MadModder
Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: AndyB on November 07, 2010, 11:30:15 AM
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So I have finally made a start.
The castings arrived from Myers in the US.
Seems like good quality stuff!
Got the book too; 'Steam and Sterling, Engines You Can Build' edited by William C Fitt.
Ha! The builder in the book obviously has bigger machines than mine. :lol:
Followed his set up for machining the base...oops! :scratch:
Hmmm, spent a good few hours trying all different ways to get over the machining.
Could not mount it on the vertical slide for flycutting :bang: :bang:
Eventually, I ended up following his example, but spent ages trying to make sure it all turned. :scratch:
Had to file the corner of the flywheel bracket so that it did not catch the ways, that was to make sure that the other end cleared the bed. :clap:
I had 30thou clearance! If you look carefully you can just see light between the casting and the end of the ways! :clap: :ddb:
Not good at taking pictures, so I didn't bother showing the finished base. Gone to filing the legs because time is getting short tonight.
Got to bore it next. That will take some figuring out...as will figuring out how to put pictures in line with the text :scratch: :lol:
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Wow... that's some clearance :)
Good job on the setup. Keep the build log going :)
Eric
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Hi Andy :thumbup:
Good to see you have made a start :clap: :clap: ,,,,is a good size engine in it :D
Rob
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That's loads of clearance. I've done stuff with much less than that - and got the tool marks to prove it! :lol:
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Thank you chaps :thumbup:
Sorry, this log will take a while as I don't get much workshop time, usually just a few hours at the weekends.
Have also got to make some tools to make the parts.
I didn't dare show the topslide and tool angles that I had to use to reach the ends of the base as well as the centre in case I got shouted at by the professionals :lol:
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Got to bore it next. That will take some figuring out...as will figuring out how to put pictures in line with the text :scratch: :lol:
Andy,
Your going to ned a place to store the photo's such as "photobucket", You'll need an account. I use my own web site to host the pictures. Also the pictures should be sized to about 600 X 800 pixels. These are then enbeded into the text with the "img" comand located in the upper left of the reply area.
Also check the forum. I believe Ralph did a tutorial or write up on how to do all that. Can't remember exactly where that is located right now.
Bernd
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Got to bore it next. That will take some figuring out...as will figuring out how to put pictures in line with the text :scratch: :lol:
Andy,
Your going to ned a place to store the photo's such as "photobucket", You'll need an account. I use my own web site to host the pictures. Also the pictures should be sized to about 600 X 800 pixels. These are then enbeded into the text with the "img" comand located in the upper left of the reply area.
Also check the forum. I believe Ralph did a tutorial or write up on how to do all that. Can't remember exactly where that is located right now.
Bernd
Here ya go... Thread on posting pictures is HERE (http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=607.0)
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Hi Andy.
I love those engines! All those moving levers etc They look alive when running....... :D
Good luck with your clearances. Looking forward to further progress. :thumbup:
David D
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Great stuff!
Thank you very much. :nrocks:
It looks as if I will clamp the base to the vertical slide with straps then bore with an indexable boring head mounted in the headstock. Will have to back it with a plank of wood so that I don't bore through the vertical slide! :ddb:
Off to the Federation of Harley Davidson Clubs of Europe President's Meeting this weekend so the next installment will be late I'm afraid.
Andy
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Lo AndyB,
I once had a bit less clearance than you had, the workpiece was about 2 mm too long for the gap. :bang:
I took an angle grinder, and ground 2 mm off the bedways of my Myford S7... :loco:
Didnīt feel too good about it, but wtf... Worse things happen all the time... I havenīt noticed any deleterious effects about that open throat surgery anyhow.
:wave:
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Hi Andy, I've got to say it's good to see someone working on something that's right on the limit of their machine, and having a lathe alone to do the machine work. I learned more about ways around apparently insurmountable obstacles when I was working with no mill, and just a "t" slot cross slide, also machined on my lathe, than all the easy work when I later had first a mill/drill, and now a full size mill.
As Cidron says, in stating he ground two millimeters off the bed of his lathe, if you can't make it fit the work you do, it must not be yours. It's better to deliberately grind off clearance, than to accidentally break out clearance, and maybe break the work piece as well. I'm looking forward to seeing your engine run, I always wanted to build one of those, way too many engines, far too little time in this world. I think that is a great choice, and you will really enjoy it running, I'm sure. :bugeye: :thumbup: mad jack
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Hi Andy,
I hadn't seen this until now. Will definitely be watching your project unfold, they look a most interesting engine to watch with the unusual linkage. I was looking on the internet last night for suppliers of castings for Rider Ericsson, are there none in the UK? Yours look like quite nice castings? How much did they set you back if you don't mind me asking?
Nick
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Hi Andy,
suppliers of castings for Rider Ericsson, are there none in the UK? Yours look like quite nice castings? How much did they set you back if you don't mind me asking?
Nick
Camden steam do a set http://www.camdenmin.co.uk/media/RELeaflet.pdf
Rob
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Thanks Rob,
Well that's one potential project struck off the list - there's no way I could afford that sort of money for the forseeable future!
:offtopic:The price of castings have gone through the roof in the last 10-15 years! about 12 years ago I was dead set on building a sweet pea 5" gauge locomotive and I bought a professional boiler for Ģ570 (I'm told that would be about double now) I also managed to buy some unofficial castings for Ģ90 for the full set. Just the weight of the stuff would be worth more than that now! I shudder to think how much a full set from Blackgates is.
Still, it's a great looking engine and can't wait to see Andy's project progress.
Nick
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Hi Nick,
I got mine from Myers Engine Works in the USA, $305 including postage, less than half Camden's price.
It's a nice set and they even include the steel and copper pipes for the cylinder liner, displacer piston and smoke stack.
The firebox is a casting too even though the plans show you how to fabricate one from sheet.
I put the enquiry in a posting on the Cork Board, titled Myers Engine Works. http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=3539.msg38049#msg38049
Mine is the quarter scale, 2in bore model. Clarence also does 1in and 3in bore models.
http://www.myersengines.com/engines/rider-ericsson.htm
Andy
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Hi Andy,
Ah right, that sounds much more reasonable and sounds like a good kit too. I saw a different kit from the USA the other day and thought it was a better buy than kits in the UK, however was wondering if I would get stung with some sort of import tax or duty?
Will have a look at the website, thanks for the info.
Nick
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Hi Nick,
Ģ42.18 VAT, including Ģ8 handling charge.
Have a look at my post and it is all explained.
Andy
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Hi Andy,
Thanks, yep I sent that before I read the posts!
Still a good buy then. Unfortunately it seems the little version is out of stock. Will save that website - it's not off the list any more!
Nick
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Hi all,
Happy new year!
Thank you for your interest so far.
I am sorry about the lack of recorded progress.
I work for an animal feed company and the run up to Chrimbo is our busiest time, that, coupled with the drop in temperature (by heck it was cold in my workshop, even my 3 - in - 1 oil froze!) means that I did not venture forth to the shed of earthly delights.
I have been doing a lot of hand work but photos of hacksawing and filing might be a bit boring! I have been marking out which I can do indoors...all run of the mill, boring stuff! I will get back out there soon to photograph the...boring stuff! :lol:
Andy
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Oh well, at long last I have a bit more to offer.
Of course, my plan to strap the base to my vertical slide was as much use as an ashtray on a motorbike...the base is the same width! Back to the drawing board. :bang:
As you can see, I had to mount the base at a 45 degree angle on the narrow vertical slide mounted on a rotating base. Its funny, you get all these bits when you buy old lathes but it takes some working out how to use them!
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Boringbase3.jpg)
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Boringbase1.jpg)
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Boringbase2.jpg)
Finally sorted that.
Next trick...the cylinder wouldn't stay clamped in the 3 jaw chuck. Tried holding it inside and out. Kept coming loose.
Hmmm
Went back to the library. Oh look, about a million years ago someone thought of putting paper between metal to increase the grip! :doh:
Yes, I know, you all use the trick regularly...well I forgot! :bang:
Mounted the cylinder in a 3 jaw and oh look, it works :ddb:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Facingcylinderbase1.jpg)
Next comes boring the cylinder. How to mount it? 4 jaw...easy! Oops! 5 inch chuck doesn't have enough space between the jaws for the table. Ok, 6 inch chuck. I sat it togther on the bench.
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Cylinderboringsetup1.jpg)
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Cylinderboringsetup2.jpg)
Looks good...er... no. The jaws close on the table by about 1/32 of an inch before centralling.
Ok, try the other way... spent hours looking for a piece of soft metal a the same thickness as the jaw step. Finally found an old copper electrical strap.
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Cylinderboringsetup3.jpg)
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Cylinderboringsetup5.jpg)
I have put the chuck onto the lathe but ran out of time to set it up properly.
I see now why it takes some people 25 years to build a locomotive or traction engine!!! :poke:
Sorry about the slow progress people, I will try to follow what my old school reports complained of...'could do better'!! :lol:
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I'd be tempted to put it back in the 3 jaw and turn the edge of the flange, that way when you reverse it in the 4 jaw you can use a fixed steady on the edge of the flange which will be a lot safer and should also give a better finish as it will be a more rigid setup.
Other option would be to fix the casting to the cross slide and use a between ctrs bar as its a long overhang using a chuck.
Keep up the good work.
J
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Nice setups Andy.
Take it gently and everything should be just fine. I gather that you don't have a faceplate for your lathe, that would allow, coupled with your angle plate, safer and more rigid setups.
Just remember that you only have one go at it before more expense drags it's a**e into the equation.
I am glad you have realised that working with castings is not the same as nice, neat and easy barstock. Sometimes it seems like you will never be able to hold it safely and rigid enough, but where there is a will there is a way, something always pops up.
Don't ignore good advice that is being given by other people, they are not trying to take over your post or be smart a**ses. They have most probably been thru it all before and can let you know about the pitfalls and successes, and it could save you a great deal of time, effort and maybe money in the long run.
Machining castings is totally different to normal run of the mill stuff.
Looking good.
Bogs
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Andy.
The more I see, and admire, your set up struggles....... :clap:
The more I am pleased, my R/E came to me as an orphan. With all the large awkward parts done.... I hope! :thumbup:
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/PB230006.jpg)
Work will commence, one day. When other commitments are sorted..... ::)
Love the rotating base, positioning fixture thing, you used.
Great work...... Keep it coming on..... :D
David D
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Thank you for the kind words chaps. :nrocks:
Thanks Bogs, I am always ready to take advice...that's one of the reasons I am putting up the project log and showing my difficulties! I have got a faceplate but can't think how to mount the cylinder on it...any and all suggestions, both polite and humourous welcome! Unless...I make up a collar to go round the narrow towards the base and tie it to the faceplate with rods and bottlescrews, with blocks to adjust and keep it steady against the faceplate.
Thank you for the fixed steady tip Jason. Unfortunately my original Drummond fixed steady is 2.25" across the throat and the finished size of the cylinder end is 2.276". Original fixed steadies are rare as rocking horse...er...stuff, I bought a whole lathe just to get one! I dont want to cut it about. Hmm...The old boys used to use bits of wood quite a lot. I've got a little pamphlet from the '20s showing some of the things made on a treadle Roundbed (9 cylinder radial engine etc). It has some weird (?) setups there, might give me some ideas. Thanks again.
Hopefully future progress will be a little more swift...but don't hold your breath for the next installment, it might be terminal! :lol:
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Its easier when you have a flat surface to go against the angleplate (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Fowler%20construction/PICT0001.jpg) but something can usually be cobbled together.
J
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...Original fixed steadies are rare as rocking horse...er...stuff, I bought a whole lathe just to get one!...
Last month's MEW had construction articles by Harold Hall for both fixed and traveling steadies. Maybe you could cobble something up from his idea. Looks easy enough.
Dave.
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Thank you the ideas.
I went with Jason's...sort of.
I started again and set the the cylinder back up as I had for the facing cut of the table. (Aluminium is soft enough to make marks to see where I had mounted it last time...heehee!) I bored the top hole round and then mounted it on the inside jaws of a small 3 jaw.
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Cylindermountmk2.jpg)
It sat a treat and I was able to cut the base end to just under dimensions, then finish it all off once treble checking it all!!!
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Cylinderbasecut.jpg)
So far so good!
Bogs will have a field day over this bit....
It is strange how some cuts have to remove 1/4 to 1/2 an inch of metal while others, notably the base bore and the cylinder base bore are on dimension and have only enough space to remove casting high points and rough areas! :scratch: :bang:
Never mind, I am feeling pretty chuffed with myself!
Next bit is to bore the top end of the cylinder for the sleeve..that will be slow and steady!!!! :thumbup:
Please feel free to offer suggestions and advice. Even if I don't take it straight away on the job in hand I store it all away for future use. :bow:
Andy
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Not at all Andy, you took some good advice, and by carrying it out, you got the job done safely.
With regards to sizes. You will find that with some castings. Where you have little to play with on some parts and bags on another. It is for that reason, you have to go all over the castings before getting it anywhere near a machine, and work from those very tight dimensions at the start if possible, the over large ones can look after themsleves.
If you are going to get into castings in a big way, it might pay you to either buy or make some tailstock fittings that will allow you to support items that stick a long way out of the chuck.
I made myself a rotating tailstock chuck, but you can get away with making or buying a large cone centre.
I look around commercial tooling sites, even foreign ones, just for ideas. You can make a lot of things yourself if you put your mind to it.
Here are just a couple of simple examples of what I was on about.
Go down to the bottom, rotating tailstock backplate. I knocked one up to fit an old 80mm chuck I had.
http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Lathe-Accessories/Tailstock-Accessories
Second one down
http://rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/3MT_REVOLVING_CENTRE_SECTION.html
Lots to look at here
http://rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/2MT_REVOLVING_CENTRE_SECTION.html
All sorts of ideas spring to mind, especially when you look at the boxed set at the end.
If you don't want to go that way, if you plan ahead a little with the parts you are making, you can make something up like in the C-o-C at the bottom.
It is all part of the fun when working with castings.
John
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Thanks John,
I have got a revolving centre, I used it against a piece of wood while setting up the MKI cylinder mount in the 4 jaw.
I really like the idea of the revolving chuck backplate...hmmm...I've got 2 80mm 4 jaws...take some setting up each time but can also be used for offset work (crankshafts etc)
The old Drummonds use 1MT but I have some spare blank arbours.
Yes, I feel a touch of :proj: coming on.
Many thanks for the ideas John and everybody else. :nrocks:
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Looking good Andy, they are an interesting build, and, as you say, some areas have lots to come off, & others just require a skim.
I found I could hold most things in my 3 jaw, I had to use the 4 jaw to grab the external of the flywheel.
I'm not sticking to all the building specs (measurements, yes. material used, no) if you're interested mine is posted here, http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/about36368.html
You can learn by my mistakes. :D
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That's a nice job you are doing Bernie! :bow: I'm worried about drilling the cylinder and base too soon in case it doesn't line up at the top :( this is my first engine build!
John, had a brainwave on the way home from work...why just a backplate? I am going to make a revolving nose so that I can fit any chuck :lol: yes I know, none of them will be accurate :doh: But there again, they don't have to be do they?
Andy
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Just been through the whole of your thread Bernie; that is a cracking project log and so full of useful tips, thank you...especially on reading mistakes which I am prone to :lol:
I can see now that I can bolt the base and leave the lining up to the beam...can I?
David, I can measure all the bits that were supplied if you want, just let me know what you need...although I think Bernie has said it all.
Later chaps
Andy
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Thanks for your offer of help Andy! :thumbup:
Several emails to Myers, for the missing parts, are unanswered......
Eventually, had a reply from Camden. Six weeks ago...... Heard nothing since! ::)
No rush, lots of other things to do first..... :D
David D
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You're waiting for your mill, aren't you David?? :thumbup:
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You're waiting for your mill, aren't you David?? :thumbup:
Oh, YES! :D
And a blummin big bagfull of TIME........ ::)
David D
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David, Myers are slow to reply but helpful once you make contact.
Sorry about the lack of progress last weekend; got a new 125mm 3 jaw and spent the time machining the cast iron blank backplate.
It should overcome some of my holding problems! :bang:
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Hi all,
Still sorry for lack of progress...
Been putting up a 12' x 12' shed for her indoors.
I don't know...10 years ago I built a 16' x 18' garage to my own design. It seemed to go up in no time at all.
It took me 2 weeks just to dig out the base and concrete this one (had to clear loads of tree roots), then a week to strip and move it from its former location and another week to put it up in the garden (ok, it wasn't the whole of the week, just the spare time I have at weekends and evenings). A month to build a shed!!!!
I hate this getting old lark!!!! :lol:
I built it for her so I could clear the garage of the crap that had been dumped in there... saying nothing :bang:
Still, I have got my garage back, just got to sort it, then I can get back in the machine shop. :nrocks:
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I had to do the same Andy, although mine is only an 8x6 - it's full though, can't imagine all that rubbish being in the garage now! If she ever starts dumping stuff in there I'll just stick another shed up, she'll soon realise it's eating up her garden :lol:
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Hi all,
The creature from the black latrine has re-entered the land of the living!
I tidied up my Photobucket album into sub albums and now they have gone from the log! Oh bugger! :doh:
I will have to reinsert them :doh:
Her indoors is happy with her shed but isn't doing anything with it yet...now why am I not surprised?
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/ChateauMiranda.jpg)
I have to be honest and admit to being frightened of continuing from where I had got to. There was so much that could go wrong so I had to build my confidence and exercise a whole load of prevarication! :lol:
One of my fears was tapping the 5BA holes so I hunted around and found a Champion Sensitive Drill...
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Lathe%20and%20Engineering/KGrHqQOKo0E1z0tSdfQBNto0IjD5g_12.jpg)
This became the basis for a tapping tool just by making an interchangeable head...
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Lathe%20and%20Engineering/Tappingtool.jpg)
I then drilled and tapped the base for the cylinder and inserted cut-down screws...making proper studs was a bit too fiddly!:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Cylinderstuds.jpg)
I cheated. The plan calls for 8 studs for the cylinder and 6 for the hot cap with 2 in close proximity on virtually the same diameter ring.
I set it all up in the Rotary Table and drilled right through both sets of 8 holes all of 22.5 degrees apart so no coming up against a stud coming the other way. The bottom ones can't be seen and there is a gasket between each anyway.
I made the cylinder liner which fits a treat! I am surprised! :bugeye:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Cylinderandliner.jpg)
From there I went to the flywheel bracket.
I took the advice given earlier about mounting on the face plate; found a centre and lined it up with a tailstock centre which took all of 5 minutes! I was very pleased. Set 2 changewheels as counterbalances and to brace the bracket.
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Flywheelbracketsetup3.jpg)
Not a lot of room again here...
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Flywheelbracketsetup4.jpg)
Faced the boss and centre drilled, and drilled out to 0.100" undersize ready for boring:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Flywheelbracketboring.jpg)
At this point I was told that my supper was nearly in the cat so had to retire for the night. The bore has to be spot on to take 2 press-fit needle roller bearings so I want more time and no pressure before I start.
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:update:
Another day...and I have done exactly what Bernie has done! Grrr.... :(
Evidently the internal jaws on my lovely superdooper calipers overlap by 0.001 so my increments are 0.002 out (for the reason given in Bernie's project log)! :doh:
Oh well, find some 0.001 feeler guages and shim it up!
Having a cup of tea while I calm down. :(
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All is not lost :D
After hunting through my piles of 'junk' that will always be useful one day (despite what SWMBO says)..nothing suitable.
Asked a couple of mates...again no joy.
Then it hit me. Beer cans. Measured a Carlsberg can...exactly 0.003 thick! :ddb:
My mate reckons this must now be probably the best engine in the world :lol:
Milled the flywheel bracket legs taking time to square up:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Millingthelegs.jpg)
Put together loosely. Starting to look like a real one now :clap:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Startingtolooklikeone.jpg)
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Nice work..... And a nice save Andy! :clap: :clap:
I wonder when/ if mine will ever progress. :scratch:
David D
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Thanks David,
I am sure that yours will race along, particularly with your mill.
It seems to take me months of building the courage to take the next step. :(
I am milling in a lathe which has such a small table which frightens me somewhat, but I will figure it out. I am just not confident enough to go charging in with the limited workholding available. I do have an incredible sense of achievement though as this is my first engine.
It's funny, I will quite happily cut a Jacobs 1 taper or a 1 Morse taper that goes spot on which others seem to be daunted by, yet chicken out of stuff that everyone seems to take in their stride :scratch:
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It's funny, I will quite happily cut a Jacobs 1 taper or a 1 Morse taper that goes spot on which others seem to be daunted by, yet chicken out of stuff that everyone seems to take in their stride :scratch:
I know exactly what you mean Andy! Lots of ops. phase me, until I grit me teeth........ :wack:
Also.... Why have I had an all aft/ eve buzz/ high....... :ddb: :ddb:
When all I've done is to open an 18mm hole in Gold Blend's deck, and start on a slitting saw arbour...... ::)
Great hobby this, innit! :thumbup:
David D
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:update:
Another day...and I have done exactly what Bernie has done! Grrr.... :(
Evidently the internal jaws on my lovely superdooper calipers overlap by 0.001 so my increments are 0.002 out (for the reason given in Bernie's project log)! :doh:
Oh well, find some 0.001 feeler guages and shim it up!
Having a cup of tea while I calm down. :(
Sorry Andy, but I had to have a giggle, it's not as if you weren't warned about that "extra" cut. :bugeye:
Coming along nicely, I still haven't lit a fire under mine.......yet!!
(http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t184/oldcranker/Twin%20cylinder%20build/100_1163.jpg)
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Oh well,
Another day, another f*** up! :(
Snapped a 5BA tap off in the cylinder! :bang:
Fixed it though by breaking up the bits of tap in the hole, extending the hole with an end mill, then turning a plug to fit. :ddb:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/RepairedCylinder.jpg)
Got a replacement plug tap. Funny...not really plug taps are they? Got one now though by grinding the snapped one off flat :nrocks:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Lathe%20and%20Engineering/5BAtaps.jpg)
Got fed up of putting down Allen keys then having to sort through them all to find the right one... :proj:
Old computer hard drives have great magnets that just happen to screw onto a convenient bit of workshop :clap:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Harddrivemagnets.jpg)
This means it took me all day to complete one little threading job :( :( But that is the fun of it. Sense of achievement riding high again :lol:
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Good to hear you finished the day on a high Andy! :D
Talking about holes in cylinders. Watch where this water pipe hole is situated.......
(http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n95/Dayjo/PB280001-1.jpg)
Not my work, and the flywheel o/d is only roughed. BUT........
I guess there's some re positioning to be done here! :bang: :bang:
David D.
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Thank you chaps.
BK; I forgot to thank you for the photo; it helps a great deal :bow:
David; a great many thanks for the heads up on the water outlet; I hadn't considered that yet but, knowing my luck, would do exactly the same! :(
This seems to be a popular engine engine to build judging by the number of people offering help and advice with photos...and I have to say :worthless:
Andy
PS. Don't know how much I will get done today as Her Ladyship wants to go to Eye Show (near Diss)
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Been doing little bits, but got caught up with a :proj:
Some of you may have realised that I am daft about Drummond lathes although I am not sniffy about the Myford built M types after 1942.
Well, I found a long bed Myford M with the electric drive. It has had a hard but not very productive life; the back gear has been removed after whatever happened to knock a load of teeth off the bull wheel and small engagement gear (don't know what that one is called). The half nut has been attacked by whatever has been dragged along the leadscrew, but the leadscrew is almost perfect! Bed is great condition.
My hoard of bits has come into play (despite all SWMBO's comments to the contrary) and I have ended up with an almost brand new condition lathe...my 9th :doh:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/LongBedM.jpg)
I have done some more on the engine though.
The needle roller bearings for the flywheel bracket fir perfectly after my repair...
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Flywheelbearings.jpg)
The walking arm bearings are in place, just need boring...
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Bearings.jpg)
The power piston is on its way to being a fit in the liner, but I am taking that very slowly ::)
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/PowerPiston.jpg)
I have found an ideal bearing plate to mount the flywheel onto the face plate; an old Harley Davidson clutch plate! :smart: (from another box of bits that she said I ought to chuck out :lol:) It has holes already drilled in just the right places :). I have used a friction plate so it will prevent slip against the aluminium...remembering the problems I had with the cylinder :lol:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/ClampplateonfaceplateOldclutchplate.jpg)
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Thought it was you who posted the flywheel pic on ME, comming along nicely
J
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Hi Jason,
Yes, sorry about that, I couldn't resist it after all the crap about Myford compatible... :lol:
Andy
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Hi Andy, just wanted to let you know I'm still watching and enjoying your build. Good to see the inovative mind at work, and not everything just falling into place. It's important to know the dimensions of all sorts of things like beer cans, stove pipe, and other things which will fill extra space unintended. Remember too, spring steel shim stock is always another choice when such issues spring up. Very nice looking, hope to see some linkages hooked up and looking more like an engine. :jaw: :beer: Cheers, mad jack
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Thank you Mad Jack,
All encouragement gratefully received! :nrocks:
I am at the fiddly bits stage which takes forever to complete. :bang:
Got the piston sized perfectly to the cylinder liner :clap:; got the power piston centre turned, I have got to make and solder on the conrod brackets. :scratch:
Turned the flywheel...
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Turningtheflywheel.jpg)
:doh: Spins lovely on the lathe but there is a slight wobble on the crankshaft :bang:
Made the crank and spent hours polishing the marks out of it. Drilled the walking beam.
Yes, I know... :worthless: but do you REALLY want to see pictures of me rubbing with emery paper/turning straight shafts/scratching my head wondering how I am going to whatever bit is next/scratching my head wondering what thread to tap drill for/scratching my head because all the scratching has taken my hair off... :lol: :lol: :lol:
But to appease you all...
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Startingtocometogether.jpg)
I am not fitting the cylinder liner until the cylinder machining is done because I want all the swarf out before
it gets stuck in a water line somewhere. Will have to put it in though to fix the walking arm.
I am sorry this is taking so long :(
Andy
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Cor, you been scratching that too as theres no hair on it either.
Nice job though.
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This engine of you're seams coming along very well, good work :thumbup: :clap: :clap:
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Hi all,
I am most terribly sorry, progress has been held up for the moment. :(
I have 'inherited', via my next door neighbours, a complete workshop :bugeye:
I have had to completely rearrange my workshop, which was full anyway, to get everything in.
So now I have two workshops of equipment in one :lol:
(I have actually ended up with more space!!! :clap:)
Just got to make places for all the tooling to go. I have had to take out the old 1914 Drummond :(...to make way for a Super 7 :lol: :lol:
The old Bradson drill has been relegated to the garage to make way for a monster 12 speed!
Got to clean them all up first as water had been getting in where they were but the damage is negligable though it all looked worse at first sight :ddb:
It was all going to be skipped!!!!!!!! :bugeye:
Of course, I am not gloating or anything...Miranda says she is sick of hearing about it!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
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How irksome, to be held up by something so trivial :lol:
You will have to alter the caption under your avatar, now.
We need a Green with Envy emoticon.
Andyf
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Oh, Andy!! :bugeye:
What a terrible thing to happen! (http://freesmileyface.net/smiley/confused/sorry-20.gif) (http://freesmileyface.net)
Sincerely hope you can sort out your present predicament, without too much trouble....... :D :lol: :lol:
David D
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Well, Still, if you're going to use some cheesy excuse like that, the least you could do is put up some pics of the new pieces gained, and the shop as it now is better filled, and more useful :med: are we all supposed to drual till you put up some photos? :drool: :loco: :poke: :bang: Cheers, mad jack
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Well,
Here goes. What happened is that my next door neighbour's uncle was an engineer, dealing with abrasives...there are no end of grinding wheels. He lost interest in his own stuff when his wife died. Later he got Alzheimers or something similar. The garage with a flat roof started to leak years ago and was not repaired, leading to more and more damage and rot. Evidently he used to hang buckets under the leaks :bugeye:
All the workshop was promised to my neighbour years ago. The old boy has now had to go into a home and the house being sold off as is to pay for it. My neighbour is not interested now so gave everything to me for a very nominal sum. Everything would have been skipped! If the house had not been sold by the time the bad weather starts again then nothing would have been salvageable; I got there just in time!
It is lovely to get all this stuff, but I am mindful of the circumstances by which it came to me, as well as the circumstances that have led to the damge and think to myself that it could be me in a few years. I am planning now where it goes when I croak or clap out. I too, have a nephew... :lol:
Anyway, enough of the maudlin....
:drool: on...
The lathe:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/MyfordSuper7.jpg)
The tray behind is full of chucks, angle plate and other stuff soaking in kerosene as part of the rescue mission.
The box under the bench is full of ferrous metals of various kinds. There were also 2 lumps of brass round nearly a foot long and a bronze (I think) bar 3" x 3/8" and about 3 feet long, and various bits of aluminium...
I spent yesterday trying to sort the boxes of stuff. I had to give up! :bang: There is just so much :lol:
To be honest though, some is just scrap now because of water damage. There are boxes and boxes of drills and reamers, straight shank, 1MT and a few 2MT. I found a box of burrs and small grinding wheels, another of measuring equipment, a box full of bearings of different sizes, and one full of wood-butchering hinges!
It is a mixed bag but too much and too mixed to be able to sort and put away...which was my plan! :bang: :lol:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Boxesofstuff.jpg)
This only half of it! There is more on my new workbench; handy angle topped with a ply and steel sheet:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/newbench.jpg)
I stole a small table from SWMBO's shed (don't tell her!!!) that fits underneath as a slide out marking table:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/markingouttableundernewbench.jpg)
This is the drill:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Naerok12speeddrill.jpg)
The brown on the column is actually the original protective grease...it is not that old!
As I said, big rescue mission! I have found that all the lathe bearings have been greased :bang:
So it is a full strip down and clean out. The apron handwheel bearing is badly worn so has to be replaced...no doubt because of using grease!
Now to tidy up so I can use the extra space I just made... :bang:
Andy
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Incidentally,
I have got to build another shed now :bang:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Life is just SO hard!!!! :lol:
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Well Andy, you might not be speeding along on the engine, but the day will come when you're glad you got one particular piece you need right now, and from that day onward, you will find yourself digging through the new boxes, and finding the odd tool you didn't use to have. That shed you just moved is an awfully fine looking one, now if you just put together another to match, you ought to be able to fit all the tools and equipment easily, and then get back to work :lol: Twenty years ago, I had to dig to find a place for the smallest new item coming into my shop, today, I just have to shove some old oddments out of the way and make room, but I don't seem to find near as much time to use it. At least it was fine old equipment, and some of it was greased well. I hope to see some pictures of engine parts coming along again soon, looking forward to watching that engine run. :jaw: :hammer: Cheers, mad jack
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Hi Mad Jack,
Thanks...the shed will probably be a lean-to type backed onto hers, probably no more than 6' x 12', to put the 1914 longbed B in for woodbutchering. Can't bear to part with it though I have the 1947 longbed M to go in its place :doh:
I have to ask; is your picture of a Pan or Generator Shovel? Is it a model or full-size?
Got a 1976 SuperGlide myself. Owned it for 22 years! Don't get the time to ride much now :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
Andy
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Hi
Andy
That engine is looking great :thumbup: :thumbup:
I would think the old boy would be happy that his machinery is being rescued :dremel: :dremel:
It makes me wonder what will happen to my gear when i am not around (BE A LONG TIME YET THOUGH) :) :)
John
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Thanks John.
That is what my neighbour says which is why I got it.
Hopefully I have got about 30 years of use left in me too but it shows that it pays to plan ahead... :lol:
My nephew is in for a large inheritance at this rate :lol: :lol:
Andy
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Nice windfall Andy :jaw:. that gear will come in handy for years. :thumbup:
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Hi Mad Jack,
Thanks...the shed will probably be a lean-to type backed onto hers, probably no more than 6' x 12', to put the 1914 longbed B in for woodbutchering. Can't bear to part with it though I have the 1947 longbed M to go in its place :doh:
I have to ask; is your picture of a Pan or Generator Shovel? Is it a model or full-size?
Got a 1976 SuperGlide myself. Owned it for 22 years! Don't get the time to ride much now :( :( :( :( :( :( :(
Andy
Hi Andy, that is a new engine, it is 103 cu. inches, it is a pan engine, but it has an alternator case also, and I have built a centrifugal advance for a magneto, which is chain driven through the generator hole, to fire the other pair of plugs, with an electronic (Mallory unilite) ignition distributor, as the primary ignition. It was built about six years ago, but I got side tracked on the frame, and since then come across flywheels which have not been drilled reamed and tapered for a crank pin. I don't like the five in stroke I had, and since that was all I had at the time of its building, I went ahead and used them, but they make for excessive piston speed, and a short, usually explosive, engine life. With the "blank" flywheels" I now have it is my intention to tear it down and put in 4 and five eighths stroke flywheels, which would use the same pistons and cylinders, but reduce piston speed down so engine life would be close to stock, and it would have a 98 cu. in displacement. I currently have a 96 custom built bike which is a shovelhead of 90 inches, with a custom build chrome moly frame, with everything having been built and or designed by myself. I have half a dozen engines desired to be built or rebuilt before I can honestly get back to working on my own, so it sits there waiting for me. I once had a 74 Sportster, back in 76, and then a 74 police special, in 77, and then got a family and let the bikes go for a decade or two.
I now have it all, a shop fifty yards from the house, medically retired from the Marines, the two kids grown up and on their own, a wife who loves her yard, and working it her way, and no time to ride, because it takes so much time to make all these fiddly little parts. I don't think I put two hundred miles on my bike this year and I used to put 12 to 15 thousand every year, just riding to work. I'm hoping to see a trans-atlantic bridge built before I die, so I can ride over and visit some of my newfound friends from madmodder. :lol: :beer: Cheers, mad jack
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Thanks Jack, you would be most welcome!
Several mates have built large engines. It would seem that 99 is the magic number. As you say, the faster piston speed makes for excessive wear, not to mention the problems with starting! Decompression valves are ok but tie that in with an S&S carb that needs setting up and you have a recipe for losing weight faster than any of the advertised scams when kicking it over.
The electric leg (don't believe in them...spawn of the devil!) also gets a bit temperamental (emphasis on the 'mental') at trying to turn over such a big lump.
I had an '82 Ironhead that was completely original...even to the emissions laws exhaust. No kicker...even look at the throttle and it would flood...you could wind that battery completely flat, it would not start!!! :bang: :bang: :bang:
Not good when friends wanted to sit on it...why do they always piss about with the throttle????? :wack: :wack:
Got a '42 45 motor mated to a '60 BSA A10 gearbox that needs finishing (been doing that for many many years!!!)
Oops, this thread seems to be going really :offtopic:
Better get on and do something constructive this weekend!!!
Andy
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Hi all,
Finished rebuilding the shed and the Super 7. Like the Longbed M, it has not done much work but it had been sorely neglected. Rebushed the apron, cleaned up the bed and saddle from the rust which had not done too much damage, cleaned the grease which had been spread all over everything covered up or hidden away...and been used for lubrication :bang: (that is why I had to rebush the apron!)
So...finally finished the power piston centre...
I didn't follow the plan as it said to make two bosses and silver solder them on the sides...recipe for disaster I thought, better drill right through and slug the cross piece in one.
Levelling up for drilling;
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Levellingpowerpistoncentre.jpg)
Then went round to my mate. I have not soldered or brazed before so thought I had better get professional assistance to show me how it is done. Fairly straightforward; I can do it on my own after this...no worries :lol: :lol:
Drilled most of the way through over size to leave a short bearing at the top, then turned up a brass plug and inserted for a short bearing at the bottom:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Finishedcentre.jpg)
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Finishedcentre2.jpg)
It's funny, after all this time doing all the other stuff, I had forgotten where I had got to and had to look on this log to see :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
I am after a hand shaper and was reading through L C Mason's book on building the Minnie and there is an idea for using a topslide as a keyway cutter. Funnily enough, in my boxes of bits...
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Lathe%20and%20Engineering/Anewproject.jpg)
:proj:
Just making a T bolt to act as a hinge point. Trying to figure out how to position the slide pivot...on top like the toolpost or mounted on the back as Mason says. Think it will be like the toolpost.
Roll on next weekend
Andy
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Great project Andy! :thumbup:
I really like how you got so much done on the Drummond which I assume is not much, if any, bigger than my 1908 flat bed.
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Hi John,
Many thanks for the kind words.
All the Drummond flatbeds are 3.5 ins so mine is the same size as yours...ooer missus! :)
It is half the fun figuring out how to make stuff fit; I look at pictures of milling machine set ups and think that it makes life so easy...but would I appreciate the hobby as much? It would seem a bit like work. Of course, the other thing is cost, not just the machine itself but all the tooling required.
I have got myself set up really nicely to be able to tackle almost any job within my scope. I had to bore a 5in diameter, 1 foot long gearbox sleeve for work and the little M walked it...after I had made an indexible boring bar from a length of key steel and an odd insert...then mounted it the right way up! :lol: :lol: :lol:
I have to say that the B/M type bed is as stiff as anything and the M headstock bearings are fabulous! I can cut 1/4 inch of cast iron in back gear! The B headstocks struggle to not chatter at that.
There is something about the Drummonds which gets me every time. The Super 7 is quite fiddly to use as I am used to, it wants to automate every movement and I don't trust it not to go too far. The lack of leadscrew clutch means that you have to turn all the changewheels as well to use the leadscrew handwheel which is hard work when I have got the fine feed all set up nicely. :doh:
Horses for courses, use the machine for the job...but hooray for Drummonds!!!! :D :D :D
Andy
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Work has been postponed!
There is something wrong with my shoulders and right arm. My right thumb is numb and won't bend at the top joint. :( :( It is like I have permanent cramp in both forearms that then seize up.
Thought it was a trapped nerve. Went to an Osteopath but after cracking me up (literally) she says I have to go back to the quack. :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:
Could be something to do with the medication I am on for high blood pressure.
Tried to get on with the piston centre but a muscle spasm on a vital cut buggered it a bit so I daren't risk doing worse! :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
A very unhappy bunny! :( :( :( :(
Andy
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Hi
Andy
Hope they get you sorted
Regards
John
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Andy
Hope things get better for you
Stew
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Ohh, Andy!
So sorry to hear of your flexibility/ dexterity troubles..... (http://serve.mysmiley.net/sad/sad0122.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net)
Hope you can be quickly, and easily, sorted. :thumbup:
David D
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Thank you kindly chaps, I do appreciate the well wishes.
Spent the day at Forncett Industrial Steam Museum today, helping out.
If I can't play with little ones I will get out to play with the big buggers!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
Can't do a lot of harm to 20 ton lumps of iron! :lol: :lol: :lol:
We apologise for the break in transmission. Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible.
Andy
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Hi guys,
Has it been that long already???? :doh: :doh: :doh:
A bit of good news; I can lift my arm above my shoulder but the right hand is still crap! I have been doing little bits now and again when I figure out how to do something without having a working thumb (you wouldn't believe how crippling it is to not have a thumb to grip with!)
Just to let you all know; Forncett Industrial Steam Museum has its annual Model Engineering Day on the first Sunday in October, the 7th. Do come along, it is a fantastic day with loads of really friendly people...mind you, you have to be friendly if you can find your way there...you need someone to tell you how to get home again! Haha
If you are in the vicinity of Norwich to Ipswich A140 near Long Stratton (that's Norfolk in England) you will bevery welcome. I will be playing with the big ones although I might have enough done of this RE to show willing. 10 steaming engines from the baby that used to pump treacle at the Colman's mustard factory (and now pumps out the condenser of a Gimson Beam engine of 1879, up to an 85 ton triple compound water pump, including the Tower Bridge No 3 engine.
Andy
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Hi everyone,
Sorry that it has been so long since I put anything worthwhile up. I messed up several bits that I had spent ages making that I thought it was better to leave it for a while. As I said in the previous post, the arm works better but the hand is the same.
Still, I have been creeping into the shed and doing a bit now and then, and again when I cock it up. The power piston centre has had three attempts to put bushes in, each time it went wrong because of muscle spasms. Maybe there is something in using the self-acting bits on the Super 7... :poke:
Never mind, onward and upward...
I have completed the displacer cylinder, the displacer piston and the linkages. Actually, the displacer cylinder is also the mark III version... :lol: :lol:
The displacer piston:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Displacerpiston_zpsbf152778.jpg)
The engine so far:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Linkagescomplete1_zpsb83c0694.jpg)
It all turns freely with no resistance...I did take a video on my phone camera but the picture is dreadful!
So here are pictures of the linkages with the displacer piston at top and bottom of travel (the power piston is set at 90 degrees which is why it looks a bit strange in relation:
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/DisplacerPistondown_zps799cb371.jpg)
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Rider%20Ericsson%20build/Displacerpistonup_zps4794125d.jpg)
At the moment I have to locate and bolt down the walking beam bracket, remake the crank (it doesn't sit perfectly square to the crankshaft), locate and bolt on the burner box and then make the water pump and pipe it all up. The power piston cylinder is still loose as I want to be able to get the swarf out when I drill into the water jacket.
It all needs tidying up when I have completed fabrication, so please forgive the state of bits.
I have promised to have it at Forncett Model Engineers Day on the first Sunday of October...it won't be finished but it will be something to look at...if anyone cares :lol: :lol:
Will keep you informed...
Incidently, I bit the bullet and got myself a Centec 2A vertical and horizontal milling machine. I got it cheap and had to rebuild it but it was worth it!
(http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/andybelcher/Lathe%20and%20Engineering/Centec2A_zps233df98d.jpg)
I just happened to have a Drummond stand doing nothing, so adjusted it to fit as the Centec didn't have a stand, and I wouldn't have had room for one anyway. The little shed is about full now! :lol: :lol:
It has made such a difference to the way that I machine parts but there was another learning curve! :lol: :lol:
Andy
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Hi Andy.
So sorry to hear you're still not functioning properly. It must be very frustrating...... :bang:
Nice work on the parts. :clap:
That looks to be a crackin' little mill! :bugeye:
Hope conditions improve for you, soon...... (http://serve.mysmiley.net/happy/happy0144.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net)
David D
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Nice engine you got there :D
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Thank you for the kind words...and thank you for not being angry that it is taking me so long to get anywhere with this! :nrocks:
I had such high hopes when I started out :doh:
Andy :(
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well it looks apsalotle fantstic as for time it will be dun one day
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There's no hurry Andy, I will still be here for a while yet.
Jim
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HI Andy , good to see your making progress with the engine build , its looking good :clap: :clap: :clap: , you are building your engine quicker than I , started my RE engine about 17 years ago and its still not finished :palm:
The Centec 2A looks spot on , nice fined :thumbup:
Rob