bit more appropriate;
http://www.ukworkshop.co.uk/forums/hello-newbie-here-timber-frame-log-store-project-t72698.html
Thanks for watching :thumbup:
-
Why not double-post? I liked this thread and will be following it.
BR
/Peter
-
Thanks for the interest Peter, I'll see what I can do. I'd been doing that before, but couldn't see an easy way to get the pictures in both, as they don't give me links to Photobucket.
Ross
-
I would like you to continue with this post as well
John
-
Thanks for the interest Peter, I'll see what I can do. I'd been doing that before, but couldn't see an easy way to get the pictures in both, as they don't give me links to Photobucket.
Ross
Hi Ross,
Photobucket links are easy. The address link always starts with a [ img ] (please remove the spaces between the square brackets the tag won't show here otherwise. Then get a copy of the direct link to the picture in P-bucket and paste it after the "]". Then finish the string with [ /img ] (remove any spaces between the square brackets here as well. With the "img"-tags at each end of the P-bucket URL you can just copy-paste the link into basically any forum writing pane. So copy bewteen two forums should be a copy-paste activity.
If you want to be safe, pste the complete entry in a WordPad window first so you donä't loose it all by accident.
BR
/Peter
-
Thanks for the interest Peter, I'll see what I can do. I'd been doing that before, but couldn't see an easy way to get the pictures in both, as they don't give me links to Photobucket.
Ross
Ross
You may have had a problem posting photos as you are a new member there. Here is what I found about posting photo's on that site.
Off site URL's to file hosting sites can be linked after you have made three forum posts.
For the images to display you need the url to be included in img tags. E.G.
Otherwise follow thru the way PeterE has shown you. Hope this helps. Any problems ask and we will do what we can for you. :D :D
Cheers :beer:
Don
-
Thanks Don,
I'd got into the habit of putting images in from my desktop and haven't yet worked out the URL thingy. I do find these type-writer-telly machines a bit confusing, particularly as I've bought a new "Apple Raincoat".
-
Thanks Don,
I'd got into the habit of putting images in from my desktop and haven't yet worked out the URL thingy. I do find these type-writer-telly machines a bit confusing, particularly as I've bought a new "Apple Raincoat".
Ross
The photo's that you put in post's #26 & #27 were put in with the URL and img tags.
What is an "Apple Raincoat"? I've never heard of it before. Please don't tell me that it is a new name for computer. :lol: :lol:
Cheers :beer:
Don
-
Here we go guys, next instalment. I've copied the text off the other site and tried to match up the photos. I couldn't find a couple, but I hope you can get an idea from the context.
The top of the far post is showing some twist (or wind I think some people call it);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2737.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2737.jpg.html)
The others are laying much flatter so those timbers are probably straighter. This brings up the problem of how to cut the joint. If there was going to be a tenon on the top "beam" I could cut the mortice "square" to the face of the post. When joined the joint would force the post square, straightening it. (or it would if I was good at these things and didn't leave massive gaps ) However this puts tension into the thing which could be a problem. I could trim the face of the twisted post to be square to the beam, or cut the tenon "shoulders" to the angle of the post face. However, this is all too brain numbing so I'll just blunder in regardless and see what happens .
As it is, for this joint the tenon is going to be at the top of the post. As the beam doesn't extend beyond the top of the post It's going to be either like a square peg with all the sides trimmed off, or more likely to have three sides trimmed off, leaving enough room for the wooden peg which'll hold the joint together. I'll still have the problem of how to deal with the twist. I think I'll "scribe" the tenon up from the top face of the beam. Which means that I'll mark the end of the tenon on the top of the post, parallel to the beam rear face.
Confused, have I lost you? Well I'm now more clueless than I was when I started, we'll just see what happens shall we
I've started to mark out the joints, first I'd numbered them (well with letters actually) and written which bit were wot and which way up it goes to save confusion later;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2740.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2740.jpg.html)
Then I started to mark out the tenons at the top;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2742.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2742.jpg.html)
I'm resting the mortice chisel on the "beam" as this is pretty square and straight. The chisel is close to a third the thickness of the wood so is a good measure to get it to work. I marked with a knife first, then pencil so I can actually see the line On this joint, there is twist in the tenon piece so on one side the tenon will be closer to the edge than the other. It'll look "on the p***" but hopefully it'll be in line with the mortice (famous last words ). I can plane the twisted face later to make it look straight!!
The next piccie shows me using a square off the back face of the timber to mark the ends of mortices and shoulders of tenons. This also shows up any twist in the "beams" which are the lower timbers;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2745.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2745.jpg.html)
The good thing about using a knife to mark is that you can hold it flat on the edge of the chisel to get your mark dead on (that's my story anyway, and I'm sticking to it
Next I'm marking in the waste, so that I don't cut out the wrong bit of the wood ;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2741.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2741.jpg.html)
Step the next. Marking out on the bench.
As the tenons are going into a hole cut by a mortice chisel, you can mark the thickness of the tenon with the aforementioned chisel, just remember, this works for both traditional mallet powered ones and the new fangled hollow ones with a drill down the middle wot a motor turns. If using a proper mallet powered one don't lay the chisel on it's side as it's got a taper on it Additionally don't lay the chisel down on the edge of the bench or anywhere where it can fall on a flagstone floor hopefully you don't need to ask why, but I did this twice
Attachment:
_DSC2748.JPG [ 47.64 KiB | Viewed 48 times ]
Once you've marked out both sides (ends?) of the tenon you can join them together with the chisel.
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2749.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2749.jpg.html)
Once marked in, you can mark the waste, I use a soft pencil for this, but a marker pen or paint roller are just as good, make sure it's OBVIOUS which bit of wood you need to keep and which bit gets cut out This is the tenon, which is on the twisted end of the post, so it's actually supposed to be on the p*** (at an angle!) honest!
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2750.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2750.jpg.html)
Now then, when you find you can't find your marking knife because you put it down somewhere safe, you may be lucky enough to have an American Carpenters Square and you can always use the scriber in the base.
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2751.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2751.jpg.html)
I'm not sure why the Americans have carpenters squares like this, as it is very very similar to an engineers combination square, the only difference being that you have to fettle it first to make it work
Next marking out the lap joint (I think that's what this is called, though I suppose it might be a halved joint or halving joint, I'm relatively sure it's not a housing joint). For this I'm joining two timbers cut to about midway. To get the middle line of the wood, I'm using a marking gauge. First off set it to about the middle of the timber and mark a dot in from each side;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2752.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2752.jpg.html)
If lucky or skilled (or both) you'll either have two dots very close together or one dot. If you've one dot you're spot on. Look at the point on the gauge and if it is set wider than midpoint then narrow the gap, if shorter than midpoint open the gap. I was taught that you do the thumbscrew up till it just bites first and tap the thin bit of the gauge on the bench to adjust the gap. When right, tighten the thumbscrew a bit more.
"Tapping the gauge" (Dear me I could do with tapping a firkin right now!!);
Attachment:
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2753.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2753.jpg.html)
Mark the midline in from what will be the front face of the post, then square the edges of the joint and mark the waste.
Next mark the joint in the beam. You don't need to reset the gauge and it's actually better if you don't. If the two timbers are different thicknesses, this'll cause problems. Just remember to mark in from the front face of this timber too.;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2754.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2754.jpg.html)
I don't see the need to mark the other side of the mortices as The lines marked are off the datum, plus with the morticer the chisel, cutty, drilly thing takes care of the other side.
I marked the mortices for the end of the beam, by resting them flat on the ends of the posts with the front face down, I then marked them up by using the mortice chisel. A lot of head scratching occurred trying to do this in the middle of the beam, cos I couldn't get it flush due to the wide shank. I then remembered how to use the "American Carpenter's Square" as a marking gauge, this means I can probably do away with the older beech gauge I was using.
What I did was place the chisel flush to the right angled handley bit (stock?) and slid the rule down till it was flush with the chisel;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/_DSC2756copy.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/_DSC2756copy.jpg.html)
Then I could use this to mark in from the "front face", using the end of the rule to scribe along.
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/_DSC2755copy.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/_DSC2755copy.jpg.html)
Then I dropped the chisel on the stone flags for a third time
Now all the joints are marked out, it's time to do a check. As AndyT said, he likes to do the parallel timbers together, which is to my mind the best way of knowing they're right. So what I did was put all the posts together and lined up the marks at one end;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2757.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2757.jpg.html)
I'm not overly concerned about them being dead in line to a thou or two as this is a bit of rustic garden furniture, so tolerances are fairly loose. I then look at how the other ends line up;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2758.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2758.jpg.html)
You can probably see that they don't line up perfectly, and this would probably not be acceptable for a piece of fine cabinet work, but I'm happy to leave these as they are till I've cut the tenons. The two main reasons for error/difference is my own cack handedness (I know, hard to believe, but possible!) or it could be down to some twist,wind,spring,bow, etc etc in the wood. The fact that the distances between the marks seem unequal makes me lean toward the former. If the marks, particularly for the middle post, were higher or lower it might be more likely to be the wood.
Now for the beams, line up the tenons at one end and, oops ;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2759.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2759.jpg.html)
That's a bit outside tolerance, even for me! So, lay out all the bits again,
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2760.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%202/_DSC2760.jpg.html)
no need for levelling here, and only an "eyed in look' for square. Place the parts together lining up all the marks and then measure between the posts. It was fairly obvious the top of the right hand post was a good 1/2 - 3/4" out of where it should be. I think it got knocked a bit during yesterday's marking up/out. Obviously the bricks weren't up to holding everything together well enough. (in case you're wondering what the bricks were for, they were to pin the posts onto the beams to restrict movement. This was a "traditional method" wot I invented cos my handy clamps weren't big enough to hold the timbers together
Once I'd put it back where it should be I could re-mark the end of the mortice and job done! In my way of working I find it best to check everything a good few times before committing myself to hewing and sawing. It doesn't prevent all mistakes, but brings the number of them down to managable levels
-
Oooohhh. you are setting up a procution line! I try to enjoy sometimes making one joint at a time. Only if timber is dimenssionally true I mark and cut several. But I'm such a sissy hobbyist :lol:
I enjoy our writing style.
Pekka
-
Oooohhh. you are setting up a procution line! I try to enjoy sometimes making one joint at a time. Only if timber is dimenssionally true I mark and cut several.
Pekka
Timber, dimensionally true? I've never seen dimensionally true timber in our wood-yards :scratch:.
I knew it, I've always suspected it, the Finns only sell us the stuff they wouldn't use themselves :(.
Too flipping clever these Finns :thumbup:
-
Nooooooooooo :lol:
We sell the good stuff to Denmark and use the bad one. On british carpentter (workked here few years) told that the same quality wood is cheapper in Uk than here in Finland. I beleive that.
That treated wood is usually too crapy to be used anywhere else....that's then treated and it sells like scoutgirlcookies.
I have managed to get half decent wood here, but I have to gou out with trailer about 400 km north and find someone who does sawmilling for good time's sake.
And "dimenssionally stable" is all relative. I have some birtch plank, that has been cut 20 years ago and then been stacked some time. I use some of every now and then. I'll cut wayne sides off and cut it shorten then bring it inside for few months before using it....but wood is another matter. if you need quarantees - you need to buy a toaster.
Pekka
-
I lived in Sweden for a few years and, although I was surrounded by forests, the wood from a diy store was about twice the price in Sweden compared with buying in a diy store in the UK.
Mike
-
Nooooooooooo :lol:
We sell the good stuff to Denmark and use the bad one.
if you need quarantees - you need to buy a toaster.
Pekka
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I bet there's a lot of Danes, sitting around drinking their fizzy beer :beer: and telling everyone the wood they buy is rubbish too, then they will smile at each other knowingly and wink!
Damn clever these Danes :thumbup:
-
Morning all.
Well another day dawned, It rained last night and some damp seems to have got into the workshop;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2763.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2763.jpg.html)
Luckily I threw a tarp over the timber, so it shouldn’t be too wet, (well no wetter than it was when I got it from the wood-yard {when I say wood-yard, I actually mean a car-park down the local hardware store, not a proper wood-yard![when I say hardware store, I actually mean a branch of a well known money-removal chain with the initials TP, not a proper hardware store!]})
Anyway, where were we? Oh yes, looking back over the previous posts I noticed I was starting to sound like a teacher and getting into a lot of possibly pointless detail. Please chip in and tell me if I’m being boring or irrelevant, though try and be gentle about it.
Todays progress, a tenon and a lap-joint have been part completed (I’m sure it’s not called a lap -joint, surely a “lap joint” has subdued lighting and shiny poles everywhere!)
Firstly I clamped the post to my “workbench”, not having a good vice I used some clampy things. I discovered it best to have the long arms of the clamps going under the bench, not out where your legs are (ouch). Clamping as close to the bit you’re going to cut seems to be a good idea, but a bit tricky with long bits of wood if you want them upright.
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2765.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2765.jpg.html)
So I had to lay this down a bit further than in the photo, I didn’t want it flat ‘cos I wanted it at an angle to see the marked lines at the top and the side. This meant I could line the tenon saw up;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2767.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2767.jpg.html)
Then I sawed at an angle till the hole (kerf?) had got down to the line marked for the shoulder of the tenon;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2769.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2769.jpg.html)
For this bit I was using a “rip cut” tenon saw, which seems to be working well “along the grain”. I bought this from a well known “Carpet Warehouse” (see if you can work out which shop I mean here!) a few years ago, like with most of my tools, it’s been lying around and attracting the “tin worm”.
I cut both sides (cheeks?) of the tenon and turned the wood round and came in from the other side, leaving a “v” shaped bit in the middle;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2770.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2770.jpg.html)
The last bit I did was cut “square” trying not to go past my marked “shoulder” line;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2771.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2771.jpg.html)
Nextly I cut square across the wood, using a hardpoint “tenon saw” which has a “cross cut”, this seems to be easier “across the grain”. I tried my best to get the lines and the blade vertical, and “eyed down” the blade to get it straight;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/_DSC2785.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/_DSC2785.jpg.html)
And “bam! Roberts your father’s brother”, “job done, one slightly wobbly sided tenon;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2774.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2774.jpg.html)
To be continued……
-
Now it was time for the “lap joint”. First I clamped the timber to the “workbench” (If you’re making a nice bit of furniture, make sure the bench is dry and the moss has been brushed off!).
Then I eyed up the cross-cut saw along the line, trying to remember to cut “inside the lines”, and then started sawing. I tried holding the saw with the handle lower than the blade, so that I could see when I got to the line. then I carefully got the saw level and cut down looking to see that I hadn’t gone too far on the other side. I then cut the other end of the joint and sawed across the middle too. This seems a good idea, so that the “chunks” I knock out with the chisel aren’t too big, and don’t take wood away wot should stay in the timber, innit! (sorry, lapsing into yoof speak there).
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2776.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2776.jpg.html)
Once this was done I rolled the timber on its side, with the joint away from me, so that I could whack it with a big chisel and mallet. I did it this way round so that the chunks of wood would fly off into the beloved’s flower pots and not anything important I may have below the waist (I’m sure they’ll come in handy some day, just like all my other unused tools!). I had the bevel of the sharp end toward me in the hope that this will stop the chisel diving into the wood;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2778.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2778.jpg.html)
BISH, BASH, BOSH, A few applications of the hitting stick to the chisel and there’s chunks of wood in the dahlias and a right old mess in the hole! When I got nearer to the line, I turned the chisel round, so the flat edge was nearer the bottom of the hole and bashed a little bit softer. I only bashed out to about halfway through this side, I think next time I’ll stop a bit further from the line and come back to it later;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2779.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2779.jpg.html)
Then I flipped the wood over, bashed in with the chisel from the other side, leaving a little “hillock” in the middle. Lastly I turned the wood “flat” and shimmied in with the chisel by hand, using a “wiggling” motion, this seems to work better than forcing it or using the hitting stick;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2783.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2783.jpg.html)
As you can see from the piccie below, I’ve sawed down a bit too far and probably bashed out a bit too much wood, not sure if I need more saw cuts in the middle of the wood, or less bashing! (probably both). I was also a bit unnerved to see that I’d missed a mark, and thought I must have cut across the wood at an angle;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2781.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2781.jpg.html)
However checking with the square showed that I had cut across the wood reasonably well, meaning I’d drawn the line in the wrong place. Can’t have been squaring the square, square across the wood very well, had we then!;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2780.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2780.jpg.html)
The edges of the joint weren’t particularly vertical, but hopefully this’ll all come out in the wash, when I fit the joint and re-apply the sharp cutty thing (if that’s not mixing too many metaphors, synonyms, whatever!);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2782.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2782.jpg.html)
“Et Viola” (as the musicians say in France!), after much procrastination we have a part finished post.
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2784.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2784.jpg.html)
I’m going to cut one part of each joint on all the timbers first and then offer each one up to it’s opposite number before doing the next lot. Hopefully this’ll help me bodge all my mistakes into some semblance of “carpentry”.
Ooer, look, it’s lunch time already and all I’ve done is start cutting two joints, I better get on and stop blathering to you and get them joints done. (Lunch time! MMMMMMM, where’s that frying pan gone?)
-
I lived in Sweden for a few years and, although I was surrounded by forests, the wood from a diy store was about twice the price in Sweden compared with buying in a diy store in the UK.
Mike
Never been to Sweden, though I have been through it on the way to Norway. In Norway everything was three times the price it is in the UK, it even makes Switzerland seem cheap :clap:
What were you doing in Sweden? A mate of mine lived there for a while doing some arty stuff, he appears to have found a wife there. Did you get one of those too? :thumbup:
-
Aha, whilst cutting out the next “lap-joint” (oh hello…erm, what is your name? Susan. I couldn’t see your name badge…mind you I’m not sure where you’d put a name badge!)
Oh! Where was I, yes, the next lap joint. I cut two extra slots across this, about ½” apart. The wood chunks popped out very nicely from this and went all the way across so I didn’t have to turn it over to come in from the other side. I stopped a couple of mm above the line, then just pushed the chisel down vertically, this sliced the wood out easily and left a nice smooth surface at the bottom of the joint, I believe you need a nice sharp chisel for this;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2790.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2790.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2792.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2792.jpg.html)
Five tenons and two lap-joints done and still loads of time for doing the next bits, plus sitting down with a cup of tea (no hob-nobs though, the b****y apprentice scoffed the lot when I wasn’t looking!);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%203/_DSC2791.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%203/_DSC2791.jpg.html)
see you later!
-
Oooh, just sat down on the sofa for a minute to rest my eyelids and look, here we are three hours later. The “apprentice” wanted to go round the park for a walk with a couple of tennis balls, and as I’m sure any trades-people here will know, all he did was get into a fight and sit on his balls for a while! Won’t do any fetching or carrying that lad! Just need a cuppa, then I’ll pop out and see to the timber.
-
Coming along nicely Ross :thumbup:
/Peter
-
Ross
Nice work. I'll be sitting in the shade with a cool brew watching you work up a sweat. :D :)
Cheers :beer:
Don
-
Thanks for the comments guys. It's nice to hear a friendly comment when you're on your own in the "workshop".
-
I lived in Sweden for a few years and, although I was surrounded by forests, the wood from a diy store was about twice the price in Sweden compared with buying in a diy store in the UK.
Mike
Never been to Sweden, though I have been through it on the way to Norway. In Norway everything was three times the price it is in the UK, it even makes Switzerland seem cheap :clap:
What were you doing in Sweden? A mate of mine lived there for a while doing some arty stuff, he appears to have found a wife there. Did you get one of those too? :thumbup:
I already had a wife when I went there. Most Swedish men hanker after a placement in Brazil or Thailand to find a wife.
I was working in the match industry in Sweden.
Mike
-
Wow, Ross this is going to be a piece of art :thumbup:
:beer:
DaveH
-
I was working in the match industry in Sweden.
Mike
You were a matchmaker in Sweden, surely you found everyone else a wife then :)
-
“Ladies and Gentlemen, We interrupt the main feature for a brief intermission, choc-ices, Poppets and Kia-Ora can be bought from Gladys, who will come amongst you with her well stacked tray! Woodbines, Park Drive and Capstan Full Strength can be purchased from the Kiosk. We will be showing a public information film called ‘a brief review of the Power Craft 370W Bench Morticer”.
I’ve only used one of these things once before, so if anyone who knows what they’re doing can see the “stupids” I’m doing please chip in!!
Many a year ago a friend of mine suggested popping into Aldi/Lidl/Netto? as they had some carpentry stuff on sale, I’m sure nobody on here has ever been taken in by this reckless impulse☺.
So off we popped and an hour or two later and despite my usual desire to buy the best kit I can get, I came home with a bench morticer, table saw, compound mitre saw, a set of morticer “chisels” and a set of dowels and £120 less in the bank. Anyway most of this has been placed in the “climate controlled store” till such time as it may come in handy, that’s it in the box under the generator;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/mortiserstores.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/mortiserstores.jpg.html)
Having been asked to do this log-store thingy, I thought “aha” the time of handiness has come, so out it got shifted.
Somehow it seemed to be in good nick and this is what you get;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/mortiserinstall.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/mortiserinstall.jpg.html)
A lump of metal and some bits ‘n’ bobs, loose or in bags, including one 5/16 “chisel”. It has Omega-Wolf Ltd on the label and is made in China. This may be a successor in name to Wolf, the old British Machine-Tool company who used to make very good industrial machine tools “back in the day”. It says the chisel range is 6-13mm and maximum drill size is 13mm.
You need to fit the fence, footie-holdie-woodie-down thing, piece of wood for the table wotsit, pull-the-thing-down handle and you get an extension piece/taper doo-dah (which they call a taper drift, but that aint wot I call a taper drift, one of them is wot you knock one of these out with surely, or am I thinking of a taper drift drift?) and spare chuck to use it as a bench drill. The machine itself is made of castings, as is the base and feels pretty solid and weighty. Not too bad for about 30quid thought I! There are four slots on the “foot plate” for a drill vice or similar and four mounting holes. BEFORE USE THIS MACHINE REALLY DOES NEED TO BE SECURED TO A STURDY WORKBENCH, YES, REALLY!”
Once (ahem) securely mounted on the machine bench!!!……..
“WARNING WARNING, don’t try this at home children, this man is a trained professional (admittedly not in a wood workshop!), and says he knows what he is doing! He may not necessarily follow best H&S or machinery practice to the letter!”
…..I attached the fence, the foot thingy and the wooden base-plate wotsit. The instructions are okayish but not overly clear, the machine already had the fence guide fitted which was not how the instructions had it.
Having loosely put this together I tried to square the fence up to the two pillars that the morticer moves up and down on;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Morticer/_DSC2812.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Morticer/_DSC2812.jpg.html)
I found that the guide that the fence moves in and out on has a fair bit of slop and if you’re a perfectionist, you’ll have to square the fence every time you move it, plus I doubt whether it’ll stay square when used. The travel on the fence is locked with a lifty-handley thing and the foot wotsit is adjusted and locked by a turney-wheel handle. Having tried it, I think they would be better the other way round, but they have different thread sizes so can’t be. You need to get more force on the foot to hold the wood down, particularly when withdrawing the chisel after the first cut. After the first cut, the wood grips onto the chisel quite hard and lifts with the chisel, pushing the foot back up. As it is, I had to lean down hard on the timber and pull the handle up, or apply a mallet! The motion is also very stiff and you have to put a lot of force on the handle to move it down, or pull it out of wood. This may be because it doesn’t have a normal spring, but a piston-rod-thingy like on the hatch-back of a car.
It has a depth-stop(?) Which you need to set by rule-and-eye or by lowering the mortice chisel to the required depth, but it’s a bit tricky as I can find no lock for setting the lowered morticer at a fixed height. I also first set this by eying through to the body casting, which is where I thought it would contact, but found a panel on the base of the casting actually touched the stop first;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Morticer/_DSC2817.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Morticer/_DSC2817.jpg.html)
Unfortunately this is all a bit irrelevant, as the depth-stop(?) does not bite onto the pillar very well. The amount of force required to lower the machine and cut into the wood is so high that the depth stop will slide down the pillar when the morticer gets to it. I found I had to lean down to look at the depth-stop to see when the casing came to it, cos I had it on a low bench. The low bench was an advantage as I had to lean on the handle very hard to get it to work, the handle is made of thin-walled tubing held by a small screw and I’m concerned as to how well it will stand up to the force placed on it.
Next thing I did was mount the chisel. This is a squared hollow piece of steel, machined to have four sharp points and sharp edges to cut a “square hole”into the wood, there is an auger bit up the middle to cut most of the wood out. I was using the largest bit, 19mm which is (ahem!) bigger than specified (oops!) But it came in the set wot were on sale in the same shop from the same brand!!!. This may have caused some issues, which smaller chisels won’t, so bear this in mind when reading this review.
Due to clearance issues, I could not put the chisel in followed by the auger, so I put them both in together pushing them up using my finger tip, as stated in the instructions, there’s probably a much safer way of doing this! Please someone tell me!
I realised I had to open the Jacob’s chuck first as the auger shank was pretty thick. The chuck itself is fully enclosed in the casting, and there are two “windows” you can open to tighten and loosen the chuck with a “safety key”. However it’s very easy to leave the key in the chuck as it can stick in the window. Remember “EITHER THE CHUCK’S IN THE HAND OR THE BOX, NEVER LEAVE IT IN THE B****Y CHUCK OR YOU”LL BE B****Y SORRY!” as an instructor I know is fond of saying;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Morticer/_DSC2815.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Morticer/_DSC2815.jpg.html)
The chisel itself is held in the collar of the machine with a hex socket screw and “Allen Key”;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Morticer/_DSC2814.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Morticer/_DSC2814.jpg.html)
There doesn’t seem to be anywhere to clip the key to the machine, which is a bit of a pain, however the chuck key can be clipped to one or other of the windows. When you drop the “Allen Key” under the bench, which you will do, often, this is an excellent opportunity to find all those other little wotsits you couldn’t seem to find earlier☺;
I think the chisel should be squared to the fence; sliding the fence forward and setting it to the front face of the foot thingy could do this;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Morticer/_DSC2813.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Morticer/_DSC2813.jpg.html)
Mind you this showed up another problem; the footy thing slides down in front of the fence, this means you can’t get the chisel closer to the fence than about 19mm, ¾”. If you’re doing smaller mortices you may want to have a smaller gap to the fence and can’t. I thought you may want to put some hardwood, nylon or something on the fence, either side of the footy thing to do this. You could use carpet tape or glue to do this, but there are no holes in the fence to screw something to the face. You’d have to do this yourself. If I’m missing an obvious trick here please tell me, (gently of course).
It was now time to get the thing going, smoke was plumbed into the machine through a piece of electric string via a standard 3 pin plug and the start button was pressed. The machine has a start button and stop button, the start button being guarded by raised edges, the stop button not, which is a “safety feature. At this point I realised I’ve probably set the thing up wrongly. I think the auger should be inserted quite far into the chisel, but I seem to have pushed it in too far. With the power on the motor hummed but did not turn the auger. It was fouling inside the chisel. I stopped and restarted the motor and there were some grindy, crunchy noises and then it seemed to run smoothlyish. Have I missed a trick here? Or is this a normal bedding-in process. Should I have locked the chisel in place first and then dropped the auger a tad, or is there some quick way of setting a clearance?
I then applied some brute force to a piece of treated pine (CLS?). This is where I found you need a lot of force on the lever and you definitely need to have the thing bolted down to a solid bench. There is a lot of resistance in the mechanism, which may be simple to “fettle” out but I haven’t had time to look into that. This may have been in some point due to using too large a chisel, but it was very stiff even before the chisel got to the wood. I can’t see the auger pulling the chisel through the wood with the current set up. The working surface is quite small and there are no outriggers. You’ll need to have supports for wood of any length. I also realised that if you were going to put this on a smaller bench, you’d probably benefit from pre-drilling mounting holes at each end and the middle of the bench and maybe using wing-nuts to secure it. You can then easily move it around for longer lengths of wood. I SUGGEST YOU DON’T GET TEMPTED INTO USING IT WITHOUT SOME FORM OF SECURING! Also; THE CHUCK KEY SHOULD ALWAYS BE IN YOUR HAND OR IN THE TOOL BOX, NEVER LEAVE IT IN THE CHUCK!!
To sum up: This is not a serious machine for serious carpentry. It seems to be suitable for light craft-work and occasional use. It is limited to a13mm cut. It is a pretty solid machine, which could be much improved if you’re a good fettler. I think it needs a certain amount of fettling out of the box to be usable or safe, but that may be because this one has been in storage for a few years. I’m not sure if these things are on sale at the moment, but this sort of thing comes around every so often in Aldi/Netto/Lidl (still can’t remember which one!). Also I’m sure idiots like me are putting them on ebay now and again.
“Ladies and Gentlemen, please return to your seats as the main feature is about to start. Gladys also asks that the young gentlemen in the back row stop pinching her Kia-Oras or she’ll give ‘em a right what for!”
-
Wow, Ross this is going to be a piece of art :thumbup:
:beer:
DaveH
Ta Dave :)
-
Hennyway (as they say in Croydon!)
I’d completed all the tenons on the front frame pieces and cut the lap-joint (“I say sir, how much for a gin and tonic!? When I wandered in here I was thinking it was like any other normal pub!”).
I thought I’d fit the lap-joint first and then offer all the other tenons up to see if I’d got anywhere near with the marks for the mortices. First thing I noticed was that it wouldn’t fit together straight away, which I think is a good thing, apparently it’s harder to put wood back on with a chisel than take it off, so if anything I’d tried to cut “inside my lines” As I’m not particularly good at holding the saw “square or plumb” or following the line.
I got out the chisel and pushed down, shaving the “sides” of the joint, particularly where I could see I was inside my marked line;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/lap%20joint%20and%20offering%20up/_DSC2794.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/lap%20joint%20and%20offering%20up/_DSC2794.jpg.html)
I kept doing this to see if the joint would fit and tried to look at which “face?” of the joint was wider. Whilst doing this I somehow remembered some good advice wot a “proper chippie” had told me ages ago. Instead of offering the joint, open hole to open hole;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/lap%20joint%20and%20offering%20up/_DSC2793.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/lap%20joint%20and%20offering%20up/_DSC2793.jpg.html)
I did each one at a time, offering the joint up to the “back” of the joint, i.e. the other side of the timber, where it was whole. With doing this I got the two to match up and they slid together as a firm sliding fit, but I did have to resort to the hitting stick to get it all the way in, but this was “tapping it” and not “bashing” it. The last time did this I think I offered the joints up face to face and ended up with somewhere to park my bicycle!
As I said, it went together with a bit of force and I’m quite chuffed with how it turned out. No big gaps;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/lap%20joint%20and%20offering%20up/_DSC2795.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/lap%20joint%20and%20offering%20up/_DSC2795.jpg.html)
That looks pretty square to me;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/lap%20joint%20and%20offering%20up/_DSC2797.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/lap%20joint%20and%20offering%20up/_DSC2797.jpg.html)
And the front faces seem fairly level;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/lap%20joint%20and%20offering%20up/_DSC2799.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/lap%20joint%20and%20offering%20up/_DSC2799.jpg.html)
Next up, putting the frame loosely together to check the joints against each other, before committing to more “butchery”;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/54c75e74-b482-4926-abf5-3caadcb0d24a.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/54c75e74-b482-4926-abf5-3caadcb0d24a.jpg.html)
I’d put a wee bit of effort into levelling the frame, with some (ahem) off-cuts (okay, they’re going to be the side beams and braces, but let’s not worry about mere details here);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/54c75e74-b482-4926-abf5-3caadcb0d24a.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/54c75e74-b482-4926-abf5-3caadcb0d24a.jpg.html)
The bottom “beam” and middle “post” were fairly square so I used these as my “reference”. I put the top “beam” across and the side posts, trying to match tenons to mortice marks, this was a bit tricky as I haven’t followed standard practice here. Normally (or at least when building a house or barn!) the posts have tenons at each and the beams mortices. As I have little legs underneath the bottom beam (floor plate?) the mortices are in the bottom of the posts. This means I’ll have to slide the top beam across when checking each joint.
Once I’d sorted out where the bits went, I thought I’d just check the top beam for “square”;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2802.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2802.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2801.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2801.jpg.html)
I’m not sure how clearly the electric Daguerreotype shows it, but you can probably see that there’s something not right here and it looks like the top beam is bowed.
“Ladies and Gentlemen, we have another brief intermission, the feature will restart presently, young gentlemen in the back row, if Gladys comes in here once more telling me what you are doing, we will have to remove you from the theatre!”
I tried to use the square the other way round to check the beam too and then started to think the square wasn’t! So I went to check the square.
An Engineer told me (“before he died, tiddy boom, tiddy boom, tiddy boom!”), that a quick way to check a square was this, Get a nice straight bit of desk or something, hold the stock of the square to the edge of it, firmly and mark a line up the “blade,rule, long-bendy-thingy;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2803.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2803.jpg.html)
Flip it over and check to see if the blade-wotsit follows the line,
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2804.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2804.jpg.html)
If it does, it’s fine, if not it’s time for them “fettling” files, or if you have a fixed square, you’ll need what I think AndyT refers to as a “Birmingham screwdriver”. This square seemed okay for government work, so I went off back to the “workshop”.
“Ladies and Gentlemen please regain your seats as the main feature is about to restart, YOU LOT IN THE BACK ROW GET OUT NOW OR I’LL HAVE THE ROZZERS ON YA!”
Just going out for a walk with the apprentice and his aunty. I’ve just had a chat with the neighbour over the fence, so I’d better get on with the work soon and stop blathering with you. See you later, byeee.
-
Hello again peeps! It’s all gone a bit quiet out there, have I bored you all or have you all gone to work or else found something useful to do instead?
Please just say hello now and again as it’s getting a bit lonely in the “workshop”. The only company I get is “the apprentice” and his aunty, and they don’t pop in much, and when they do they just end up shouting at the neighbours!
I’ve come on a bit since I last blathered on so let’s see where we are then. Oh yes, tenons and lap-joint done. I think I laid the frame out again and this gave me the opportunity to check all the marks were lining up etc, I seem to find the more times I check, the more mistakes I find, I suppose that’s better than finding the mistakes after sharp thing hits wood! I’d had a bit of a problem trying to square the top beam about the top of the middle post, cos the beam was bowed and I found there was a bit of deformity in the post too. What I needed, thought I, was a big Austrian, so I popped out to the porch and found him hanging around in a corner behind several years worth of cobwebs. this is the big Austrian here;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Morticer/_DSC2844.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Morticer/_DSC2844.jpg.html)
I call him the big Austrian (TBA) because…well, he’s over six foot tall and from Austria. (He’s also fairly well built, spends most of his time leaning against walls and seems pretty quiet and miserable, but I don’t mention that to his face!)
I squared off TBA at the middle post;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Morticer/_DSC2806.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Morticer/_DSC2806.jpg.html)
…and then lined everything up. I could now check the mortices against the end of the tenons and see whether I needed to adjust owt. This one seems okay, so I marked it with a tick (just need to remember what that means when cutting!);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Morticer/_DSC2810.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Morticer/_DSC2810.jpg.html)
I then started making chips and dust with the morticer as mentioned somewhere earlier, resulting in;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Morticer/_DSC2820.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Morticer/_DSC2820.jpg.html)
Just like wot a proper chippie might do with an auger and chisel, only rougher and about twice as slow, I might get quicker with practice!
I’m making the mortices three “chisels” long, cos the chisel is about a third of a timber-width square and I think there’s generally a “rule of thirds” or something when doing mortice and tenons, well it makes sense to me! The mortices at the end of the beam are two “chisels” long, as the end of the beam is going to be flush with the side of the post. I don’t want the end or “sides,edges?” of the tenons showing so all these mortices are “blind?” is that the word?, well they don’t go through the whole timber anyway. This doesn’t leave much “end grain” in the beam, but I’m hoping that won’t be a problem.
Brrrr, Graunch, Whizz, not many minutes later, all the mortices are done. Next step, fitting the tenons into the holes, or is it fitting the holes around the tenons?
For this I was going to use two chisels, bevel edge ones. Here’s one I’d prepared earlier;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2826.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2826.jpg.html)
…and one I hadn’t;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2825.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2825.jpg.html)
This is me realising the thinner one probably wasn’t up to todays job!;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2823.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2823.jpg.html)
The second one is essentially as it came when new (these had had the “secondary bevel” cut at the factory, possibly with a mill file!!), apart from where I’d been bashing some wood with a nail in it or something, I think that was when I was “easing” the old back door frame out a couple of years back. You can also see how well I keep my tools from this shot!! (okay, I admit it, it was a bit shinier when I got it. It was also lacquered, but I came up with some good reason to strip that off. B******d if I can remember what that reason was now, I even stripped off the numbers wot told me how wide they were! It had better be a b****y good reason is all I can say now!
And this is it after a couple of swipes across a sharpening stone (or two!);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2833.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2833.jpg.html)
I think the glint of sunlight off the “fettled” bit means it’s approaching “sharp enough” Here’s a shot in the shade showing it’s not quite as “sharpened” as it could be;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_chisel.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_chisel.jpg.html)
Next step was fitting the mortices to the tenons. Both chisels were reasonably sharp so only needed a firm push to shave the sides of the hole. I didn’t need to do much wiggling and took a little bit off at a time. As the auger in the morticer chisel was a bit proud of the edges of the chisel it had left ridges down the holes, so I only really needed to shave these plus a bit extra on some, depending on how badly I’d butchered the tenon. I felt it better to shave the holes than the tenon as there was more wood in the mortice lump of wood than in the tenon, though someone who knows what they’re doing may wish to chip in here with better advice.
Most of the mortices were “long?” enough to not need the “ends” shaved, which was lucky, as the thin/narrow? Chisel was a very tight squeeze in the hole. (eight Swedish chisels, all in metric! All exactly the wrong size for any proper work!!!).
I’m making a rustic store, so I’m letting most of the tenons go full width of the timber. If I was more concerned with neatness, I might make the holes (mortices) less long/wide? And shave a tad off the “edges?” of the tenons. I think this might make the joint look a bit better.
“Oh! You’re here then!!” This is the “apprentice” again;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2835.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2835.jpg.html)
He’d taken me for a walk round the park earlier, found one of his balls he’d lost in the fight yesterday and was most pleased to have a pair again! And then, like most apprentices, mooched off when he was needed and couldn’t be found (I’m sure any trades-people here know exactly what I’m talking about!). This photo was approaching lunch-time and he’d come to the workshop looking for some Hobnobs. I’d just asked him to clamp summat up with the handy clamp, he looked down at it, then up at me and said “Wot! Me! With my thumbs, you know I aint gonna be doin’ that!!”
I think it’s time to rest my eyes again, I’ll be back a little later, remember to say hello if you’re still interested.
-
Oh yes I am still interested!
It will be a well built log store that one. Not many nails or screws needed and still I think it will be well sturdy enough for use.
/Peter
-
Oh yes I am still interested!
It will be a well built log store that one. Not many nails or screws needed and still I think it will be well sturdy enough for use.
/Peter
Thankyou Peter :thumbup:
-
Can't speak for anyone else, but I think you have a great writing style and a good subject.
Butchering the brown stuff has always been a black art to me, you are making it fun to learn.
I will be watching avidly.
Tony
BTW. Great work so far!
-
Butchering the brown stuff has always been a black art to me, you are making it fun to learn.
Tony
BTW. Great work so far!
Thanks Tony. The current day job involves making iron filings and swarf, so I'm used to a certain amount of stability in the material. With wood, particularly pine that's been left out in the rain, you can actually see it move before your eyes! That creates a different set of rules when trying to fit bits of it together. Glad you're enjoying it.
-
Ross
You and the apprentice seem to be making good progress. I also like your writing style. :clap: :clap:
I know what you mean about the difference in stability between metal and wood. Sometimes it can be very frustrating. :bang: :bang:
Cheers :beer:
706
-
Hello people
I have just joined this site and am planning to build a timber framed log store for the lady next door. This is Mark 1 which I made for our house;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/_DSC2725copy.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/_DSC2725copy.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/_DSC2724copy.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/_DSC2724copy.jpg.html)
I need to rethink the front row of shingles to make them more robust and try to improve the quality of the joints. She'd also like it to be wider so I'm going to make two bays instead of one (or at least fake it with a middle post).
These are my plans, which should be good enough to make a cutting list and get the job done;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/logstorecopy.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/logstorecopy.jpg.html)
If anyone can see any flaws or omissions please tell me.
I'm thinking of making all the joints in traditional British Timber frame style, pegged with wooden dowel. It'll be made of pressure treated pine with the odd screw maybe and nails, but no glue. I'm yet to think about chopping all the mortices by hand or possibly using a bench mortiser. There's also the option of using a brace and bit or Mr Makita. I'm in two minds whether to go the full hog and do everything with mandraulics or give in to modernity and use the mighty electron!
I admire the professionalism in your freehand sketches, and I should know. Very nice.
Mosey
-
Ross
You and the apprentice seem to be making good progress. I also like your writing style. :clap: :clap:
706
Thanks again Don. Being from where you are, you may at least understand some of the "British" humour. I'm rather hoping most people are missing some of the jokes, they'd be chasing me out of here with a big stick! :wack:
-
I admire the professionalism in your freehand sketches, and I should know. Very nice.
Mosey
Thanks for the comment Mosey :thumbup:, I did cheat a bit by doing the sketch freehand in pencil first and then put the ink and marker on after though. I think I prefer sketching straight in biro.
It sounds like you do a bit of sketching yourself, care to elaborate!
Here's a cartoon I did for my brother last week if you're interested in that sort of thing (If any Greeks are watching, please note this is done with much admiration and not intending to offend!);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Boris/IcarusAir.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Boris/IcarusAir.jpg.html)
-
Now, then youngsters, I popped downstairs to get on with the wotsit, but noticed we’d got more damp in the “workshop”;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2869.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2869.jpg.html)
I think it’s also spreading near the “climate controlled” storeroom;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2868.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2868.jpg.html)
Thought I’d have to look into that before carrying on, but decided to turn the heater on instead, to see if that’ll dry it out.
In the meantime, I’ll just “develop” some more photos to show you where I’d got to. I’m running ahead on the work now and I’ll forget where I am if I’m going to keep you lot up to date!
-
Hello again chums, I’ve just got the photos off the dryer, so I can show you a bit more progress.
I seem to remember that I’d “fitted” the holes (sorry, mortices) to the tenons. The next step was fitting the tenons to the h..mortices.
Due to variations in cack-handedness, some of the tenons needed a minor tap with a hitting-stick, some were push fits and a couple had associated “priest holes” and plopped in with no help at all. I’ll have to knock up a bit of “wooden shim” to cover those up before the “roundheads” pop round to check.
Remember, as I’m trying to fit each joint separately, this is a bit time consuming, but I’m learning a lot. I started this job Monday, it’s Saturday now and the total time of wood-bashing has been less than an hour (possibly not more than 10 minutes!). Hopefully the back frame will go together a lot quicker.
First off, offer the tenon up to the mortice and simply insert (as the chippie said to the Bishop☺). Making sure that the timbers are level and square. As I’ve made the tenons long (“It’s easier to take the wood off with a saw than put it back on, so err on the side of caution” I seem to remember being told at night school!), they don’t go all the way and I’ve marked the tenon where it meets the face of the other timber;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2827.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2827.jpg.html)
What I’m trying to do here is make the tenon fit the hole as fully as possible (“ooh-er missus I don’t know if I’ll be able to achieve that” says Justin Welby, Grief, I just hope he isn’t watching!). As the joint is going to be pegged, I want as much “end-grain” on the tenon as I can get, so that it doesn’t get “torn out”. Nextly I transferred the marked line down a bit to give me a line to cut the end off. I’m using a rule for this, but you don’t need anything so modern, a bit of stick would do. What I did was hold the rule so that one end was on the marked line, I then marked where this met the end of the tenon;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2828.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2828.jpg.html)
I’m using some “milling engineer’s adhesive setting shim” here. (If any “millers’ are watching, I’m using the stuff in the green packets, a true professional uses the blue packets!). Then I just slide the rule down to where it touches the “shoulder” of the tenon and mark where the “shim” has got to;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2829.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2829.jpg.html)
I did this both ends of the line, and ruled across between the marks (I think I had a good reason for this at the time but I'm not sure if I got it right now). I could have squared across, but then I’d have to mark from the bit of the line closest to the tenon shoulder Then I marked where the waste was and cut the end off the tenon. REMEMBER, CUT ACROSS THE LINE CLOSEST TO THE END OF THE TENON, NOT THE LINE YOU DREW FIRST! Don’t ask me how I know this!
-
Haunched Tenon: For the end of the “beam” I was going to put one of these in the top of the post, so that it was secure and you wouldn’t see much “choppery-pokery”. I’ve since had a look in me books and all the pictures of these look different to mine! Hey-ho, with any luck no-one’s going to be poking around in there to see (and if they are I’m gonna have to tell Father O’Reilly to scarper sharpish first!).
I offered the tenon up to the mortice. I’d left this the full width of the timber, as I can’t remember where I’ve left me glue! Then I marked the width of the h…mortice onto the end of the tenon, remembering to hatch the bit I didn’t want,;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2830.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2830.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2831.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2831.jpg.html)
Next I cut the spare bit off the tenon and I shaved the inside of the mortice as close as any barber round our way(something for the weekend sir?). The picture shows another mortice, these ones aren’t so long remember;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2822.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2822.jpg.html)
I could now wiggle the bit of the tenon to see if it would fit in the hole. It was a bit too long/wide? So I shaved a smidge off with the big Swede (I call him that because he’s bigger than the other chisel…….and he’s from Sweden. (Great people the Swede’s, but Cross & Blackwell call them Rutabagans?);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2832.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2832.jpg.html)
Nextly, I bunged the wood in the hole, marked a line, chopped the end off and hey Presto, job done (speaking of which, I’ve not seen a Presto for ages, probably gone the same way as Lyon’s cornerhouse!).
I could now stick the whole thing together to see where I’d gone wrong so far;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2838.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2838.jpg.html)
Now then, some of you lot weren’t watching properly when I made my lap-joint (“pay to leave? What do you mean I’ve got to pay to leave? This is the oddest pub I’ve ever been in, and some of those girls over there are going to catch their death of cold!”), were you? One of you at least could have told me I’d cut a hole in the wrong side of the bottom beam couldn’t you? I was b****y chuffed with that joint too. Never mind, they say pride always precedes a fall, shoulda been paying attention me’self I suppose.
Anyway, I’m still reasonably pleased with all the joints and there’ll be some bodging I can do to save the day with the bottom beam;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2836.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2836.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2837.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2837.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2840.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2840.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2841.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2841.jpg.html)
Think I’ll tell Toni it’ll look nice with a lick of paint on, it’s only knotty old carcassing after all, so at the end of the day it’s not supposed to be seen anyway.
Ooh it looks like the heater’s dried out the workshop so I can go and start sorting out me braces. “about time too” says the beloved “you’ve been wandering around all week with your trousies round your knees, with you’re a*** hanging out and your Jockey shorts on display, you look like a flippin teenager you do!”
TTFN See you later.
-
Ross,
I recently retired from architectural practise after 50 years and now paint watercolors full-time when not in the shop. I'll be painting in Oxford in 2 weeks. See you there. Also did some cabinet-making.
Mosey
-
Hi Ross,
Still here, looking and learning although most of it is well beyond my capabilities :scratch:
My prowess to wood work is the "Two S's" Saw it, Screw it and that's about it :)
:beer:
DaveH
-
Ross,
I recently retired from architectural practise after 50 years and now paint watercolors full-time when not in the shop. I'll be painting in Oxford in 2 weeks. See you there. Also did some cabinet-making.
Mosey
Ah, Oxford? Is something happening there, I'm new to the site so am not up on much yet? PeteW, if you're still watching can you fill me in?
It would be great to see you there. If you know anything about ink pen & wash, I'd love to learn that, I've just started using "magic markers" after a long break and I'm sure there must be an easier way to get things done!
-
Hi Ross,
Still here, looking and learning although most of it is well beyond my capabilities :scratch:
My prowess to wood work is the "Two S's" Saw it, Screw it and that's about it :)
:beer:
DaveH
Thanks for the appreciation. You're probably giving me too much credit re capabilities. I'm learning as much as you doing this, if not more! I've done a couple or three courses in wood-butchery and knocked up a few bits of stuff round the garden is all. Like most things in life, I think it's 80% confidence and 5% skill wot gets the job done. The other 15% is tea, hob-nobs and the manual! :coffee:
-
Yes, fond recall. Ice climbing, drinking beer, and nude hiking in the snow. I miss them.
-
Yes, fond recall. Ice climbing, drinking beer, and nude hiking in the snow. I miss them.
Hmmm, we have at least one hobby in common then :beer: I knew a chappie from Gateshead who liked Ice climbing, but being from Gateshead, he'd only put on a long sleeved shirt when the mercury froze in the thermometer. I'm not a climber, even though I lived in Sheffield for a while, where they're mad for it! I've walked up Snowden a few times, Ben Wyvis (not Nevis), that tall hillock in the Lake District and I did try hoisting myself up a string in the peaks at Stanage Edge. I can't even climb a ladder to clean the upstairs windows!
-
The chappie I knew was a chappette...Gunilla was her name, from northern Sweden. She taught me to swear as well, in Swedish. This makes me smile :beer: :) :)
Mosey
-
Ross
You and the apprentice seem to be making good progress. I also like your writing style. :clap: :clap:
706
Thanks again Don. Being from where you are, you may at least understand some of the "British" humour. I'm rather hoping most people are missing some of the jokes, they'd be chasing me out of here with a big stick! :wack:
That's the part I'm having trouble with...British humour. Can someone tell me how to tell when the humour part begins?? (note that I got the spelling right?)(humour) Since I'll be there for some weeks, I should know when you're funning me, right?
Mosey
-
“Ladies an’ Gennelmen, I’m afraid to say we’re going to have to interrupt the main feature once more, this is due to some unruly elements in the back row of the theatre, we will be sorting this out with some help from the local constabulary and appreciate your patience, Gladys will be coming round with some complimentary Gold Leafs for anyone who would care to partake, or she’ll let you have one of her poppets if you ask nicely! She’s that kind of girl. She will not be approaching the rear of the auditorium, as she says she will not be held responsible for her actions if someone else grabs her well-stacked tray. We will be playing a short public information film……”
Sorry about that, but the concentration wanders. I thought I’d give a couple of handy tips I’ve picked up.
I noticed there was a little bit of damp in the tool-box;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2871.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2871.jpg.html)
So I thought I’d sort it out before I needed a sledgehammer to separate the tools. Firstly I found an old rag, this is one of my wife’s from the washing basket;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2872.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2872.jpg.html)
she’s got loads so I’m sure she won’t miss it! Then I got some “Canadian Oil”. I call it “Canadian Oil” because it’s oil……and it comes from Canada;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2873.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2873.jpg.html)
You can tell it’s Canadian, because the label is in French and English, plus the top 95% is very lightly populated and all the oil seems to be going to the South! I’m sure this stuff is good because when I tried to look up the instructions they said “First, get yourself a C130 Hercules, a compressor and aboot three 55-gallon drums of ACF 50…” I kid you not! Try looking it up!
I then dried out the box with half of the rag (she really won’t miss it, I’m sure. I mean she’s got loads that look just like that hasn’t she?). Dried off all the contents and squirted a few drops of the oil onto the steel parts and tried to make sure every surface was well wiped over. With the block plane I made sure I dismantled it and dried and wiped all the bare surfaces with the oil. (crumbs, I’m gonna have to give that iron a quick swipe over a stone someday soon!). Apparently you don’t need to swamp everything with this, as a small amount goes a long way. The one thing to bear in mind, is if you are going to be working on anything that’s going to be glued, painted, or given a surface treatment, that you will need to clean off the oil with a solvent first. The oil can cause problems when using your tools on those things. You should now have a good oily rag, which you can use on your motorised bicycle, particularly if you leave it outside all year, like wot I do.
When trying to mark in from an edge, say like using a chisel as a guide, and you haven’t got a flat surface to lay the work on, as I am here;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2874.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2874.jpg.html)
particularly where the edge is relieved, rounded-over,mullered? I found that holding something flat, like the rule I’m using, flush to the surface/edge you’re marking up to, gives you something to rest the chisel against whilst marking your line on the opposite side.
If your workbench is ventilated like mine, being made of boards with gaps on it, don’t leave your chisels lying parallel to the “ventilation gaps”. They may roll off. I find laying them across-ways with the bevel down seems to be an advantage;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC2842.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC2842.jpg.html)
otherwise you may find this happens;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/_DSC28432.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/_DSC28432.jpg.html)
Now then, where did I stick them sharpening stones? I think they’re on top of the freezer in the larder.
I also discovered on my “workbench’ that I hadn’t driven all my fastenings fully home, into their nice countersunk or counter-bored holes;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/lap%20joint%20and%20offering%20up/_DSC2786.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/lap%20joint%20and%20offering%20up/_DSC2786.jpg.html)
I’ve a feeling this may possibly mark the bottom (lower face) of anything I’m working on. It seems a good idea to me, to check your work surface before doing anything important on it and best not assume things’ll be all right. So I attempted to remedy this by….. “introducing, Mr Makita”;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/lap%20joint%20and%20offering%20up/32f5cf37-1e12-4af8-8d08-50ca15d2af7a.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/lap%20joint%20and%20offering%20up/32f5cf37-1e12-4af8-8d08-50ca15d2af7a.jpg.html)
“ Dahh Da Dahh da…Mr Makita, he very tough, Mr Makita he very strong, Give him one charge and he lasts all day long…Dah da!” Unfortunately there was an issue with the pointy bit of the screw not quite wanting to go any further, ho-hum. I will admit I thoroughly recommend Mr Makita, well this one anyway. An excellent bit of kit, though you’ll have to sell your wife and apprentice to afford a new one. The only problem I've found with it is that although it has two LED "headlights", these illuminate the back of the chuck and you can't see the drill tip in the dark. However it's good for guiding you home from the pub at night if you have little or no street-lighting. I’m sure we’ll see him again
“Ladies n’ Gents, please regain your seats etc……Gladys how are you? are you sure? Can I get you a brown paper bag to breathe into?”
-
That's the part I'm having trouble with...British humour. Can someone tell me how to tell when the humour part begins?? (note that I got the spelling right?)(humour) Since I'll be there for some weeks, I should know when you're funning me, right?
Mosey
Ah, that's a bit tricky. I've been trying to explain this to my non-British friends for a while now. British English is a funny old language, some think it's quite precise, when in fact it isn't at all. In German, say, or other languages there may be only one or maybe two ways of saying something, such as "der Krankenwagen ist in meinem Blumentopf". In Britain we can say one thing about seven hundred different ways and often we don't mean what we've just said anyway. If a Brit says "this weather is nice isn't it" he could mean that the sun is shining and the sky is blue, or that it's a roaring typhoon. Another Brit can tell by a slight intonation of tone on one of the words, or whether an eyebrow has been raised, if you're not British I suggest you go look out the window to see which he means. Generally a Brit means what he says, or the complete opposite, so it leaves you with some guidelines. The only time you can be sure what a Brit is saying is when they ask "how are you", or "how do you do", We never mean this at all, we really don't want to know how you are feeling. If the Brit is a medical person and you are seeing them in a professional capacity then they do want to know. If you meet a medic off-duty, then they really really don't want to know!
It's very difficult to explain this properly to someone from overseas, so what I suggest is; if there can be no possibility that he can be joking, then he's probably not, at all other times carry a pocket full of cards around with you, one lot says "no I'm not joking" and the other says "Yes I am joking". Give one of each to everyone you meet before any conversation and ask them to hold the correct one up when you need clarification. I can't think of any other way, apart from having a trusted British friend with you at all times to interpret.
-
Aaahh, I've got it for sure now! When a Brit says anything, either he's joking or he's not. Perfect. So am I. Or not. Got it?
But more importantly, I understand that there are no differences in where you are, or where he's from. Especially the midlands. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
See you soon.
Mosey from Jersey (new)
-
Aaahh, I've got it for sure now! When a Brit says anything, either he's joking or he's not. Perfect. So am I. Or not. Got it?
But more importantly, I understand that there are no differences in where you are, or where he's from. Especially the midlands. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
See you soon.
Mosey from Jersey (new)
Mosey, you're starting to get it. (Is that New Jersey or Jawsey or Joisey? I've not quite got that one.)
There are, should we say, some subtle differences between the different parts of the UK, or UKoGBaNI as it is correctly known. Remember, over here 100 miles is a very long way, over there I believe 100 years to be a long time. I was chatting to some friends of mine from the Great Republic of Texas a while back, discussing Orkney, which is a group of Islands just off the top of the country. I mentioned to them that it was a part of Norway until quite recently. They said, oh yes, when was that? Oh about 1460 or so said I. They looked at each other slightly bemused for some reason.
It's easier to tell if someone is joking or not if you know where they're from. If they are from London and their mouth is open and there is noise coming out (which is about 99% of the time). They are joking. If they are from the North West of Scotland and their mouth is open and noise is coming out (which is about 1% of the time), they are definitely not joking. If they are from Newcastle or Gateshead and their mouth is open with noise coming out, you'd have to ask a Norwegian whether they are joking or not. If they come from Dundee and their mouth is open with noise coming out, no-one knows whether they are joking or not, even if the other person is from Dundee. If they are from the Midlands and their mouth is open with noise coming out, I couldn't tell you what was happening. I think they've been playing a joke on the rest of us for some time now! If they come from Yorkshire it doesn't matter whether they are joking or not, you will still have to pay for the beer. If they come from Liverpool, you'll have to record what they're saying and play it back at quarter speed to find out if they're joking. And if they come from Barnsley and their mouth is open with noise coming out, only William Shakespeare or Queen Elizabeth the first could tell you if they are joking or not!
Hopefully you've got that and you'll be funning like a native when you get here. Just don't tell a Welshman he's English, or a Scotchman, an Irishman or someone from Cornwall for that matter. I wouldn't confuse an Orcadian with a Scot either, but that's all another story. And finally, don't call us Europeans. Some of us love Europe, some of us hate it, but when we leave these miserable wet islands of ours we go TO Europe and then we come HOME when we come back!
-
Ross,
This is jolly.
It is Scotsman, isn't it?
I once had a Scotsman (McKenzie) for a client. He never said anythin. And when he did, it was always the same..."it's too much".
And he never joked. And we are still friends.
I'm going to work on this some more. I will affect an accent. Which would you suggest?
I spent 2 nights on a ship in Southampton harbor one time with about 8 Cockney longshoremen. We had alot of fun. And alot of beer. I don't think I understood anythin. They joked alot.
Cheers
It is jerrrsey here. We have lots of trees and cattle.
Mosey :wave:
-
As I said earlier, following advice from the beloved; “Just because you act like a teenager, it still doesn’t mean you should look like one”. I thought I’d better pop into the “workshop” to fix me braces.
So far I’ve somehow managed to make a bundle of sticks into some semblance of a square shape. Any “engineers” amongst you will realise that a “space frame” is not particularly rigid and benefits a lot from “triangulated bracing", to increase “torsional rigidity”. Braces are also b****y handy to stop you being sent up before the beak for indecent exposure in my experience!
I didn’t do these on the course at Weald and Downland so these are a bit new to me in the mortice and tenon form. I did lap-joint (Hello officer, can you help me out, this gentleman is trying to charge me for leaving this pub. What do you mean what’s my name? I don’t see why you need my name, this man is obviously in the wrong. What do you mean you’ve met my sort before? I’ll have you know I’m a High Court Judge and you b****y well know that, as you were giving evidence in Smith v Regina last week, WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU”RE ARRESTING ME FOR OFFENSIVE LANGUAGE TO AN OFFICER OF THE LAW!) braces, including a couple of dovetail ones in Mk 1. But I really want to do the other sort in this job. The braces will be fairly basic in form as the timber is straight. I’ll leave the curvey ones till later.
First thing, I loosely assembled the frame, face down, on some ceramic “levelling blocks”, which had lain dormant in the “workshop” for some time, one in each corner. Then I levelled the whole lot with pairs of wedges at each corner on the levelling blocks;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2852.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2852.jpg.html)
For some strange reason there’s a fair bit of “drop” across the floor, but there again I didn’t lay it (If I had we’d probably call it a staircase!). I used the “Short Israeli” for this as the “Big Austrian“ was in a strop. Plus, when I applied the “sash cramps”, it might cause problems having a six-footer lying about. As my cheapie “Carpet Warehouse” cramps are currently in someone else’s stables several miles away, along with my saw-stools, and tool box No 4, I had to improvise. This is probably more in keeping with the “classic style”. The garden twine was not up to the job so I had to use nylon and a few sticks;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2848.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2848.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2846.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2846.jpg.html)
This seemed to work well, pulling the joints tight(ish);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2851.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2851.jpg.html)
This is the “Short Israeli”;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2849.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2849.jpg.html)
I call him that ‘cos he’s shorter than the big Austrian…….and he comes from Israel, he’s pretty bright, modern and fairly well thought out, although the lines in his bubbles are a bit wonky. He also spends a lot of time leaning against walls with the Big Austrian. I’ve off-set him above the frame here ‘cos the sash-cramps were fouling the back face of the frame. I checked that these "offsets" were the same thickness to prevent(ish) errors. Then I eyed up across the timbers for “wind?”, or to check it was all flat as well as level;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2850.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2850.jpg.html)
Lastly I squared the frame with a "pointy stick";
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2859.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2859.jpg.html)
This is a stick.........with a point carved on the end;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2860.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2860.jpg.html)
The one I am using is a bit flimsy for this size of job (and also happens to be the hardwood peg supply!). But the one I’d made from batten appears to have done a “runner” over night (never should have carved a spoon in the end of it, and I haven’t a clue where one of the dishes has gone either?). If you’re really posh, you carve a point on two sticks and bung ‘em together with a rubber band! To use one of these, you base the assumption that a “squared rectangle” is equal in distance, corner to corner (generally I agree with the Pythagorians here, but I have some sympathy for the pre-Socratics, ‘cos I’ve been to East Anglia and it’s obvious the Earth is flat there, and there’s nothing like an argument between the Greeks, particularly when a lot of retsina’s been taken), However, I digress (and the magistrate said I can’t do that unless my wife agrees).
Ahem, let’s start again. If you’ve got a square shape and want to check all the sides are “square” 90 degrees in each corner, you can check this by measuring diagonally, corner to corner. If this measurement is equal, then the shape is square. Stick the point of your stick into one corner and measure to the diagonal corner, then do the other two corners. If the measurement is the same, then the shape is square. If one measurement is longer than the other, then bash or tap the corner inwards where the length is longest. Keep doing this till the measurement is equal. This only works, if the distance from one side of the shape to the other in both axis is equal………….Oh hang geometry, if you don’t know what I’m talking about by now, you’re as lost as I am, let’s go and do the braces. I just measured the b****y thing to check that the corners were all the same distance apart.
I had made up the length of the braces off the top of my head, when doing the plans earlier. These were based on the Mk 1 model, which seemed to work and I had made ‘cos they looked right. Someone who knows what they’re doing can say if there’s an ideal length for these. I tried to cut these timbers so that there were no knots at the ends as these would make the tenons very weak.
I’d made these about 20 inches long, so stuck ‘em in each top corner, using the “American Carpenter’s Square”, (I call it that ‘cos it was called a carpenter’s square.....and came from America!) to set them at a 45 degree angle;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2856.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2856.jpg.html)
I wanted to use as much of them as I could, but the most important thing was moving them up and down a bit to ensure that the mortices weren’t going to have knots in either. Once happy with the positions, I checked that they were the same distance from each corner, to be equal. Then I marked their positions on the rear side of the beam and uprights;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2857.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2857.jpg.html)
And cramped them up;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2858.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2858.jpg.html)
Having a slightly dry throat after a hard day in the “workshop”, I had a couple of glugs of cider (doesn’t it show). And I think it’s time for bed, so Nighty Night and I’ll see you in the morning.
-
Ross,
This is jolly.
It is Scotsman, isn't it?
I once had a Scotsman (McKenzie) for a client. He never said anythin. And when he did, it was always the same..."it's too much".
And he never joked. And we are still friends.
I'm going to work on this some more. I will affect an accent. Which would you suggest?
I spent 2 nights on a ship in Southampton harbor one time with about 8 Cockney longshoremen. We had alot of fun. And alot of beer. I don't think I understood anythin. They joked alot.
Cheers
It is jerrrsey here. We have lots of trees and cattle.
Mosey :wave:
Hiyay Mosey :wave: It's great chatting.
Well, some people say the man is Scots and the drink is Scotch, but in some places the man is Scotch too (in the West End of Glasgow the Scots men are half Scotch, but that's another story and probably going to get me into a lot of trouble!). In modern common parlance they're Scots. In Orkney they're Orcadian and not Scotch or Scots. The people used to be called Scotch as well as Scots, but it's gone out of fashion a long while now.
The McKenzies are from the same place as my mother's family! The Scots can actually be some of the most generous people you can meet, but often with their time and energy. Traditionally they were all "skint" so had nothing to give anyone, particularly the English! Is your friend called Kenneth by any chance?
I think it better to speak Jerrrsey (whether New or Noo), but if you can do Noo Yoik, that might be better (I've probably got that pronunciation wrong). Though Noo Joisey, or Jawsey, might be better still, that'd confuse us!
I work in Portsmouth, (Well Cosham really, remember 100 miles is a very long distance here), which is about 20 miles from Southampton. In effect that's another country, even if they're both in the same county! There's been a state of Cold War between the two for several centuries which gets hot at least once a year when The Saints play Pompey. :hammer:
It would be great to see you when you're here.
G*d Bless, I've gotta go to bed.
-
In my last post I’d got to the bit where the braces were cramped to the corners, (we could always start an argument now about whether I’d clamped ‘em or cramped ‘em, that’s why I think it’s easier to put a brick on top instead! I started with a pair of “handy clamps”, but I’m not sure now).
I’m noticing that the timber’s started moving about a bit now and it’s got me scratching my head a lot, as to how to cut the joints to minimise the gaps. As it’s a pegged job I can’t use the “cascamite-and-sawdust-inlay system”. Speaking of which, here’s a job I did a few years back, where I think the inlay shows the hand-cut dove-tails to fine advantage!;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2891-1.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2891-1.jpg.html)
I’m sure there’d be a proper way of doing this framing lark, but as you’re probably aware by now, I’m making this up as I go along! (The labourer down the wood-yard is the only person to notice this, but as his timber selection method is “Now then, I fink them bits at the top of the pile are wot he really wants”, I’m not sure I’d trust his wisdom completely. However, I suppose if I were hefting wood around all day myself, I couldn’t fault his logic. I’ll have to ask him if he’s an Aristotelian or a Boolean next time I’m down there!)
Enough digression (I told you love, it’s my gress not yours!).
Having marked the rear of the frames for the positions of where the braces would be, I used the square to mark down onto the “inside” of post and beam, for the end of the mortices. I tried to mark under the braces for the “shoulders” of the tenons, but this was tricky as it’s all so close to the floor and tried to square up the sides of the braces. I don’t think using the square was ideal here, I would suppose using a chalked plumb line would be better, particularly if the timbers were bigger. I’m having difficulty remembering which bits should be “scribed” and which bits would be “plumb(ed)”. Anyway, it’ll all come out in the wash, I’m hoping a little bit of wooden “shim” and a swipe with a plane will cover up some of the bigger mistakes. (I’ll park a chair in front of the biggest mistakes!).
I then compared one brace to the other, to see if they were similar enough to be right. Doing this helped me notice the slight “mistake”, that when setting them out, I’d measured down from the top of the frame for one brace and the inside of the frame for the other!!! Luckily as I hadn’t applied the saw, I could fix that with a rubber and a new scribble, luckily I had a rubber in the tool box (strangely enough my big brother always carried his in his wallet, he says if you put it there you wouldn’t make mistakes! I really should’ve listened to his advice when I was younger!). This is comparing the two braces after I’d re-scribbled;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2879.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2879.jpg.html)
You might notice that there’s about ½ inch difference between the two. This could be down to the irregularities in the wood, or probably I’ve just cacked up again. As it is, they’re nearly six foot apart so who’s going to notice? It’ll only be ¼” when they’re in place anyway.
Nextly; Cutting the tenons. Due to the angle of the brace, I found there was a lot of wood to rip through, but I only needed to come in from one side as the shoulders were at 45%. Here I found the sawing was getting hard, possibly because the “grain” was curling the wood in, but I dare say that I might not have a good technique yet!; Anyway, I had a bright idea, so I popped in, found the wife’s best candle and rubbed it all over the blade;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%206/_DSC2883.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%206/_DSC2883.jpg.html)
This seemed to do the trick as the sawing got easier. You’ll probably need to use the missus’ best candle as I’m sure the wax’ll be better! She won’t mind surely? I think, if your blade is straight and you know what you’re doing you won’t need the wax. Plus, if you’re going to be gluing the tenons, the wax would cause a lot of problems. Luckily, I’m going to be using pegs, and the wax’ll help waterproof the joint!!!
Et Veolia (as the Bin-men say in France); two part-finished braces;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%206/_DSC2885.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%206/_DSC2885.jpg.html)
I used to think you’d cut the mortices into the posts at 45 degrees for braces, but apparently not, it’s probably too fiddly and not necessary, plus I think you’d never get the thing together during assembly. I’m hoping I’ve got this next bit right. I marked the tenon, back 45 degrees on the longest edge of the brace;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%206/_DSC2886.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%206/_DSC2886.jpg.html)
….and chopped the end off (too late to go back now!). This should mean that the tenon will slide in square to the face of the beam/post. Then I laid them out on the posts with the "LI" just to see what other mistakes I’d made;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%206/_DSC2887.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%206/_DSC2887.jpg.html)
So far so good, but looking at the twist I’d cut in the Tenons!!! You’d think I was a “prop-maker” for Sopwiths. Never mind, a sharp chisel and wooden-shim’ll sort that out.
If you chop the mortice full depth along its length, there’ll be a big gap inside the mortice when the joint’s done up, so if you’re handy with a chisel I’m sure you could cut one end of the mortice at 45 degrees. Personally I think Father O’Reilly might need somewhere to hide his Bushmills when his mates pop round and he might need somewhere for his mates if the “roundheads” come round, so I’ve left some big “holes”! I might try something different on the back frame.
Next I BRRR-GRAUNCH-WHIRRED the mortices, shaved their edges, popped the braces in the holes, marked the depth of the tenons, sawed a bit more kindling off and “Hey Presto” (I think Presto became Safeway actually!);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%206/_DSC2888.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%206/_DSC2888.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%206/_DSC2889.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%206/_DSC2889.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%206/_DSC2890.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%206/_DSC2890.jpg.html)
Job Done!! I’ll not make you jealous by showing you close-ups of the braces and how flush they are to the front face……still, nothing that a quick wipe across with a plane won’t settle!!!
See you later, I’ve been blathering on when I should be drilling some holes for the pegs today!!!
Oh look! The apprentice has popped round for a hob-nob or two; look at him, lying down on the job, as usual;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2845.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%204/log%20store%205/_DSC2845.jpg.html)
This is when I’d just told him “look Sonny, none of your cheek! I’ve forgotten more about carpentry than you’ll ever know”. “Izzat so gran’dad I wish you’d remembered some of it when you was tryin’ to teach me!!!” he said back. I don’t know, the Yoof of today eh!!
We were never like that, were we?
-
When I cut my dovetails too wide, I slip a little sliver of veneer in there. Nobody knows the truth.
Mosey :lol:
-
Wish I'd known you 13 years ago!!! You could have advised me on that and how to avoid the big gap between the lid and the rest of the box!! :Doh: I call it "ventilation".
Ross
-
This build is going the parallel lines with my working methods...scary.
OT: British humor.
My first real British experience was when Thatcher was firmly in power. Just landed in London and we were about exit the plane and walk 10-20 meters to bus. Flight attendant said "It's a fresh wind outside". Galeforce winds with horizontal waterfal tried push us offcourse and pile at the end of runway before we happles business travellers could reach relative safety of busses.
When my wife came to Finland (mexican origin lived in texas) and we were watching BBC:s finest series "What language is that?" She honestly could not get that thick accent. But 15 years here has done it's job (and some British workforce too). She and our daughter had no problem when they visited London last summer.
English is a wonderful language, it's so widely used (often wrong) that very different people can communicate with a reasonable degree of certainty, but with a very little change of understanding completely :lol
Pekka
-
Wish I'd known you 13 years ago!!! You could have advised me on that and how to avoid the big gap between the lid and the rest of the box!! :Doh: I call it "ventilation".
Ross
Sent you a PM about gaps.
Mosey
-
This build is going the parallel lines with my working methods...scary.
OT: British humor.
My first real British experience was when Thatcher was firmly in power. Just landed in London and we were about exit the plane and walk 10-20 meters to bus. Flight attendant said "It's a fresh wind outside". Galeforce winds with horizontal waterfal tried push us offcourse and pile at the end of runway before we happles business travellers could reach relative safety of busses.
When my wife came to Finland (mexican origin lived in texas) and we were watching BBC:s finest series "What language is that?" She honestly could not get that thick accent. But 15 years here has done it's job (and some British workforce too). She and our daughter had no problem when they visited London last summer.
English is a wonderful language, it's so widely used (often wrong) that very different people can communicate with a reasonable degree of certainty, but with a very little change of understanding completely :lol
Pekka
Pekka, :lol:
thank's for re-assuring me that other's work like I do.
Yes, we often use 'under-statement", which is a slight subtle difference to saying the complete opposite to what we mean. such as, when you have cut your arm off with a chain saw and someone asks if you are all right, you say "Oh it's nothing, just a scratch". Look up "Monty Python and the Holy Grail". :lol: :lol: :lol:
Is your wife a "Tejana", I think that's what they're called? Apparently Texas wouldn't be Texas, without the "Mexicans". And at least half of the defenders of the Alamo were "Mexican". I spent a couple of days in St Luis Potosi, the place and people there were lovely :thumbup:
I was in Norway, when Thatcher was kicked out, a Norwegian asked who this "John Major' was? I said I'd never heard of him before. I've still not met anyone who knows who he is! The weather in England was rubbish that year too!
We are often informed that the British don't learn foreign languages. However we actually know loads; Australian, New Zealandish, American, half of Canadian.....
Ross :wave:
-
Is your wife a "Tejana", I think that's what they're called? Apparently Texas wouldn't be Texas, without the "Mexicans". And at least half of the defenders of the Alamo were "Mexican". I spent a couple of days in St Luis Potosi, the place and people there were lovely :thumbup:
.....
No, She is is from Chihuahua. About the "Tejana" the is difference of pronunciation. It's really writen as Texana, but said the way you wrote! bit like in comics.. first time I read comics in mexico I was wodering what is "ja ja ja"? I askes and the answer was "ha ha ha". :lol:
I have been too St Luis Potosi, I think my friend parked the car close to church and we had to fish licence plates back from police station. But really nice and easy going place.
Nice thing about English is sheer variation of it. English speakking generally tolerate a lot of bad English without making a big stink about it. German and French was different cup of potage altogether. If you didn't speek perfect you were not worth a much. Lucily it has changed a lot.
Any more chipping, persuation and grammar done today?
Pekka
-
This build is going the parallel lines with my working methods...scary.
OT: British humor.
My first real British experience was when Thatcher was firmly in power. Just landed in London and we were about exit the plane and walk 10-20 meters to bus. Flight attendant said "It's a fresh wind outside". Galeforce winds with horizontal waterfal tried push us offcourse and pile at the end of runway before we happles business travellers could reach relative safety of busses.
When my wife came to Finland (mexican origin lived in texas) and we were watching BBC:s finest series "What language is that?" She honestly could not get that thick accent. But 15 years here has done it's job (and some British workforce too). She and our daughter had no problem when they visited London last summer.
English is a wonderful language, it's so widely used (often wrong) that very different people can communicate with a reasonable degree of certainty, but with a very little change of understanding completely :lol
Pekka
Pekka, :lol:
thank's for re-assuring me that other's work like I do.
Yes, we often use 'under-statement", which is a slight subtle difference to saying the complete opposite to what we mean. such as, when you have cut your arm off with a chain saw and someone asks if you are all right, you say "Oh it's nothing, just a scratch". Look up "Monty Python and the Holy Grail". :lol: :lol: :lol:
Is your wife a "Tejana", I think that's what they're called? Apparently Texas wouldn't be Texas, without the "Mexicans". And at least half of the defenders of the Alamo were "Mexican". I spent a couple of days in St Luis Potosi, the place and people there were lovely :thumbup:
I was in Norway, when Thatcher was kicked out, a Norwegian asked who this "John Major' was? I said I'd never heard of him before. I've still not met anyone who knows who he is! The weather in England was rubbish that year too!
We are often informed that the British don't learn foreign languages. However we actually know loads; Australian, New Zealandish, American, half of Canadian.....
Ross :wave:
Ross, that's terrific that you know American...which words? You can probably write all 10 of them here. (do not include whilst, spanner, and bonnet) It's your cuisine we covet. I watch BBC Masterchef where they make Spam with truffle oil.
The French are adopting our words wholesale, like "weekend" and "hotdog", it's just that they want us to pronounce them correctly.
All I remember about the English news of that time was some Italian guy, and that girl. We miss Maggie and Ron. :lol: :lol:
Your American friend, Mosey
-
Ross, that's terrific that you know American...which words? You can probably write all 10 of them here. (do not include whilst, spanner, and bonnet) It's your cuisine we covet. I watch BBC Masterchef where they make Spam with truffle oil.
The French are adopting our words wholesale, like "weekend" and "hotdog", it's just that they want us to pronounce them correctly.
All I remember about the English news of that time was some Italian guy, and that girl. We miss Maggie and Ron. :lol: :lol:
Your American friend, Mosey
The most important American Words I know are "1964 Ford Mustang" :bow:
-
In 2 weeks, I'll be in London, teaching them how to drive on the right side of the road. :beer:
Mosey
-
In 2 weeks, I'll be in London, teaching them how to drive on the right side of the road. :beer:
Mosey
Mosey, It'd be nice to meet up if we get a chance. I tried driving on the "correct" side of the road in Texas once, they didn't seem to understand :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
PS, did you get the email with my clock?
-
I'll wave to the Calshot Spit when we fly over.
Mosey
-
Here I am, back again (like the proverbial penny).
I had considered drilling the tenons the proper way, by sticking them in the mortices, marking down through the holes in the mortices and then drilling slightly off-set toward the tenon “shoulder”. This would tighten the joint up. However, I really couldn’t be a***d so I did it a bit bodgy and quick(ish).
First job was to re-assemble the frame, level and check for flat and square, whilst applying the bits of string to tighten it all up;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%209/_DSC2916.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%209/_DSC2916.jpg.html)
For the life of me I couldn’t get it to square up… I’m not sure why, possibly mis-cut tenon shoulders, or sideways-gravity, or the braces the wrong way round. But no matter how much bashing with a mallet, it was still off-square, I even swapped the braces around, but no luck. If I loosened the stringy things (two boat-builder friends have informed me that these are “Spanish Windlasses”, however, as these are bearded boat-builders [We used to call ‘em pirates in my day!] I couldn’t guarantee they’d know the difference between windlass and cutlass, particularly when some Pussers has been drunk!) it was all too loose so I had to get some powerful thinking drink out;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%209/_DSC2917.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%209/_DSC2917.jpg.html)
This is the only recourse when the tea has failed to work! A glug or two of Girrrrder juice later and BINGO! Another Spanish Windless! As I’d run out of nylon string I had to find summat else, so;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%209/_DSC2918.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%209/_DSC2918.jpg.html)
A bit of electric string! It’ll make the electrons giddy next time I hoover the lawn, but you can’t have everything. I tightened the long diagonal till the job was square;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%209/_DSC2919.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%209/_DSC2919.jpg.html)
The joints sort of looked as tight as they’d go so, “re-introdusing….Daa Da Daa Da Da….Mr Makita he very Tough….Mr Makita he very Strong…Mr Makita give him one charge….And he will work the whole day Long…Daa Da Daaa”.
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%209/_DSC2920.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%209/_DSC2920.jpg.html)
(If anyone’s wondering whether I am paid for any endorsements, no I am not! However I am open to any offers!). As I said I quite like this drill, even if the headlights are pointless. One good thing I like is that he stands on his own foot quite easily;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%209/_DSC2921.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%209/_DSC2921.jpg.html)
I drilled through the mortice holes and then realised I should have come through from the front face, tearing any wood on the non-to-be-looked-at side. The pre-drilled holes seemed to be good enough to guide the drill through straight(ish). Once all the holes had been done I started cutting and sharpening the pegs;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%209/_DSC2922.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%209/_DSC2922.jpg.html)
These I made 2 ½” long (okay, everyone but the first, wot was a tad too short), then I bashed ‘em through with the hitting-stick, using a proper wooden carpenter’s hitting-stick and not a “Birmingham Screwdriver”. Et Violet (as the gardeners say in France);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%209/_DSC2923.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%209/_DSC2923.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%209/_DSC2925.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%209/_DSC2925.jpg.html)
Once again I came in the wrong way round (hit em in from the front, not the back you plo***r!), tearing a bit more wood out the “pretty side”;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%209/_DSC2928.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%209/_DSC2928.jpg.html)
Still, nuffink a damp rag and a 700Watt planer can’t sort out. So, up to a point, frame number 1 is done;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%209/_DSC2926.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%209/_DSC2926.jpg.html)
All I’ve got to do now is; frame two (I’ll see if I can do that properly), tie them together, floor it and bung a roof on, can’t take long surely?
Remember that tight lap-joint (Yes M’Lud, I was proceeding in a Northerly direction past the “Double-mint Hippo….)? Well, I done an’ split me lower beam!!!;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%209/_DSC2915.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%209/_DSC2915.jpg.html)
Nothing a bit of glue and cramps can’t sort, but I was well pleased with that joint too. I think the joints don’t need to be as tight as I’ve made them, not with all the fitting and re-fitting I’m doing and the bashing with the stick!!
-
I'll wave to the Calshot Spit when we fly over.
Mosey
You might see me down there making propellors for Supermarine with my tenon saw!!
-
Hi there, Ross and Mosey,
First of all, Mosey, I doubt whether you'll come in over Calshot Spit - more likely to be over Prestwick, even if you're not due to land there. That's unless, of course, you're coming in an Imperial Airways flying boat, via the Bermuda Triangle!
SNIP
You might see me down there making propellors for Supermarine with my tenon saw!!
A bit :offtopic: but here I go anyway: (Swing the lamps)
Back in about 1950, my school Hobbies Club ran a visit to The 'Airscrew Company and Jicwood Limited' at Addlestone, near Weybridge. They were making laminated wooden airscrews with each layer (what's the singular of 'lamina'?) cut so the grain was in the radial direction. I don't remember seeing any tenon saws! The 'Jicwood' part of the business also made laminated wooden moulding forms. I believe that my father had worked there at some stage in his career because he gave me a mallet with a laminated wooden head.
We were also shown a department making chipboard, I don't suppose there are many of those in the UK anymore. And they were also making, in one piece, the thermal insulation layer for the roof of the London double-decker buses, it was made of expanded rubber!
-
I'm reminiscing about my errant childhood...I can see the Spit in my dreams, bright red and white. Any chance to make-believe I'm going past there is heaven. :)
Mosey
13 days to Heathrow.
-
Hello dearly beloved. Been out in the “workshop” again. I was a bit concerned that my pace has been a bit slow, so I did a wee “time and motion study”. Now that I don’t have to do as much thinking as when making the first frame, cos I did it then. For the second frame I’ve decided to do a bit more work between cups of tea, so now for every cuppa I’ll cut two or more joints instead of one!
Firstly, following the handy tip from Andy T I’m going to mark up the timbers cramped together, squaring the ends up;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2932.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2932.jpg.html)
Marking across, using frame one for positions;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2930.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2930.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2933.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2933.jpg.html)
Marking back from the other ends, using the shortest timber to set the “height of the frame;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2934.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2934.jpg.html)
“Uh Oh”. Look who’s turned up, it’s the apprentice again, he’s been lying low most of the week. He asked if he could come to the pub Sunday night, as he knew the dark haired girl who’s just moved in next door was going to be there. I think he had too many shandies! Here he was asking me where all the hob-nobs have gone? “you scoffed em all last week ya little Nerk!” said I in my usual polite style. “Well you’d better buy some more granddad” says he. So I told him to get a shopping bag and I’d give him a couple of quid for some more.
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2937.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2937.jpg.html)
We’ve had to get him his own bag, as he always leaves ours down the Co-op;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2940.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2940.jpg.html)
“An’ I want you to come straight back, no blinking dawdling!” As I’ve said before, you trades-people know just what they’re like!
Here’s the long bits cramped up and being marked out;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2929.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2929.jpg.html)
Here’s me cutting three tenon shoulders in one go, told you I’d done a time and motion study!;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2935.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2935.jpg.html)
And this shows you how blinking hard the morticer gets stuck in the wood;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2938.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2938.jpg.html)
Any way time to get on, TTFN!
-
Well then, looks like the time and motion’s worked. Now have two frames in the “workshop”;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2941.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2941.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2942.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2942.jpg.html)
Took a number of shortcuts and I think I’m getting some idea about tenons and stuff. First frame took 6 days, this one 1 day.
The b****y apprentice got back from the Co-op; six sausage rolls and a packet of cheese in the bag, no blinking hob-nobs. “Sold out innit!” says he through a mouthful of crumbs!!!!
-
Mornin’ all. Anyone out there? Remember to say hello every now an’ again, it’s a bit lonely out in t’ workshop, and the apprentice don’t talk much.
This morning I thought it about time to do something to hold the frames together, so “ZZd ZZe ZZD ZZe, Ouch, B****r” and before you knew it I’d made these;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2011/_DSC2947.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2011/_DSC2947.jpg.html)
…..And had some old scrap left over;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2011/_DSC2949.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2011/_DSC2949.jpg.html)
The idea is to have some wood under the floor (joists?) to hold the floor down, plus some wood up the sides (tie beams?) to hold the back to the front. If you look carefully at the picture above, you can see I’ve carefully cut some tenons vertical and some horizontal, near did me back in lying on the floor cutting the horizontal ones!
I clamped the timbers together in fours, (cheers AndyT!) and marked them out together in the hope they’d all be the same length after attacking with a saw. I put an arrow on to help me remember which way round they were and which face was out, or up (mind you I’m blowed if I can remember which way it’s supposed to point now, I’ll have to revert to writing instructions to me’sen);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2011/_DSC2943.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2011/_DSC2943.jpg.html)
Then I tried cutting four tenon shoulders together;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2011/_DSC2944.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2011/_DSC2944.jpg.html)
Realised the little saw wasn’t up to it so got a bigger saw;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2011/_DSC2945.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2011/_DSC2945.jpg.html)
Then realised it really was going to go t**s up at sometime, so decided to cut the rest one at a time. Not sure about this modern industrialised assembly line lark, don’t think it’ll catch on. Then the apprentice popped out for a nose around, decided to “pressure-treat” the wood pile and you just won’t believe what he did on the green carpet at the end of the workshop!!!
Took about three hours of hard tea-break to do that little lot! I’ve got even more efficient, one cup of tea lasts about two beams now.
“Ladies and Gentlemen, Welcome to the Astoria, before the main feature we will have a quick word from our sponsors………Gladys, why are you running around shouting “Minorcas, Minorcas” Minorca is singular, it’s Balearic which is plural. Oh I see. Oi you lot in the back row, I told you last week….”
If you’re interested in timber-framing the old fashioned way, I did a course at the Weald and Downland museum, it weren’t cheap for five days, but was a brilliant time. There were blokes of all different ages and backgrounds (ladies are welcome too!) and it was great working together and getting to know each other, as well as learning how to hurt yourself on a b****y great chisel or two. I don’t know if these courses are still running, but ours was led by a chappie called Joe Thompson, you couldn’t hope to meet a nicer chap. (as I’ve said before, I’m not affiliated to or paid for these plugs, but I am still open to any offers).
“We will now be starting tonight’s main feature please take your seats…..I meant sit down! not take the flippin’ things out the fire exit….”
-
Ross
Just so you don't think nobody is paying any attention I'll chip in from the front row. Sorry about trying to nick that chair but I was talking with the apprentice. We both figured with your skills you could knock up a replacement with little trouble so it wouldn't be a big deal. He even offered to hold the door for me. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'll be back to see how you get on with the next bit. :D :D
Cheers :beer:
Don
-
It’s approaching evening so I’ve downed tools ready for the weekend. Friday is steak chips and a glass of wine night. After this week’s work I think I’ll make that two glasses!
Where was we, oh yes, tenoning (is that a word?). My evening class teacher said “let the saw do the work, don’t force it”, so I sat there for ages, and the b****y saw did nowt, just like the apprentice. So I had to get up and do the work myself! I’ve got one side of my body like Popeye now and the other like Olive Oyle.
Meanwhile, back on topic I was going to start marking out the mortices for the joists and tie beams. So I lined the two frames up to see which way round they ought to be. The first shot shows where the feet are together but everything else is on the p*** (at an angle);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%2012/_DSC2954.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%2012/_DSC2954.jpg.html)
….the next shows both frames matching near perfick like;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%2012/_DSC2955.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%2012/_DSC2955.jpg.html)
…obviously that was all intended and “ahem!” we need not worry about the whole thing leaning slightly to one side. It’s well within spec! Once both frames were levelled and matched together, I marked out the positions of the mortices. These were set about an inch from nearby mortices or tenons, to leave some strength in the wood;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%2012/_DSC2953.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%2012/_DSC2953.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%2012/_DSC2952.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%2012/_DSC2952.jpg.html)
…and to make sure I didn’t b****r it up next time, I marked the rear frame to know which way round it ought to go;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%2012/_DSC2956.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%2012/_DSC2956.jpg.html)
I find writing instructions all over the wood is better than doing it on paper, it’s generally harder to lose the wood than paper! I also marked the side of the line I needed to mark the mortices and which side of the timber needed the hole cut in it;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%2012/_DSC2957.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%2012/_DSC2957.jpg.html)
This was ‘cos the faces for the mortices were the ones clamped together. I then marked the mortices out and found an old bit of tenon waste was handy to mark the width out with;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%2012/_DSC2958.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%2012/_DSC2958.jpg.html)
Although, this being carcassing, no two bits of wood are the same thickness! BRRR WHIZZ WOOF OUCH and here we are, one end of the wood fitted to the other bits of wood. There is an issue about the other ends but we’ll leave that for now shall we.;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%2012/_DSC2960.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%2012/_DSC2960.jpg.html)
I could now do the braces for the floor. These could have been done at 45 degrees like the others, but me back were killing me so I just bunged ‘em in any old how. No-one’s going to care, they’re going to be boarded over anyway!
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%2012/_DSC2961.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%2012/_DSC2961.jpg.html)
I’m sure, as long as the joist is at 90(ish) degrees, we’ll all be happy. BANG, CHOP, WHIRR, TWEET, OUCH and;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%2012/_DSC2962.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%2012/_DSC2962.jpg.html)
…the pile of sticks is starting to look like something at last here’s it with the other frame dumped on top;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%2012/_DSC2963.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%2012/_DSC2963.jpg.html)
I’m quite pleased with that, particularly the floor;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/log%20store%2012/_DSC2964.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/log%20store%2012/_DSC2964.jpg.html)
…even though it’s pretending to be a stud wall at the mo. Mind you, last time I was pleased with something, it broke! We’ll have to see what the morrow brings.
TTFN
-
Ross
Just so you don't think nobody is paying any attention I'll chip in from the front row. Sorry about trying to nick that chair but I was talking with the apprentice. We both figured with your skills you could knock up a replacement with little trouble so it wouldn't be a big deal. He even offered to hold the door for me. :lol: :lol: :lol:
I'll be back to see how you get on with the next bit. :D :D
Cheers :beer:
Don
Cheers Don :beer:, it's great to know someone's out there :thumbup: (hope I didn't offend with the "Canadian Oil" line :Doh:
-
Mosey
You'd have been impressed. I was sitting out in the "workshop" and a Spitfire flew over the house, at about 1000 feet. It's airshow season, so we've had a number of bi-planes, including a possible Swordfish (which appeared to be either still or in reverse), C130s in pairs at about 200 feet, and we get Chinooks and Pumas lower. I've seen a Lancaster and the last Vulcan too, but not this year. Best I've seen is about 3 or 4 spits and 1 hurricane together. Just wish someone would send a Typhoon over (the proper one, with Napier up front, not the new fangled Euro Wotsit).
-
It is air show time here, also.
There is a B-17 at the nearby military airport, and they offer rides for about $500.00. I passed that up, but did get to crawl around inside while parked. There are quite a few Spitfires and Mustangs still flying around here. Good for the circulation.
Mosey
-
Crumbs, I’m finally getting somewhere at last. Last time we saw each other I’d got the back frame lying down with some tie beams and joists sticking out of it. All I needed to do was make some mortices on the back of the front frame and fit the tenons to the mortices (oh and make two braces). This time I thought I’d trim the tenon ends of the braces before cutting the tenons;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2967.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2967.jpg.html)
I’m not sure if that saved me any time but who knows? Next I fitted the tenons to the mortices. I did this by laying the tenon piece on the mortice piece with the edges flush;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2973.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2973.jpg.html)
And using the chisel I could mark if any of the tenon was wider than the mortice. You might be able to see that the tenon and mortice are slightly off centre, due to the way I’m using a chisel thickness to mark in from one common edge. Then all I needed to do was shave (pare?) the bit of the tenon which was too thick. This was slightly more planned than previous attempts, where I just made the wood fit in the hole. Doing that didn’t help the edges of the wood lie flush.
Next thing was to square up the braced tie beam. So I popped this in its hole with the brace;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2974.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2974.jpg.html)
And checked for square (with a square!). Here you may see a gap. By now I was starting to realise there were a number of ways to fiddle these things in, trimming the tenon shoulders, moving the hole one way or the other, or, in this instance I trimmed the end/edge/whatever of the tenon to shift it sideways in the hole;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2978.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2978.jpg.html)
All I needed to do now was make the mortices in the front frame pieces. However some of you may remember that I thought I’d be clever and peg it all together. This left me two choices; a, put the morticer on the floor, under the frame and cut the holes, or b, take it all apart again. Neither choice seemed particularly effortless, however I did go for b, using;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2980.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2980.jpg.html)
….a de-framing hammer and a de-framing nail. Put the flat end of the nail on the end of your peg and bash the pointy end with the hammer! A few thumbs later (lucky I’ve got a good supply of them!), I realised that if I held the nail with some pliers, my thumb supply would last longer. BBBRRRR WHHHIZZ SHIMM SHIMM and look, I’ve got a big pile of sticks again;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2982.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2982.jpg.html)
The problem with the traditional framing style, is that you start off with a pile of sticks, offer them up to each other, trim a bit here and there, fit ‘em together and then you take it apart again. This goes on for b****y ages. Essentially you build the whole thing a bit at a time about 70 times over again. Oh and look who came out for a hard afternoons sunbathing;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2981.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2981.jpg.html)
If I had half a mind I’d stop paying the little blighter! Anyway, he did offer to give a hand putting it together….and then fell asleep;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2976.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2976.jpg.html)
So I had to do it me-sen (as they say in Sheffield). First off, get the back frame laid out and pegged up (or is it laid up and pegged out?);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2983.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2983.jpg.html)
Then add some joining-together sticks;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2984.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2984.jpg.html)
Which is nearly exactly where I was 6 hours of hard work earlier! And then bung the front frame on;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2985.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2985.jpg.html)
…and hey hum, Robert’s yer fathers brother, job done! One made up timber frame log store (nearly);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2989.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2989.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2990.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2990.jpg.html)
Or I suppose it could be one bizarrely naked Welsh Dresser! And here’s one of the last views of a nicely braced floor before the boards go on;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2986.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2986.jpg.html)
Crumbs (again), I’m absolutely knackered and there’s salt stains all over me polo shirt. Bring on the morrow and I may have actually nearly finished this job (I seem to remember thinking that this time last week!)
TTFN
-
I have been following the build it Looks really good was it worth the time? I'm just waiting for the morrow ( of the story ) :lol:
-
In terms of the log store, it could be debatable as to the time-worthwhilability, however, as a learning experience, yes, probably!
Tomorrow may tell, thanks for the comment :thumbup:.
Ross
-
Like they say, "It's the journey that is important, not the destination" :)
:beer:
DaveH
-
Like they say, "It's the journey that is important, not the destination" :)
:beer:
DaveH
Cheers Dave :beer:
I am very much enjoying this journey and don't want to reach the end, mind you, the old back's got a different story to tell!
-
You are doing a super job in a classical manner. I am enjoying the build very much! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Cheers :beer:
/Peter
-
Ooh, Ow, Eek, Me Back. Absolutely shattered for some reason. It’s been one of those days where I seem to have been doing stuff all day, I’m worn out, yet nothing much seems to have got done, and what was done seems very unsatisfactory. Ever had one of those days yourself?
First thing I thought I needed to sharpen the big Swede (chisel), as he’d seemed to be getting a bit blunt yesterday, so I might as well do the block plane iron too. Out with the stones and, ooh, they do seem a bit curvilicious and not particularly flat. So on with flattening stones, several-teen hours later there’s a ton of grit in me sink (with last nights washing up!) and two possibly, or possibly not, bits of sharp metal. Then out to the “workshop” and what shall I do now? Hmm, let’s get rid of some o’ them pegs shall we, so lets find the pull saw;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2991.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2991.jpg.html)
I’m presuming it had a few more teeth when I bought it! (I also believe the blade may have been straight too, not quite so S shape!) Anyway, ZZZZd ZZZe and off popped the peg ends;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2992.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2992.jpg.html)
…and the large Swede (Rutabagan!) seemed to be up to a bit of paring down;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2993.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2993.jpg.html)
Then I came back to an earlier idea about making some of the adjoining timbers a bit flusher, plus dealing with the slight (ahem) surface imperfections. This is where I think it all started going downhill at a greater rate of acceleration;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2994.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2994.jpg.html)
….Let’s concede to modernity shall we! Put a big motor on summat and see what we can do. B******s it all up is what we can B****y well do matey! SSSSSSKKKRRRREEEEEEEE VVVVRRRRRIIPPP, large amounts of shavings everywhere (you should see the state of the apprentice’s A**e where he’s been sitting down all day) and a complete B******s of a surface finish everywhere;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC3001.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC3001.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC3002.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC3002.jpg.html)
And that’s after I’ve tried tidying up with a proper plane and the big Swede! I imagine there was a good reason for buying that thing and I’m sure it’s been of some use at some stage, but generally I’ve never been satisfied with how it sounds, the blinking cable always getting snagged, or the finish. It’s okay for getting rid of wood quickly, but you’ve always got to get a proper plane out to make stuff look nice. Plus, it’s terrifyingly easy to go wrong too quick.
Nextly, putting in the floor. I bunged a board down and “hey ho”, looky here the boards bent;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2995.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2995.jpg.html)
I don’t know if you can see, but the end of the board is about ½” away from the far post when the middle is touching, the near end is ½” out from the post too. Not a problem, if I mark in the same distance from the posts, I can cut some notches in and it’ll all be right. Did one side and put a board in the other side and blow me, another bent board. I know I’ll turn it round and the bend might be the right way round! Ah! Ummm, It appears the boards are actually straight and the log store’s bent. Hey ho, worse things happen at sea (so the boat builders tell me, which is why they never leave dry land!). Measure in the same distance from the posts, knock out some square holes and bamm! It fits. Time to revert to modernity again;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2996.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2996.jpg.html)
..I’mm at that point where I don’t care how a traditional floor was laid, this one’s going to be nailed down with them twisty nail things what get turned into the wood. On with the handy doo dah, which drills and countersinks in one go!;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2997.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2997.jpg.html)
…or to be slightly more precise, breaks your drill and doesn’t countersink in one go (I have two sets of these, Screwfix and Disston, they both work (not) the same way). WHHHIIIRRR JJGGG JGGGGG, and here we have it, one floor;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2998.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2998.jpg.html)
There were bits of board sticking out each end, so I had a clever idea, cut them after they’re fixed and you’ll have nice even flush ends;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2999.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2999.jpg.html)
….B******s I will, I’ll have a lot of scrappy chunked out bits of wood and cuts all over the ends of me log store. However, in with the Bosch and;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC3000.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC3000.jpg.html)
Moderately, slightly less bad ends! Humdy Ho, Thought I might have had the roof on and job finished today. Let’s see what tomorrow brings shall we? See you later!
-
You are doing a super job in a classical manner. I am enjoying the build very much! :clap: :clap: :clap:
Cheers :beer:
/Peter
Peter, Thanks for the kind comment :thumbup: I needed some cheering up :( > :wave:
-
It's hard to get a straight piece of wood over here too, that's why framer's can't build a house with square corners!
-
It's hard to get a straight piece of wood over here too, that's why framer's can't build a house with square corners!
:lol:
It's probably the reason we used to live in roundhouses here, till the Romans came. (And we went back to them as soon as they left!).
-
How refreshing to see proper building work where blemishes are not glossed over. Ever seen a cardealer ar what ever that is: Everyting allways works out in an instant? This is to store logs and not a jewelery case. I have seen some pictures where logs were arraged in "visually pleasing manner" and not just chukked in (good air circulation is a desirable thing, packking tight is not).
I liked the pinned part. For a non native English basher some terms really needs discovery. If you google "draw boring" you'll find method I knew and saw but would have never found - unless I saw one picture and this coinned expression together.
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cschwarz/z_art/drawboring/drawBoring2.asp
Does the treated timber merchant has to take back offcuts, sawdust and the other waste from the treated wood? Here it is considered somewhat hazardous waste and merchant has to take unused part back.
Pekka
-
How refreshing to see proper building work where blemishes are not glossed over. Ever seen a cardealer ar what ever that is: Everyting allways works out in an instant? This is to store logs and not a jewelery case. I have seen some pictures where logs were arraged in "visually pleasing manner" and not just chukked in (good air circulation is a desirable thing, packking tight is not).
I liked the pinned part. For a non native English basher some terms really needs discovery. If you google "draw boring" you'll find method I knew and saw but would have never found - unless I saw one picture and this coinned expression together.
http://www.wkfinetools.com/contrib/cschwarz/z_art/drawboring/drawBoring2.asp
Does the treated timber merchant has to take back offcuts, sawdust and the other waste from the treated wood? Here it is considered somewhat hazardous waste and merchant has to take unused part back.
Pekka
Draw-boring. I can't remember if I knew the name for this. The principle was taught to me at a museum. I can remember the principles but not the name too often, which is why I call a lot of things a "Wotsit" (a "what is it" because I can't remember!).
So far I have to get rid of the waste wood, not the dealer. Things are slowly changing here, but we're not as good as many at waste and recycling. Locally, the local government recycle paper, plastic bottles, aluminium and steel cans and glass, everything else gets dumped in the sea, in the ground or burnt.
Thanks for the comment :thumbup: :clap:
-
Phweeweee! It was very hot today so I took a small break at about 2:00 and then popped out at 6:00 to put everything away. So not a massive deal has been done but at least the rafters for the roof are now underway, even if none have been cut yet! In fact it was so hot, this is the sum total of action from the apprentice;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3013.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3013.jpg.html)
“Ooh wot’s’is then”
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3012.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3012.jpg.html)
…”looks a bit of orl right this gaff, I can see meself movin’ in when it’s finished”;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3023.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3023.jpg.html)
….”Yeah, (Yawn) very cumfy, I think I’ll just have a quick lie down, zzzzzzzzz!”
..And as I say, that was him for the rest of the day, didn’t even want to go out and get Hob-nobs!
I’d been wondering about the end rafters (there’s probably a proper word for them, something to do with eaves or what-ever). I’d never really been sure about the first lot I did;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3033.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3033.jpg.html)
They were 3” by ¾” board, laid on their side, with sort of bird’s mouths cut into them. The principle seems okayish (yes, you don’t need to remind me rafters should only be cut into 1/3 of the way, I do remember something from night school!). But the bare beam ends seemed a bit clumsy. I had thought of cutting into the beam ends and laying the end rafters onto the posts, but this would cut into where the mortice and tenon was, and the post could “pop’ out the end of the beam. Or I could just screw the board onto the edge of the posts, but there would only be enough room for two screws and I thought this would be weak. Plus you would see two, non-traditional posi-drive Screwfix screws. So after a number of cups of tea I decided to put a rafter down the ends, made from 2” x 2” and see if I could stick a board on the end next to it. First, clamp a bit of batten on the end to support a bit of wood;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3003.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3003.jpg.html)
The top of the batten is in-line with the top rear corner of each post. Then stick a bit of 2 x 2 on this and mark the top of the post;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3004.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3004.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3005.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3005.jpg.html)
After this, I clamped the bit of wood up so that the lines for the “birds mouth” were vertical and apply some damage;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3008.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3008.jpg.html)
…I know it looks like the saw is “doing the work itself”, but believe me, I’ve tried forcing and not-forcing saws, they never do the work themselves. And after a bit of faffing and paring, voila, one rafter (sort of);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3006.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3006.jpg.html)
Once this was in place I could lay up the board next to it and a bit of batten on top. The batten was to raise the height of the “rafter” to the top of the board, so that this could take the weight of the roof, not the end board (barge-board?);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3011.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3011.jpg.html)
That photo actually had me trying to be clever with some other jiggery pokery, but hopefully you get the idea. Next thing was screwing the “barge board?” to the rafter, I could get more screws in now, but the screw heads would look ugly, but suddenly “bing” (light bulb goes on over my head). What if I screw in from the inside, with the pointy bit inside the board, that’ll do the trick. However I realised, out of what remains of my 3000 odd screws, all the sizes were just wrong. Either they’d stick out of the board (ouch), or not go far enough into it to hold;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3026.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3026.jpg.html)
So I’d need to counter-bore the hole. I could use the counter-bore wotsits, but as mentioned earlier, they don’t, well not in this type of wood anyway. So I counterbored with a big and little drill, using the “piece of masking tape round the drill” method for depth control and there we were, nice counter-bored screws. (no-one’ll see ‘em anyway!);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3027.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3027.jpg.html)
Resulting in a bit of wood screwed to another bit of wood screwed to some more wood;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3029.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3029.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3028.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3028.jpg.html)
Do that again and..lots of wood stuck together. Next thing was putting the middle rafters in. I had though about setting them into the beams (wall plates?) somehow, not just resting them on the beams (plates) with “birds mouths”. Apparently there was a traditional method of angled housings/slots what-ever, but I decided to just do some straight slots/lap-joints (“So, the accused says he wandered into Double-mint Hippo, under the apprehension it was a pub?” “Yes M’Lud” “Look Michael, we both went to the same school, You should know the ‘pubs’ on Fetter lane are not for the likes of us, you really should try ‘Ooh Lah Whiplash’ on Chancery Lane”) Cutting in for the joints;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3014.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3014.jpg.html)
Now I’d have to go get another chisel as these were 1” joints, so off for the Medium Swede, which is 25mm, so not right but close enough. However, although being somewhat sharp, t’was not sharp enough so off to the “grinding station”, only to discover what happens if you leave your nice Japanese Whet-stones wet for too long;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3015.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3015.jpg.html)
Hmm, Crumbs, crumbs! There seems to be lots of conflicting advice about these (strangely enough), I’d suggest either drying and refacing them every time you use them, or, buying new chisels every time you need to make summat! Shimm shimm shimm and a bit of assault and battery to some wood. I found I was still not getting great joints as this wood chunks out a lot, so I got a 1” (25mm) spade bit and used a motor to remove a lot of it first, the finish seemed to end up better that way;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3018.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3018.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3019.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3019.jpg.html)
Now it was time to start marking out the middle rafters so, line them up so the top end is above the back face of the store;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3020.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3020.jpg.html)
….mark out which one is which and where the birds mouth’s going to be;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3021.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3021.jpg.html)
And then stick ‘em in, temporary like, with wedges;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3032.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3032.jpg.html)
And that’s as far as I got in about 4 hours. For whatever reason, it knackered me out. Oh and then the apprentice woke up. “wotsat, who’s er, ah, got any Hob-nobs?”
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3007.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2015/_DSC3007.jpg.html)
-
Awemawson
Thanks for looking closely :thumbup: (At least I thought I saw a comment from you about the floor, but it seems to have gone now :scratch:).
The "shelves" or "floor", if that's the bit you mean, is actually on four joists. The end joists are 1" in from the posts. There are two "tie-beams" 1" up from the position of the joists on the end posts. So the floor is actually on a joist and wedged under the tie-beams on the sides. Very well wedged! I had to knock 'em in sideways with the "big wooden hitting stick". They aint going nowhere in a hurry, screws or no screws. The only screws are two each end on the boards to keep them from shifting "fore or aft" or "athwarships". Not sure how clear the following are but they show the arrangement.
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC2986.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC2986.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2995.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2014/_DSC2995.jpg.html)
In fact, the structure doesn't really need the lower tie-beams at the sides, but they act as stops to stop the bottom logs rolling out the sides, plus I think it might look odd without them. The thing is, all the joists and two angle braces are mainly hidden under the boards.
-
Ross,
I had looked at the ends of your shelves where you have an upper batten, but hadn't spotted that they were also resting on battens below, so I deleted my posting as it was utter tosh :bang:
Andrew
-
Thanks Andrew :thumbup:
Don't worry about pointing out the mistakes, there's probably loads and it's always good to get helpful advice from someone else. It was an easy thing to think. :wave:
Ross
-
Hi Ross , I have just been reading your post, you are making a cracking job of it :drool: :thumbup:and having done similar type things before realise how much time it takes to do this type of job and also how much consentration is needed not to do things the wrong way around etc :palm:
Keep up the good work :clap:
Cheers Mick.
-
Hi Ross , I have just been reading your post, you are making a cracking job of it :drool: :thumbup:and having done similar type things before realise how much time it takes to do this type of job and also how much consentration is needed not to do things the wrong way around etc :palm:
Keep up the good work :clap:
Cheers Mick.
Thanks Mick :wave:
-
Phewee, two days work to write up. We had friends round for tea last night, jolly tasty they were too! But it’s put me a day behind keeping updated.
I think last time I’d put the end-rafters on and cut slots for the normal rafters, but not cut in the birds mouths. So, with all the rafters in place, I strapped The Big Austrian across the rafters;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3037.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3037.jpg.html)
…and measured the drop to the end boards;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3039.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3039.jpg.html)
I could then mark up the rafter and squared back;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3040.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3040.jpg.html)
I could then cut out the birds mouths;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3044.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3044.jpg.html)
These boards were “waney edged” I think it’s called, with bark along the edges on one side;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3043.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3043.jpg.html)
Then I could start putting the rafters in;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3045.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3045.jpg.html)
I found one was a little out;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3046.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3046.jpg.html)
..so I recut the other birds mouth;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3047.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3047.jpg.html)
And then they were all in;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3048.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3048.jpg.html)
I wanted to mark out the front edge of the roof, so set the distance from the top of the end rafters, in multiples of 3 inches to where the front looked okay, I used the 3 inch measure as the “shingles” were 6”. I cut a kerf in the rafter to slot the tape in;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3049.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3049.jpg.html)
Then I could clamp up The Big Austrian to mark out the ends of each rafter to get a good straight line;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3050.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3050.jpg.html)
Then I squared down for the rafter ends and marked out the “bottom” of the rafter, on one, to use as a template;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3051.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3051.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3052.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3052.jpg.html)
Then a bit of ZZZd ZZZe ZZZd ZZZe;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3053.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3053.jpg.html)
And then I could cut the end rafter from the template, I also cut away some of the internal support, so it wouldn’t be seen so easily;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3054.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3054.jpg.html)
..and before we knew it, a bunch of rafters;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3055.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3055.jpg.html)
Some how, all my slots were a wee bit wider than necessary, so I cut some mini-wedges;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3057.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3057.jpg.html)
to wedge the doo-dahs;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3058.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3058.jpg.html)
….and then bashed some nails in to hold them down;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3059.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3059.jpg.html)
And then I could put the first three battens on;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3061.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3061.jpg.html)
The first two were on edge and the third was flat, this was to take account of the front row of shingles not having another shingle to rest on. I used a rule to mark a straight line from the top of the front batten down to the third;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3060.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3060.jpg.html)
…..then apply the noisy blue machine to get a smooth planed line (not);
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3063.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3063.jpg.html)
We’ll not get too worried about that, let’s just put some more battens on shall we;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3065.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3065.jpg.html)
…and then we’ll cut up some shingles;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3067.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3067.jpg.html)
I placed the shingles on the front battens, starting on a centre(ish) line, with a ¼” overhang, drilled holes for two nails at the top (to prevent splitting) and DDDRRRRRLLL, Bang;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3068.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3068.jpg.html)
I also pinned the front of the shingles down to prevent movement. These pins are just plain steel wire, so will rust out in time;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3069.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3069.jpg.html)
and voila, two rows of shingles;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3071.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3071.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/_DSC3072.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/_DSC3072.jpg.html)
That was yesterday, and today ZZZd ZZZe ZZd ZZe, BANG BANG BASH;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3087.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3087.jpg.html)
A finished log store! I must say I’m well chuffed with the result (and even more chuffed with some of the jokes I’ve come up with along the way). I generally enjoyed doing this and felt working in the garden, with only a bit of staging for a workbench was quite liberating. I’ve learnt a lot and had some good repartee with people on this site. I hope you enjoyed watching and had as much fun as I did.
Here’s a few details;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3088.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3088.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3089.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3089.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3090.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3090.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3091.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3091.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3092.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3092.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3093.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3093.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3096.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3096.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3097.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3097.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3098.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3098.jpg.html)
Here’s what’s left of the £150 of wood;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3099.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3099.jpg.html)
And here it is gone;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3100.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3100.jpg.html)
Thanks for watching and thanks for all the friendly and helpful comments. Cheery bye!
-
Hi Ross,
I enjoyed it - very good :thumbup: :clap:
Will there be any sides?
:beer:
DaveH
-
Hi Ross,
I enjoyed it - very good :thumbup: :clap:
Will there be any sides?
:beer:
DaveH
I was thinking about that, Pete or Pekka mentioned having slats to hold stuff in but let air circulate, or have removable panels. It wasn't planned in. I'll wait to see how things work out. The mark 1 version doesn't and seems fine. The issue would be whether the logs fall out or if the "wet" gets in. Some kind of divider would probably help too. I think routing a slot down the centre of the posts would give the option of removable bits of batten.
Cheers Dave :wave:
-
Well done I've enjoyed the build and the humor! Now that it is done did you let your apprentice go or keep him on?
-
Well done I've enjoyed the build and the humor! Now that it is done did you let your apprentice go or keep him on?
Well, he wont shift anything, fetch anything, steals the Hob-nobs and is very cheeky and I can't see him earning much from any work :scratch:, but he's actually quite good company and very affectionate, I think I'll keep him on :loco:
Thanks for watching Tom
-
Well done - smart and practical.
I've never put on a shingle roof so am talking about something I know nothing, but I had always presumed that the grain of the shingles was laid to the fall of the roof giving the water a far better chance of run off and better watertightness if a shingle splits. I'd also assumed that it would have sarking felt or its modern equivalent laid to the roof before battening as you would with tiles or slates.
-
Hi there, Ross and all,
I enjoyed this thread very much. Ross, if only the car parking was easier around your gaff :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: , I might have come over for a cultural exchange visit or two.
I agree with Andrew about the grain direction of shingles but also I understand that proper shingles are riven, not sawn. I don't know what species of wood would be used for that, perhaps our American friends will tell us?
I bet there'll be someone making them at the next Milland Rural Fair!
On some jobs, my father would first hold each nail head down on something massive and strike the point with his hammer to blunt the tip - he reckoned this made the nail cut its way through the wood fibres instead of wedging between them, thus reducing the tendency for splitting. I've tried it and it works!
-
Well done - smart and practical.
I've never put on a shingle roof so am talking about something I know nothing, but I had always presumed that the grain of the shingles was laid to the fall of the roof giving the water a far better chance of run off and better watertightness if a shingle splits. I'd also assumed that it would have sarking felt or its modern equivalent laid to the roof before battening as you would with tiles or slates.
:Doh:
Awemawson, you have spotted two of my deliberate mistakes! :Doh:
I don't know much about roof coverings, so was using feather board, as it's wedge shaped in profile I put it on thin end to the top, so the grain's across the roof. If I did it again, I'd follow what you're saying, which seems right and probably use parallel faced board. On mark 1 there's a lot of problems with splits and curling of the shingles. I'd thought about some kind of barrier, roof felt or whatever, but couldn't be bothered if the truth were told. I'm sort of hoping the overlaps will keep some wet stuff out. However as I miscalculated the number of boards, twice :bang:. the overlap actually decreases toward the top as I'm one run of shingles down. However I think this blends the top run in with the rest. Let's just hope the drying action of not-wet days, is compensation for wet penetration on wet days. If you look at the inside photo of the roof, you can see the gaps!
Well observed and I'll follow your advice or look up a book :coffee: for mark 3. Thanks for the comments :beer:
-
I agree with Andrew about the grain direction of shingles but also I understand that proper shingles are riven, not sawn. I don't know what species of wood would be used for that, perhaps our American friends will tell us?
I bet there'll be someone making them at the next Milland Rural Fair!
On some jobs, my father would first hold each nail head down on something massive and strike the point with his hammer to blunt the tip - he reckoned this made the nail cut its way through the wood fibres instead of wedging between them, thus reducing the tendency for splitting. I've tried it and it works!
Hiya Pete :wave:
I think cedar is a popular waterproof choice, though I can't remember if that's traditionally British (chestnut?), and it's split with a froe traditionally here. That's another learning curve to go through :coffee: plus learning how to put them on and which way round.
I think I heard about the nail trick, but forgot it. I'd love to learn all these old ways before they're forgotten.
cheers Pete and thanks for your kind comments.
Ross
-
Ross,
I think it is very well made with all the proper joints and all.
Being as you have shown me yours, I show you mine :D
:beer:
DaveH
-
Ross,
I think it is very well made with all the proper joints and all.
Being as you have shown me yours, I show you mine :D
:beer:
DaveH
Thanks Dave
-
That is very nice. Don't worry about any small hickups. You said it would be just to learn stuff (an I think you enjoyed some sunny afternoons, didn't you?).
Showed this thread to my wife and she would like me to make one like that just for look of it, and shorter walk to proper storage.
Pekka
-
Ross
It's nice to see that you took the extra time to use some joints to hold the structure together rather than just screws or nails. The nails would have been faster but the use of joints will be appreciated more. As others have said Ross, job well done. Thanks for showing us how it was built and for the way in which you descrbed it. :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Cheers :beer:
Don
-
That is very nice. Don't worry about any small hickups. You said it would be just to learn stuff (an I think you enjoyed some sunny afternoons, didn't you?).
Showed this thread to my wife and she would like me to make one like that just for look of it, and shorter walk to proper storage.
Pekka
Ooh, careful, that's how I got into this in the first place, now I've made Mark 2, Mark 1 has had improvements requested by the "better half". :doh: You'll be making one for everyone before you know it.
-
Red Cedar is the material of choice here, and it is hand-split. We call them"shakes", I don't know why.
Mosey in the new Jersey
-
And finally, all in place and wood delivered during a deluge and stacked;
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3107.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3107.jpg.html)
(http://i617.photobucket.com/albums/tt252/RossJarvis/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3108.jpg) (http://s617.photobucket.com/user/RossJarvis/media/Log%20Store/log%20store%2016/_DSC3108.jpg.html)
It doesn't look too level with the fence but that can wait, particularly with 1/2 ton of ash in it! :wave:
(If anyone from Scandinavia is curious, that, apparently, is supposed to be about half a winter's worth of burning wood for our climate. I'd probably use that a lot quicker myself!).
-
Easy to underestimate how much wood you'll get through.
We've probably used at least half that volume already in the recent colder snap. Admittedly it's only willow and burns very quickly when dry, but - hey - it was free.
I've stacked (I think) 11 jumbo 1 ton bags full in the 'ready to use' log store. (They don't hold a ton of willow), and have another four on stand by under cover, with a further 10 out in the open. I'm sure we'll use all the covered ones this winter. I have another 10 jumbos of Yew ready for next year, but burning the willow first as otherwise it'll rot away to nothing.
-
Well Ross, that does look rather splendid :clap:
:beer:
DaveH
-
Cheers guys.
Awemawson, as Pekka said, this type of store is more of an "entertainment". Toni only has one small log burner to assist the Central Heating, possibly more as an aesthetic assistance. She's hoping this'll last about 3 months, I could easily see lot that going in our house in 4 weeks or less. It's Ash, which reportedly burns very well and leaves little 'ash'. Here in Hampshire, where we're closer to France than we are to most of the UK, the weather's generally very mild. A week of -1 or so and everyone complains of a new Ice-age!!
-
Log stores are bit too flash for the fringes of civilisation.