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Gallery, Projects and General => Oooops! => Topic started by: ukazak on March 09, 2012, 05:55:42 AM

Title: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 09, 2012, 05:55:42 AM
Hi Guys,
I am all new, to machining and to this site. I made a "grave" mistake, that "I know now" . Couple of years back I bought my mill (MFL 20) and just pluged in and start playing. All went fine other than couple of times stripped gears and changed.. everything was smooth and nice, up until I decided to change collet chuck...! it refused to come off... Yes, I tried to hit the drawbar as hard as my heart would alowe and oiled, WD40'd and evry trick I heard.. but, arbor is stuck.. No, it wont come off... I am doomed live with this stuck collet chuck arbor.
I didnt have any need to change for mandrane or any other reason to move it than.. or now really.. but it just bothers me, I should have removed the thing and get the rust and dust, all cleaned up when I receive the machine before I use I guess...
Well, what now? anybody has any ideas.. I can take the headstock down and apart it but, it would it be any use at all? what shall I do..? can anybody help me on this?
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Fergus OMore on March 09, 2012, 08:03:40 AM
I've no idea of what sort chuck is jammed but sometimes two opposing steel taper wedges progressively tightenned will succeed when brute force and bloody ignorance( my usual technique) fail.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: andyf on March 09, 2012, 09:09:35 AM
If you don't want to hammer any harder in case you damage the bearings or bend the column, and if wedges don't work, you could try removing the spindle, turning it upside down and slamming the end of the drawbar down on to your bench.

Andy
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Miner on March 09, 2012, 09:19:04 AM
I'm 100% in agreement with Norman and Andy on this. You do NOT want to be hamming on that drawbar very much. There's not a precision bearing maker in the world that wants to see impact force transmitted thru the bearings.

I tried Googling your mill, But not much came up. So what type of mill is it? What taper is it? What type of collet chuck? It may require the head to be removed and then taken somewhere that has a press. Support the bottom of the spindle and then press the collet chuck out.

You could try tightening a rod into a collet, Tighten the other end into the mills vice and  Use that to help pull on the collet chuck while tapping on the loosened drawbar. It might work? I REALLY hope that's not a R-8 taper and the taper spun in the spindle shearing off the internal set screw though. If so, You might never get it apart.

Pete
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 09, 2012, 10:00:20 AM
Oh! Ooops, I made mistake on the machine type. it is " Optimum BF 20 Vario and MT2 /10mm Draw rod"
Thank you all, Andy, Fergus and Pete,

Er32 type of collet chuck and arbor stuck. and If I hit the drawbar on the top, which I dont like at all  (once so hard that feeding arm on side had almost a quarter turn like I was to drilling...) and I know than it will not come off by brutal force as Fergus said.
I dont know if  spindle will come out from either openning while the chuck is still attached..(?)
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 09, 2012, 10:19:47 AM
You could try tightening a rod into a collet, Tighten the other end into the mills vice and  Use that to help pull on the collet chuck while tapping on the loosened drawbar. It might work? I REALLY hope that's not a R-8 taper and the taper spun in the spindle shearing off the internal set screw though. If so, You might never get it apart.

Pete

You mean a smaller draw bar from under side screw to the chucks arbor and pull up while is in mills vice and small taps to the losened draw bar at the top?
Now that I havent tried before... I will soak is WD40 overnight and try that first thing in the morning..

Taking to ındustrial park and using press.. I am sure will demage something else inside or outside?
Thanks
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: philf on March 09, 2012, 10:21:23 AM
Is it possible to use the ER32 chuck nut to pull the chuck out?

To try you would probably need to machine a sleeve which would slide over the chuck and then a thick (say 6mm) split washer on top fitting between the sleeve and the end of the spindle.

The significant force generated wouldn't be seen by the bearings at all.

Cheers.

Phil.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Fergus OMore on March 09, 2012, 10:28:59 AM
Obviously, you have something mis-aligned- and twisted.

As a follow up, stuck tapers are the normal for car and lorry suspension rod ends and the accessory firms have extractors. In fact, I have several- left from those days.

Much of the removal of tapers is by feel- which is almost impossible to describe in words. It all depends on just how much space that is available. I have used a pair of cold chisels to take up the distance and then a pair of screwdrivers- opposed to way that chisels are placed.
Tightenning up has to to be evenly made.

Years ago, I extracted a flywheel/clutch on a 997cc Mini cooper which had fretted onto the crankshaft. There was a 1/2" drilled plate with three High Tensile bolts almost snapping and the extractor bolt was 1" stuff.  I lay on the engine whilst my father hit the extractor bolt with a 14lb sledge hammer.

You may have to be prepared to sacrifice the least important part and I suspect that the spindle is the most valuable part. Crack the bearings- if all else fails.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Miner on March 09, 2012, 10:30:39 AM
Actually Phils got a real good idea that just might work. :beer: A good company with a press would certainly know how to use it to not do any damage. But what I meant about using the rod in the collet chuck and tightened in the mills vise was as you've mention pull up on the spindle while tapping on the drawbar. Just don't try to apply too much force with any of this. One way or another that Morse taper should come out. But I'd think Phils idea has the best chance of working.

Pete
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: David Jupp on March 09, 2012, 11:01:40 AM
One option is to strip down the mill spindle, apply some force in the correct direction via one of the idea above, additionally warm the spindle (but don't go mad).  If done fairly quickly the spindle will expand just a little before the heat penetrate to the chuck arbor.  This might just tip things in your favour.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 09, 2012, 12:08:08 PM
Is it possible to use the ER32 chuck nut to pull the chuck out?

To try you would probably need to machine a sleeve which would slide over the chuck and then a thick (say 6mm) split washer on top fitting between the sleeve and the end of the spindle.

The significant force generated wouldn't be seen by the bearings at all.

Cheers.

Phil.


Thank you for all of you guys, as I was lookin around in the net, and found out that, this is no easy thinking to tacle and still unsolved problem yet, I am not the only one got the stuck arbor  the problem. so far Phil's idea  of a sleeve and collet nut and combination of some warming might put the end of this globaly suffered dilema. There was even one suggestion that, thake out the drawbar completely and lean the chuck against the side of mill's vice and give slow power  turn a while..
The chucks diameter is 33 and height to spindle rim is 72mm. I think it will work but, I hope I got enough power to tighten the nut. Is there any danger of stripping the threts of the chuck or the nut to cause jamming?
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Fergus OMore on March 09, 2012, 01:01:33 PM
I think that I have got it right but there is a 60+ page manual on the net. OK, it will not be a quick solution to strip the headstock down to get at the spindle with attached remaining bits but it all looks possible.

Before this, I would insert a proper close fitting rod down and give it a hard belt or three. What you are doing is you are belting the tapped end of the taper shank with a threaded draw bolt-- and that does not do much. Again, forget the WD-40. All that you are doing is removing the grease from the bearings- which if you go on like that, you will run( Brinell)  them-- and have to take the lot to bits anyway to replace them.

Sorry but that is my view- from a distance!
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: mklotz on March 09, 2012, 01:08:02 PM
Why does everyone think WD40 is a lubricant?  It's a bug spray that can be used to remove stubborn labels.  Nothing more.

Pour a dram of warm Kroil down the spindle, wait eight hours, then tap gently with a solid rod.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Jonny on March 09, 2012, 02:20:43 PM
The significant force generated wouldn't be seen by the bearings at all.

I beg to differ, whats holding the spindle in? Lower bearing

Three ways, Petes way but push up on drill feed handle whilst giving the drawbar loosened 1 rev a short hard crack. Its a knack not severe brute force but more speed and momentum following through.
The more you do it, the easier it becomes. To give you some idea how easy on MT3 i have changed over 60 times in the last day and half, 1lb hammer permanently left to the side hand held on stale just behind the head, no leverage.

Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: philf on March 09, 2012, 02:46:03 PM
The significant force generated wouldn't be seen by the bearings at all.

I beg to differ, whats holding the spindle in? Lower bearing

Three ways, Petes way but push up on drill feed handle whilst giving the drawbar loosened 1 rev a short hard crack. Its a knack not severe brute force but more speed and momentum following through.
The more you do it, the easier it becomes. To give you some idea how easy on MT3 i have changed over 60 times in the last day and half, 1lb hammer permanently left to the side hand held on stale just behind the head, no leverage.

Sorry Jonny - I beg to differ with you.

I am talking about pulling down on the chuck by pushing the collet nut against the nose of the spindle itself - not the spindle housing!

Also - the chances of stripping any threads are very slim. I tighten up my ER32 collets with a lot of torque applied with 2 big spanners - and my ER32 threads aren't hardened.

Phil.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: philf on March 09, 2012, 04:08:40 PM
Jonny,

See the attached drawing which perhaps explains my proposed method better than words.

Cheers.

Phil.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: PekkaNF on March 09, 2012, 05:10:03 PM
How about putting it into tension like above illustration shows and spraying inside of the collet chuck with cold spray. On that sort of situation combination of static pull and thermo shock has opened up stuff. Another thing that has helped me a lot is to open drawbar just a little before giving it whack to it. I think that there must be pretty many thread to transmit the blow. Same thing on steering joint tappers on auto.

Once I was despairing with my fly rod, it simply refused to open and four piece rod is not very handy to transport when one ferrule in middle won't open. Not ideal situation in Oaxaca when had to go home next day. Tried everything and finally hosed it down with a cold water. It came unstuck - practically with no force.

PekkaNF
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 10, 2012, 11:17:19 AM
I tried today, 
Turned a close fitting sleeve and washer. it turned a few lines of thread, than came to a point that looked like trying to unscrewing a welded bolt.. wouldnt turn more. maybe I have to try to apply more power to it with a friends help.
one thing is for sure, one can easily depend his life on it. I did not put the chuck in there, it came on with the machine. it may have set a couple of years before it was sold to me, and I used couple of years and not removed once. So, it may be frozen until the death apart. There are no bending or twisting evidence on it, for it is spinning really  like you wouldnt know it was spinning, if if you didnt hear the machine running. if there was a twist it would wobble a bit..
may be they had placed the chuck right after test run (while machine and spşndle hot) snd there was a piece or two dust in it.. than sit there for couple of years and get rusted..
Tomorrow I will try again with doubled force to give turn or two more... if not, I may be to take down the head and get the spindle out to take it to a press shop.. hpefully, we get it out without bending the spindle or demage it someway..
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 10, 2012, 11:30:24 AM
who ever discovered this "Morse Cone" thing, did realy a good job, I must say. Could never thought theoraticaly is possible that thing works..! no bolting, no screws, no glue, no welding..  but, it holds. It is amazing..!
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: philf on March 10, 2012, 12:50:44 PM
Ukazak,

I forgot to mention to grease the threads, washer and sleeve to convert more of your turning effort into trying to extract the taper.

I think someone has mentioned trying to rapidly cool the internal taper. I have some freezing spray for fault finding in electronics but you can also get freezing sprays for plumbing. I think you'd have to put as much tension as possible with the nut and then quickly cool the chuck.

I've found the opposite works on a stuck crank on a bike - tighten up the extractor as much as you dare (the threads are quite fine and only into aluminium) and then pour a kettle of boiling water over the crank. It may be difficult to get enough heat into the spindle quickly enough without damaging anything and cooling the chuck may possibly work better.



Good Luck.

Phil.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: b4dyc on March 10, 2012, 01:25:20 PM
Firstly, a hello to all  :)

I have a similar looking mill to you (it has a M12 drawbar though)
The way I have to remove my collet is to undo the draw bar while stopping the spindle rotating in the quill it then presses the collet out. It does this because of the way its designed with a cap that fits on the end of the quill underneath the black plastic cap at the top. Its a way to remove them without hammering the draw bar.
 Always takes a good bit of undoing and often hear the little clink as it frees itself.
This is my millhttp://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/MT3_Spindle.html#a29 (http://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/MT3_Spindle.html#a29)

Not saying yours is the same but hope it helps you out!

Andy
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Jonny on March 10, 2012, 03:37:13 PM
Thanks Phil for the sketch, that will do the job no stress on bearings, with you now.
Its only ER stuff though, most of us will not use.

Andy I have heard and seen similar arrangents but limits its usefullness. ie dont want drawbar in with a drill or the need to swap drawbar over to different thread.
Easy to make, just a U shaped bracket close fit to top of hex drawbar. Perhaps a swing out jobby aiding easy removal and was thinking this way fro pneumatic jobby.

Cant beat the hammer :coffee:
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Fergus OMore on March 11, 2012, 04:21:51 AM
c'ant beat the hammer :coffee:

What is missing in the discussion is the 'bloody ignorance' bit.

The difference between the areas of the ends of 8mm and 10mm draw bars is 50 sq.mm whereas the larger is half as much again at 78sq.mm.

Pi R squared- nothing more :loco:

If, as I suggested, the maximum diameter is used the area and the force which can be safely used is considerably increased.

I don't know what that available area is- but it is worth sitting with a pocket calculator and working the thing out.
It's a lot cheaper and quicker to do than to ruin both the spindle and the chuck body.  The cost of  a bit of round is a fraction of the potential damage. What has to be worked out is the bend in what are two thin draw rods when a thicker one is far more suitable.

Engineering is not merely the ability to chew a bit of metal to a different size-- and photograph it- and get applause. It needs a modicum of school arithmetic. :hammer:
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: lordedmond on March 11, 2012, 04:29:04 AM
the word tapping is causing the problem  get the tension on as above then ( I use a two pound copper face hammer) and give it a swift belt no tip tapping it will need a high quick impact . when not if you get it out make sure you clean the male and female parts completely and always fiit dry with only just a nip up on the draw bar not much more that 1/4 turn from the slack taken up

Stuart
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Fergus OMore on March 11, 2012, 05:28:48 AM
The deed is done but  the problem is age old. It dates back to the time of Nelson when the British Admiralty insisted on huge heads on bolts because the British sailors used too much muscle- and twisted the heads off.

We've now got to undo a problem which should never have arisen. All that a draw bar has to do is to just stop a mating pair of tapers from slipping under load. :bang: :bang: :bang:
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: lordedmond on March 11, 2012, 08:40:15 AM
for info my draw bar key is a 8mm allen key used one handed that limits the torque you can get on a 3/8 bsw draw bar
then it can be to much

Stuart
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 11, 2012, 10:02:07 AM
Ukazak,

I forgot to mention to grease the threads, washer and sleeve to convert more of your turning effort into trying to extract the taper.

I think someone has mentioned trying to rapidly cool the internal taper. I have some freezing spray for fault finding in electronics but you can also get freezing sprays for plumbing. I think you'd have to put as much tension as possible with the nut and then quickly cool the chuck.

I've found the opposite works on a stuck crank on a bike - tighten up the extractor as much as you dare (the threads are quite fine and only into aluminium) and then pour a kettle of boiling water over the crank. It may be difficult to get enough heat into the spindle quickly enough without damaging anything and cooling the chuck may possibly work better.



Good Luck.

Phil.

Thanks to all,
Phil,
I noticed today, that the washer I turned and splitted is not properly functioning. little slop between the sleeve and washer is slightly tipping one side, so, it doesnt equally receive presure spread to entire diameter  from the sleeve. so, only the half of power we apply is transfered to spindle. I will try another washer with wider outer diameter. logic say this has to work.
Note; threats on the chucks nut have showen no signs of any damage at all...
I may also extend the lenght of the arm of the wrench with a pipe or so for more power.. no?
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Jonny on March 11, 2012, 04:03:58 PM

What is missing in the discussion is the 'bloody ignorance' bit.

Sorry, making a mountain out of a mole hill.
I dont have a robust US or English machine and limited to two cheap chinese mills. So far the younger is 8 years old no spindle, collet or chuck damage not as a hobby. As before just Thursday and Friday last week alone 60 times the tooling was changed in and out the MT3, now you know where i'm coming from. 15 to 25 secs to change a tool in the MT3 job done, even quicker just changing a milling cutter.
Its a knack if anyone wants to come round and video for proof just let me know, i'll get the shovel out.

Its easy to replace or make a drawbar and i tighten mine up full force 3/8", M10 and M12. Dont want the cutting forces overcoming the tightness, it it has happened a few times where just nipped up and forgotten.

Perhaps the easiest way of working the tool loose in the MT2 or 3 is to slacken drawbar off or remove and take a cut. Lateral forces MT are not very good at which will eventually dislodge and drop out. Vibration works as well.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 12, 2012, 02:49:25 PM
Thank you all,
Well, I run the mill all day, today without the drawbar attached.. hoping to see if it is going to fall off like a lose tooth or not. So far it is holding and no signs of anything... Not knowing what to expect realy,. drawbar by my side to remind me, that stubborn chuck might fall any unexpected time and redy to hit the panic button.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Swarfing on March 12, 2012, 06:30:31 PM
Not sure if this would help or many approve but i had a chuck arbor stuck on a pillar drill with a hollow through to the top. It was given to me by a neighbor who complained it had never run true so never used it. He had owned it for 10 years and had been sat in a shed. To free it at the advise of a friend i poured vinegar down it and left it over night. In the morning there was a pool of brown liquid and a tiny tap it fell out. The problem was what looked like a small amount of swarf had been introduced at the factory. A bit of wire wool and it was as good as new. In my case i had nothing to loose as it cost me nothing other than vinegar.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Fergus OMore on March 13, 2012, 03:42:40 AM
I think that we have to thank our Rob and DoubleBoost for reminding me of perhaps the simplest solution.

Simply turn a metal dowel to a fairly tight fit in the top of the hollow spindle. Find a suitable bottle cork( Happy Birthday, Rob) and fill the hollow spindle to the top with hydraulic oil( Thanks John- Andy Barton and so on) Insert the cork, follow up with the tight fitting dowel-- and hit it. :hammer:

It's boring, it's ancient and despite all the so called expert criticism, it actually works. It is a crude hydraulic jack.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: doubleboost on March 13, 2012, 06:30:08 PM
I remember using this method to remove spigot shaft bearings from morris 1000s :) :) :)
We used to pack the bearing with grease put a old first motion shaft in the hole and whack the bugger
I would not like to think of the pressure generated but it worked :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
John
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Fergus OMore on March 13, 2012, 07:19:40 PM
Yes, John,

I did say that the male lot of my family were all blacksmiths.  :hammer:

Your idea is splendid. If the poor wee soul has been pouring WD-40 and summat called Kroil- whatever that is, down the lot, there will be sweet nothin' left  in the ball races. Grease, what a good idea :beer: Re-pack the bearings. Unusual but heigh ho-- I like it. :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Fergus OMore on March 16, 2012, 09:06:47 AM
Whilst Rome wasn't built in a day, there should be progress with the chuck by now.

Don't keep us in suspense :bow: :hammer:
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 21, 2012, 06:24:58 PM
well,
it has been more than ten days now, machine is running without the drawbar. at least 4hrs a day, up hill, down hill, fast and slow, with fly cutting, slot cutting and 16mm end mills and all... nothing hapened so far. running just as usuall. ıt just doesnt give..
unal

Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Miner on March 21, 2012, 06:42:56 PM
Have it pressed out at a good machine shop.

Pete
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: doubleboost on March 21, 2012, 06:54:30 PM
Hi
Have you tried a good fitting punch and really hitting it with a propper hammer
Tapping it will only swell the end up and make it worse
Failing that it is a strip down job and press it out
I have seen people tapping things with hammers  that really need a couple of good blows
John
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Miner on March 21, 2012, 07:33:23 PM
OK, :Doh: One more time, I've worked in open pit mines for a long time. And I've used large and heavy duty equipment to position bearings for millwrights and mechanics that were far too heavy to be humanly lifted and put in place. These are not "precision" bearings, Just industrial grade roller and ball bearings. They are ALWAYS installed and handled very delicately. I just plugged into Google "Precision bearings and shock" A quote "100 grams of force from a distance of 4 mm can be enough to cause brinelling of the bearings".

Pete
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: doubleboost on March 21, 2012, 07:41:54 PM
Hi
It is very simple really :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye:
You hit it and it comes out (it will)
Then you replace the bearings ect
Or you strip the spindle and have it pressed out (then replace the bearings)
John
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: lordedmond on March 22, 2012, 03:41:33 AM
well,
it has been more than ten days now, machine is running without the drawbar. at least 4hrs a day, up hill, down hill, fast and slow, with fly cutting, slot cutting and 16mm end mills and all... nothing hapened so far. running just as usuall. ıt just doesnt give..
unal

you need a bigger hammer hit though not at its a quick sharp clout that shifts thing not a series of taffy hammer taps , I have used a MT3 mill for years , yes the chuck that came with it was in well and needed a good dose of the manchester screwdriver ,but the mill is still OK and the bearings are still fine


Stuart
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 22, 2012, 05:06:57 PM
I have been trying almost everything has been suggested here..  One by one. Accept the hydraulic thing which I haven’t comprehend the technical. I am all alone and trying.. I don’t mean any disrespect, for I value and appreciate all and each one of your suggestions and recommendations.  And I am applying them with best of my ability. I am truly sorry lf I caused to get you frustrated gentleman. Maybe, because I am not an engineer to begin with. Yes, I love to play with these machines and do machining, and have no real excuse for it. I am not here to waste anybody’s time. I am just trying to learn and discover… all I have done accomplish up until now is making QCTP set, Cam lock to my tailstock, and couple of steam engines of Elmers. I am sorry to trouble you all, I can see now that here is only for high “scholar” and “pro” site. I am truly sorry, but please don’t feel frustrated, I am sure someone has learned something out of all this.. if nobody, I sure did.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 22, 2012, 05:11:08 PM
here
, one of them
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Rob.Wilson on March 22, 2012, 05:15:25 PM
Hi ukazak

Were about's  do you live ? ,,, there could be a member  local that could lend a hand  :dremel:


Rob


Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 22, 2012, 05:17:20 PM
here what happened
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 22, 2012, 05:21:22 PM
I live in a small town (Mersin ) at south coast of Turkey.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 22, 2012, 05:28:04 PM
I am the one and "only" amongs 80Million who has the interested in model machining. we dont have clubs or sociaeties or any groups in this country to associate at all. I dont even have anybody to share or show or discuss..  I have been considered as a "fool" to be occupied with such things... may be, they are right!
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Rob.Wilson on March 22, 2012, 05:33:39 PM
No were me then  :Doh:  ,,,,,,, i have been a bit future up the cost Bodrum  :) 


Just a thought ,,, have you tried putting  a length of bar/lump of timber   between the quill  and the table ,, then giving the draw bar a GOOD WHACK with the hammer .


Rob
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 22, 2012, 05:38:41 PM
my small workshop
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: DaveH on March 22, 2012, 05:38:53 PM
Ukazak,

Everthing is fine - you are not the problem, you are doing OK.

A couple of the members who posted just need to show a bit more patience and understanding, and stop behaving like smart'ies, yes you two, for goodness sake give the guy a chance.

 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: DaveH on March 22, 2012, 05:44:57 PM
Ukazak,

You have a nice workshop there,  I could perhaps come over and offer a hand or two.

Is there any where I can park my jumbo  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Rob.Wilson on March 22, 2012, 05:46:31 PM
 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: looks like your well set up  :dremel:


Rob :)
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 22, 2012, 05:51:35 PM
thank you dave, but, It kind of hurts, when you get chewed by the guys you look up to... I am not some kind of hoodlum, to make anybody mad at.
Just, simply ignore me.
frm now on, I will just sit and watch. try to learn and dont ask!
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: doubleboost on March 22, 2012, 05:52:38 PM
Ukazak
That is a nice shop you have :thumbup:
It is a shame you can not get some practical help
John
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: DaveH on March 22, 2012, 06:06:50 PM
Ukazak,

Come on mate please don't do that, just carry on as you were doing. Don't let just two comments get to you.

Sometimes these things do happen - they shouldn't but sadly they do.

Please stay and ask whatever you like, opinions and advice will always be given in a heplful manner, and some members will have to realise whether you accept or use any advice is up to you.

So is everything OK

 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 22, 2012, 06:40:17 PM
Thank you, Rob, Dave and John, Mr. Fergus and all.
Dave you are always welcome, any time. we'll find a place for your jumbo,
Ron, I have 2.5mX3m room for a workshop right next o living room. I could go down to garage but, I like everthing under my hand and easy access because sometime 3Am in the morning, I get up and do some work till the sun up. all in my pjamas...
and kids can come in and ask for help for their science homework, wife, mumbles about the chips in my coffee mug. when I start machining, they just turn up the music louder. so we all are happy family. kids love the little machines, my wife looks at them as she was looking at a piece of jewlery.
John, I have almost everything I need in that little shop. it wasnt easy to gather them at all. I had to order every single piece of tooling from abroad, hassling custums and all. (if I was to avoid cheap Chinese stuff) last time I had a drill bit bended in L shape. that was the last thing I ever bought from shopping mal's harware store.
we dont have specialized stores like you have it there.  (Thanks God!)
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 22, 2012, 06:49:30 PM
Mr Wilson, here are the two engines I made, pictures you ask.. just dont anybody laugh! in one day, I can only take so much!
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: doubleboost on March 22, 2012, 06:54:58 PM
Ukazak
Nothing to laugh about there :clap:  :clap:
Did you work from plans or just build them
Nice to see you using a non digital vernier (lots of people can not read one)
John
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Rob.Wilson on March 22, 2012, 07:05:27 PM
 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: Two mighty fine looking engines you have built there Ukazak  :thumbup: 



I built Elmer's Fancy a few years back  :dremel: 



Rob
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: DaveH on March 22, 2012, 08:11:51 PM
Ukazak,

Well a couple of very nice engines and very well made as well  :thumbup: :clap:

 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 22, 2012, 08:31:07 PM
Thank you,
Those are my first and second, I work them from plans. It was all in inches which I am not custom to, but I converted them to metrics by help of calculator.
When I get enough confidence, I like one of those, horizantal Mill or Factory engines to make, but I gather, they are more complicated, valfs and all. I started to study the plans and converting to metrics.
kind regards,
unal
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Ronkh on March 23, 2012, 01:59:09 AM
DaveH.

I agree with your comment (with me being one of the two members)!

Unal, 

My humble apology to you Sir. Please accept it!
Do not stop showing on here your goodies because of it. I can see how hard and frustrating it must be for you regards lack of fellow modellers in Turkey for when you need advice, and so this is the ideal place to turn to. (Until a plonker like me almost turns you away))

Now then, how do you get your material for your work?
Also, was it hard for you to buy/import your machines and where did you get them from please?
If these are awkward questions then please do not answer them!!

Many kind regards,

Ron.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Fergus OMore on March 23, 2012, 04:37:40 AM
I can see how hard and frustrating it must be for you regards lack of fellow modellers in Turkey for when you need advice, and so this is the ideal place to turn to. (Until a plonker like me almost turns you away))

Now then, how do you get your material for your work?
Also, was it hard for you to buy/import your machines and where did you get them from please?
If these are awkward questions then please do not answer them!!

Many kind regards,

Ron.

I think that you are looking for 'ukazak' in
 http://www.hobitutkunlari.com


or if you can't get it try Googling '  ukazak in mersin, turkey'


Mersin, in case you don't know is a thriving seaport in Turkey with its own university and 10,000 people in its Chamber of Commerce.
Turkey is not a backward country of 80 million peasants but has some 2.5 million imigrant workers in Germany's highly skilled industries.

Well now?
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 23, 2012, 04:55:31 AM
Ron,
There is no need for any apology. Everyone is expressing their thoughts or opinions. It is amazing that how easy for one to forget, his own first days or years.
I can understand the frustrations too, everybody want to see the results of their idea is after applied and NOW! But really, sincerely, it is not easy around here. I appreciate and I am sure other newbie’s too, your time spent to solve the problem.
I broke my band saw blade and took me 3 months to find a spare. (have you ever tried to deal a business with a Chinese lately?)
So, I have to be careful with a “BIG WHACK’S” and hammering things.
Here you can find almost anything as easy as ABC, but for the big industrial machines. Anything smaller than 4MT.. Forget it!
I usually find and purchase the raw material at nearby industrial park. And tools have to make them myself if I can, or, I order them from abroad specialized hardware stores etc.
It is not exactly a rose garden, but I am not complaining.
Kind regards,
Unal
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: DaveH on March 23, 2012, 05:05:58 AM
Unal,

So what is your next plan of attack  :dremel:

 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Stilldrillin on March 23, 2012, 05:18:02 AM
Unal.
I have been only occasionally dropping in, following your problem.....

Some while ago, I had the same problem with my mill. Here is a sketch I made at the time.

(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/p3110001-1.jpg)


The impact forces are taken by the machine table, not the bearings.

One good clout was all it needed!  :thumbup:

Good luck.......

David D

P.S.

Nice engines!  :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 23, 2012, 07:11:45 AM
Thanks, David,
Won’t you think that would have negative impact on spindle housing?
Believe me, one of the firs things that already I tried with two big wooden blokes was that. And, because I couldn’t bear to look at it, a 130Kilo “knowing all pro”, had the one sharp WHACK! with a large blacksmith hammer... Nothing..!, it just doesn’t  budge.
Tried all the chemicals.. it doesn’t enter between the arbor and the spindle to get it loose.
This is why, this weekend I am thinking to take it to pres shop.
And I will inform all.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: DaveH on March 23, 2012, 07:26:14 AM
Hi Unal,

I think that may be a good idea, a press shop should be able to get it loose.

Good luck with it, and please let us know how it all turns out.

 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 23, 2012, 07:27:07 AM
Unal,

So what is your next plan of attack  :dremel:

 :beer:
DaveH

well, 1- this weekend, ask my kind wife to give me a hand to take the head down and apart to take it to Press shop, or
2- I'll just lay a piece of plywood to back of my Q7 to take the whole thing down the industrial park, or
3- still should be on guaranty.. package and send it back to factory to serviced (that means, at least next 6 Months I will be filing my fingernails..)
I know I'll be always thinking only thing left that, I havent tried, about the Hydrolics solution ,shoul I know only how to do it...?
but, by all means, dont want to cause new frustrations

regards,
Unal
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: doubleboost on March 23, 2012, 07:44:55 AM
Unal
The hydraulic method would be to put some grease down the spindle then turn a good fitting drift
The drift is then hit and the energy imparted on to the collet holder
This method is good for bearings in blind holes
I doubt it will move your collet holder if a direct hammer blow will not
John
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 23, 2012, 08:08:16 AM
I can see how hard and frustrating it must be for you regards lack of fellow modellers in Turkey for when you need advice, and so this is the ideal place to turn to. (Until a plonker like me almost turns you away))

Now then, how do you get your material for your work?
Also, was it hard for you to buy/import your machines and where did you get them from please?
If these are awkward questions then please do not answer them!!

Many kind regards,

Ron.

I think that you are looking for 'ukazak' in
 http://www.hobitutkunlari.com


or if you can't get it try Googling '  ukazak in mersin, turkey'


Mersin, in case you don't know is a thriving seaport in Turkey with its own university and 10,000 people in its Chamber of Commerce.
Turkey is not a backward country of 80 million peasants but has some 2.5 million imigrant workers in Germany's highly skilled industries.

Well now?

Mr. Fergus,
The site is a small hobbyists group. Mostly the woodwork stuff. It is own by hardware company I think. I have few of sharing there to see if anyone is interested that I would encounter. But, none so far, maybe I will inspire someone, someday…
A couple of guys asked for how and where to buy mini lathe and I directed them to company where I bought, and one of them happily bought a SEIG and asked me to translate a how to make ball turning from a site he saw, and I had my freshly made wobblers posted to see some interest.. all there is, “nice”, good work”,etc.
Yes, Turkey is no tribes’ country but about model engines or home machinery is not at all yet considered as a hobby because it is quite expensive for most. Therefore, there are not many sources available on this subject. Once, I even thought to start a business who only sels home machinery and equipment store… But, probably it would flank.

So, you guys only few, all around the world who has spend years and gained experience. Amongst yourselves, you are fine and dandy.. More you know easy it gets. Maybe you think everybody has the same experiences and accomplishments’ you have arrived. Well, it is not so. Again maybe you are not aware, but many of us very much value you and very much appreciate of you for being there and advacing. If anyone comes around and proudly show a Wobbler he just succeed to make, you should know that’s is your teaching and there is the fruit. We all learn from you guys.
Kind respect,
Regards,
Unal Kazak
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Fergus OMore on March 23, 2012, 09:20:08 AM
No, my friend, no!  I'm still the boy who came from nowhere with no education in a war torn Britain and who left school at the age of 14.
I'm the peasant boy who grew spinach and sold it in the local market to have a few pennies when my father was injured and we had no money.

Today, things have changed but you asked for help- and I gave it.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: lordedmond on March 23, 2012, 09:56:03 AM
Unal,

So what is your next plan of attack  :dremel:

 :beer:
DaveH

well, 1- this weekend, ask my kind wife to give me a hand to take the head down and apart to take it to Press shop, or
2- I'll just lay a piece of plywood to back of my Q7 to take the whole thing down the industrial park, or
3- still should be on guaranty.. package and send it back to factory to serviced (that means, at least next 6 Months I will be filing my fingernails..)
I know I'll be always thinking only thing left that, I havent tried, about the Hydrolics solution ,shoul I know only how to do it...?
but, by all means, dont want to cause new frustrations

regards,
Unal

the hydro method will not work with a mt2/3 quill because it will have a drift slot in it to extract the mT drill bits , big hole in quill nada hydro pressure , unless this is a R8 which i doubt looking at the pics




as I have said before clout it use stilldrillin method to take the load ( wood is no good it will absorb the blow ) its got to be solid with a quick sharp impact

all this will be of no consequence if the said shank has turned in the quill then we are in a different ball park it could be galled or evan friction welded in

but as a rider if you are more comfortable to take it to a press hop then by all means do so , should have enough room in the Q7

Stuart
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: hopefuldave on March 24, 2012, 09:37:59 AM
Hi Unal,

When I started at my current job the same problem - milling cutter chuck had been stuck in the spindle for about 10 years (the previous 2 engineers had been there that long...) - I ended up making a pair of wedge forks, one bearing against the end of the spindle (with some pieces of flat to take up the inevitable gap), other against the back of the chuck, then pulling them together with 12mm bolts through two pieces of 20x0mm bar - made the wedge angle quite small (5 degrees?) and greased the contact area, took some force on the spanners, but then there was a Big Bang! and the chuck dropped out of the taper! Ordinary mild steel would be fine for all except the bolts and nuts, which should be fairly good quality high-tensile...

Apalling Crap-O-CAD:


Might be worth a try?
Dave H. (the other one)
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: DaveH on March 24, 2012, 01:07:00 PM
Unal,

How did you get on to day.

 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 24, 2012, 02:14:33 PM
If you will not try hydraulics, do the following

1. Lock the quill- and I mean LOCK it
2. Drop the spindle/chuck down to the vice
3. lock it to the vice
4. take a metre long scaffolding pipe onto one of the arms of the windlass
                       and
5. PULL
Oh, brother something will move. I promise, SOMETHING WILL MOVE.

Thanks, Mr. Fergus,
I will try this when everything else fails.

by the way, this remid me of;

The guy had a sick camel, and he would refuse to walk… guy had to call the vet.  Vet arrived, examined the camel for a while, and asked the owner to bring couple of stools. When he got to stools, he put them behind the camel, opened up his doctors’ handbag and took out couple of fire-place bricks. He got on the stools one foot on each stool and stood up so he could reach up high behind the camel. Spread  the camel’s legs apart, reach out and pull camel’s balls behind its legs, as balls to be exposed. He than took the bricks one in each hand… weighed a little, that open up his arms each side.. Than WHAAAM..! Smash hit the camels balls between the bricks..  WOW! The camel took off its eyeballs out, running like crazy… The owner in fry..! Asked to vet.. “Jesus..! Doesn’t this hurt???”.! “No”, said the vet, looking at his hands holding the bricks, “Not, if you keep your fingers off between the bricks, when you hit it…”
kind regards,
Unal

Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 24, 2012, 02:18:53 PM
Unal,

How did you get on to day.

 :beer:
DaveH

Thanks Dave,
would you be so kind and draw this on profile wiev I want to make sure that I understan it truly... I would like to try this.
kind regards,
unal
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: DaveH on March 24, 2012, 02:49:47 PM
Unal,

How did you get on to day.

 :beer:
DaveH

Thanks Dave,
would you be so kind and draw this on profile wiev I want to make sure that I understan it truly... I would like to try this.
kind regards,
unal

Dave H (the other one)

I think this question is for you.

I think Unal is looking for a view to show how the two wedges are forced together.

 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Miner on March 24, 2012, 05:34:03 PM
OK, This is slightly off the threads topic, And it is in no way directed at anyone, Or against Mr.Ukazaks understanding of what or how anything was posted. I'm not typing this out to upset anyone, Or to point fingers at all.

When any question is posted here it has to be taken at it's exact face value and answered with only the information that's given by the person asking the question. I personally can't relate to Mr. Ukazak's very difficult shop supply problems because I haven't had to experience that myself. He most definitely has my full sympathy now that I understand a bit more.

But if you were to go back and read this thread right from the start, Two of the people here posted their thoughts going only by the information given. Knowing far more about Mr. Ukazak's personal situation would have no doubt changed anyones opinions and points of view right from the beginning. So to again use some basic logic, I personally don't see anything anyone needs to, Or should have to apologise for. They saw the problem for what it was, And due to the lack of information. They simply responded in a logical way. It's very rare that anyone here posts anything here that isn't actively trying to give the best information they have. I think from what Mr. Ukazak has posted since, He himself fully understands that.

Everyone is fully entitled to their own opinion and this is mine. You can agree with it or not.

Pete   
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: hopefuldave on March 25, 2012, 08:10:24 AM
OK Unal, hope these explain OK - the wedges are forced together by nuts and bolts through the bars either end, these are left "floating" as the wedges will move "up and down" as they're tightened - you could leave the bars out, but then you'd need to elongate the back part of the wedge and put slots through it.

Excuse my CAD drawing, knocked up over a cup of coffee before I woke up!

You may need to make additional split collars to take up any gap between the wedge and the spindle, unless you're very lucky first time! As you have a milling chuck in the spindle (and don't you just know it!) you should find these fairly easy to make :)

SO... in use, put the two wedges around the chuck's arbor (taper), bars at each side, bolts through and tighten away! I'd use large bolts, perhaps M12 or M16 to get plenty of force on the wedges...


Hope this works for you, worked well for me!

Dave H. (the other one)
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: hopefuldave on March 25, 2012, 08:29:32 AM
One More Thing...

Put a piece of wood or something on the mill table, if/when it drops out there'll be a chuck and wedges etc. falling on it!

Dave H. (the other one)
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: hopefuldave on March 25, 2012, 10:37:57 AM
And yet another thing...

lubricate the bolt threads, and go up  to about 65nM torque (50Ft/Lb) evenly, alternating tightening the two bolts - this should give around 75% of the safe load for a high-tensile 12mm x 1.75 bolt and nut, and about er... (gets the calculator out) 6 tonnes of tension, so with the wedge ratio of 1/tan 5degrees and allowing a 50% loss for friction, around 30 Tonnes of force between the spindle and the chuck taper - if that doesn't do it, time for a new  spindle!

Dave H (the other one)
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 25, 2012, 06:54:46 PM
And yet another thing...

lubricate the bolt threads, and go up  to about 65nM torque (50Ft/Lb) evenly, alternating tightening the two bolts - this should give around 75% of the safe load for a high-tensile 12mm x 1.75 bolt and nut, and about er... (gets the calculator out) 6 tonnes of tension, so with the wedge ratio of 1/tan 5degrees and allowing a 50% loss for friction, around 30 Tonnes of force between the spindle and the chuck taper - if that doesn't do it, time for a new  spindle!

Dave H (the other one)

Thanks a lot Dave,
Drawings are great, It is clear now, I will apply this and appreciated very much.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 26, 2012, 06:37:04 PM
OK Unal, hope these explain OK - the wedges are forced together by nuts and bolts through the bars either end, these are left "floating" as the wedges will move "up and down" as they're tightened - you could leave the bars out, but then you'd need to elongate the back part of the wedge and put slots through it.

Excuse my CAD drawing, knocked up over a cup of coffee before I woke up!

You may need to make additional split collars to take up any gap between the wedge and the spindle, unless you're very lucky first time! As you have a milling chuck in the spindle (and don't you just know it!) you should find these fairly easy to make :)

Thanks Dave,
I couldnt do much today, but made the parts... rig is ready, tomorrow I will tighten the nuts... lets see what hapens..

SO... in use, put the two wedges around the chuck's arbor (taper), bars at each side, bolts through and tighten away! I'd use large bolts, perhaps M12 or M16 to get plenty of force on the wedges...


Hope this works for you, worked well for me!

Dave H. (the other one)
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 26, 2012, 06:38:30 PM
The rig
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: hopefuldave on March 26, 2012, 06:43:20 PM
Very nicely executed, Unal!

They look better than mine, I have to say... But the big question is - did it work?

Dave H. (the other one)
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 26, 2012, 06:47:44 PM
Thanks.. it set great on the chuck, I even put some grease on it... Havent tried yet. tomorrow is the big day! (I didnt have proper M16 wrenches..)
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: andyf on March 26, 2012, 06:49:44 PM
Unal, if that doesn't get it out the only other option will be dynamite.

Good luck! Iyi şans!

Andy
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: DaveH on March 26, 2012, 07:02:37 PM

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Unal, if that doesn't get it out the only other option will be dynamite.

Good luck! Iyi şans!

Andy

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: hopefuldave on March 26, 2012, 07:06:44 PM
When the one at work let go, it *sounded* like dynamite, yes...  :bugeye:

Dave H. (the other one)
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 26, 2012, 07:20:16 PM
Yes, dinamıte would do it,Dave, but I cant use it in the shop because I have some flamable stuff in there :lol:
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Stilldrillin on March 27, 2012, 02:00:05 AM
Good luck Unal!  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 27, 2012, 02:16:05 PM
Gentleman,
I thank you all, every and each one of you, for your valuable times and efforts to unsolved this problem…  they are not wasted.

Special thanks to DAVE H. his solution worked like, spreading butter on your bread. Smooth and easy! Much appriciated!

Required some force but, no banging, no whacking needed. It made a “FLOPP!” voice and fall, (Thanks for the “warning” to cover the mills table with a flat MDF board.)

I think this solution would be recorded to the machinists’ literature.

Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 27, 2012, 02:19:29 PM
 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

not much could be seen, dirt or rust or swarf... none was there..????
just a little scratch..
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: DaveH on March 27, 2012, 02:21:59 PM
                 :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks:
                            :mmr: :mmr:

 :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: philf on March 27, 2012, 02:25:20 PM
Gentleman,
I thank you all, every and each one of you, for your valuable times and efforts to unsolved this problem…  they are not wasted.

Special thanks to DAVE H. his solution worked like, spreading butter on your bread. Smooth and easy! Much appriciated!

Required some force but, no banging, no whacking needed. It made a “FLOPP!” voice and fall, (Thanks for the “warning” to cover the mills table with a flat MDF board.)

I think this solution would be recorded to the machinists’ literature.

Unal,

That's great news - I bet you're happy (and very relieved).

Looks like you made a very nice job of the tool.

Well done also Dave H.  :thumbup:

Cheers.

Phil.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: DaveH on March 27, 2012, 02:28:55 PM
Dave H (the other one)  :bow: :bow: :bow:


Take a bow mate - you deserve it  :thumbup: :clap:

 :beer:
DaveH


Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Stilldrillin on March 27, 2012, 02:29:31 PM
YAY!!!   :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:

Well done Unal, and Dave Hopeful.....  :nrocks:

David D
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Rob.Wilson on March 27, 2012, 03:03:24 PM
 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: well done Unal  :headbang: :headbang:  :) 

Nice one Dave  :thumbup:



Rob

Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: hopefuldave on March 27, 2012, 03:49:18 PM
No problem - I knew it worked for me, glad it worked for Unal!

I wish *mine* was as nicely made, though - I was in a hurry, needed to stick a 38mm drill through a casting and couldn't fit it in the drill! Three engineers before me hadn't managed it in ten years, took me a spare half-hour the first week on the job... Ho hum.

Just noticed the CAD drawing's a bit poor - one of the wedges looks hollow... I'll have to correct that!

Dave H. (the other one)
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: doubleboost on March 27, 2012, 04:11:39 PM
Well done Unal :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
You made a great job of the "splitter" at least no damage to machine or chuck

Dave
Many brownie points :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
John
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 27, 2012, 04:42:45 PM
Guy fall from a roof, they wanted to call a doctor for him, he said “no, get me another guy who fall also from a roof…” :lol:

I will keep thy gadget for live evidence for reference for reminder.
As I was applying the rig I notice the difficulty to hold the parts together in the beginning before tightening the nuts. So maybe one side can be fixed and other side would be moveable to encountered?
Unal
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: doubleboost on March 27, 2012, 05:00:39 PM
Hi
Unal
A couple of strong rubber bands would leave both hands free :) :) :) :) :)
John
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: hopefuldave on March 27, 2012, 05:01:45 PM
Hi Unal,

That would be pretty easy to do, just drill a pair of holes through one bar, drill and tap the wedge for a pair of M4 screws?

Or... what I do, put the bolts though, wedges in place and put a couple of nylon cable ties around it all!

Dave H. (the other one)
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: ukazak on March 27, 2012, 05:14:31 PM
Thanks Dave D, John, Rob Dave H, Thank you all…

It pays to double measuring and measuring once more.. I had ordered another Collet chuck, for I was almost sure that, this chuck would be damaged beyond use. What do you know, the new chuck arrived wouldn’t accept my collets they were too tall for it.
Aren’t these stuff supposedly standard? I have 1-16 spring type collets set, only one of them (8.5-9 was a short one) amongst, fits in this new chuck.
Now after removed chuck, I looked through the spindle quill and haven’t seen any particles or sign of rust, sprayed with diesel fuel and brushed by gun barrel brush. But is there anything else I should be doing to preventing  happening  again.
Title: Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
Post by: Stilldrillin on March 27, 2012, 05:49:55 PM
But is there anything else I should be doing to preventing  happening  again.

Unal.

Clunk the taper into it's socket. Hold the drawbar spanner at it's centre. Don't tighten up.

Just have the drawbar nipped up, to stop the arbor coming loose. You will be surprised how little pressure is needed to drive the tooling.

Works for me!  :thumbup:

David D