MadModder
Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: Darren on January 30, 2009, 03:15:36 PM
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Hi, Just bought a Lister 6/1 genset,
No idea of condition, price was right so if need be it will be stripped and rebuilt.
I've seen so many of these last of late, some running, some sat in fields, some out on the side of the road !! And a few other beautiful types of engines all fully restored. All in my home village. But could I get anyone to part with one.... :bang:
Finally I have, well he did have six of the 6/1's plus a few other types knocking around the "garden" would you believe...
Collect on Sunday....
Oh and I've seen a few cracking workshops too. Can't say I've made any friends though as peeps tend to be a bit suspicious of starngers ooin' an' arin' at their prized machinery..!!
Quite right too...I'd be the same
This is the type
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=q0VCoX9L75I
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=tQZ2Fds-924&feature=related
Darren
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Great Find Darren :thumbup:
Look forward to the rebuild.
Cheers
:wave:
Stew
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Bit of a day out, all of about two miles away :lol: collecting the lister.
Here you can see the one we've picked out from the three you can see in this picture. There were other engines out of shot too...
Meet Emyr, my helper for the day...
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Collecting%20The%20Lister/IMG_0517.jpg)
Now let me tell you how much these weigh,
A lot more than I had imagined !! These things are seriously heavy. Two of us couldn't even pick the genny up never mind anything else.
Lots of heaving, pry bars, rollers and winches and we had the bugger cornered....
Chap was kind enough to lend me his trailer, the winch on it really helped enormously..
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Collecting%20The%20Lister/IMG_0522-1.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Collecting%20The%20Lister/DSC00050-1.jpg)
We let the trailer tilt backwards to let gravity help us. The engine is on a small trolley and restrained by the trailers winch, Letting it down slowly and gently was the key.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Collecting%20The%20Lister/DSC00051.jpg)
Now she's safely down and we can relax......
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Collecting%20The%20Lister/DSC00052.jpg)
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I'm a bit jealous of you there Darren.
People here in the states would go crazy over something like that. They'd use it to generate their own power. By the way is that a diesel engine?
Bernd
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Hi Darren
Good find pleased to see you got the weighty problem sorted :wave: it's all about planning getting the right kit and taking it slowly great job :clap:
Now get stripping it down :poke:
Cheers
:wave:
Stew
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Darren,
Lovely find, enjoy the rebuild.
My nephew used to restore old engines like that, ended up with about 20 of them, all different makes and models. Did the rounds at the steam rallies.
If ever one of the flywheels falls off, don't throw it away, I can make lots of little engines out of it. :dremel: Mind you, with it being a 'modern' engine, it just might be made of cast steel.
John
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I believe they are cast iron John as they can crack if you hit them too hard trying to get them off.
All the same, keep ya beady eyes off em :lol:
What a diff from the glorious sunshine of yesterday to the bitter snap of today. We've got several inches of snow outside and the roads are blocked here. (too many hills to drive in snow)
So not a lot done. But playing last night I can report that the engine is not seized, turns very freely and has compression. The bore looks good as well, no scores anyway.
A few things were stuck fast. namely the rocker cover hand nut, the compression changer screw, the valve lifter solenoid and linkages and the fuel pump linkages.
A good soak in penetration oil overnight and all is now free except the fuel pump linkage. Actually I'm not sure if this is seized as I don't really now how it works, it might be OK.
After many hours scouring the net for info I'm still at a loss....oh well, I'll prob have to take it off and strip it down to see how it works.
If I can figure the fuel pump it'll most likely run once I can supply some fuel to it.
No pic's, it's too cold and bitter outside to go and take any !!
Darren
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It seems one of the most difficult tasks with the Lister CS is removing the flywheel gib keys. They can become pretty stuck over time.
Inspired by this commercial gismo I decided to make my own. They state 10mm thick steel so I followed suit.
(http://www.stationaryengineparts.com/images/gib_key_pullerMKII.JPG)
Starting with a piece of scrap it was cut into a basic shape using the bandsaw and chopsaw.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0553.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0555.jpg)
Setting it up in the four jaw chuck using my improvised center/punch.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0559.jpg)
Biggest drill I have 13mm
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0562.jpg)
Then bored to size. The crankshaft is 2" and the gib protrudes 200 thou or 0.2" so I bored to 2.2"
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0563.jpg)
Reversed the chucks jaws and turned the outer edge to just under 4" and marked the approx center
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0568.jpg)
Marked and punched ready to drill and tap three holes for a 10mm thread.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0569.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0570.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0571.jpg)
This gib key has a head in order to help with removal.....that's a joke in itself. We need to get our puller over this so a slot needs milling to facilitate this.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0582.jpg)
The work/puller now being round and difficult to hold in a vice I held it down with a single bolt and flat bar. The plywood is sacrificial to allow machine just beyond the full thickness of the puller body.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0573.jpg)
That's all done now and ready to go. Install some 10mm bolts and fit over crankshaft
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0575.jpg)
Turn puller into position
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0576.jpg)
Tighten bolts and bend puller. Yep, that's right, it bent like butter. The Gib key didn't even break a sweat....!!
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0577.jpg)
Oh dear, that didn't work, :bugeye:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0583.jpg)
What to do next?
Make a stronger puller, thicker, much thicker??
Maybe with this, not sure what it is, it's not rolled looks sorta cast to me. I know it's heavy I can barely carry it. Might be a tad to big for my lathe though.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0588.jpg)
Question for the board, would cast iron be suitable for use as a puller? If it is cast iron. I'd hate to cut this up unnecessarily.
Edit: 20/02/09
I have received a complaint for this posting from the manufactures from whom I sourced this idea.
There was never any intention on my part to upset anyone or discredit any commercial products.
I loosely based my efforts around their puller design and made it from 10mm as stated on their web page. Mine failed by bending under pressure.
BUT...I am talking about my efforts, nobody elses.
Since my posting they have now updated their website to indicate that they have increased their tool material to 13mm thickness, and then again to a current size of 18mm. This would indicate they were having the same results as I.
However, with a stock material of 18mm I would have no reason from my own personal experience to doubt that this would now be more than man enough to tackle the task in hand.
If you read my further posts down the page you will see that I came up with a slightly different solution. It's just one way to tackle the job, these engines have been around for many decades and no doubt there are many ways to skin a cat.
If anyone has been offended as a result of these posting I do sincerely apologise, it was never intended.
Best wishes
Darren
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Probably not. Cast will crack. Maybe double up the thickness (2 rings) to help avoid the bending?
Make what you did before, but put two bolts on either side of the key. You don't need them evenly spaced, just two right on either side of the point you're pulling.
If you have access to one, use a pulley puller over the ring. Put one jaw of the puller right behind the key. Tighten, then tap the end with a hammer. Rinse and repeat.
Edit: after looking again, I'd make a ring slightly larger (once again, 2 thichness for strength?), and put two bolts in. One goes right over the key (like it shows in the first pic), so it's putting pressure right on the key. Another 180 degrees from that, to keep the ring square to the shaft. After tightening a bit, tap the key with a small hammer. Tap, don't bash it! You're trying to induce vibration to break the bond, not whack it out of shape. Tighten some more, tap. Slowly work it out. Once it starts to give, it should slide right out.
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Darren,
Rleete got in a few seconds before me, but I am not going to modify the post, some bits are just repeated.
Very much doubt if the cast iron would hold, it can take compression but not distortion. It will just snap.
The normal method for removal of tapered keys is a pair of wedges wacked home behind the key head :hammer:
You might be able to use a small bar with a tapped hole either side of the head and use that to jack it out. Your method left too much material between the bolt holes, so it bent.
That sometimes doesn't work, so what you have to do is drill down the centre bit of the key, to allow it to collapse slightly and try again with the extraction process. Maybe you could try drilling before wacking in the tapers. If you have already broken the head off, you can tap the hole out and use a long bolt and a large heavy block with a hole thru it as a slide hammer.
They can sometimes be a real ba**ard to get out if they have been in there any length of time, and you just have to do the best you can at times, without damaging the surrounding area. Sometimes you can free them off by knocking the flywheel further onto the shaft, but you have to be very careful you don't damage the flywheel, otherwise I will have enough material for little engines for many years.
Tapered keys are classed as sacrificial, and you just cut and file up a new one when you are ready to assemble. The dimensions can be found from this chart
http://www.ecs.umass.edu/mie/labs/mda/dlib/mech_comp/keys/taper_key.html
John
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Rleete got in a few seconds before me, but I am not going to modify the post, some bits are just repeated.
Great minds think alike? :wave:
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Thanks Guys,
I did think about drifts, but after reading up about them it seems that they can take the gib heads off a bit too easily. Mind you that's not to say my contraption won't do the same.
I kept one bolt next to the gib, I can see now two either side would have been better as you say.
So, find some more material and make a thicker puller then.
I'm only pulling it off so I can clean it all down to re paint. Maybe I should leave be.
If it ain't broke sort of thing.....
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Just a thought gent's.... Heat and loads of WD derivative, leave for a few days heat again and try it hot and as stated tap it between turns of the bolts.....?
I know heat can distort etc, but localised (oxy/acetylene) it nearly always does the trick on stuck car componants!
Then there is always the BBH for the last resort :hammer: ..... (Bloody Big Hammer! :D )
Ralph.
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Hi Ralph,
Nice idea, but I have read heat and spinning cast iron is a no-no. Heat can change the iron enough for it to let go at speed at a later date apparently.
70kg at 1000 rpm could be interesting?
I don't know how true this theory is though?
Apart from that this is some lump to heat with lots of cooling surfaces.
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I was thinking more of heating the shaft and gib not the wheel.... That's a big puppy as you say!
No issue, maybe a week in WD... Or even diesel for that matter?! Couldn't hurt!?
Ralph.
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Darren,
Nothing spectacular required for the puller, just get as thick a material as you can to sit in the slot.
If you can, get the bolt hole centres on the same line as the top of the key. That will ensure that you are getting the maximum force onto the key head and the shear load is as low down on the head as possible.
C-o-C
John
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Hi Darren
Can't add to anything chaps have said aleardy
Just keep trying different things and you'll win in the end
Good luck.
Stew
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Thanks guys for the food guys, I can see where I went wrong. I'll have another go later when I have sourced some more steel to fabricate. I only need a little bit but I just aint got it right now :bang:
But not wanting to sit still I have tackled another area....next post coming right up... :D
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Keywords for non members outside the forum to find this post,( Lister CS 6/1 fuel pump service repair strip clean and rebuild repair )
Today I decided to take a better look at the fuel pump. I had concerns over this unit as I couldn't move the rack which governs the speed of the engine. Essentially it was seized.
I have scoured the net for info over the last few days and although there is information out there, none of it is very clear to a novice like myself. I even found the manufactures exploded diagrams somewhat misleading and still didn't explain how to actually strip and service these units.
So, the best way to learn is to strip the unit down and do some exploring....
However, armed with little information it has taken me all day and evening to strip clean and re-assemble this unit. Now I've done it, and figured out how it does it's job it would be a fairly simple matter to tackle this again in under an hour or so.
Having seen many, far too many, questions on this subject on various engine forums "ALL" of which gave little help and no pictures I have decided in the Madmodder spirit to put a post together with lots of pictures. We like pictures here, but in this case I'm hoping that it may save someone the grief of going at it blind.
If you are not into engines (yeah right!!) then the rest might bore you,
My Seized Lister fuel pump....this is a Bryce BOAB unit, yours may be a CAV unit but from what I can tell they are very similar.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Pump/IMG_0590.jpg)
On the bench, this is a back view showing the piston cylinder locating screw 4
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Pump/IMG_0610.jpg)
Manufactures exploded diagram, Refer to this for part no's
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Pump/BryceFBOAB.jpg)
First things to take off are the top fuel pipe fitting 20 followed by 21,17,19,16, (note, 16 it two parts making up a none return valve, be very careful not to drop and loose the smaller part) and the circlip 14 at the bottom along with the bucket 13. The rest should fall out, be careful and try your best to note what goes where. Best to take lots of pictures for reference.
However, if your unit is anything like mine all the internals will be stuck fast and you'll have no idea which bit to tease out first. This makes disassembly rather difficult for fear of breaking something. As I said earlier it took me hours to get all the bits out. Not because any of them were difficult, but more because of fear of damaging something.
These bits should fall out the bottom, in this order, collet retainer 12, spring 11, and spring seat 10.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Pump/IMG_0629.jpg)
Followed by these, pinion 9 and piston 3. This is where the manufactures diagram becomes really misleading as item 3 is actually two separate parts. The piston which has a helix machined into it and the piston bore which has the fuel delivery bore in it. One comes out through the bottom and the other comes out the top. The piston bore does not move and is fixed in place by a locating screw 4 at the rear of the casting. The piston and bore have a very close tolerance and therefore subject to seizure at the slightest provocation. This is what was seized on my unit and not the rack 6 and pinion 9 as originally suspected.
This is why you should not force the rack side to side with a hammer or some such implement in an effort to free things up.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Pump/IMG_0612.jpg)
If these bits do not fall out, or can't be easily pulled out then you need to remove the non return valve item 16 next. This might not be easy as the sealing washer may be holding it a bit tight. But it should come out. Be careful not to damage the internal bore of this item or you may have problems in keeping pressure at the fuel injector when running the engine.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Pump/IMG_0636.jpg)
Once this out out you will be able to see the piston inside the bore. They look like one unit but they are not. You can now push the piston out of it's bore from the top using a drift pref a wooden dowel. Do not use metal. It you damage the bore your pump will be ruined and not longer serviceable.
If you can't remove the non return valve to gain access to the piston top you will have to remove the piston from the bottom.
Remember, if this is the case the spring and retainer will still be in place making access difficult. You will have to flip the spring retainer with a screwdriver. This is fairly easy to do, but try not to score the casting. It's not critical, but best be careful all the same.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Pump/IMG_0633.jpg)
After removing the retainer, spring and seat, you should be able to pull the piston out. Remember, this is the bit that is seized, mine was really tight and took some effort.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Pump/IMG_0628.jpg)
Here you can see the piston with the machined helix. Note which way this fits into the bore. Get it 180 deg out and your engine will be spinning at full pelt with no way of slowing it down. The governor will not work at all. The manufactures instructions state the two items (piston and pinion) are marked for orientation. Yep, mine was, only both ways....really helpful I must say.
If you look at the helix and the hole in the piston bore the two should line up when reassembling. That is the helix should face the front of the pump housing.
Indecently mine was back to front, suggesting someone had stripped this before at some time. I've yet to run this engine, so a good job I found this !!
So, now the piston is out, the pinion will fall out too along with the rack 6. Watch you don't drop it !!
That's it, all disassembled.
It turned out that my unit was only gummed up with fuel residue/varnish. A simple clean and reassemble and all was well with everything working as it should.
Ready to go back on the engine
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Pump/IMG_0640.jpg)
Hopefully that didn't send you to sleep :whip: and helps someone sometime.
I could write a re-assembly with how to line it all up, but it's not that hard with a bit of common.
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Beautiful writeup Darren,
I am sure that over the coming years, once the search engines have picked it up, that will become a well used reference article.
It is also a good reminder to label our posts correctly, it makes it easier for other people to find it.
Well done :clap:
John
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Thanks John,
It's the first time I have worked on a diesel fuel pump/governor and although nothing was particularly difficult the hardest part was knowing what exactly was inside and how it came out.
I'm hoping my post reads ok and someone will be able to follow it. Of course it makes much more sense if you have a pump in front of you to relate the information with. All should hopefully be quite clear. Anyways, as usual just a picture or two can really help. :D
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Spot On Darren :thumbup: :clap:
I'm certain there will plenty of people out there who will find that write up very useful
Cheers
:wave:
Stew
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Lister 6/1 Genset Water Coolant Pipework and fittings
Both the inlet and outlet water coolant fittings need some attention and a good tidying up. This is the hot outlet flange to the cooling tank/radiator.
Quite a lot of crud build up around the internal threads that needs removing.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Lister%2061%20Genset%20Water%20Coolant%20Pipework%20and%20fitti/IMG_0596.jpg)
This is the inlet flange and what is left of the original pipework, Looking a bit sorry for itself.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Lister%2061%20Genset%20Water%20Coolant%20Pipework%20and%20fitti/IMG_0598.jpg)
Both units now removed for further inspection.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Lister%2061%20Genset%20Water%20Coolant%20Pipework%20and%20fitti/IMG_0601.jpg)
I used to clean this sort of thing on motorbikes many years ago by hand. It can be quite hard work !!
But now having a lathe will really make light of this. The crud is a mixture of rust and old paper gasket truly welded in place. Glad I'm not doing this by hand :D
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Lister%2061%20Genset%20Water%20Coolant%20Pipework%20and%20fitti/IMG_0602.jpg)
After removing around 30thou we are starting to see some nice clean metal. Although there has been some deeper corrosion/pitting. A little more to go.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Lister%2061%20Genset%20Water%20Coolant%20Pipework%20and%20fitti/IMG_0603.jpg)
This is the other flange with the bit of pipe on it. I shortened the pipe and it's inside the lathe chuck. You can see this flange has much deeper pitting and will need to be removed to ensure a proper seal when re-fitted.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Lister%2061%20Genset%20Water%20Coolant%20Pipework%20and%20fitti/IMG_0605.jpg)
The two flanges now finished and looking a lot tidier. I also used a boring bar to clean the rust crud from inside the pipe and to the threads on the other unit. Once cleaned to the threads a scribe was used to pick the rust within the threads themselves. It's looking better but a 1" BSP tap will be needed to clean them up properly.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Lister%2061%20Genset%20Water%20Coolant%20Pipework%20and%20fitti/IMG_0606.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Lister%2061%20Genset%20Water%20Coolant%20Pipework%20and%20fitti/IMG_0607.jpg)
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Darren
I think I may have a 1" BSP tap, my shops upside down at the moment with the mill move as soon as I get sorted I'll have a look for it, if I have got one you can borrow it with pleasure.
Cheers
:wave:
Stew
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That looks like fun Darren.... It brings back memories of seeing "how it works" on customers cars :bugeye:
... We didn't always have diagrams, so we just had to work it out and remember/work out where everything came from.... Good Job I've got a bit of "The Knack"!! :lol: (Clueless? see"he has the knack" post in the water cooler!)
Looks like your tearing into it anyway :dremel:
I love being able to clean up old parts like that.... Makes you feel all happy :D
I also think I have a tap if you don't and Stew can't find his? I'd have to have a bit of a dig too.... At least to see if I had the correct size?! I purchased a whole load of old taps on e-blag a long time ago and a few large BSP taps were in there.... My dad borrowed one a while back for a job at work... Seemed to do the trick!... I just can't remeber if it went back in the box o bits??? :scratch:
Keep us updated,
Ralph.
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Thanks guys, appreciate the offer as I don't have a suitable size tap in my collection.....mind you though they are not the cheapest taps to purchase it still may be worth getting one of my own as the price is not that high.
But if anyone has a spare, I'll gladly trade some beer/food tokens for it :)
I was going to tear the engine down and do a de-coke and stuff, but now I'm thinking just do enough to get it fired up and go from there.
Have a listen, look to see if any seals are leaking and basic health check...might be wiser to check some stuff before going further into it.
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Making A Fuel Banjo Fitting For the Lister CS 6/1 Engine
On my engine all the fuel lines and fittings are present except for the banjo to the fuel tank.
I could have just bought one but decided to have a go at making it instead. Gotta have some excuse to turn the lathe on :ddb:
I had a piece of 28mm 316 Stainless Steel bar in the scrap box. I could have used 303 instead but I'd never tried machining 316 so I thought why not have a go.
I have read that 316 can be a bit hard and more difficult to machine over 303. But I can't say I noticed any difference? That is untill I tried parting it off.... :bang:
I had collets in 27mm and 30mm but not 28mm. So I used a coke can to make some shims to make the bar fit the 30mm collet.
This is by no means a perfect solution as I found it difficult to true the bar properly. but as you can see I managed :D
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Banjo%20Fitting/IMG_0642.jpg)
First the outer diameter was trued up so that it would match the inner boring to come next. It was turned down to fit the 27mm collet properly for later operations.
The center was drilled and then bored to fit the banjo bolt snugly. Next an inner groove needed to be machined to allow full oil/fuel flow around the banjo bolt.
I didn't have the correct shaped boring tool for this but managed by turning my regular boring bar approx 45 deg.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Banjo%20Fitting/IMG_0645.jpg)
This seemed to work well enough. Next the parting off....what a pig !! The HSS parting tool tip disintegrated very rapidly trying to cut 316. I had to sharpen it four times to get just this one cut done. It's not that clever with 303 SS but nowhere near this difficult.
Note to oneself, I really need to get an index tipped parting tool.... :poke:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Banjo%20Fitting/IMG_0648.jpg)
This is where I ended up tonight, as you can see there is more to do yet.... :whip:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Banjo%20Fitting/IMG_0651.jpg)
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High Darren
It will help with the parting off if you get the work as far back in the collet as you can, with the parting tool as close to the collet as you can, also get the tool as far back in the tool post as you can, keep things nice a ridged. I don't know what speed you used, but don't be frightend to step it up a bit, people have a tendency to run too slow when parting off.
Have Fun
:wave:
Stew
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Hi Stew, nice to see someone is watching..... :wave:
Good comments, as always, though my 30mm collet is partially blind. Spose it needs some metal left in it to keep some strength. So the bar couldn't go any further back.
But, you raise a good point that I'd overlooked. Maybe the parting was much tougher because of the overhang as normally I'd be parting right up by the collet.
Thanks for bringing it up, I'll bear it in mind next time I work with 316. :thumbup:
-
Darren,
Parting off is the thorn in the side of most model engineers.
In industry, if you can't do it, you are out of the door, it is classed as a normal turning job.
Stew has raised some good points, I will add a couple more.
Even if you have a QCTP, never trust it when it comes to parting off. A holder can put the tip of the cutter out of position by a couple of thou. That is enough to cause you major headaches. Always check your tool height before parting off, use the six inch rule trick. If anything the tip should be spot on or very slightly above centreline. If it is even a couple of thou low, the cutting pressures will push it even further down and the tip will usually be snapped off.
Don't play about with it, give it plenty of coolant (if you have it) or squirt some out of a squeezy bottle, and give it a fair speed and push the tip in. As soon as you stop feeding, it is a pig to get cutting again, and that is when jams and breakages occur.
I normally power feed up to mild steel hardness running at least 650 RPM. Any harder, like stainless, and I hand feed, but still at the same sort of rate, and 'feel' how the cut is going, the swarf should be coming off in nice thin ribbons.
Rigidity is paramount to parting off, and your gibs need to be tweaked up fairly tight.
When you come over, remind me, and I will give you a few instructional tips and get you to 'feel' what you are doing.
John
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Thanks John, I'll look forward to it...."a day at Johns is something to look forward to" :)
Thinking about it, bit late now, I'd have been better off turning the bar around and sticking it in the 27mm collet to part it off.
Why didn't I think of that last night? :doh:
Learning every day !!! :ddb:
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Hi Darren
Let us know when your visiting John I only live round the corner and it will be good to meet.
Cheers
Stew
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I have to say I am happy to hear parting off nasty stainless isnt as simple as it is with brass and stainless.
I bought a really nice HSS parting tool for my QCTP and I always have to really get things just right to part the stainless without too much trouble.
ANd yes.. I found you really need to steadily keep that thing shaving.. cause yes.. the nasty offshore boat driveshafts I have that are stainless of some sort.. REALLY dont like to have the parting stopped and re-started.
I have been looking for some time for a parting tool that is carbide, or some sort of index type.
I have a chunk of some sort of hard as hell steel that is ferrous.. because it shows a trace of rust.. and was some sort of jack shaft. That will NOT cut with the HSS. I have to whittle it down with a carbite tip. Or course that isnt parting.. so I have it off to teh side, until I get the tooling and skill to part it properly.
-
Hi Darren
Let us know when your visiting John I only live round the corner and it will be good to meet.
Cheers
Stew
That would be good Stew, I might still borrow that tap if you find it in time... :thumbup:
I have a warm feeling it won't be too long now as someone has been working hard :D
-
A little more done on the banjo fitting tonight... :whip:
A couple of pic's of the item so far fitted over the banjo bolt
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Banjo%20Fitting/IMG_0656.jpg)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Banjo%20Fitting/IMG_0657.jpg)
Marking the center with a scribe block, mark one side and flip it over to do the other side too.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Banjo%20Fitting/IMG_0658.jpg)
Now we have two lines very close together and can judge the center
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Banjo%20Fitting/IMG_0660.jpg)
Find the center in the other directiong
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Banjo%20Fitting/IMG_0659.jpg)
Drilled and tapped to 8mm, (tried it this time with the tap in the miller, felt much better when cutting. Though 8mm is a bigish tap so it would have been easier anyway with less chance of breaking the tap)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Banjo%20Fitting/IMG_0663.jpg)
Cut a little flat relief with a 10mm carbide milling cutter. ( I had the idea at this point of sealing with a small o-ring. But it didn't quite work out, more later)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Banjo%20Fitting/IMG_0665.jpg)
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Now for the other piece to this fitting,
A 10mm SS bar being prepared for threading to 8mm. It's also had the center drilled out to 5.5mm
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Banjo%20Fitting/IMG_0668.jpg)
Two parts threaded together
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Banjo%20Fitting/IMG_0670.jpg)
On the banjo bolt
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Banjo%20Fitting/IMG_0671.jpg)
Piece of hose fitted
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Fuel%20Banjo%20Fitting/IMG_0672.jpg)
Now then a question for the wise ones, I was going to seal the two parts with an 0-ring, but I didn't have a shoulder to compress the o-ring.
So, could SS be soldered? I have a small blow lamp, flux and plumbing solder. Erm, well it's electronics solder to be truthful.
Will it do in this application.
There is no pressure, just gravity fed. That's also why I didn't put any barbs on the fitting to seal the flexible pipe.
-
John..
A little bit of cast iron....for a pound !!! :bugeye:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Lister-Engine-Type-2L-Spec-76L_W0QQitemZ150324541079QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_FarmingEquipment_RL?hash=item150324541079&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A3|65%3A2|39%3A1|240%3A1318
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Great Darren, but look where it has to be picked up from. It would cost 50 squid in fuel alone.
Also I wouldn't think it would be fair to send SWMBO that far, and have to do such heavy lifting when she got there.
:lol:
John
-
I found a snake in my engine :bugeye:
Thankfully not a real one though :lol: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
While on the fuel system I thought it may be a good idea to open up the fuel filter housing and have a look inside. Give a it a clean out and empty any water that may have got inside during it's long sleep outside.
Amazingly there was no water inside and it was half full of fuel !!
And, it was quite clean too...umm
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Lister%20CS%20Fuel%20Filter/IMG_0589.jpg)
It's not rusty, just stained a little
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Lister%20CS%20Fuel%20Filter/IMG_0592.jpg)
The snake, aka fuel filter. All the muck would be on the outside and I couldn't see any....just a little staining....a good sign.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Lister%20CS%20Fuel%20Filter/IMG_0593.jpg)
Interestingly the housing is bolted to the barrel casting. Being a hot place this will be great for running on WVO......it gets better all the time :D
The black and red bits inside are just paint...
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Lister%20CS%20Fuel%20Filter/IMG_0594.jpg)
On the bench
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Fuel%20System/Lister%20CS%20Fuel%20Filter/IMG_0599.jpg)
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Now then a question for the wise ones, I was going to seal the two parts with an 0-ring, but I didn't have a shoulder to compress the o-ring.
So, could SS be soldered? I have a small blow lamp, flux and plumbing solder. Erm, well it's electronics solder to be truthful.
Will it do in this application.
Answered my own question, tried soldering the two parts tonight, it's a no go, the solder just rolls off the stainless steel.
Oh poo!! :(
-
It needs silver solder Darren, plus the right flux. No probs with SS.
If you want to wait until you come over, I'll join it permanently for you. Only takes a couple of minutes.
John
-
Thanks John,
A quick lesson with Silver solder may just come in handy for the future.... :thumbup:
-
Hi Darren,
I just got off my lazy forgetful ass and had a look for that BSP tap..... I thought it was a 1" but I have 2 of 3/4" instead!! :doh:
Are you sure it's not a 3/4" ? .... Cause you can have one of these if it is? :) ..... 1".... That's a monster of a thread!!! :bugeye: (well it is to me ::) )
Ralph.
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Thanks for taking the trouble to look Ralph...much appreciated
Unfortunately I do need a 1" tap not 3/4", Yes It does look big, thankfully I'm only need to clean these threads up a bit and not tap from new :bugeye:
-
Back on the Lister flywheel puller tonight,
I know the previous advice was against cast iron, but, but, while doing a bit of sorting out earlier I found this..well I had it and it looked just right and pretty substantial.
As soon as I saw it I just new I'd have to give it a go...it's a Ford car hub
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0677.jpg)
Knocked the studs and bearings out, (btw the bearing housings look like they may make some half decent parallels if I could figure out how to cut them in half?)
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0679.jpg)
A reminder of the key I'm trying to pull out
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0582.jpg)
Started milling a slot for the key head,
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0681.jpg)
Then decided I needed to cut the hub down a bit so I could get the milling bit closer
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0687.jpg)
Machined really nicely both on the lathe and the miller
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0688.jpg)
I started from this side and then decided I needed to be machining from the other side....doah...!!
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0693.jpg)
So I flipped it over
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0698.jpg)
And ended up with this
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0701.jpg)
Trial fitting over the key head
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0703.jpg)
Turn into position and bingo.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0704.jpg)
Now then, some decisions to make, do I drill as before and use 3 bolts to do the pulling, or do I weld a tube on to really strengthen the whole thing up and pull from the end of the shaft with a single bolt.....oooh I don't like these conundrums !! :scratch:
-
Im thinking a slide hammer...
Weld a tube over it, weld a flat bit on the end, weld a nut to that....
Screw the slide hammer to the nut, and give her a few nice bings, and it should come out...... <knocks on wood>
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Darren,
I personally would drill and tap a hole in this position, and another at 180 degrees, and try to jack it out.
That is the easiest way to start with. Try something more complicated if that doesn't work.
There are cast irons and cast irons, the ones that are used for auto brake and running parts are very strong indeed.
John
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Darren,
Did you by chance come a bit to close with the end mill? I see some marks on the side of the rotor. :scratch:
Bernd
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Darren,
Did you by chance come a bit to close with the end mill? I see some marks on the side of the rotor. :scratch:
Bernd
Well I wanted a "close" finish for the key head. Guess you could say I got exactly that.
In my defense, the casting was a bit uneven and it jumped in the vice :lol:
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Darren,
I personally would drill and tap a hole in this position, and another at 180 degrees, and try to jack it out.
That is the easiest way to start with. Try something more complicated if that doesn't work.
There are cast irons and cast irons, the ones that are used for auto brake and running parts are very strong indeed.
John
I'll give that a try first John....Thanks
I was looking at the pic's later this eve, I could have machined a bit less for the key head, quite a bit less.
Oh well, can't put it back now can I. It should be ok though.
-
Well I wanted a "close" finish for the key head. Guess you could say I got exactly that.
In my defense, the casting was a bit uneven and it jumped in the vice :lol:
:) OK
-
It worked, Wahoo !! It actually worked AND nothing broke either :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
I'm over the moon.... :)
I have to say it was tough though, the high tensile bolts almost gave up, One did and I had to change it.
But the Car hub took it in it's stride. They sure are tough those castings.
Must be really nice cast iron in them, I'll keep a look out for some more. They could make a nice backplate if you could find one with a smaller hole in the center. But I'm sure there could be a way around that.
I found the trick was to tighten both bolts evenly and tight first. Then tighten the bottom one only, thereby acting as a lever with enormous leverage. If you try to tighten the top one alone the bolt will just destroy itself.
Did I say how chuffed I am...... :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0710.jpg)
-
Well done Darren, :clap: :clap: :clap:
All that hard work, just to take out a little bit of metal.
Grins all round :D :D :D
John
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Spot on Darren :headbang: that tamed it :whip:
Did it let go with a crack ?. Or did go quietly
:clap: :clap:
Cheers
Stew
-
ingenious and effective :bow: :bow:...... Nice work
-
Yep John, sometimes just that little bit takes most of the effort :dremel:
Twin, sorry watsyaname?
Not my idea, I just adapted it from a commercial product I saw on tweb....I like to think I improved on it, well it worked anyways.
Stew,
No crack, in fact when it first moved I wasn't sure what was happening. Was the key moving or was the tooling bolts destroying themselves. At first I thought the latter, then realised the key was moving.
Gave me that nice warm feeling we get sometimes :D
Even so, it was still tough going, even when the key was fully out I had a job to get it off the crankshaft keyway as it was pretty stuck even in there.
Here's a picture of the underside of the key, as you can see it had rusted in two spots, but nothing you'd call heavy rusting.
The rest of the key is in remarkably good condition and judging by the paint it's original.
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0716.jpg)
Here's the top of the key, note the oil groove. This one was showing, just. But on the other side, the other flywheel, the key is in much deeper....umm, wonder what joys await us there...... :bang:
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Flywheel%20Key%20puller/IMG_0718.jpg)
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Glad it worked for you Darren. Jack off screws do work when properly tightened. :ddb:
I'm sure those hubs need to be quite tough. Can you imagine hitting a pot hole in the road at 60MPH. That hub has to take quite a shock.
Hope the second side comes out for you as easy. :thumbup:
Bernd
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Darren,
It isn't an oil groove, it is a compression slot, to allow controlled deformation of the key. As the key is driven in, and it tightens against the other components, instead of putting excess pressure on the flywheel casting and maybe causing it to crack, the key metal deforms into that groove. Like an all metal safety valve.
Remember when I said earlier in the post about drilling into the key to relieve pressure, that is what the groove is doing, but in a very controlled way.
The other side should come out in just the same way. It only takes a couple of thou more on the depth of the slot in the shaft or keyway in the flywheel, and because of the angle, it will require it to be further into the slots before it locks the parts together.
John
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Thanks for the clarification on the slot John. That make real sense, I can see how that would work.... :thumbup:
-
Thats fantastic!!!
I am really happy to see you got that guy out of there.
"SWMBO" as Rumpole and others would say... (I had to look it up.. and remembered watching that when younger) was asking me why the whoop in the kitchen.
I said Oh well Umm... ahh.... Well.
A friend got a really stuck part removed.. um.. yeah. :D
She gave me that look and said Oh cool good for him. :coffee:
It makes me crazy to have something like one of those nagging me, and not able to come out.
I work 3 days a week.. but I do nothing but work and sleep.. (And check the forum between times) and so cant pick away at things too easily.
Im really glad it worked out.
-
Good work that man :thumbup:
I have already commited that hub design to memory.... You never know when that will be useful?
I forgot there were two flywheels!! .... Hope the other side plays nice!?!
Compression slot.... Old style engineering at it's best :) (I'll get told off now..... They were probably using them when certain members were apprentices!!! :lol: .... Probably still do now!)
Looking forward to seeing the rest of this thread.... I want to see it all figured out, stripped down, cleaned up, re-built and running..... That's the plan right? :scratch: :)
Ralph.
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Don`t know if I`ve posted already, to say how much I`m enjoying this thread..... :thumbup:
But I am as relieved as you Darren, re the key removal. :clap:
Incidentally, you`ve just cost me the price of a centre finder....... Never seen one like that before! ::)
Thank you. Keep on keeping on..... :D
David.
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Thanks guys, it's great to have some feedback. Makes the postings all the more worthwhile...
David, those center finders I have used are not that accurate, you may need to remark it for lining up.
But it's ok for general work like I've been doing. For real accuracy one like Johns (Bogs) been showing off would be far better.
Ralph, all in good time I intend to do a full strip down....
Got some cast iron wheels today from the auction, bargain. Whether I use them is another matter :doh:
-
David, those center finders I have used are not that accurate, you may need to remark it for lining up.
But it's ok for general work like I've been doing. For real accuracy one like Johns (Bogs) been showing off would be far better.
Darren,
I thought that!
I still have my 30yr old, ex employment Starret wobbler, but this seems a nice little item for when total accuracy isn`t needed. ::)
David.
-
Ah yes, Sorry I forget who is who most of the time.....trying to teach Granny to suck eggs wasn't intended.... :med:
-
Ah yes, Sorry I forget who is who most of the time.....trying to teach Granny to suck eggs wasn't intended.... :med:
Nor was it thought, at the time....... :thumbup:
I will need all the tips and wrinkles I can get, when my mini mill arrives!
Producing products on a machining centre as big as a garden workshop, is poor training for our machining world!
David.
-
Back to the water Lister 6/1 coolant flanges tonight.
Some of you may remember that I was in need of a 1" BSP tap to clean the threads up. Well one came up on Ebay recently and I put a couple of quid on it and then forgot all about it. Well I "won" it. Strange term to describe these events as I hadn't won anything, I had to pay for it....
Anyways, I paid for it and it arrived this morning.
Nice clean and sharp, looks unused....this pic conveys the size of a 1" tap. As I said before, I wouldn't like to use it to make a new thread !!
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Lister%2061%20Genset%20Water%20Coolant%20Pipework%20and%20fitti/IMG_0706.jpg)
Whipped it through with a large wrench
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Lister%2061%20Genset%20Water%20Coolant%20Pipework%20and%20fitti/IMG_0707.jpg)
Really cleaned the thread up, look loads of muck off. It's not perfect, but it'll be fine
(http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp92/thebodger/lister/lister%20cs%206hp/Lister%2061%20Genset%20Water%20Coolant%20Pipework%20and%20fitti/IMG_0708.jpg)
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Hi Darren
Looking at the size of that beast I don't think it was that size I had, Pleased you got fixed up :clap:
Cheers
:wave:
Stew
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Darren,
You need to work a little faster there. We are up to 5 pages already and you only have that darn thing apart. :wack:
It should have been running by now. :lol:
Bernd
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Due to my illness I can't put much time into it Bernd, soz :coffee:
-
Bernd, I was ribbin ya mate...!!
Been waiting for the kickback but ya gone all silent on me... :scratch:
British dry humor, they say the yanks don't get it, or perhaps it don't travel well over the interweb.... :bang:
Or is it just me :(
-
:offtopic:
Darren,
I think you have hit it spot on.
It seems that American humour is mainly stand up and in your face, whereas ours is back door and sarcastic.
But as it is, we get on fairly well.
John
-
...
Or is it just me :(
Not you. Some of us get it sometimes. I work with 2 Brits and am slowly getting acclimated to their humor. One them is quite found of telling me that Yank humor isn't up to his standards!
Keep trying, we are a smart bunch here and we will figure it out!
Eric
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Bernd, I was ribbin ya mate...!!
Been waiting for the kickback but ya gone all silent on me... :scratch:
British dry humor, they say the yanks don't get it, or perhaps it don't travel well over the interweb.... :bang:
Or is it just me :(
Colour me stupid on that one Stew. Went right over my head. I figured you were really sick. Let's just say it didn't travel well over the interweb and I had my wires plugged in the wrong end. ::)
So let me ask you. Is it because you are takeing the Lister all apart and checking every part?
Ok now, this is were you laugh right? :)
Bernd
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British humor is fine!!
If its typed out its easier to get though.. only because... well I have had a slew of friends over the years from across the pond.. some who have never been to the states.. and I have to say.. some of the pronunciation doesnt jive. And then there are terms used in a casual way that I simply have no idea what they mean... so sometimes the jokes fall flat cause I dont understand the word. And am puzzling it out.. THEN I get it about 10 seconds later.
Kinda kills the joke.
For me at least.. unless you ahve one of those REALLY thick accents.. I dont really have any issues understanding. My wife has a good friend from Scotland.. Her accent is incredibly sexy.. but THICK. WOW. And put a few beers in her and her accent needs a cold saw to cut through! But I can understand her... my wife cant though. (Actually her husband cant either..but I did grow up on British tv shows re-aired over here on PBS stations in the late 60s, and 70s.)
-
My wife has a good friend from Scotland.. Her accent is incredibly sexy..
My wifes a Scot and I can speak from experience its the way they roll their R's
:lol:
OK I mean as in Purrrple.
When our son was first making his way in the world and starting to take interest in the oposit sex i advised him to stay clear of Scotish women as once thay got thier claws into you, you couldn,t get away, that earned me a . :wack:
But so much for fatherly advice:- he ended up marrying a scotish lass too
Stew
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Colour me stupid on that one
OK.... if you insist :lol:
So let me ask you. Is it because you are takeing the Lister all apart and checking every part?
Sort of, obviously I have time on my hands as well as playing with engines, lathes etc I'm also rebuilding my house (major work involved here) and I'm building a garage between the frost and raindrops.
But it's because of my illness I have this time, but you weren't to know that.
Ok now, this is were you laugh right? :)
Sort of, yeah .. :lol:
Unfortunately sarcasm/dry humor gets lost entirely if it has to be explained, so I doubt the above really helps :bang:
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:offtopic:
My wifes a Scot and I can speak from experience its the way they roll their R's
:lol:
Stew
Stew, my good lady is Welsh and they roll their R's as a matter of phonetics's, Is that the right word?
Mind you, she makes a lot of other strange noises as well but seems to fit in well with the locals. :lol:
Sarcasm is lost here too, it's sadly taken as a great insult and me being me really don't help much :bang:
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<makes a note to get earplugs before going to Scotland some day... SWMBO might not like me bringing someone home. Well then again.. erm NM>
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I too am enjoying daren's thread. I want one of these CS's also. But I don't have the time to make parts I would probably have to buy listeroid parts to get it going.
What the guys across the pond may not realise is that where Darren lives Welsh is the first language no English person understands a word of Welsh it is as different a language as Russian is to English.
There is something seductive about the female spken Scottish accent. I was sent to Aberdeen to work and
I fell in love at first sight more times in a week than in the rest of my life put together.
It is great that Darren is doing this thing properly if it was mine it would be held together with bungee straps and cranked over already.