MadModder
Gallery, Projects and General => The Design Shop => Topic started by: fluxcored on February 08, 2010, 05:46:05 AM
-
Hi All,
I need to cut some change gears in the near future and am investigating ways of cutting the slots. I've found Stew's excellent write up http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1859.0 (http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1859.0) on how to quickly make a keyway slotter which is more than adequate for my purposes.
However it got me thinking, and I want to throw the idea out there. How about using an old drill press as a quick and easy slotter? I've got a bench top drill press that's just sitting idle. I'm busy making pigtails for mops I bought the other day to turn it into a buffing station and on my project list is an adaptor to turn wooden handles on it also. It'll be great if it also can function as a simple slotter even if only to time me over until I have some quiet time to build a dedicated hand operated slotter.
Oh and I plan to make the gears out of either aluminum, brass or bronze. Soft material so that if I get the gears wrong, it does'nt damage the existing gear train of the lathe.
Regards.
-
You can just use a boringh bar holder in the lathe with a square tool that has a vertical cutting edge and plane the slot in with teh carrage a few thou at a time.
The materials you are looking at will be easy, I've done quite a few in steel upto 3/16" wide keys and 1" long like the four in this gear centre (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v156/jasonballamy/Fowler%20A7/A7-2ndShaftGears.jpg)
Jason
-
Hi Jason,
I planned on doing that but then read that it's a strain on the lathe. But I guess you right, especially with the softer material I'll be using.
Seems I worry and over think things too much.
Thanx.
-
I used the same method Jason suggested to do the aluminium pulley for my lathe.
-
Its more the strian it puts on the user than the machine!! I wouldn't want to use it much over the 3/16 keyway width as it does take quite a bit of effort.
One way to lessen the effort and also help guide the tool is to make a plug for your gear out of a scrap bit of similar material and the drill down the joint between the two. This removes a lot of the metal and also gives helps keep the cutter in line.
Jason
-
...... One way to lessen the effort and also help guide the tool is to make a plug for your gear out of a scrap bit of similar material and the drill down the joint between the two. This removes a lot of the metal and also gives helps keep the cutter in line.
For keys which aren't subject to much torque - like where a setscrew would be enough, but there's nowhere on the wheel or whatever to put it - I've sometimes been lazy and just drilled down the join between wheel and shaft and used a bit of round bar to act as a key. Only works at the end of the shaft, of course; no good for half-way along it.
Andy
-
Hi All,
I need to cut some change gears in the near future and am investigating ways of cutting the slots. I've found Stew's excellent write up http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1859.0 (http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1859.0) on how to quickly make a keyway slotter which is more than adequate for my purposes.
However it got me thinking, and I want to throw the idea out there. How about using an old drill press as a quick and easy slotter? I've got a bench top drill press that's just sitting idle. I'm busy making pigtails for mops I bought the other day to turn it into a buffing station and on my project list is an adaptor to turn wooden handles on it also. It'll be great if it also can function as a simple slotter even if only to time me over until I have some quiet time to build a dedicated hand operated slotter.
Oh and I plan to make the gears out of either aluminum, brass or bronze. Soft material so that if I get the gears wrong, it does'nt damage the existing gear train of the lathe.
Regards.
Hi fluxcore
Here are som great plans. have a look. http://homepage3.nifty.com/amigos/index-e.html :beer:
Krankshafter
-
Has anyone here tried cutting a keyway with their shaper ?
I'm trying to decide if to make a tool for the shaper or the lathe. Shaper would be easier/simple and less arm ache in use. But would it have the same finesse? I guess it should do, but anyone tried it?
-
Darren
The shaper is ideal for this task. As shaping is a method of removing metal by a planing action.
The tool bit is ground like a tooth of a milling cutter. As so to act like a commercial broach system.
I have done it years ago, just one full slot with the opening at the end of the shaft. I never have reached in over the bar stock and made a slot like an end mill would make in the middle of the shaft. But I am sure its possible if we put our thinking cap on.
All the best. Anthony
-
Hi
The reason i built the slotter was that I strained my lathe cutting a slot winding the slide back and two, I knew i'd done something to it at the time back lash increased by a magnitude of four, limped along with it at that level, but I've just finished putting my lathe back together after sorting out the problem I'd cracked a casting, luckily it was able to machine a replacement up myelf, so be warned, make shure youre lathe is robust enough to do that sort of trick.
As for using a drill thats a great idea but you have to think of a way to lock the spindle.
Cheers
Stew
-
Oh dear Stew,
I have done it on a lathe slotting leaded brass, but I was not comfortable doing it as the strain was quite apparent.
It was also a slow process ...
I glad you manage to fix it Stew :thumbup:
-
Hi Darren
Here is the tool and tool holder i knocked up a good few years ago to use in my shaper , you may notice the cutter is back wards , this is correct way to slot with a shaper as you lock the clapper box so it dont move .
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1010619.JPG)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1010621.JPG)
Hi fluxcored , you can make a slotter for the lathe , by using the compound slide on the lathe , you need to remove the feed screw unit, 2 screws normally , so the compound slide is fee to move , make up a leaver and bracket to fit to were the screw fitted , and fix an anchour piont to the cross slide , then you can just mount the tool in the tool holder .
cheers Rob
-
Rob thank you for posting those pictures as I've just spent the last 1/2hr sorting stock to make a holder of a different design.
Having now seen yours I'll have to put all the bits back away :doh:
Ta mate, back off to the shed to see what I can find to copy those pics, looks great :clap:
-
Nice Rob. Makes me want a shaper. I'd love to get one of those bench top Atlas models.
If all else fails and nothing ever comes up anywere I think I might attempt to build the Dave Gingery shaper. I have the plans. I don't think I'd try to pour aluminum though like he did.
Here's a pic of it :
-
Rob, your workshop always looks devoid of clutter :scratch:
Where are all the bits and bobs :coffee:
-
Rob, your workshop always looks devoid of clutter :scratch:
Where are all the bits and bobs :coffee:
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: i WISH , at the moment it looks like someone has tipped the shop up at one end , i took the photos so no crap/mess would show :)
Hi Bernd , i would go for it , build the DG shaper , melting ally is not to hard to do , you dont need nothing to special
Cheers Rob ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Darren you went in to the shop hours ago , were is your slotting tool :dremel: :coffee:
-
It's coming, it's coming .....
Had a disaster with the mill ..... :doh:
The belt kept stretching, I kept adjusting, removing links..... and then again .... and then it snapped :doh:
It's a Brammer link belt and it's way to old to hold up.
All ok now, robbed one off the 2nd lathe to get it going again and back on the job :dremel:
-
Thank you all for the great replies. You've given me quite a few tips.
Regards.
-
Here's a rough one I made - before I got the shaper.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/laneranger/slotter2.jpg)
-
Tel, I like yours a lot. Thanks for the piccie.
-
I was just looking at an excellent post on making key slots...U-Tube
The guy simply drilled the base diameter with round bit and the hobbed the rest. It looks simple but then everything does until you try it.
hophar
-
Hi Fluxcored, I used my Logan lathe to "shape" a six slotted PTO dog clutch for my tractor some years ago, and took about a full day, and worked the lathe something hard, but it worked in heat treated machine steel, and it made the PTO work again. The picture you comment on right above this post is probably the best fast way to get it done right, with no load on the lathe, if you don't want to really do it right, and do the tooling to do it where it should be done, in the shaper designed for the job exactly. With the right tooling, it's a three minute job to put a keyway in a pulley with the shaper, and looking back, I could have spent half the time I did cutting the spline slots, making the tools for my shaper, and then spent twenty minutes getting the dog clutch machined, and still have the tooling to do the other fifteen similar jobs I've had to work around to get done, since then. Even the idea of using the top slide, with the screw removed and a lever added is a great idea I wish I'd seen before I went to work on that clutch dog. Mad Jack
-
Rob, your workshop always looks devoid of clutter :scratch:
Where are all the bits and bobs :coffee:
Umm, behind that bed sheet he keeps for photography? :scratch:
-
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: i will try harder to get more crap in the shots :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Here is a few shots of my lathe slotter ,
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P2220006.JPG)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P2220005.JPG)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_Tools.JPG)
This tool has come in very handly of late :D
Cheers Rob
-
That's one nice shiney bit of kit there Rob :headbang:
A quick question/statement (or two)...
I'm assuming that you have some form of indexer on the lathe spindle?
I'm also assuming that without going to all the effort to make an indexer for the lathe this could be done with a rotary table and the slotter unit on a mill table?
Cause I can make the unit easily enough, but all the time lathe converting/making indexing plates would crash this idea as "fun" for me! (distinct lack of free time at the mo'!)
Of course I'm not fully aware of the pressures involved, I can guess from the length of the lever, but having never tried it... It might move the RT if the cut is too deep?
Just a few thoughts going through my head :scratch:
Ralph.
-
Hi Ralph
You are correct , i use the bull wheel on the lathe to do basic indexing
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1010570.JPG)
(http://www.nam-engineering.com/cm/albums/userpics/10002/normal_P1010568.JPG)
I am planning on making an indexer that fits the bull wheel , witch uses index plates so i have a better range of divisions
The problem with using the slotter and R/T mounted to the mill ,is there is no way of putting a cut on , when mounted on the lathe cross slide ,you use the cross slide feed to put a cut on . and using the dials to get to the correct depth
What lathe do you have ?
You could make up a mandrel to fit the rear of the spindle , and use change wheels to do the indexing .
Cheers Rob
-
Ahh.... Forgot about the advancing :doh:
I've got a 9x20 chinese job, I get what your saying about the mandrel. Shouldn't be too hard now that you say it... I had much more complex things in mind!
No bull wheel to play with, well not like yours. I'll get it figured now, with your suggestion.... See, we all help each other see the wood (hope that translates ok! :lol: )
That handle must me 18" long!! I can see another back burner project :dremel:
Cheers,
Ralph.
-
That's one nice shiney bit of kit there Rob :headbang:
If memory serves correctly Rob posted a full build thread of this slotter on HMEM and it was a dam fine project :bow: ........... very nicely done Rob :thumbup:
CC
-
That's one nice shiney bit of kit there Rob :headbang:
If memory serves correctly Rob posted a full build thread of this slotter on HMEM and it was a dam fine project :bow: ........... very nicely done Rob :thumbup:
CC
Many Thanks CC :thumbup:, you are spot on mate , i did , but due to my legendrary computer skills i stuffed up and lost the photos :bang:,,,,,,,,,,,its a good thing i have a good friend backing my stuff up now and hosting my photos :D
Regards Rob
-
HI Ralph
translates ok! :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: sent PM :D
Regards Rob
-
I'm modelling mine after Tel's
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v332/laneranger/slotter2.jpg)
With a lot of inspiration from sbwhart - http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1859.0 (http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1859.0)
I really should take some pictures but am rather too ashamed.The going is very slow as well.
Thus far I have done ram guide and the ram. The ram guide I drilled to 13mm and then used my own boring tool to bore it out to 18.2mm. Why 18.2mm? Well I aimed for 18 but that's me, always over shooting the mark.
The finish in the bore was quite poor - and I just knew the bore diameter was'nt uniform when I was done. Reason because I bored from the one side, then turned it around and bored from the other side. I just had a bad feeling that all's not well.
The ram, I did'nt turn between centres - wish I saw Stew's post earlier. Turned 80% of one section, turned it around and turned the remainder.I could see with the naked eye where I stopped and started off again.
I had to laugh when I fitted it all together because of course the fit was going to be poor and the ram got stuck not even halfway into the bore.
So, the decision was either do it all over or try and salvage the situation.
Optimist that I am I blued the ram to see where the high points in the bore is and slowly grind that down with my trusty Dremel. This helped a lot but I did'nt want to mess up the bore too much so I left it for a couple of days weighing my options.
I decided lapping or polishing the bore or the ram might do the trick but did'nt had any money for lapping paste or emery cloth. So another week went by.
This weekend I did a lot of grindingwith my bench grinder outside.. When done, while cleaning up I saw the grinding dust all over the bench I thought of mixing the dust with grease and use that as lapping paste.
Well, that idea turned out great I must say. The ram and the guide has got a good sliding fit, not a lot of play as well.
Next I'm worried that I'm not going to be able to get the whole contraption exactly on centre. That's a problem I'll tackle when I get there.
Thanx all for the help. I'll post some photos when it start to look like a tool.
Cheers.
-
Well, here's some pics of my version. It's taken from my cell coz I broke the previous camera and my wife do'nt let me touch the new one.
Constructive criticism is more than welcome - I am struggling a bit.
I could have done better finishing the ram - I believe going over it with emery cloth would have improved the surface finish somewhat.
My welding is'nt up to scratch anymore. My eyesight is'nt what it used to be and I'm having trouble maintaining a steady hand.
In my defense the other beads do look better after I dialled in the welder a bit.
I also just tacked the ram guide because I was afraid that it would warp if I fully weld it.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_63qKdRT4IXI/THKYVkK0EpI/AAAAAAAAAnE/AG1U4HTgCqU/s512/IMG00050-20100823-1721.jpg)
Showing the spigot - hope I'm using the correct term - giving an idea of how it'll be fitted to the cross slide. Underside is also very rough.
I actually turned the spigot last year already for some other project which I can't remember. Was one of my first attempts at turning.
Also visible is the 2 grub screws in the ram for bolting down the tool holders. I had to cut and file the screws down considerably.
Oh and the tape is there to protect the spigot when I clamped it in the vice to file some of the welding spatter off.
(http://lh5.ggpht.com/_63qKdRT4IXI/THKYhrNkLEI/AAAAAAAAAmM/hWJLRweYQCs/s640/IMG00049-20100823-1720.jpg)
I've gained confidence boring and making my own boring tools and learned a lot through the mistakes that I made. I'm not very happy with my measuring skills and plan to invest in a digital caliper as soon as funds will allow. But I'm getting there slowly but surely.
Have'nt tried it yet. Will in the next week or two cut a keyway in a pulley - hope it works!!!
The slotter is sitting on the 20mm plate that I plan to use as a milling plate - it looks larger then it really is. I'll take some better pics of that to include in my other post. The edge towards the ArCO2 bottle is the one that I filed and sanded by hand - I hope to do better using an end mill cutter as suggested by some of the board members.
-
Looks OK to me but I'm a function over form guy. Make it work 1st, make it pretty 2nd.
What are you measuring with now? A vernier or dial caliper are just fine--a digital is easier to use. But if you want accuracy--especially for close fits--get a micrometer.
-
Looks good to me. Should work just fine. :dremel:
Waiting for more pics. :thumbup:
Bernd
-
I'm glad I found this thread as I was considering buying a set of broaches for around $400CAN. But then I would need a press which I don't currently have. Then I would have to learn to use them and be careful not to break them, and not to mention that the first thing i would have to do is create the correct size bushing for the keyways I need to make...what a nightmare, but I'm not paying a machine shop $50/keyway when I know damn well that they can bang those out in 10 minutes AND have the correct bushing and broach.
So anyways, I like the designs I've seen here. I decided to do up a set of plans before starting on mine.
Anyone care to have a look and give some suggestions?
I've designed it to clamp in the QCTP. I don't plan on making huge cuts, so I think it will be OK. What do you all think?
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9768641/KeywayCutter.pdf (http://dl.dropbox.com/u/9768641/KeywayCutter.pdf)
Sorry, don't mean to hijack this thread...
Paul
-
In another topic, I've already linked to this chap's website once today, but he does show the absolute bare minimum slotcutter if keyways are needed in a number of bores all of the same small size:
http://mikesworkshop.weebly.com/small-hole-slotting-tool.html
Andy
-
No problem, Paul.
Gents, you are too kind for words.
I use a vernier to measure. I think my problem is confidence - all the boring I've done so far showed me that I should start with heavy cuts and finer ones when I'm close to the diameter that I want. Normally I do a million fine cuts and measurements, get impatient and screw up. Reason I want a digital vernier is that it'll at least speed up measuring - I check 3 or 4 times my results which also adds up. Cannot afford one right now though.
What I'm happy about about is that I'm slowly improving and that's mainly due to being able to recognise my flaws and at least know how to deal with them. The help and archived info here helps tremendously for a guy like me, I must say.
I'm never going to be real good or be able to call myself a machinist but hey, where would the world be if people do'nt aspire for greater glory.
Regards
-
Paul,
Almost looks like the one written up in the August/Sept. issue of Machinist Workshop.
Fluxcored,
Your further ahead then some people that don't even know what a lathe or mill is. So, I think your just a newbie machinist because you know how to use both tools to make something you need. Just keep practicing.
I've been doing this ever I can remember and am still practicing. :beer:
Bernd
-
Not to derogate anyone's fine slotting technique, but lots of keyways have been cut with a hacksaw to do the roughing, and files to finish it out to fit the key. I just had to cut a keyway in a piece which didn't lend its self to holding easily, except it did fit well in a bench vise, so rather than make a bar and cutter for my shaper, I just cut the slot, and filed it to a good fit, and took less time than making the tool, and doing the job. I've used a wedge to lock the clapper on my shaper when cutting slots, but should do something a bit more solid and repeatable, like setting up a set screw on the upper end of the slotting tool bar, so the clapper is solidly locked. The keyway I just cut was in one of the gears in my quick change gearbox, and had a small bore, and narrow slot so would have meant a new bar and fitting a sliver of a cutter. The hacksaw and file only took about fifteen minutes overall. mad jack
-
Nothing wrong with your method of slot macking Madjack. As long as the out come is what you need. Matter of fact I've used a file many a times to clean up buggered up slots.
Bernd
-
It's also not an obvious solution.
I'd never thought of using a saw and file... :doh:
-
It's also not an obvious solution.
I'd never thought of using a saw and file... :doh:
Ya, it's a quick solution. I'd have to do that since I don't have a slotter. But for production or proffesional look a slotter would be better.
Bernd