MadModder
Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: Divided he ad on September 06, 2008, 05:25:28 AM
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Hi all, This is not one of the promised projects, it is for an aquaintance of mine.
It is to fit a much smaller lathe than mine a 7x12.
Now that would not seem to be much smaller than the 9x20 that my ball turner(BT) fits on but, the design is smaller to fit the smaller machine.
I have had to do a little re-designing of the plan for my version of a BT and have had to do it all without seeing the machine the tool is destined for!
I have had some photo's and a few measurements (more to come!) so I started the build tonight.... as well as move a ton of stuff around in my shop due to flooding (minor) Well rain water is pouring down the walls..... another project ::) (well it is quite urgently in need of a new roof.... it is being ordered next week!)
The trued blanks.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02132.jpg)
For size fef...
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02135.jpg)
The two mating parts.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02136.jpg)
The parts assembled.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02137.jpg)
There are some chatter marks but the will affect nothing, the load bearing faces have been lightly lapped together and there is no play to be felt. (personal opinion, you can feel far more than you can see.)
I'll keep this post up to date when I make some more :)
Ralph.
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Yes yes please do. I want to build a ball turner for my mini lathe as well. I have the 7x10 but in reality it is 7x8. It is really f'ng small... surprised I can make the kickstands on it, I am. It has the same cross slide as the 7x12.
Eric
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It got me thinking about the possibility of one for the Sherline lathe. Not much room from the saddle to center, but think it would be doable. First though I have to build one for my 9" X 19" Grizzly.
Bernd
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Are you sure you could fit them into your work load Bernd?!? :D
I have not thought about one for a machine that small! But I'm sure it can be done :)
It is fun to re-design things to fit your requirements ;D
I should get some time in the workshop tomorrow..... got some machine maintenance first, then some more on this BT.
Ralph.
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Are you sure you could fit them into your work load Bernd?!? :D
Ralph.
Well, let me see if I............ naw that won't work. Maybay if I put off what the wife wants.....naw not a good idea. :-\ :P
I'm sure I'll forget about all this in a day or two and I'll be back to my normal self again. ;D
Ofcourse after I wrote about one for the Sherline lathe I thought why. I can turn small stuff on the Grizzly just as well with one of those. So I guess my work load just decressed by one. :D
Bernd
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I can turn small stuff on the Grizzly just as well with one of those. So I guess my work load just decressed by one.
Too true, as Bog's keeps telling me you can't turn big stuff on a little lathe but you sure can make tiny stuff on a huge lathe!!
I feel you are dragging you heals a little Bernd :D You said you were going to make one of these quite some time ago.... And they are pretty easy for men of your caliber.
I made mine as the first tool on my lathe and my mill and it worked first time and has ever since ;D (and I didn't have much of a clue at that time.... Still haven't I know!!! ;D )
I have all the details of tips etc you could need, just ask...... Tell you what,
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/DSC01299.jpg)
There no excuses now!!!! ;)
Ralph.
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I want more details on the design you are making for the mini lathe. I want to make one... found some plans for modifying the one you built for my lathe but can't find them now.
Eric
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I can turn small stuff on the Grizzly just as well with one of those. So I guess my work load just decressed by one.
I feel you are dragging you heals a little Bernd :D You said you were going to make one of these quite some time ago.... And they are pretty easy for men of your caliber.
Ralph.
Ya, I know I said that. I'm just very slow Ralph. :P Just ask the wife. :o ;D
Bernd
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As soon as I get the rest of the measurements I will sort out a crap o cad drawing set and send them over Eric... I will also be posting more of the build on this one when I get my A*# into gear!!!
Like Bernd should be ;) ;D
Tis late now gents so I'm going to sleep!.... Well just read the other posts first.... This could be detrimental to my work day tomorrow!
Ralph.
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Hey Ralph, this look familar? :o
(http://www.kingstonemodeleng.com/HMEMPics/ball1.jpg)
You shamed me into it. ;D
Bernd
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HaHa!! You not going to blame me for your workload ;D
You will never regret it Bernd :)
I have been a little busy this evening, I had a friend round, slowed me down a little talking and explaining stuff but it was fun all the same.
Here are a few up to date photo's of the progress on the miniBT.
Cutting the slot
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02148.jpg)
The shaped blank
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02151.jpg)
The securing screw holes
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02154.jpg)
The handle hole
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02155.jpg)
That is all I have tonight... more soon.
Keep us upto date Bernd post it here if you like. ;D
Ralph.
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You'll probably get yours done before me. ;D But I'm going to keep plugging away at it.
Going to work on the rotating body today. I'm making the whole thing out of aluminum. :o
Want to see how that works. Gauling could be a problem of the rotating surfaces. I have some material to use if that happens. It's called "turkite". Don't know if the spelling is right on that. It was used at the place I used to work at. It was used on the ways of machines. It's a soft material but can with stand heavy loads when oil is added to the sliding surfaces. I'll take a pic later and post it with the next part of the ball turner I make.
Bernd
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Bernd, A total alu' construction should work well (certainly be lighter than mine!! ) I suppose you could use a ball or taper bearing if you wanted to be fancy?
There are some others on Steve Bedairs site that use all sorts of various ideas.
Plodding on is all we can do, I will be slow now for a little while, well I can get a few bits done.... But I am waiting on the exact measurements of the lathe sadle it is destined for from the new owner!!
We will see how it all comes out ;D
Ralph.
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Ralph,
A bit more progress on my ball turner. Folks, it's not a mini, but it fits right in with Ralph's build.
I've got the body done. Took a piece of 3" dia. bar and turned it to 2.500". Milled the slot for the tool holder.
Test fitting of the holder and scribing the top of the tool holder.
(http://www.kingstonemodeleng.com/HMEMPics/ball2.jpg)
The temp screws are in place here and the extra material is marked for triming.
(http://www.kingstonemodeleng.com/HMEMPics/ball3.jpg)
So a few more days..... ah weeks? ::) I'll have it done. ;D
Bernd
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Bernd.... Hopefully you have not cut the tool holder yet? .... You see there could be a little issue!
I figured out that if you scribe the line from your tailstock it can be minutely out with the chuck centre!
I use a very sharply turned taper in the chuck to do the scribing, therefore making sure it is in the correct position.
Obviously many peoples tailstocks are spot on.... But a few might not be!!
Hope I haven't ruined your day?
Looks good though ;D Glad you are adding it to the thread too :)
Ralph.
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Naw, not to late. Haven't cut it out yet. Have been busy helping out parents with a well pump problem the last couple of days. Got it all working again to day (9/16/08 8:00PM). So maybe in the next day or so.
I do believe my, or should I say the lathes, tailstock is off a tad. :o ::) ;D
Good tip though. I'm going to try a center in the spindle and see if it's off any. Nope haven't ruined my day. I don't get upset over things like that. Besides it's easy to amke another tool post and use this part for something else. 8)
Wasn't sure if you'd mind me adding to this thread since it's your project. Felt a bit like I was interfereing. :-[ I'll keep add ing though since you don't mind. ;)
Bernd
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As I said, I figured this one out..... After I made the mistake with my first one for my 9x20 ::)
Glad you haven't got to re-make anything ;D
I only use it in the chuck due to that being the thing that will hold the work. maybe the spindle centre could differ too?
Maybe it could be a worthy excerise to check all three against each other and see if there is any difference?
I'll leave it up to you ;D I should hopefully get something posted by the end of the week... but no promises! :-\
Ralph.
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Damn it... just wrote all this evenings post out and a bodge deleted it..... >:( :'(
Well here we go again!!!
This evening was spent re-designing and modifying the BT base. I am making this off of pictures and supplied measurements. So when I found I had missed a dowel height when I drew up my plan I was not totally shocked!
This is how I sorted it out.... First, find a suitable bit of plate....Brass it is then!
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02165.jpg)
Then make it the shape you need it... round in this case. It was mounted on an arbour after having the corners cut off, then turned until slightly over required size.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02166.jpg)
the plate was then de-burred and lightly flatted as was the original base. Flux was applied thinly to the steel base and a soft solder spiral was sandwiched between the two parts. They were mounted on an arbour That I already had and secured in the bench vise.
The blow torch was used in an upward direction and aimed at the centre under the brass disc. once the heat has caused the solder to melt (easily visible when the plates get closer together) the nut is tightened to force out the excess solder and create a good joint.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02168.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02169.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02170.jpg)
The now tightened and extreamly hot base is left to cool naturally. DO NOT quench the base, the water will force the solder out as it super heats and create a poor joint... It could then seperate in the lathe when finishing is being carried out.
Whilst it was cooling I made the tip holder blank, once it had cooled I turned it to size.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02172.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02174.jpg)
Next I recessed the new base plate for the pivot screw then drilled and tapped the centre of the turret.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02176.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02175.jpg)
So end of play today has this sat on my bench ;D
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02177.jpg)
Oh and I got the new tips too....so very tiny compared with the ones for my BT....
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02162.jpg)
Now at 2am I tink I'd better get some sleep!!! Sorry about the length of the post... So much to say and show!! ;D
Ralph.
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Nice post Ralp. That brass and steel sure look nice together. ;D (Eric has to add a few more smiles and the bow)
I see from all those pics that you like to use carbide alot. Interesting.
Well no progress today on my ball turner. :(
2:00AM :o It's only 9:40 as I reply to this, But then your 5 hours ahead of me on the east coast of "over-the-pond". :D
Night Ralph. Sleep tight and don't let the Lathe Fairies bit. :D :D :D :D
Bernd
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Nice post Ralp. That brass and steel sure look nice together. ;D (Eric has to add a few more smiles and the bow)
...
You mean this one? :bow:
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Ralp!!!? You impersonating Scooby Doo Bernd??
Steel and brass in this occasion it from nessesity.... But you remember my finger engine flywheel? Same stuff ;)
Yep the carbide does just about everything I make.... Just the way I started out and have stuck with it.... Will one day try to make some hss tooling but this does me for now ;D
Glad you like it so far :thumbup: .... Had to use one of the new ones ;D
Ralph.
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All right Eric. :clap: :thumbup: :beer: I love it.
Thank you so much. :bow: :bow: :bow: :thumbup:
Bernd
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Ya I remember that from the finger engine. I think it looks nice to use some contrasting colors in your work. I wonder how stainless and brass would look together all shined up? Been thinking of doing something like that for a flywheel.
I'm going to check the heigth from the headstock after checking my favorite 2 forums. I''l let you know how it turns out.
And I see Eric provided a few more. :clap: I love 'em. :thumbup:
Bernd
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As I logged on I see you were here to, Ralph. Looks like about 12:30AM your time.
I checked the heigth at the head stock. No difference as compared to the tailstock. So everything was OK. But, I forgot to mill the bottom. I was cheking on a rough bottom. :o
I almost got the body cut out tonight and milled but had a very dull blade in the bandsaw. :bugeye: So I set the part aside and had dinner. ;D Tomorrow is another day.
Bernd
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There's nothing worse than checking on a rough bottom Bernd!!
Is it not at all salvageable?
Maybe it will be usefull elsewhere? or if it rotates through 90 degrees would it work then?
You have a power saw!!! WOW! I have a hacksaw and a worn out arm!!
One day I too will own a powered saw of some type?!
intill then it will take me much hard work and out of breathness to cut my 3" steel bar stock :(
Ralph.
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Actually Ralph I own 3 saws. Two grizzly bandsaws and a powered hacksaw. If shipping and taxes weren't so much I'd be willing to ship you the hacksaw since I don't need it any more. ;D
The part was salvageable by the way. I just milled the bottom and rescribed the lines. Now all I need to do is cut it out, finish mill and add the cutter and I will have a ball turner.
Thanks to your persisten nagging to get it done. :clap: :clap:
Also watch HMEM for my next engine build. I'm going to show how to use a sacrificial aluimnum milling table. It'll be a while yet though.
Bernd
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Ok then.... On with the show!!
Just to make it clear... I am not (against popular belief) perfect.... :-\
The pictures already posted show the turret made to 40mm dia. this has become an issue when the drillings for the fixing points were made. They cut into the edge of the recesses and made small but noticeable swarf traps... This will not do.
So last night I started re-making the turret, larger50mm dia and re-machined the base slightly to allow the bolt holes to be within the recess for the turret.
A few pics to get me up to date.
new part cut (by hand!!)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02219.jpg)
the part faced and then the outer edge cleaned off using super glue gel to hold it to the chuck.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02222.jpg)
The part removed, the chuck and part clean up easily.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02223.jpg)
The part sized and ready for a little lapping. I put some blue into the grinding paste so it would photo' easily :)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02224.jpg)
To lap it I used a fixed centre against the brass base and applied pressure via the tailstock whilst the machine was running, you know when the lapping is being done as the bit you are pushing stops spinning with the one in the lathe, This may not be the best way to do this but it worked... And just a little cleaning up on the base where the centre was pushing it. (this might not work if the base were steel?)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02225.jpg)
So as of last night I have this to show for my efforts...
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02227.jpg)
Hopefully i will get some meaningful work done on this very soon. It has to be finished.
How's yours going Bernd?
Ralph.
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Well I put some time into this tonight.... Got the new turret mostly finished.
It was all about the setup.... the machining took min's!
Tool post slot.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02261.jpg)
Relief for grubscrew holes.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02262.jpg)
Handle hole
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02263.jpg)
Grubscrew holes
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02264.jpg)
Where we're up to....
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02265.jpg)
A piece of square machined 1/2 " ali plate has been sent off to the new owner so that it can be marked using a sharp point turned in the 3 jaw ... Slide the plate across the point whilst holding it firmly to the saddle and it should give me an easily transferable (via height gauge and surface table) scribed line.... Just waiting on it's return now!!
Ralph.
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Thats looking very good! I gotta start mine one of these days. Maybe tonight... :beer:
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Looking good there Ralph. :thumbup:
You've got the second one almost done and I haven't even finished my first. :P
Bernd
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Well gent's I came to the theory - a job that needs to be done that didn't work well and has become delayed will stop your progress on other things and bring you down....
So I came up with a solution, do a little on something that will make you very happy, then when you do a bit on the awkward job you are in good spirits and you get it done quicker and you are still happy at the end of it! :thumbup:
Works for me anyway.... I'm still happy now ;D ;)
More on this next week too.
Ralph.
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You're absolutley right about that Raplh. :beer:
So that's what I did. I worked on something else. Then I went back to finish this.
(http://www.kingstonemodeleng.com//HMEMPics/ball5.jpg) :bugeye:
Can you guess what it is? ;D (sorry for the blury pic)
NO! Ok here's what it is. ;D
(http://www.kingstonemodeleng.com//HMEMPics/ball6.jpg)
And to show that I did it:
(http://www.kingstonemodeleng.com//HMEMPics/ball4.jpg)
Not quite a ball, but darn close for the first time. :bugeye: YES?
I call this the MK I. It was just to try out the idea of a tool such as this. I see lot's of projects now with balls on them. (eh hem ::) No pun intended)
Now back to Ralph's mini turner.
Bernd
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Sweet tool Bernd....!! Worth the effort?
If you would like to view the post I did on set up of the tool it is on the HMEM board, last few pages of the 'Nose cone - ball turner' post about half way down the last page in fact.
http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/index.php?topic=1721.45 (hope it's ok that I link to this?)
You will get a very good, very close ball from this method.
Looks like your not too far off now anyway... Nice first attempt... My first one looked like a rugby ball!!! (a football to you guys) ;D
That lathe looks remarkably familliar!!!? I think a saddle lock is a future project though.... The allen key did my nut in!! (drove me crazy)
I look forward to seeing your..... Erm no! I am looking forward to your future projects with knobs on ;D
Ralph. :thumbup:
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Thanks for the nice comments Ralp. :beer:
Went back and "reread" your steps. It's almost to a "T" what I did without the marks. I sort of eye balled it. That's why it came out close.
The lathes are of the same design. Mine's a Grizzly.
I think I'm going to make a ball turner for the Sherline so I can make smaller knobs. :D
Thanks again for the push. I probably would have never made one, but after seeing one of your video's I had to have one. :beer:
Bernd
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Bernd
You have shamed me into starting mine for my mini lathe! That came out very nice! I am duly impressed.
Very nice. I will start mine this weekend. I have to finish up some Halloween props for neighbor (will be doing either a gallery or log on them) first.
Eric
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Ya, thanks. I think you should blame Ralph. After all he's the one that started it all. :bugeye: :clap:
You'll realy like that ball turner once you get it done. I didn't think something like that could be so much fun. It's fun to whatch as the ball materializes from a piece of long round stock into a ball.
Bernd
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I knew you would get the bug Bernd :thumbup:
I would be honoured to take full responsibility... But I would then have to blame Steve Bedair!!!! ;D
Eric,
I'll sent you my rough sketches if you like, They might help you with yours since a few errors have now been ironed out on my version.
I'll get some time on it soon... Honest.
Ralph.
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Ok, when last I left this post I had just mostly finished the new turret. Well I got a little done today on the tool post.
The ali plate I sent off returned yesterday and I started getting all the heights etc set and correct.
I know some of the times are incorrect for the order of the acts described, but my phone once again decided it did not need to record all the photo's I took... So I had to use some later images to show the pictorial that goes with the write up!!!
I used the vernier height gauge to get the exact heights of the scribed line on the block, and then used it to get the exact heights of the surfaces of the main tool body.(gauge not in contact at time of photo!)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02382.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02383.jpg)
Then, I milled the tool post to the correct width for the turret. Then used the grubscrews to mark the tool post so that a relief groove could be added in the correct line to stop the burrs caused by the grubscrews from fowling the sides and making the tool hard to adjust.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02384.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02386.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02385.jpg)
I marked the tool post exact height and then mounted it in the main body and checked it against the height recieved on the ali plate... Thankfully all calculations worked and it was exactly as it should be.... I like exactly at this stage :thumbup:
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02388.jpg)
Finally for this evening. I milled the toolpost to height and found it's centre, then centre drilled it. I am waiting upon some fixings and tap's now before I drill any further.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02389.jpg)
Well that's it for this part of the post.... Hopefully this time next week We might have a winner!!?? (depends a lot on the Royal mail!!)
Ralph.
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This post.... The scary task of mounting the tip :bugeye: I took my time and still made a dumb ass mistake... Not detremental though.... Phew!!!!!
Well the pic's tell all so here they come.......
First the tool post was drilled and tapped for a M2.5x0.45 tread.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02410.jpg)
Then the new tip is inverted (due to it tapering upward when the right way up) and scribed around.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02411.jpg)
Ending up with this.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02412.jpg)
The tip depth is measured (2.53mm) and the centre hole is bored using a 6mm slot drill.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02414.jpg)
Then the hard part..... I have no CNC and there fore the milling out of the angles is all done by hand! .... Enter my error #1.... Yes I turned the damn X axis wheel the wrong way :o It is noticable but is not going to interfere with any operation the tool will perform. So it stays!
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02415.jpg)
Then when all that is done, in goes the tip.. Note the slight error in the lower right angle of the cutout in the tool post..... Dumb mistake!
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02416.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02418.jpg)
Then it is held firmly in position using a screw and the height of the tip is checked.
All Good the 56.15mm height that was desired is clearly there :thumbup:
First convex cutting side
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02419.jpg)
Then concave side
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02420.jpg)
Glad all that was done!!!!
Now then there was some other stuff achieved .... The bolts for holding the tool to the cross slide were turned to size held in an arbour. Also reduced the head height.
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02422.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02423.jpg)
Then I made two little holes through the turret to allow the tool to be attatched to the machine (since it comes in two using a screw from the base, this is the only way to fix it down.)
And they had to have swarf covers to stiop nasties falling into the rotating area of the tool....
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02425.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02426.jpg)
Obviously some finishing required!..... I'm thinking this will be done by next week ;D
Ralph.
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Not bad for "manual" CNC slot cutting. :thumbup: :clap:
Bernd
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Thanks Bernd.... I tried and nearly got a clean job out of it!!
Why do you always turn the wheel the wrong direction right near the end?!??!
Well it appears that I may have a rival build on the go too.....!!
We shall see if I get put to shame on the time taken ehh!!?? :thumbup: To arms!!! :dremel:
Ralph.
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Thanks Bernd.... I tried and nearly got a clean job out of it!!
Why do you always turn the wheel the wrong direction right near the end?!??!
I think that guy Murphy has something to do with. :bugeye:
Well it appears that I may have a rival build on the go too.....!!
We shall see if I get put to shame on the time taken ehh!!?? :thumbup: To arms!!! :dremel:
Ralph.
Ya, I see that. I think your safe on that count though. :clap:
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I think that guy Murphy has something to do with.
Your not wrong there Bernd, Talk about sneaking up on you at the last moment!!
Well as I said it is still a very secure fit.... Should be a very usable solid little device.
Ya, I see that. I think your safe on that count though.
I Don't know.... I think Eric might be posting pictures taken last month so that he can suddenly produce a working tool in a matter of days!!! ;D :bugeye: ;) Or maybe that's just my head running away with itself again???! It does that!! :-\ :thumbup:
I think it should be good to see the design differences etc.
Ralph.
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I think it should be good to see the design differences etc.
Ralph.
I see the differences now. Eric's machine is a 7" X 12" lathe (I think) and mine is a 9" X 19". I have T slots on the cross slide and Eric dosen't on his. So bascially the mounting plate is different. The top end should be simular.
Bernd
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This is a very cool tool!!!! One of the things that I'd like to be able to do is turn nose cones for rockets. Ogives (both Secant and Tangent Ogives) are very popular designs. Since ogive shapes are basically sections of a circle, it seems to me that this device can be used to turn Ogive type shapes - using the tool in an offset fashion such that the tool is not centered on the X axis (for Tangent Ogives), and not centered on either X or Y axis for the Secant Ogives. It would also mean the tool would have to be designed for a much larger radius (i.e. a 'standoff' distance) but we would use only a section of the circumference (depending on how oblique the ogive is to be). Have you given any thought to this geometry and the attendant tool mounting issues?
Thanks!!
Paul
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Hey Paul,
Welcome to the group!
Ralph will have to answer more on your question, but from what I have seen it is very possible. I have seen people make propeller nose cones with these things.
Eric
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Hi Paul,
I've made a little ogive in the past.... Still have no use for it!! But I was kinda challenged so I made it!
I don't know what the largest obtainable ogive would be (never tried) but I know the principle of turning one with one of these tools.... Look here :
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=282.0
Hopefully you will find something of use in there.
I can talk you through the set up I used easily enough. Not too sure about all your other questions... Never thought of trying to be honest!
What do you make or have you made Paul? Do you have any pictures to show the forum?
Ralph.
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Thanks, Eric and Ralph...
I am a total nube to machining ... I'm just doing research right now, preparatory to getting gear - just what I need - yet another hobby - but I have been interested in this for years. I started buying accessories for lathe and mill - so that is a guarantee that I will be getting the machines soon enuf. I have my eyes on a Sieg C4 right now. And for a milling machine, probably a Super X3. The big constraint right now is space to dedicate to new tools, so I'm pretty much limited to benchtop gear. My initial tie-in to other hobbies is rocketry, hence my interest in turning the ogive nose cones. I'm also interesting in turning some nozzles - not really functional nozzles, but the kind that are used for motor retention and 'effect'.... My elderly uncle has a shop out behind his house with some old, old, gear in it, so I'll have something to share with him - he enjoys making brass steam engines. His shop is set up with old belt-driven machinery - common power drive for several tools, like the old machine shops. I'll keep you posted on my progress on getting going - it will probably be a couple of months before I'm really underway. Some really cool ideas in this forum - like getting metal from the scrap yards. Piston crowns!!! no kidding!!!
Professionally, I am a software designer/developer, so I can easily see this heading towards CNC, if the hook really gets set in me.... ;-)
Thanks again for the welcome...
Paul
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Ok..... So I finally got my rear into gear and finished this little puppy..... Yes that was 'finished'!! :thumbup:
I'll let the pic's do most of the talking ;D
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02469.jpg)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02475.jpg)
Sorry about the slight blur!!!
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02472.jpg)
The reason for the not as pleasing look of two holes and covers in the places they are... Well I didn't want swarf falling down into the rotating area as it probably would if the holes were under the tool post (one would often get exposed when cutting a larger convex or mid size concave patterns.) of course that could be remidied in a few different ways.... This was mine.
Just to note what tonight entailed....
I finished the tool post to the level of the turret.
Took a file and removed most of the tool marks, and used emery wrapped around the file for a fine finish.
I then marked the tool tip edge onto the tool post (scribed line visible just in front of the tip in the downward shot) I used a square to find the piont directly inline with the tip and then used the square to scribe a line across the tool post.
The turret was next for marking. The centre was found and marked and then using the square against the grubscrew relief shelf I scribed a line on both sides of centre.
The lines on the tool post and turret are used for the set up of the radius of the ball that is to be turned.
Measure the dia' of the bar being used as a blank, halve it and make the distance between the lines that result. The tool is then set for the radius it is to turn.... Giving a ball of the dia' double that of the tool setting.
Then I thought I'd make it shine a little 8)
Now just to contact the new owner for the address etc and the job is all over!!!
Oh, And obviously I'm going to throw in a tapped slug of brass bar.... Everyone has to make the first ball to be the handle :thumbup:
Next.... I can get some serious me/fun time in .... Wind ball here I come!!! :dremel:
Ralph.
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Nice job Ralph!
Polished even :clap:
Eric
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Nice job there Ralph, thanks for sharing with us all, great inspiration.... ;D
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Thank's fella's.
I couldn't resist the polishing part.... What with the new arbour and all ;D
Ralph.
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Realy looks nice Ralph. :thumbup: I had to find my sunglasses before I could look at those pics. 8)
A wind ball? Do I dare ask? :P
Bernd
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Bernd
Ralph's windball is actually an Aeolipile seen HERE (http://modelengines.info/aeolipile/)
Eric
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Oh, why didn't he say so. :wack: ;D
Darn language barrier. :P :D
Bernd
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I'm not going for quite that accurate of a copy.... Think spinning ball.... probably not including the kettle just yet!!
It's also known as 'Hero's engine' and 'Heron's engine'
After the inventor Hero (Heron) of Alexandria Try wiki.... for a few details :coffee: (Edit.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_of_Alexandria )
Gotta love these.... :mmr:
This looks like my brother!! :zap: Last time he was wiring something he plugged the flex in to help judge the length and then cut it to length resulting in :zap: and neck ache!!!!
He said he 'ALWAYS' gets a neck ache after a shock.... 'ALWAYS'!!!! I said how often does this happen.... 'Oh every now and again' he says.... My brother.... Genius he is not!
Anyway back to the post.... Try Karsten in youlube.... It might give a bit of a better idea as to my mad plan :smart: :thumbup:
Ralph.
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I couldn't resist the polishing part....
Bling and even .............. Bling3 :) ............ where's mi' sunglasses, blimey Ralph you've outdone yourself this time :bow:
CC
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Ralph :clap:
I just checked out youtube and if I got the right video that is a fine project that you are starting. I will be following along for the build.
That was a fine job you did on the ball turner, just wish that I had my sunglasses on when I first looked at it. :beer:
cheers
Don
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Hey CC... It was just a quick spruce up job.... Wait till I get going on some brass and alu' !!! ;D 8)
I find polishing steels very hard work still... I need to get my finish better with the emery first, makes the polishing much easier/quicker.
It'll be a little while before I polish any more parts. I have a few tools to build first to aid in the ball making process... That should be fun... Me a tool maker! :-\ Well everyone loves a tryer ehh?!
Don, Thank you.... Sorry about your eyes 8)
Glad the name worked... I didn't even check my spelling! :D
Just to aid finding it, since I just tried the search and it took a page of two to find this...... http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=ozcZ65bqUF0
Mine is not going to be an exact copy of this... I havn't got the skill, time or CNC to produce such a framework. But I'm sure you'll agree that a ball is most certainly required!?
Well watch out for the updates in the Aeolipile post I have running, and we will see how my plan works!.... Did I say plan?! There is nothing on paper except for Boggies Crap o Cad (R) renderings.... Well that's all I need at the mo' :thumbup:
Maybe I'll scratch out some thing?.... Then totally change it as the music leads me (Enter smiley conductor here! ;D )
Ralph.
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Ralph,
That looks like a much easier design, with the nozzles coming from a steam dome. A few advantages there.
More fluid for longer runs.
Much easier punch and die design.
A single ball race.
John
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Ok.... This thread is rapidly becoming the wrong one!! So I'll ask that any Aeolipile comments be placed here..... http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=389.0
Just to keep the forum in order! I'm going to copy the bit I wrote and paste it there to allow continuity and flow :med: ;D
Thank you.
Ralph. (John, your answer will be there too :) )
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So help me out Ralph...
I hope to get to the tool post Weds. I need all the info you can share about setting it up for the insertable bit, height and such.
Eric
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Ok, erm.... What do you want to know? I have all sorts of odd ideas that might help :dremel:
I have work now so will be able to answer any replies later.... bout 9-10 hrs!!! :whip:
If you think of anything specifically just write it and I'll do my best :thumbup:
Ralph.
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Just one little bit to add here.... The final adjustment.
Due to a small DRO mounted on the cross slide (I noticed this during the last check before it is sent to the new owner) being 17mm high a bend is required in the handle. So....
Place 2 bars on one side and one on the other, the bar to be bent is positioned between them in the vice and turn until the bar is bent! (this took an extention on the vice handle... It will bend a small dia' vice handle so care is needed)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02580.jpg)
Sounds easy right?.... Well the trick is in getting the bars to stay still whilst you get the one to be bent into the correct position..... I cheated... used bluetack!! :thumbup:
The end result....
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DSC02581.jpg)
I also made a blank for the knob of the handle... Nothing special just a piece of brass 16mm dia' bar 18mm long. Threaded for the thread on the handle. All that he needs to do is make a little arbour and turn his first ball.... :D
Shouldn't be too hard?!?!
Well that's it until I get some pic's of what it can do (maybe a video?) I'll post them at that time.
Ralph.
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Nice one Ralph. :thumbup:
For a minute I thought you'd grown a third arm. :D
Bernd
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Ralph, I'm always amazed at the quality of work you turn out,
Nice to see it finished, well almost, just need to see it do what it does.... :clap:
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Bernd,
Thank you. I wondered what you meant at first! .... The blue tack trick I figured :thumbup: Every little helps!
That took a great deal of torque on the extended vice handle... The bar being bent is 8mm stainless!
I used the extension on only 30mm of the 160mm handle sticking out from the main screw to prevent bending the handle, seems to have worked well :)
Darren,
Thank you too, Amazed!?! Well now, I have something to live up to!! You don't do too badly yourself :thumbup:
We will all have to wait on the performance pic's. It is being mailed tomorrow so shouldn't be too long to wait :)
Ralph.
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Well folks it looks like I can keep my head up :D
A few pic's sent from the new owner of the ball turner....
First the blank I sent in a titanium arbour.... Yes that's correct! Titanium!! (he had no mild steel!!!)
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DCP_2626.jpg)
Then the cut ball some moments later...
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DCP_2627.jpg)
And finally a shot of it completed in it's new home :thumbup:
(http://i289.photobucket.com/albums/ll221/dividedhead/MY%20BALL%20TURNER%20-%20STEVE%20BEDAIR%20PLAN/Karl%20ball%20turner/DCP_2628.jpg)
(No video's... But he may make one in the future? You never know?)
These pic's came with a wonderfully happy e-mither.... I'm so very glad it all worked.... Not everyday you make something from photo's and a few rough measurements!!
Very happy Ralph! :)
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Well, well now. Something to be proud of. :headbang:
Nice going Ralph.
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Thank you Bernd.... Yes I am quite proud :)
I have helped another hobbyist in his works.... I hope it serves him well :dremel:
Ralph.
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Ralph,
Nice work, as usual. Very impressive.
Next time you are over, I have a few ideas on how to improve this little ball turner, to make it a lot more versatile.
But I need to pick your brains first just to see if the ideas will work.
Just wait until I get myself together, and we'll see if we can get that bling crown of yours teetering a little bit, and see if we can attract a few more members to get involved as well.
John
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Nice one Ralph ........... as ever .......... :bow:
CC
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Thank you John, means a lot that you want to pick my brain too.... Who'd have thought!!?? Your welcome to the crown, I nicked it off you anyway :thumbup:
CC, :) Thank you....
I'm just so happy about it I feel like I could bore all of you repeating it!!!! I'm just so happy, I'm just so happy, I'm just so happy, I'm just so happy, I'm just so happy.... Shall I go on??? Perhaps not! :D
Ralph.
Edit:
for those who have come to this post later on.... There's a website showing the plans to the larger 9x20 version of the ball turner, a downloadable file and links to the designers website (Steve Bedair)
http://www.projectsinmetal.com plus loads of other project plans too :thumbup:
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You've every right to be happy Ralph, was a good job done there mate :thumbup:
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Thank you John, means a lot that you want to pick my brain too.... Who'd have thought!!?? Your welcome to the crown, I nicked it off you anyway :thumbup:
CC, :) Thank you....
I'm just so happy about it I feel like I could bore all of you repeating it!!!! I'm just so happy, I'm just so happy, I'm just so happy, I'm just so happy, I'm just so happy.... Shall I go on??? Perhaps not! :D
Ralph.
Ralph, you are an artisan my friend :dremel:
Eric
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By any chance, do you have the plans for the small ball turner?
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No sorry.... I never really made any plans.
It's all made to measure for the individual lathe and drawn up very roughly as I went along :dremel:
The pictures are the only thing that show how it was made and put together :)
Ralph.