MadModder

The Shop => Our Shop => Topic started by: Pete W. on May 21, 2013, 10:58:15 AM

Title: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on May 21, 2013, 10:58:15 AM
Hi there, all,

I've decided to pension off our smaller 6' x 8' wooden shed.  If its wood were any thinner, it'd be a paper bag!  When the weather is hot, the tongued & grooved boards shrink across their width and when the humidity rises again they expand but the tongues & grooves don't re-engage.

Strictly speaking, it hasn't been my workshop - that's a 12' x 8' shed, also wooden but insulated and lined with steel mesh and 6" x 1" planed boards.  However, it has been used to store various items (garden tools, lawn-mower etc.) that would otherwise have taken up space in the workshop.

Note on terminology: if you're in the UK, NEVER use the word 'workshop' in a planning application!  However well you define your intended use, planning departments will automatically assume that you're going to spray-paint cars and let the over-spray waft over the fence on to your neighbours' washing, or have large noisy trucks turning up in the middle of the night to deliver materials or that you're going to use lots of environmentally unfriendly chemicals.  Better by far to call it a 'garden shed' to be used for domestic storage, home maintenance and hobby activities!

I was thinking of building a new, slightly larger, wooden shed but a friend offered me a shed made of ribbed galvanised steel sheet, fairly light gauge.  It's slightly larger than the one we're replacing so I hope, with careful layout, to be able to run my bench grinder in there, avoiding abrasive dust in the main shed.  It's not top of the league as regards insulation but beggars can't be choosers, it was free.

 :worthless:  so here goes:

After laying out and digging out the site, I had to get this:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/TinShed005_zpsfeded1e0.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/TinShed005_zpsfeded1e0.jpg.html)

into this:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/TinShed004_zps3e89daff.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/TinShed004_zps3e89daff.jpg.html)

(I tagged the photo 'not an advert', it's not but the tag isn't a criticism either.)  I call the material 'limestone scalpings' but the builder's merchant calls it 'MOT Type 1'.  The properties that make it good for the base also make it quite difficult to shovel out of the Jumbo bag!  Actually, the one in the picture was the second bag; the second photo shows the site after addition of the first bag.

Before Awemawson rushes over to help with the shovel and barrow he pictured in his CNC lathe thread, I should say that the sideway is only just wide enough for an ordinary builder's barrow but thanks anyway!
  :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D 

When I've got the scalpings raked-out and levelled, the next job is to position five railway sleepers so that all their upper surfaces are in the same level plane.

Watch this space.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Rob.Wilson on May 21, 2013, 11:55:34 AM
Hi Pete

Cant go wrong with a free shed  :med: dont envy you hand balling a couple of tone of that stuff ,,,,,,,,,looks like hard graft  :coffee:


Rob
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: shipto on May 21, 2013, 12:56:21 PM
even better yet, your allowed quite a large shop without going near the planners stick to that and you can call it whatever you like  :D
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on May 21, 2013, 02:38:56 PM
Hi Pete

Cant go wrong with a free shed  :med: dont envy you hand balling a couple of tone of that stuff ,,,,,,,,,looks like hard graft  :coffee:


Rob

Rob, thank you for your sympathy!  (The delivery note says maximum weight per bag is 945 kgm.)  Twenty years ago I'd have shifted it all in a short morning including a coffee break -  :coffee:  - nowadays, four barrow-loads and I need a lie-down!   :Doh:   :Doh:   :Doh:   :Doh: 

even better yet, your allowed quite a large shop without going near the planners stick to that and you can call it whatever you like  :D

That would have been true in places I've lived previously, I think the limit would be half the area of the back garden - here, we're in an Area of Outstanding Natural Beauty and a National Park so even the 50 cubic metres of 'permitted development' is far from certain.  Besides that, we're tenants, not freeholders.   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:

One thing I didn't mention in my initial post is that this tin shed has no windows - that's NO WINDOWS.  But it has double sliding doors.  And, being an all metallic construction, my cheery 'music while you work' VHF radio might not work in there.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on May 21, 2013, 03:41:54 PM
"Before Awemawson rushes over to help with the shovel and barrow he pictured in his CNC lathe thread, I should say that the sideway is only just wide enough for an ordinary builder's barrow but thanks anyway! "


Too late - they're already one the way !!!!!!!!!
                   
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on May 28, 2013, 07:08:24 AM
A bit of progress to report:

This is the state of play as of Sunday evening,

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/TinShed007_zps44ae3edb.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/TinShed007_zps44ae3edb.jpg.html)

The eagle-eyed among you might detect a slight dimensional adjustment (measure twice, dig once!).  I managed to enlarge the hole and remove the soil and turf without unduly contaminating the scalpings.

You might also have noticed a brown plastic bottle on the fringe of the photo, beyond the concrete block, and a wooden batten leaning against the trellis?  These are the main components of my single-handed water level.  When the weather is more suitable, I'll take a couple of photos of them in action and describe the system.

The next stage is to really level the scalpings, lots of work with the rake, takes its toll of the tummy muscles!  (Can't find a suitable smiley for that!)
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on May 31, 2013, 11:08:59 AM
I promised some pictures of my single-handed water level, here they are:

The water level has a small end and a big end, here is the small end on its staff, aka 'wooden batten', (supported for the photo by my glamorous but shy assistant!) and a close-up:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/WaterLevel003_zps94942df8.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/WaterLevel003_zps94942df8.jpg.html)    (http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/WaterLevel002_zps272939f9.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/WaterLevel002_zps272939f9.jpg.html)

The tube is 5 mm bore PVC, as used for motor car windscreen washers.  The liquid is ordinary tap water with a pinch of fluoroscein to enhance visibility and a drop or two of washing-up liquid to ensure the fluid wets the PVC tube.

Here is the big end:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/WaterLevel001_zpseea9113c.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/WaterLevel001_zpseea9113c.jpg.html)

The bottle is approx 160 mm diameter and is about 3/4 filled with the tinted water.  There are two tubes fitted to the screw-on lid.  One is just an air vent, its tube points downwards to exclude rainwater - the other tube leads to the little end.  Because the only opening into the bottle is at the top, the liquid siphons in and out of the bottle as the little end is raised or lowered.  At the start of each working session, the tube is 'primed' by carefully sucking at the open little end.  If you 'park' the staff during a working session, you need to be careful that it doesn't fall or get knocked over - all the working liquid could escape!  At the end of a working session, all the liquid is returned to the bottle by raising the staff and connecting tube progressively hand-over-hand.

Years ago I originally tried a water level that had two identical ends.  The problem with that is that movement of one end affects the level in the other end so if you're working single-handed, you have to keep going back and forth to check that the reference end is properly at its level mark.   :bang:   :bang:   :bang: 
Enlisting the aid of the glamorous but shy assistant to hold the reference end and call out the level information has been known to cause domestic discord!   :hammer:  :hammer:   :hammer:   :hammer: 

I arrived at this system independently, I'm not consciously aware of ever seeing anything like it elsewhere.  Still, it's such a simple scheme, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm not the first.

With this system, you set the big end at such a height that with the foot of the staff on the working surface the liquid level at the small end is at a comfortable height up the staff to be viewed without stooping or other contortions!

As the foot of the staff is moved between lower and higher points, so more or less of the PVC tube is filled with liquid.  This liquid can only come from or go to the big end bottle.  However, the surface area of the fluid in the bottle is much greater than the cross-sectional area of the PVC tube (in my current set-up, (160/5)^2 or 1024 times).  So in my set-up, a movement of 1" liquid level at the small end results in less than a thou change in the reference level in the big end bottle.  Simple but effective!

In the second photo, you can just see a pencil line on the staff a few inches above the liquid level.  That corresponds to the liquid level when the foot of the staff was on the bottom of my excavation, before the scalpings were added.  The level operation involves a reversal - as the staff is lifted, the liquid in the tube falls.  There is also a second line on the staff, more or less at the liquid level - that corresponds to my guess where the surface of the scalpings is going to be once they are raked-out flat and level.  A draw-back of this water level implementation is that it would be cumbersome to use up a ladder!  However, I've found it to be a great help when working at ground level.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: dsquire on May 31, 2013, 11:23:30 AM
Pete W

That is one very good level system that you have constructed there. It will be every bit as accurate as a laser level and a whole lot cheaper. Thanks for shareing it with us.  :thumbup:

Cheers  :beer:

Don
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: John Hill on May 31, 2013, 04:08:56 PM
That's a very classy level Pete...

I needed to level an area around two sides of our house so I made a plastic tube level too.  My glamorous and not so shy assistant lost interest after about three minutes and it took me weeks to figure a way of using the level alone.  I stuck the garden hose into the 'master' bottle and opened the tap enough to keep the bottle overflowing and therefore at a constant level.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: vtsteam on May 31, 2013, 09:06:09 PM
I like the big end -- good idea!

I used to plug both ends with a whittled wooden plug or bit of pencil stub if one was handy when quitting for the day. Then the water won't leak out either end. You'd plug the vent end and working end.

Working alone building my house, I used to not bother with getting the reference end exactly to a datum mark. I'd just fix both ends in place close enough, and then I'd just measure the distance from the level to datum mark on a post and add that to the working end level. In fact it can be done without measuring -- just mark a stick with the distance and use the stick to mark it off at the other end. Calipers would work, too.

Nevertheless, yours is a nice solution, Pete, and I'll probably adopt it in the future.

Cheers!  :beer:


(http://i786.photobucket.com/albums/yy150/vtsr/vtsr/House%20Building/Firstfloorframing.jpg) (http://s786.photobucket.com/user/vtsr/media/vtsr/House%20Building/Firstfloorframing.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: PeterE on June 01, 2013, 03:07:50 AM
A very nice setup Pete. So simple and yet very, very accurate.

A hose level (which I believe it is called) and a plumb bob one have almost all accurate measurement tools needed for building.

If one wants further accuracy from the water level I found this at my local (swedish) tool mart:
http://www.jula.se/slangvattenpass-tac-100-160000 (http://www.jula.se/slangvattenpass-tac-100-160000)
The only real difference is the scales on the end containers.

Will be following this build with interest  :thumbup:

BR

/Peter
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: andyf on June 01, 2013, 05:22:02 AM
I reckon Pete's version is better than the Swedish one. He can stand his big bottle in the middle of the site and just wander around with the tube taking measurements without having to return to the bottle.

But it won't help much when it comes to the floor surface, levelling wet concrete.

Andy
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on June 04, 2013, 05:16:46 AM
I reckon Pete's version is better than the Swedish one. He can stand his big bottle in the middle of the site and just wander around with the tube taking measurements without having to return to the bottle.

But it won't help much when it comes to the floor surface, levelling wet concrete.

Andy

Hi there, Andy,

Not planning to use any wet concrete on this project - see last Saturday's progress:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/BaseforTinShed001a_zps8b3d6eeb.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/BaseforTinShed001a_zps8b3d6eeb.jpg.html)

Surely, if you vibrate wet concrete sufficiently, it levels itself?  (I usually try to keep my concrete as 'un-wet' as possible and bring it to the tops of previously levelled stakes in the bottom of the trench.)
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on June 04, 2013, 10:21:57 AM
Hi there. all,

This is Tuesday afternoon's progress:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/BaseforTinShed003_zpsc4f13c60.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/BaseforTinShed003_zpsc4f13c60.jpg.html)

I just have to trim the levels so all the top surfaces of the sleepers are in the same plane.  The lumpiness of the limestone scalpings is too great to allow that by dead reckoning with the water level alone.   :bang:   :bang:   :bang: 

My shy assistant has objected to my describing her as 'glamorous' but will allow me to describe her as 'lovely' in future.   :clap:   :clap:   :clap:  She's certainly a 'bonny lass' and more than pulled her weight on the other end of the sleepers.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Rob.Wilson on June 04, 2013, 01:44:21 PM
Your defiantly putting some graft into the base Pete  :clap: :clap: :clap:


I dont think its going to move any  :thumbup:


Rob 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on June 04, 2013, 03:27:23 PM
Hi there, Rob,

Thanks for your post.   :beer:   :beer:   :beer: 

It's good of you to take an interest considering you've a cupola other threads to keep up with!

[Pun intended!!!]   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: vtsteam on June 04, 2013, 10:35:36 PM
Keep him distracted.  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Rob.Wilson on June 06, 2013, 01:56:22 PM

It's good of you to take an interest considering you've a cupola other threads to keep up with!

[Pun intended!!!]   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D


 :lol: :lol: :lol: very poor Pete   :palm:,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,you got that shed up  :poke: :)


Distracted Rob


Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on June 08, 2013, 12:03:26 PM
Hi there, all,

A bit more progress to report, here's the pic:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/BaseforTinShed004_zpsfbda19fd.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/BaseforTinShed004_zpsfbda19fd.jpg.html)

These (i.e. the top layer) are so-called 'eco-sleepers'; they're impregnated with something that's supposed to be more environmentally friendly than creosote.  They obviously don't try hard with the pressure treatment - where the sleepers have developed cracks since I've had them the wood in the cracks shows snow-white!  I've given them a coat of 'Creotine', also supposed to be environmentally friendly but it made my skin itch.  I applied it 24 hours ago and it hasn't dried despite the bright sun-light.  The un-treated blocks at the corners are temporary, to hold the sleepers in the right place when I drill and fit the 200 mm long screws to secure the corners.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: doubleboost on June 08, 2013, 03:22:44 PM
Diesel mixed with old engine oil gives lasting results  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
John
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: vtsteam on June 08, 2013, 06:04:32 PM
Now that's what I call a rugged building base!  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: DavidA on June 09, 2013, 05:27:24 AM
My original shed was lathered with a mix of dark creosote and old engine oil. Looked quite good. The wood is still fine after 15 years.
As for eco-friendly.  It didn't stop the weeds and suchlike growing around the shed base.

Dave.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on June 09, 2013, 09:32:54 AM
Hi there, all,

Thanks for your respective posts.

I mentioned in my initial post that my actual workshop is a 12' x 8' wooden shed.  I've moved house twice since I bought it and it has moved with me each time.  It's now on a concrete base but when I first got it I put it on a base comprising five railway sleepers topped with second-hand scaffold boards.  In line with the suggestions above, I 'pickled' the scaffold boards with a mixture of creosote and old engine oil.  That sleepers & scaffold board 'raft' accompanied it to its second site.

I didn't treat those sleepers as they were Jarrah wood, a teak-like timber once used for the sleepers on the London Underground system.  I still have those sleepers, separate from this Tin Shed project.  Four of them are holding up a soil bank in the garden - we sawed-up the fifth to provide timber (aka 'lumber' for USA readers) for a new living room mantelpiece!  Subsequent to the 12' x 8' shed's erection on its second site, the UK authorities outlawed creosote because of its carcinogenic properties and I disposed of my remaining stock.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on June 29, 2013, 04:29:58 PM
Hi there, all,

Well, I haven't posted in this thread for a while but work has continued, lots of non-photogenic stuff like painting the foundation strips.  I had to treat a few rusty patches with Jenolite (based on phosphoric acid, I think), then , because the strips are galvanised, a coat of Hammerite special primer.  Then two coats of Hammerite smooth black.  Maybe if I'd chosen a different colour, the result might have been more photogenic.   :scratch:  :scratch:  :scratch:   

Then, while the paint was drying, I drilled the four corners of the 'eco-sleepers' and screwed them together, like this:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Beaten%20by%20the%20Bush/FrameCorner01_zps5646c2f3.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Beaten%20by%20the%20Bush/FrameCorner01_zps5646c2f3.jpg.html)

I did have a bit of bother with screwing the corners together - it's described in my post on the 'Oooops' department.  Lots of people have read that post but, so far, no replies!?!  It was such a basic set of clangers, I guess folks are declining comment out of concern for my feelings!   :lol:   :lol:   :lol:   :lol:   :lol:   :lol: 

Then I fitted the foundation strips to the tops of the 'eco-sleepers' and cut a set of second-hand scaffold boards into the frame to make the under-floor,

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/SuperStructure002_zps04ab14e7.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/SuperStructure002_zps04ab14e7.jpg.html)

The rear-most board needs to be reduced in width but I'm postponing that until the boards have spent enough time sheltered by the superstructure to have dried-out in case they shrink across their width.

Today, with sterling help from my lovely but shy assistant, plus a timely assistance from a neighbour, we tackled the walls and roof so it now looks like this:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/SuperStructure004_zps434981fd.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/SuperStructure004_zps434981fd.jpg.html)  (http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/SuperStructure005_zpsfe11bf26.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/SuperStructure005_zpsfe11bf26.jpg.html)

You can see my lovely but shy assistant in one of those photos (well, I did say she's shy).  Also, Man's Best Friend!   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D 

It's still far from complete, there are still a lot of holes to podge into alignment so the screws will fit, the doors to fit, the underfloor to finish and the top floor surface (1/2" shuttering plywood) to fit and fix.  Still, we seem to have got past the stage where everything wobbles!   :ddb:   :ddb:   :ddb:   :ddb:   :ddb:   :ddb: 

SWMBO is now keen that I should paint the exterior - I HATE painting!    :bang:   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on June 30, 2013, 04:37:34 PM
Hi there, all,

Just a quick addition to yesterday evening's post.

When I was offered the tin shed the deal was that I had to dismantle it and to take up the rotten wooden base.  The shed had been in-situ for so long that any assembly instructions were long gone!

So, we dismantled the shed into the minimum number of pieces that would fit on the car roof-rack for transport.  The shed sections then spent almost two years stacked at the bottom of our garden.  During that time, my memory of how it originally went together has faded!   :bang:   :bang:   :bang: 

As a result of all that, the dismantling and the re-assembly we've done so far definitely come in the category of 'flying by the seat of our pants'.   :scratch:   :scratch:   :scratch:  I have a few parts in the box that are a mystery - I don't know where they're supposed to fit.   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:

I've done several web searches to see if I can identify the maker of the shed and whether I could find any assembly instructions.  I've found nothing that fits our shed.

If any readers of this post can confidently identify the maker of the shed, please PM me.  If you have the assembly instructions that you could send as a .pdf that would be super.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 03, 2013, 11:33:32 AM
Looking very nice Pete  :thumbup: 


Thats a rock sold base ,,,,,,,,,,,,whats your plans for this shed ? 


Rob
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: tekfab on July 03, 2013, 01:04:59 PM
Don't tell him Pete,  he doesn't supply plans so why should you !     :headbang:

Mike
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on July 03, 2013, 05:14:54 PM
Don't tell him Pete,  he doesn't supply plans so why should you !     :headbang:

Mike

 :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D 

Mike,

I'd have to be well 'ard to be that mean to anyone taking an interest in my project.

Rob,

The plan for this shed is to relieve congestion in the workshop.  You could say it's intended to be a facilitarium (or do I mean 'facilitorium'?).  I've been suffering an 'infection' where 'stuff' gets to act like a fungus and spreads, inexorably, to fill any horizontal surface.  So when I screw the bench vice in, stuff falls off the opposite side of the bench!   :bang:   :hammer:   :bang:   :hammer:   :bang:   :hammer: 

When I took the photos of the lathe in my thread in the 'Oooops' department, I had two large plastic tote boxes on the chair beside me full of all the odds and ends that had previously accumulated in the swarf tray.  They're still on that chair!

The tin shed doesn't have any windows or insulation so I'll not be able to actually DO much in there (but see my comments regarding the bench grinder in my original post).  There is a 'translucent panel' in the roof but it doesn't let much light in.  Still, I do plan to have a bench in there.  Also, the tin shed isn't very secure, about the same as the little wooden shed it's replacing.  Nevertheless, I hope to be able to store some low-value stuff in there to make room in the workshop.  And the floor area is about 40% up on that of the little wooden shed so I hope there'll be room to get to things without having to move other things out to give access.

All that is still a week or two away yet.  There are a lot of screws to fit, if I can persuade the holes to line up, and the floor to finish when the sun comes out again.  And last night's rain found a few holes in the roof!
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 04, 2013, 01:54:06 PM
Quote
I've been suffering an 'infection' where 'stuff' gets to act like a fungus and spreads, inexorably, to fill any horizontal surface.  So when I screw the bench vice in, stuff falls off the opposite side of the bench! 


 :lol: :lol: :lol: Hi Pete ,,,,,,,,,,,,I no the feeling  :Doh:   ,,,,,,,,,,,,, but the more space you have , the more usefully ,may come in handy one day stuff you tend to keep  :lol: :lol:


Rob
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on July 16, 2013, 11:33:03 AM
Hi there, all,

Again, I haven't posted for a few days but work has been proceeding slowly - more non-photogenic stuff.

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/GettingClose001_zpsdc16bfcf.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/GettingClose001_zpsdc16bfcf.jpg.html)

The doors are on and the floor boards cut to fit, treated with wood preservative, fixed down and then topped with shuttering ply.  The joint between the two halves of the roof has been taped with aluminium tape and then covered with the ridge capping strip.  I've also washed down most of the exterior, it had got very dirty with leaf mould while the sections were stacked beneath the oak tree at the bottom of the garden for almost two years.

There are still a few screws to fit - I've had to discard quite a few of the original screws because they are rusty and I've had to await deliveries. 
I'm currently waiting for some galvanised mild steel channel to replace the stiffeners half way up the wall interiors.  They were each in two pieces and we seem to have paired them up wrongly.  Also, too many of the holes in the old ones didn't register with the holes in the wall panels.   :bang:   :bang:   :bang: 
The new channel will be in one piece per wall and I'll spot through all of the holes (with the help of my lovely but shy assistant!)   :thumbup:   :thumbup:   :thumbup: 

Still, I'm hopeful that the coming weekend will see us transferring the contents of the old wooden shed to this one and dismantling the old one ready for disposal.   :D   :D   :D 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: vtsteam on July 16, 2013, 09:36:06 PM
I have the same shed! Ten million screws and no panel bigger than about a square foot, and 50 pages of instructions. The first one warns you not to start building if its windy!

I only had to build it once -- I can't imagine re-building it once disassembled. My greatest admiration to you Pete. I thought awemawson's project was complex, but I hadn't realized you were referring to THIS metal shed.  :bow: :med: :beer:
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on July 17, 2013, 07:54:53 AM
I have the same shed! Ten million screws and no panel bigger than about a square foot, and 50 pages of instructions. The first one warns you not to start building if its windy!

SNIP


That sounds like the one although you are exagerpating somewhat.  Not quite ten million screws but quite a lot.  Some are self tapping (aka 'PK') and some have machine thread.  They all have/had square socket mushroom (or flat-domed) heads - I haven't been able to source exact replacements so I've got a mixture of philips and pozi. 
Our wall panels are a bit bigger than a square foot, they go from foundation strips to eaves, but the warning about windy days strikes a chord - I could have done with an extra two lovely but shy assistants!  (   :hammer:  Just temporary, dear, honest.   :hammer:  )

Were all 50 pages of your instructions in English?
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: vtsteam on July 17, 2013, 11:29:46 AM
Yes, exaggerating, Pete, though it still took 2 full work days to assemble, even with a screw gun.

I went out and looked at it just now, and realized they aren't exactly the same. Mine has a gambrel roof and is 8x10 feet. A rough count of the outside shows over 300 screws, and you're right, the wall paneling does go floor to ceiling. The roof panels are small however because of the gambrel roof, and If I remember correctly, the building corners are multi-piece. I have 3 ridge poles instead of your 1, of course, and they are built up from smaller pieces. The screws are cross slotted, not square socketed like yours. The instructions are long gone, but probably multilingual.

I do have a few leaks, one I haven't yet located in the roof because it runs along an inside seam -- as a gambrel roof it has more seams to leak. But the major ingress comes along the base. The eaves are pathetically short -- an inch? So water just flows off the roof down the side of the building. Side seams aren't very big so it can also come in that way. There is no floor sealing method supplied with the kit, so water can just seep in along the floor. I did apply putty sealant but it hasn't worked, possibly because of the side seams.

The instructions said to put a prop from the floor to the middle of the peak to prevent snow from collapsing the roof (kit for that not supplied, but purchasable by special order). Quite a disappointment to read that after purchase and construction began. I just used a 2x4 prop -- but no longer an 8 x 10 clear space.

Yours may be different (better) after all, so not meant to be discouraging. I would hate to have to re-build mine again, though!
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on July 17, 2013, 12:05:57 PM
Hi there,

Thank you for your post, it's very interesting to compare notes.

Our shed has a ridge 'girder' comprising two sheet metal channels bolted back-to-back.  Then there are two purlins, one halfway down each flank of the roof, they are also metal channels bolted back-to-back.  I had occasion to prop the centre of our ridge girder while I got up on top to fit some screws I'd omitted - I used a 4" by 4" gate-post and some wedges.  We had a volunteer helper to lift the roof on in two halves so we had to do that part of the job when he was available rather than when it suited us!  Ideally, I'd have assembled the roof to a more complete state while it was on the ground and then lifted it onto the walls in one piece but that would have required more level ground than we have as well as needing more muscle.

I haven't left the prop in place - you probably get more snow there than I can recall here in recent years, about 9" maximum.   :scratch:   :scratch:   :scratch: 

I think I said in an earlier post that, as supplied, the shed was a bit short of headroom.  So I mounted it on the 'eco-sleepers' on edge.  That increases the headroom by 200 mm less about 50 mm for the thickness of the floor scaffold boards plus shuttering ply.  It does have the disadvantage that you have to step up and over on entry and exit.

There's an airspace under the floor and permeable limestone scalpings beneath that so any rain that gets in can just go right on through.   :D   :D   :D 
If the rain does come in through the seams between the panels, I shall try running some silicone sealant along the seams.

I do hope to be able to get some plastic guttering close enough in under the eaves to be able to catch the rainwater and send it to a water butt.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on July 23, 2013, 10:06:48 AM
I have the same shed! Ten million screws and no panel bigger than about a square foot, and 50 pages of instructions. The first one warns you not to start building if its windy!

I only had to build it once -- I can't imagine re-building it once disassembled. My greatest admiration to you Pete. I thought awemawson's project was complex, but I hadn't realized you were referring to THIS metal shed.  :bow: :med: :beer:

Hi there, again, VT,

Looking back, I realise I was a bit churlish about your post, sorry.   :bow:   :bow:   :bow: 

What do you use your metal shed for, is it your main workshop?
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: vtsteam on July 23, 2013, 03:14:08 PM
Oh don't worry Pete! And also looking back at my first post I realize I wasn't encouraging, being too taken up with my own supposed sense of humor about my own shed. You've done a great job!  :clap:

I have mixed storage in there, plus a CNC foam cutter I built, lots of foam, and a lot of my casting supplies (the shed is adjacent to my new furnace) . It's nearly impossible to get into now and I need to stop procrastinating and sort it out to make it usable again. Also fix the leaks before some important things get ruined.  :poke:

The main impediment to access is the CNC foam cutter, which takes up 4 x 8 feet. I should take that apart, since I'm not using it these days.

Your shed must feel great to be completing, and will be an asset to organization, as a new space always is.  :thumbup:

I need to convert mine back to that!
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on July 30, 2013, 05:13:58 AM
I have the same shed! Ten million screws and no panel bigger than about a square foot, and 50 pages of instructions.

SNIP


Hi there, again, VT,

As I wrote earlier, our shed panels are held together with self-tapping screws.  These have nasty sharp points that come into the interior of the shed.  They were originally covered with little white plastic screw-on gizmos that I tried to save during the dis-assembly.  However, lots of them got lost during the move and the time the shed parts were stacked awaiting re-assembly.

I'd buy some more to complete the job but I haven't found any on the self-tapping screw stockists' web sites, mainly because I don't know what they're called! 
Googling 'little white plastic screw-on gizmos' hasn't met with a lot of success!   :D   :D   :D 

(Needless to say, I did also google 'screw covers', 'thread covers', 'thread shields', 'thread protectors', 'point covers' and as many other similar phrases as I could think of.)

You mentioned that you have (or had) the assembly instructions for your shed - do those instructions include a parts list with a mention of 'little white plastic screw-on gizmos'?  If so, please can you tell me their 'official' name?   :scratch:   :scratch:   :scratch: 

Failing all of that, I shall get some small diameter PVC tubing and cut it into short pieces and screw them onto the screw points. 

Our spell of hot dry weather has come to an end and I have a few leaks in the shed roof to locate and fix.  So moving-in day has been postponed somewhat.   :bang:   :bang:   :bang: 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: vtsteam on July 30, 2013, 08:53:21 AM
Pete, I just went out and checked on the shed, because I didn't remember plastic screw protectors at all. There are none in my shed.

All of the sheet metal screws are very short. And they are almost all protruding into some form of integrated structural guard. Typically they protrude into stamped framing shaped like either a channel, or angle, so you really can't contact them. And they might be protruding only 2mm anyway. Where they would be exposed, the fastener is generally a machine screw and nut rather than a sheet metal screw.

Would soda straws work in your case? Or possibly pieces of clear vinyl tubing, cut into lengths with scissors?
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on July 30, 2013, 09:37:29 AM
Hi there, VT,

Thank you for your prompt reply and especially for going out to eyeball your shed fixings.

Yes, short lengths of small bore vinyl tubing seems to be the way I should go.  I've replaced a lot of the original screws because they had rusted - the replacements I bought are 1/2" rather than the 3/8" originals and, although they are not self-drilling, they still do have vicious points.

The original screws were assembled with thin plastic washers under their heads but those washers didn't survive the move.  I found some self adhesive black neoprene washers on eBay and have fitted those wherever I've used the new screws.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: vtsteam on July 30, 2013, 10:47:29 AM
Happy to help, Pete.

Hope you get those leaks solved! I don't think the tape system these sheds have is a very good way to do it -- particularly on my gambrel roof where rain runs into a joint from a higher peak. I'm actually thinking of making a new simple peaked roof from standard galvanized roofing and setting it over the old one. Also I'm a great believer in eaves, especially here in snow country, so I'd have those on a new roof.

Best of luck Pete and keep the progress coming!
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on August 20, 2013, 12:21:14 PM
Hi there, all,

Gosh, is it really almost a month since I last posted in this thread?  Well, it hasn't been for lack of action.  I've added a few refinements to the tin shed and then moved the contents of the little shed into the tin one.  That took several sessions and the help of my lovely but shy assistant.  So, this morning, bright and early, I removed the last few bits and pieces that hadn't seemed important while the 'big stuff' was being moved.  Then, after walking man's best friend, it was time for the grand dismantling.

Here's the little shed, after removal of the gutter and sundry trim:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Little%20Shed%20Dismantling/ImageSmallShedComesDown001c_zps88cba8d5.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Little%20Shed%20Dismantling/ImageSmallShedComesDown001c_zps88cba8d5.jpg.html)

Then off with one roof section:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Little%20Shed%20Dismantling/ImageSmallShedComesDown002c_zpsd6cd5ec1.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Little%20Shed%20Dismantling/ImageSmallShedComesDown002c_zpsd6cd5ec1.jpg.html)

Then the other:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Little%20Shed%20Dismantling/ImageSmallShedComesDown003c_zps1773d6c3.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Little%20Shed%20Dismantling/ImageSmallShedComesDown003c_zps1773d6c3.jpg.html)

Then off with the door end:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Little%20Shed%20Dismantling/ImageSmallShedComesDown004c_zps1f3b99c6.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Little%20Shed%20Dismantling/ImageSmallShedComesDown004c_zps1f3b99c6.jpg.html)

And the non-window side:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Little%20Shed%20Dismantling/ImageSmallShedComesDown005c_zps21958ea9.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Little%20Shed%20Dismantling/ImageSmallShedComesDown005c_zps21958ea9.jpg.html)

By this time, I couldn't work single-handed so I called for my lovely but shy assistant.  However, she was eager to get back to a sick computer she was doctoring so photography was veto'd until we reached this stage:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Little%20Shed%20Dismantling/ImageSmallShedComesDown006c_zps78a0d2fb.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Little%20Shed%20Dismantling/ImageSmallShedComesDown006c_zps78a0d2fb.jpg.html)

We decided to quit at that stage and clear up the rest tomorrow!   :doh:   :doh:   :doh: 

The shed sections are stacked out of the way.  There are a few nails that still need to be removed.

I'm sorry the photos are a bit fuzzy - I think the camera was sympathising with my troubled brow.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: RossJarvis on August 23, 2013, 02:05:16 AM
Dear Pete, I'm getting a bit confused here, seeing your wooden shed being dismantled and empty, and that you and the lovely but shy one moved the contents, makes me think you are both related to superman :bow:

Last time I had a look in your shed it had several implements that'd require a crane to lift :bugeye:

Are you both; a,Superpersons, b, pyramid builders, c,stonehenge erectors? or is there yet another shed I'm missing?
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on August 23, 2013, 05:46:00 AM
Hi there, Ross,

Thank you for your post.

a)  My lovely but shy assistant is a Superperson.   :clap:   :D   :clap:   :D   :clap:   :D   

b)  Well, my late father was a bit of a pyramid builder, not in the size/weight of his projects but in how he built to last.   :offtopic:  He worked in wood all his working life, apprenticed in the cabinet shop of a dental instrument makers, then working for an antique furniture restorer, a spell at Weymanns' coachworks building Black Marias, then working as a scenic carpenter first in the film studios and later at BBC TV Centre.  In his spare time he was regularly making quality cabinetwork and furniture for family and friends.  All the while he was alive and active his tools were in fine condition but soon after he got sick and died lots of his tool handles developed woodworm almost as if someone had thrown a switch!  Explain that if you can!   :scratch:   :scratch:   :scratch: 

c)  Apart from limestone scalpings, we don't work in stone.  Anyway, what's a 'henge' ?

Apart from all that, we're determined to get the job done but mostly have to do it ourselves.  As Keith Fenner says in another Internet place, 'Get 'er done!'.

I'm glad you decided to continue your log store thread on Mad Modders.   :mmr: 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: RossJarvis on August 31, 2013, 03:26:13 PM
 
c)  Apart from limestone scalpings, we don't work in stone.  Anyway, what's a 'henge' ?


Personally I think it's an older version of hedge.

 :offtopic:  I went to the standing stones in Callanish on the isle of Harris, this was obviously an ancient bus stop shelter.  Vertical flat stones in all sorts of orientations to protect you from sideways rain.  No need for a roof on Harris, water never comes down vertically!
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on September 13, 2013, 11:40:53 AM
Hi there, all,

While I've been devoting all my efforts on the tins shed, the workshop seems to have got jealous and developed a leak in the roof!   :bang:   :bang:   :bang: 

Having priced-up roofing felt, I'm thinking of stripping off the felt and re-roofing in box section steel sheeting on top of the existing T&G boards.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on September 13, 2013, 12:02:29 PM
Pete,

Give some consideration to stopping condensation on the underside of your box sheeting or it will quickly rot out your T&G boarding. Perhaps also a membrane of some sort between them? Or maybe an air gap spacing the box sheeting on something that won't rot?

AWEM
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on September 15, 2013, 05:07:55 AM
Hi there, Andrew,

Thank you for your prompt about the membrane.

Having given that aspect some consideration, I have the beginning of a scheme in my head.  It'll need some exploration on paper and phoning suppliers of material but it goes something like this:

[As they say in the Military, 'No plan survives contact with the enemy!']   :zap:   :zap:   :zap: 

1.  Pray for dry and calm weather, repeat as necessary,

2.  Procure some insulation (Kingspan or similar),

3.  Procure some timber (aka 'lumber') matching the thickness of the insulation,

4.  Strip off the many layers of old roofing felt,

5.  Examine the existing T&G boards and make good where necessary  (or, strip off old T&G boards and replace with shuttering ply),

6.  Lay out a heavy gauge polythene DPC over the roof, stapling to existing structural timbers,

7.  Position three new timbers as purlins at top edge, bottom edge and midway up the roof, secure to existing rafters, (timbers to be pre-treated with preservative),

8.  Add framing timbers between purlins at suitable intervals to stabilise the geometry, skew-nailed or otherwise fixed so as to not intrude into spaces,

9.  Cut insulation to fit spaces in frame, seal cut edges with adhesive aluminium tape and fit in position,

10. Position four 1 metre wide sheets of box section steel sheeting, one sheet overlapping two boxes to adjust overall width to match roof,

11.  Install eaves filler strips top and bottom.  Attach sheets to purlins. top, bottom and midway, using self-drilling fixings with integral seals,

12.  Contrive and attach some form of flashing to direct rainwater into existing gutter.  (The upper surface of roof will be some 4" higher than the old one.)

As already stated, 'No plan survives contact with the enemy!'   :zap:   :zap:   :zap:

I'll continue in this thread as it's still tin and still a shed, even if not the same shed!!   :worthless:

Doubtless, pix to follow, watch this space!
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: naffsharpe (Nathan) on September 15, 2013, 11:58:18 AM
Hi Pete,
 
Sounds like you,ve got some work ahead of you! It also sounds similar to my recent rebuild and suggest you might like to consider the following ideas.
1) Frame the roof with timber the same thickness as your insulation board (eaves/apex/facia edges) and across the roof at centres to match the width of your insulation.
2) Lay the insulation into this framework.
3) Fit your ply to the framing timbers.
4) Fit a breathable barrier (ie. Tyvek ) do not use polythene or felt unless you want to redo the job in a few years !! Using polythene or felt means that your condensing layer will, because it is in contact with the underlying timber, simply soak it and help it to rot.
5) Fit purlins from treated timber and use a non setting mastic on their underside to seal the fixings to the existing roof boards.
6) Use more purlins than the minimum.
7) Close the sheets at the verges but not at the apex or facia , the air flow will help to keep the roof condensation free.
8) At the facia/gutter edge lay a piece of roofing felt over the purlin and bent down into the gutter.

I went a bit further with mine and laid a water guide geotextile over the roof sheets and then covered it in a mix of bark chippings/compost and pea gravel before planting it with rockery type plants. This gives me a quiet roof during heavy rainfall (quite common here in N Wales !!) and adds another layer of insulation to the roof.
On my roof which is a single pitch 5m x 5m there is no sag visible even with 100mm of snow on it.
Hope you can use somerhing from the above !!

Nathan.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on September 15, 2013, 04:42:44 PM
Hi there, Nathan,

Thank you for your recommendations.

Your item #1 is covered by my item #3.

I don't understand your item #3.  I should explain that the existing roof of the shed consists of T&G boards supported by rafters, surrounded by barge-boards and fascias, the whole topped with several layers of roofing felt.  The shed, a nominal 8' by 12', has accompanied me through two house-moves.  The wooden part of the roof, whose approximate dimensions are 8' 7" by 12' 4", is actually in two halves and at each house-move I've cut the roofing felt where the sections meet and fitted two layers of new felt overall on re-assembly.  After the first house-move, I inserted two lengths of Dexion slotted angle, vertical web upwards, between the two sections, with their ends resting on the front and rear walls.  I secured this sandwich with coach-bolts through the two relevant rafters picking up convenient holes in the slotted angle.  I have heard this sort of sandwich described as a 'flitch beam', the wooden members prevent the vertical steel webs from buckling despite their being in compression.  This flitch beam feature greatly reduces any tendency for the roof to sag in the middle.

I intend to retain all this existing structure except the roofing felt.  If the T&G boards have deteriorated (there is a leak in the felt) only then will I replace them with the shuttering ply.

I take issue with your item #4.  I plan to fit a vapour barrier of polythene sheet on the top of the T&G boards (or ply) and lay the purlins on that, spaced with noggins and with the insulation material cut to fit the spaces in the resulting frame (your item #1, my item #3).  The purlins function is to transmit the load of the steel sheets, either wind induced lift or snow load, to the existing rafters.  Because the upper surface of the insulation is flush with the upper surfaces of the purlins, the insulation will share some of the latter form of loading.  With this arrangement, the notional condensation zone will be above the insulation, the T&G boards will be in the warm zone.  I do not expect condensation to occur at that level, neither will it occur beneath the steel sheets because the vapor barrier will confine water vapour originating in the manned space to the manned space.  Also, with this arrangement the T&G boards will support the polythene vapour barrier and prevent it from drooping into the manned space.

Regarding your item #6, see the preceding paragraph above regarding load bearing.  I had originally planned to use three purlins, at the top & bottom edges and mid-span but the roof dimensions are such that a fourth purlin will reduce the total area of the spaces in the frame and avoid my having to buy a fourth 2.4 m by 1.2 m sheet of insulation.

Regarding your item #7, the manufacturers of the insulation material specify that it should be protected from the weather.  The eaves filler will satisfy this requirement and condensation at the insulation/steel sheeting interface will be minimal because moisture vapour is excluded by the vapour barrier and the eaves filler.

Regarding your item #8, I intend the new roof to be totally free of roofing felt.  The manufacturers of the steel sheets offer a matching flashing strip come fascia which I shall arrange to route the rain into the existing gutter.

For access to the central fixings of the box section steel sheets, I plan to attach battens to the underside of a scaffold board to lift it clear of the upstanding parts of the profile.

Regarding your closing remarks, my existing roof also has an organic topping but mine is of moss, acorns, oak apples and twigs.  The shed is overhung by a mature oak to the East, a large willow to the West and a struggling apple tree to the North.  I expect that these will soon apply a similar topping to the new roof!

This is my second attempt at this reply - I must have hit the wrong key just as I finished it and it seems to have got lost in cyberspace!  If it reappears and this becomes a double post, I can only throw myself on the mercy of the Moderators.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on September 21, 2013, 05:10:37 AM
I had a phone call to say the Kingspan (seconds) will be delivered on Monday.

The guy also told me that I don't need to tape the cut edges.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: DMIOM on September 21, 2013, 05:16:34 AM
I had a phone call to say the Kingspan (seconds) will be delivered on Monday.

The guy also told me that I don't need to tape the cut edges.

and, of course, he'll gladly sell you some more after the winter if this lot gets spolied by the wet ... ?
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on September 21, 2013, 08:54:08 AM
Hi there, DMIOM,

Thank you for your reply - it took me aback!!!

In response, I've revisited the Kingspan site and see that the pitched roofing grade is not allowed to get wet.

I was a bit misled by discussions with a friend - he has just finished roofing a large workshop with roof panels comprising an inner steel skin and an outer profiled steel skin separated by a foam insulation layer.  These panels are made by Kingspan and he reckons that the foam in them is closed-cell.  His architect's designs just call for any exposed foam to be protected by flashing strips.

I shall store my sheets under cover and tape any cut surfaces.  It does mean that the joints in my timber framework will need to be kept from intruding into the corners of the spaces.

Thanks again for prompting me to check that aspect of things.   :beer:   :beer:   :beer:   
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on September 26, 2013, 04:53:19 AM
Hi there, all,

I'm suffering a bit of morale-droop here these last couple of days!   :(   :(   :(   :(   :(   :( 

The insulation has been delivered but is occupying ALL the spare space in the tin shed so I can't work in there.   :bang:  :bang:  :bang:

The steel roof sheets are on order and paid for but I haven't been given a delivery slot yet.   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:  Or an order acknowledgement!!   :bang:   :bang:   :bang: 

Dealing with three dead computers and also building a new gaming computer for my lovely but shy assistant has diverted me from getting out and foraging for the timber for the new roof frame.   :bang:   :bang:   :bang: 

And the weather has turned wet so I can't yet start to strip off the old roofing felt!   :bang:   :bang:   :bang: 

What I really want to do is work IN my workshop but I can't even work ON my workshop!   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:   :bang: 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on September 26, 2013, 06:12:45 AM
Buy a cheap pop up gazebo off ebay for £30, shove all the materials under it and get on with the shed
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on October 04, 2013, 03:07:03 PM
Hi there, all,

I have now taken delivery of Kingspan insulation, box section plastic coated steel roof sheeting & fixings and 6-off, 4.8 metre lengths of 100 mm x 50 mm CLS.  I've also found some nice heavy-gauge polythene sheeting for the vapour barrier, in fact enough for a double layer.

The weather forecast for East Hampshire looks good and dry for the next few days so I plan to strip off the old roofing felt on the workshop quam celerime.  In preparation for that, I first need to prop the centre of the roof from the inside, just in case.
I've also got a couple of 12' x 8' tarpaulins in case the local cricket club ('white man's powerful rain-making magic'!) negate the weather forecast.   :lol:   :lol:   :lol: 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: vtsteam on October 04, 2013, 03:58:11 PM
Well if you get our weather after it crosses the pond, you're in for a lovely spell of summer like conditions -- we had it for nearly a week. It was a joy to be outside, and the fall colors are fantastic this year. So fingers crossed, your shed plans should go well!  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: RossJarvis on October 08, 2013, 06:42:51 AM
Hiya Pete :thumbup:

I'd missed the latest progress, Sympathies re the lack of shed space hopefully you've managed to get somewhere with the recent gaps in the rain.  Remember, if you need a hand give us a bell or e-letter.  I can't promise to answer the phone or be able to come round, but it's worth a try at least.

Ross
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on October 08, 2013, 10:57:01 AM
Hi there, Ross,

Thank you for your post.  Thanks also for the offer of help, much appreciated.   :beer:   :beer:   :beer: 

I currently have the trunks of six mature stinging nettles in the garden -  they're big ones, 4.8 metres of 100 x 50 mm CLS.  The timber yard doesn't seem to sell the hairy rough-sawn timber anymore!  They arrived on Friday afternoon and promptly got a coat of green pickle in case of rain.  The 'pickle' is called 'Duck's Back', I hope it lives up to its name.  I've been tinkering with the shed roof in preparation for my gallivanting about up there!  One task was to insert a 10' length of Dexion slotted angle (the big one, about 2½" x 1½") to relieve the load across the top of the two big front windows.   That meant removing the screws that fixed the front edge of the roof to the front wall!  The Dexion stops those screws going back in their original places so the replacement attachment will use some angle brackets.

Another task was making and fitting a couple of tapered blocks to the underside of two of the rafters to take a prop.  I set out to measure the slope of the rafters using the protractor from my Moore & Wright engineer's square kit - that failed because the spirit-level bubble was so close to the roof I couldn't see it!   :doh:   :doh:   :doh: 

The prop will consist of a horizontal length of 3" x 3" supported by a 4" x 4" x 6' gate-post one end and a length of 100 mm x 50 mm that I've just brought back from the timber yard.  It'll be fine-tuned with some handy plastic wedges.  Once all that is in place, I can start to remove the old roofing felt.

I keep under-estimating the time these sub-tasks will take!   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:  When there's a bit more progress to report, I'll try to take some photos.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: RossJarvis on October 10, 2013, 03:13:01 PM

I keep under-estimating the time these sub-tasks will take!   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:  When there's a bit more progress to report, I'll try to take some photos.

Re-jigging my Dad's advice on spending money, carefully think about all the things that need doing, add on 1/3 for mistakes and come up with a time, round this up to the next largest time span.  Then double this.  You will still take longer to get the job in.  I also tend to double this again to take in tea breaks etc. (it still takes longer) :scratch:.  It might be better squaring or cubing the second estimate.

Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on October 12, 2013, 12:21:38 PM
Hi there, all,

At last, I have some progress to report!   :D   :D   :D 

I started by fitting the length of Dexion slotted angle to give added support to the front of the roof over the two front windows. 
After I removed the screws securing the roof, I tried to lift the roof but failed completely!!   :bang:   :bang:   :bang: 

Then, out of the blue, we had a visit from my #1 step-son and his girlfriend.  'Did you have your spinach this morning, Bob?' says I.  'Why?' says Bob.  Well, he took one look at the situation, rolled up his sleeves and heaved.  It was almost a 'You're only supposed to blow the b****y doors off!' moment, I thought he was going to put the roof into orbit!  Anyway, here's the result:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageLongFeltWant001_zps5ed65710.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageLongFeltWant001_zps5ed65710.jpg.html)

That piece of Dexion only extends a couple of inches beyond each end of the windows but at 10' long it's the longest length they stock.  The Dexion blocks the holes where the original screws went so I fitted some angle brackets to re-attach the roof to the front wall.  The sharp-eyed among you may notice that I used countersunk screws - I intended to use round-heads but their 'pro-drive' sockets didn't fit my Pozidrive screwdriver!

The next stage was to fit a temporary prop to the underside of the roof to give added support for my 15½ stone while I was gallivanting about on top!  I made and fitted a couple of tapered packing pieces so that the prop had a level surface to bed against.  The prop has three parts, a length of 3" x 3" timber, a 6' long 4" x 4" gate-post and a 6' length of 4" x 2".  The pillar of the drilling machine was in the right place to play a part in the rigging and operation.  My lovely but shy assistant called it 'a Heath-Robinson affair'!  Here's a photo:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageLongFeltWant002_zps5040fee7.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageLongFeltWant002_zps5040fee7.jpg.html)

After all that, it was a case of get up the ladder and strip off the felt.  That's taken a couple of days with a shed-free day in between (my 76-year old knees can only take so much!).  As of this afternoon, the felt is all off.  My lovely but shy assistant has done a superb job tearing all the felt into small pieces ready to go to the tip.  Here's what it looked like when we'd done:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageLongFeltWant003_zpsa7689b00.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageLongFeltWant003_zpsa7689b00.jpg.html)

And here's a close-up of one corner:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageLongFeltWant004_zpsbcae61e6.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageLongFeltWant004_zpsbcae61e6.jpg.html)

Not exactly prime quality timber but it's not in bad condition considering I bought the shed in 1993.  Of course, the shed is now vulnerable to the weather so it was 'Pipe all hands aloft to set the main-sail'! (i.e. fit a couple of 12' x 8' tarpaulins.)  Just like an instalment from the Hornblower series.  From inside the shed I can see lines of blue light through the gaps in the roof boards.

Very pleased to have completed this part of the job  :ddb:   :ddb:   :ddb:   :ddb:  but the weather looks as though it'll be a couple of days before we can do the next part which is fitting the vapour barrier.  (As Ross said in his post, the Hampshire Monsoon is upon us!) 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: vtsteam on October 12, 2013, 02:38:51 PM
Here's hoping the tarps do their job! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

And a good supply of buckets and pots and and cans if they don't -- as mine don't whenever I try to do something like that. Water pools in the cracks and spaces, bulges for awhile, and then.......ploink, ploink, ploink!  :(
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on October 13, 2013, 04:24:06 PM
Here's hoping the tarps do their job! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

And a good supply of buckets and pots and and cans if they don't -- as mine don't whenever I try to do something like that. Water pools in the cracks and spaces, bulges for awhile, and then.......ploink, ploink, ploink!  :(

Hi there, Steve,

 :bang:   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:   :bang: 

I regret to report that the tarps didn't!

I carefully covered the bare boards of the roof before leaving the job last evening, roping the tarpaulins' eyelets down to large screw eyes .  It started to rain here later on.  We went to visit a family member this morning and soon as we got home I went to check the shed.  The tarps didn't seem to have kept any water out at all - everything is dripping wet!  The contents of any upward facing vessels with a waterproof bottom (e.g. tote boxes) are probably swimming now!

As a temporary measure, I've spread out the heavy gauge polythene I intend to use as the vapour barrier on top of the tarpaulins and weighted it down with about about three dozen house bricks.  It was too late to attempt a rescue operation this afternoon.  A friend of ours lent us a dehumidifier a few months ago when our motor car was suffering rainwater ingress - I'll ask him if he can lend it to us again.  That's once I've established that it's safe to switch on the electricity.  Otherwise it'll be a mop and bucket job.   :(   :(   :(   :(   :(   :( 

I suppose I could always ask my lovely but shy assistant if I can bring the lathe and drilling machine into the living room for a few days.   :lol:   :lol:   :lol:
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on October 13, 2013, 04:44:03 PM
Pete, very sorry to hear that, anything I can do obviously ask. I do have a largish commercial de-humidifier you'd be welcome to borrow, but iirc you're the other end of the A272 so possibly a bit far to travel.

Do you have any places locally selling pelletised sawdust? I use it for spillages and it's excellent drawing the moisture out (The wife buys it by the half ton in 10kG bags for Goose bedding)

Lots of ventilation
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on October 13, 2013, 05:08:07 PM
Hi there, Andrew,

Thank you for your post, your sympathy and for your kind offer.  However, as you say, we're further apart than I have the time to travel - I'd rather spend the time mopping up.  As I said, we might be able to borrow a dehumidifier closer to home.

A good hint about the saw-dust, though.  We have yet another friend who makes kitchens and generates lots of sawdust; the only think is that his sawdust is predominately from MDF.  Do you think that would be sufficiently absorbent?  Or does it have to be pelletised? 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on October 13, 2013, 05:32:44 PM
Pelletised stuff is just easier to handle. I wouldn't hesitate, just dowse things in sawdust then sweep it up or clean it up with a wet'n dry workshop hoover. Put delicate stuff like verniers and dial guages in a poly bag with some rice from the kitchen - that sucks moisture out very well as well.

I've been known to pour cement powder on the floor in a crisis, but that was when a bottle of Hydrochloric Acid got spilled  :bugeye: and the (alkaline ) cement not only absorbed the HCl but neutralised it as well. Loads of fizzing of course  :ddb:



 :zap: :zap: (Oh yes, life gets exciting round here sometimes)  :zap: :zap:
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on October 16, 2013, 06:57:04 AM
Hi there, all,

Andrew, I hope that you are well and/but not over-doing things.  Thank you for your recent offer of help following my leaky tarpaulin problem.

I collected the dehumidifier from our friends on Monday morning and set it to work.  By that time the water had ceased to drip from the underside of the roof.  There was some free water on the vinyl floor covering but otherwise far less elsewhere than I'd expected 'après le déluge' of Sunday evening!  Maybe there is some water lurking out of sight!

The dehumidifier collected about two litres on Monday.  I moved some tote boxes of stuff indoors and was pleased to find no water in them.  The PVC cover seems to have kept any water from getting into the lathe swarf tray.

I didn't operate the dehumidifier on Tuesday because I'd removed the polythene and tarpaulins to let the sun get to the upper surface of the roof boards.   I had previously thought that the roof boards were T&G but they're just plain rough-sawn, far from uniform thickness and some waney.  After a couple of hours, I swept the remaining mineral granules (shed from the roofing felt while it was being stripped-off) off the roof and gave its upper surface a good coat of wood preservative.  I tried to leave that as much time to dry as possible before replacing the polythene with the tarpaulins on top and roped-down to keep all in place.  It's wet today so the covering will be left in-place with the dehumidifier running again.

The next stage will be to fix the polythene vapour barrier in place properly and then to make the timber frame - the weather forecast for tomorrow is mostly dry so hopefully I'll be able to make a start with those tasks.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on October 16, 2013, 07:11:19 AM
Pete, Glad it's going back together, and thanks for the thoughts. Hopefully I'm doing enough to keep my sanity but not too much!

When  the vapour barrier is up at least you can rest easy that it'll be starting to dry out, but it's amazing how much moisture a building can contain in it's structure. Controlled ventilation is the key - make sure that you choose the drier days for the open doors and windows!

Dehumidifiers will only work when there is a bit of warmth about - the moisture has to be in the air to be condensed by the machine. Also the shed needs to be pretty well airtight when it's running. When we were desperately drying out our kitchen extension last winter I had mine, and a hired, dehumidifier running 24/7 but to get them going had to put a 4kW electric air heater in for a few hours to warm the air. Once it started working the heat of the driers was enough to keep the temperature up as they each consumed something like 3 kW when running.

Reading the electricity bill was enough to keep us warm !

Good luck,

Andrew
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: RossJarvis on October 16, 2013, 05:14:18 PM
We had a dehumidifier in our bathroom.  The beloved thought it a good idea to always leave the window open when I wasn't looking :smart:.  Explaining how difficult it is to dehumidify Hampshire and West Sussex didn't go down too well! :hammer:
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: vtsteam on October 16, 2013, 08:24:24 PM
Glad you got it under control Pete, and your things spared. Wishing you good weather until you've got your roof on.  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on October 31, 2013, 05:33:53 PM
Hi there, all,

I've continued to work on this project, as weather has permitted.

One task has been to convert this:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageFrameRawMaterial_zps110c28ac.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageFrameRawMaterial_zps110c28ac.jpg.html)

to this:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofFrame101_zpsef46d263.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofFrame101_zpsef46d263.jpg.html)

I know that's a crude drawing - I tried to produce it in Autosketch but failed utterly!!   :bang:   :bang:   :bang: 

   :offtopic:  Does anyone know whether you can enter the coordinates of a rectangle (diagonally opposite corners) from the keyboard in Autosketch 9?

I've got the six-off 4.8 metre lengths cut into the correct length pieces for the frame (not very photogenic so no picture of them!) but they're not assembled yet (see below).

Another task has been to trim the rough edges off the three 2.4 metre by 1.2 metre sheets of Kingspan and to tape the edges.  My lovely but shy assistant helped me do the first sheet and then Ross came over today and helped me with the other two - thank you, Ross.   :beer:  :thumbup:  :beer:   :thumbup:   :beer:   :thumbup:

I was torn between assembling the frame in-situ on top of the old shed roof and assembling it at ground level (well, on trestles).  The former would have been awkward while the latter would have required us to lift the whole thing into position, quite heavy and tricky to steer past several overhanging tree branches!  Then I realised that if I make four of the joints capable of being disconnected we could lift the frame in two parts and re-assemble just those joints and the centre row of noggins in situ.

That required another shopping trip to buy some fancy wood-screws that provide good grip in end-grain.  Because the joints are close to the ends of the timbers, I intend to drill pilot holes for both the wood-screws and the fancy outdoor treated nails so I also had to buy some long series twist drills.  Actually, the joints only have to withstand the loads of handling - once the steel roof-sheets and flashings are on, their fixings will hold the frame together. 
 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on October 31, 2013, 05:40:06 PM
Glad it's all coming back together Pete. Watch the lifting - don't want anything popping out that shouldn't  :ddb:
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: vtsteam on October 31, 2013, 09:19:01 PM
Pete, good idea about the section assembly! Working alone or shorthanded gets you to be creative with your thinking! Sure beats struggling to do something that is nearly impossible or dangerous.

I like your idea!  :thumbup: :clap:
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on November 07, 2013, 12:32:12 PM
Hi there, all,

I've managed to grab most of the dry days to get some more work done on the roof frame for the big shed.  I cut up the six 4.8 metre lengths of 100 x 50 CLS timber into the lengths determined by my drawing (supported by some VERY careful measurements of the existing roof).  Much to my pleasant surprise, the lengths of the roof at both the high and low edges were equal to within a millimetre as were the widths at both ends and both the diagonal measurements!    :D   :D   :D 

After giving all the cut ends a coat of 'Duck's Back', I marked them out with my Sabatier marking knife.  It then rained for several days and although I covered the pieces as well as I could, I feared the wood might swell and erase the markings.  [My lovely but shy assistant often tells me 'not to make the negative waves'   :hammer:   :hammer:   :hammer:  ]  (That was a film quote!)

Not having a workbench 12' 6" by 8' 6", I had to improvise a bit, not helped by the uneven terrain of our back garden!  I then started the assembly.  The four outer corner joints were a bit tricky and needed a bit of help from my lovely but shy assistant.  Once those were secure, I could fix the remainder single-handed.

Here are a few photos:

The first two show how I clamped-up each joint, holding the pieces together in-position while I drilled pilot holes and drove the screws.  (The off-cut of timber held by the two largest cramps is the one that permits single-handed assembly.)

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageFrameAssembly001_zps5bb58033.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageFrameAssembly001_zps5bb58033.jpg.html)

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageFrameAssembly002_zps71f88e00.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageFrameAssembly002_zps71f88e00.jpg.html)

This next one shows the situation at close of play this afternoon.

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageFrameAssembly003c_zpsabc9769a.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageFrameAssembly003c_zpsabc9769a.jpg.html)

The diagonally opposite corner joints nearest to and furthest from the camera and the adjacent joints between the inner purlins and the end pieces are each secured with two wood-screws; they are the joints that will be demounted to divide the frame into two sections to facilitate lifting onto the shed roof.  All the other joints in the photo are secured with two wood-screws plus a large nail.  The middle row of noggins will also be demountable for lifting.

The noggin intended for the position nearest the camera proved to be a whisker too long.  I didn't want to drive it into position for fear of straining the corner joint.   :bang:   :bang:   :bang: 

I have a further 2.4 metre length of timber so I shall cut an extra noggin to fit that position.  I also need a tenth noggin because I've modified the plan from the drawing in my last posting.  I spent some of the rainy days scheming out various ways of cutting the Kingspan insulation and the best scheme I've found requires several noggins to be repositioned and an extra one added.  When I've completed the ground-level trial assembly, I'll take another photo to show the frame in its revised form.

As there will be several pieces cvompletely removed from the frame for the lifting process, I'll need to choose a system of marks so that each piece goes back into the right place!  The marks will be made with a Sharpie pen - not incised with a chisel like the green oak framers' method!   :D   :D   :D   

In the background of the third photo, you can see the box section steel sheets awaiting their turn in the project!
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on November 16, 2013, 10:55:22 AM
Hi there, all,

Well, I've managed to make a bit more progress, here's a photo:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageFrameAssembly005c_zps8e30c203-1.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageFrameAssembly005c_zps8e30c203-1.jpg.html)

It's a frame, it's green, but it isn't OAK!  Still, 2 out of 3 can't be too bad!   :ddb:   :ddb:   :ddb: 

As you can see, I've now fitted all the noggins.  I've even managed to annotate the photo - all the joints marked with a D will be demounted to separate the frame into two major sections for easier lifting onto the shed roof.  Just re-making those joints in-situ will be easier on the knees than if I had tried to assemble the entire frame up there!  Nevertheless, I've bought myself a fancy pair of memory foam knee pads!

But before I do any of that, I shall lay an 8' x 4' sheet of shuttering ply on top of the frame to make a level surface to support the Kingspan insulation while I cut the pieces to size to fit the various frame openings.  Having chocked-up the frame to be out of winding, it's the most level surface in the place!  When I've finished cutting the Kingspan, and the ply is removed, I'll fix a few temporary braces to the frame before demounting the D joints.

Another minor task that I need to do before the 'Big Lift' is to finish stapling down the edges of the polythene sheet and vapour barrier and to trim off the surplus all round.

For the 'Big Lift', I shall mobilise any available heavy gang but the basic plan is to position two 10' sections of aluminium ladder with their lower ends on the flower bed and their upper ends just over the top of the shed roof and slide the frame sections up them.  That part of flower bed is significantly higher than the floor level of the shed so the ladder sections should be at a manageable slope.

Because the overall length of the frame is determined by the pattern geometry of the box-section steel sheets, the frame is actually slightly longer than the existing shed roof.  I still have to decide whether I want the overhang at the door end, the other end, or a bit at each end.   :scratch:   :scratch:   :scratch:   
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on November 16, 2013, 11:13:13 AM
Looking good Pete  :thumbup:

I'd suggest overhang by the door - a bit of shelter is always useful. I have strategically placed golfing umbrellas at the doors of my various outside workplaces as I hate donning coats 'just to nip over to the workshop' - and room to raise & lower them when it's raining is very useful  :wave:

Andrew
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on December 06, 2013, 12:17:03 PM
Hi there, all,

   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D 

Today has been the long-awaited 'Big Lift' day.

The weather has been sunny and dry and the essential preparation work had been completed.  I demounted the appropriate joints in the roof frame and rigged a section of ladder from the 'flower bed' to the edge of the existing roof.  Then, my lovely but shy assistant and I hauled the two main parts of the frame up the ladder onto the roof.

Here are a couple of photos:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageBigLift202_zps3204fe72.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageBigLift202_zps3204fe72.jpg.html)

In that photo you can see the section of ladder we used to guide the frame sections during their upward journey.

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageBigLift303_zps91c1c147.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageBigLift303_zps91c1c147.jpg.html)

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageBigLift404_zpsba40b58c.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageBigLift404_zpsba40b58c.jpg.html)

By that time, man's best friend was demanding her morning promenade, following which I fortified myself with a light lunch and then donned my posh new memory foam kneelers!  (No photo of the kneelers!  I had a choice of colours, fuschia or gooseberry - I figured fuschia would be a bit too girly so opted for gooseberry but that's not exactly macho either!)

I secured the down-hill section of the frame to the existing shed roof using 100 mm repair plates at intervals along the lower edge and the back end so that the frame was pulled square.  Then I reunited the two sections of the frame and fitted and secured the centre row of noggins.  That brought it to this stage:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageBigLift505_zpsf2aa72be.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageBigLift505_zpsf2aa72be.jpg.html)

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageBigLift101_zps602c1ea2.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageBigLift101_zps602c1ea2.jpg.html)

The polythene sheet beneath the frame is not the vapour barrier - it is to protect the vapour barrier.  The vapour barrier is quite light gauge polythene so I sandwiched it between two layers of heavier gauge polythene to protect it from the roughness of the existing roof boards beneath and my hob-nailed boots above.

When we'd got the frame fixed, there was still plenty of daylight left so we fitted the Kingspan - I'd previously cut it into pieces sized to fit the frame cells.  I also had some aluminized bubble-wrap so I cut that into suitable size rectangles and put them into each frame cell before squeezing in the Kingspan.  Unfortunately, the daylight had almost gone by the time the Kingspan was in position so no photo of that today - maybe tomorrow.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on December 06, 2013, 12:42:15 PM
Excellent Pete 

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

It must be a great relief to have it in place at last, but no slacking now, as you must get those roofing sheets on forthwith before the weather undoes all your good work.

Andrew
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on December 06, 2013, 02:43:45 PM
Hi there, Andrew,

Thank you for your encouragement.

I've just found another photo that, for some reason, didn't upload before.  It should have been the first one in my previous post as it shows the ladder section in-situ.  Here it is:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageBigLift106_zps9651ebc4.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageBigLift106_zps9651ebc4.jpg.html)

My father made that wooden step-ladder for me, back in 1960!

Getting the frame sections onto the ladder required us to negotiate the obstacle course you see in the photo!  I have to say I'm not proud of that corner of our garden - it'll have to be tidied up soon.

I've got a few more repair plate fixings to fit to the up-hill edge of the roof frame to secure it to the original roof and I have a board to fit to the underside of the overhanging end of the frame (over the shed door as you advised, all 90 mm of it!!).

Then I have to fit the sheet metal flashings along the back end and the two long sides of the frame.  The thing about those is that they and the roof sheets will cover up the purlins so I have to put some reference marks somewhere to ensure that the self-drilling fixing screws go into the purlins as near their centre-lines as possible and NOT into the Kingspan.

Our local weather forecast remains dry and calm for the next few days - I'm almost feeling guilty for that, after seeing the scenes of inundation and storm damage up-country on the TV News!
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: RossJarvis on December 08, 2013, 06:09:39 PM
Good progress so far my friend.  Looking at the last photo of "access paraphernalia" brings to mind those HSE pamphlets of how not to do things, what do they know :loco:
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on December 17, 2013, 04:07:47 PM
Hi there, all,

At last, I've got some illustrated progress to share.

I've been held back by wet weather, short days, walking man's best friend, writing Christmas cards and waiting in for a gas cooker repair man.

The gas cooker fault was electrical and serious - no oven = no Christmas turkey!   :zap:   :bang:   :zap:   :bang:   :zap: 
Happily, the second repair visit took place today (ETA between 10:31 and 12:31, where does their computer get these times?) and seems to have fixed the problem.

Here is a photo of the roof when work started this morning:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheets002c_zpsa10b1de5.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheets002c_zpsa10b1de5.jpg.html)

You can see the frame with the nearest cells loaded with Kingspan.  (The light reflected from the Kingspan foil covering seems to have given the camera a problem - I had a go at the pictures with MicroSoft Photo Editor but couldn't achieve any improvement.)  At the far end, you can just see the corners of the tarpaulin, I left the ropes on that end attached in case sudden rain required me to replace the tarpaulin.  You can also see the length of flashing along the lower edge of the roof and the two roof sheets that I managed to fit last Saturday; the second sheet only had a minimum number of fixings at this stage.  The far sheet is concealing the length of flashing fitted to the far end.  On the near end of the roof you can see the crawler boards I used once I decided to work from the top rather than over each side off the top of a ladder.

On the high edge of the roof, you can see a board temporarily nailed to the edge of the frame.  The function of that board is to provide a stop against which each roof sheet is to be pushed to keep them in line.  That didn't work out quite as I'd hoped.  Where the sheets overlap, I've applied a bead of butyl sealing strip to the upper surface of the underneath box - once the upper sheet touches that sealing strip it's grabbed and further movement is impossible.  You need to have it in position before they touch!

So, both before and after today's cooker repair call, I was able to get some work done.  Today's activity comprised completing the fixing of sheet #2 and fitting sheets #3 and #4.  I've been fitting the fixing screws along the inner purlins first.  Then I fitted the foam polythene eaves filler between the roof sheets and the flashing along the lower edge followed by the lowest row of fixing screws.  I was able to do those working off the step-ladder - didn't need the gooseberry kneelers!

The fixing screws are described as 'self drilling' but I've found it necessary to centre pop and drill a small pilot hole, especially where the screw has to go through both roof sheet AND flashing.  They come with a pre-fitted metal washer and synthetic rubber sealing washer.

The light was going and it started to rain just as I was fixing the last few screws this afternoon (sunset at 15:57) so I wasn't able to get a photo of all the roof sheets in position.  Still, I packed up feeling quite chuffed at our progress and left the tarpaulin where you see it in the photo.   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D  I'll try for a photo at the start of the next session.

My lovely but shy assistant played a key role in today's (and every day's) activities, helping carry the roof sheets and passing up to me various tools that I'd left at ground level but discovered I needed once I'd climbed up onto the roof.

The next work package is to drill the fixing holes along the top edge of the roof sheets, remove the board, fit the eaves filler and then fit the screws.  Then the flashing along the top edge fits on top of the roof sheets with its own gap filler and is screwed to the edge of the frame and the top of the roof sheet boxes.

The flashing along the lower edge need some more screws to attach it to the frame and the older roof fascia and I'll need to check that the rain does get from the edge of the roof sheets safely into the gutter - it now has 4" further to fall and might need some guidance!

I also need to contrive some form of flashing for the near end of the roof.  I didn't buy enough from the roof sheet supplier but I think carriage on just one 3 metre length of flashing might make it unaffordable.  We'll press on with the other jobs and see what the old grey cells throw up.
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on December 17, 2013, 04:34:00 PM
Hoo blooming ray - at last a roof  :clap: :clap:

You're supposed to fix the roof in the fine weather, not Christmas Eve  :lol:

Andrew
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on December 18, 2013, 05:15:02 AM
Yes, hoo blooming ray!!   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D   :D 

Thanks to a sunny interval this morning, here's the photo it was too dark to take at close of play yesterday:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheets003c_zps5a052524.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheets003c_zps5a052524.jpg.html)

As I listed in yesterday's post, there are still a few minor tasks to complete but I can even do some of those in the rain!   :ddb:   :ddb:   :ddb: 

One challenge that's puzzling me, though, is how do I dry and fold a 4 metre by 5 metre tarpaulin?   :scratch:   :scratch:   :scratch:   :scratch: 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: PeterE on December 18, 2013, 05:48:13 AM
To dry the tarpaulin I would have done as follows.

Found an indoors space like a garage which is long enough for the long edge of the tarp.

Hang the tarp over a pipe or a wooden "beam" (something like 2x2) and suspend the "beam" from the cieling using ropes.

This way it would not get anymore wet than it is, and may take as long as needed to dry out without being in the way too much.

BR

/Peter
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Stilldrillin on December 18, 2013, 07:38:15 AM
That looks good from here, Pete!  :thumbup:

Well done.  :clap: :clap:

David D
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: SwarfnStuff on December 19, 2013, 02:39:16 AM
Well Mr Pete, if you just bung your tarp in a reply paid envelope (about the cost of three new tarps)  :lol: and send it down here to OZ it would dry in about 30-45minutes. 40deg C here today (and that's in the southern states). So guess who did not venture into the shed today.
I really enjoyed following your adventures with the shed build.
Thanks for posting.
John B
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on December 19, 2013, 03:25:24 AM
Pete,

Realistically as you don't have the inside space, with that tarp, just roll it up and hide it somewhere outside, and in the spring spread it on the lawn, and hose and brush it down when it has a chance of drying.

Andrew

Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Stilldrillin on December 19, 2013, 03:41:33 AM
Tarps?

I usually commandeer the washing line, during a dry day.  :thumbup:

Incidentally...... Is all ok, after yesterday's storm?

David D
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on December 19, 2013, 05:49:37 AM
Hi there, all,

Thank you all for your posts.

To dry the tarpaulin I would have done as follows.

Found an indoors space like a garage which is long enough for the long edge of the tarp.

Hang the tarp over a pipe or a wooden "beam" (something like 2x2) and suspend the "beam" from the cieling using ropes.

This way it would not get anymore wet than it is, and may take as long as needed to dry out without being in the way too much.

BR

/Peter

Wow, Peter, that would be a space 5 metres long and a bit more than 2 metres high - that's the stuff of dreams!  Only Andrew has that sort of space!   :D   :D   :D 

Well Mr Pete, if you just bung your tarp in a reply paid envelope (about the cost of three new tarps)  :lol: and send it down here to OZ it would dry in about 30-45minutes. 40deg C here today (and that's in the southern states). So guess who did not venture into the shed today.
I really enjoyed following your adventures with the shed build.
Thanks for posting.
John B

Thanks for the offer, John, 40°C would have me looking for an air-conditioned space somewhere.  Actually, if my experience with the smaller leaky tarpaulins even in the UK climate is anything to go by, the UV that probably goes with 40°C would have the tarp in shreds in about 20 minutes flat!   :zap:   :zap:   :zap:  With my old felted roof, my workshop was too cold in most of the winter and too hot for a lot of the summer, that's why I've gone for the complication of the roof frame and incorporated the 75 mm (that's nominal - it's actually nearer 82 mm) Kingspan.  The walls are already insulated with fibreglass bats between the studs, they have T&G boards on the outside and 6" x 1" planed boards on the inside.  Unfortunately, when I committed to that construction for the walls, I didn't know about vapour barriers - it'd be too much of a disruption to fit a vapour barrier in there now.

Pete,

Realistically as you don't have the inside space, with that tarp, just roll it up and hide it somewhere outside, and in the spring spread it on the lawn, and hose and brush it down when it has a chance of drying.

Andrew


Yes, Andrew, that's probably what it'll come down to.

Tarps?

I usually commandeer the washing line, during a dry day.  :thumbup:

Incidentally...... Is all ok, after yesterday's storm?

David D

Well, David, it certainly blew some last night, though probably not as fiercely as they got further up-country.  Most of the 6' by 6' fence panels between us and the neighbour at the bottom of the garden (on the right in my last two photos) had already come down in the previous blow.  Fortunately for me, they are his side of the wire netting fence that defines the boundary (dating from when the houses were built, about 1935) but I've lent him my 9" post hole borer and I'll probably be able to help him a bit now my roof sheets are on.  It's the old, old problem - folks go for wooden posts for cheapness but they soon go carrotty at ground level.  Not the neighbour's fault, the posts and panels were put in by the previous house-holder.  Most of the top 5' of the posts are probably still usable if he bought some concrete spurs and long bolts.

I'm writing this while I recover my breath after a bit of excavation along the front wall of the shed, I should now have a level surface to put a board on to support the foot of the ladder.  Then the next job is to fit the fastenings along the high edge of the shed roof.

I visited the local branch of ScrewFix yesterday to buy a roll of 150 mm damp course - I planned to fit it under the flashing on the low edge of the roof to help the rainwater into the gutter.  Would you believe it, they were out of stock of all widths of damp course from 100 mm to 232 mm!!   :bang:   :bang:   :bang:  Never mind, it was only 20 miles drive each way!!
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on December 21, 2013, 12:51:08 PM
Hi there, all,

   :update:   :update:   :update: 

I have completed some of the tasks listed in my earlier post.  I regret that because I've been working to get the most done in each spell of dry weather and/or daylight, I don't have photos yet.  If any of the following is a bit difficult to visualise, please be patient until I get a photo opportunity!   :bow:   :bow:   :bow: 

I marked out for the fixing screws for the upper edge of the roof sheets, taking the temporary wooden board as my reference to ensure that the screws go into the wooden frame rather than into the Kingspan.  I also marked lines in the roof sheet valleys where I would later fit the filler strips for the flashing.  Then I removed the board, fitted the eaves filler and drilled and fitted the fixing screws.

After that, I fitted a few repair plates (they'd be more accurately termed 'repair strips' than 'repair plates' as they're 100 mm by 12 mm) between the new frame and the old fascia along the upper edge of the roof.  Then I applied double-sided tape to the foam polythene filler strips and positioned them against the previously marked lines on the sheets.  Then I fitted a full 3 metre length and a 1 metre length of flashing along the upper edge, over the filler strips, and drilled and screwed the flashing to the tops of the roof sheet boxes.  To complete that session, I drilled and screwed the vertical face of the flashing to the edge of the roof frame.  The repair plates sit proud of the surface of the frame and fascia, life's too short to have recessed them, and they're not very well countersunk. 
The fixing screws pull the flashing in fairly tight where they can so the finished job is wavy, rather reminiscent of the hull plating of a modern welded frigate!   :(   :(   :(   :(   :(   :( 

I've found a part-roll of wide plastic damp-proof course - I plan to cut it down to 150 mm and fit it under the flashing on the lower edge of the roof to help the rain water into the existing gutter.  I hope the offcut will serve to be attached under the flashing on the upper edge of the roof so as to cover the join between the new roof frame and the old fascia.  (The flashing, 150 mm by 150 mm, sits higher on that edge of the roof by the height of the box profiles of the roof sheets.) 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on December 24, 2013, 09:14:08 AM
Hi there, all,

  :update:   :update:   :update:   :update:   :update:   :update:

Just taking a break from the annual ritual 'tidy the living room ready for Christmas'.  Working hard at it this year in return for my lovely but shy assistant's support in putting up with several of the tote box refugees from the leaky shed roof tarpaulins lodging in the living room for the last few weeks!   :clap:   :clap:   :clap: 

They are all clear from the living room now and mostly returned to the big shed.  There's still a lot of cleaning up, sorting out and tidy stowing to do in the shed.

The sun showed itself for a few brief spells this morning and I was able to get a few more photos.

Here's one of the flashing along the lower edge of the roof:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing002_zpsdecbb6d9.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing002_zpsdecbb6d9.jpg.html)

And here's a close-up showing the details including the eaves filler:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing001_zpscec5ffe6.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing001_zpscec5ffe6.jpg.html)

Here's the corresponding view of the upper edge of the roof:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing004_zps861b8024.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing004_zps861b8024.jpg.html)

You can see the holes in the original fascias left after removing the roofing felt nails and you can also see the waviness I referred to in my previous post.

and here's a closer shot:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing003_zps91681186.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing003_zps91681186.jpg.html)

Here is a view of the flashing on the upper edge looking up the slope of the roof:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing005_zps60120b6b.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing005_zps60120b6b.jpg.html)

and here's a closer shot showing the filler between the roof sheets and the flashing:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing006_zpse67e132b.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing006_zpse67e132b.jpg.html)

The weather forecast for Thursday looks good but as it's Boxing Day I expect we'll be visiting family sometime during the day.  Then Saturday doesn't look too bad.   
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on December 24, 2013, 09:30:22 AM
Glad to see that you got there at last Pete. Proof is moving stuff back !

Have a good Christmas

Andrew
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: chipenter on December 24, 2013, 11:06:35 AM
had to buy a tarp today to cover my roof I would have dried one of yours for you .
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on December 24, 2013, 11:45:28 AM
I have a large, old, 'resaw' band saw with 24" wheels sitting on my barn loading dock waiting to be rebuilt, and last nights storm ripped the tarpaulin right off  it. Amazingly the tarp itself was only slightly torn, and in this mornings calm the wife and I wrapped it all up again. Only needs the prezzy label now and we can put it under the Christmas tree  :ddb:

Andrew
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on December 28, 2013, 09:54:36 AM
Hi there, Andrew,

Have your floods gone down yet?

I don't have a loading dock but I do have an old machine behind my big shed - an aged Myford capstan lathe, I think it's a cousin of the Myford ML2.  It's something of an embarrassment!   :(   :(   :(   :(   :(   :( 

I bought some other machinery from an eBay seller and he pressed this lathe on me, saying that he'd sold it to someone else, 'buyer collects', but the buyer had defaulted and would I take it off his hands.

The friend I thought might have a use for it didn't and I don't have any under-cover storage for it so it has sat outside under a fast-disintegrating tarpaulin for several years.    :(   :(   :(   :(   :(   :(  It's sitting on a couple of big concrete blocks so it's off the ground but, even so, I guess it's kind of rusty by now.

I can't decide whether to weigh it in at the local scrappie's or list it on eBay 'for spares or repair'!   :scratch:   :scratch:   :scratch:   :scratch:   :scratch:   :scratch: 

I've seen lathes listed on eBay that look worse!!!!!
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on December 28, 2013, 10:21:11 AM
Hi there, all,

Well, I reached the stage of tidying up the front and rear edges of the roof.  The basic plan was to slide and fix some plastic damp-course under the metal flashing.  Along the rear edge that would help the rain water into the gutter while along the upper edge it would cover the repair plates and shield the old fascia board with it's legacy of felt nail holes.

A friend had given me a length of damp course (thanks, Tom) that proved to be a couple of inches longer than the shed roof but was 12" wide so I decided to cut it in two down the middle.  I could have cut it down the middle with scissors but it's black and my trusty Sharpies wouldn't show up too well.  I'd just received some new blades for the bandsaw and wanted to try them out so I decided to combine the two tasks.

Here's a picture of the tightly rolled damp course and the band saw:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing008_zps33e9e4ba.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing008_zps33e9e4ba.jpg.html)

Here's another:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing009_zps52781c30.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing009_zps52781c30.jpg.html)

Here's the result:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing010_zps3f22e3fc.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing010_zps3f22e3fc.jpg.html)

I hadn't set up the band saw blade as well as I ought so one cut edge was a bit fringy so I had to use the scissors on it after all.

The next stage was to feed the lengths of damp course up behind the lower edges of the steel flashing and secure them with some more of the 'self-drilling' screws and caps.  That was accomplished with a bit of help from my lovely but shy assistant.  Here's the result:

Lower edge:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageFlashingampTrim001c_zps8a8e510c.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageFlashingampTrim001c_zps8a8e510c.jpg.html)

and the upper edge:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageFlashingampTrim003_zps695cdd3a.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageFlashingampTrim003_zps695cdd3a.jpg.html)

I still have to trim the ends of the damp course.  I've deliberately left the lower edges of the damp course unsecured so I can fold them up and get at the wooden fascias with a paint brush and wood preservative when needed.

Now to decide how to finish off the end of the roof over the door.   :scratch:   :scratch:   :scratch:   :scratch:   :scratch:   :scratch: 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on December 28, 2013, 11:20:36 AM
Hi Pete,

About time you moved your capitial equipment back in I reckon, it's looking good  :thumbup: Have you chosen the wallpaper yet  :lol:

Yes our floods have receded - just a few puddles left. Since I had the stream and ditches dug out about three years ago the floods rarely stay longer than a day these days. Amazing the sheer volume of water that comes our way, then eventually exits to the sea at Rye Harbour. Mind you they are threatening another downpour in a few days, maybe that'll wash the remaining dirty sheep. Some came out quite clean after the last downpour  :ddb:

... the Myford - put it on ebay rather than scrap it - it may help someone out with spares at least.

Andrew
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on December 28, 2013, 02:40:45 PM
Hi there, Andrew,

Thank you for your continuing interest.

I hope that you have had or are still having an enjoyable Christmas.  I've put on almost six pounds (that's avoirdupois) since last Sunday!!  Who'd have thought a couple of mince pies and an individual Christmas pud would contain so many calories?   :D   :D   :D 

I'm glad your floods have subsided.  I think a lot of the trouble is hard-paved car standings and driveways - they just shoot the water down the drain and result in flash floods. 
When I built our 'parking pad' on part of our front garden, I opted for a concrete-less construction with a rammed earth base and load-bearing plastic grids so the rain can still soak in to our sandy subsoil.   :thumbup:   :thumbup:   :thumbup: 

No wallpaper in the shed - there's not enough clear wall area for wallpaper.  J&L/MSC sent me a nice wall-chart of drill sizes, drilling & tapping info etc. but I don't even have room for that!  A couple of years ago, one of my neighbours was boasting that his shed had carpet - I said 'that's nice, mine's only got double glazing.'.

Our closest neighbours both sides are golf enthusiasts - I do get a few twitchy moments when they practice in the back garden!   :ddb:   :ddb:   :ddb: 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on January 08, 2014, 04:54:09 PM
Hi there, all,

I see from the viewing figures that this thread is still getting visits - thank you all for your interest.

I've been a bit held up by the weather - the outstanding finishing touches require that I rip down a couple of bits of wood and they're too long to do under cover.  After all the recent rain the lawn is too soft and boggy to support the table saw.  Still, the weather forecast hints at a few dry days ahead.

The good news is that I've been doing some work INSIDE the big shed.  I hope to launch a new thread describing that soon.

I have to report that when it rains the new tin roof is much noisier than the old felted roof!
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Rob.Wilson on January 12, 2014, 04:28:11 AM
Now thats a cracking  shed Pete  ,


Well done  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:



Rob
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on April 06, 2014, 11:26:34 AM
Hi there, all,

Here's a bit of an :update: 

I've been able to do occasional odd jobs in the tin shed, though its roof is letting in a bit of water when we get heavy rain.  I need to apply a bit more silicone sealant to the joints between the roof sheets.

I still have a minor job to do on the outside of the big shed (if you'll let me call an 8' x 12' shed 'big'!!).  I need to fit a trim strip along one end of the roof to support the overhang of the steel roof sheets, here's the best photo I have of the overhang:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing001_zpscec5ffe6.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing001_zpscec5ffe6.jpg.html)

I have a piece of wood cut to length ready for this job but I need to machine a drip groove along its underside.  Also, as it's thicker than the overhang, I want to bevel the upper outer edge to throw off the rain.  Both these operations need me to set up the table saw on the lawn and that hasn't yet reached the top of the priority list.  Then it'll need a coat of wood preservative and some sealing strip along its upper edge before fixing in position.

Oh, and I need to straighten out a couple of dents in the edge of the roof sheet.  I think in an earlier post, I mentioned that the shed was overhung by a large willow tree at one end.  Well, I was scared that one or more of those overhanging branches might fall casualty to the fierce winds we had a few weeks ago.  So my forestry-trained step-son came along with his chain-saw and took the branches down.  There was one branch that he couldn't do in easy stages, we just had to cut the whole thing.  It landed twiggy end first which we knew would be risky - such a branch will bounce and then fall over and it's difficult, if not impossible, to predict the direction it will take.  In this case, the butt end of the branch, some 8" in diameter, just kissed the end of the shed roof as it passed.  Luckily, the steel sheet is only ½ mm thick so I expect it will be easy to straighten out the dents with my duck-bill pliers.

Other than those tasks, I have been doing a few chores inside the shed.  The shed is lined with 6" x 1" boards and there were a few pieces that I hadn't fitted properly back in 2004/2005 when the shed was re-assembled on its present site.  There was a pressing need back then to get the shed's contents moved in.  I also have had a few ideas to improve that lining.  So I've been cutting (I can cross-cut under cover - it's ripping that needs the saw out in the open air) and painting bits of 6" x 1" and screwing them into position. 
That needed lots of stuff moving out of the way to give me access!   :bang:   :bang:   :bang: 
I also need to tidy up the electrics a bit. 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Stilldrillin on April 06, 2014, 02:36:17 PM
Nice to see, you're still progressing Pete!  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on April 06, 2014, 03:21:24 PM
As David says, nice to see you are still progressing !

I did actually get into my workshop TWICE today  :ddb: Once to get the pig wormer, and once to get more castration rings for the lambs  :lol:

Still only five more left to drop and perhaps the 5:30 getting up's can slip to a more civilised hour  :clap:

Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on April 06, 2014, 05:15:09 PM
Hi there, David D and Andrew,

Thank you both for your encouragement.   :nrocks:   :nrocks:   :nrocks: 

Andrew, how is your new dog getting on? 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on April 06, 2014, 05:36:38 PM
Living up to his name - Hugo is going to be huge !

Need to correct an obsession with sheep poo which he thinks of as a delicacy
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on April 06, 2014, 06:14:53 PM
Hi there, Andrew,

Living up to his name - Hugo is going to be huge !

Need to correct an obsession with sheep poo which he thinks of as a delicacy

Our previous German Shepherd loved to roll in delicacies such as fox poo!  She could detect the smallest deposit from great range.  If ever that stuff had acquired a commercial value, she'd have made us a fortune.  Dead and well-rotted rabbit seemed to be her second favourite.  Prevention was difficult but a generous handful of live yoghourt, well rubbed into the coat and then washed out, was the best cure we ever found. 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on April 21, 2014, 07:15:28 AM
Hi there, all,

 :update:   :update:   :update: 

I've been away from this project for some weeks, due to other priorities.  This post is really to round off the thread.

We recently managed to get the table saw set up on the 'grass' and rip a 45° chamfer on one corner of a length of 3" x 1" and another on the diagonally opposite corner.  I'd previously cross-cut the board to length.  This length of board was to be the trim-strip or fascia to support the overhanging edge of the end steel roof-sheet.  See this photo:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing001_zpscec5ffe6.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageRoofSheetsampFlashing001_zpscec5ffe6.jpg.html)

The first chamfer put a slope on the part of the board that would extend from under the roof-sheet, while the second was to act as a drip to throw off any rain-water running down the outer face.  After applying a couple of coats of Duck's Back and letting them dry, then marking-out and drilling the screw holes, I applied a length of butyl sealing strip to the upper edge of the board.  We then offered up the board and fixed it in place. 
It now looks like this:

(http://i1342.photobucket.com/albums/o770/Pete_W73/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageShedRoofLastPiece_zps8863cc55.jpg) (http://s1342.photobucket.com/user/Pete_W73/media/Tin%20Shed%20Project/Big%20Shed%20Roof/ImageShedRoofLastPiece_zps8863cc55.jpg.html)

All very simple, even too trivial to mention, one might say.  But, this operation was a milestone, it's the last stage of the re-roofing project.   :clap:   :clap:   :clap: 

As you can see from my thread on the ML7 Quick-Change Gear-Box, I've started to do some work IN the shed.  I'm already noticing the benefit of the improved roof insulation and I anticipate that I shall be able to work in the shed more often in the extremes of winter cold and summer heat. 
I just have to get used to the sound of the rain on the steel sheets.   :lol:   :lol:   :lol:  Goodness knows what the noise of hailstones will be like! 
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: awemawson on April 21, 2014, 08:22:56 AM
 :ddb: :ddb: I'm looking forward to the topping out ceremony and workshop warming party  :ddb: :ddb:
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: DavidA on April 22, 2014, 10:19:24 AM
Pete,

Where did you get your roof panels from ?  I really could do with re-roofing my big shed.

I spent Saturday, Sunday and Monday doing some major rebuilding,  mostly cutting out old wood and making new. As I go back to work tomorrow I was looking forward to finishing it off today.  But last night I had a couple of deep fried chicken legs and spent the time between two and three AM with my head down the toilet.  Today I feel much better,  but still a bit shaky.
However, as I only work mornings I can get back in harness in the afternoons. The walls of my shed are packed with glass fibre  insulation so it is nice and warm once the pot belly gets going.

Nice roof,  by the way.

Dave :thumbup:
Title: Re: Pete W's Tin Shed Project.
Post by: Pete W. on April 22, 2014, 11:37:19 AM
Hi there, David,

Thank you for your post.  I hope that you soon feel better!

Regarding the roof sheets, if you go on to eBay and do a search for, e.g., 'corrugated steel roof sheets' you'll get a good number of hits.  They usually offer a choice of 'wavy' corrugations or box-section and also a choice of colours.

Several of those listers also supply 'outside' eBay so it's worth checking how prices vary.  Also, for a small quantity, shipping is a big proportion of the total price so it's worth checking where each potential supplier is in relation to your own location.  If you're offered an 'all-in' package price (including roof sheets, flashing, fixings, sealing strip and shipping) do the sums to check how that compares to the listed prices for each item separately.

My supplier cut my sheets to my specified length - I had to pay extra for that.