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Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: j45on on October 14, 2010, 06:59:42 PM

Title: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 14, 2010, 06:59:42 PM
I'm not sure this really warrants a new topic as I shall be shamelessly copying Craynerds stepper mounting and using Kwackers plans for the electronics  :bow:
Maybe I will detail the building of the electronic bits instead of what has already been done.
But it will be a good place to ask daft questions without filling up other peoples project logs  ::)
I know  :worthless: but until postie delivers my bits there is nothing to show

So far I have ordered the LCD display , 10Mhz crystal , 7805 5V DC Voltage Regulator , Microchip PIC18F452-I/P and a 40 pin dip socket
Well apart from the lcd I bought a few of each incase I cock something up  :zap:

I already have copper pcb , ferric chloride , toner transfer stuff and loads of resistors capacitors and possibly the diodes

The main bits I'm confused about are which stepper and controller ? to get.
For the controller It would be nice if I can find something to fit in the case along with the rest of the electronics DIY from plans or a kit would be good as well
And the stepper I don't want something huge hanging off my poor little mill but I would like to do some light milling as well so I'm unsure of torque requirements  :scratch:
Would the the stepper at the top of Arc Euro's page be to small ? http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Stepper-Motors/Stepper-Motors

I would also like to power the whole lot from my old laptop psu it outputs 19.5 volts 6.7A 130W this should this be enough right ?
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: Bluechip on October 14, 2010, 07:34:47 PM
Jason

Just an observation.

Some SMPS power supplies don't like transient loads like steppers on them.

You can get the output voltage collapsing to a low value momentarily. ie a nominal 12V dropping to some 6V or so for several hundred uSecs.

Try your PSU if it is otherwise suitable . If you get mis-stepping, you might need to scope the PSU output before you look elsewhere.

Dave BC

 
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: Brass_Machine on October 14, 2010, 08:38:14 PM
Absolutely it deserves its own thread. Please post away!

Eric
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: spuddevans on October 15, 2010, 03:43:24 AM
Some SMPS power supplies don't like transient loads like steppers on them.

You can get the output voltage collapsing to a low value momentarily. ie a nominal 12V dropping to some 6V or so for several hundred uSecs.

Very true, but isnt that why god created 10,000uF capacitors :thumbup:

 Just bung a couple of 10000uF caps in parallel, or maybe just one if you are only driving one stepper motor and that should smooth out any of the voltage "dipping" effect that Dave was talking about.


Tim
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: Bluechip on October 15, 2010, 03:55:05 AM
Tim

Yup, my first weapon of choice. A 33,000 uF Sprague Compulytic.

As ever, the Gods crapped upon me, the PSU would not fire up, 'cos it thought it had a s/cct on the output. ATX PSU btw.

So, nothing daunted, to 'prove' I got two wacking great stud diodes. Ran the contraption from the psu through one, and a 12V 40 Ah SLA through t'other.

Fault fixed. Eventually made the geezer a grunty LINEAR. ( T'was not my cnc thingy-wotsit ). I just got involved through a mate.

Dont do cnc. I can effectively make scrap manually. No need to automate.  :thumbup:

Dave BC
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: raynerd on October 15, 2010, 05:41:59 AM
J45son

Others on here will tell you much more valuble info but if it is any help.

I used the 4.2A (?) or whatever it is, smallest Arc Euro stepper. I was a tight fisted sod and purchased a cheap one from ebay china, a cheapish one from Routout CNC and I managed to kill  :zap: the ebay one for NO reason at all and I made an error and frazzled the Routout. OK, so the Routout one wasn`t of its own fault but the two Arc Euro ones I have have always been nothing short of perfect.

I think my stepper driver is set short of 2A and has plenty of torque to do some light milling. Infact I milled a nice edge with a ball nose onto the cap end of my 10V cylinder cover a few nights back with no problems - light cuts mind you! I think my motor is a Nema 23 of 190 Ncm.

I run it all using ~18V laptop charger, I think Kwacks controller has a regulator in for the 5v for the chip, so I simply run the 18V to the stepper driver and the controller. The other advantage of the Arc Euro driver is that it has a built in voltage regulator, I`m pretty sure for the other two you have to make your own voltage regulator and supply the driver with 5v and obviously the drivers motor connections with the full.

I`m sure others will chime in with more useful info but that is how mine works and I`ve had no probs for nearly a year now and has always been perfect.
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on October 15, 2010, 06:12:31 AM
J45son

and I made an error and frazzled the Routout.
Error?
 :lol:
I shook half a pound of swarf out of its electronics!



Lesson #1: Box.
Put the electronics somewhere nice, they don't like water and they most definitely don't like swarf!  :doh:
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: raynerd on October 15, 2010, 08:07:11 AM
sh1t - forgot you looked at it for me  :bang:    OK, it was swarf ... well who was I to know that little shards of metal would short out connections!  :ddb:
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on October 15, 2010, 03:21:14 PM
@j45on

The stepper you've linked to may well be fine, it's only cheap and the mounting is the same as the larger stepper anyway.

Assuming you want to try and keep the size and weight down then what I'd do is buy a driver capable of driving the bigger motor (2.5A), buy the smaller motor and simply set the driver to 1A to drive it.

If it doesn't work then eBay it and buy the bigger one - it'll be a straight swap, just that it'll stick out more.

Worth bearing in mind the intermittent nature of dividing too, which means you could try being naughty and simply crank up the current on the small motor, it'll shorten it's life but given how little work they actually do as dividers I doubt that will be much of an issue. (You won't get the same torque as the big motor though - even at the same current).
(Should point out I'm only guessing at this entire last paragraph - I've never tried it).

With regards the laptop PSU, I've used several for various projects and never had an issue.
If you do have an issue then the large capacitor will fix it and the problem of the PSU shutting down can be gotten round by a resistor in series with the power to the capacitor - this will limit the current to it. The resistor can then be 'shorted out' once the capacitor has charged either manually with a switch or by a 555 based timer and relay.

(You may even find that simply putting the capacitor in series with a resistor calculated for max PSU current and putting them across the supply might be enough to get round any issues with the PSU. Obviously a bit more 'lossy' than switching out the resistor though.)

Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 15, 2010, 04:35:39 PM
Some bits turned up today
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-15at211521.jpg)

I'm going to crack on with etching a board tomorow  :hammer: and must take lots of pics

Thanks for all the tips and info  :thumbup: the big purchases like the stepper and driver will have to wait until I get paid which is luckily when ARC re open after the midlands show

I have a few questions  :scratch:
The 8 pin SIL socket for the keyboard ,all the ones I have found look like pin header sockets but the keyboard looks like it has a flat ribbon cable end ?
VR1 the 10k preset I have no idea what I'm looking for there are so many options what do I need to look for ?
EDIT I was looking at these ? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/5-10k-POTENTIOMETERS-preset-ohms-resistor-variable-/220503329565?pt=UK_BOI_Electrical_Components_Supplies_ET&hash=item335705cb1d#ht_1973wt_907
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on October 15, 2010, 05:42:50 PM
The variables you've linked to are fine.

The keyboard connection depends on your keyboard. Some people have simply bought the one's I've used (from Farnell or RS) in which case whilst they're ribbon cables they terminate in a header which will fit on a 8 pin SIL.
Others have rolled their own - in which case you can either solder the wires directly or fit any form of plug and socket arrangement.
If you're not going with the Farnell/RS keypad option then don't solder anything there until you know what you're going to use.

(Got enough 7805's there?)
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 15, 2010, 07:43:15 PM
(Got enough 7805's there?)
:lol: yes I don't remember buying ten oh well more spares for my box of bits

EDIT just noticed farnell have a identical looking keypad which is £2.22 cheaper before vat
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1171224
and the cheaper one
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?sku=1774831
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 16, 2010, 05:34:33 PM
I think I have most of the parts now

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/bits.jpg)

I found a nice heat sink for IC2 off of an old board (I have a box of old boards  ::) ) and LC1 I found on another board
The pic and 10k preset are in the post and I still have to order the keyboard,diodes,100nF caps and SIL socket.

I am unsure about the two 33pf caps as they are just marked 33  :scratch:

Anyway some pics of the board
I used toner transfer paper and a laser printer
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-16at214630.jpg)

I printed out a test image to make sure it was the correct size
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-16at214612.jpg)

Then used the print to cut out a piece of copper clad pcb
The pcb that comes with the kit is 0.8mm thick which means it cuts great in a paper guillotine
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-16at214645.jpg)

Next I print out another copy and tape a piece of toner transfer paper over the image
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-16at214717.jpg)

And run it back through the printer again
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-16at214730.jpg)

Then I take the toner transfer paper and tape it face down on to my piece of pcb
and run it through this laminator (this is apparently the only laminator that will do this I got mine from ebay)
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-16at214743.jpg)

After it has been through a few times I let it cool and then soak it in  water which removes the paper leaving
a black toner mask on the board
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-16at214756.jpg)

Next I wrap the board in a piece of the green foil which came with the kit and bung it back through the laminator
This is to seal the possibly porous black toner
As you can see it blocks up some of the holes but these lift out with gentle use of masking tape
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-16at214805.jpg)

Almost there now but no pics of the etching process
I placed the board in a plastic tub with warm ferric chloride and gently brushed the board with a paint brush ( as I'm impatient )
Rinsed the board and cut off the edges with the guillotine then finaly removed the toner mask with some scotch brite
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-16at214821.jpg)

Just need to drill lots of tiny holes now :dremel:

Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: Brass_Machine on October 16, 2010, 06:03:31 PM
Nice job etching the board. Never thought to use a lamination machine to press the toner. Not a bad idea. Would keep SWMBO happy... me not using her iron and all.

Eric
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 16, 2010, 06:12:24 PM
Eric
According to the company that sell the toner kit they claim that only GBC laminators work because they have heated rollers
Apparently other laminators heat between the rollers and don't work
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: Rob.Wilson on October 16, 2010, 06:14:01 PM
Hi Jason  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:   

i am watching with interest  ,,, GREAT STUFF  :D


Rob 

Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: tumutbound on October 16, 2010, 06:20:51 PM
Eric
According to the company that sell the toner kit they claim that only GBC laminators work because they have heated rollers
Apparently other laminators heat between the rollers and don't work

There's an article here (http://ultrakeet.com.au/index.php?id=article&name=superfuser)  about improving the GBC laminator for this sort of work.

[While you're there, check out their article on building a spot welder  :thumbup:]
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: Brass_Machine on October 16, 2010, 07:16:15 PM
Eric
According to the company that sell the toner kit they claim that only GBC laminators work because they have heated rollers
Apparently other laminators heat between the rollers and don't work

There's an article here (http://ultrakeet.com.au/index.php?id=article&name=superfuser)  about improving the GBC laminator for this sort of work.

[While you're there, check out their article on building a spot welder  :thumbup:]

Great info and link!

Thanks

Eric
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on October 17, 2010, 04:46:48 AM
Nice PCB! Good luck drilling the holes - I always miss one. Many's the time I'm trying to squeeze a carbide drill between components on a nearly completed board...

BTW the 33 caps are in pf so you are correct. Looks like you'll be able to test it soon! You can test it without plugging it into stepper drivers etc. Even without a keypad you can still see the startup splash screen (check the contrast if not! ;-)
You can also mimic the keypad with a bit of wire if you don't have one - just look at the 8 pins R1-R4 and C1-C4, by 'shorting' a row pin to a column pin you can 'press' a key.

It's also a good idea before the IC is plugged in and the LCD connected that you apply power and check the voltage to the IC power lines is 5v (otherwise you'll sulk - particularly if you lose the LCD...)

To mount the LCD (so that it could be removed should I ever need to) you may wish to use SIL headers and sockets (the sockets I made simply by cutting up old IC sockets).
Even if you don't use the headers the best way is to bolt the LCD to the pcb using the standoffs and then feed the wires through both and solder them up. For a while you can bend the LCD up out of the way on it's wires if you need to, obviously too much and the wires will snap.
If you use the SIL headers and sockets, solder the sockets to the LCD and bolt the LCD to the PCB then push the headers through from the back until they're a good fit into the socket (this is the easiest way to get them the right length) then solder them up.
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: raynerd on October 17, 2010, 05:12:04 AM
...without a keypad you can still see the startup splash screen (check the contrast if not! ;-)

Yes, that has caused me hours of pointless trouble shooting!


Nice going - your PCB looks excellent!
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: madjackghengis on October 17, 2010, 08:48:10 AM
j4son, hi, I am glad you decided to do your build log on the electronics, I am about to embark on a parallel build for my own rotary table, and have just joined the CNC website Kwackers posted his build on, to get the information, thanks Kwackers, for putting this out in public, I never would have seen it without Chris' build, and would never attempt it without your having tried it first, and "cut a path", you don't know how much your work is appreciated.  I have to say a couple things:  first, pc board making has changed much since the last time I did it, I had to burn onto a clear sheet, spray on etch resist coat on the blank board, and put the board and circuit on clear in a glass topped box out in the sun for a few minutes, before sticking it in ferric chloride and etching.  Having made hundreds of boards at a time this way, in a factory for the initial run, use carbide drills only, and when they feel dull, they are, don't use them any more, at risk of having to do some mining, and digging.  I haven't decided how to do my board yet, I don't have all the equipment you do, but you have shown the board is a workable issue, even if it has been since 81 since I last made a board.  That's a great start, I'm glad you're using so many used parts, as I may be able to copy, and what was said about huge capacitors is dead on right, it works.  I'm wondering if I threw away a useable keypad when I disassembled the last microwave oven I threw away.  Make lots of pictures so us slow folks can keep up please.   :poke: mad jack
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: Spurry on October 17, 2010, 08:57:23 AM
This looks like an EGHSHO project! Every Good Home Should Have One. Does anyone one know if a DXF drawing of the hole positions is available from anywhere? It would be very tedious to drill all those tiny holes manually.

Thanks  :wave:

Pete
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 17, 2010, 09:28:19 AM
Time to drill some holes  :dremel:

First off I got board trying to drill the holes with a pinvise and a 0.8mm drill (smallest I have)
so I got out the dremel workstation and proceeded to FUBAR the board  :scratch:
Tying to line up the tiny holes in the copper is no fun especially when you pull the handle and the drill decides to go another way
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Untitled7.jpg)
sorry for the poor pics
So I etched another board and had a look at the drill press
I raised it up on some scrap wood

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Untitled3.jpg)

And hot glued a old webcam under the table  :loco: stick with me

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Untitled2.jpg)

view from webcam

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Untitled.jpg)

I taped a bit of scrap pcb down and drilled a hole

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Untitled4.jpg)

Then I stuck a piece of OHP film to my monitor (cling film would probably work to)
and marked the hole with a sharpie  

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Untitled5.jpg)

Then drilled a few more test holes and was happy enough to have a go at the new board
it's not perfect but should do if I was to do this again I would be less impatient and purchase some smaller drill bits

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Untitled6.jpg)

I think with a better aligned and focused web cam and a better press or use my mill  :doh:
That this would be a very accurate way to drill pcb holes

Please bear in mind that I used 0.8mm thick pcb I don't know how well light would shine through thicker pcb
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on October 17, 2010, 10:53:27 AM
Have you missed one? Certainly looks like it..

Far right hand one on the keyboard connector.

Drilling holes in PCB's is something you develop a knack for. I have small drill just for that purpose. The work area needs to be well lit and I tend to quickly bring the drill down to the PCB to check position then a quick jab and it's through and on to the next one. Once you get used to the amount of 'parallax' error etc then it takes about half a second a hole.

I like the webcam idea though!
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 17, 2010, 11:06:15 AM
Looks like I will be etching another  :(
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/7e33051b.jpg)

My grip slipped while I was shearing the board to size  :bang: Third time lucky I suppose.

Kwackers
Looks like I did  :doh: I have loads of PN222A transistors would they be any good for this ?
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on October 17, 2010, 11:21:08 AM
Transistors look fine, all you want is a general purpose NPN transistor.

Seems a shame to waste the PCB... A bit of fudgery is all that's required to fix the mounting hole (or mount by a different method).

If I had a £1 for every time someone asked me if I made PCB's for the divider...  :ddb:
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: cidrontmg on October 17, 2010, 12:49:34 PM
If I had a £1 for every time someone asked me if I made PCB's for the divider...  :ddb:
Heh, I guess you still would be way behind J.K.Rowlings. But even if one in 5 of the interested would actually also buy a board, it just might be somewhat of a business. You surely wouldn“t be giving them away for free...
I“m trying to use a stripboard, there“s not that many in the way of components really.
 :wave:
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: slowcoach on October 18, 2010, 06:06:22 AM
Nice job on the PCB  :clap:. I was going to go down the stripeboard route myself, but I'm tempted to have a go at that etching malarkey  :D

Rob
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 18, 2010, 07:34:57 AM
The excellent link tumutbound posted above has a much more detailed walkthrough of the etching process
http://ultrakeet.com.au/index.php?id=article&name=makepcbs

I have decided to use this board now rather than etch another and will have some more pictures soon
And the postman should be bringing me the rest of the missing parts

EDit started stuffing the board with what I have
I use a solder flux pen on the solder pads
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/pen.jpg)

I need more parts now  :hammer:
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/pcb.jpg)

Notice the resistor legs left over these will be handy to connect the lcd later
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 19, 2010, 11:43:22 AM
Some more bits arrived today

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/frrt.jpg)

I'm still waiting for the PIC and some caps from ebay

I ordered these from farnell http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?CMP=i-ddd7-00001003&sku=1469371
But they look nothing like the picture  :scratch:
Are they suitable ? if so which way round do they go ?

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/sgdgrev.jpg)
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on October 19, 2010, 12:05:27 PM
Looking good!

Diodes are fine, dark band is the cathode as per normal so just place it them the same way round as shown on the component placement diagram.

Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 19, 2010, 02:17:23 PM
Cheers Kwackers  :thumbup: I was worried I bought the wrong thing

I'm going to have to think about programming the pic soon
Just noticed the ebay seller for my pic is away until the 25th  :doh:

There seams to be a confusing amount of programers out there and I don't know what to get  :scratch:
I have programed a AVR micro-controller before but only with specific instructions to follow (I didn't know what I was doing)
What programer would you recomend ?
And what software would I need ?
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on October 20, 2010, 05:36:42 AM
I'm possibly not the best person to ask for PIC programming - I use either a Microchip Picstart2, or the Mikroelectronica programmers, neither of which are priced for one off projects...

However I have in the past used a freeware JDM programmer - there are lots of clones available on eBay (for example)
eBay JDM Programmer (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PIC-MCU-JDM-Programmer-Microchip-IC-MCU-PIC-Program-/150497366113?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item230a579061#ht_4576wt_899)
Indeed a quick whizz around eBay will throw up a multitude of clones and cheap programmers of all denominations.

Most of the hardware comes with software (usually one of the freeware programmers floating around) but there's a whole shed full of software available (Here for example (http://members.aon.at/electronics/pic/picpgm/index.html)).

The good news is that 18F's are simple devices to program, so there are lots of cheap programmers around and I'd imagine most will work fine, certainly I know lots of people who've built this have also bought cheap programmers and haven't heard anyone complain yet...


(I should add the best way is to usually find someone near you who has such a device....)
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: slowcoach on October 20, 2010, 06:27:19 AM
Hi, I have used these in the past, PIC-PG2 Programmer from cool components http://www.coolcomponents.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=32&products_id=42 also listed on the page is a few links to free compatible software to use with it.

Enjoying the thread  :thumbup:

Rob
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 20, 2010, 09:04:57 AM
Cheers guys I have one ordered  :beer:
So I now face a bit of a wait for parts so I thought I would crack on with the bit I was dreading most
Cutting a hole in the box  :dremel:

I didn't get any pics of the first bit but I covered the front with masking tape and carefully measured and marked out the hole for the lcd to poke through.
I will be using some standoff's to hold the lcd to the front panel and will machine them so that the lcd sits flush as shown

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/boxv.jpg)

Having the lcd flush and counter sinking the screws will enable me to use this cover I have printed and laminated (someone else's idea but I don't know who's )
This will be stuck down with some very thin double sided tape and should keep out the swarf and grinding dust that seams to get into everything in my shed/shop

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/faceplate.jpg)

This is my third attempt as the laminating film seams to shrink in the cut out window if it gets to hot
In fact the whole thing tends to shrink just a little throwing out the dimensions so laminate as cool as you can get away with
I used inkscape to design the panel it's free http://inkscape.org/ and I would have made a coloured design but my colour printer never quite gets the size accurate for some reason.

Next to design some inserts for the keypad  :hammer:
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: John Rudd on October 20, 2010, 10:20:27 AM
If anyone needs a pic programming, give me a shout...

I have a JDM, a Velleman ( blows the dust off...... :zap:      ) and a (genuine) PicKit2.....
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 20, 2010, 11:20:01 AM
Thanks for the offer John  :thumbup:
Hopefully I can do it myself  ::) if not I know who to call

While I was in the shop the postman called with my cap's
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/woohoo.jpg)

It works
Well what I have so far works  :ddb:
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: raynerd on October 20, 2010, 12:21:15 PM
Haha - fab  :ddb: your boxs looks great. I threw mine together in about 2 hours, to be fair it does the job but your looks excellent!

Chris
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: John Rudd on October 20, 2010, 12:52:51 PM
Very pro looking, better than some of my electronic 'efforts'.... :scratch:

Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: Brass_Machine on October 20, 2010, 01:50:23 PM
Nice looking so far!

Eric
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on October 20, 2010, 02:01:40 PM
0.06v too low...

Just remember that means it'll be 0.06% out. So if you're going clockwise you'll need to add 0.06% to the values and anticlockwise take it off...
 :thumbup:

Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 20, 2010, 03:03:15 PM
0.06v too low...

Just remember that means it'll be 0.06% out. So if you're going clockwise you'll need to add 0.06% to the values and anticlockwise take it off...
 :thumbup:



Are you fibbing ?  :scratch:

I have spent far to long on the keypad and used about five sheets of paper but I'm happy now
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/kkkkkkkk.jpg)

Will get in printed in colour tomorrow the speed text and arrows will be blue
S and C butons will be red and G will be green
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: John Rudd on October 20, 2010, 03:20:22 PM
He's taking the Michael..........

He read the 4.94v on your dvm....

A tutorial on how you made the panel inlays would be good... :bow:
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 20, 2010, 03:41:50 PM
I thought he was  :lol: but my gullible side was creeping through  ::)
Hmm a tutorial for the panel sounds tricky but I will give it a go  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 22, 2010, 11:02:53 AM
As requested by John I will try to show you how I made the front panel

First you will need to measure your panel hight and width
Then measure in from the sides to the edge of the lcd window Just the bit that lights up
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/measure.jpg)

This is how I did it and there are probably better ways to get to the same result I'm also cr*p at showing people what to do  :lol:

Inkscape is a free Open Source vector graphics editor, with capabilities similar to Illustrator, CorelDraw, or Xara X

To download inkscape find the download link on the top left of this page http://inkscape.org/
and look for this bit arrowed if you run windows or above if you use a mac
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at134047.jpg)

Now we can move on to making the panel

(before you go to far I suggest you make a small rectangle using the tools shown below and size it to a known and easy to measure size eg: 1" square
then print it and measure it I have had trouble with some printers getting an accurate sized print  :scratch: )

Once you have it installed and open it will look like this
To make sure we have the right settings click on file in the top left
then hover your mouse over "new" and select A4 from the list then close the old window underneath.
The tool arrowed is the one we shall use the most today
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at125844.jpg)

Click the "box / rectangle tool" and in the white rectangle which represents your sheet of A4 paper
Click and drag to draw a rectangle
Size is unimportant but be aware that anything outside of the A4 area will not be printed

You should now have something like this before you go any further right click on the box you just drew and select "fill and stroke"

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at140326.jpg)

This will open up a box on the right of the window like this
Click on the stroke paint tab and make sure the box no paint is clicked(black arrow)
Then close it with the red arrow

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at140433.jpg)

Now we can size the box If your box is not selected use the select and transform tool and then click on your box
Now we need to change the measurements from pixels to mm or inches what ever you are using
click the green arrow

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/124.jpg)

And select the mm option

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at131657.jpg)

You wil now probably have to select your box again then you can change the size by typing in your own dimensions in the arrowed boxes

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at131730.jpg)

This black box will be our guide so if it is the correct size save your work and continue
Next draw a rectangle using the box/rectangle tool roughly to the shape shown below
While it is still selected pick a colour from the bar at the bottom pick a colour you can find again
as we need to make four boxes the same colour

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at132325.jpg)

Then to size your new box click the select and transform tool and select your boxyou can now change the width to match the black one (your panel) and use the hight taken from your measurement
from the top of the panel to the lcd window
You will probably need to change the pixels to mm again
Then using the arrowed magnifying tool drag a small box around one corner of the two boxes

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at132557.jpg)

Zoom in a few times until you can line up the edges you may have to select the red box using the select and transform tool to move it
Once you think you have it correctly aligned use the scroll bars to check the other corners all line up
Then exit back to page view by clicking the button arrowed in green

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at133348.jpg)

If your happy with that save your work
Now using the same method as above draw a box over the bottom half and size it with your width and hight to lcd window measurements

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at150928.jpg)

Then zoom in as far as you can and align the new box with the bottom corners as you did with the top one

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at151112.jpg)
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at151815.jpg)

Once your happy save again and on to the sides
As before use the box/rectangle tool to drag out a tall rectangle you might find it useful to use another colour
until the box is aligned to help you see it

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at152133.jpg)

And size it as before to your panel hight and side to lcd measurement

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at152407.jpg)

Align the box as before and when your happy change the colour to match the others

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at152819.jpg)

Repeat for the other side and when happy save your work

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at153250.jpg)

Now we shall join all four boxes together
Click the select and transform button(black arrow)
Now while holding down the SHIFT key on your keyboard click all four red boxes but not the black one
If you have done it right you should see what the blue arrow is pointing at

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at153436.jpg)

Then without deselecting anything press the path button at the top and hover your mouse over UNION and click

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at153645.jpg)

You should now have one red panel  :ddb:
Deselect by clicking in blank space away from the panel and then click the black bit through the hole in the red bit
you can now move that to one side off of the page (remember if it's not on the page it wont get printed so you can save all sorts of bits off page and not delete them)
Now would be a good time to change to panel colour to a printer friendly grey(to save on ink) and print it out chop it up and see if it fits  :thumbup:

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Screenshot2010-10-22at154510.jpg)

I don't think I have missed anything  :scratch: so I hope it makes sense and is easy to follow  :thumbup:

The next bit of the (if needed ) tutorial will cover adding text to your panel and laminating
 






Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: madjackghengis on October 22, 2010, 12:05:59 PM
Hi Jason, that is one professional tutorial :headbang:  I think even I can follow it and not end up using felt tip markers for the buttons when I get to that point.  If I can follow it anyone can.  Thanks for the very carefully laid out tuturial, I will use it when I get past the making of the board, and get the parts I still need.  Great Job.  mad jack
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 22, 2010, 03:56:09 PM
I will do  keypad insert tutorial as well hopefully some time this weekend
I had my keypad printed by a friend with a colour laser printer it looked great
But came out under size  :scratch: I need to get to the bottom of this printing problem
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: John Rudd on October 22, 2010, 04:05:15 PM
Wow......I bet that took some tme to learn....... :bow:

My biggest problem is learning something completely new...

I'm very impatient but your tut should help me to make a more 'pro' looking panel for future electronic projects

Ta very much.. :clap:
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: raynerd on October 22, 2010, 04:19:27 PM
.... I just did mine in word  :lol:  :jaw: I`m guessing there must have been a better approach
 (http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/divider11.JPG)
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 22, 2010, 04:43:42 PM
Your's looks great Craynerd nice and even that's what I'm trying to achieve  :bow:
I'm only using inkscape because I have used it a little before to make some vinyl stickers so I knew if I wanted a 5x5 inch square for example thats exactly what would cut
But I'm having trouble printing  :scratch: to the right size

Here is whats happening
The top greyscale one is perfect from an old B&W laser printer
the lowest one is colour laser printed and to short and a little to short in hight as well
the centre two are massively to big and from a inkjet printer
all printed from the same file  :bang:
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Untitled-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on October 22, 2010, 04:57:22 PM
I'd just decide which printer I liked and tweak the positioning and font sizes until I was happy with the result.

Mind you I've never had a printer that didn't print things the right size...

Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: John Swift on October 22, 2010, 05:09:25 PM
Hi

 a while ago I had problems with a PDF pcb design from the US
part way through rescaling noticed the design was for a US / imperial  paper size
and the printer defaulted to A4

   John
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: madjackghengis on October 23, 2010, 07:05:20 AM
In reply to John's note/observation, isn't it nice we can have so many differing systems that work fine with each other, but just can't completely figure out how to scale to each other's base line.  I find the same thing sort of amusment trying to go from Imperial to US or metric to US, and not knowing the defaults or standard practices.  I think it's good just because it causes our brains to hurt, and makes us come up with independent solutions.  I will be printing things for my build when I've got this whole thing fingered out, I'm still having a bit of a time finding pc board here in the colonies, or I should say board without holes and plated through already.  But the store has ferric chloride, just in case you want to etch those plated through boards.  I grudging left with a tub of rosin and 556 ic, dual 555 timer, and no board.  I expect I'll have to find it on the internet. :bang: mad jack
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on October 23, 2010, 08:40:52 AM
madjack,

You want to get into programming PIC's (or similar), with only a few lines of code a 8 pin PIC can do everything a 555 or 556 can do with less components and cheaper!
And being programmable, it can do an awful lot more!
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: John Stevenson on October 23, 2010, 09:09:15 AM
Why not draw the enclosure and / or keypad in a CAD program for precision instead of an art program ??

John S.
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 23, 2010, 11:32:44 AM
Why not draw the enclosure and / or keypad in a CAD program for precision instead of an art program ??

John S.

If I had one I would  :D
I have an old XP PC and an old black and white laser printer they both print exactly what I tell them to print
My newest computer is a mac with a new kodak colour inkjet this wont print exactly what I tell it

I originally made the file on the mac it prints properly on the PC but not the mac :scratch:

Now I'm just going with a black and white keypad as it's winding me up now  :lol:
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 28, 2010, 07:17:22 AM
Not much of an update but I have some more parts now and Arc Euro Trade have more of my money :lol:
I also have the pic chip but I'm still waiting for the programer to arrive

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/c79fa8e1.jpg)
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: madjackghengis on October 28, 2010, 12:02:15 PM
madjack,

You want to get into programming PIC's (or similar), with only a few lines of code a 8 pin PIC can do everything a 555 or 556 can do with less components and cheaper!
And being programmable, it can do an awful lot more!

I don't know much about programing, and you can bet I will follow your lead all the way, with regard to getting this rotary table cnc operating, I just picked up the 556 because they are so handy and cheap, and I didn't have an extra one laying around.  It might well become the oscillator/driver for the flasher I can't buy for love nor money for my new/old 81 Mercedes 240D, so I can get it registered with turn signals and everything.  I'm still stuck on not having found the parts to make the board you so gallantly made available to all to use.  I've got a nice print out of the board on paper, and I'm going to try the repeat printing you describe on your other forum, but I don't know if my printer will be accurate enough, and I will either have to revert to the way I etched boards in the early eighties, or use the iron method of transfer of ink, to the circuit board.  Does ink jet ink transfer with heat?  If not, I will have to print on a clear sheet, and use photo-resist and put the board and print out in the sun for a few minutes.  By the way, I did not know the "PIC" was an eight pin chip, I'm way behind you, and slow to catch up, but really appreciate the learning experience.  More than I can truly express. :jaw: :bow: mad jack
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on October 28, 2010, 12:13:46 PM
By the way, I did not know the "PIC" was an eight pin chip, I'm way behind you, and slow to catch up, but really appreciate the learning experience.
Hi Jack,
PIC is a generic term for a family of devices. You can get them in as little as six pin surface mount versions up to 100+ pins.
The 8 pin versions come in a number of flavours but can be bought in the same form factor as a 555.
The version used in the divider is a 40 pin device, mainly because it provides enough pins to hook up the LCD, keypad and still have enough left to drive the stepper etc.

Good luck with the PCB, don't forget you can use stripboard if all else fails. If you do I'd recommend placing components similarly to their PCB positions.
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 28, 2010, 05:24:37 PM
madjack you could always get your inkjet print photocopied then you could iron it or there is a good video on etching a board using the photoresist method here
I always assumed you had to use a UV light to do this which is why I went with toner transfer but I think I will give this a go next time
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2849.0

Guys I have some questions about my stepper motor I have to freely admit I know jack about them
The one I have bought has eight wires and the driver has 4 outputs and is labelled as a "bi-polar driver"
So as far as I can tell from the instructions I have two options series and parallel  :scratch:
Also I noticed at the bottom of picture 2 that
Arc Euro motors supplied with their rotary tables are wired in parallel so am I correct in guessing thats what I should do ?
The final picture labels the wires from the stepper driver as A+ and A- / B+ and B- yet no mention is made of wire polarity on the motor data sheet
Now I'm super confused  ::)

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/jkgvkfu.jpg)

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/Untitled8897t.jpg)

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/nbvjv.jpg)

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/jfufouytio.jpg)
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: tumutbound on October 28, 2010, 08:04:48 PM
Bipolar parallel will give the best results seeing maximum torque is more important here than higher speed.

Here (http://www.probotix.com/stepper_motors/unipolar_bipolar/)'s a short explanation as to the difference in the various ways to connect 8 wire steppers.
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: DMIOM on October 29, 2010, 03:56:24 AM
Jason,

You may also find it useful to read the Stepper Motor Basics paper from Mariss & Marcus of Geckodrive - either online (https://www.geckodrive.com/support.aspx?q=10005) or downloadable as a pdf (https://www.geckodrive.com/upload/Step%20Motor%20Basics%20Guide.pdf)

Dave
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on October 29, 2010, 04:35:48 AM
Don't worry about wire polarity.

If you swap one set the motor will run the other way, swap both and nothing changes...
(The software can swap the direction of motor rotation anyway in the setup.)
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on October 29, 2010, 01:40:48 PM
Thank you for the links tumutbound and DMIOM  :thumbup: interesting read

Kwackers I thought it might be a case of wire the motor up and if it doesn't work if swap some wires
But I just wanted to make sure  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: jatt on November 03, 2010, 07:05:07 AM
"According to the company that sell the toner kit they claim that only GBC laminators work because they have heated rollers
Apparently other laminators heat between the rollers and don't work "

Bit like a fuser in a photocopier.  Cant remember what temps we are talking about in a copier tho.  Heat created by long lamps that ran thru the centre of the rollers.

Springs to set the tension between the heat rollers if memory serves me correctly.

Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on November 03, 2010, 04:58:37 PM
I'm getting bored now waiting for my programer to turn up from china/hong kong ( I except all stuff like this will be held up because of the recent bomb plot )
I want to get on with this project at the weekend  :(
Where could I order a programer and what I need to program a 40 pin pic tonight ? for the weekend
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on November 03, 2010, 05:16:46 PM
Whereabouts are you? Probably someone nearby who can zap it for you.

I could be mistaken, but looking at some of those shots of the inside of the bomb I thought I saw a PIC programmer in there - perhaps it was yours?  :)
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on November 03, 2010, 05:33:00 PM
I'm in Ashford,kent http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?client=safari&rls=en&q=ashford+kent&oe=UTF-8&redir_esc=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=Ashford,+Kent&gl=uk&ei=ANTRTKeXNJTNjAfTv_CKDA&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=title&resnum=1&ved=0CCIQ8gEwAA
But I only have use of my motorcycle at the moment and that wont come out of hibernation until spring  :loco:
So unless someone lives within push bike distance  :lol: I have to order one plus I would like to pursue other pic based projects in the future
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on November 03, 2010, 06:04:26 PM
I feel your pain, my motorcycle has also entered hibernation - something it likes to do the moment the local authority throw salt on the road (which they did a couple of weeks ago).
I use my pushbike to get around (including my 28 mile commute to work each day  :loco: ).
Fortunately I do have a car too though (engineering stuff being heavy 'n all...)
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on November 03, 2010, 06:50:30 PM
28 mile  :bugeye: mine is only around six and that kills me  ::)
I also have a car but it is SORN'ed and needs taxing
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: Stot on November 04, 2010, 05:31:31 AM
I'm getting bored now waiting for my programer to turn up from china/hong kong ( I except all stuff like this will be held up because of the recent bomb plot )
I want to get on with this project at the weekend  :(
Where could I order a programer and what I need to program a 40 pin pic tonight ? for the weekend

I got one sitting on my desk (http://olimex.com/dev/pic-pg2.html) you can borrow.   PM me your address ill post it to you (hopefully in time for the weekend).

Cheers
Stot
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on November 04, 2010, 11:07:22 AM
Thank you for the offer Stot  :nrocks: and the PM much appreciated  :thumbup:
Had I not ordered one last night I would take you up on your generous offer.

EDIT: post has arrived  :ddb:
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/cc2e946a.jpg)
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: Stot on November 05, 2010, 09:25:26 AM
Yep thats the fella.  I could only get mine to work in XP, anything above that doesn't allow direct access to the serial port.  I may have even had to tweak XP to allow it.  :scratch:

Cheers
Stot
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on November 05, 2010, 06:12:05 PM
Cheers for the heads up Stot
I could not get it to work at first using an extension cable I use for my vinyl plotter
But when plugged in directly to the back of the pc worked fine
I could not believe how easy it was  :ddb:
plugged it in and started ICPROG it auto detected the programer and chip I then selected the hex file and off it went job done first try  :ddb:

I cant wait to test it with the stepper motor tomorrow  :zap:

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/da6898cb.jpg)
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on November 06, 2010, 12:08:42 PM
Tested it with a stepper motor and driver today and it worked a treat  :ddb:

(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/e142130b.jpg)

Just waiting for some standoff's to arrive so I can finish the case and must remember to order some plugs and sockets
And machine the stepper mount  :hammer:
I'm also wondering if I should mount the driver in the case as well
it will fit but may get to hot

s=1&hl=en_US

I originally ordered two displays a blue and a green one I shall be sticking with the blue one (looks cool and matches my lathe) but noticed the green one is very dimly lit and would probably need the 82R resistor changing for a different value ?
Just incase someone is building one with a green lcd  :thumbup:

Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: tumutbound on November 06, 2010, 06:16:50 PM
It's probably a little late seeing you've already bought your stepper driver but ...

The annual Gecko sale (http://www.geckodrive.com/products.aspx?n=261540) is on so you can pick up a G251 (http://www.geckodrive.com/product.aspx?c=3&i=14471) driver for $US49.

It would easily fit in your existing enclosure.
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on November 06, 2010, 06:20:27 PM
Looking good. Have you checked it changes direction if you press the opposite direction? (About all that's left to go wrong - mechanics excepted).

I doubt the driver will get that hot, if possible I'd build it into the box (mainly because I like stuff like that as self contained as possible).
Try running it for a bit and see how warm it gets.
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on November 06, 2010, 06:47:17 PM
tumutbound if I did not have one I would consider that  :thumbup:

kwackers I will check tomorrow I think I had the motor going both ways actually I'm sure I did as I increased the backlash compensation to see what it did and it was noticeable in one direction and that only affects one direction right ?

I was thinking about cutting out the back of the box so that the driver heat sink could poke through and seal it up with a bit of silicone but after playing around today the only thing that got warm slightly was the motor
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on November 10, 2010, 04:56:06 PM
Got some aluminium tube today for the stepper motor mount I'm thinking about machining the ends that fit the motor and table out of separate pieces and threading them into the tube and securing them with locktite
(http://i602.photobucket.com/albums/tt102/ja2onx/0bd148f1.jpg)

I found this while browsing another site it's a 20x4 character LCD with extra large digits ( great if you have poor eye sight )
Would not fit the controler pcb but may be of use to someone
http://www.mcustore.com/displays-i-o-boards/56-20x4-large-digit-character-lcd.html
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: cidrontmg on November 12, 2010, 06:51:14 PM
Hi j45on, others,
I“m also building one of these, got finally all the electronic components, still missing the stepper + mechanicals. I will mount the electronics to an Eddystone cast ali box, looks like this. The keypad has ready printed symbols, so it won“t look nearly as nice as yours. But I guess I can live with those.
The bombproof box is so far otherwise empty. I“ll use stripboard and solder some components during the weekend.
 :wave:
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on November 13, 2010, 12:08:27 PM
Looking good Cidrontmg
That is one bomb proof looking box  :thumbup:
Keep us posted with updates
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: Bogstandard on November 16, 2010, 03:29:00 PM
OK, I have read all the posts, and I even got totally baffled by the very first one.

I am OK with all the cutting out bits, hacking lumps of metal up and soldering thingies up, but how on earth am I supposed to make the boards and get all the components together when I am completely at a loss about them. It is 30 years since I was 'into' elektronical bit's n bobs, so you can understand how far behind I am.

I really need to make something like this to help me because of the very limited power I have in my hands, and I have power drives on everything except for the RT.

Does anyone do a full electronics and bits kit for this control box, or do I have to succumb to the lesser and more expensive Division Master.


Bogs
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: j45on on November 17, 2010, 07:48:51 AM
I have still not finished this yet my standoff's have still not arrived
I did run it for a while at the weekend and the only thing that got hot was the
voltage regulator it needs a bigger heat sink I think.

Bogs how much would you want I could build the board for you ? I have some spare components.
Or would you need a built unit ?
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: Bogstandard on November 17, 2010, 09:22:15 AM
Hi Jason,

If you look at the second picture for the division master, as a kit. It doesn't need to have the main box cutout or any assembly. Just a means of me having together in one place all the bits required to make it and it's power supply.

http://medw.co.uk/wiki/index.php?page=DivisionMaster

It is such a daunting task for me now just to find a few item of electronics that I can remember and understand about. When you guys are on about writing to pics etc, and which bits to buy from where, my mind goes totally blank because of all the new technology that I just don't understand.

I was going to buy the Divisionmaster kit, but John Stevenson recommended the one you lads are building because not only does it work out cheaper, supposedly it has better functionality.

BTW I am not expecting charity, I am quite willing to pay for the help to achieve what I need.

I now know what you lads who can't reach the higher levels of machining feel like, it is the same feeling for me when it comes to things like this. :scratch: :bang:


John


ADDED

Or, if someone can supply me with complete details of what to order and from where, plus how to get hold of a board, ready blown pic and overlays, plus anything else that is needed, and where to obtain them from.
I don't know if it makes any difference to the component list, but I want it for a 6" rotary table, which supposedly uses a larger stepper than one for a 4".
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: John Stevenson on November 25, 2010, 06:27:16 PM
Bogs,
If you are willing to use an old laptop or desktop computer I can supply everything except the table.
It will be a box with mains plug on, USB plug for the computer and a lead out going to a stepper motor.
You start the computer, start the program and this is what you see.

(http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/rotabcontrol.jpg)

Does basically all a Division master does but not hand held.

John S.

Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: spuddevans on November 26, 2010, 02:15:13 AM
I know I'm coming in a little late ( as usual :wack: ) but I just wanted to throw my hat into the fray and offer to get and burn the pic for you John. I cant make PCB's yet, but I guess I could botch something together out of stripboard if it was needed.



Tim
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: kwackers on November 26, 2010, 05:36:12 AM
And back on track...

How many people would be interested in a 'kit' of parts? I've only done some preliminary research but I'm guessing the components would run to around £15-£20 (no connectors, presume soldering wires to the board edges for connections) with pre-programmed PIC's, and with say 10 people on board PCB's would run an extra £10-£15.

On top of this to complete the whole thing you need:-
A keypad (£13 ish from Farnell if you used the one I use), a box (say around £10).

Then depending on what you were driving - but lets say a typical 4"-8" rotary or lathe head or similar dividing head, then:-
Stepper motor (say £25), along with a stepper motor driver (typically around £35) and a power supply (say £25).

Some savings can be made, you can find cheaper drivers or even make one (say using a L298/L297 pair for around a tenner), laptop power supplies (18v plus) are ideal for driving this and can often be found v.cheap or even free and a bit of digging around may find savings on the keypad (or you can make your own) and stepper motor.
Finally you can build it on strip board saving the cost of the PCB, although the more people were interested in PCB's the cheaper they get - e.g. aprox £100 for 10 and £250 for 100 (assuming my original PCB design can be used).

Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: Spurry on November 26, 2010, 06:12:50 AM
Not sure where the queue starts, but would like to put my name down please.

Pete
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: BillTodd on November 26, 2010, 07:01:19 AM
Hi Kwackers,

You can put me down for a  kit, or just a PCB if that'll help. 


Bogs - I'm sure young J45on will do a fine job, but if you need someone to solder a kit together, give us a shout.


OT:

I've been browsing most of the engineering forums for a while now, and it is remarkable, out of the hundreds of semi-anonymous posters, how just a few names stand out as the advice and assistant providers. Bogs here is one of them - treat him well or bemoan his loss!

Bill
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: slowcoach on November 26, 2010, 07:35:57 AM
Hi Kwackers, put me down for one please,if you decide to offer them, I would certainly be up for a kit  :thumbup: A proper printed PCB would be very helpful to ease assembley :dremel:

Cheers
Rob  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: HS93 on November 26, 2010, 07:44:34 AM
yes me to a full kit or whatever you can do

thanks for your offer

Peter
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: z3t4 on November 26, 2010, 07:48:49 AM
Jeez! A bloke spends a few days away with his Jaffa cakes and returns to carnage!!
I got this lot from Farnell in the summer, waiting for the cold weather. The part numbers work,
* means I had some in a bucket somewhere. And the formatting's crap. Sorry a bit better now :beer:.
Part Number     Value Farnell      Qty     Notes
C1, C233pF11417612
C3, C4100nF14693104Decoupling -- spread liberally.
C5470uF 25v elec   94512001
VR110k Preset16898441Contrast control
R1 - R410k*4Keypad pull downs
IC118F45297622301Pre-programmed with firmware.
IC2780517555081And small heatsink.
40 pin IC Socket42856691For PIC 18F452
Xtal10Mhz16118561
Keypad4 x 4 11712241(or 16 buttons)
LCD 4line x 20*
PCB Or stripboard construction.
8 Pin SIL socket12188691Only if using Farnell keypad.
Case
Power supplyTo suit stepper/stepper controller.
Beeper
LS1Passive sounder11925131
Q3BC33715743791NPN transistor (500mA IC)
R54k7**
D2BYV2714693711Any fast switch diode
Sense/Ack
D1BYV2714693711Any fast switch diode
Q1, Q2BC33715743792NPN transistor (500mA IC)
R8, R94k7**
R6,7,10,1110k**

HTH

John
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: tumutbound on November 26, 2010, 08:09:34 AM
I  created a component list with Mouser (http://mouser.com/) a couple of weeks ago.. Total cost of everything except PCB is approx $US43 - plus shipping.
I don't know if Mouser is an option for UK based purchase but I can share the project file if anyone is interested.
I can do the same with Digikey if there's interest.
Update: $23 of that cost was for a 20x4 LCD. You can pick these up from a number of online sources for $10 - $12

As far as PCB go, I use pcbcart.com (http://pcbcart.com) which is a Chinese based manufacturer. Prices are pretty good e.g. 20 off 100mm x 150mm double sided boards, silk screen cost $US144. Turn around of 12 days.  Artwork must be provided as  Gerber files.
There are also a couple of places that specialise in prototyping boards i.e. 10 boards, 100mm x 100mm double sided $US28 plus shipping. Add an extra $US10 if you want blue boards.  ::)
I haven't checked the size of the driver board  so don't know how useful this information is.
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: Brass_Machine on November 26, 2010, 08:37:04 AM
I am not happy with direction this started to take. I am glad to see that it has gotten back on track.

So let's cool the hostilities. We are all adults here. This is Jason's thread... I am removing the posts that do not add to this thread.

Eric
Title: Re: Another 4" CNC rotary table
Post by: Bluechip on November 26, 2010, 10:22:29 AM
Bogs,
If you are willing to use an old laptop or desktop computer I can supply everything except the table.
It will be a box with mains plug on, USB plug for the computer and a lead out going to a stepper motor.
You start the computer, start the program and this is what you see.

(http://www.stevenson-engineers.co.uk/files/rotabcontrol.jpg)

Does basically all a Division master does but not hand held.

John S.

PS Send photo of hairy arse.

Last line of this looks a bit  .. er ... surreal now Eric   :lol:

Dave BC