MadModder
Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: cedge on April 30, 2009, 10:28:28 AM
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Winter is past and the shop is much more environmentally friendly, so the time is here to begin a project I've been studying ever since I bought the "Two Shop Masters" book at cabin fever. The book has plans for a number of engines, but this one caught my eye, so it jumped to the top of my build list. I've never messed with small IC engines until now so I'm curious as to how the project will go. You're invited to come a long as I attempt to take on the "Victorian", designed by the late Philip Duclos.
The project began with a 4 1/2 inch piece of 6061 aluminum, faced off to length and counter bored on one end. It was them moved to the mill and two flats were added to create a set of datum points for positioning the work piece as things progressed. The piece was turned over in the vise and marked for a hole which has to be bored perpendicular to the length of the work piece. once this hole was center drilled, the work piece was moved to the lathe. A threaded hole was also placed on the "back side" which was supposed to help secure the piece to a face plate when it returned to the lathe.
Things didn't quite work out that way due to the length of the slots in my new face plate. The bolt hole couldn't be used if the work piece was to be centered on the center drilled hole. A few minutes of head scratching was under taken and a simple strap was the solution I came up with. Not extremely elegant, but at least it worked....(grin)
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/setup.jpg)
Since I only have two hands and the setup required more, I enlisted the tail stock and a dead center to help hold things while they were secured and rough centered. The dead center was fitted into the center drilled hole to get things close and to apply pressure as I was securing the work piece. This got things close, but the engine will have a crank that is suspended on both ends with close tolerance sintered brass bushings. This means things have to be dead nuts or binding will become a problem... especially since the two support points are going to be located in separate and independent components.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/dead-center.jpg)
Once things were close to being centered on the center drilled hole, it was time to get everything where it needed to be. Since it is rather difficult to put a DTI on an irregular shaped object, I had to find a way to get a measure from a specific point of interest. In this case it was the center point of a somewhat tricky multiple step boring operation that has to run perpendicular through the length of the engine body.
To achieve this, I employed my friendly "wiggler", mounted in the tail stock and mated to the center drilled hole. The wiggling motion gave me a fair visual reference of how far out things were, but it's almost impossible to spot which way the work piece needs to move.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/wiggler-tailstock.jpg)
In order to get the center drilled hole perfectly centered, I used a DTI and measured the ball at the end of the wiggler. First indications were showing about .030 run total indicated run out (TIR). With a few gentle taps of the brass hammer, things quickly moved to within a couple of thousandths of the lathe centerline. The last couple of thousandths were a ticklish bit of adjustment but the final reading indicated a TIR of .0005. That should be more than close enough to work.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/wiggler-dti.jpg)
The engine body is now ready to be drilled and bored. Lots of parts yet to make, so this promises to be a long thread.
Steve
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Ahhhh very good. :clap: I bought that book 2 years ago only for the plans of that engine. I will be watching this thread closely!
Eric
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Steve Very interesting :thumbup:
looking forward to seeing the engine develop.
Stew
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Eric
After having the chance to look through both of the Duclos books, I too have become quite the fan of his work. After trying his "curved flywheel" instructions, I quickly learned that he is not to be ignored. He had the instructions distilled down to their essence.... no more or less information than is required to do the job properly. Ignore a step and you'll come to a dead end in a hurry. I really hope this one turns out well. I'll be quite disappointed if it doesn't.
Steve
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I'm going to enjoy watching this one Steve, got a picture of what it looks like finished? I did google but the chap seems to have built many engine :bow:
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A photo can be seen at http://216.197.127.227/Gallery/exhibitorpages/kipp.html . Third photo down the page
Steve
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That's a nice looking engine thanks for showing, it will make a real interesting build
Stew
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I`ve no idea what you are building Steve. ::)
But, I really love your wobbler/ dti set up! :headbang:
I`m watching........ :thumbup:
David D
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Ok Steve,
I'm interested in where you are going with this one... I haven't and do not intend to see what the original looks like... I'll wait for you to finish before I do that :)
I just like it that way :thumbup:
If it comes anything close to your other engines this should be quite a thread :headbang:
Ralph.
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After a couple of days delay due to soccer games and a local engine show, I managed to get back in the shop today, for a few minutes.
The work piece will eventually become a contoured body for the engine which will house the crank and piston rod. This required, what was for me, a bit of a challenging bore cut. The first cut was your typical straight through bored measuring 1.125 in diameter. The outer cut will soon accept a plate with a "oilite" (sintered) bronze bushing and measures 1.8125. Neither were difficult, although the larger diameter was an interrupted cut.
The challenge came in when the third cut was made. The cut had to be centered within the work piece, it would be 15/16 inch (.9375) wide and 1.975 (1 /78) inches in diameter. OH yeah..... it would be made completely in the blind with only a couple of witness marks and the dials to guide me. NOOOOOO Sweat....right?
The delay getting back in the shop gave me time to do some mental machining and by the time I began I felt like I had a fair grip on the procedure. The photo below shows the completed cut.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/bore-complete.jpg)
The recently acquired boring bars offer me the ability to mount HSS cutters at 45° or at 90° and are significantly more rigid than the cheap carbide set I bought so long ago. The added plus of being able to easily adjust the cutter depth was indespensible for this particular job. The huge honking tool holder seems to help dampen vibration a bit.... even if it looks funny.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/bore-bar.jpg)
Yeah... the cutter does look a little odd too. Duclos suggested the strange looking end grind to reduce chatter and it really did make a noticeable difference. The sides also have a tapered cutting edge which made for encountering the side walls of the cavity with very little chatter. The double edge is there because the cutter would be running to corners in both directions of travel. The "cupid bow" end minimized tool contact and further reduced chatter. This is an idea I'll be experimenting with when doing other types of bore cuts.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/bore-cutter.jpg)
For those considering doing a Duclos project, be prepared to follow his instructions to the letter. After having taken on this, my second of his tutorials, it has become obvious that he has boiled procedure down to it's essence. He offers up no wasted steps and you skip one at your own peril. He makes things as easy and common sense as they can be made. Case in point....
Since the cut is being made in the blind, he suggested using tape and a couple of witness marks to keep you in control of things. He also takes you step by step while making sure you properly zero the dials, taking into consideration the adjustments to compensate for the tool size. In short, he's been there, done that and doesn't want to abuse a newbie, but he is never condescending about it.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/bore-tape.jpg)
From here the work piece will be transfered back the mill for a couple of steps before it comes back to the lathe for shaping.
There were some concerns about the face plate setup. It proved to be quite stable, however, I was still quite cautious about my proximity to it and the lathe was run no higher than 180 RPM to make sure it all stayed stable. This was my first time using a face plate and I must admit it won't be my last choice anymore. It certainly offers quite a wide range of possible setups. More tools in the arsenal...eh?
Steve
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Steve,
That is a very interesting shape on the boring bar, I can only assume it is designed to act like a round nosed turning tool, but multiplied by two, to give a progressive cut as it is fed and leave behind a nice surface finish. I can definitely see where it would reduce chatter after the initial plunge. I have seen a similar style used on parting tools, but with sharp outside edges.
If the man says do it, then you should. Even though maybe a bit terse, he has been there before and is trying to help out in difficult situations that are not normally encountered, allowing the engine to be built when someone has limited technique knowledge. You can always do a bit of shape changing if you want to put your own mark on it at a later time.
I can't wait to see the next bit.
John
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That's looking good Steve, Interesting ideas there.... :ddb:
I shall be watching this one develop.....nice idea with the tape, some joe scratched marks in the paint on my S&B lathe to do this job.... :doh:
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Very nice write up Steve and a very interesting bit of machining,
I like your comment:-
"The delay getting back in the shop gave me time to do some mental machining and by the time I began I felt like I had a fair grip on the procedure. The photo below shows the completed cut".
Mental machine is something I do all the time gets me into trouble with the Boss, you know how it goes:- Boss- "shall we go and visit my Sister" - no answer - "is there something else you want to do" no answer - "well if you don't want to speak to me I don't know what I've done wrong" - "ho what were you saying I wasn't listening " :hammer: :wack: :hammer: :wack: :lol:
Back to your machining I've seen that forked tool recomended before I think it was in one of Tubal Cains book he called it a snakes tounge.
I was wondering:- in doing the recess you can't see what your doing as things a round the corner would you get a better vew if you ran the machine in reveres and had the tool on the other side this way the action would be facing you.
Have fun
Stew
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Managed to get the mill work done and then moved the engine body back to the lathe to begin shaping it. Contouring began with lots of rough cutting to get some generalized dimensions. I chose to free hand the contours, rather than sticking totally to Duclos's stylization. This proved to be an interesting exercise in both patience and eye hand coordination. To avoid any sharp edges ort corners, I used a rounded end cutter that is used for everyday roughing cuts.
As you can see.....things sometimes have to get to looking pretty bad before they get better....(grin)
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/contour-roughing.jpg)
Here is the work piece as the foot of the engine body began to take shape. Notice the roughing cuts..... not pretty and a bit brutal, but they did move a lot of metal fast.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/contour-roughing1.jpg)
Here the contour of the lower half is beginning to take on its final shape. The roughing cuts were refined a bit and then I broke out the files to fine tune things. A bit of sand paper was then used to remove the file marks. The base end was contoured first since the other end will be rounded and will no longer lend itself to being chucked in the lathe. The flat surfaces of the base will chuck just fine.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/contour-roughing2.jpg)
Lots to do. Gears and bushings to order, a crank to turn and a platform and support to shape before I begin the upper engine section and governor. One perfect part at a time.... one perfect part at a time.... one perf....
Steve
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Lovely stuff Steve, that sure is a nice seductive and tactile curve on that part. Makes you just want to stroke it.
Many people are scared to death of trying to hand contour pieces like you have, but you have shown it to perfection. A little time, plus one eye on the chuck for safety, and the other on the job in hand, can produce wonderful works of art, and this is getting back to the basics of turning, before toolposts et al. Plus it produces the finished article a lot quicker than people realise.
When I show some of my own work off, people can't believe that it was turned by hand, and expect it to be produced on a CNC machine.
I can see this engine becoming an absolute stunner, with your eye for detail and artistic flair.
John
BTW, if Chris is reading this, have a look at Steves' toolpost, it is the same type as Arc Euro do for your lathe.
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Thanks for the support, guys. I'm having a lot of fun so far and the challenges have been part of it.
Stew
I looked at the idea of running in reverse, but the tool would still have been out of sight. The well was nearly an inch inside the outer surface and disappearing behind the flange it was creating. There was barely enough clearance to use a long pair of needle nosed pliers to dig out the rapidly collecting swarf. It was pretty much Hobson's Choice, so I did it the way the book suggested. It wasn't that bad a cut, although it was a little "awkard". I just had to trust the dials since there was no readily apparent way to get in there to measure the well. Luckily, the C4 lathe is a good deal more trustworthy than my old 7x14 in that respect.
John
As you've already guessed, I like things with an organic look... and yea... I've already found myself stroking the surface to confirm what my eyes were showing me. It definitely has that nice organic feel. I too have been called a liar for claiming to have hand machined my last engine project. A local CNC guy looked me in the eye and told me those flywheels were impossible to make manually, and with his 30 some years in the trade, he knew for sure that I had them CNC'd. I just smiled and said nothing... not wanting to endanger my best source of scrap aluminum.
Once I sorted out the best way to make stepped cuts predictably, the contouring was not a bad bit of work. The tough part is working over the open holes with a file. That has proven to be a little tricky. I'm currently using steel wool and sand paper to remove the last of the marks where the file bounced and left some nasty cross hatch marks. Tomorrow, I swap ends and try for a pair of much tighter radii.
Steve
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Now that's what I like...... :clap:
That there has a fantastic shape :thumbup: (still no idea what the original looks like either.... I'm quite looking forward to seeing the comparison at the end :))
It's great what a man can do when he just lets his hands do the work :headbang:
Very much looking forward to the rest :ddb:
Ralph.
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Nice Job Steve.
I have problems getting nice smooth contour like that I think it must be my eye sight I wear veryfocul safety glasses in the shop it may be down to them.
Good work getting that recess done as well it souded like a real tricky job, I take it you like the C4 I've got a new lathe on my long term shopping list and the C4 is one of my options.
Look forward to your next post
Cheers
Stew
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Steve, just wanted to let you know there's another watching this build with keen interest.... :nrocks:
Looking great so far :thumbup:
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This is cool! Being within driving distance I expect to see it in person one of these days. :thumbup:
Is there a reason you couldn't make the holes by boring on the mill rather than turning?
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Today saw the engine base contouring completed and the crank bearing plate fitted. The rest of it was mostly touching up the final shape and polishing out tool marks. Not a lot of excitement, but a nice feeling of accomplishment. Below are the front and rear views. If you look closely, you can also see the opening for the connecting rod in the top of the base.
Steve
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/contour-rear.jpg)
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/contour-front.jpg)
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I'm reserving comment for when the engine is done and running, but I just have to comment on the nice finish on that part Steve.
All I can say is WOW. :jaw:
Bernd
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Coor Blimey Steve what a shiner.
Great Job
Stew
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oooooooooooooooooooooooooooo........... Shiny :headbang:
I like that Steve, I like that a lot :thumbup:
Ralph.
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Now about the top picture.
Just who's ashes are inside it?
Bogs
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I think that's quite an achievement by hand, looks very well finished :clap:
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Just who's ashes are inside it?
Funny. I thought it looked like a trophy.
Nice curves, ought to be a very pretty engine.
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Just who's ashes are inside it?
Funny. I thought it looked like a trophy.
Nice curves, ought to be a very pretty engine.
Me too! :wave:
David D
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lovely piece of art there :thumbup:
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Awww shucks gang... I just like my metal to shine a little....LOL. It really doesn't add that much more time or effort to go the extra distance. Besides... with abrasives on the shelf ranging from coarse cut files to sandpaper with less than 1.0 micron grit on hand, I gotta use it somewhere.
lovely piece of art there
At the end of the day, isn't that really what these engine builds are about? A wee bit of unique art to be shared with others?
John...
The ashes might be mine..... if it doesn't run after all the work...(grin) You are right on one point. Anyone can do the hand contouring if they just get past the "can't be done" thought process. It's a lot restrictive than hitting a mark at .0005 and the results are a finished item that is "yours" from end to end. Making it uniquely "mine" is a whole lot of my motivation.
<OT comment....> The DRO's I recently bought out of Hong Kong are a godsend. They've made this project much easier and enjoyable than it might have been. When the drawing says put the hole "here" the 5 decimal places gives a lot of confidence that "here" is exactly where you are.... and no more doubts about center lines....(big grin). I'm also hooked on the Bolt Circle function..... sssswwweeeeeeeett. No need to set up the RT.... in fact I was done with the first 4 holes before I could have even set up the RT. </OT comment....>
Steve
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Very VEry Very Nice!!!
I too found when making some of the more.. organic shapes, roughing them in and cleaning up with files and paper is a good option.
I ended up buying a small set of files that have 1/4" handles. They work really nice in removins a tiny amount of metal and cleaning small irregularities from a surface.
Realllly nice body there.
I looked at the pics of his engines.. and they are really nice.. I cant wait to see this baby come together.
Scott
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:jaw: :bugeye:Damn Steve, Looks like you've been working. Coming along very nicely, So cool to see you building an IC. What is used for the ignition?
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Ok... more soccer games, mother's day and then it was back in the shop to have some more fun. The "Victorian" has a separate bearing support which is spaced some distance from the main engine body. The control mechanics, such as the governor, cam and gears occupy this space, along with the flywheel.
Duclos offered up a drawing for this support, but the engine I see in my mind's eye wanted something a little less busy while offering a clean view of the flywheel though the support. As is the case with most things I build, changes begin to creep into the design so that the finished engine is "mine". Bogstandard once brought this into focus when he told me to never doggedly follow the drawing, but to use it as a spring board. Basically, the critical dimensions are to be respected , but changes are fair game anywhere that they won't effect proper operation of the finished engine. This idea fits my creative process, so no apologies if my engine is not a "true Duclos Victorian".... eh?
The process began with several sketched ideas to test the style I'd want. I used a piece of aluminum of a similar width to that which I'd be using to machine the piece and drew my ideas with a pencil. They ranged from more complex than the original to quite a bit more simplified. The sketch shown below won out in the end. Even then it was to change in details as I watched it emerging from the metal.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/support-sketch.jpg)
The next step was to lay out the work piece. I did this in the vise, using the DRO and the wiggler point to locate the critical points such as the bearing location and screw holes for the ignition points. The circular lines were then marked out accommodate these points while creating the look I wanted.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/support-layout.jpg)
Once the mark up was complete, I used the 5/8 end mill to cut the various radii, giving me escape spaces for the smaller end mill I'd be using to cut the circular lines.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/support-drilled.jpg)
Since a lot of metal needed to be removed and being a bit on the lazy side, I used the carbide saw and trimmed away the excess metal. This cut down on the number of passes the cuts would require, which is more than a blessing when using a manual rotary table
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/support-trimmed.jpg)
The center point of the main curves were drilled 3/16 to fit the dowel pins I use to index things on my handy dandy manual rotary/indexing/rounding table. After centering the table in the vise, the work piece was placed on the dowel pin and clamped down atop a two pieces of lathe tool blanks. These are ideal for use as spacers and give plenty of clearance for the end mill to penetrate or cut below the lower edge of the work.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/support-rt.jpg)
The photo below shows the work piece after the external and internal curves were cut. The piece is centered on the upper head of the support, where the bushing will eventually fit. Light cuts were used to keep control of things and to get the best finish possible so that final edge sanding and filing would hopefully be minimal.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/support-rt1.jpg)
The plans call for using 1/2 inch aluminum for the support, but one of the changes I wanted to incorporate was a flared "foot" at the bottom. I chose to use a piece of 3/4 in. metal to allow the change. Since I intend to hide the attaching screws beneath the base, there was no need to give them a flat puchase. This allowed me to use a 1/2 in radius router bit to cut a .125 deep contour at the bottom. making the edge come to a sharp edge which would easily blend into the base.
The photo below shows the piece after the contour had been cut and the flycutting operation was in progress to resize the majority of the metal to the called for 1/2 inch thickness. This process allowed me to smoothly transition from a flat surface to the flared foot with a minimum of hand work.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/support-flycut.jpg)
Here is the support, shown during a quick mock up to check elevations. I'll be installing the bronze bushing once the final tool mark removal is completed. You can clearly see the flare and the "foot blending" idea. It might not suit everyone, but I think this piece is a step in the right direction if I'm going to personalize the engine anyway.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/support-mockup.jpg)
Steve
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Nicely Done Steve I like that shape a lot
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Stew
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Shaping up beautifully Steve! :thumbup:
David D
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Steve,
As I have told you ever since I started to communicate with you, and seeing how you progressed into machining, you WILL become the design force to be reckoned with.
I now realise my days are well and truly over when it comes to design flair, I am like an amateur, hacking things out with an axe. So with a bowed head, I am hanging up my spurs and taking up matchstick models from now on. :(
Not really, but I have realised that my forte now rests in engine design rather than artistic design after having every bit of work I have ever done being palled into insignificance by the work you are showing here.
So from now on, I will humble myself to a new master, and wonder at what you will come up with next. :bow: :bow:
John
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Blimey Steve, that's coming along with some speed....looks very seductive I have to say.... :clap:
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Steve,
Nice work. Really like the way your doing it.
Bernd
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Lovely stuff Steve,
To get the work to shine like that, there musn't be many machining marks in it anyway! Also, the camera usually makes things look worse in my experience. You must be chuffed with that. :ddb: :ddb:
Nick
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No arguments from me on that bearing support. Nice work indeed.
Eric
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Thanks again for the encouragement, gang. The feed back is appreciated very much.
Boogster...
You'll always carry the title of "King of Bling"....(grin). Now get back on your head and build... and stop playing with the matches. Thanks for the invaluable flow background of advice and counsel. You do make me look better than I am.
Nick
Getting the metal to shine is not really that difficult, but it does take a little attentive patience and some elbow grease. My current camera is pretty unforgiving..... so yes.... that surface really is that smooth and already a very bitch to keep clean. My youngest grandson loves its fun house mirror effect. He stood in front of it for about an hour, bobbing up and down, to vary his reflection. Fun to hear someone else maniacally giggling in the shop...LOL
Looks like the crank and con rod will be the next major component. That should be fun since I normally build a multi piece crank and this one will be one piece.
Steve
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Well I have to say, after reading through this thread, WOW!! What a beautiful finish you've got. :thumbup: :clap: :thumbup: :clap:
I think that there is soon going to be a shortage of polishing mops as we all go out to try and polish all our projects.
You certainly set a high standard for the rest of us,
Tim
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Well Steve, You're certainly not letting yourself down :thumbup:
I expected something nice since the water pressure engine was a stunner!
You certainly have an eye for the flowing shapes :dremel:
Looking forward to seeing con rod and the crank!! 1 piece does look like an interesting excersise!
Ralph.
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Steve,
Came across the article in "The Homeshop Machinist". I thought I'd seen it somewere. Unfortunatley it's back in the black and white days of publishing. It looks like Philip used metal flack paint on his engine.
From what I've seen in the articles you've taken on quite a challenge with that engine. Best of luck to ya'. :thumbup:
Bernd
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Whew.... its been a good week. After visiting with John, Tom and John, the newly found gang of local model engine machinists, I was chuffed when got back in the shop on Thursday and began to tackle a job I'd never done, using some tools I hardly ever use and some new tricks yet to be discovered.
I needed a crank shaft and this Duclos guy said it needed to be a solid one piece version. To make things even more challenging, I've decided to add a couple of items to his design, one of which the motor will need to drive. This meant instead of ending up with an abbreviated "L" shaped crank, I'd be making a more difficult but more conventional -U- type with a one inch throw. Did I mention that one length of the shaft on this thing is nearly a full 6 inches long or that it has to align within .001 across 3 different bushings?
Since I had exactly no hot roll flat stock, I wound up using a 1 inch piece of Drill Rod....Silver Steel, for you UK guys. The long shafts would have to be turned to .375 +.002/-.000. so we're talking seemingly endless interrupted cuts over a nearly 10 inch steel rod, with no going over the mark allowed. No pressure..... for a first time attempt..... eh?
After a bit of head scratching, I broke out the dreaded 4 jaw chuck. In fairness, I only dreaded the 4 jaw because it was so difficult to change over when I was using the mini lathe. I'd learned any number of work around tricks to avoid the hassles of installation. The new C4 lathe has adequate room to easily access the chuck so that excuse was no longer valid. I decided to conquer my bias and get used to using the darned thing.
It took a bit of experimentation to get a feel for how much the jaws moved when adjusted, but my trusty Dial indicator and DTI soon had the 1 inch Drill Rod centered and then properly offset for cutting the specified dimensions. The cutting began with the long 6 inch shaft section. I've seen photos of any number of crashed crankshaft projects, so I wanted all the support I could get on the chuck end of things. That long shaft looked much longer when the cutting tool began to draw first blood.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/crank-first.jpg)
Interrupted cuts can be a little unpredictable, even when working in close to the chuck. Step out a ways from that safe haven and things can go pear shaped real fast and real bad if you get too aggressive. I kept the cuts fairly light until the interrupt was down to a minimum. I can tell you there was a sigh of relief when the cutter stopped thumping and began cutting a nice smooth 1/2 inch round shaft.
It's always good to spot a moment where things are still fixable. This photo shows just such a moment. With plenty of metal yet to be removed to reach the .375 goal, I stopped off the machine and broke out the Micrometer to check the setup for any taper. All was well with a measured taper of .0013. Still time to make a correction if needed, however I chose to leave the problem for the polishing stage that would come later.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/crank-shaft1.jpg)
Once the long section was turned down to dimension, the short section near the chuck was undertaken. It was a much more stable work zone and the cut went quickly. I learned that the dials on this lathe are a lot more trust worthy than my smaller one. Less backlash and the additional mass greatly add to the confidence levels.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/crank-shaft2.jpg)
Once removed from the lathe, a quick trip to the bad saw removed the large end pieces so the shaft could be test fitted to the Engine body and the support. This also allowed me to prove my modifications would still work in the blind well described earlier in thus thread. The good news is all things are as the should be. The crank lobes have close but adequate clearance and the two bushings are dead on.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/crank-test.jpg)
The next cut began with me holding my breath. The interrupted cuts were taken in light passes until things began to decrease in violence. The thin shafts were not making me feel any better about my chances of success, but I kept cutting, thinking each pass could be the one that turned things into a pretzel. Here is my solution to the problem.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/crank-journel.jpg)
Since the shafts on this crank were so long, I chose to use a trick I learned on this board some time ago. Rather than try to trust the project to the 4 jaw and end up with no way to support the long section, I made up an offset turning jig so that I could work close to the chuck and still keep the other end supported. this would give me a bit more stability which would hopefully prevent a crash and burn. I would be working within a confined space, not too different from doing a cut off and making some potentially nasty interrupted cuts with a lot less metal keeping things together.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/crank-jig.jpg)
The jig was made on the mill and the hole was placed at .500 from the center. The screws were added to lock things down and worked like a champ. The long end was supported with a similar jig which I center drilled to give the center a purchase and prevent any chance of the end whipping about under the stress of the thumping and bumping such a cut creates. The screws have small brass tabs to prevent the shaft from being scarred.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/crank-jig2.jpg)
Once again the loss of the infernal thumping signaled that the cutter was now past the gap and cutting a nice smooth round. The sense of relief was strong as I began to move in on the desired dimension of .375.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/crank-journel2.jpg)
A bit of filing edges and some clean up on the lathe were then the order of the hour. The crank looked cool inside the engine body and proved to be completely usable as modified.... so far....(grin).
Steve
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So very well described Steve.
I was holding my breath for you....... ::)
Blummin well done! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
David D
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Now I can see why you have been burning the midnight oil Steve.
Very well executed indeed. :clap:
John
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Blimey, that was a brave challenge, well done and nice tricks there :ddb:
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Well done that man nicely done and described
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Stew
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Thanks again guys. It's good to have some company along on this journey. I can't take credit for the whole jig idea as it was posted on the HMEM board long ago. My only addition was the support at the tail stock end. It got me past the alligators, so I think it works...(grin).
I'm now cogitating the mods to the con rod that the extra section will require. I'm hoping there is enough room in that blind crank chamber to let me get away with what I'm hoping will work. Stay tuned....LOL
Steve
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Nicely done :clap:
Can't wait to see more!
Eric
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I was wondering if a round similar to the tailstock jig would work with a steady rest to support it closer to the crank?
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Kvom
With a slight mod, I'd think it would work fine. The cut out for the screws would have to be eliminated. I see you're thinking....(grin).
Steve
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I'm still simmering the ideas on the con rod, but it hasn't slowed progress on the engine. There are plenty of parts to make while I'm finalizing it's design.
Having met some local model machinists of recent, I learned one of them likes cutting gears. I approached him about the gears for this engine and he's agreed to cut them if I supply him with required gear blanks. Hopefully we'll get together later this week and I can learn a bit about it.
The instructions for the Victorian give information based on ordered gears and fitting a cam ring to them, however Duclos hinted at making a single piece cam/gear if once could cut one's own gears. With that in mind, I took off in that direction.
The gear blanks were first turned on the lathe to match the given specs. I chose to use brass instead of steel for visual contrast against the aluminum. I needed one with 56 teeth at 1 13/16 diameter and another at 15/16 diameter with 28 teeth.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/gear-blank-lathe.jpg)
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/gear-blanks.jpg)
After carefully hitting the required diameter for both sizes, the larger blank was moved top the mill and securely placed on the manual rotary table. Now how does one cut a 247 degree arc on a manual indexing tool? DRO to the rescue. The piece was centered and the first cam ramp was to be milled at the "Zero" angle on a given radius. To do this, I asked the DRO to create a bolt circle with a beginning point of 0°. Once the first ramp point was milled, I then asked for another bolt circle with a beginning point of 247° at the same radius. I couldn't have asked for easier and I learned something new.
The results can be seen in the photo below. The points were gently milled to round the edges and a file smoothed it all out. A roller will follow the inner circle and will actuate a lever when it rides up on the raised came section. This will eventually control the exhaust valve on the engine
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/gear-cam-view.jpg)
Again, everything gets a test fitting. The bushings will be getting trimmed and once the teeth are on the gear blanks they will mesh for alignment. Things seem to be moving relatively quickly on this project right now, but I'm keeping all my fingers crossed.
Steve
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/gear-test-fit1.jpg)
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Steve,
Do you think you could put something next to the engine so that we can get some idea of the size please.
John
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John
Sure thing guy. Add another 2 .75 inches to the top and you get an idea of the cylinder as well. Just began cutting cast iron on the lathe and all is going well. It really cuts quite differently from the steel I've always cut and dear god is it ever messy stuff. With luck, I'll fit the cylinder core to the base tomorrow.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/size-coke.jpg)
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This is very nice work :thumbup: enjoying the post very much.
Thanks
Stew
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This is very nice work :thumbup: enjoying the post very much.
Where's the "me too" smiley? I am really enjoying your work, it is stunningly beautiful. :clap: :thumbup: :clap: :thumbup:
Tim
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Thanks Steve,
I didn''t realise it was that large. It sure will look impressive when finished.
John
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Thanks Steve,
I didn''t realise it was that large. It sure will look impressive when finished.
John
:lol:
Steve make sure you get all that fine gray dust from the cast iron up. It makes an awful mess. Ive heard so many times from people selling machinery "Its never ran cast iron", I enjoy machining it if it is consistent. That is Durabar you're using for the cylinder correct? It is looking great.
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Thanks John... thats what all the girls tell me.... :thumbup: It gets bigger each time I play with it too.... :headbang:
Tim
It is indeed Durabar and I'm enjoying working with it. If not for the fact that it gets all over everything I'd probably use it more often. Boring out the cylinder was great..... good smooth cuts great finish and no taper in the bore. The only challenge was in power feeding the boring bar into a 2.5 inch deep blind hole....LOL. I'd have finished the cylinder this evening if we hadn't had to keep the grandsons in their own home. Mom had a major scheduling breakdown so it was grandparents to the rescue.
I'll be breaking out the hones tomorrow and really slicking up the cylinder walls, then on to cutting the water jacket chamber and drilling the mounting holes. It should begin to start looking more like an engine after all that.
Steve
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Wow... Just wow... Stunning engine. :jaw:
Love the ideas with the crankshaft cutting...
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The Victorian project begins to take on the look of an engine as the cylinder is fitted to the base. The cylinder will be water cooled, so there will be a water jacket yet to be fitted to the outer flanges.
Turning the cylinder was pretty straight forward, although cutting the Durabar gray cast iron took a bit of experimenting to find out what the metal liked. I found a sharp HSS cutter and low RPM gave me the best results. Chatter was a bit of a bear in the confined area of the lower neck, but file finishing the cast iron was easy and rendered up a nice contour.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/cylinder-cut.jpg)
Even with a good set of boring bars, the bore of the cylinder will have tiny ridges that will create friction and wear on the piston rings. In order to prevent this, lapping the bore is a must. I used a softer metal for the lapping hone, in this case, copper being the metal of choice. The bore of the cylinder is .750 inches so the 5/8 copper plumbing pipe made a convenient sized lap and was long enough to give good control. It is an inexpensive section of repair pipe from the local Ace Hardware store and a handy source of copper for various other uses as well.
The abrasive I used is a metal polish containing microscopic grit called MAAS. I've used it for finish polishing metals ranging from aluminum and brass to cast iron and stainless with excellent results.
By running the lathe at about 400 RPM and keeping the lap moving at all times, the bore quickly smoothed out. The copper pipe felt as if the bore had huge ridges, even though none were visible. As these invisible ridges disappeared, the copper lap began to feel silky smooth, as I moved it back and forth within the bore. A thorough cleaning to remove any remaining grit followed and is a step not to be skipped.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/cylinder-lap.jpg)
Here is the final product of the lapping process. It took less than 10 minutes and will give the cast iron piston rings a nice even surface upon which to seat.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/cylinder-bore.jpg)
As I said before, its beginning to look a little more like an engine and less like a steam punk funeral urn...(grin)
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/cylinder-fit.jpg)
Steve
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Sweet!
I'd never thought about the lapping like that! I'll keep it in my head for a rainy day :thumbup:
It is looking a bit more like an engine, but a truely well styled one at that :dremel:
I think this is gonna look pretty special when you've finished Steve :beer:
Ralph.
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Lovely work Steve :beer:
CC
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Nicely done Steve! :clap:
David D
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Things have been moving along nicley and I'm learning all sorts of new things from this project. The Victorian requires a pair of spur gears with a ratio of 2:1. I considered several options to supply them and friends like Tim (Zuesrekining) graciously offered their help, if needed. The options ranged from a simple online order (to easy) to having a local friend cut them (involute cutters are damned expensive). I finally chose to cut my own gears using Duclos' instructions for single tooth cutting technique. Thanks go to George Seal for pointing me to the references in his first book.
I recently acquired a small rotary table, complete with an indexing plate, neither of which I've used until now. It's too small for much serious work, but the MT2 taper was perfect for using my tail stock drill chuck to hold a mandrel, so onto the mill table it went. Things were a little crowded with both the vise and the RT, but it was workable.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/gears-setup.jpg)
After cutting a practice gear in aluminum, it was time to get serious. The cam gear blank was mounted and the first cut was begun. It would require several passes of 56 cuts, so patience was the order of the day. The tiny cutter is shown mounted in the flat angle fly cutter I made up to hold the tool. The blank has just begun to receive the first round of cuts. The cutter mimics an involute cutter but is less critical than required for the high level of accuracy of what are rather expensive commercial cutters. (one quote was $120.00 for the needed pair)
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/gears-cutter.jpg)
As thing progressed, making the gears was proving to be feasible. The photo below shows the gear getting it's second pass. There were two gears to cut, one with 56 teeth and another with 28.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/gears-pass2.jpg)
The gears were on and off the mill several times for testing and then returned to fine tune the cuts. I mentioned patience.... the excitement sags a bit after 5 or 6 times around a 56 tooth gear. The routine of make a cut, reset the hole count scissors on the RT, lock out the indexing pin, count off the complete turns and then settle the indexing pin in its new hole.... well you get the picture.
Here is the almost final test fitting. I say final because this is where the first required remake of a part came about. Just after this photo was taken I moved the small gear back to the mill to take off another .003 inches to chase away the last of the binding between the pair. 3/4 of the way around the blank I managed to drop count on the completed turns of the RT and planted the cutter dead center of a tooth. Scratch one gear. It was SOOOOOOoooooo close to being finished. Nope.... no throwing, but I did vent a bit. At least it wasn't the cam gear. That one would have really hurt. Tomorrow, I'll cut a new blank and go back at it.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/gears-closeup.jpg)
The photo below shows the gears and the cylinder's new water jacket. (thanks Tim... your help with the arbor press was a life saver) The cylinder head is likely to be the next major project, along with the piston and the idea I've gotten for con rod.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/gears-test.jpg)
Steve
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Beautiful work Steve, I am not saying much but I am watching every step. :thumbup:
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Hi Steve lovely job :clap:
Can I ask a couple of questions :-
1:- How did you relocate the gears back on the mandrel so you picked up the correct position :scratch:.
2:- How did you grind the tooth form on the single point cutter :scratch:.
Cheers
Stew
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Stew
Since nothing was moved in the setup, the point of the tool was used to realign the blank. The tool bit was made from drill rod so it could be machined on the mill. It was then heated and dropped in oil to harden it. A diamond hone was used to touch up the cutting edge.
first time I've tried hardened drill rod as a cutting tool but it works a treat. It also offers a lot of new options for profiles.
Steve
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That's some patience you have there Steve, oops....do you really need to make another, it looks so good... :(
I suppose you do looking how well you have made the rest of it :clap:
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Very nicely done Steve.
You seemed to have answered all the questions I asked you in my email, and also experienced the dividing head that I explained to you.
The advantage of involute cutters is that on materials like you are using, you can go to full depth in one pass rather than the multi pass you are doing with the flycutter. But as we say, what is the rush.
You can buy involute cutters a lot cheaper over here.
http://rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/INVOLUTE_GEAR_CUTTERS__SET_S_AND_INDIVIDUAL_.html
John
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John
After crashing the first gear, the second also bit the dust in the same manner. Repeated cuts on the RT were pretty mind numbing. Since the second gear died while under the final dimensional cut, I took the advice of a user on HMEM and tried the cut in a single pass. The drill rod cutter was up for it and the mill didn't complain any more than when it was taking smaller cuts. 28 passes later I had a much cleaner looking gear than when I was making multiple passes and it meshed well enough to begin the lapping in process. The gears are now running together without any extreme drag and what there is should disappear once I can put the gears under power for a final run in.
Interesting project and I'll do it again when required, but I'd rather eat molten glass than do it for a living....(grin). There are kinder methods for driving men to madness.
Steve
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I like the gear cutter/cutting Steve.... Again something that will undoubtedly be useful to many of us :thumbup:
but I'd rather eat molten glass than do it for a living....(grin).
:lol: Never heard or even thought about that before!!!
There are kinder methods for driving men to madness.
..... Women? :bang: :)
Ralph.
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Interesting project and I'll do it again when required, but I'd rather eat molten glass than do it for a living....(grin). There are kinder methods for driving men to madness.
As you say Steve, using the dividing head can become very mind numbing, but on this occasion you must realise it was needed.
You will now be able to say that you have made ALL the engine bits, with the added bonus, you have saved yourself a few pennies. :clap:
John
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John
It's just another case of spending a whole lot of hours making something that could have been easily solved for about $30.00....LOL. I could have gotten the gears ready made, but where is the fun and in that? I learned a whole new set of skills and, as you say, I can look at it knowing I made the whole darned thing with my very own grubby hands.
I cut the cast iron piston rings last night and will cut the piston to match them later today. The con rod will also be attacked in earnest. Then everything will be positioned and bolted onto the base. That will let me turn the crank under power to finish the gear fitting. Still lots fiddly bits to make, but it's definitely looking more and more like an engine every time I do something.
Steve
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Stew
Since nothing was moved in the setup, the point of the tool was used to realign the blank. The tool bit was made from drill rod so it could be machined on the mill. It was then heated and dropped in oil to harden it. A diamond hone was used to touch up the cutting edge.
first time I've tried hardened drill rod as a cutting tool but it works a treat. It also offers a lot of new options for profiles.
Steve
Thanks for answering my questions Steve. Nice job with the gears by the way :thumbup:
Stew
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Nicely Done!
Watching this thread in earnest. Still learning stuff.. ideas and methods..
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You guys are still here?....LOL Okay we'll keep going. It's a little hard to stop when you know you're being watched.
The project cleared a couple of hurdles over the past two days. The rings were turned from the remaining small piece of Durabar cast iron and then I launched off into uncharted waters. Cutting the rings was no big deal. Lots of care was taken to get the dimensions right and the end product was 2 small rings measuring .750 x .0625 with a wall thickness of .0312. That is 1/32 of an inch for those who are still getting used to decimals. The darned things even felt fragile.
Now.... the rings had to be split. Thank the gods for good advice from a local friend and machinist who builds IC engines. On my recent visit, he showed me a couple of tricks I didn't know I needed. One was the easy way to split a cast iron ring that looks like it would fall part under any sort of stress. The photo below shows how the the ring splitting was done. It was slipped over the end of a MT2 taper and then gently struck with a piece of brass. It split cleanly and happened so fast that at first I thought the piece had broken.
The photos were taken after the rings had been completed, so bear with me when you see the gaps are already opened.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/ring-split.jpg)
The other trick my friend John shared with me was his method for heat treating the rings to prevent warping or uneven heating. He showed me his little aluminum "can" that he made for just that purpose. The rings needed to be expanded so they will spring against the cylinder walls. This is done by placing a spacer in the gap and then placing the rings inside the "can" and closing the lid. The can was then placed in the kitchen oven at 500° for an hour and then left to cool, unopened. The aluminum spreads the heat evenly and cools the same way, preventing warp and relieving any stress the machining might have induced.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/ring-wedged.jpg)
Once the rings were cool, the ends of the gaps were filed to allow the rings to fit within the cylinder bore with .003 left in the gap for what I assume is expansion clearance. The end result was a beautiful fit. The piston was then turned and the grooves were cut to fit the original inner diameter of the rings, plus .001 (who really cuts a .0005 pass on a hobby lathe?) The copper wire in the ring groove is there to keep the piston from disappearing down the cylinder bore while I'm handling it.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/ring-piston.jpg)
I then moved back to the lathe to turn the basic shape of the modified connecting rod. Once the contour was as I wanted it, the piece was moved to the mill to give it the flat surfaces. Yes.... I know the vice is more stable in the middle and yep... that small end is probably a great place for a machinist jack, but I was only removing .010 per pass for a total take of .0625. No harm, no foul.... and it worked out fine. The big end was still very firmly attached to a nice solid supportive piece of brass hex bar which.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/conrod-1.jpg)
The big end got the same treatment, along cuts for the bolt heads. The piece was then cut off the hex bar before drilling the end cap bolt holes. Brass was chosen for the connecting rod due it's wear properties, since the crank design made installing a bushing impractical.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/conrod-2.jpg)
The big end was made longer than its final configuration so it could be cut away. The end cap bolt holes were drilled prior to the separation so things could be cleanly re-mated. My handy dandy carbide saw blade made easy work of the cut. The setup is much more stable then it appears and the blade was introduced slowly and advanced into the cut in quite small increments. A final pass with an end mill put the mating surface to rights and once bolted together, let me drill and ream the journal bearing surface in the proper spot.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/conrod-3.jpg)
The con rod was then fitted to the crank shaft for a test fit and with a bit of oil, proved to be spot on. Just enough friction to let me know it was a good fit and little enough to allow for an easy lapping fit with a bit of metal polish, just to slick it all up.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/conrod-4.jpg)
Another couple of steps out of the way. The piston and con rod will get some attention tomorrow as the wrist pin is fitted and the crank is tested int he crank case. I'm a wee bit concerned that the modification to the con rod might require some clearance adjustments to the inner bore, but that remains to be seen. Tomorrow should tell more of that story, as some of the assembly process begins in earnest.
Steve
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You guys are still here?....LOL Okay we'll keep going. It's a little hard to stop when you know you're being watched.
Steve
Still here Steve..... :thumbup:
A little quiet, perhaps. ...... ::)
Thoroughly enjoying/ admiring every word, every pic. :clap:
David D
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Still watching Steve
I've been reading an article in Model Engineer about making cast iron piston rings and you got the method spot on :thumbup:, its all coming together well.
Stew
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You guys are still here?....LOL Okay we'll keep going. It's a little hard to stop when you know you're being watched.
...
Yup here watching and waiting. Very nice job on the connecting rod BTW.
The piston and ring info is great. I would have never thought of that. Thanks!
Eric
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Me too!
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Same here Steve, learning something new everyday
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No major parts made this weekend, as I began fitting things together so they work properly together and catching some of the small items, like spacers, that I've needed to make, up to this point.
The crank case was relieved enough to miss the crank bolts and the crank now clears the walls for a nice smooth rotation. I can highly recommend having a rotary file bit in your tool box. It saved me hours of hand filing work in awkward places and positions.
Once those thing were all taken care of, it was time to assemble the parts and pieces in a semi permanent state. The photo below shows the connecting rod installed along with the temporary piston. Installing it became almost second nature while the crank case was being expanded. It was a little tricky since the end cap had to be held onto the crankshaft with a piece of copper wire while the nuts were being inserted from the top of the engine base. The copper wire was then removed to allow things to rotate.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/conrod-install.jpg)
The gears still needed to be bedded in, so once the cylinder was fitted back on the base and the small gear was secured tot he shaft, it was time to see just how well things were really fitting. The little engine was placed on the lathe bed and the crank shaft was secured in the three jaw chuck to give it a spin. Since the lowest speed on my lathe is 100 rpm, that is where things began. The final run speed was at 500 RPM and if you look closely, the camera shows no hint of vibration in base. Smooth as silk.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/gears-run-in.jpg)
The whole process took a while, with several grades of polishing materials being used. I began with a gray stick compound which is typically used for quick scratch removal and as things began to settle in, progressed to my preferred finishing polish, called MAAS. It's similar to Flitz or Semi-chrome and leaves a super fine finish without leaving unwanted grit behind during clean up. A bit of cutting oil was added to the mix just to make sure there was enough lubrication to prevent any chance of binding as the metal worked against itself. The gray slurry in the photo is oil and MAAS after about 30 minutes of run time at about 500 rpm. The gears are now feel close enough to finished to attempt to run the engine when the time comes.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/gears-polishing.jpg)
Even with the temporary piston and no rings, the engine is already proving to have very good compression. After a squirt of light oil into the bore I placed my thumb over the hole and was delighted to see strong spray of oil mist escape as the compression easily lifted my digit and them sucked it back hard enough to leave an imprint of the bore on the thumb pad.
The bearing cover was drilled and bolted in position using 4-40 hex head cap screw. Like others on the board, I dislike using socket head screws on an engine like this one. It just deserves better.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/bearing-cover-bolts.jpg)
Tomorrow, I'm off in search of band saw blades. The last one in the place gave up the ghost while cutting the material for the cylinder head. That certainly slowed progress a bit.....(grin). Hopefully, I'll be back in the shop later tonight to at least begin gathering materials for the governor build.
Steve
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Steve,
That took a lot of brass b***'s to run that engine like that without tying it down. It may not have vibrated but the lathe could have.
But looking very good and I can't believe the detailed process you are putting into that engine. Nice. :thumbup:
The thing I'm learning here is that you need to put full concentration on one project and see it through to completion. My problem is to many things interest me and I never finish one project.
Keep up the good work.
Bernd
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Bernd
By the time I took that photo, all the vibration was pretty much gone. What you don't see is me holding the engne in my hand until it wore in a bit. The engine was only on the lathe bed once it was obvious it was stable. Brass ones maybe, but they're not so big as to make me hurt me or the engine....(wink)
I long ago learned that if I had too many things going at one time, nothing got completed. I've got a long listof builds I want to do, but I'm not a huge multi-tasking type where technical things are concerned. I like to be able to think my way through a project un-distracted by other nagging projects. If I'm working more than one engine, the planned mods and such get jumbled up in my head.
Steve
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Today I gambled a bit and took on a project that saw the cam gear back on the mill for a bit of careful, and I do mean careful, modifications. With all the work in making it one piece, cutting the gear and running it in for smooth operation, this step could have burned a whole lot of work.
The cam on the rear of the gear actuates a rod which controls the exhaust valve in conjunction with the governor. A roller runs inside the rim of the cam side of the gear which rides up on the cam when the engine is ready for a power stroke. This action is somewhat hidden in the original design, so I decided to reveal things a bit so the action can be seen.
The operation began with some careful calculations and a couple of drawings, just to prove the idea was going to fit in the limited space and accommodate the cam. Once everything checked out, the gear was placed on the rotary indexer and drilled for creating six spokes.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/spokes-1.jpg)
As thing progressed, it didn't look much like spokes, but everything was fitting where it was supposed to be and unwanted metal was disappearing at a nice pace.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/spokes-2.jpg)
The whole gear is about the size of a silver dollar and the interior of the cam ring is a radius of only 3/4 inch and drops to 19/32 inch where the cam runs along the rim. Did I mention that the central hub robs both dimensions of 1/4 inch radius? Like I said, things were tight and large movements were not on the menu. As The last cut was made and 6 small spokes emerged, I got the chance to breathe again.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/spokes-3.jpg)
Once the gear was off the mill, I began hand filing the spokes to reshape and contour the corners and edges. I enjoy file work and the time it gives me to think ahead consider any other changes I want to add. The session was quite peaceful and soon the small gear was taking on a nice old fashioned look. Three of the spokes were completely independent and were quickly knocked out. The remaining three were a bit more of a puzzle. The one center of the cam is heavily attached the cam by about half the thickness of the spoke. This required some very delicate file work, especially since half of the spoke was embedded in a solid mass.
The outer two spokes just miss the ramp to the cam and gave little room to maneuver. This is where patience and a steady hand come in handy.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/spokes-4.jpg)
Here is the reverse side, showing the cam and the embedded spoke. Now all it needs is a bit of final polishing to improve on the current hand filed finish.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/spokes-5.jpg)
I think the results were worth all the sweat and the open look should make the engine even more interesting to watch when it's running. Ya just gotta love a good challenge like this one....(grin)
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/spokes-6.jpg)
Steve
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Steve,
:jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw:
That gear is a work of art. :smart:
Wow. Just wow.
Eric
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That's fantastic work Steve :thumbup: it really adds to the the engine appearance.
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Stew
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That is some really beautiful handywork. You sir, have a keen eye for detail and a steady hand to achieve what your eye beholds.
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:
Tim
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OH, MY........
That`s some beautiful work you`ve done there Steve! :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:
:clap: :clap:
David D
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Just one thing Steve, you have done such a wonderful job on the top gear, the bottom one now looks a little bulky. Maybe that requires the same treatment :)
John
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That took even bigger balls to start attacking the fine gear with the mill and rotary table! I agree it was worth it though, looks spectacular now! :bow:
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You've really opened my eyes with this one Steve, I'd never have thought this could be done on manual machines :bow: :bow:
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Ya, what they said above. WOW :jaw: :bugeye: :jaw: :bugeye: Now that takes guts.
I have to give you a couple of :bow: :bow: for that one. I'm impressed.
Bernd
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Thanks for hanging in here with me guys. The encouragement is keeping it all going and makes it fun to share the project.
Darren.... if it can't be done manually... please don't tell me....LOL. It's all based the bumblebee theory... if I don't know I'm not supposed to be able to fly, I can ignore the fact that I can't.
But I digress. I got a phone call, today, chiding me for the long silence on this thread....(grin). Worry not.... I've been steady at it, between taking care of family obligations and attending small local weekend tractor and engine shows, so without further delay....here goes.
This installment begins with a slug of rather ugly cast iron which was turned oversized to allow me a bit of room for creativity. I'm steadily drifting away from the original Victorian design, more and more, as I add small touches of my own. The critical dimensions are still those Duclos prescribed, but the devil is in the details of the final product.... as you will soon see.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/head-billet.jpg)
That slug of iron is the genesis for the engine's cylinder head. The first attempt went well, right up to the moment I was counter drilling flat spots to seat the acorn nuts I'd chosen to use instead of socket head bolts. I'd already completed a lot of polishing and hand finish work when I was bitten on the arse by an old adage. Measure twice and cut once. Add in the mistake of seeing one end mill with my eyes and my hand grabbing the next larger one and things went pears shaped.... real fast. I managed to open an unwanted hole directly into the combustion chamber, ruining hours of work. This is why you'll possibly notice two versions of the head in the photos.
The photo below shows the head from the bottom side where the combustion chamber and the valves can be seen. The valves are 5/16 inch in diameter and 1 1/32 inches long. The seat angle is 45° and only 1/16 inch in length. Yep.... we're working tiny here. The valves were successfully lapped and the cast iron cooperated, giving me a nice tight seal. Too bad, this head would sadly die only half an hour later...(grin).
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/head-valve.jpg)
Here you see the cylinder head from the top, with the valves in place. You also get a first peek at the newly reshaped water jacket and cylinder. More on that change to he original version in a moment.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/head-cylinder.jpg)
Sometimes, serendipity or perhaps, even more rarely seen, synchronicity enter the picture. The tulip contour, along with the need for a little added metal in one section of the head lead to several interesting "obstacles". The use of a ball end mill along the corners of all vertical areas also added to the fun. The Tulip shape required a bit of an under cut to the bottom edge of the head. When everything combined, the end result was a series of odd looking edge lines around the head, once it was turned back to the final dimensions.
None of this was predicted when the cutting began.... it just came to be as things progressed. The photo below shows the end results. I typically do a lot of hand filing to get the look I like, so my first thought was "no biggie... it can be filed away". As the filing began, some very nice clean flowing lines began to present themselves to my eye. They were pleasing in a natural sort of way so I began to try to figure out how to use them instead of removing them. I liked the results and they are now part of the design. No straight edges in my world...(grin)
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/head-detail.jpg)
Once again, the obligatory test fit photo..... (grin). The valve springs and keepers are now in place, all the head ports are drilled or threaded and the acorn nuts are installed. The head will have a lot of brass attached to it as the carburetor, muffler, oiler and the cam roller assembly, so I toned the head down a bit after it was all polished. It received a gun blue treatment which was then lightened to a "Hematite" silver using a gentle 0000 steel wool rub. The lower neck was also given a bluing, but left darker to help highlight the tulip contour.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/head-test-fit.jpg)
As I mentioned early on, this engine is destined to become "my" engine, but will remain a tribute to the skills and generosity of Philp Duclos. I dunno.... but I think he just might approve... eh?
Steve
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Steve........
I just don`t have the words to write.......... :bugeye:
Sorry........ ::)
David D
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This installment deals with a re-engineering project that I'd been mentally toying with ever since the engine build began. The original design called for a very simple governor that strapped two springs to the flyballs to force them to collapse at low RPM. Functional, but with its square shafts and those springs hanging out like sore thumbs, I decided I wanted something a bit more complex and visually mechanical.
The redesign began with a pirated copy of Bogster's Crap-O-cad V.3.0 which I nabbed while he wasn't looking. This highly technical program gave me a chance to think the basics through while enjoying the fact that Bogster was out for one copy of his best...(grin). From this simple sketch, I launched off into the creative voids.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/governor-coc.jpg)
The first thought was to use a simple pair of simple straps running from the ball rods back to the lower tensioner, but space was a wee bit tight in there between the rods and the crank shaft. The connectors were finally made at a 90° so that they could fold up neatly and still allow full travel of the flyballs. When expanded, the linkage almost appears to be a small eagle with its wings spread. The spring was hand wound, but it is a shot in the dark which will probably have to be adjusted a bit once the engine is running. I made several of differing tensions to deal with that when the time come.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/governor-detail.jpg)
I then began the flywheel which is seen here in its first fitting. The rim is hot rolled steel which donated to the cause by Zuesrekning. Thanks Tim. The center is brass which was press fitted (.004 overlapped dimensions) using my patented 4 pound press. Can you say small sledge hammer? The final version will be a 6 curved spoke flywheel which will allow the works to be seen and contribute to the opened up look I've been chasing.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/governor--flywheel.jpg)
Since the first photo gave a small insight into the thought process in use, the last one will give another peek. Here the fuel tank is getting a bit of experimentation and visualization. This type of thing helps me get a better image in my head of how I will want to secure it when its time comes. The tank is a small steam engine boiler that is doing stand in duty until I've made the real deal. I had planned to use a hexagonal tank, but once it was tried out , it was immediately and definitely apparent that it was not meant for this project.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/governor-tank.jpg)
The ignition system will be ordered on Monday and the carb and exhaust muffler are yet to be built, but the project is getting closer to completion than I expected to be by now. Hopefully this one will be running before Labor Day when I'm supposed to exhibit some of my engines.
Steve
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what a great bit of workmanship looking forward to seeing the finished job now :headbang: :clap:
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Just stunning...al of it.... :bow:
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Nice work with the governor Steve,
Not wanting to start a string of ball jokes:- but as well as varying the rating of the springs you could adjust the weight/size of the balls, I found that the governor on my Beam Engine worked best with lead balls.
Stunning all round job
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Stew
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As usual Steve,
Very innovative and artistic work. It is difficult to imagine what you are going to come up with next.
Wonderful stuff.
Bogs
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Wow Steve, that is coming out very nicely. I see another masterpiece!
Eric
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Ok, so just how does one go about fettling a governing contraption like that? :jaw:
You certainly do make some very nice pieces Steve :clap:
Looking forward to the rest :)
Ralph.
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Guys...
I really appreciate the encouragement and the kind words. The last post ended with a couple of teases, like the flywheel blank and tank test placement. The flywheel has come a ways since then. I modified the 5 spoke instructions given in one of the Duclos articles to make it a 6 spoke version. This took a little rejiggering of hole sizes and placements, as well as the radii of the spoke curves, but nothing brain stretching about it.
The project kept getting delayed by family matters, including an 8 hour middle of the night round trip drive to retrieve my son and his broken arm from a wilderness camp in the Great Smokey Mountains. Nicholas is doing fine and seems to ignore the pain as if it were nothing. I finally got back on course late yesterday and made up for some lost time.
The photos below show the flywheel just after it was mounted for testing the wedge lock which secures it to the shaft. This is basically a cone that has been split at 90° so the 2-56 screws can force it to squeeze the crank shaft. Quite an effective way to mount a flywheel. All the hand filing work is now done, but the flywheel will see quite a bit of hand polishing yet, before the job is done.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/flywheel-1.jpg)
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/flywheel-2.jpg)
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/flywheel-3.jpg)
I think I'm on the right track with the engine, but will be visiting a local model IC engine guy tomorrow, just to let him critique the project so far. Not having messed with IC engines, I'd like to be sure I'm on track for a runner.
For those who are curious about making curved spoked flywheels, I posted a write up on the HMEM board back in October on the subject. You can check it out at http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=3169.0
Ralph...
After 20 years of interest in steam engines, the governor was actually pretty straight forward. The only tricky part was making it all fit in the limited space that was available. That required a bit of give and take where one robs Peter to pay Paul. By going with round rods and smaller diameters, along with slightly over sized balls, I managed to gain just enough space to sneak past the limitations. I got to smoke test it a bit tonight after securing the flywheel. IT WORKS!!!!!!!! although the spring tension might require some trial and error experimentation.
Steve
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Lovely job Steve that flywheel is a work of art :thumbup:
Stew
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You are a real rotten bu**er Steve.
Every turn you take, you come up with another jaw dropping feature :jaw: :jaw:
I suppose for your final trick you will have the engine running 1" above the bench and rotating very slowly, with no visible means of support.
You are giving us a real goal to aim for.
John
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:bugeye:
I`m still out of available words...... :scratch: ::)
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
David D
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Absolutely stunning, that sir, is a work of art.
Tim
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Steve,
I must say for a guy that only started machining a short time ago you sure don't show it, but then you've got that natrual talent. Anybody that can work a file and make a flywheel look like a very fine casting is a natrual at using hand tools.
As all the others have said "can't find the words to express how nice a job you've done". It is truly an exceptional model build.
Regards,
Bernd
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John nailed it....
Every turn you take, you come up with another jaw dropping feature
very nice looking flywheel Steve :thumbup:
I had a bit of a tutorial on the straight spoke type of flywheel from John a while back (still not put it to test ::) ) but that took me long enough to get my head around..... Now super sleek curves..... Again!! :bugeye:
The govener looks pretty damn sweet and the fact that it works is all the better :clap: I'll have to look out for some plans/posts on how they are made and how you make them to do the intended job correctly! (I've no use for one right now, but you never know!? ::) )
Ralph.
P.S. Sorry to hear about your "over size" issue! I've heard that can be painful? :lol:
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Wow Steve :jaw:
That is one nice looking flywheel.
Guys... I can tell you first hand, Steve does outstanding work. I have seen his other engine in person, it is amazing!
Eric
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:bow:
Eric
I second that
George from Conyers Georgia (USA not Russia)
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Hey George,
Welcome a board the collective. :borg:
Bernd
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Welcome aboard George. I think you'll enjoy this board.
I've been a bit busy with the project and the photos suffered for it. I'll try to do a bit better as I go along. With the flywheel only needing a bit of polishing, I moved on to the redesigning the cam linkage, which is one of the gizmos that makes all the other goodies work together. It's job is to hold the exhaust valve open until the RPMs drop enough to require another power stroke. At that time it allows the exhaust valve to close, creating enough vacuum to draw fresh fuel into the cylinder chamber.
The original design called for a single rod which slid within a pair of brackets attached to the outer wall of the cylinder. Since I'm in for a penny, I figured to go for a pound and add a bit of complexity to the visual aspect of the linkage. It still operates just as the original design would, but with a little variation on the look of the mechanism.
Two more small parts will still have to be made to complete this section of the build.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/head-stuff-linkage.jpg)
Here you can see the cam roller which runs inside the spoked gear. It is made of hardened drill rod to allow it to take the pnishment of beating against the slope of the cam lobe, also located inside the gear ring.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/head-stuff-roller.jpg)
From there I made a quick jump over to the carb, while I sorted out how I wanted to go about completing the linkage assembly. The carb is a simple aspiration type which atomizes gasoline while mixing it with air in the proper ratio for efficient burning. This one does it by use of a tiny #60 drill hole and a darning needle for metering the flow of fuel.
The hard part was drilling a #60 hole 5/8 inch to mate up with the needle's location. Luckily, I had access to a sensitive drill chuck which made things a bit easier to control. Remember.... #60 is the smallest drill in the standard drill index many of us have and brass has a tendency to grab a bit and either break it off in the work piece or drag it deeper into the material than wanted.
Thje length was dicated by Duclos to allow the fuel droplets and air to have time to mix well before entering the combustion chamber. The ball cut and the wide flare on the end were added as a bit of whimsy.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/head-stuff-carb.jpg)
The next direction, while still cogitating the linkage's last steps, was to tackle the exhaust section. Duclos had a nice design and I almost went with it, had I not attended a large show where hundreds of hit and miss engines were on display. After seeing the variety of different styles, I came up with something original, while keeping to totally functional as a muffler. Unfortunately, I did not get any photos before I press fitted the top into the canister.
The exhaust brass stack was the reason for the redesign. I simply wanted to have the vertical stack in hopes that this engine might be capable of blowing the classic smoke rings that hit and miss engines are famous for.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/head-stuff-exhaust.jpg)
Here you can see all the items together. The little engine is becoming rather complex looking, but I enjoy all the wonkiness of exposed mechanical devices, so this one suits my tastes just fine.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/head-stuff-all.jpg)
I'm sorry for the longer dleays in posting these photos, but these small parts often take more time than the larger more dramatic pieces. Hang in there and I'll post more in a few days. There are still about a dozen pieces to build and fit, so the saga continues, even if at a somewhat slower pace.
Steve
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As usual Steve, wonderful and creative work.
It seems to be a repetative thing, as you come up with so many new ideas. So to keep it simple.
Nice one.
John
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Looking stunning Steve
Excelent work 1st Class
:clap: :clap: :clap:
Stew
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So hard to believe that this is being made on a manual mill and lathe and not from castings... very nice work! :clap: :clap: :clap: :bow:
Eric
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Steve, I am constantly amazed when I watch your progress on this little wonder! :thumbup:
Now about those smoke rings! If I may be so bold as to mention that the tractor once so renown for smoke rings was the Lanz Bulldog, it had a vertical exhaust with a large bulge type muffler followed by a tapering pipe with the end cut off square. (It also had a ten litre single cylinder two stroke semi-diesel engine and could pull six furrows all day on a tank of black sludge)
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Guys...
I want to take a moment to say a few words of thanks for all the kind words and the amazing amount of moral support I've received during this project. If it seems I'm sometimes a bit slow to respond to some of the kudos, it's basically because I'm at a loss for words with which to respond. I've found it a humbling experience, as well as a source of inspiration, to push me to try to do the best work that I'm capable of doing. To hear such high praise from the likes of some of the members on the boards is both exciting, a bit startling.... and yes sometimes even a bit embarrassing.... as a relative new comer to the hobby.
We all know there are other boards on line where rivalry jealousy or a persona desire to be top dog sometimes leads to even the best of projects being put down in order to achieve some sort of unstated agenda. I've yet to see any of these evils rear its ugly head here. The chance for sharing this project has really made what is already been a whole lot of fun, even more so. If I've missed thanking you as an individual, please take this as my attempt to remedy my oversight. I'm in truly awe of the people who make up this board and our sister forum for the friendly atmosphere we've all managed to foster here.
Steve
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Very nicely put Steve, this forum truely is a collection of friends. :D
I only wish I was a better wordsmith, at times...... ::)
David D
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as David said as he is a wiser man than I :bow:
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as David said as he is a wiser man than I :bow:
With a remark like that........ :scratch:
Just what are you after, young Graham?
:D
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Steve,
Well put in words! Same craftsmanship with words as well as metal.
All,
I had the good fortune of meeting Steve in person... He is a great guy!
Eric
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Eric,
I only wish I could meet him as well, I can get him to speak to me on Skype, but he won't show me his face.
With all this arty farty stuff he gets up to, I am wondering if he is in fact a she. :lol:
Can you confirm please, seeing as how you have actually seen him.
Bogs
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Eric,
I only wish I could meet him as well, I can get him to speak to me on Skype, but he won't show me his face.
With all this arty farty stuff he gets up to, I am wondering if he is in fact a she. :lol:
Can you confirm please, seeing as how you have actually seen him.
Bogs
Met him and Bernd at a show... Cabin Fever. Yup... Steve is a him. :ddb: Unless he escaped from the circus as a bearded lady! :lol:
Eric
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Oh dear, another theory shot down in flames.
I will get something on him one day. Then I can get him back for showing us such wonderful work.
Bogs
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:jaw: OMG!!!! Bogster was having "affectionate" fantasies???? eeeeeEEEEWWWWW!!!! :wack:
Steve
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At last, it has worked, a humorous reaction.
I have managed to break you out of that very serious mode you have been in over the last few months.
Welcome back Steve, you had me worried there.
Bogs
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John
Thanks for pointing that out. I've been a bit distracted with a back problem since October. Only in the past 3 weeks have I been "back on my feet". Hard to see the humor when the pain pills were daily fare. I'm feeling pretty fit now.. if this summer cold will just let go of me.
To be honest, there are stretches where I've missed the board for a few days at a time. Much time has been given over to the engine project and the grand kids. Cold weather will run me back inside sooner than I want and I'll probably put in mor time on the boards. Right now I'm simply having more fun than the law allows.
Now.... you might want to cut back on them meds a wee bit.... we aint gonna be showering together.... :lol:
Steve
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Nice to see you haven't lost it.
Do what I did, get them to slap a patch on, it has got me mobile again and almost as grumpy as I was before.
Just take care, and give us a bit of humour in them thare great postings.
John
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I promise I haven't abandoned you guys on this project. I've been working my way past a couple of small engineering problems, mostly dealing with lack of room, before I can advance to the next stage. Between designing my own feedwater pump and making it fit the rear shaft and coming up with a usable check valve design that I like, I'm spending more time erasing pencil lines than cutting metal. The feedwater system will probably warrant its own thread before all is said and done.
With a bit of luck I might be able to get some fresh photos up this weekend. There have been some small advances but none worthy in and of themselves to earn a post.
Patience... its still happening.
Steve
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Get a move on Steve, I am waiting in the wings to see how this engine is finally going to look and run. I am sure it is going to be a total stunner. :clap:
I am hoping to start on my CNC designed engine this weekend, but will be made manually. You must know the one I am on about.
I was hoping you could sing along, as you have the music sheet. But it seems like you are dragging your heels on this one. :lol:
John
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John
I can name that tune in one note....(grin). I guess you'll be singing solo on that engine, but I'll try to catch up later. I can't sing anyway. Looks like I'm burning a bit more time than I expected to a few days ago. Got to keep the little beggar cool and I'm not going to use a cat food can like the plans called for. I think I beat the pump problem tonight and will be giving it a test fit, possibly tomorrow if family obligations allow it.
I managed to snag a nice summer cold a couple of weeks back and it turned out to be rather vicious, having moved into my chest and putting me to taking naps to catch up on lost sleep. I'm sure glad I didn't use all of my quota when I was a child. I've rather enjoyed them of late. I'm well on the mend now but this cough is not cooperating.
I'll need to get some time in the shop before next week as I've just learned I've been volunteered to holiday at the beach the first part of next week.
Steve
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As I said earlier, most of what I've been doing was small steps which were taking up more time than expected. This posting documents some of them.
The modified linkage for controlling the cam and flywheel assembly changed quite a few of the dimensions given on the plans. This required making few adjustments along the way. The photo below shows the foot which opens the exhaust valve during the engine's freewheeling mode. This action is what makes a hit and miss engine "miss". With the exhaust valve held open it can't deliver any compression.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/linkage-foot.jpg)
That odd silver ball on the front of the cam was not there for decoration only. It served as a pivot point for the catch arm that holds the valve foot down. This piece was supposed to be installed much earlier in the build, but I didn't like the original design which called for a piece of 1/8 inch flat bar. Once the foot was installed, I had to come up with a custom arm to fit the new linkage. This photo shows what I came up with.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/linkage-arm.jpg)
If you look closely you'll see a small rod has been added to the slide linkage This rod is the remains of a broken cobalt drill bit and is where the arm catches the linkage when the gear cam is activated... assuming the governor is at full extension. As a side note.... you might want to know that drill rod (silver steel) and cobalt do not solder very well at all....so green Loctite was used to secure the joint.
Here is the completed linkage assembly. For the curious, take a little time to study the relationships between all the components and the operational sequence of the little engine will begin to reveal itself.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/linkage-all.jpg)
With the front side of the engine completed, that free swinging end of the crank shaft needed attention. The plan is to mount a small water pump behind the engine body and drive it with an eccentric mounted on the shaft. In order to accomplish this, the shaft had to be stabilized. A place to mount the pump was also on the list of things needed. The bushing was installed and the face of the piece was turned to "fit" the large opening in the rear of the base. This will let me use it to mount he pump as things progress.
While it doesn't look like much of a step, this piece had me sweating a bit. When a shaft is supported at two points, as this one has been until now, you have little chance of binding. When that same shaft is supported at 3 points, things can begin to bind in a hurry. Even a slight misalignment will cause problems. The large hole in the base is centered at 1.812 inches from the bottom of the body. This is also the location of the hole center in the front support where the points are located.
Since the body is contoured and lacking any abundance of reference points I had added one the plans never called for. That small flat spot you see in the photo below was a god send. I was able to us it to help square the work piece when it had to be put back in the mill vise. More than once it saved my bacon and is now one of the tricks that is being used regularly on other projects.
By using the flat spot, a DTI and my now much beloved DRO, I was able to nail the 1.812 inch measurement perfectly and mill the slots for the plate into the round body at exactly the right place.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/pump-plate.jpg)
The photo below shows the pump in its early stages. The bore is 5/16 with a 3/4 inch stroke. The plunger has been made and fitted with its o ring and the water hammer chamber is fitted. You'll see flat spots on the upper section which I mentioned above. Since the area will be removed when the pump gets its end cap, they won't interfere with anything. The simply make it easy to keep things square.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/pump-early.jpg)
Here is what it all looks like at the moment. The mock up fuel tank is about to be replaced with the real deal and the round mounting plate and wooden plinth are almost ready for final finish and the pump build is well under way. The ignition system should be here next week and hopefully the first test firing will also be made before next weekend. Lots of little items to finish tying down and still more polishing to be done, but the project is quickly coming to completion. Keep those fingers crossed that the darned thing will run....LOL
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/linkage-full.jpg)
Steve
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Stunning work Steve :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Useful technique with that flat spot filed that one away for use in the future.
Can't seem to see the pics of the pump :scratch:
Cheers
Stew
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Im sure you'll have it running with few problems. There will be some of those choice words needed to get it running properly though for sure.
-
Thanks guys....
George, you almost "got it" with your last post. This project was begun with the idea of making the engine "mine", but the real message is that it doesn't matter if you're building one of Elmer's, Chuck Fellow', Jan Ridder's or even a Philip Duclos engine design, you don't have to be chained to copying every move they made.
The critical measurements were faithfully followed or at least allowed for throughout this whole project. Those are the important data points that make the engine capable running when you are done. Not everyone will want to go to the extremes I've gone to with this project, but never be afraid to make cosmetic changes to your engine so that it becomes uniquely yours and different from all others in whole world.
This is not to say that I'd make such changes to a historically accurate rendition of a specific engine or fall too far from original with a casting kit, but not every engine we build need be slavishly like every other. If only one builder takes that message to heart and runs with it, this whole long thread will have been a resounding success in my mind.
Ok... enough of the ramblings ....a few more hows are probably in order after the long gap in this thread. The cheesy little toy boiler that has been standing in for the real gas tank is now officially retired. The following photos show the beginning of the new one. This tank will be for the aspiration carb and will be replaced with a look alike once I've got time to work out the vapor tank system I want to add before all is said and done. Since my self imposed deadline is looming near, this one will have to do for now.
In the first photo, The work piece has been bored to the desired size and the first end cap has already been soldered, fitted and trimmed. I realized I needed photos just in time to share the second end cap as it was undergoing the same process.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/tank-bore.jpg)
The end caps will both be fitted with a porthole sight glass, so the huge hole is not there by mistake...(grin). This one has been cleaned, fluxed and the solder is already wrapped around the center section. I flattened the solder so it could be wrapped close enough to take full advantage of the gap I left for it to fill in the bore.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/tank-endcap.jpg)
This trick also meant a much cleaner solder joint and much less clean up than trying to feed solder into the provided gap. Note there is a wide space between the two pieces. This proved to be handy as it let me see when the solder melted. As it flowed into place, the gap disappeared and the pieces mated quite close together.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/tank-heat.jpg)
Also note that the dimensions of the pieces are not final. I left some "fat" so that I could put the tank back in the lathe for clean up.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/tank-lathe.jpg)
The clean up required several very light passes, but the solder lines all but completely disappeared. A bit of polishing has already begun to remove tool marks and the piece is headed back to the lathe to fit the glass, which will come in the next installment.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/tank-polish.jpg)
Here is the obligatory mock up/ test fit to see how things are going to look.
Steve
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/tank-temp.jpg)
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I have to say that I am moved by the quality and attention to detail that you bring to this project. :bow: Your creative vision on this is superb, absolutely 1st class work. :clap: :clap: :clap:
Tim
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Steve, is t'other end to the soldered cap solid?
Nice work, yet again.... :thumbup:
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Very nice bits again Steve.
Are you going with Jan Ridder's vapour system then?
John
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I love how this is gradually growing/ developing, one beautiful piece/ assembly at a time...... :clap:
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Very very nice Steve. Like what you are doing with the tank!
Eric
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Darren
Both ends are open and will have glass installed. The next installment will show a bit more of the whole idea.
John
That's the plan.. at least eventually. I'm looking at trying to make this tank in a manner that will allow me to switch it over to the vapor system. If things go right, I'll only have to replace a filler tube with the intake and turn the fuel outlet into a drain. The upper vapor outlet will first serve as a vent and will then convert to become vapor the pick up. Less complicated than it sounds, but since I'm still working out the final design, I'll have to settle for the aspirated system for now.
I think I figured out the tank mountings this morning so hopefully the bit of copper wired which has served so well is soon to be history.
Steve
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I think the safety wire look works for me :) :) :)
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You certainly have a wonderful way with metal shaping Steve :thumbup:
I'm quite looking forward to seeing this little beauty all finished.... No where near as much as you, but it is exciting to see it all coming together :ddb:
Glad you're taking the time to share :beer:
Ralph.
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simply stunning :bow: :bow: :thumbup: :clap:
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Steve,
Looks amazing! When I make cosmetic changes to other peoples designs it's usually to make it quicker and easier for me to machine ... yours are completely the opposite!
Nick
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Well I've been playing catch up as I've been AWOL for a little while ::) ............ and I've thoroughly enjoyed catching up with everyone's "going's on" etc .......... I have saved this one for the end though as I thought you would have upped the stakes a little Steve, .............. and you have .......... :beer:
I can't say any more than the rest of the guys, it's just top class, as is the write up ............ thank you ........... very enjoyable read, and I'm really looking forward to the final chapters (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b28/CrewCab53/Smileys/wav.gif)
and the photo's
and the video
etc (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b28/CrewCab53/Smileys/wink.gif)
Dave
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After a short break for a busman's holiday at the beach, with all my young ones, I finally got caught back up on my sleep and hit the shop, ready to work. I'm getting the first feelings of melancholy that a project nearing its end seems to cause. I like having something to work on and I almost feel sad to see one finishing up. Anyway.... Rounding the clubhouse turn and getting ready for the sprint down the home stretch.
The last installment had the gas tank in its early machining stages. Since I planned to use glass ends a bit of machining to the ends was required to accept "O" rings and the glass disk. Then I had to turn up a couple of outer rings to clamp the "O" rings and glass firmly in place in order to hold the fuel.
Everything was bound not going to go perfectly, even though the 2-56 tapping went very smoothly. The first test fit found me wringing 2 of the 2-56 stainless screws off in one of the soldered ends. Note to self.... double check Z axis DRO before you begin drilling as you just might have moved the drill bit in the chuck.... Yeah he did....LOL. The DRO's proved to be worth every dime as I placed 32 bolt holes in a circular pattern with accuracy in the .00015 range.
You never know where you'll find your materials. The glass used in the tank ends came from a pair of ... oooops... three cheap watches purchased at Walmart. It's only 1/16 thick but it's tested to withstand pressure to 100 ft. They do not, however, stand up well to ham handed tightening of hex head cap screws. I managed to break the first one I installed.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/tank-2-end-view.jpg)
The wire that has served the tank so well is now history and the supports are well on their way to getting bolted on. The 1/8 inch square brass had to be annealed before being bent to create a nice snug friction fit around the tank. The ends will bolt to the engine body and will hold the tank 1/4 inch below the crab jet to prevent siphon action, something that would cause severe flooding and an engine that doesn't run. additional bracing will be added to give the supports some added rigidity.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/tank-2-all-view.jpg)
The pump has been trimmed up in preparation for fitting. Yeah... the copper wire is back in a new application, but it certainly proved handy when trying to get a look at elevations and such. The required eccentric is on tomorrow's list of projects, along with finishing the pump's end cap and the beginnings of the plumbing fittings.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/pump-temp.jpg)
The pump has to have a water supply and the engine "needs" a means for cooling the water, so a reservoir comes in handy. The screen will act as a cooling surface as water cascades over it to air cool. The screen is from a kitchen drain strainer and was a very cheap source of stainless mesh.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/tank-water.jpg)
It all is beginning to come together as small details are developed. The electronics have arrived and the plug will be drilled and tapped tomorrow, as I begin tearing the engine down for wiring and final polishing. The wooden round base has already been hollowed out for the ignition system and I've begun marking out to locate the mounting holes for the engine body and the end support. It sounds as if I'm multi-tasking, but it's more like all the final steps are dependent on each other at least being there so the next can be started.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/tank-2-test-fit.jpg)
Keep those fingers crossed as this thing gets closer to its first smoke test.
Steve
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I was gonna ask where you got the glass from. The tank mount is perfect. I would have to say this engine is very "Cedgiesh". :clap:
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I've got to say it's looking rather fancy now Steve (Well it has been looking that way for a while!)
I do like the fact that you found the glass in the watches :thumbup:
It's 01:30 here and my eyes are getting heavy. So this had me re-reading 3 times before I figured out the typo!!..... "What the hell's a crab jet? " (as he tries to wake up his brain!!) :lol:
The ends will bolt to the engine body and will hold the tank 1/4 inch below the crab jet to prevent siphon action,
Looking forward to seeing the "Smoke test"
Ralph.
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Ralph,
A crab jet is what they use on the Deadlest Catch to get 'm back to shore before they spoil :doh:
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Hell... I'd fix it but you guys are having way too much fun....LOL
Steve
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Hi Steve
Thats wonderful in a strange way the engines got a Jewels Vern look about it a 1000 Leages under the sea or the Time Machine,
Absolutely fantastic, thanks for sharing.
Stew
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Hi Steve
Thats wonderful in a strange way the engines got a Jewels Vern look about it a 1000 Leages under the sea or the Time Machine,
Absolutely fantastic, thanks for sharing.
Stew
To me, it is an assembly of many jewels....... :thumbup:
David D
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Steve,
Yet again, superb examples of your imagination, and getting the ideas into the finished articles.
Just a little pointer, for very thin glass, if you go to a good photographic shop, they should have in stock, or be able to order for you, glass slide mounts.
I used to use a medium format camera, and the 2 1/4" square glass slide mounts (usually made by Gepe)would each contain two nice pieces of 2.5" square glass, at about 0.020"(0.5mm) thick. It is anti Newton and fairly tough, and with care can easily be dressed with diamond files and wheels into whatever shape you need. All the usual common sense safety precautions should be used. Glasses and mask, plus a big box of field dressings if you are accident prone.
Nice one.
John
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That is looking
mighty fine magnificant fantastic absolutely beautiful a work of art Words fail me to describe what you have imagined and then brought to be. That is true craftmanship and also an inspiration to others ( like myself ) to go beyond making a functional model, but to try and make it mighty good looking too.
My hat is off to you
Tim
ps, I can't wait to see a video of it running
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Guys
Your sharing in the fun has made this project a treat. I've been watching for old Jules to come calling to reclaim his property, but so far the coast is clear. The engine really has taken on a Verne-esque quality, as the small finishing details are added. I might never build another IC engine, but the one I've gotten from this project is just crazy enough to fit me and the collection to a "T". If that measure constitutes success, then it has been just that... a success.
The project has reached the point where all the work is small stuff, some tedious and delicate, some of it almost downright boring. Progress is ongoing but at a much less dramatic and slower pace.... thus the gaps in time between posts. Most of the work has been permanently mounting and fitting things, fine tuning assemblies and the delicate tweaking of parts that involves.
Since I've been pretty open in this thread, I'm almost obligated to share the very near disaster that sneaked up on my a couple of nights back. After mounting the engine to the base and making some adjustments to the 3 bearings to loosen things back up, I began the process of fine tuning the long train of components that run from the governor to the very top of the engine.
3:30 AM is not the best time to be doing things that require ones fullest attention, but then it's also a time when your judgment concerning such things is not at its highest. The engine was chucked in the lathe so I could observe the governor under power and make the needed adjustments to various parts and pieces. Part of this process required that I position the cylinder section atop the base between "running" the engine the lathe.
Everything was going fine and I'd been religiously removing the cylinder section between each test run. Then a serious case of cranial flatulence descended on me. For some reason, without thinking, I reached for the lathe's start switch and flipped it on before removing the cylinder.
Remember the cam gear? ......yeah.... the one with all the spokes and teeth and time. When the dust settled, there sat an engine with everything nice and square, with the exception of the the cam gear, which now sat at an odd angle of about 25° off plumb. The cylinder was hanging from the rear of the engine in an even more distressing angle. I'm not sure how long it took me to react, but all the the chaos was long completed, before I could even begin to move to stop it.
Now... long experience has taught me a number of things, among which is the fact that adrenalin and shock do not contribute positively to making sound decisions. As I began to untangle the damage I slowly took stock of things. I then moved the engine to my work table where I sat and stared at it until the obscene expletives ran down in my mind. Only then did I begin to run a rapid mental train of options for fixing the problems.
Luck didn't totally desert me, as it became obvious that everything was still "intact". No broken spokes were evident, but the center hub was listing badly and there was some indication that the cam ring or gear might have suffered, but only some testing would tell the tale. I began by grabbing a 5/16 transfer punch (among any shop's most versatile tools) to use as a Tommy bar. After carefully placing the gear in the mill vice, this let me gently manipulate the center hub and carefully nudge things back in position by eyeball.
I then paused and took stock of my options, once again, deciding the lathe definitely offered more potential tricks than anything else at hand. I mounted the gear on the small arbor I used during the gear cutting adventure and turned on the lathe. Things were looking up as I noted the eyeballing had been quite surprisingly effective. It wasn't perfect, but well things were well within the range of repairable, assuming I could come up with a means to push it all back into position.
Once again that mental options train left the station, as I smoked things over. If you let ideas stew long enough they tend to distill themselves and something will usually bob to the top. One of the tools I use quite a bit is a small rollerl on a bar that can be clamped in the QTCP. This tool lets me remove the wobble from work pieces that were removed and then placed back in the lathe for further work. It has the added benefit of being able to apply pressure to a work piece either from the side, or from the end, in order to bring the piece into square with the center line of the lathe. It might not be an industry acceptable text book tool, but then I've never read the book anyway.
Long story made at least a little shorter, it worked. The tool was applied to the end of the work piece and cranked it in using the compound. This quickly got the end face running square to the lathe centerline. I then moved it to side of the cam ring and, with gentle movements of the cross slide, began to remove the unwanted distortion and restore concentricity to both the gear and the cam ring. I reinstalled the gear to the engine and it ran smoothly..... not even any chattering.
There is a fair level of violence taking place when the cam actuates the exhaust linkage. As a result, I will eventually make this gear afresh so that I can shake the lack of "trust" I'm feeling. I'd rather invest the additional time and effort than chance more damage in the future, due to a failed spoke.
Okay...quite a long winded tale, but if you're still awake, I'll share something a bit less morbid. The tank mounts are now completed and bolted down in their final form. The square bar stock just wasn't giving me the warm fuzzies, so I'd been avoiding the final step of drilling and taping the holes to secure them. Another of those "long time experience"s thing is that when I procrastinate over something like this, for some reason, everything is not quite congealed into a final satisfying from. I've learned to let the process run its course until an idea finally surfaces that meets all the requirements. Such was the case here.
The curves were "right" but the hard lines of the bar stock were bothering me on some level. The idea finally surfaced and the solution was dead simple. I put a piece of 3/16 round stock in the mill and made up a few inches of 1/2 round brass. This formed easily and gave me a bit more grip on the tank surface while giving it all the missing curves this engine has been demanding. Once the bending, polishing and drilling was completed, the end results were what you see below.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/tank-mount.jpg)
I've still got to fabricate the filler cap and the drain that goes to the carb, but that should be only a few minutes work. The pump is in one of those "idea stews", at the moment, but is nearing its turn for my hands on attention. There is a bit of plumbing yet to be done and the electronics still have to be to fitted, but I can see light at the end of the tunnel and no trains are in sight... for now....LOL The tank definitely now adds a nice look to an already "interesting" machine.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/tank-full.jpg)
Steve
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I put a piece of 3/16 round stock in the mill and made up a few inches of 1/2 round brass.
Wow, can you teach me that trick? :D
cedge, as everyone else has already stated, it's truly a unique and stunning piece. Almost hard to believe something so pretty is actually an engine.
I'm glad you share those "damn, why did that have to happen" moments, it lets us all follow along in a more personal fashion.
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Steve,
This turning out to be an amazing engine. First the water pumper and now this... :clap:
Nice!
Eric
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Steve,
:bow: :bow: :bow:
Can't wait to see the final stages.
Nick
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For those of you who have been following this thread with such enthusiasm, I've got a bit of sad news. The build is at an end. I know... I'll miss it too, but when the last part is bolted on, the build phase is pretty much at an end. There are two small 2-56 holes left to drill and tap and then all the construction is completed. I'm waiting to take those on until I'm sure a specific adjustment is in the right spot and only a running machine will tell me if it's correctly positioned.
The additions I've made since the last post haven't been large enough to warrant their own postings and the pump is due to have its own short thread, so I decided to concentrate on finishing things up. That required reworking a couple of pieces to add strength and correct a couple of items I didn't like the Duclos solutions for.
It also required a bit of wiring to incorporate a bit of modern electronics into an old style design. Below is the ignition box for the engine. John Ernhardt kindly contributed the beautifully made Amish made oak box to the project. I almost hated to put holes in it, but the electrons needed a way to get to the little engine and old style brass lug type terminals seemed a good way to let them travel.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/final-box.jpg)
Here are the internals of the system. They consist of 3 AA 1.5 volt alkaline batteries, a small on / off switch for them and an ignition module complete with coil from www.cncengines.com . Roy Sholl is the proprietor and I can tell you that he couldn't possibly have been more helpful. He was available for questions and patiently answered each one even when I must have sounded like a total rube. The kit was easy to work with and the instructions were quite clear and left no room for confusion. This little module is one powerful little trick and will throw an amazing spark, as I learned while tracking down a arcing short to ground, caused by me. Even though I've not quite gotten the engine running as of yet, it certainly isn't due to a lack of fire.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/final-box-1.jpg)
The other item that was added since last was the cooling system. Since this is a water cooled engine some method of delivering coolant was required. The original design called for a modified cat food can which was elevated to cylinder level. I didn't think that idea would quite match where I've tried to take this project, so a whole new means of delivery was in order. I went through numerous mental designs before finally deciding to keep the pump dead simple as possible. Out the window went all kinds of ideas for eccentric straps, lever actions and such.
The winning design wound up being a spring loaded pump shaft driven by direct contact with an eccentric. The flow was a wild estimate since the darned thing still had to fit beneath the rear shaft. This space limitation finally lead me to a Hobson's choice of a 3/8 bore 3/8 stroke. You'll notice that this item was held until very late in the project, giving you some idea of how long and how many times the idea was changed, altered re-modified and scrapped resurrected and generally over cogitated. Here is a photo of what I finally did.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/final-pump-detail.jpg)
The "balloon" shaped dome is a water hammer column which was added to give the rigid pluming a bit of added protection from vibration. I can't stop the engine from shaking the pipes, but I didn't want the pump adding to it. The flanges are machined fit and required no gaskets although the threads going into the pump and the water jacket are treaded and required a bit of blue loctite to stop a couple of very persistent leaks..... 6 complete plumbing tear downs worth....LOL.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/final-pumpside.jpg)
The brass mesh in the small tank serves as a cooling screen where water trickles down the sides and is exposed to ambient air temperatures to cool it. It is then recirculated to the pump. The copper lines were bent and shaped and then threaded with a 1/4- 28. Soft copper is an interesting metal to work with since it is soft and gummy but tends to work harden very quickly when you begin to torture it. What felt like metaling chewing gum can very suddenly become quite brittle and hard to thread.
Here is the result of the first successful test of the cooling system. I say first successful because it took a bit of trial and error to get the right design for the check (clack) valves it required. I even managed to hide them inline using the same designs as I used in the flanged joints. Once valve is locate at the tank base and the other is inside the flange that screws into the water jacket. Look closely and you can see the water flowing onto the screen mesh.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/final-water.jpg)
The rest of the photos are of different angles of the engine.
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/final-waterside.jpg)
(http://cedesign.net/steam/images/misc/victorian/final-carbside.jpg)
I've already begun the effort to get it dialed in and early indications are that it will eventually run. I've managed to get it to produce a bit of smoke and at one point had it giving me a bit of a popping from the exhaust. I've got to get he timing and fuel mixture sorted out, but I have some local help lined up should it prove to be beyond my kin.
This has been a marvelous project and sharing it has been pure joy. You've all been extremely supportive and the enthusiasm has been gratifying. The next time you see this engine will be in the video section, once it is up and running. Thank you all for taking this trip with me. Without you peering over my shoulder there were a couple of times I might have shelved the project. The fact that you were here kept things moving along, and for that I am very appreciative.
Until the next build....
Steve
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Steve,
THANK YOU..... :thumbup:
Sorry...... Can`t say ner more than that! ::)
David D
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Now that is one busy looking engine!! :thumbup:
It'll be a treat to see it running :)
Very nice build there Steve, have fun with the timing :smart:
Happy that you took the time to post for all of us. :nrocks:
I think I'll go back and look at what the original looked like now, still haven't seen it.... Should be interesting?!
Ralph.
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Shoulders sagging, dragging myself into a dark corner to hide forever.
Steve, that is one of the nicest looking, and well made and designed small engines I have seen in a long time. A real credit to yourself in the short time you have been making engines.
John
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Stupendous Steve, a real work of art :beer:
Really looking forward to the video
CC
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Very inspirational Steve...one day...maybe...that's some talent to aspire too..... :bow:
Don't forget the video when the time comes as I think we all wish to see it running...
Well done....what more can I say........... :clap:
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That is very impressive :bugeye:
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Steve,
It's absolutely beautiful. Hope you've got it insured! I've just read about your near disaster and I was trying to think what I would have done apart from go to bed and cry, then be in a really foul mood! It almost brought :( to my eyes and felt sick until I read on. So glad you were able to gather yourself up, pull yourself together and think of a solution. :ddb: :thumbup: :bow: :beer:
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Very nice build Steve. I don't think you can call it "Duclos's Victorian Engine". It should be called "Cedge's Victorian Engine". It's no were near what Philip's engine looks like with all the mods you made.
:bow: BRAVO. :bow:
The video will be the crown jewel in this build series. Can't wait to see that.
You need to take a well deserved vacation now so you can think up on what you're going to build next. :)
Bernd
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Wow man, That is amazing. :bugeye:
I can't wait to see it run.
If you need any help with the ignition let me know, I have experience finding spark :zap:
LOL , You just called , so I rekon I will see it sooner than expected. I better find my rubber gloves and grounding rod.
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:bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:
Man , I got to see the jewel in person. All I can say is Mrs. Cedge is about to have another beautiful piece added to her collection. It seems Steve may lag on the posting at times but I can understand, when he gets finished he has to hand it over. LOL
OK enough picking on Steve, the engine is beautiful and I imagine when its running it will be one of those things that takes a few minutes to wrap your head around, with all that bling spinning and moving at different speeds and directions it will be an eyeful. I can't wait to see whats next.
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All the kind words are enough to make one's head spin. I'm pleased that the engine has met with such a positive reception. One never knows how things will go when starting a build log. This one has, for me, been a total mind blower.
A short update to today's efforts to get it running. John, who I mentioned earlier was gracious enough to host me and the engine today as we tried to get the timing and mixture adjustments sorted out. While we were able to get it to hit, it just wouldn't take off on its own. After a good bit of troubleshooting we discovered that the intake valve is apparently not seating properly.
Since I've lapped the valves for the 3rd time and still have some leakage, I'll be doing a bit of surgery to the heads tomorrow to install a pair of brass seats. This should make it easier to get a proper seal and hopefully a running machine. It really really tried to run today, so I'm quite optimistic about things. We tried it on Coleman fuel and Propane, both of which were "successful" but at very different mixture settings. The Coleman fuel is my choice for the time being.
Tomorrow, the two 2-56 holes will also be drilled and I'll be adding a check valve to the fuel line to keep a nice fresh supply at the intake at all times. I'll also be attempting to modify the tank for use as a vapor carb. If I do it right, I can easily switch from aspiration to vapor or vice versa, whenever the mood strikes.
Getting closer...
Steve
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This post is an update on the ongoing trouble shooting and adjustment phase. Getting everything in balance is proving to be a bit of work, but its been fun and frustration hasn't yet entered the picture. The good news is that the engine now runs!! :beer: :ddb:
For non-technicals, this is about as far as you'll want to read. For those who find birthing pains of interest, read on.
The past week has been a series of near misses. The engine really wanted to run when John and I tried to get it going. However, something was not as it should be and the attempt failed. After a bit of consultation with John and Bill Johnson, I had a better idea of what could be preventing success and went back into the internals of the engine to have a look.
Problem one.... low compression
When making the piston I was used dimensions that were established for use with cast iron rings. After breaking the second set of rings, even before ever getting them near the cylinder, I opted for nitrile "O" rings instead. Rather than cut the piston grooves again, I decided to sand down the O rings to fit. Bad choice. This resulted in very thin rings that eventually stretched under friction, broke and caused a total loss of compression.
Solution.... cut the piston grooves deeper giving me nice fat O rings which were then given a slight flat to seal against the cylinder wall. Add a bit of oil and a good seal was made, and the compression/vacuum improvement was very noticeable.
Problem two....
The valves had been lapped for the 3rd time and they "seemed" to be making a good seal. On a hit and Miss engine, the intake valve has to open under vacuum, which is indicated by a tiny, barely visible "fultter" of the valve spring keeper. This has to happen after each exhaust stroke, even when the flywheel is turned by hand. I knew it was working when the drill motor was applied to turn the engine, but I couldn't be sure about it at low rpm. Bill suggested bluing the seats and getting a better indication of how well the seats were actually lapped. It's an old trick and one I'd used in the past, but had slipped my mind during this build. Lets just say "seemed" was a bad assumption.
Solution....
Tear down the head and use the lathe to turn the valves with a fresh load of grinding compound... add a dash of patience and more mark up dye. Results... nice clean even valve seats and after reassembly, another noticeable leap in compression. Scratch one more itch and add another mark in Steve's column
Problem 3.... not my fault....LOL
I'll be using an ignition module which functions exactly as the typical automobile from the days of breaker points, coils and condensers. These fire when the points open, causing the coil to unload and fire the spark plug. Dead simple... extremely short duration and easily targeted to the timing point you want. Many of these engines are made to use a buzz coil that functions like the old model T ford ignitions. These operate somewhat backwards to what I'll be using. These fire the plug when the points close... not open. The high intensity spark, which you can probably weld exotic alloys with fires as long as the points are closed... ie.. across the whole flat of the ignition breaker cam.
John is a fan of the buzz coil and since he was a little dubious about my ignition system, opted to use the much stronger buzz coil. This proved to be both a good attempt and a bad solution.
Oddly.... the two systems use opposite sides of the breaker cam's flat to high point transition... one system fires as things close... the other system fires as the points open. Here is where duration of the breaker cam becomes a problem. My engine was designed for the system I'm now using, rather than the buzz coil. The 3/8 face of the flat allowed the fire to overlap into the intake phase of the stroke as well as wanting to fire at an extremely high advance setting, holding well past top dead center.
A change made to the breaker cam to cut its duration by half "helped" but was not a complete success. I finally went back to the original cam and abandoned the buzz coil. This let me dial in and hit the sweet spot in the timing, using the system I' was going to use in the end.... add another mark to my column.
Problem 4....
Fuel mixture.... I'd made the carb to spec but it is a touchy little beggar. I had doubts about it so I took it off and modified my fuel tank for use as a Vapor carb. After having a bit of near success, Zeusrekning and I were not feeling warm and fuzzy with it, so I replaced it, once again with the original aspiration set up. The problem there is that I'd modified the carb a wee bit to possibly become a means to add air to the vapor carb when needed. Bottom line, the needle was shorter and adjustment was a bit limited.
After a number of "almosts" we began to wonder if air flow was being restricted, so I turned the carb core a bit to give us more incoming air flow. More "almosts" later Tim and I called a day. Later in the evening I swapped the ignition systems and ran the needle valve all the way in, figuring to start from scratch when I next had time to play.
Today I knew I'd be tied up with family events from early morning until well into the afternoon. While waiting on my wife to finish getting the grandson ready to go, I put the battery powered drill motor to the engine and pulled the trigger. To my amazement, the engine sprung to life and ran for the better part of 15 seconds.... Cedge is now totally chuffed and knows he won't get to play for hours to come....(sigh)
Fast forward to this evening and I've had the engine running as long as 5 minutes before friction. due to heat, stops it. I've got the cooling system off the machine. so it will be reinstalled tomorrow and we'll see if a bit of heat reduction will add to the running times. Then its time to add the governor back into the mix, which already appears will need a bit of tweaking, now that I have some idea of the speeds the engine at which it will be running.
It's ongoing, but I'm stomping on bugs, probably driving my advisers completely nuts and generally having more fun than the law allows. Sorry there are no photos, but the recent action has been quite fluid and very fast, while the subject matter has not been very photogenic. I'll try to do better when video time rolls around.
Steve
(Cheshire possum grin firmly affixed) :)
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Well done that man :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: and have a few nana's too :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
I knew you'd get it going, now I cant wait to see a Video of it running ( where's the "this thread is worthless without Video" smiley? )
It's gonna take something to wipe the grin off your face I'm sure.
Tim
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Well done Steve :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Can't waite to see the video, thats one special engine :thumbup:
Have fun
Stew
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VERY well done Steve! :clap: :clap: :clap:
I can almost see that grin from here..... :D :)
David D
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Well done steve. Can't wait to see the video!
Nick
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Steve - :clap: :bow:
Can't wait to see a video of it running :poke: :D
Arnold
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Well Steve, I noticed a few more gray hairs when I woke up yesterday. But it was a ton of fun.
Guys, we had that lil engine as close to running as you can get with out actually running. You could roll the flywheel around by hand it it would pull itself out of my hand. But just couldn't bring itself around for the next stroke. But that buzz coil would throw a beautiful blue spark even at a .020" gap.
Oh yeah, I did manage to get lit up myself the first time i touched the engine. :zap:
Then Steve laughed and got bit himself.
Then of course I made a smart comment and got bit again.
This went back and forth for a while. But just added to the fun.
It is going to be a beautiful sounding engine and should throw awesome little puffs of smoke.
I had a great time and look foward to doing it again.
Tim
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The good news is that the engine now runs!!
After all the other work put into it, was there ever any doubt? Just a matter of time.
Looking forward to the video.
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Awww shucks gang... I just like my metal to shine a little....LOL. It really doesn't add that much more time or effort to go the extra distance. Besides... with abrasives on the shelf ranging from coarse cut files to sandpaper with less than 1.0 micron grit on hand, I gotta use it somewhere.
lovely piece of art there
At the end of the day, isn't that really what these engine builds are about? A wee bit of unique art to be shared with others?
John...
The ashes might be mine..... if it doesn't run after all the work...(grin) You are right on one point. Anyone can do the hand contouring if they just get past the "can't be done" thought process. It's a lot restrictive than hitting a mark at .0005 and the results are a finished item that is "yours" from end to end. Making it uniquely "mine" is a whole lot of my motivation.
<OT comment....> The DRO's I recently bought out of Hong Kong are a godsend. They've made this project much easier and enjoyable than it might have been. When the drawing says put the hole "here" the 5 decimal places gives a lot of confidence that "here" is exactly where you are.... and no more doubts about center lines....(big grin). I'm also hooked on the Bolt Circle function..... sssswwweeeeeeeett. No need to set up the RT.... in fact I was done with the first 4 holes before I could have even set up the RT. </OT comment....>
Steve
Cedge, thanks for the link to your build log, I'm enjoying it tremendously, and have to say the "shiney" is top notch work. I too have recently taken on a DRO on my mill and use is extensively, but mine is limited to .0005 inches accuracy and increments, mind telling me what sort has the .00005 capacity? I bought the cheapest one I could find, as it was all I could afford, but it is miles ahead of working without it, it is worth the whole price just for bolt circles, in my opinion. :thumbup: mad jack
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Jack
Thanks for the kind comments. I'm pleased to hear you've enjoyed the journey. I know that I sure have.
Truthfully, if you're already working at the half a thou level, it's probably not worth the money to go for the extra decimals. I've got mine working to 5 decimal places, simply because I'm crazy enough to fiddle with it to hit Zero in the tenths slot. You can't believe how small a movement that is on the wheels. It's great for marking out and for hitting the mark for holes, whether liner or circular patterned, but most of these model engines never require that level of accuracy.
That being said, I bought mine from these guys. Excellent purchasing experience but you'll need a Chin-english dictionary when you install it. Documentation suffers from translations....(grin) I've yet to hear regrets from those who've bought on my recommendation. Lots of features and high quality components make it a pretty attractive deal.
Steve
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John
After crashing the first gear, the second also bit the dust in the same manner. Repeated cuts on the RT were pretty mind numbing. Since the second gear died while under the final dimensional cut, I took the advice of a user on HMEM and tried the cut in a single pass. The drill rod cutter was up for it and the mill didn't complain any more than when it was taking smaller cuts. 28 passes later I had a much cleaner looking gear than when I was making multiple passes and it meshed well enough to begin the lapping in process. The gears are now running together without any extreme drag and what there is should disappear once I can put the gears under power for a final run in.
Interesting project and I'll do it again when required, but I'd rather eat molten glass than do it for a living....(grin). There are kinder methods for driving men to madness. Hi Cedge, I just finished cutting a spur gear to mesh with a worm in a driving motor for a portable valve seat replacing machine, I almost just wrote off the driver, having finished the replacing of the seats, and doing the valve job in my mill, but the fact that the spur gear with the teeth set at the helix angle of the worm lasted twenty years of my own use, and perhaps a few hundred seats cut out, I decided to cut it as a spur gear and follow the less than best way that was originally used. I ground a tool bit rather than buy a twenty five buck cutter, but was foolish enough to use one of my regular flycutters, so the angles for the grinding were rather a bit of interesting work, I'm making a straight out fly cutter for gears, when I get a moment, but I had real doubts about cutting the teeth with a single pass as so many people have written. I found, like you, the quality of the gear was vastly improved by a full depth cut on all the teeth, and no problems at all shown by the flycutter, cutting in aluminum bronze, to a depth of .091 for fifty one teeth. After it was cut, I found I liked the curve on one side of the upper end of the teeth better than the other side, flipped the gear around on the arbor, set the cutter into a tooth slot, increased the depth of cut by a thousandth, and cut all fifty one teeth again, and it works great in the driver motor, has full power I haven't felt in years, and completely changes my trepidation over cutting gears with a flycutter. I've got three or four cutters which I have bought for the making of a single gear, and no longer feel that is necessary. By the way, that is one shiny engine you've got going together there, about elegant enough for me to make one for my mom, for her table. Absolutely a beaut!! :jaw: mad jack
Steve
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Jack...
Once you've taken on a gear or two, the fear factor goes way down. I'm going to build up a set of hobs when i get the time. after seeing how they work, I'd be nuts to stick with the single tooth cutter. That might be just the ticket for when I finish my current build. No less mind numbing, but the hob does come a little closer to a true involute end product.
Steve :proj:
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Very nice build Steve. I don't think you can call it "Duclos's Victorian Engine". It should be called "Cedge's Victorian Engine". It's no were near what Philip's engine looks like with all the mods you made.
:bow: BRAVO. :bow:
The video will be the crown jewel in this build series. Can't wait to see that.
You need to take a well deserved vacation now so you can think up on what you're going to build next. :)
Bernd
Hi Cedge, I have to agree with Bernd, this is definitively a "Cedge's Victorian Engine", with all your unique attributes you added. I have to say, the brass screen in the aluminum water tank looks much better than the brass water tank. Somehow the aluminum of the tank goes with the "white metal" of the basic engine, with the brass screen accentuating the vast amounts of brass and bronze that go so well with beautifully polished aluminum. You expand the meaning of "form following function", and give it new luster as the "form" makes so much impact on the senses. :jaw: :thumbup: mad jack
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Jack...
Once you've taken on a gear or two, the fear factor goes way down. I'm going to build up a set of hobs when i get the time. after seeing how they work, I'd be nuts to stick with the single tooth cutter. That might be just the ticket for when I finish my current build. No less mind numbing, but the hob does come a little closer to a true involute end product.
Steve :proj:
Cedge, for decades, I've cut single and double, and an occasional three or more teeth, fixing a machine, matching the teeth cut by hand with saw and file, to the profile of the rest, and feeling when they are right. I've even cut a 96 tooth gear by hand with a hacksaw and a japanese saw file, when in Japan, and couldn't access a mill, but all that was a matter of "feel", when I was done, and little or no repeatability. Actually cutting gears where the teeth all look the same, and feel the same is a whole new ball game, and far different from matching a couple new teeth to the way all the others perform. I have to say, I've had doubts about methods show for setting up flycutters for cutting teeth that have been put to rest completely now. By the way, that was a rather remarkable save on the cam gear, I've used a similar set up to get things in alignment in the lathe, when I worked on electronics in the Corps, I tore apart all the small gear motors I removed from service, and kept things like bearings and such, and have a drawer full of small to very tiny bearings, and have one on the end of a bar just as a pusher, as you describe. When's the video for the Victorian engine being released? mad jack
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Here Ya go Jack.....
&hl=en&fs=1&
Steve
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Just beautiful to watch :thumbup: :clap: :clap: :clap:
cheers Graham
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Way to go Cedge :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: the videos are great, the engine sounds and looks fantastic running, the valve gear connecting the exhaust to the cam and valve, along with the action of the governor makes for a most interesting looking running, you can see it very clearly holding open the exhaust, during the "miss" portion of the cycle, a beautiful build, an amazing recovery with the crash of the cam, and such, and with all your own touches, definitively "Cedge's Victorian Engine", unique unto its self, makes me wish I'd built it myself. A real demonstration of fine craftsmanship :bow: :bow: :bow: mad jack
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Hello,
I'm a relatively new member as well as new to machining, and have to say I spent a loooong time reading this post from start to finish.
The only possible comment one can make is amazing - what a beautiful piece of machinery you've built and from what little I know about the design, this is definitely your special version that would be hard to replicate.
In several posts I noted comments about your only starting recently - do you mind telling me how long you've been doing this? I doubt I would ever be able to do such fine work but at least it gives me something to aim for.
All the best,
Mike
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Jack...
The kind of support you and the others on the boards have given me has been the stuff dreams are made of. The range of emotional response has run the gamut from surprise, to humility and even embarrassment, but I've loved every moment.
When the project began, I had doubts that it would ever be successful, mostly because IC engines were a whole new territory for me. As things progressed, the encouragement from everyone spurred me to keep going and trying to innovate. the little engine you see was the result.
I' got to show it at a few local shows last year and those who know engines were blown away, while those who didn't still admired it's unique look. That by any measure is a successful build. I can only hope the current build will be as well received. Thanks to you and to all who enjoyed the experience. It made it far more fun for me as well.
Mike...
This is my 4th season actively using my machines. I began with making tooling and then started my first engine project only after I began hanging out on the forums. I knew zero about machining metal and spent lots of late nights self teaching and even more late nights after I found this place and HMEM and found answers to questions and problems I'd been having. I owe a lot of what I've learned to the fact that I'm not afraid to ask newbie questions and then apply what the old timers were willing to share. I'm pretty much limited to warm weather operations, so the actual time spent is hard to really estimate.
Steve
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Steve,
Well, after almost two years I don't expect to be doing anything like this in a few more years - more likely never!
Great work and even more so in the short time you've been machining, congratulations!
Mike
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Mike...
I took on a project I called the Water Pressure Engine (http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=1714.0), back year before last. I, like you felt a bit less than in control of the machines. Add to that the fact that the project had no drawings and was to be built from inside my head, you can imagine I was feeling like I was in over my head.
Bogstandard reminded me that all I needed to do was make one part. When it was right, make another. Once I stopped trying to build the whole engine and began making that open part, things got much easier. It let me relax and something amazing began to happen. I passed some unmarked point in my journey where I began to feel like I was in control of the machines and could make them do what I wanted, with a little thought before taking action. As I worked, that feeling became stronger as my confidence grew.
The point of all that is to say, this. Somewhere along the line, you'll crest a point where it all begins to click and make sense. It's an almost Zen like feeling and you'll know it when you experience it. From there, not much will stop you from achieving whatever you want o do. My own moment came when I managed to make a particularly difficult cut to the rocker saddle of the water engine. It had to be spot on or the engine would be a failure. I took time to "mentally machine" the piece several times (including while sound asleep) and then I carefully attacked the metal. The piece turned out perfectly and my learning curve suddenly passed an important "peak".
It'll come. Just keep at it until it also clicks with you. I build to please my eye, not to set any standards for others. Find your own "eye pleasing" level and work to meet it. The additional bling I bring to my projects is there to satisfy an itch I got from seeing German craftsmen turning out incredible jewels..... after years of apprenticeships. I set that level of work as my own personal goal.... one that I might never achieve, but you can bet I'll be trying....(grin)
Steve
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Steve, I understand the water engines were suprisingly uncommon but I did recently see a building which contains the minimal remains of at least one and possibly three more.
They were used in a warehouse in Oamaru, New Zealand, for lifting grain sacks to upper floors. Unfortunately the engines were discarded some decades ago and replaced with electric motors the only relics remaining are the curved base blocks and the bearings that support a lay shaft for the electric motors.
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Steve,
Thanks for the support and especially the concept of doing 'one piece' - I have a tendency to multi-task and end up bouncing all over the place. Indeed, I was looking at the plans for an engine as an entity, not a collection of individual parts to be made one piece at a time.
I'm slowly getting up to speed on what (and what not!) my machines can do - right now they're capabilities are way ahead of my abilities, but each time I do something I'm learning a bit more.
If I eventually build anything that remotely approaches what you've done, I'll be more than happy.
Best,
Mike
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Hi Mike,
I got my first mill about 2yrs ago, in reality I've not made anything awesome on it, just bits and bobs really. Looking back I remember the awful finishes and ruined cutters. Some snapped, erm, quite a few snapped :clap:
Now I can chuck a lump of steel in the mill and murder it without damaging a cutter .... next stop ... precision ... but I'd like a DRO first.
The last two years I have spent mainly collecting old affordable tools for the workshop and re-working them to fix what needs fixing. Made a bit of tooling on the way. But I can now at least make or mod something with relative success and that is very satisfying, to me at least.
I'm hankering after another big project, either another car build (I built a Lotus 7 from scratch) or another GSXR1100 strip tune and re-build. I've done it before with hardly any tooling compared to what I have now.
Now I have the tools and even better some good ones for what I'd like to do ...
Have a look here, it's doesn't really explain the extent I went to with these vehicles, or others missing from those pages, but I think that's where my passion lays as I'm hankering to have another go .... :dremel:
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/darren.dean/
What I'm trying to say is, go slowly and it will all fall into place in time ... :thumbup:
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Hello Darren,
Thanks so much for your words of encouragement and sharing your experience.
To the newbies such as myself on this forum, the quality of work posted is at such a high level, it's intimidating! I'm in that mode you describe of murdering chunks of metal and damaging the equipment. Thankfully, it's becoming less and less, but I still have a problem making a piece that exactly meets the spec, or for that matter, comes close to the spec. :doh:
I've done much the same as you over the last two years, i.e. getting together affordable equipment and refurbishing to useful condition. Made a bit of tooling, (not much but it's still working :bugeye:) and now looking for my first real project - a small engine of one kind or another. I'm getting a bit of static from SWMBO about 'what are you going to do with all this stuff!
One thing is massively evident - this forum is probably the most receptive, supportive and congenial one I've found and I expect if one asks for help it will be forthcoming - good to have such an effective parachute in the event of the inevitable mistakes.
Again, thanks for your words of encouragement.
All the best,
Mike
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Mike...
I took on a project I called the Water Pressure Engine (http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=1714.0), back year before last. I, like you felt a bit less than in control of the machines. Add to that the fact that the project had no drawings and was to be built from inside my head, you can imagine I was feeling like I was in over my head.
Bogstandard reminded me that all I needed to do was make one part. When it was right, make another. Once I stopped trying to build the whole engine and began making that open part, things got much easier. It let me relax and something amazing began to happen. I passed some unmarked point in my journey where I began to feel like I was in control of the machines and could make them do what I wanted, with a little thought before taking action. As I worked, that feeling became stronger as my confidence grew.
The point of all that is to say, this. Somewhere along the line, you'll crest a point where it all begins to click and make sense. It's an almost Zen like feeling and you'll know it when you experience it. From there, not much will stop you from achieving whatever you want o do. My own moment came when I managed to make a particularly difficult cut to the rocker saddle of the water engine. It had to be spot on or the engine would be a failure. I took time to "mentally machine" the piece several times (including while sound asleep) and then I carefully attacked the metal. The piece turned out perfectly and my learning curve suddenly passed an important "peak".
It'll come. Just keep at it until it also clicks with you. I build to please my eye, not to set any standards for others. Find your own "eye pleasing" level and work to meet it. The additional bling I bring to my projects is there to satisfy an itch I got from seeing German craftsmen turning out incredible jewels..... after years of apprenticeships. I set that level of work as my own personal goal.... one that I might never achieve, but you can bet I'll be trying....(grin)
Steve
Cedge, while my comment is on a different engine, I am currently going through the exact same process regarding the crank shaft for the radial engine build. It is extremely sensitive, I've made two or three of each part of the eight or nine part crank, and I am still at a point where it is not right yet. I finished putting the latest set of pieces together last night, knowing they are not aligned, and won't be, but did so anyway, in order to have the crank shaft in front of me to mentally machine it so I can come up with a suitable method which will give me the accuracy it absolutely demands and has yet to yield. I am getting perilously close to trying out that "surface grinding idea" of Lautard's if I don't find joy soon, but you are entirely right, when the moment is right, and everything comes together, it is very "Zen-like" and calm prevails. mad jack