MadModder
The Breakroom => The Water Cooler => Topic started by: DavidA on May 03, 2015, 10:48:31 AM
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Just wondered how many of us run Diesel cars ?
I do, Most recent is a Peugeot 206 HDi. Haven't run a petrol car for years, 2006 to be exact.
And, those who do, how many make their own biodiesel ?
Dave.
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Had a diesel from 2006.....
Mondeo 2.0 diesel Titanium estate, a Vauxhall Insignia 2.0 Diesel Ecoflex Estate, ( had that 4 months from new....pos :coffee:) Mondeo 2.0 diesel Zetec estate, currently running a 13 plate VW Passat 2.0 diesel estate....
Can't use bio, car under warranty.....
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I have always ran diesels, well for about 40 yrs. Present is a corsa van, turbo. last year my wifes car, diesel and nearly new, had some expensive repairs , I could not do myself, sensors etc. So her new one is a small petrol engine. I reckon the running costs are maybe less than the diesel. I won't be buying another small diesel, just not worth the bother. If and when I have another old landy then it will be different. I have made bio-diesel but only on a small scale as an experiment, reacting the veg. oil with soda. It works fine in basic motors eg. old tractor. I would check very carefully before use in a modern car with all the sensors etc., also some seals etc. react badly. Great for cleaning tho.!
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Been on Diesels from about 1984,
Historically 7 trucks and 6 cars, with the exception of two early ones, Sherpa diesels, all have or are on Peugeot engines.
Current drives are Fiat Ducatto, five years old 72,000 on the clock and a Peugeot 308 estate on 61 plate so just over 3 years old with 91,000 on the clock.
No bio diesel, don't have time or want the mess involved, these vehicles earn far more working than any saving made by using home made diesel.
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Every vehicle I own is diesel. After all back in the 1990's we were positively encouraged to use diesel by the government as more diesel can be squeezed out of crude oil per barrel than the higher octanes like petrol.
Only petrol consumers that I have are chain saws, a small generator and a cement mixer - not counting the numerous lawn mowers and motorised scythes.
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Hi there, all,
A few months ago I received an email from the RAC. Basically their message was that they now have an on-line version of Glass's Guide and would I like to try it?
So I went to the web page and entered my registration number. It told me (correctly) that my (our) car is an X-reg (2000) Citroen Xantia turbo diesel estate.
The web-site then prompted me to enter my mileage, so I keyed in 216,500. (It's currently almost 218,000.)
The web-site thought for a moment and then asserted that, if it were in showroom condition, our car value/price would be £114.
If, on the other hand, it were in average condition, its value/price would be, wait for it, £1 !!! :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
It's also worth £1 if it's in 'poor' condition!
My first diesel car was a Citroen Bx diesel hatchback, bought in 1987, the only car I've ever owned from new. That had to go when I was made redundant. By 1997 my fortunes had recovered enough for me to buy a used Ford Escort diesel estate.
That was followed soon after 2000 by a used Peugeot 405 diesel estate. That soon got tired (sunshine roof problems among others) so we bought a low-ish mileage Citroen Bx diesel estate.
I got deceived by a bad water leak on that one and the engine blew up - I'm very embarrassed about that! :doh: :doh: :doh:
Then, in about 2005/6 we bought the Xantia, at that time it had about 160,000-ish miles on the clock.
My understanding has always been that in a petrol engine to get the ignition flame to fill the combustion chamber, the fuel/air mixture has to be inefficiently rich. Whereas, with a diesel, the spray of finely atomised fuel is injected into air that is ALL already hotter than the flash-point so the fuel has no choice but to burn! All of it!!
But in recent years, the private motorist has been pilloried on grounds of 'particulate emissions'. I've bicycled in heavy rush hour traffic and been stuck at traffic-lights behind a bus with a belching 4" exhaust! I've also heard tales of trucks being tweaked to get them through the MOT emissions test and then un-tweaked once the pass-certificate is in-hand! So I have my own suspicions as to whose particulate emissions predominate. When I was sent on a value engineering course many years ago, we were taught the slogan 'Hit the high cost areas first!'. But in politics, it's 'aim for the soft targets!'
(/rant) :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
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Been using sludge-gulpers since 1992.
First being a Ford Orion ( Company car, absolute junk. )
Then a Vauxhall Astra, another company car, did 93,000 faultless.
VW Passat Estate, mine.
VW Golf Estate, mine again.
Vauxhall Astra 1.7TD Estate, just gone.
Now have a new Subaru Forester, 2.0D XC.
Do use petrol in my Mantis cultivator though ... and have a gas fag-lighter ... :thumbup:
and a Sievert Propane torch ....
Dave
EDIT 'Fag-Lighter ' as in the UK version ie. Cigarette Lighter. Not anything else that may spring to the mind of any North Americans ... :palm:
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Pete w,
I've had two Bxs. Liked them both. only problem was the nightmare hydraulic suspension. It can be a potential killer. I still have a set of front to rear hydraulic pipes in their original Citroen packages. If you hear of anyone needing a set let me know.
I've always had Diesel cars with some derivative of the Peugeot XUD engine. I have found them pretty bullet proof, EXCEPT if you get a water leak.
They have always run well for me on home made biodiesel. And making it isn't so messy if you're careful. The savings can be quite substantial. As the fuel prices are going back up again I am considering getting back in the game.
But there is a problem. The 206 is a common rail engine. And I understand that common rail engines need VERY clean fuel.
So I will have to save my bio for the old Citroen. That one isn't nearly as fussy.
The 206 is a three door anyway. So I won't be keeping it long. Only bought it because it was going to be scrapped while it still had six months test on it.
Dave.
Just found this. Had to pass it on; it's classic.
Remember, if you have more than one geek in a room, it's classed as too many.
http://www.206info.co.uk/Forums/viewtopic/printertopic=1/t=14304/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=0.html
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I have had diesels for years Currently have a VW T5 with 100,000 miles Toyota landcruiser 250.000 mile so just about run in and unimog 1300l with 3000 hours on the clock .I used to run a old peugeot in france on a mixture or rape seed oil brought from a local farmer in 205 litre drums and diesel worked ok but smelt like a chip shop. I dont think I would run a modern common rail engine on anything except the correct fuel far too many sensors and particle filters to go wrong. Mike
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We've had three diesel Skoda Octavias thus far; dropped the first two after 100,000+ miles as minor niggles started to show up (never with the mill). The latest is an all electric everything model, auto box, and gives around 55 to the gallon overall. Chuffed. When we chopped in the last one the guy gave us quite a fair price for it; he has a contact in Brum who buys clean and tidy high mileage diesels and sells them to the Pakistani / Indian taxi boys. It went off his books in 24 hours!
My mate Simon is yer actual Range Rover hot shot mechanic, really knows his stuff and is in high demand. One of his clients in the Black Country is the owner of a string of Chinese restaurants who passes him all the used cooking oil by way of a gift. He's got his own Disco running on it as sweet as a nut, but with what industrial chemists refer to as a "characteristic odour". Every time he turns up on shooting days it's "Two chicken chow miens and a special flied lice please!"
We also have a petrol 4WD Subaru Forester for getting around the hills in the winter and transporting gundogs in soggy places; does 28 -30 mpg on a good day. Not so b******g chuffed, but the Skodas would get stuck on a damp cricket pitch, so needs must.
Eug
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I'm on my first diesel - a Focus Titanium Estate 1.6 TDCI which replaced a petrol Focus 2.0 I Ghia estate.
On a 150 mile round trip to Lancaster I get around 65 mpg. Even towing our touring caravan I get 37mpg. This is around 50% more than I got with the petrol engined version.
The other benefit is the Road tax (sorry - Vehicle Excise Duty) which is only £20 a year compared with around £240.
I'm a happy bunny and I won't be trying used chip oil in it.
Phil.
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If you are using a basic agricultural diesel engine with no frills then I don't think there much risk running biodiesel. However a modern diesel made to closer tolerances and certainly 'common rail' engines it's a risk not worth the benefit. Bio can gum up rings and injectors. Considering the cost of repairs to modern engines why risk it.
My son has just had a fuel issue with his 2006 Range Rover Vogue TD V8 - apparently needs a new injector pump, two turbos and the catalytic converter. Repair bill estimated at £8000 :bugeye: And that's running on pump diesel :bang:
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Phil,
..The other benefit is the Road tax (sorry - Vehicle Excise Duty) which is only £20 a year compared with around £240...
£20 per year. :bugeye:
How did you manage that ? My 1.5 Citroen Saxo Diesel cost, if I remember, £146.
(I'll check on that and come back if wrong.)
Dave.
edit £145 per year.
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Andrew,
As the turbos are only air pumps I don't think their demise will be related to what kind of fuel is used.
As for bio use. A lot depends upon whether you are actually using proper biodiesel (a methyl ester derived from veg oil) or what some companies sell as biodiesel but is really a blend of veg oil and some additive.
And if an 'agricultural' engine will run happily on bio whist returning virtually the same fuel figures for much less than half the cost of DERV, why change to an all singing/dancing electronic version just to get another 5 mpg ?
My Citroens always pass the emissions test well within the limits on 50/50 bio.
Dave
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Been using oil burners since early '80's (Toyota landcruisers) and now have 2 Mercedes W123 oilers and nice to drive as well. I used to 50/50 and in summer 75/25 (veg/diesel). Now veg oil has gone up price wise I just use straight diesel again.
Pete
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Phil,
..The other benefit is the Road tax (sorry - Vehicle Excise Duty) which is only £20 a year compared with around £240...
£20 per year. :bugeye:
How did you manage that ? My 1.5 Citroen Saxo Diesel cost, if I remember, £146.
(I'll check on that and come back if wrong.)
Dave.
edit £145 per year.
Dave:
(http://listerengine.com/coppermine/albums/userpics/10017/VED_zpskj7mpn6b.jpg)
I've just checked what it would have been for my previous car - £290!
Online calculator: https://www.gov.uk/calculate-vehicle-tax-rates (https://www.gov.uk/calculate-vehicle-tax-rates)
Phil.
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It is wise to have the injection pump fitted with Viton seals if using bio-diesel.
My peugeot runs true B 100 bio-diesel most of the time and it required the seals in the pump changing over from Nitrile to Viton last summer after a seal failed.
Also fuel hoses should be checked for compatibility and changed to a bio proof version if needs be....OZ.
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My Mercedes B class has zero road tax!
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2913674/Council-charge-diesel-car-drivers-extra-100-park-outside-homes.html
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Phil,
I ran my Saxo through the same process. I did it do first registered in 2001, and it's true first register year of 2000.
And got.
Vehicle
CITROEN Saxo Saxo 1.5 D, M5
12 month cost
£130.00
Monthly cost: £11.38 – total: £136.50
6 month cost
£71.50
or £68.25 if renewing automatically by Direct Debit
Date of first registration
9/2001
Tax band
E
Engine capacity (cc)
1527
Transmission
Manual
Fuel type
Diesel
CO2
138
Euro standard
3
Tax class
49
That huge difference in cost is down to 34 PPM of particulates.
The annoying thing is that my car doesn't have this particulate emission when it is on bio. But that doesn't count.
I should add it was taxed last July, before the change in the regulations. That would explain the discrepancy between £145 that I payed and £130 as in the list.
But I would brace yourself for a big hike in motoring cost if Cameron gets back in. He has promised not to raise so many things that motorists will look even more inviting.
Dave
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MODENG,
But what year is it ?
Dave.
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2913674/Council-charge-diesel-car-drivers-extra-100-park-outside-homes.html
Which numpty has dreamt this one up?
Cars parked outside homes don't create air pollution - it's only when you drive them.
A quote from the article: "Taxi drivers, plumbers, builders, and anyone who uses their vehicle in their business will be exempt from paying the tax"
So those who do huge mileages (and are possibly more likely to have the emissions tweaked before and after an MOT) are exempt?
Wonderful.
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Yeah,
All the above, except taxis, work through the day and park up at night. Those who only use the car to go to work then park up get to pay to park at night at home. Those who run around all day don't.
Must be a London thing.
Dave
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From a recent report:
Carmakers Braced For European Crackdown on Diesel Vehicles
The French government, which owns about 15 per cent of carmakers Renault and PSA Peugeot Citroën, has pledged to “progressively” ban from 2015 diesel vehicles — which account for two- thirds of car sales in the country and almost two-thirds of Renault and Peugeot’s European sales.The November announcement by Prime Minister Manuel Valls — in which he admitted the promotion of diesel cars had been a “mistake” — was followed last month by a promise from Paris mayor Anne Hidalgo to ban these vehicles from the city by 2020.
France’s stance highlights a big shift taking place in the European debate over vehicle pollution. For a decade or more, policy makers have focused on targets to reduce carbon dioxide emissions, and this prompted carmakers to invest heavily in diesel vehicles because they emit less CO2 than the petrol equivalents.
But now the focus is turning to air quality, which raises far-reaching questions about the viability of diesel vehicles. This is because they emit harmful pollutants such as nitrogen oxide that can cause serious respiratory problems.
Cities are under pressure from the European Commission to tackle pollution. Studies from the International Council on Clean Transportation, a research body, and King’s College, part of the University of London, have highlighted the scale of emissions from diesel vehicles and linked them to as many as 60,000 deaths a year in the UK.
London has vowed to act on these findings. Under plans for an “ultra low emission zone” in the city, the capital’s traffic congestion charge would be almost doubled for older diesel vehicles by the end of the decade, and Islington council is set to introduce a parking fee for the most-polluting cars — “to encourage a move away from diesel vehicles”. (See below)
Cities in Norway have discussed similar anti-diesel measures.
Shadow Environment Minister: We Messed up Switching Motorists to Diesel
Attempts made by the previous Labour government in the U.K. to get millions of people to switch from petrol cars to diesel vehicles in order to "save" the planet was a mistake, Barry Gardiner, shadow Environment Minister has admitted. "Hands up - there's absolutely no question that the decision we took was the wrong decision. But at that time we didn't have the evidence that subsequently we did have," Gardiner said during an episode of Channel Four's Dispatches, called "The Great Car Con."
At least ten million Britons are driving diesel cars, a trend which was encouraged by tax breaks by Gordon Brown back when he was Chancellor of the Exchequer. Brown said back in 1998 that diesel vehicles will attract less vehicle tax than petrol options due to their "better CO2 performance." Brown reduced vehicle tax for all vehicles with low CO2 emissions in 2001, giving company car buyers, responsible for half of new purchases, a reason to make the switch.
The policy was a response to the 1997 Kyoto treaty, which was created to cut greenhouse gases. "It was right to move away from vehicles that push out CO2, but the impact is a massive public health problem," said Gardiner. "The real tragedy is after we set up the committee on the medical effects of air pollution and it reported back in 2010 we've had five years that this government has done nothing about it."
Government ministers were warned more than 20 years ago of the risks, according to Professor Roy Harrison, professor of environmental health at the University of Birmingham. "I chaired an advisory committee in 1993 who was advising government on urban air quality issues and we recognized that there might be future problems associated with the increasing uptake of diesel passenger cars," said Harrison, according to The Independent.
The documentary will also show how drivers are exposed to higher levels of diesel pollutants than cyclists and pedestrians. "When people are in cars if they've got windows closed and the air conditioning on, they probably think that they are actually immune from the emissions from the vehicles in front of them and in reality that's not the case because the gases penetrate so easily that they will get into the cabin of the vehicle and depending on the ventilation of that cabin they may actually build up to much higher concentrations," said Professor Frank Kelly, Chair of the Committee for the Medical Effects of Air Pollution, according to The Independent.
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I was always under the impression that "road tax" was used to repair & build the roads
At least the new super low emission vehicles don't damage the road surface :Doh: :Doh: :Doh:
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Nope, It all goes into one big pot.
So, what is the shape of things to come ?
I suspect that the price of Diesel, already on the increase, will get exorbitantly high in the next five year.
If you have a diesel car then the emission tests will get tougher. New Diesels will gradually be phased out and the tax on your old one will get higher.
The glory days of fuel economy are over. Prepare to return to 35 mpg.
Bullet proof reliability, half a million miles engine life, is out, damp spark ignition systems are back in.
But if you keep your Diesel and run it on bio then you may just be able to buck the system.
Bio bootleggers will pick on their banjos whilst watching the kettles boil.
All together now...
Daddy ran his bio in a big black Dodge.
Bought it in an auction at the mason's lodge.
Dave :thumbup:
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I thought with Exhaust gas recirculation, particle filters and the use of Ad blu was going to make Euro 5 and 6 series engines less polluting than petrol engines ,or is this going to be another excuse to make us pay even more tax .Mike
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Mike,
The latter. It always works that way. :(
Moving the topic on.
Anyone for electric cars ?
Or the half way house of petrol/electric hybrids. Prius etc ?
Anybody got one ?
Dave.
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Not got one but had a test drive in a Mitzi Outlander PHEV ....
Cannot see what that things all about, battery range some 18-20 miles ... then back to petrol ???
WTF ?????
No wonder there is/was a £5000 bribe to buy one of the contraptions.
£50k and I might have been tempted ... :wave:
Dave
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I have to scoff slightly at electric cars, great as cheap to run but the electricity still has to be made somewhere down the line, and it still cost the environment. I'm sure we are all aware by now the need to produce clean energy argument, yadda yadda yadda so no debate there. But clean energy is not everywhere yet so green electric cars are still not really green until all the electrickery in the first place is green....right? or wrong? Just fed up of governments playing green poker. Same with tax on cigarettes is the same on oil. Until it all stops we are still dicking around in a babbling brook and governments grabbing as much tax as they can until the bitter end.........greasy palms and all that
I will now get off my soapbox, put down the wine glass and go to bed...sigh!
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Nope, It all goes into one big pot.
So, what is the shape of things to come ?
I suspect that the price of Diesel, already on the increase, will get exorbitantly high in the next five year.
If you have a diesel car then the emission tests will get tougher. New Diesels will gradually be phased out and the tax on your old one will get higher.
The glory days of fuel economy are over. Prepare to return to 35 mpg.
Bullet proof reliability, half a million miles engine life, is out, damp spark ignition systems are back in.
But if you keep your Diesel and run it on bio then you may just be able to buck the system.
Bio bootleggers will pick on their banjos whilst watching the kettles boil.
All together now...
Daddy ran his bio in a big black Dodge.
Bought it in an auction at the mason's lodge.
Dave :thumbup:
You could smell the bio burnin' down on chip shop road :)
Great tune,Steve Earle's finest creation......OZ.
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Mike,
The latter. It always works that way. :(
Moving the topic on.
Anyone for electric cars ?
Or the half way house of petrol/electric hybrids. Prius etc ?
Anybody got one ?
Dave.
Only ever been a passenger in a Prius but i've never experienced motion sickness like it. I'm not sure if it was just the odd feeling of the almost silent engine and the unusually high dashboard. I think I heard that newer hybrids play engine sounds through a speaker so it's less weird.
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MODENG,
But what year is it ?
Dave.
2014 I can't afford to run an old one :scratch:
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Hi there, Swarfing,
SNIP ....... and it still cost the environment. I'm sure we are all aware by now the need to produce clean energy argument, yadda yadda yadda so no debate there.
SNIP ....... and governments grabbing as much tax as they can until the bitter end.........greasy palms and all that
I will now get off my soapbox, put down the wine glass and go to bed...sigh!
For an interesting perspective on this subject, I suggest you read a book called 'Not For Greens' by Ian Plimer. (He's a professor of geology.) That one's a paperback. If you can afford a bit more time, he also wrote a more substantial book called 'Heaven and Earth'.
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Pete
I'm assuming the reading is regarding the affects on the earth? I have no argument there just false claims from governments about being green when they only have one foot in scenario. The point I was making is we cannot have our cake and eat it. Just feel they should be honest about all this, we are either green or not? I love petrol/ diesel cars just not at the expense of my kids future, if they have one? too much red tape and economics (taxes) play far too much in the equation and hold people back from striving for a greener future.
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http://www.environmentalhealthnews.org/ehs/newscience/2013/11/diesel-lung-cancer-deaths/
There are other reports that say modern Die sel cars are safer but you'd have to be stupid not to realise that thick black smoke that comes out of the back of Diesel cars isn't extremely toxic.
What's more important, slightly cheaper motoring or preventing hundreds of thousands of needless deaths each year?
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My diesel is Euro6 and there is no black smoke from it, in fact there is no discernible smell at idling.
Why pick on cars?
Diesel engines power trucks, buses, trains, agricultural vehicles, ships and loads of other stuff.
Assuming the diesel car was banned, and we went electric, just where do you think the replacement electrical energy would come from? Bearing in mind the UK power generation is pretty much on the edge with insufficient reserve even now.
Next door has a wood-burner stove, now that does stink. Maybe they should be required by law to be fitted with a cat. and a PF ??
EOR
Dave
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Arbalist,
... but you'd have to be stupid not to realise that thick black smoke that comes out of the back of Diesel cars isn't extremely toxic...
I'm a bit puzzled by this. Non of my Diesel cars ever give out noticeable smoke, let alone smoke of the thick black variety. The only exception is if one boots the accelerator down on the turbo Diesel. Then it will smoke as it is running very rich because the turbo hasn't been allowed to catch up with the engine. But you don't do this in normal operation.
Any diesel will smoke if the injectors are knackered (or the fuel pump), but otherwise they are no more smokey than petrol engines.
I also have my doubts about electric cars. The figures quoted by manufacturers seem to apply to flat roads. Not the kind of roads we have in West Yorkshire.
And what about heating and de-frosting, lights etc. Are they used during the tests?
You never see the sort of performance figures that are useful to people of an inquiring nature. And how do you manage if you have to park your car outside your home ?
Green power generation is another subject, but it certainly ties in with the push for green cars.
Dave.
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Thought I'd throw in this precautionary tale.
I bought my 206 in the middle of April (this year) and before I did so I ran a check on it to see if it was tested as quoted. It was. This check also informed me that it was taxed until September.
The more knowledgeable amongst you will know what's coming.
The car came from a relation. I remember saying to my wife 'Debbie has slipped up. There is still half a years tax on the car.'.
Then, I found out about the latest government rip off.
In case anyone doesn't know, when you transfer ownership of a car the tax ceases to be in effect and you are reimbursed for part of the outstanding balance. The new owner has to re tax it.
So where is the rip off ?
well, they only work in whole months So if I bought the car on, say, the 2nd of the month I would lose the rest of the month. The seller also loses that period. The new owner would have to re tax it starting at the beginning of the month (as usual) so the Government gets paid twice for that month.
I'm wiser and poorer now.
Dave.
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I never said you guys had to like it. You will have to get used to it though. Every day I end up behind one car or van that's pumping out black smoke so I guess there must be thousands of vehicles out there with knackered injectors? I fail to see how anyone that drives a car or other vehicle "knows" what's coming out on a daily basis, a quick look in the rear view mirror doesn't really cut it. For the time being petrol is cleaner until something better replaces it.
As for silly comments like boats etc, they don't drive through town centres do they? :lol:
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...For the time being petrol is cleaner until something better replaces it...
LPG perhaps ?
Dave
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Could be Dave, I don't know much about LPG. Quentin Wilson thoroughly reccomended the 4 Litre Jeep many years ago but suggested the LPG conversion for it to reduce running costs.
I also remember reading that Henry Ford always envisioned that cars would run on Ethanol not Gasoline. I guess we burn what we've got until we find something better.
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why not good old fashioned wood gas with big balloons on top of the car :palm:
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AdBlue :coffee:
Rob
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I never get diesel cars... they sound awful, they drive badly with gear shifts every half a second, they emit so much crap they actually seem to make themselves dirty, and they have more parts to go wrong on them.
Rather pay the extra money for the smooth running of a petrol engine. I'm always confused when you see a £40k+ BMW or Audi and it's a diesel... if you can afford to pay that much surely the difference in fuel cost for the benefits of a petrol engine would be easy!
The cost for replacing glow plugs and dual mass flywheels etc on modern diesels is ridiculous.
Plus if you're a man who likes driving, there's a pleasure to be had from a decent petrol engine, my last car had an 8000rpm limit and was smooth as a peach. It was also running nearly 30psi of boost :clap:
I'm fortunate in that I'm now running a 6.3 AMG V8 which is about as far from a diesel as you can get, and I bloody love it :thumbup:
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Diesels drive badly and need gear shifts every half second? The diesels I've owned all have had a very broad spread of torque so no need changing gears quickly.....OZ
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Not sure where you are in the world Loply but a relative on the wife's side in Canada was showing off his wife's new Grand Cherokee to me the last time we visited. He popped the bonnet and that big Vee was running as smooth as silk. No idea what they're like but I was taken with the Dodge Ram 1500, bit too big for English roads though...
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I never get diesel cars... they sound awful, they drive badly with gear shifts every half a second, they emit so much crap they actually seem to make themselves dirty
I'm fortunate in that I'm now running a 6.3 AMG V8 which is about as far from a diesel as you can get, and I bloody love it :thumbup:
They make themselves dirty well I run a oil burning BMW and it never gets the back end grubby even the tail pipe is clean it's the one with the soot filter
And to even think about comparing a AMG V8 6.3 is not a fair comparison IMHO yes I would run one if it did not drink petrol although I would still go for a BMW after the worst new car we ever had was a merc heap of junk but again not a AMG ,engine packed in after six weeks and it went down hill from there we the last straw complete engine failure in the outside lane of the M1 , so it was back to the beamers
Just my take on it no offence intended to any poster
Stuart
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Diesels drive badly and need gear shifts every half second? The diesels I've owned all have had a very broad spread of torque so no need changing gears quickly.....OZ
Mmmmm let me see? My diesel has 3 gears (automatic), will pull a train and keep torque in all gears, will do over 500,000 miles (if serviced regularly). The point about RPM well in a diesel you can get the same POWER for a lot less RPM. Life is not always about speed, things just wear out quicker.
OZ you are comparing apples and pears, it is speed or need not need for speed :beer:
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Loply,
.. if you can afford to pay that much surely the difference in fuel cost for the benefits of a petrol engine would be easy!..
If you don't mind burning off than your share of the worlds energy supply just because you have the money, then I can see your point.
I could never see why people need huge engines when one a third the size is adequate.
You must have some very bad Diesels in you part of the world.
Dave
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Even my oldest tractor (1974) only smokes when pulling VERY hard - and left out in the cold and wet for months it always starts. No petrol engine would do that reliably.
Modern diesel engines - say post 1995 and not just the latest common rail ones - actually perform very well on the road. I think a lot of the prejudice against them is from people who haven't actually driven one recently - diesel cars no longer rattle like a London Taxi !
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Loply,
...The cost for replacing glow plugs and dual mass flywheels etc on modern diesels is ridiculous...
What's a mass flywheel, and why would you need to replace them ?
I have found that glow plugs tend to last about five years. Much longer than spark plugs.
If I could have my choice of car, at the moment it would be a Jaguar. The one with the twin turbo Ford Diesel engine, Luxury and economy.
But I'd settle for a 1980s Mercedes 300D with the five cylinder Diesel. They run on anything.
Dave.
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David:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual_mass_flywheel
As I mentioned earlier a guy on another forum had a quote to replace the clutch on his Diesel Ford Focus of over £1100.
Replacement of soot filter on a VW was quoted at over £1000 some time back.
Diesel engines are heavier so tyres also wear quicker on FWD cars.
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Arbalist, clutches on petrol engines also wear out and need replacing just the same as diesels,and the cost is going to be pretty much the same.
The claim that they wear tyres out quicker is somewhat doubtful,in my honest opinion......OZ.
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Arbalist, clutches on petrol engines also wear out and need replacing just the same as diesels,and the cost is going to be pretty much the same.
No it's not. Most petrol engined cars do not have Dual Mass Flywheels because they vibrate less.
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Clutch and DMF for a 2.0T petrol Vectra - £850 fitted. Mechanic recons the TD version would be pretty much the same price.
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I only know about Vauxhalls but the larger petrol engines (2.0T, 2.2 and 3.2) have DMFs. I think the 1.8 might be a solid disk. Of the £850, £250 was labour and the other £600 parts (clutch, DMF, thrust assembly and gearbox oil)
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I will concede the dual mass flywheel issue to Arbalist :thumbup:
My 2001 Discovery TD5 needed a new clutch, and the dmf springs were wonky - local independent fellow suggested an aftermarket non dmf as the price was so high for the L/R part, but it shook all over the place. Ended up getting him to put the proper DMF in :bugeye:
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I only found out about DMF's a couple of weeks ago. They weren't around when I was a Mechanic. You can buy conversion kits to go back to the old style but they aren't reccomended for some cars. The sad thing is they are also on some petrol cars, mainly German I believe. I think I read that ford are going back to the old style on some models. I'm just glad I don't have one on my car. I'm also wary of Turbo chargers as well as they cost a lot to replace, £4000 I read recently on a Range Rover!
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Yes, things are getting unnecessarily complicated.
I've never come across these flywheels. Probably never will now. I do know of Torsional Vibration Dampers as fitted to the front of Diesel crankshaft.
Although my newly acquired 206 has a turbo I share your worries about it failing. In fact I'm going to get rid of the car as soon as practical, probably close to the end of the month so I don't lose too much tax.
The engine runs very well. In fact I may take it out of the car and scrap the bodywork. Put the engine in my BMW. I can do it that way as I can always revert to either a non turbo Diesel or back to the original 1.8 Petrol engine if the turbo fails.
The main reason for getting rid is that it is a two door.
My daughter (a big lass and a bonny lass as DB might say) hates having to climb in via the front.
Straight non turbo, non electronic Diesels for me. i.e. back to my Saxo.
Dave.
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Loply,
But I'd settle for a 1980s Mercedes 300D with the five cylinder Diesel. They run on anything.
Dave.
A man with good sense. I have 2 W123 5 cylinder mercs, A 300TD and a 300D both of which still drive like a limo should and average 30mpg at 100kph. Towing my teardrop camper with the 300TD from Brisbane Qld to Pt Augusta recently I averaged 30mpg while sitting on the highway speed of approx. 70mph (110 kph) without a problem and needing the a/c all the way. Try that with your petrol cars of the same size and weight. The best part is the cost of the 2 vehicles was 1 carton of Coopers sparkling ale, a locally brewed drop :D and they will most likely see out my driving days
Pete
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Pete,
..The best part is the cost of the 2 vehicles was 1 carton of Coopers sparkling ale, a locally brewed drop..
Not even Fosters ! You did well.
Dave :beer:
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I'm converted , we do need something cleaner than the diesel engine.
Maybe this:
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Nah, clean steam engines, not old dirty ones like those (except for the occasional spectacle).
But not in vehicles, either. At least not in our winters here! :lol: :lol:
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I want to try that this year!
http://www.absteamtrain.com/
Of course I'd probably start off with these :D they are about 1/2 hour from us.
http://www.ironhorsepark.net/index.shtml
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Pete,
..The best part is the cost of the 2 vehicles was 1 carton of Coopers sparkling ale, a locally brewed drop..
Not even Fosters ! You did well.
Dave :beer:
Fosters is only brewed for export and those that don't know what beer is. Coopers is very popular here and its currency for a lot of stuff here. A fair bit stuff is costed by slabs of beer. saves cash :ddb:
Pete
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I'm converted , we do need something cleaner than the diesel engine.
Maybe this:
How the jings do they see to drive safely, especially when they were first pulling off? - they could almost do with guidance like an aircraft pushback!
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Well we know now, "up to 40 times the pollutants advertised"
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/09/22/business/the-wrath-of-volkswagens-drivers.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&module=first-column-region®ion=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
But probably only 20 or 30 times here in Europe. :palm:
Only VW at the moment but I expect pollutant levels are higher than expected from many other makes.
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Caught with their pants down and until caught they don’t care, it’s all too easy to apologise after the event, I would not be surprised if other brands are in the same boat. After all, all manufacturers analyse each others products and will be aware of what is going on, I bet in the end there is a moratorium a few wrists are slapped and they pick up where they left off pay a few lesser fines and carry on. The thing is at what point do you buy VW shares?
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I'd wait a bit!
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Yea I am doing LOL
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Maybe time to invest in spark plug manufacturers. :D
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Unless you need a MWB van then you are stuck with diesel?
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You get to 85 and alone and no insurer wants you and one of my diesels, a Skoda Fabia 1.6 Monte Carlo has now a £1000 insurance tag on it. What my other cars , an Audi A4 Avant 2.0S Line( a diesel) and a Mercedes 2.4 SLK ( petrol) is unbelievable. So I am buying a little 'shopping trolley' thing.
OK but the diesels ere surprisingly economical and quiet but an even newer big Kia is quieter than them.
It's impressive compared to the MGB engine that was made into a diesel and served in London taxis( apart from anything else) Things have changed out of all proportion since I passed my driving test on a Morris 8 and a blind on the rear window which said 'don't laugh, your daughter may be inside '
What is causing much of the pollution/exhaust emissions/whatever has little to do with emissions it is that UK traffic is so dense that it grinds to a halt- and grinds to a halt and smokes and simply pollutes. Again, there these seemingly endless roadworks that go on and on for- years. Somebody has just said that we should only repair the roads- 2 miles at a time-- and it will be all done-- in 500 years.
I was in London - for 3 sausage and potato mash for £32 .The traffic barely moved,, was slower than in the days of horses and cabs- which were a health hazard then. At least, my return to 'the Smoke' was less than the Pea Soup fogs that corroded buildings-- and lungs.
So until we learn to use our legs, it is not going to get any better whether VW or someone else fiddles the books or not.
I was offered a couple of llamas- my friend was sick of them because they breed and breed( or so he says)
Has anyone used them for transport, please? Answers on a Five Pound note :bow:
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Stupid thing is VW's software turned off the emission controls which improved the emissions. Maybe the governments need to be fined for enforcing gadgets and gizmo’s that make things worse. If a diesel was left to breath properly your would not need purge of filters etc that throw more crap up into the atmosphere than a coal fire?????
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Time will tell since they all copy each other how many other producers have done the same thing as VW/Audi, Skoda, VAG Group.
Depends on mileage and journeys taken as to whats better both have disadvantages.
My general travelling would be slightly in favour of diesels but if had one would have to have a petrol as well.
Diesels take longer to warm up and wont get the benefit until they have, sons lighter ex Fabia VRS took 11 miles from cold thereafter beneficial in one run ave 44mpg to my 38mpg.
Some petrol have dual mass flywheels mine has one. I am constantly checking and hearing for things and aint cheap £1200 in parts. Solid clutch conversion £600+ thereafter just simple clutch replacement quite cheap. All it is is for emissions. Friend had a Kia 4WD thing 66k dual mass packed in £1800, equally as pricey a new front windscreen wiper motor.
Can confirm my old petrol SE22 GM chain driven engine as fitted to 7 other global producers inc Subaru, Fiat, Alfa did not have dual mass as stated above and scrap car at 137k.
New turbo for mine upgraded £284, beats lesser power diesels in excess of £1100.
Tax not an issue cant understand why people make a mountain out of a mole hill, think mines £294 so what divide that by 52 weeks that's only £3.73 or 8 miles travel per week.
Gorgeous sound Loply one on my list the C63 in black of course.
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We did look at a diesel many years ago but as the salesman explained, unless you drive a lot of miles each year or plan to keep the vehicle for a long time the increase in cost means you'll never get your money back in increased MPG. We did the math and he was quite right. Diesel engines are heavier as well so tyres don't last as long on FWD cars according to the fitter at my local tyre shop. It's time for a rise in duty on diesel fuel I think. :D
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Jonny,
..weeks that's only £3.73 or 8 miles travel per week.
That's expensive.
My Citroen Diesel Saxo ( and the 1.9 Diesel ZX) will do 10 miles to the litre around town all day.
That's ten miles for £1.06 at todays local prices.
Dave.
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Im in the states
I have a 2006 1.9 TDI VW Jetta four door, I get 50MPG up hill or down hill, thats a 13 gallon tank = 650 miles at $2.39 per US gallon.$31.07 per fill up
I have 240,000 miles on it, i have replaced 2 timing belts at $1100 a time, 3 sets of tyres at $650 a time, I change the synthetic oil every 10,000 miles at $70.00.
in its life i have had to replace the electronic key to it at $500, the dash display broke yet i have never replaced I don't care..two batteries at $110.00, I paid $19,500 for it and its worth now $8500. I am 53 years old I have full comp insurance on it at $70.00 per month
My point is its paid for itself....... and now its paying me.. no petrol car could have made that return, gas prices have been higher in that time but its all relative, I wont sell it i would be a fool too.
i read the posts i would like to know why the European diesels are different, in mileage and repair costs.. I live in Maryland, in the summer it reaches nearly a 100 deg regular and most winters there is a six week period where it regularly hits minus 20 deg and never had a problem starting it in both ex streams, this car was assembled in Mexico but parts are from Germany (I think).. any reasons?
Anthony.
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I'd like to know what tyres you're using as 80,000 miles per tyre is amazing.
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Anthony in the uk we salt the roads, in the towns and citys you can average (ish) 15mph if your lucky, the engines are switched off before they have even had a chance to even get warm. our cars breath moist air. Other than those things they work fine :thumbup:
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sWARF..
Still all things nearly equal your motors should give you more ... i know your conditions over there i am an ex-pat from South East London been here 25 years.. saying all this "Granted" my 90 mile commute per day is all Freeway (Duel carriageway equivalent) at a steady 75MPH on cruse.. you have the start stop effect agreed but there is still a wide variance.
Over here its only lately the small diesel has just really taken off, that's purely a result of high gas prices and the crash of 2008, people here now drive smaller compact cars and feel comfortable in them and are very gas mileage conscious because of it..
Arbalist..
they are Michelin's....every oil change i rotate its only $2.50 per wheel sometimes its free, they are though very expensive and only one of three that make that tyre for the Jetta of any quality.... they are a great product i don't run anything else.
Anthony.
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50mpg from a diesel is not very good but I guess it's because yours is ten years old. Modern diesels do much better than that. I think you're missing the point though, diesels are damaging folks health.
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(http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/VW2.jpg)
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50mpg from a diesel is not very good but I guess it's because yours is ten years old. Modern diesels do much better than that. I think you're missing the point though, diesels are damaging folks health.
Aren't US gallons, smaller than ours? :scratch:
David D
(Never owned a diesel car. But following, with interest)....... :thumbup:
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Nice one John! :clap:
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..Aren't US gallons, smaller than ours?..
Yes, about 20%.
That makes a 50 mpg car in the USA do 60 mpg in the UK.
That's still pretty good.
The terrain and traffic have a tremendous effect on mpg. You need to do side by side tests with both petrol and Diesel engined vehicles to get a true comparison.
Dave
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Our Diesel works out at $5.82 per US Gallon.
Dave.
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Our Diesel works out at $5.82 per US Gallon.
Dave.
On par then with British Rails coffee at £3.84 a slice. :palm:
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Anthony,
I think the key to this is in your long commutes.
Out of interest, what rpm are you getting at 75 mpg ?
A small Diesel is most economic at 1800 -2000 rpm. Mind you, the power isn't so high at that point on the curve.
Dave.
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Really, running constant revs on a fixed throttle is not what happens in the UK. I do this on French Autoroutes and German autobahnen is no longer applicable. You CAN get some amazing figures on a 2 litre Audi and I can see my fuel consumption on my little 1.6 Skoda on the dash.
However, these are not in the real world of UK driving with miles and miles of roadworks, traffic holdups and accidents and ice and snow and congestion. London is - and I have recently come back from a do in Great Queen Street( Yes, I am) and the traffic was slower than Victorian Times. The dinner-for 3 sausages and mash potatoes was £32. It's a bit different to when we went out in the Edgeware Road for a huge mixed grill for a dollar and a half(7/6) and the best seats in the Odeon for 9 pence( in my RAF blue)
See what you are missing?
Norman
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As to the rpm i am thinking its around 2000rpm tomorrow i will take note and post it... I believe this thing has six gears through the chain its an automatic but it has a manual selector too i will count them as well. I agree the constant speed and no start stops add in to my favor for all ware and tare of the vehicle.
Arbalist..don't get me wrong, i am not missing the point I agree they are polluting the planet something awful especially when we don't have to do it but business prevails and it aint exhausted the profit out of this economic Behemoth yet.
Its comforting to know British Rail coffee is still 10W30 at equivalent price.
Anthony.
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Anthony, I've got a very light foot and I suspect a near but more modern version of your common rail engine- and my son had one- yonks ago. Neither of us could emulate your figures. My daughter had one- and it blew up :hammer:
Obviously, there is no relationship in your conditions and ours- either in Europe or the UK. Perhaps others have similar findings.
Interesting though
Regards
Norman
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..weeks that's only £3.73 or 8 miles travel per week.
That's expensive.
My Citroen Diesel Saxo ( and the 1.9 Diesel ZX) will do 10 miles to the litre around town all day.
That's ten miles for £1.06 at todays local prices.
Dave.
That's what the gov allows .45p/mile
Use approx. 22p/mile petrol taking it easy A and motorway, some what 25% better than figures quote, the rest don't cover wear and tare.
You don't get very far standing still in traffic, my figures you would have to doing 76 to 78mpg.
Nippers 1900 VW he couldn't attain 27mpg around town, stop, start, stop start, standstill for 3 mile then A road. Mine would be very close in petrol.
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Used to use Michellin Pilots at one time on last car, they last ages got 36k on rears and from 6 to 12k fronts on 68 mile A, B and M way.
That was before the polybush upgrade where was getting 6k on fronts went to 17k on FWD.
Fill up tomorrow price drop £1.08/ltr maybe less at local BP on a Saturday. Far cry when petrol was £1.37/ltr 6 years ago.
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Jonny,
Today's Morrison fuel.
Petrol £1.05 Litre
Diesel £1.05 Litre.
First time they have been the same for long time.
Must fill up tomorrow.
Well, half full. No point in lugging the extra weight around as it only decreases the mpg.
Dave
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in some cases there is no choice.
My van is not available in petrol at any cost.
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As i said yesterday i would check my rpm here it is, I was cruising at 75 mph this morning and the rpm were 2500, my Jetta has 6 speed Tipronic transmission, two selections are Drive or sport. Its also equipped with a "Economy Mode" button which when its activated will shut down or limit power drawing services, so if you have the ac pounding ten to the dozen it will diminish some what, the computer read out is instant showing MPG when this button is activated.
in the last 2 years on TV here in the Northeast they have been advertising this vehicle getting 650 miles per tank, they dont state its 50 MPG, all 1.9 Ltr TDI Jettas are 13 gallon.
Fergus Read this: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1019256_volkswagen-jetta-tdi-much-more-mileage-than-epa-admits
I am one of three people who own Jettas TDI and get regularly 50 MPG.
By reading all posted comments there are distinct differences Between European diesels to US, I wonder why?
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Passed my bedtime- yawns a little.-as one does at 85years.
I've just given an Audi A4 Avant S Line 1.9 or 2.00 litre TDI away with a Mercedes 240 SLK Kompressor.
I'm 85 and am going to trade in a perfectly good Skoda Fabia 1-6 TDI Monte Carlo as I am being crippled with rising -exorbitant car insurance. Nowt wrong with me- merely a touch of age and now a widower.
So having passed my driving test on a Morris 8 1935. I was there -before Tee Shirts. Good night, folks
Norman
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Thank goodness I'm here to redress the balance - 4 litre supercharged V8 barely getting double-digit MPGs around town, it will get high 20s on a cruise down the motorway - at least it would do, if I could keep from repeatedly booting it to get that lovely supercharger noise :scratch:
It replaced a 4.0 Lexus V8, normally aspirated, that was too economical. That, in turn, replaced a 3 litre Vauxhall Senator that just wasn't powerful enough, which replaced the 2800cc Ford Granada which just about matched the Jag on efficiency (and running full-fat 4-star as well) but nowhere near the power.
Currently building a 5.3 litre V12 race engine which I expect to have single-digit MPGs at all speeds... and when that's ready I'll embark on the rather more expensive 8 litre version of the same engine.
I do have one diseasel vehicle - a van, which gets caned whenever it goes anywhere.
So, all you high-MPG diesel-sippers, be grateful I'm here making up for your woefully small CO2 emissions :) :D
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I'm putting my my most economical diesel car back on the road, 500cc twin cylinder automatic. I'll have have to get used to the power drop after the 2CV.
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Ade,
The devil has a special place waiting for you.
wgw,
Which 500 cc twin is that ? Sounds like a lawn mower engine, Are you having one of your silly moments, or are you serious ? :scratch:
I checked the engine revs last time I was out. The Saxo is going 46 mph at 2000 rpm.
I can tootle around town and many of our urban roads without passing 2500. Good for the economy.
If I remember correctly, when I went to visit NormanV over by Skegness I got around 63 mpg overall. Not bad for the mixed flat 'A' roads and the motorway sections.
Must go down and get a front wheel bearing before they close.
See you all later.
Dave.
By the way, tonight's subject is the Toyota Prius.
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DavidA- Never had a silly moment, my wife might disagree. 500 twin diesel- Lombadini ?, fitted in my Ligier car.
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Goodbye! :thumbup:
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/12/01/france-moves-to-ban-diesel/
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Now, would this ban be for Diesel fueled cars or for compression ignition cars in general ?
My point being would a 'Diesel' engined car that is running on bio Diesel (a methyl ester) be included in this ?
My Citroen gives much lower emissions on bio fuel than it does on Diesel (DERV).
Ironic that the French are the first to try and kill the Diesel. They were the first to sell a production car fitted with a Diesel engine. And yes, it was a Citroen.
Dave.
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The French aren't the first - we already have the 'Low emissions zone' in London that differentiates between vehicles based on a calculation of what is expected to come out of the exhaust.
Ironic in that the way they've done it with for example Land Rovers is that precisely the same chassis / engine / gearbox can be treated in different ways depending on the number of seats originally supplied :scratch:
But it was done by politicians so what can you expect :lol:
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Arbalist,
I note that you picked up on this back in response #23.
It really looks as if they (the French) are going to go for it.
Dave.
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They estimate 420,000 premature deaths a year in Europe due to air pollution largely caused by diesel emissions so they have to do something. As diesel car usage has gone up so have pollution levels in Europes capitals. Banning diesels is a start but I expect they'll also be a drive (pun intended) to make petrol vehicles cleaner.
For longer distances is this the future of public transport?
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/21/japans-maglev-train-notches-up-new-world-speed-record-in-test-run
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It's a start.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/07/transport-secretary-diesel-taxes-could-be-hiked-to-cut-air-pollu/
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On the subject of diesel motors.
Has any one who owns a VW diesel motor had the fix done yet and if so how long did the software update take?
Lyn.