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Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: raynerd on June 10, 2011, 10:49:58 AM

Title: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 10, 2011, 10:49:58 AM
Despite not having any pictures for this post, I think it is about time I make an intro to my next project as it is spilling into other threads. I`ve now got the Stuart 10V running very nicely and I`ve recently got the Webster IC Engine running to a seemingly acceptable level (I`m chuffed with it running!!), I`d like to move onto my next project - which actually is the first project I ever started!

Back in 2003/04 the professor and my tutor at Uni was mad into Patek Philippe watches. He clearly must have been on a great wage packet as their cheapest design, the Calatrava starts at many thousands of pounds. He had a couple of calatrava’s as well as a few grand complications!  :drool:  Hoping to one day be on those dizzy heights (don`t worry, those thoughts have now permanently been crushed!) I had a bit of interest. Because Patek make hand made watches they after show images of their production shops and this brought out my hidden engineering interests. Knowing I couldn`t buy a Patek, I purchased some old pocket watches off ebay to take apart (Smiths for those interested). I later found out it must have been total luck, but I managed to fix one and suddenly thought I was a clock maker. I decided to buy a Unimat 3 lathe off ebay that I somehow won at a fantastic price (I made a few hundred pounds on it when I sold it!). I made a few posts on the NAWCC (National Association of Watch and Clock Collectors) forum and a kind chap over in Yorkshire invited me around to see his Unimat 3 mods and how he was setting up for wheel cutting ect.  In his home I noticed an ME article showing John Wilding who had just finished writing his plans for Dr Woodward's Gearless Clock and was posting them in Model Engineer mag.  Being a fool, I ordered all the materials, purchased the copy of ME (which was actually his second post, I`d missed the first episode). I asked my dad for some help and one Saturday morning we drilled 3 mounting holes for the brass back plate and failed when it came to soft soldering 3 washers on the back!!! I realised very quickly that I didn`t have the skills to make a clock and the materials and lathe were sold.

So now in 2011, with a couple of years experience behind me, I`m going to give this another bash! I recently ordered all the brass plate and received this a couple of weeks ago and I`m just waiting on the remaining materials, mainly imperial bar stock to arrive from College Engineering Supplies. I`ve also taken delivery of a length of nylon cord and some 0.006” spring steel. Last week while on holiday, I appreciatively took delivery of some 1/8” ID bearings from Clive off Madmodder! The only material which I managed to miss off my orders was a 12” length of 2” dia steel. I took my Grandma her birthday card on Wednesday evening and asked her if I had left any materials at her house from the clock (they had been storing it before I sold it). She called me up because the piece she had was too heavy – the only thing for some bizarre reason I did not sell was the 2” dia, 12” length of steel – freaky hey?!!

This is the clock:

(http://www.clockmaking-brass.co.uk/gearless-clock.jpg)

Dr Woodward originally wrote about the design in his book – My Own Right Time. Sadly I just not prepared to pay £40-50 for a copy of ANY book which seems to be what this one dictates. I have of course purchased John Wildings lovely write up of the plans and build process. He mainly cuts the clock using a Unimat, I`ll be following his methods unless I can utilize my small mill to better effect which he doesn`t use.
I should state right away that this build log has be written already by the notorious GadgetBuilder who details fantastically his build of this clock. He has made some excellent modifications of Wiliding’s design, especially the automatic maintaining works. Unfortunately I`m not confident, intelligent or daring enough to deviate from the plans other than a couple of fasteners where I`ll be using metric instead of the specific BA series.  
http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/GearlessClock/Gearless_Clock.html

The clock uses a really unique method to run. A series of colliding pawls, hooks and rods give the pendulum an impulse, with the energy provided by the large weight.

Until I have pics to explain in more detail, the best way I can explain is:
There are two main aspects, the running train and the daisy motion. I`m going to start back-to-front and talk about the daisy motion first. Basically the “clock” mechanism rotates a main arbor once each hour – the minute hand is connected to this. The daisy motion is used to convert that 360 degree hour spin, into a 1/12 of a turn for the hour hand. Here is a youtube video made by gadget builder:



This is a really neat and novel idea allowing you to generate your hour movement from the minute movement – remember, without gears!! The smart thing is, a taper pin is removed and the entire daisy motion mechanics can be removed! This is why I mentioned this first, that just leaves us with the rest of the motion works.

Probably best to look at gadget builders explanation but here goes:
This clock only receives an impulse to the pendulum once every 60 seconds! This means everything involved with the count wheel must be very low on friction. Look at the pendulum and you will find two brackets. The upper one catches a tooth on the count wheel (the top wheel that looks like an escape wheel, NOT the pin wheel) and the pendulum is of such a length that in 60 seconds the count wheel goes around once. I`m wondering if a minute hand could be attached to the countwheel??
You probably can`t see in the photo, but one tooth on the count wheel is slightly deeper than the rest. When the pawl on the pendulum drops into this tooth, it pulls a lever down at the rear of the wheel. This lever has two section a bit like this “ > “ so as the top lever is pulled down anticlockwise, the bottom lever also moves down. This bottom section pushes down on the bottom “impulse pawl” of the pendulum (the pawl connected to the bottom bracket of the pendulum rod). This actually pulls the count wheel (the pin wheel) anti-clockwise for a second but at this point the weight which is wrapped around the count wheel to pull it clockwise, pulls the wheel back clock wise again. Now however, the levers are not bearing down on the impulse pawl (the count wheel pawl is back in a normal small tooth) and it is free to lift up out of the pin it is holding (the pin wheel also moves through a gate and moves forward by one pin, i.e one minute!!!!)  but now the pendulum is at a higher position again – i.e the pendulum has been given an impulse! The pin wheel moves on by one pin every minute and therefore with 60 pins, the pin wheel does one revolution every hour – the minute hand!
Add the daisy motion to this and you have your minute and hours!

I`m not going to rush this but to be honest, with no gears the parts don`t look overly complex so I expect to make good progress. I expect like I have experienced with my Webster IC, most of the time will be in the troubleshooting, getting it to run!
Pictures will hopefully be following!

Chris

    


 
 
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Rob.Wilson on June 10, 2011, 12:08:26 PM
Hi Chris


Good read mate ,,,,,,,,,,,,, look forward to seeing you make this clock  :med: ,,,,,,,,,,,, interesting project  :dremel:



Rob
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 12, 2011, 02:20:16 AM
Thanks for your reply Rob. Probably a bit boring story but just thought I`d tell my little tail of why I`m building this engine.  

It is also worth adding that I know I started Colin Thornes Skeleton clock some time ago but I also started that too early and lacked skills and patience and I now realise that most of it needs remaking. I`d rather get a bit more experience before I restart that again and this gearless gets away from cutting any more pesky gears - although feel confident with gears when I next need to cut some (those on my Webster engine work a treat!)

OK, here are some photos for you. Most materials and then the first few pics of swarf.

This is the brass sheet required for the construction along with Wildings build book, some spring steel and the nylon chord.

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearless10.jpg)



Just some proof of the validity of my story about the 2" dia steel bar coming from my original purchase of these materials. I don`t know why I never sold this piece and equally don`t know why I didn`t order this piece when I re-ordered the materials last week. Freaky.... notice the news paper it is wrapped in - 2004!

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearless11.jpg)


Here is the paxalon rod and the Invar. I think I was talking rubish in a post made here : http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=4987.0   I don`t think the paxalon is for the pendulum rod   ooops sorry!  :palm:  I`ll be using my Invar now I`ve got it anyway.

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearless12.jpg)


The rest of the materials - lots of imperial bar stock is on order still from College Engineering Supplies. It has been a week now but I`m guessing the order is quite fiddly with lots of different sizes in small quantities. Hopefully it`ll arrive this coming week.

So I made a start. The first job is to simply prepare the back plate which was £22 of brass! The plate is 9" x 6" but the material is 13-14" x 6.1" as the excess is used for something else. First job was to cut off the excess. I prefer to spend time setting it up on my mill and cut it that way as it leaves a good finish and I prefer it to sawing., besides my saw wouldn`t cut all the way so I`d need to meet from either side which would be doomed to failure. This worked really well using the brass square section to clamp it onto a pair of parallels.

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearless13.jpg)


I filed the edges square which took a while but worked really well, nice and square. The file is slowly becoming my friend!

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearless14.jpg)


The next job was to drill three 5/32" mounting screw holes, 2 at the bottom and 1 at the top and then soft solder some 1/16" thich washers to the back of the plate to lift it away from the mounting board when screwed down. I didn`t have any 1/16" washers and although it isn`t critical, I decided to make some. Here it is soft soldered and quickly tidied up. Needs a little more work to remove a little excess solder but has turned out well so far.

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearless15.jpg)


Next job is to make the pendulum mounting bracket.


Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Stilldrillin on June 12, 2011, 04:30:30 AM
Chris.
I don't understand clocks, and such.......  ::)

But, this looks a cute little (?) project!  :D

Good  luck with it!  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: spuddevans on June 12, 2011, 04:35:46 AM
I'm watching this with great interest, I hope to build a clock as my next project.

Tim
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 12, 2011, 05:34:10 AM
David, in my opinion this very much is a engineers clock - no gears and lots of colliding leavers!

Tim - that excites me a lot, I like your work, your photos and your build logs, so that will be interesting. Despite getting no-where in the build, I still think Collin Thornes Skeleton Timepiece is a lovely clock however it is just plans and no build journal and guidance as Wildings clocks all have. That being said, his book that I reviewed a while ago on here, I forget its name, I think Clock Making for the Model Engineer is excellent and complements the plans. Now you have mentioned it, I`ll be  :poke: :poke: you until it is started....certainly after your V engine is finished!

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Rob.Wilson on June 12, 2011, 05:41:04 AM
Probably a bit boring story but just thought I`d tell my little tail of why I`m building this engine.  

Not at all Chris  :med: :thumbup:

Do the weights get plated ? 

Rob
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 12, 2011, 07:56:57 AM
I`ve read the plans and build notes through a few times and I`m pretty sure I`ve not read that they do. I`d be interested to know what makes you say that ?

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DaveH on June 12, 2011, 08:02:37 AM
Chris,

I quite like this, no gears my type of clock. :D

Haven't a clue how it all works :scratch:  but as the build proceeds I'm sure I will be enlightened  :D

I could do with being a bit lighter :D

 :beer:

DaveH
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 12, 2011, 10:37:15 AM
Dave, it took me hours of reading the same 2 pages of the book and then even a video that gadgetbuilder kindly posted for me on request that I managed to figure it out.

I hope to take lots of pictures in this build. I don`t know if you noticed but in my last few builds I`ve been a bit reluctant to post pictures of my actual machining as was worried about what people think of my methods. I feel more confident now and to be honest, I`ve spoke to so so many older engineers who do things totally different to how everyone says that I`m quite happy showing my methods as long as I`m safe. If people can give me better ways of doing things then great and I will take it on board, but by that time the part will be made anyway....

The point is, hopefully I`ll slowly build the main train on the back plate and you should see how it works. One of my aims is to try and explain the mechanism as it is put together.

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DaveH on June 12, 2011, 01:02:02 PM
Chris,

Thanks, I will look forward to it. :D

There are always many many right ways of doing something, if the job comes out right, then you did it the right way. :D

Think safe - you will be fine :D

 :beer:

DaveH
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Rob.Wilson on June 12, 2011, 04:18:24 PM
I`ve read the plans and build notes through a few times and I`m pretty sure I`ve not read that they do. I`d be interested to know what makes you say that ?

Chris

Hi Chris ,,,,,,,,,,,,,, its just they look very shiny in the photo ,,,,,,,,,,,,  :)



Rob 
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 12, 2011, 06:47:53 PM
I did notice that, just presumed it was elbow grease!


Got a little more done this past hour or so as I couldn`t sleep. With the back plate now ready to hold some new parts, the first one is the pendulum bracket. I cut a couple of pieces of 1/8" brass sheet and used double sided tape to secure them together. Machined them square and started profiling them

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearless20.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearless21.jpg)

Still together I drilled the support holes and filed the top suspension "V", finally separating them:

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearless22.jpg)

I then machined up the centre piece and now I`m left here:

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearless23.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearless24.jpg)


Wilding now says to clamp these side piece together to the centre piece to drill through and tap so they can be secured. It is late and I`m tired, but I had to stop here because I couldn`t get my head around a method to do this. I only have large clamps over 1" and so any clamp would cover the holes. I could really do with a narrow clamp large enough to go around the whole unit but narrow enough to fits between both holes so they can be done in one sitting. Damn - I hate it when I don`t have the required tooling. I normally always get away with things, they either fit in my small 1" clamp or I can get them with my larger clamps...... hummm...can`t think of any other way of holding it all together and square!

Until tomorrow.....

Chris




Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Bernd on June 12, 2011, 07:45:18 PM
Chris,

Don't know what you'd call them over there, but have you got a pair of visegripes? (locking pliers). They may have a narrow enough jaw on them to go between the holes.

Bernd
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: 75Plus on June 12, 2011, 08:49:42 PM
Since the holes in the plates were drilled while they were stuck together the holes should be in identical locations. If this is the case the then with the center piece secured in the mill vise one plate can be used as a guide to drill thru it. This would solve the clamping problem.

Joe
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 13, 2011, 02:10:26 AM
Thanks for the suggestions. 75 Plus, although they are identical, I just wanted them in position so I know they were all square. The important thing is that the V grooves line up 1 1/4" from the plate. I may be well use some visegrips or at least see how they "feel". Otherwise I`m going to have to simply use them as a template in turn.

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Anzaniste on June 13, 2011, 02:28:04 AM
If you go for the vice grips I suggest you use soft packings to avoid marking your lovely shiny brass bits.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 13, 2011, 04:02:15 AM
Thanks Anzaniste ... I`ve been having to use some small brass strips that I`ve cut and rounded the edges of to hold all my brass sections so far. The brass had backing plastic on it but it was uneven and you just couldn`t mark out with it on so that has been removed leaving the brass exposed. The little brass packings have been working well so far and I found that the brass is very soft cutting so obviously the vice has to be tight but not tightened to death!!

I`ll let you know how I get on.

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: NickG on June 13, 2011, 07:45:42 AM
Nice 1 Chris, you're on a roll!

I'll be watching this one too then!

Nick
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: kvom on June 13, 2011, 08:10:33 AM
You might try some loctite to secure the pieces temporarily while drilling.  Then some heat to release.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 13, 2011, 06:40:53 PM
Hi Chaps, sorry Kvom, only just read your reply. Yes, I`ve never used locitite as a temporary clamp, however have started using double sided tape for large flat parts as recommended on here and that works well.

I couldn`t use the grips they would`t go wide enough and wouldn`t clamp is square. Some how seemed to pull it up at the back. I decided to run around to my mates to borrow one and was in luck:

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearless30.JPG)


I then aligned it square:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearless31.JPG)


(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearless32.JPG)



And now it sits nice and square in the top corner - the first part mounted on the backing plate!


(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearless33.JPG)

Next onto the pendulum suspension....

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Bernd on June 14, 2011, 09:44:26 AM
Kris,

I think your next porject after finishing this clock would be a few sets of those "machinist clamps".  :dremel:  :beer:

Bernd
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DaveH on June 14, 2011, 10:03:29 AM
Chris,

That's to way to do it! :D

Good start.

 :beer:

DaveH
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 14, 2011, 06:41:51 PM
I think you are right Eric!  :doh:

I managed to make the lower pendulum clamping bracket this evening which was a really nice combination of milling and turning. The part will hang off the bracket I made earlier with the pendulum rod screwed into the bottom.

I started with a rough cut 1. 1/2" length of .5" square brass and milled a 1/4" slot at the end.

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodward1.JPG)

I then rought cut a 1/4" piece of guage plate, milled one side flat, butted it upto the edge of the groove I`d just cut, clamped together and bolted it through:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodward2.JPG)

Tidied each side up in turn, stopping just short of the brass width:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodward3.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodward4.JPG)

I then transfered the  work to the 4 jaw and centred it. I drilled the end 2.BA for the pendulum rod and turned down the square to round (I think this is just for looks)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodward5.JPG)

Finally finished with a countersink on the clamping steel and used a nice 4BA screw. Here is the part finished:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodward6.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodward7.JPG)

The spring still is clamped between the brass and steel sections. The other end connects to the pendulum rod. Tomorrow I`ll try and get some done on the spring steel and top clamp...
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: doubleboost on June 14, 2011, 06:51:58 PM
Looking good Chris
You often find toolmakers clamps on EBAY very handy bits of kit (easy to make as well)
John
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 15, 2011, 04:46:38 AM
Hi John
Yes, I`ve just taken a look on ebay and there are quite a selection for sale, including some auctions for a lot of say 3 or 4 different size clamps. I do have a couple, a very small one and then some really big ones, nothing inbetween.

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 15, 2011, 10:12:33 PM
I was reading about cutting the spring steel this morning and apparently you punch it out. So as soon as I got home this eveing I had a go. As per Wildings instructions, I folded over a strip of brass, marked out on both the template and the spring steel:

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards8.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards9.JPG)

I made this punch but stupidly have rounded the edges so I`ve not ended up with a good clean cut. It worked really well and I did get a disk, but it has pressed the edge a little.

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards10.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards11.JPG)

I then went on to make the top clamping bracket:

The whole lot suspends from the bracket I made in my last post. The plans call for 2BA studing but I just cut down a long bolt, turned down the ends and rounded them:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards13.JPG)

Cutting off two 7/8" brass disks 1/16" in thickness. I then went on to mill a flat on the top and tap one 10BA and the other drilled clearence
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards12.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards14.JPG)

Both John Wilding and GadgetBuilder stress the importance of the spring steel being square to the brackets. Wilding suggests this method to lock it all down square:

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards15.JPG)

And the final setup:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards16.JPG)

and now fitted with the invar pendulum rod.
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards17.JPG)

Pendulum next....
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: sbwhart on June 16, 2011, 01:56:54 AM
Good progress Chris keep the posts comming watching with interest.

Stew
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 16, 2011, 05:51:09 AM
Cheers Stew, the spring steel was tricky to work with and I`m not totally happy but to be honest, I pretty sure it is just asthetics as the bits that are a bit "iffy" in terms of the holes where the screws go through, are clamped. I might try and make another but it looks like it`ll do the job. It acts as a nice pendulum with just the rod attached so when I get the 4" x 2" steel bar on it, it should be good.

Thanks for watching and posting.  I`m currently multitasking and have "the other Colin Thorne project undergo as well!!"  :ddb:

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 17, 2011, 07:03:50 PM
Didn`t do any last night,... I bloody fell asleep.....fancy that!!! Grrrr

Got the pendulum up and, well, swinging tonight!

Hacked off a 4" (just over) length of 2" dia silver steel:

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards18.JPG)

Drilled it through 6.5 mm to make an oversize hole for the pendulum rod
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards19.JPG)

I re-drilled the top 8mm to a depth of 10mm and then I turned up some bushes out of brass for the ends with a 6mm bore to accept the pendulum rod
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards20.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards22.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards21.JPG)

The hole pendulum unit was assembled:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards23.JPG)

And then a picture for those of you that don`t know what a pendulum swinging looks like  :lol:  Hey, I had to include it!! Photo is rubish but here you go.. in action:

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards24.JPG)


(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/woodwards25.JPG)


I`m going to need a quick stand so I can easily remove the brass back plate from the wall and then place it back on to test. I don`t know if there is any way of doing this without the faff of unscrewing it each time.

So a bit of time tidying out my workshop tomorrow and then I`ll make a start on the count wheel. Then I`ll move back to the pendulum pawl brackets and then hopefully I should be able to get a minute timed out by the pendulum dragging the count wheel forward....obviously at that stage the clock will stop after a few mins because it`ll get no impulse but I`ll be able to check the general mechanism is working!

Chris





Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: doubleboost on June 17, 2011, 08:46:46 PM
2 Inch silver steel  :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye:
You dont hack silver steel it is lovingly sliced  :) :) :D :D
Mind it is looking great  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
John
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 18, 2011, 02:44:52 AM
haha  :lol:  ... sorry, hack was the wrong word  :ddb:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: 75Plus on June 18, 2011, 01:47:39 PM
I KNEW that asymmetrical pendulum reminded me of something. Finally remembered the name and here it is.

(http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm206/tomkwi/tomkwi2/Bv-141.jpg)



Joe

Here is a suggestion to make it easier to switch back and forth between test stand an wall mounts. Make 2, mount one on the wall and the other on your test stand. You may need to make mounting studs for the clock back plate. This basic mounting idea can be found in many of the old clocks.

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 18, 2011, 02:11:49 PM
In what way do you mean my pendulum is asymmetrical?  :(

EDIT:  Ohh yea, you mean the pendulum is not symetrical in terms of being in the centre of the clock?
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 21, 2011, 05:23:18 PM
Failed miserably cutting the count wheel tonight   :-(
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: doubleboost on June 21, 2011, 05:33:03 PM
If it was easy everyone would be doing it  :thumbup: :thumbup:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: spuddevans on June 21, 2011, 05:35:00 PM
Sorry to hear that Chris :bang:


Failed miserably .......

Surely the only way to fail and learn, if every time we failed we were happy then we would have little incentive to improve.

Keep at it, you'll get there in the end :thumbup:

Tim
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 21, 2011, 05:46:59 PM
Very true both of you!

I will have to start again tomorrow. Sadly it was about 2-3 hours of work down the drain, mind you that was going at my snail pace!



 
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Rob.Wilson on June 21, 2011, 05:51:18 PM
Only two hours work Chris ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, i have screwed up parts that had two days work in them  :doh:  :bang: :bang:

Anyway whats a count wheel ?

Rob

Tomorrows another day  :dremel:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Stilldrillin on June 22, 2011, 03:16:24 AM
Very true both of you!

I will have to start again tomorrow. Sadly it was about 2-3 hours of work down the drain, mind you that was going at my snail pace! 


It's tomorrow now Chris!   :wave:

You've had some practice....... Work a little faster today....... Then you'll not have wasted so much, if you have the same result!  :D

Good luck!  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 22, 2011, 03:59:51 AM
Yep, I`ll have another go this evening after work. I know the reasonS why I went wrong so I`ll give it another bash. It was my stupidity. I spent most of the time setting up the cutter height which has been the issue in past wheel cutting attempts, that was good this time so I am learning.


Rob - in simple terms, the count wheel uses the swings of the pendulum to "count" the divisions of one complete 360 rotation in one minute. It is basically a ratchet wheel with 48 teeth. The pendulum does exactly 48 complete swings in one minute. The pendulum has a metal wire (pawl) attached to it and as the pendulum swings it gathers a new tooth each count. If you attached a "hand" to the count wheel, it would actually be a seconds hand rotating once in 60 seconds. However, it would look very odd on this clock, it would rotate 360 deg ever minute but would actually do 48 jumps/divisions rather than 60 jumps/divisions, i.e 60 seconds!!  On this clock the seconds hand would actually go backwards as well as the pendulum count pawl pulls the seconds hand anticlockwise!

The nice thing about this clock is that I should be able to keep testing it at each stage. Once the count wheel and arbor is done, I can then test that it is "counting" the seconds...although it`ll soon run out of juice as the pendulum will be getting an inpulse. That being said, it should accurately time 1 minute, ideally a bit longer since the design of this clock only gives the pendulum an inpulse each minute.

Chris 
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 29, 2011, 02:14:21 AM
I`ve spent a little while finishing this count wheel but managed it last night! The count wheel has these ratchet like teeth so that as the pendulum swings, the gathering pawl/wire slides up one of the slopes and drops behind a notch pulling the count wheel around one place.


I started with two rough cut pieces of 18g CZ120:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countwheel.JPG)

Made an arbor and chucked them both up:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countwheel4.JPG)

Turned them down to 1.5" diameter:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countwheel5.JPG)

I then made my profiling tool to cut the teeth, a 60 deg cutting tool but I needed a flat parallel to the mill bed when mounted:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countwheel1.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countwheel3.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countwheel6.JPG)

I then unscrewed the chuck and mounted it on my rotary table on the mill. It managed to get out of true when I did this in my previous efforts so I set up a DTI just to check it was running OK - which it was this time! I must have knocked it last time, but my arbor was also longer in my other efforts which may not have held as well. Also, it sounds stupid, but I think there was some vibration last time and the chuck wasn`t tight on the rotary table that is why it didn`t cut properly.
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countwheel2.JPG)

I then centred the wheel - made sure by making a whitness mark, moving to the other side and checking it was at the same height - you can just make this out on the photo
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countwheel7.JPG)

I started cutting the teeth!!
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countwheel8.JPG)

Wheel teeth cutting complete and worked just fine!!  :ddb:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countwheel9.JPG)

I was then in two minds - remember I cut two teeth at once since it is 18g brass, the two together provided support for one another. I didn`t want to cross them out together as I risked spoiling them both if I failed. So I opted to remove one (as shown above) and remount the other on the chuck arbor and mount it under the rotary table. My dad then helped me with some nice maths so I could calculate how many degrees I needed to rotate the rotab and then lift the cutter for so many degrees and then back down etc to cross the wheel out

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countwheel10.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countwheel11.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countwheel12.JPG)


Then it was time to file it all square. I appreciate I could have got much more accuracy using the rotary table for all the crossing out but I decided to saw the little pieces out and file to size as described in the plans. This is the setup I`ve seen people use -  a long wooden board, a groove cut and you sit on the board with the work nicely on platform infront of you ...worked very well

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countwheel13.JPG)

And after 20 minutes of rough filing I`ve got it coming to shape.

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countwheel14.JPG)

OK OK - it needs a lot more filing to make it look neat and quite a bit more work on burnishing the teeth but I`m nearly there.... :ddb:







Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Stilldrillin on June 29, 2011, 03:49:42 AM
That looks great Chris!  :bugeye:

Blummin well done!  :clap: :clap: :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: saw on June 29, 2011, 04:35:51 AM
Good work  :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: NickG on June 29, 2011, 05:42:01 AM
Well done, looks great  :clap:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DaveH on June 29, 2011, 05:47:05 AM
Chris,

Looks great, the way to go. :thumbup:

Well done :clap:

 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: modeldozer on June 29, 2011, 05:57:41 AM
Chirs,

Well done  :clap:

Cheers  :beer:

Abraham
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: spuddevans on June 29, 2011, 07:10:00 AM
Making good progress there Chris :thumbup: :thumbup: Keep up the good work.


Tim
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: doubleboost on June 29, 2011, 07:12:52 AM
Very nice  :thumbup: :thumbup:
John
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: kvom on June 29, 2011, 08:20:26 AM
WRT to punching spring steel: for my locomotive spring leafs I used a carbide endmill to make nice, clean, round holes in blue spring steel.  Much easier than punching.

I'm following this project with great interest.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 29, 2011, 08:57:49 AM
Thank you everyone for your interest and comments! I`ll tidy the wheel up tonight and then hopefully make the back stop pawl and supporting bracket. The wheel will then get mounted on the backplate and once the gathering pawl is made, I`ll be able to test it for counting out a minute.

Thanks again... :beer:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 29, 2011, 05:40:07 PM
Cut the deeper tooth and made the mounting arbour this evening. Tapping the 12BA was a little hairy and I just managed to get the distance right so that the screw heads didn`t foul the wheel mounting post    :ddb:   Still needs more sanding and burnishing the top of the wheel but I think I`ll do that in a few evenings.

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countingwheel1.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/countingwheel2.JPG)

I must admit, I`m pretty please with it!!  :ddb:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: srm_92000 on June 29, 2011, 06:46:12 PM
So you should be Chris - nice work  :thumbup:

When you cut the teeth did you do it in one pass or feed in a little on the y then take the several cuts using the x axis?

Just curious.

Steve.
 :beer:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 29, 2011, 07:01:15 PM
 Steve, as instructed in the vast majority of literature that I have read, including John Wildings build notes and also Colin Throne's Clock making for the model engineer, I take the entire cut in one pass, nice a slowly. With this CZ120 engravers brass, with a nice sharp tool it is a little noisey (I think my machine could do with running a bit faster but I`m at top speed), the cut is very neat.

Thanks for your comment and your interest.

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: srm_92000 on June 29, 2011, 07:35:47 PM
Cheers Chris,

Going to have to be doing my Webster gears soon so planning ahead, though I'll probably half cheat and buy the cutters. ::)
We need a crossed fingers smiley  :scratch:.
 :proj:

Steve.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: BiggerHammer on June 29, 2011, 07:39:27 PM
Looking very nice. That gear looks outstanding.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 30, 2011, 03:10:37 AM
Steve, buying the cutters will save a lot of time but I cut my webster gears using my own gear cutter - I just more or less followed John Stevensons excellent gear cutting instructions and did some calculations:
http://www.raynerd.co.uk/?p=1069

Cheers Biggerhammer -yes I`m pleased with it. I must admit the crossing out isn`t crisp and tidy, or to clockmakers perfection - I don`t know how they get it like that!! Mine still looks a little like a beaver chewed the centre out  :borg:

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Anzaniste on June 30, 2011, 03:11:30 AM
All very encouraging. I liked the sitting on the board idea but did it make your back ache?
Great effort Chris, well done :thumbup:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on June 30, 2011, 04:47:55 AM
Back ache?? -I sometimes get it after a few games of football, a round of golf and then carrying my daughter around town while shopping...but I was OK filing a clock wheel  :lol:   Only joking, Anzanise, I do understand it may potentially give some people back ache but I was fine. Thanks for posting.

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: kwackers on June 30, 2011, 05:35:39 AM
I must admit the crossing out isn`t crisp and tidy, or to clockmakers perfection - I don`t know how they get it like that!! Mine still looks a little like a beaver chewed the centre out  :borg:

Small files and a bit of patience...

Take your time and draw file the crossings with a good set of sharp jewellers files. For finishing a bit of dowel with metal polish - should only need a few wipes to prevent the corners rounding.

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 10, 2011, 04:16:45 AM
I started working on the clock again this week, didn`t get very far but here is an update on the bridge plate and pillars:

Marked out the plate:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pillars1.jpg)

And roughed to shape with a file:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pillars2.jpg)

I then went a made a depth stop for my lathe as described by John in his "backstop" thread
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pillars3.jpg)


(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pillars4.jpg)

With the backstop, it was easy to get two the same length solving all previous issues when I`ve tried this!
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pillars5.jpg)

I then drilled a tommy bar hole in the end to ensure we can tighten these onto the back plate:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pillars6.jpg)

The bottom end of the pillar is threaded M3 but I had concerns that I couldn`t thread it all the way using a die, I always end up with an untreaded stub so consequently it won`t screw down to the shoulder. I normally just nick this with a parting tool but with only 1/8" of thread, I wanted as much thread as possible. So instead of threading, I drilled and tapped and using loctite, glued in two M3 screws, letting the glue dry and then cutting the thread to size:

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pillars7.jpg)

As suggested in the plans, to profile the pillar I screwed it into a piece of scrap barstock threaded in the lathe and could then work on the entire length.

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pillars8.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pillars9.jpg)

And the two finished:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pillars10.jpg)

And the pillars and bridge mounted on the backplate:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pillars11.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pillars12.jpg)


Next thing is to drill the pivot holes and so it is suggested I remove the pillars and drill through the bridge and packplate together to ensure they are aligned!
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pillars13.jpg)
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: kvom on July 10, 2011, 11:02:35 AM
Is there a reason you couldn't just tap the pillars and screw in from the back?  Or drill and ream the plate and loctite the pillar to it?
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 10, 2011, 11:11:25 AM
Is there a reason you couldn't just tap the pillars and screw in from the back?  Or drill and ream the plate and loctite the pillar to it?

I expect not but the plans showed that they should be threaded and screwed into the plate so like a blind dog I just followed. I wouldn`t have liked to loctited them in place but certainly screwing in from the back would have been easier....I presume there must be a reason as other parts have been held to the back plate like this.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 11, 2011, 05:49:51 AM
 :drool: Starting to look like a clock now. I cut my pivots, burnished them and polished the pivot holes in the frame. Made a nice little pivot holder and split collet and all worked very well. Nice bit of endshake, perhaps a fraction too much but for this clock will work ok. Just came on here to post pictures of the  :update:, showing off my results to find that I didn`t have a SD card in this stupid new camera  :doh: For some reason it does`t bother telling you there is no SD card present and proceeds to appear like everything is taking like normal  :palm: 

Anyway, I have a wheel mounted and free turning :D
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: NickG on July 11, 2011, 06:03:48 AM
Nice work Chris. I used to turn little spigots on the bottom of stuff but then saw some of Jan Ridders engines just tapped and a screw through so started doing that, it's easier!

our camera does that too - there is a certain amount of internal memory but means you need to connect the usb cable to get them off! As you say, doesn't tell you though!  :doh:
 
Nick
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 12, 2011, 04:10:31 PM
I managed to get some snaps and make a little more progress :ddb:, although a step back at the same time  :palm:


Here is the wheel mounted on the clock:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/stage11.jpg)

I then started the count wheel arbor:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/stage12.jpg)

I didn`t get any photos of burnishing the pivots on the wheel, so here is my simple setup I used. This was actually on the count wheel pawl pivots
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/stage13.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/stage14.jpg)

Here is the count pawl and pivot
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/stage15.jpg)

...and then with the bracket, please bear in mind it all needs polishing. Notce that the side frames are also pinned to keep the pivot holes aligned.
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/stage16.jpg)

.....it all mounted   :ddb: :ddb:  It worked so well! I obviously had to hold a back stop but the pendulum "counted" the wheel teeth!!
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/stage17.jpg)

I did say some bad news  :bang: that being that my deep tooth is too deep and the angle of the tooth too steep so that the pawl gets stuck when it drops into it. I`m a bit dissapointed but things look like they are going to work OK !
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: andyf on July 12, 2011, 04:29:53 PM
Hi Chris,

It certainly looks like clockwork. Shame about the one deep gap between two teeth. Could you attach a tiny "roof" to the pawl, which would drop into contact with the crest of the adjacent tooth before the pawl goes too far down the offending gap?

Andy
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 12, 2011, 05:23:21 PM
Hi Andy, just to be clear but I think you do understand, one of the gaps is intentially deeper than the rest. This is to allow the pawl to drop down further once a revolution and engage a "lever" which kicks into motion the impulse module. I don`t know if there is much I can do. I can try and reduce the slope but this will reduce the tooth depth on the other side. I think however, this may be OK as the backstop will still catch it. I could try something as you have suggested, but with 1/32" wire, I expect this will be harder than building a new wheel. I don`t know, something to think about.  :bang:

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 12, 2011, 05:36:37 PM
 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:  :bugeye: nice going Chris  :thumbup:  looks like a clock to me  :med:


So thats what the widget you had in the drill chuck is used for  :dremel:


Rob
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 12, 2011, 06:20:37 PM
Yea, its a poor mans Jocots tool!!  :lol:  It worked just fine and allows you to really push down hard on the little 1mm dia pivot for burnishing without snapping. The brass split collet also made life easier for cutting down the little pivot.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: BiggerHammer on July 12, 2011, 07:55:19 PM
I would suggest putting a dab of silver solder in the "special" gap. Then you could re-machine it to the desired depth. Though I must admit I do not know if brazing on something that delicate would be possible without distorting the part. (I still think it looks smashing though.) 
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: sbwhart on July 13, 2011, 03:18:52 AM
Looking a proper Job
 
:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

I wouldn't do anything with that escape wheel until you've got some more bits done, you never know it may be ok with more parts arround it.

 :clap: :clap: :clap:

Stew

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 13, 2011, 04:55:29 PM
Well taking your advice Stew, I carried on making the back stop tonight and it didn`t bind as much as I thought, infact the pawl did get up a couple of times. Maybe I can rescue it!

This video is well out of focus as I had to resurrect my semi-dead camera to take it, but it looks nice to me :D

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 13, 2011, 05:15:32 PM
 :D   :clap: :clap: :clap:  nice one Chris  :thumbup:

Rob
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Stilldrillin on July 14, 2011, 01:49:08 AM
Looking good...... And progressing very well Chris!  :clap: :clap: :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DaveH on July 14, 2011, 08:35:42 PM
Coming along nicely Chris. :clap:

DaveH
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: CallMeAl on July 15, 2011, 12:34:09 AM
Great work!  I'm just clocking in on this build.  Skillfully done and will be fun to watch it come together as time goes on.

Al
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 15, 2011, 03:35:17 AM
Al, that was terrible  :palm:

 :lol:

Thanks, yes, it is coming on OK !

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: kwackers on July 15, 2011, 05:09:22 AM
If I can just chime in, in my o' pinion it's certainly ticking over nicely. There's no escape now, hopefully it'll go like clockwork and not end up on the scrap pallet.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: John Hill on July 15, 2011, 05:18:49 AM
Nice job Chris. :thumbup:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 15, 2011, 05:33:56 AM
 :loco:    ohh dear me .... Al, look what you started! Kwackers - how long did you spend thinking that one up  :lol:

John, thanks for the comment!
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: spuddevans on July 15, 2011, 07:21:52 AM
Coming along nicely Chris :headbang: wont be long til the tick tock of horological success is heard.


Tim
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: andyf on July 15, 2011, 09:52:02 AM
Kwackers, those jokes were appawling!

Andy
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: kwackers on July 15, 2011, 10:41:44 AM
Sorry, hope they didn't wind you up, but with so little time on my hands...
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: cfellows on July 15, 2011, 10:44:00 AM
Nice work, Chris.  Always loved mechanical clocks.

Chuck
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 15, 2011, 07:19:28 PM
Tim - hope so!
Chuck - any clock on your project list?

Went on to make the pin wheel over the last couple of nights. Still not finished but getting there, just needs pinning. Ok here goes:

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pin1.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pin2.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pin3.jpg)

Before drilling, I needed to check the drill size was ok for pinning all 60 x 1/32" pins without the need for glue. I used a 0.75mm drill in a piece of test material and it worked really well. I used the drill as a press

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pin4.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pin5.jpg)


Then setup the wheel on the CNC rotab and drilled the holes
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pin6.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pin7.jpg)

Took a bit of a risk as I feel I can make a better job of the crossing out on the mill rather than by hand fully. However, the arbour wasn`t strong enough so risked moving it to another bigger chuck. I managed to centre it and of course checked it before I started any cutting but it worked out well.
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pin8.jpg)

Now all the front face and crossing out needs fully cleaning up. Problem is that when it is pinned you can`t really get at it all so the wheel needs totally finishing before being pinned.
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pin9.jpg)
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: andyf on July 15, 2011, 07:41:05 PM
Nice looking wheel, Chris.

Those holes are very closely spaced; you may need a smaller chuck (a pin chuck?) to press the pins home. .

Did you end up making the 1/32" pins, or did you find somewhere to buy 'em?

Andy
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 16, 2011, 03:03:40 AM
Hi Nick, sorry I should have explained; I just used the chuck on the test one. For the rest I`m going to use a 1/8" steel rod drilled 0.8mm to the depth of the required protruding length of the pin, the pin will be a snug fit. I`ll push the pin in, which will be held in place with a magent on the outside of the steel rod. Then I`ll obviously push the pin home and in an ideal world it should be a good enough fit to locate and pull itself out of the holder!

Sounds good in theory doesn`t it  :lol:

I couldn`t find premade 1/32 dowel pins anywhere so I`m going to have to cut them all. Until I had the 1/32" rod in front of me I didn`t realise how thin it was so this really shouldn`t be a problem.

Hopefully a little more progress over the next couple of days.  
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 16, 2011, 03:26:35 AM
Just a note on the count wheel. I spent a few hours last night reading Gadget Builders site and his Gearless clock build and he has put an update on the site 10 July, I think acutally based on something we discussed:

So info below direct quote from www.gadgetbuilder.com
Quote
An observation on the count wheel is that the teeth are deeper than necessary. Making the teeth only about 30 thou deep with one tooth more than full depth would make adjusting the pawl to catch the deflector much easier. As it is, this adjustment has little margin for error. The wheel would look much different, of course, with just small triangular notches and one large notch. I used Loctite to secure the count pawl because setting the pickup of the deflector is touchy and it kept getting knocked out of kilter during testing; Locktite in this one spot made life easier.

This sounds a really great idea and something he discussed with me via email but trying to follow the build log by John Wilding, I didn`t really want to make any changes to the working plans. Now in retrospect, I am going to rebuild the countwheel to this new design.

When you look at my video of the count wheel moving, all that is actually required is enough depth on each tooth for the 1/32" wire pawl to catch a tooth and pull it forward and then for the same dia wire as a backstop to lock into the back of a tooth. 30thou will be a good enough flat back to the tooth for this to happen and it`ll mean that the deep tooth will look more like one of my normal teeth and therefore having an acceptable slope for the pawls to climb. I can also see how awkward the deflector piece is going to be to set as the difference in drop is so slight. With smaller "normal" teeth it will be a more significant drop and easier to set the deflector to "catch" it. 
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 16, 2011, 04:14:47 AM
Hi Nick, sorry I should have explained; I just used the chuck on the test one. For the rest I`m going to use a 1/8" steel rod drilled 0.8mm to the depth of the required protruding length of the pin, the pin will be a snug fit. I`ll push the pin in, which will be held in place with a magent on the outside of the steel rod. Then I`ll obviously push the pin home and in an idea world it should be a good enough fit to locate and pull itself out of the holder!

Sounds good in theory doesn`t it  :lol:

 

Good plan Chris  :thumbup:


Count Wheel is coming along Great  :clap: :clap:



Rob
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: NickG on July 16, 2011, 11:07:23 AM
Brilliant work Chris, I've just seen the video  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: saw on July 17, 2011, 04:37:59 AM
Nice work.  :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 18, 2011, 04:44:07 PM
Finally after hours of trialing various methods I managed to get a method to cut the pins down to about 20 seconds a pin.

Knocked up this little punch. Both parts are silver steel and hardened. The small bit is obviously the punch and the large part has a matching hole of dia 0.22" (iirc) which is the length of the pin required. The large section is also cross drilled 0.8mm
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pin10.jpg)

Just got given a set of letter stamps so thoughts I`d try and use some for the first time putting my initials on the new tool :D
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pin11.jpg)

I milled two flats on the bottom of the large section so it can be held in the vice. Setup like shown below with the red box to collect the pins:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pin12.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pin13.jpg)

To pin the wheel I took a small piece of steel bar, drilled 0.8mm ensuring that with the pin pushed in fully, a small length was sticking out to push all the way through the brass of the wheel. I put a few tiny magnets on the pin holding guide to hold the pin in place which was just coping how "Gadget Builder" did when he built this clock.
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pin15.jpg)

Complete pinned wheel !!
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pin16.jpg)

Next to make the arbour and supporting frames and get it mounted on the clock. Then back to remake the count wheel  :ddb: 

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: millwright on July 18, 2011, 06:16:05 PM
Nice Work Chris, Wish i had the spare time on my hands to get some of my  machining done, whoops sorry wasnt meaning to start one of those runs of witty comments. :doh:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 18, 2011, 06:41:22 PM
I`m pleased you didn`t!    :borg: 
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: CallMeAl on July 18, 2011, 11:35:56 PM
Great solution to your cutting pin problem. I sure like your pin wheel, looks fantastic!

Al
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: NickG on July 19, 2011, 04:49:10 AM
Genius idea and the wheel looks great!  :bow:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DaveH on July 19, 2011, 07:19:09 AM
Chris,

Well thought out, and nicely done.

DaveH

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: saw on July 19, 2011, 09:43:26 AM
Looking good.  :clap:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Spurry on July 19, 2011, 10:07:40 AM
Chris

Looks like you found a very neat solution to the problem. I thought that in one of the early posts you wanted a radiused end to the pins. How did you overcome that? Was any additional finishing required after shearing with the little gadget?

Pete
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 19, 2011, 12:30:59 PM
Nice going Chris    :bow: :bow:,,,,,,,,,,, looks dam fiddly  :bugeye:



Rob
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Stilldrillin on July 19, 2011, 01:00:10 PM
Chris.
You're producing some good results these days.......   :clap: :clap: :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 19, 2011, 02:02:23 PM
David, thanks for your post. I am improving but I`m still not patient enough. I need to learn to sit for longer on one thing if I am eventually to make a Tourbillon, but that is a story for another day....    In retrospect, more time should have been taken burnishing the wheel crossings but to be honest, I`ve only just read a good method of doing it so I suppose I`m just still learning and the next wheel will be better.

Thanks to everyone else for their replies of encouragement.

Spurry/Pete, yes I had to insert each pin into a pin vice and turn the end down on a fine stone. I didn`t include this process in my pin making time! To be honest, it wasn`t really a radius, just as long as there was no sharp points. The beauty of the punch is that it forced the wire inwards to bring it to a nice clean cut tapering slightly in. Using a grinding wheel on a dremel left a very sharp edge and caused a lot of filing to be done. This method only required a quick tidy up of the cut end, I didn`t truely round them.

Hopefully I will find time over the next few nights to make the arbour and the mounting plates.

Chris  
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Spurry on July 19, 2011, 02:20:24 PM
Hi Chris

Thanks for the additional snippets. Seen and noted.  :thumbup:

Pete
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 19, 2011, 06:29:17 PM
Made the pin wheel arbour tonight which also doubles up as the drive pully. There is a few issues with this related to the type of line I ultimately use. Basically, the drive wheel obtains it rotation from the falling weight, simply by the friction of the line pulling over the pully. As you can imagine, this is tricky as if the angle is too sharp in the V groove of the drive pully, the line can bind and if too narrow, the line will slip. I chose to follow more advice by John (Gadget Builder) who has suggested to me I try 45 deg as Dr Woodward did and use monofillament line. I can always open up this angle and try builders line if I want to, but couldn`t go the other way unless I remade the pully.

Set about cutting a 45deg V form tool and cutting the pully V:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pinarbour1.jpg) 

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pinarbour2.jpg) 

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pinarbour3.jpg) 

Collet and arbour complete:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pinarbour4.jpg) 

And complete wheel on arbour with a bearing with 1/8" ID stuck on the end just to check they fit  :ddb:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pinarbour5.jpg) 


Plates next and then get the wheel mounted.

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: saw on July 20, 2011, 01:54:59 PM
This project is come along just fine  :clap:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: arnoldb on July 20, 2011, 02:16:29 PM
You're turning out some top notch work here Chris  :clap: :clap: - really good going  :thumbup:

 :beer:, Arnold
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DaveH on July 21, 2011, 03:27:46 AM
Nicely done Chris :clap:

 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Henning on July 28, 2011, 04:20:22 PM
Now THAT is an excellent piece of engineering!

Beautifully done there!  :nrocks:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: BiggerHammer on July 28, 2011, 05:07:34 PM
Very nice work once again. Saw the pinwheel and had a flashback to all those old science fiction movies I used to watch. Looks a lot like one of the space stations.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on July 30, 2011, 04:29:03 AM
Thanks guys! I`ve been on holiday so only just read the last few messages. I got a bit more done actually and the wheel is now mounted on its bearings! I`ve got a few jobs to do in my workshop so work has stopped for another week but should get back at it next week. Thanks again.

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on August 04, 2011, 05:53:13 PM
Both wheel mounted and some pleasing filing on the arc!!

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/wheelsboth.JPG)
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DaveH on August 04, 2011, 06:02:14 PM
Oh very smart Chris
 :clap: :clap: :clap:
 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: doubleboost on August 04, 2011, 06:05:48 PM
Hi
Chris
Coming on very nicely  :clap: :clap: :clap:
Looks a bit fiddly for me  :bugeye: :bugeye:
Young eyes must help i supose  :( :( :(
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on August 04, 2011, 07:33:11 PM
Thanks chaps. It is coming on very very slowly as I`m changing my workshop to be a little more suited to clock and watch repair/making. I`ve just pulled up the swarf ridden wooden slated flooring and have replaced it with vinyl so that I can sweep it and retreive lost parts. That does mean I`ll need to be much more clinical with my maching and keep the floor and surfaces cleaner. That is now down but it was a huge task! I`ve also replaced an entire bench with a watchmakers high seated desk. The desk is currently half made but should be finished in the next few days.
Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DaveH on August 05, 2011, 05:10:47 AM
Chris,
The desk is currently half made but should be finished in the next few days.
Chris

 :worthless:
DaveH
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on August 05, 2011, 10:48:34 AM
lol, my woodworking skills aren`t up to much but i`ll post a few pre-painted pictures later tonight.

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on August 12, 2011, 08:01:54 AM
Well I finally finished my workshop tidy up and made my little watchmakers bench. Isn`t much but does the job for me and is very sturdy. I`ve never had a desk in my workshop so it good having somewhere to sit and think and put my legs under! The lower top stands about 36" and the upper working surface top stands at 44" which makes it chest height when sat down as a watchmakers bench should be. I must admit, it is really comfortable sat at this height when working on delicate stuff (I dismanteld and rebuilt a smiths pocket watch yesterday on it just to "test" it!)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/watchbench.JPG)

...and with the workshop now back together again, I continued for a few hours with the clock. I decided to make the impulse pawl and then all pendulum parts are complete.

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/impulse1.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/impulse2.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/impulse3.JPG)

And mounted on the pendulum...

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/impulse4.JPG)

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DaveH on August 13, 2011, 07:32:32 AM
Chris,

Nice looking bench, just the job :)

Your clock is coming along very nicely. :clap:

Really looks good :thumbup:

Some good workmanship :clap: :clap: :clap:
 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: spuddevans on August 13, 2011, 09:34:23 AM
That's a nice looking workstation Chris, and great progress on the clock too. :thumbup:


Tim
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on August 13, 2011, 11:14:36 AM
Thanks Dave and Tim.

I spent a few hours this morning when everyone was in bed completing the "gated detent". This is a critical part, it allows a single pin on the pin wheel to slide through the gate but catches and holds the next pin until the next impulse.

The paddles were made from 0.02" steel shim but I couldn`t find anything suitable, so I butchered one of my very cheap shim gauges. The price of the gauge was no more than I would have been willing to pay for a suitable piece of stock. It was a pain because it was hardened or stainless? I could only cut it with a dremel grinding disk which worked quite well.

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/detent1.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/detent2.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/detent3.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/detent4.JPG)

When an impulse occurs, the paddle tips down and a pin slides along the top of the top blade and falls throught the gate where it catches on the lip sticking out on the bottom (the bottom paddle). As the deten tips, it tips off the pin from the bottom paddle/detent which then accepts and catches the new pin. 
It was very small, the bottom paddle sticks out only 1/32" but can be adjusted by the bottom screw.

Next onto the mountain brackets. Then I still want to go back and make my count wheel again.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Rick O Shea on August 13, 2011, 02:13:43 PM
Hi Chris
your clock project is looking very good. I wonder if you have considered using suspension spring steel , which is avaliable in quite a few sizes and is not terrible expensive. When cutting spring really you cant............... so I tend to break it over a very sharp edge of a vice or similar, as you know is is a real pain to cut, the way that I was taught to  get a hole in it was to use a punch.  If you have a look on any  web auction site a set of 'staking tools' will  be well worth while buying 'specally if you are going to get in to clock and watch repair and making.
 I recon you are making a very good job of what is not a simple project by any means.

best of luck       
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on August 13, 2011, 05:38:29 PM
Hi Rick - yes, I thought about spring steel after I had decided to use this spare slip gauge. I punched the spring steel earlier in this thread to form the suspension spring but this little piece was much smaller and more delicate with a critical slot. I`m actually picking up a nice Boley staking set on Friday, so I`ll post a few pics on here when it arrives. It is hard to find literature on how exactly it is and can be used.  Thanks for the interest and advice...!

Chris  
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on August 16, 2011, 04:08:24 PM
Gated Detent mounted and functioning correctly! It allows a pin to slip through the gate and immediately catches it on the bottom lip until the force is removed from the pin wheel or the pin wheel is rotated a little in reverse by the pendulum:

Here is the adjustable bracket that holds the gated detent in position:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/detent5.JPG)

..and mounted;
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/detent6.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/detent7.JPG)

Now I`ve moved onto the deflector piece:

Roughed out:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/deflector1.JPG)

and then filed to shape with pawls attached:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/deflector2.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/deflector3.JPG)

Hopefully get that mounted in the next few days...

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: CallMeAl on August 16, 2011, 11:36:28 PM
Coming along nicely.  I like you use of an old feeler gauge for thin stock.  I have to remember to do that with the several gauges I have with the numbers worn off or unreadable.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: kvom on August 17, 2011, 09:28:27 AM
I'm liking this thread a lot.   :clap:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on August 23, 2011, 08:20:42 PM
I`ve not posted an update for a few days and the truth is, I`d made all the parts required to test the mechanism and I must have spent near 10 hours just tweeking the setup to get it to run. Finally, just as I was giving up again for the evening, I had a brain wave, made some changes and off it went tick-toc, tick-toc   :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:

I`ve many corrections to make to the working mechanism and you will spot a huge error in the working of the backstop - notice when the backstop engages the large tooth,it jumps/catches the count wheel. I think this is just the position of the backstop pawl but I wanted to leave it and let it have some time running. It didn`t effect the physical mechanism but it will cause errors in the time, so it will need correcting. I have a much much better idea now of how this all fits together so I`m now very confident I can get it working more smoothly!

Here goes, I just did my best to video it in bad light at this time of night.  :ddb:



----------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: I`ve managed to catch this thread in time to edit it and insert some details of the movement again for those interested.

1. The pendulum swings 40 periods each minute, gathering a tooth on the 40 tooth count wheel. The count wheel therefore rotates once every minute and so the seconds hand could be placed on this wheel but it would turn in reverse. Consequently, Wilding didn`t have any seconds indication but Woodward placed numbers on his count wheel to approximate the seconds.

2. The count wheel has a single deeper tooth than the rest. When the count wheel pawl (the top wire on the pendulum) drops into this deep tooth, it engages the vertical wire on the deflector piece. At 56 seconds in the video, you can see the count wheel pawl going over the top of the deflector and imagine how it interacts when it hits the deep tooth.

3. The deflector therefore tips anticlockwise and this causes the diagonal piece of the deflector piece to obviously tip down as well. You can see the deflector mounted on the backplate below (the other bit you can see at the bottom of the deflector is a stop to stop it tipping all the way back at rest).

4. This bottom piece of the deflector bears down on the lower wire from the pendulum (the impulse pawl) which engages a tooth on the pin wheel.

5. You can`t see this on the video but there is a small weight (a large allan key!) hooked directly onto a tooth (at about 3 oclock position) on the pin wheel. The tooth on the pin wheel is engaged with the bottom lip of the deflector piece. When the impulse pawl pulls the pin wheel back by a fraction, this releases the pin from the detent and the weight on the pin wheel, which in future will be a proper weight and chord, pulls the pendulum back to the right and gives it the impulse!

6. There are 60 pins on the pin wheel and so this rotates once an hour giving you the arbor for the minute hand.   A fancy "daisy motion works" will then need building to gearlessly reduce down this motion to 1 turn per 12 revolution of the minute hand/pin wheel arbour.

Hope that in some way explains how it runs!

-------------------------------------------------------------------


Some more pictures for you of bits I`ve taken as I did a quick polish ready for this test assembly.

Back plate.
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/dr1.JPG)

All the bits ready for a quick polish. This isn`t a final polish, I just needed everything clean to get it to run.
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/dr2.JPG)

Count wheel
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/dr3.JPG)

Back stop
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/dr4.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/dr5.JPG)

I made another count wheel with shallower teeth a few days ago but managed to get the original one working so didn`t bother using it yet. I might try this one as I expect that the back stop is jumping because the tooth is overly deep on my initial wheel I`m using.
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/dr6.JPG)

Pin wheel and deflector piece:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/dr7.JPG)

same as above, with the gated detent:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/dr8.JPG)


Well I can now go to bed much more positive than I have been doing for the last few weeks! I`ll post a little more detail of the mechanism and an explanation of the video tomorrow.

Good night!   :wave: :ddb:  :nrocks: :med:  :drool:  :ddb:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DaveH on August 23, 2011, 08:35:16 PM
Chris,

Excellent Chris, Excellent :thumbup: :clap:

 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: CallMeAl on August 24, 2011, 12:00:50 AM
Great work - this is so cool!

Al
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Stilldrillin on August 24, 2011, 01:52:49 AM
Another runner! What a great feeling...... :ddb: :ddb:

Well done Chris.  :clap: :clap: :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: John-Som on August 24, 2011, 03:43:42 AM
You must be chuffed to bits Chris. Doesn't she sound good too !

John-Som
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on August 24, 2011, 04:03:16 AM
Thanks guys, I must admit, I`m really pleased! I`ve not posted a lot for the last week but in truth, I`ve worked on it this week more than ever just trying to get it running! Infact, I`ve had my alarm clock set for 5:30am to give me an hour and half each morning before the family woke up. I think it was bordering on obsessive! I`m much more relaxed now it is running in a fashion. I`m going to have to have a serious think about the backstop - I think the deep tooth is too deep for the position of the back stop and the angle it is pivoting from. I`ll make a longer one and bend it slightly, see if that helps.

I don`t think John visits the forum, but "Gadgetbuilder" has been a massive help and has sent me extensive emails with ideas and support. I actually couldn`t have got it running without his advice. So thanks John, if you ever come across this thread!

I`ve gone back into the original message and edited it to add some details of how it runs in bold text. I hope this makes sense.

Thanks again.

Chris  
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: saw on August 24, 2011, 04:54:16 AM
Congratt I just kove this project  :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: spuddevans on August 24, 2011, 05:59:09 AM
That looks and runs really nicely Chris, Well done that man  :clap: :headbang: :clap:

I bet you haven't been able to wipe the  :)  off your face today.


Tim
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Rick O Shea on August 24, 2011, 09:34:55 AM
Cracking job Chris very well done, congratulations. 
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: AdeV on August 24, 2011, 09:40:17 AM
That's a really nice clock, and has a wonderful sound to it.

I can't for the life of me figure out how the "gated detent" works...? I can see it flip up & down, somehow allowing a pin through... I just can't see how the pin gets past the tongue... - doh, I see it now, there's a slot cut in the tongue...

Nice work Chris, will it have hands by tomorrow? ;)
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on August 24, 2011, 10:46:36 AM
Cheers Chaps.

AdeV - no doubt it`ll stop working before you can see it or it`ll probably stop working tonight when I try and "fix" the back stop from jumping!

I`ve had it running for well over an hour now, which is great but hard work since I have to keep "lifting the weights", so to speak, every 12-15 minutes before the make shift weights (a large steel Allan key!) hits the bottom pillar.

If I can get the back stop from jumping, the next step is to make the pulley system and set it up exactly the same but with a real weight system and have it running for a few days. To be honest, I`m quite excited, I`ve timed it over 15 minutes and with the pendulum set how I initially set it up, I can`t see any loss of time. Clearly I could be minutes out over a week but I was expecting to be way off just timing it for this short time!

Next jobs...1. backstop fix   2. pulley weight system.

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: doubleboost on August 24, 2011, 04:23:18 PM
Hi
Chris
That is looking great  :thumbup: :thumbup:
A real credit to you  :clap: :clap: :clap:
I think i will stick to my 4 mill bolts (easy on the eyes) :bugeye: :bugeye:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: NickG on August 24, 2011, 06:31:07 PM
Chris, that is fantastic - I haven't tried to digest how it works at all yet but will do in time!

 :bow:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: kvom on August 24, 2011, 10:24:11 PM
lovely work.   :bow:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: jgroom on August 25, 2011, 06:51:14 AM
Making great progress Chris!  :clap:

Cheers

Jeff
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on August 28, 2011, 06:41:58 PM
Thanks for the messages guys. Always nice to see people enjoying the build.

I`ve not had much time the last few evenings. The truth is, I work on my clock at night when everyone is in bed and I`ve been so tired I`ve been sleeping myself! I got the weight pulley system together which took a lot longer than I expected! These little things were tricky to make!

 They each run on a tiny bearing;
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pw1.JPG)

Because they are only about 3mm wide, I found it really tricky to have a blind hole to a press fit. It was too tight and I ended up killing the little bearing trying to press it into the housing, or it slipped into place. Consequently I had to loctite the bearing into the housing:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pw2.JPG)

Then I made some small shaft for them to sit on:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pw3.JPG)

I managed to get it all hooked up. I then needed a way of checking the weight required in the both the master and jockey weight before cutting any 2" dia steel to size! Both Woodward and Wilding explain that the jockey weight and master weight are dependent on the line used and pulley setup. Woodward used nylon fishing line but this seems to offer no resistence. A kind chap from the NAWCC forum sent me a length of nylon line but like Wilding and Gadget builder, I couldn`t get enough friction and the line just slipped. I am currently using builders braded line and it is working well. I`ve used a coffee jar full off steel offcuts as the master weight which allows me to adjust the weight. I`ve still not got this quite right. I think my jockey weight it too heavy at present. I had the clock running for about 45mins but the pendulum slowly slowly slowly dropped, indicating the master weight on the centre wheel isn`t heavy enough. Woodward did use a much heavier weight than Wilding, and I`m currently using the smaller weight recommended by Wilding. Tomorrow I`ll adjust this, but the clock is running with the pulley...I just need to get the weight and jockey weight sorted and then I can move to the dreaded daisy motion!!!

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pw4.JPG)
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on August 28, 2011, 06:47:15 PM
 :lol:  I like the fact I`ve started a thread about using sterling silver on this clock and I`m currently dangling a coffee jar off it!!  :lol:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: AdeV on August 28, 2011, 06:57:09 PM
:lol:  I like the fact I`ve started a thread about using sterling silver on this clock and I`m currently dangling a coffee jar off it!!  :lol:

You could have at least used Gold Blend!  :palm:

Alternatively, Kenko's Millicano (or whatever it's called) comes in silver tins, would one of those do?  ::)

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on August 31, 2011, 03:38:23 PM
I`m very much in a state of experimenting now with the clock to get it running OK. My impatience has been my fall once again! The clock kept stopping randomly between either 30 minutes or 3 hours if I was lucky and there were a few compounding issues.

In a desperate attempt to get the clock running, I`d used a hoop on the coffee jar lid which wasn`t allowing the line to slip correctly and if you look at my picture in the last post, it was pulling the line down off the pin wheel at an angle. I made a very rough pulley based on Wildings plans. I will need to shape and finish this to make it look more elegant, but it will transfer to the master weight when I`m happy with everything.

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearlesscorrect1.JPG)

Once this was on the clock, I found most of my problems went away but I still struggled with pendulum losing momentum. Woodward suggested 1400g master weight with the jockey weight being 60% of this when used with nylon monofilament line to stop slippage. Wilding used only a 700g master weight and although he explained Woodwards ideas, he admittedly used a far smaller jockey weight than the 60% suggestion. I was using about 850-900g in my master weight (because I was trying to get the pendulum to have a bigger impulse) and about 200g in my jockey weight. Wilding did mention you could use less "if you could get away with it" and because the braided builders line has much more "grip" than any monofilament fishing line, I experiments to see what the minimum I could use was. Using too little jockey mass and the line would slip and the master weight would slowly fall, however using a small M10 bolt and adding nuts as extras weights, I got to about 50g for the jockey weight.
This made all the difference and my problems with impulse had gone! The clock was running... but that lead to another problem...!!!

With the bigger impulse, the backstop pawl started jumping again! This is something John (gadget builder) and I have been discussing for a while but no amount of bending of the wire could stop it. The position Wilding suggestions will clearly work but even if you don`t get the jumping I was experiencing, this low position of the backstop is not ideal. Really the backstop should be acting in a more horizontal position like the count pawl is acting in on the pendulum rod. This will allow it to easily lift and drop off each tooth, especially the deeper one I was having problems with. John suggested a better position for the bridge would actually be at a 30 deg angle! This wouldn`t look great in my opinion, but the higher position of the backstop would at least reduce the force on the count wheel. This was irrelevant anyway as it was installed on the clock!

The other option would be to take a bracket off the right bridge pillar and mount the backstop on there! So that it was free to move I used a small bearings. To reduce friction even more, I intentionally increased the length of the backstop wire and hooked the back end so that I could add small washers as weights to counter-balance the backstop. This made a MASSIVE difference, both the position and the counter balance. The position stopped it from jumping all together and by adding the small weights, you could tell friction was reduced because the back stop became silent in action!  :ddb:

Now, I made this as a quick job and haven`t shaped it or polished it and clearly I`m not going to use washers to counterbalance the system on the final thing!!! I just stuck it on to see if it would work, but once I`ve made this look OK it will be installed. The bracket needs rounding at both ends and making much narrower:

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearlesscorrect2.JPG)  

It has been running since 10am this morning which is about 10 hours 30 mins of running time. Fingers crossed it is still going tomorrow morning!!

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/gearlesscorrect3.JPG)  
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: spuddevans on August 31, 2011, 04:02:44 PM
Coming along nicely there Chris :thumbup:

Tim
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DMIOM on August 31, 2011, 05:08:36 PM
.....It has been running since 10am this morning which is about 10 hours 30 mins of running time. Fingers crossed it is still going tomorrow morning!!

Well done Chris, that's marvellous; and it must be even more satisfying that you've been able to analyse the problem and devise a workable solution  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:

PS how long before you can regulate the clock and then measure the run on the clock itself ?

cheers / Dave
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on August 31, 2011, 05:51:21 PM
Thanks Tim!

Dave, yes, it is a tricky one that. I`ve timed it over 10 minutes and using a standard stop watch started from the drop of the impulse pawl there is no clear difference in time. Now this in reality tells me bugger all, other than I`m not rediculously far out but to be honest, I could have lost or corrected the time keeping in my human error of starting the timer! Of course I`ll need to test it over hours, days and weeks for fine adjustments.

I think knowing or at least presuming that the time keeping of the clock is not rediculously out, I`m inclined to complete the clock, face, hands and case! Everything is so delicate and movements on one part, effect a movement or interaction on the other. It isn`t quite the same as a standard geared clock in that respect - it is much more delicate! It takes a good few 5-10 minutes for the pendulum to start to regulate itself alone after the initial human push...I`ve spent hours watching it now, making a change, waiting 10 minutes for it to regulate only to have it stop 30 minutes later and repeat!!  I think I`m going to make it absolutely complete, mount it in position and then start to regulate and test the time keeping... when I get it running well I can then just leave it as I`m guaranteed, when I try and get it right in a temporary setup and try and move it to its permanent position, it`ll change!

I expect it`ll take me a a good few evenings to make the daisy motion and some temporary hands. Perhaps at that point I`ll clean up what I have and mount it uncovered in position and start testing. I`ve not done a shred of woodworking so the case making is going to be fun!  I also need to purchase a proper clock time keeper. It is something I`ve wanted for ages and this is the first real time I can justify the money.

I`m woffling.... 3 or 4 weeks and we should see how well it runs.

Chris

PS. 10:45pm  so that is now 12 hours 15 mins run time!
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: sbwhart on September 01, 2011, 03:44:37 AM
Well done with the build Chris it looks a neat bit of work.

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Stew

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Deko on September 01, 2011, 04:39:22 AM
Looking good Chris. ( I like those little bearings !!! ) Keep up the good work, and check your PM's now and then.

     Cheers  Derek
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: NickG on September 01, 2011, 08:05:35 AM
Great stuff Chris, fantasic achievement  :bow:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on September 01, 2011, 11:33:27 AM
Deko - those little bearings are fantastic but sadly I`ve used 10 of them now. They are quite delicate and I destroyed a couple trying to friction press fit them in the case :(  If only I knew if they could be purchased, I`d get more in stock! I have about 6 left which I will be saving until I have a very good need!! I`m still working on the idea we discussed and haven`t forgot about it!

Stew and Nick - thanks a lot. I`m pretty chuffed. It is now 4:30pm and it is still running, I just had to raise the master weight which was a real pain so I`m going to have to think about the maintaining works pretty soon as well.

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: kvom on September 01, 2011, 04:39:15 PM
How about a photo showing how the cord attaches to the pin wheel shaft?  The support plate is blocking the view.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on September 01, 2011, 05:11:31 PM
Hi Kvom, it goes around a 45 deg (not the 40 deg specified in the plans) V groove on the wheel arbor:

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pinarbour4.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/pinarbour5.jpg)

Hope that makes sense...
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on September 07, 2011, 05:25:30 PM
Well as with last time when I hadn`t posted for a while, it isn`t not because I`ve not been working on it, just struggling!

For the first time, I`ve gone ahead and made a part without actually understanding how it works and fits together. The daisy wheel is very clever. Gadget builder has posted on youtube a nice video showing as best he could how it runs but despite his best efforts, reading all the books I could, I still couldn`t quite understand it.

&feature=related

The basic idea is a daisy shaped wheel running on a cam like action to get your 12:1 reduction. It is an amazing concept since most geared motion works requires a number of gears (two gears would get your 12:1 reduction but would have the hour hand running backwards!)  This concept does just use 2 parts, the daisy wheel and pin wheel and gets the 12:1 reduction!!!

The first part is the pin wheel, you can in theory use 12, 4 or even 2 pin, I went with 4. My filing is improving as is my use of a piercing saw but with this being such a central piece, I wanted a nice finish so marked out with off centre holes and mounted each hole on the arbour in my rotary table to cut the shape:

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/daisy1.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/daisy2.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/daisy3.JPG)

I then spent all my time on daisy wheels making 4 attempts in total. I ended up using my first but I am determined to make a better one before I call the clock complete. Just getting the concept to work made me happy but I think now I understand it better, I can make a nicer looking one.

Marked out the daisy wheel
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/daisy4.JPG)

and then no more close ups or details as it looks like a rat chewed it!! All I will say, is that the petals are not needed and are just an added possible problem so get rid of them. I first read that the petals can be removed by looking at a picture sent to gadgetbuilder by Anthony Adams who had "abbreviated" the petals. They are not needed. In action it does appear like the pin wheel is riding the petals but in theory, the pins are simply locating in the "V" of the petals and not riding on the petal top itself.

Here are all the parts to the daisy wheel including some clock hands that I dug out of my stash which luckly fit.

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/daisy5.JPG)


At this point, I could then place the daisy wheel in the pin wheel and locate the pins in some of the bottom daisy "V"s. I could then spin the wheel in the pin wheel and you could observe the 12:1 reduction. The issue was then making a cam with the correct throw. Too much and the pins bind, too little and the pins wouldn`t engage. When I got it somewhere near, the petals tops started causing an issue which is why I lobbed them off in a desperate attempt to get it to run, and I was lucky, and it did!

The daisy motion is a totally independant unit. At the very back of the pin wheel arbor I have put a piece of bent spring steel with a taper pin behind it. The entire daisy motion is then pushed up against the bent spring steel and a taper pin inserted at the front to hold everything in place. This then acts a clutch allowing you to alter the time as the daisy motion/minute hand is not stuck or screwed to the pin wheel arbor, it is just being held by friction against the spring steel.

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/daisy7.JPG)

And finally a video for you:

&feature=youtu.be

It has only been running for about 2 hours and is working OK with the hour hand turning nicely. However plenty of time to stop and bind yet!!

Although my daisy wheel works, it looks a mess and also the "V" between petals is too large, this means the hour hand hangs for a good few minutes without moving rather than a nice gradual progression with the minute hand. It isn`t really noticable but I`ll notice it  :dremel:

Hope you are enjoying the build. I`m certainly enjoying making it!

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: saw on September 07, 2011, 06:48:50 PM
You are doing a very good work, I hope that it will work out very well for you.  :bugeye:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: spuddevans on September 08, 2011, 02:11:32 AM
That's coming along very nicely Chris :thumbup: I hadn't seen the "daisy wheel motion" before, thanks for showing it.



Tim
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Stilldrillin on September 08, 2011, 02:15:16 AM
I very much admire your perseverance Chris!  :clap: :clap:

But now, I'm lost completely!  :palm:

Hope it makes more sense after I've had me breakfast.......  :thumbup:

Yer doing well...... Keep on with the developments!  :D

David D
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: picclock on September 08, 2011, 07:15:11 AM
Hi Chris

Can you give any more info or a video of the daisy wheel reduction mechanism ?.

I'm probably being a bit dense here, but the daisy has 12 notches, and there are 4 pins on the wheel which is mounted eccentrically. So in my mind I see each petal advancing 1/12th of a revolution every pin engagement. So I would see this as a 3:1 reduction which it obviously isn't.

What happens if the daisy wheel is moved to a halfway position at the moment when the pin should engage - I presume this would cause it to jam, so how do you ensure during adjustment of the time that this does not occur ?

Very interesting project, thanks so much for sharing.

Best Regards

picclock
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on September 08, 2011, 10:48:59 AM
Thanks for the comments and interest you are taking.

I have to admit that I`m not great at reading tech. drawings and every part I`ve ever made, I`ve had to understand how it works first to help read the drawings. This is the first assembly I`ve ever made without understanding how it run...despite my best efforts and hours or reading and studying, I just could work it out. I don`t expect to do much better at explaining how it runs but I`ll do my best with perhaps a video later tonight!!

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/daisy5.JPG)

The first thing to note that confused me massively was that the only single part  revolving once per hour and therefore "stuck" (it is actually friction fit against the clutch spring) to pin wheel arbor, is the minute collet - that is the part with the cam attached in the centre of the photo. So that is doing 1 complete turn per hour. The end of it is thread and the minute hand is sat screwed onto the end.

The pin wheel is also free to turn independently on its axle (the minute collet) but can`t as its pins get stuck in the grooves of the petals. The pin wheel has the hour hand stuck on it.

The daisy wheel then simply "sits" on the cam and slides on it. So as the cam turns the daisy wheel lifts up and down.

As the daisy wheel lifts to the top and then to the bottom each hour, its action throws the legs of the pin wheels between the daisy petals and each hour, a pin locates to the next V on the daisy wheel. There are 11 petals and "V" notches between petals on the wheel and therefore in my simple head, I can`t do any more than imagine the count of the hour hand and it works - for 12 rotations of the daisy wheel the pin wheel rotates one complete turn.  

I don`t think I`ve posted gadgetbuilders youtube video... THIS IS NOT MY VIDEO but it a great vid of how it works:

&feature=related
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DaveH on September 08, 2011, 01:37:00 PM
Chris,

Great work Chris :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I have to say that daisy wheel (thing) is damn clever  :jaw:

 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: NickG on September 08, 2011, 01:48:56 PM
Chris, I haven't even tried to understand it yet ... but it's awesome, beautiful ... well done!  :bow:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: picclock on September 08, 2011, 02:37:29 PM
@ Chris

Thanks very much for the video link, I think I get it now. Its kind of similar to a planet and sun arrangement. Whoever thought that out was a very clever guy  :bow:. 

Thanks very much for sharing.

Best Regards

picclock
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: kvom on September 08, 2011, 03:54:59 PM
I assume that the rod attached to the botto m of the daisy wheel is just a weight to keep the daisy wheel oriented.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on September 09, 2011, 03:17:05 AM
The rod attached to the bottom of the daisy wheel ensures that the wheel slides on the cam. The rod is trapped between the two pins (currently two long 10Ba screws that are mounted next to each other on the pin wheel plate. In gadget builders video you can see how the daisy wheel rod is getting pushed from side to side but the two pin are holding the wheel relatively square but yet allowing it to freely move on the cam.

I`m making this entire section again using a bearing mounted in the daisy wheel centre for smoother running.

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: modeldozer on September 09, 2011, 07:03:25 AM
Well done. :clap: :clap:  Good luck with the remake.

Abraham
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: BillTodd on September 09, 2011, 08:24:09 AM
A quick animation of a cycloidal reduction gear as used in Chris's clock

(http://billtodd.dyndns.org/animations/cycloidal reducer 1.gif)

Bill
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on September 09, 2011, 12:27:02 PM
Did you make that Bill ??? If so, how the hell did you do it???   :bow: :bow: :bow:

EDIT: ps. when I post this write up to my blog, can I include the image if I give you full credit of course?
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: BillTodd on September 09, 2011, 02:41:52 PM
Quote
EDIT: ps. when I post this write up to my blog, can I include the image if I give you full credit of course?
No problem. (you might want to host it on your site rather then link it. )

[edit]

This is a slightly more accurate cycloidal reduction gear. The petals aren't quite right - they are circular rather than a cycloid.

(http://billtodd.dyndns.org/animations/cycloidal reducer 2.gif)

Bill
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on September 09, 2011, 03:41:52 PM
Bill - what did you use to create the image?

Also, from it, can you chop the petals tips off to show a version of the abbreviated wheel to show it works without? Thanks for allowing me to save the image and I will host it myself.

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: BillTodd on September 09, 2011, 04:14:34 PM
Quote
can you chop the petals tips off to show a version of the abbreviated wheel to show it works without?
Ah! TILT, I cant, because I've modified the original model to produce the later animation - Sorry :doh:


[edit] I've just upload my new animations page http://billtodd.dyndns.org/animations/index.html

what do you think ? I've a load of extra ones to add at some stage.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: picclock on September 10, 2011, 03:16:34 AM
@BillTodd

Excellent animation - a picture truly is worth a thousand words. Many Thanks.

What program did you use to create it ?

Best Regards

picclock
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on September 12, 2011, 05:22:23 PM
Disaster, the weight slipped tonight when winding and mucked up all the setup as well as bending a couple of pins on the pin wheel. Time to cry the night away ....  :palm:

Once I`ve corrected it, the next thing on the list as a mod to the movement is a stop for the jockey weight so it won`t happen again.   :med: :coffee:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Rob.Wilson on October 01, 2011, 02:55:57 PM
Your doing some really fine /top class work there Chris  :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


Rob
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 01, 2011, 03:09:38 PM
Well over 2 weeks since I updated and I can honestly say I`ve been working none stop on the clock with very little to show. The pin wheel had been damaged and some of the pins needed removing and resecuring in place which took a few evenings. I also have been doing a bit of work on the daisy wheel but nothing to show yet. However, I have made more progress on the weight setup shown below.

I`m doubling over the weights to give me a shorted pendulum drop per day. This requires two more pulleys making (shown in the second to last picture) and also a new jockey weight with a pully.

Here goes, sorry, too many photos really but I took them so may as well post them...

I took this piece of brass someone kindly donated to me a few weeks ago and turned it to a good finish.
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/joc1.JPG)

I then cut a groove in the end:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/joc2.JPG)

I then took a piece of brass bar to make the end cap. I always always struggle making something a friction fit, I`m always either just too big or just too small. So this time I turned a little lip at the end and turned it down until the bar would "just" fit with a bit of pushing into the groove. I then backed out 2 thou and parted off a disk:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/joc4.JPG)

Used a bit of loctite and hammered it in place. Popped it back in the late and faced the end flush. You can`t see the joint!
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/joc5.JPG)

I then made a screw on lid so that I can add lead weights as needed:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/joc6.JPG)

The hole in the lid is for a lever bar to screw the lid on and off, which is why the drill is in there... a good way to snap drills :D
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/joc3.JPG)

I then made the pulley for on the top.
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/joc7.JPG)

Made a screw for the pulley axle:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/joc8.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/joc9.JPG)

Then I made the pulley holder which I decided was too big, so the black mark is where I decided to chop it in half!
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/joc10.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/joc11.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/joc12.JPG)


Looks much better down you think without the top piece??

WHAT AN IDIOT I AM!! The holder is kept whole so that the line can go around the pulley, up over a pulley on the main clock and back down and tie onto the centre of the top of the holder!!!

Can anyone see a fix around it?




Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 01, 2011, 03:11:03 PM
Rob we posted at the same time...very wierd considering the thread hasn`t been updated for about 20 days!! Thanks mate, I`m getting there...taking longer than I ever imagined but now I have it "running" it is hard work getting it looking right!
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: AdeV on October 01, 2011, 03:35:45 PM

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/joc12.JPG)


Looks much better down you think without the top piece??

WHAT AN IDIOT I AM!! The holder is kept whole so that the line can go around the pulley, up over a pulley on the main clock and back down and tie onto the centre of the top of the holder!!!

Can anyone see a fix around it?


It does look much better without the top piece, even despite the  :doh:

All I can think of is: Make the pulley retaining screw longer, so a portion sticks out of the other side of the holder, and make a fancy brass hook which the extended end also screws into, and which (obviously) gives you a hook you can tie your string off to. If you make (or find/buy) a really ornate looking hook, no-one will ever suspect it's hiding a bodge up  :D
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: jgroom on October 01, 2011, 03:40:48 PM

Looks much better down you think without the top piece??

WHAT AN IDIOT I AM!! The holder is kept whole so that the line can go around the pulley, up over a pulley on the main clock and back down and tie onto the centre of the top of the holder!!!

Can anyone see a fix around it?


Oooops.....  But it does look better.  :beer:  Maybe a wire bail over the top to tie off to?

Cheers

Jeff
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: doubleboost on October 01, 2011, 03:42:42 PM
Hi
Chris
Some very nice work  :thumbup: :thumbup:
John
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 01, 2011, 07:33:55 PM
Thanks for the messages and suggestions guys.

I did a little more, decided to make a hook to fix my "issue". Looks ok imo and I think I prefer it to the solid body. Maybe the hook could be a little smaller?

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/mods2.JPG)

Here is the new pulley layout:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/mods4.JPG)

I`m going to have to make my weight narrower than I thought. Adding the extra loop in the pulley setup has thrown the chords nearer so they will clash if I make the master weight much wider than the dia of the master weight pulley. The clock is running now, so once I have the weight that works, I`ll make it from brass solid.

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/mods3.JPG)

Just for interest sakes, here is the modified back stop on a new bracket. Works much better than the one mounted on the bridge itself. I managed to plug and polish the holes from the previously drilled backstop pawl on the bridge.

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/mods1.JPG)




Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 02, 2011, 05:16:40 AM
This setup actually works much much better as there must be extra friction around the additional pulleys which means the master weight can be much heavier giving a better impulse. Still running 12 hours on and took very little fiddling this time...   :)
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: saw on October 02, 2011, 05:47:26 AM
You are doing fine, congrat  :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 02, 2011, 08:27:51 AM
Guys

This is a bit premature, but I need to start thinking about the case. My woodworking skills aren`t great but I have made a few boxes and such using traditional hand tools, so I can make a few joints etc. That being said, I need to make sure it is do`able with my limited skills!

The huge huge issue with this clock, is that the weight drops just over 6" every 24 hours. Wilding enclosed just the movement with an open bottom and allowed the pendulum and weights to drop throught the bottom:

(http://www.iantcobb.co.uk/gearless-ul-3.jpg)

Likewise Gadgetbuilder has done a similar thing here:

(http://www.gadgetbuilder.com/GearlessClock/Gearless_View.jpg)

This isn`t my ideal, I just don`t think it looks right with it all hanging out of the bottom. In Woodwards redesigned (d)W5 model, he arranged a case in a sloping angle to allow for the pendulum drop:
(http://www.davidwalter.com/images/dw5/dw5_mahogany.jpg)

Apparently the long side of the case is 43" - considering the weight will be at least starting from 14" from the top, the weight is 6" that only gives around 3 days running...which isn`t too bad and the case looks smart in my opinion....but than perhaps the curves are too difficult for me?

The other option is to make floor standing case like this:
(http://www.hip-furniture.co.uk/images/product/zoom/4/product_zoom4677.jpg)


I suppose a lot of it comes down to personal taste but my house is fairly modern, any wooden items are all light wood beach etc so I`d like a case that will suit my home. Does anyone have any thoughts or suggestions as to a suitable case design and construction?

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: BillTodd on October 02, 2011, 08:55:30 AM
Quote
Can anyone see a fix around it?

Can you double up the pulley and take a second loop back up to the clock? (you'll need to add more weigh for the same overal force but the clock should run for longer)

Bill

[edit] huh what happened there? I thought I was responding to last post?? slow internet day I guess.


Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: NickG on October 02, 2011, 09:59:47 AM
Looks much better fully enclosed. I like the curved one, the floor standing one isn't bad - better than just enclosing the movement, but personally I'd rather have it like a grandfather type clock and have the weights covered up.

Either way, this last bit it just personal touches, great work Chris  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 03, 2011, 05:14:06 PM
Hello,
I`m rubbish at design and I`m going to get this face cut in glass within the next few days. I need to mock it up in CAD for them which is going to take me best part of a day  :bugeye: with me being so useless at it.  Anyway, my current idea is 8" OD and 5" ID. There will also be a 3mm hole between 10-11 o`clock markings and 4-5 o`clock to allow it to be directly screwed to two brass pillars. The marks will be etched at 12, 3, 6, 9 with smallers marking at the rest of the hours and small markings still to split the hours.

I`ve mocked it out in cardboard just get an idea of sizes and would appreciate any feedback. Please bear in mind that it will be totally glass so I think it won`t look quite as big as it currently does...or would it look better a bit smaller?

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/face11.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/face22.jpg)

Any help would be really appreciated before I take the plunge and get it cut.

Chris

EDIT: just had another look. At 8inch dia I think the dial would be wide enough to have the mounting pillars at 12 and 6 o`clock rather than angled. Might look better as well but then again, it might look a bit crouded up at the top with the count wheel.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: saw on October 03, 2011, 05:30:02 PM
Looking good Cris.  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Rob.Wilson on October 03, 2011, 05:51:46 PM
Looks in proportion to me Chris ,,,,,,,,,,,,, gets my vote  :thumbup:


Rob
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DMIOM on October 03, 2011, 06:38:08 PM
......Anyway, my current idea is 8" OD and 5" ID. There will also be a 3mm hole between 10-11 o`clock markings and 4-5 o`clock to allow it to be directly screwed to two brass pillars......At 8inch dia I think the dial would be wide enough to have the mounting pillars at 12 and 6 o`clock rather than angled. Might look better as well but then again, it might look a bit crouded up at the top with the count wheel.

Chris,

not sure how heavy the glass (and any escutcheon?) may be, but are you sure that just two screws and two pillars will be sufficient? especially if the pillars are slender - puts me in mind of the services punishment drill where you have to hold something like a rifle out in front of you with arms extended straight out horizontally to the front, and no cantilevered/bracing.

Dave
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: AdeV on October 03, 2011, 06:55:23 PM
I like the bar code, very avant garde... you should keep it...

Size looks fine - you can always mock a piece up in perspex if you're really not sure about the final size.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DaveH on October 04, 2011, 02:26:16 PM
Looking good Chris :clap: :clap: :clap:

 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 04, 2011, 03:24:10 PM
Cheers guys.

Dave, yes, I`ve had a good think about this, considering if two pillars is enough. The problem is, there are very few places that you can put the pillars without colliding with other moving parts. The glass is just simple picture frame float glass rim of only 1.5" thickness. I pretty confident that two pillars will be enough. The question is, where to put the pillars.

I could put them at 12 and 6 which would look nice and symetrical or the alternative is around 11 and 5 which in my opinion, in glass with 3mm screws just wont look right. The same thought though is that if I put the screws at 12 and 6, the one at 12 will be just above the count wheel and might make it look cluttered.

I hate making decisions...

This is being cut tomorrow, another 12 hours to decide!!!
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 04, 2011, 03:33:51 PM
Clock face idea as it stands!

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/clockface.jpg)

EDIT: Ade, Yes, they are etching the bar code into the glass for me  :lol: EDIT2: Apparently this sort or "modern art" will make this piece worth million alone!
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: CallMeAl on October 04, 2011, 11:01:44 PM
I'm enjoying watching this come together.  Nice work!

Al
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 05, 2011, 07:37:10 AM
Well too late now, the glass went in for cutting earlier, they were going to do it while I wait but sadly I just could not stay so I`ll have to pick it up in a couple of days. I`ve gone with the arrangement above, the holes being drilled for mounting at 12 and 6, we`ll have to see how it looks!

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: sjb on October 05, 2011, 11:08:50 AM
Hi Chris,

I like the clock, great work. :thumbup: Could you not have a couple of arms come off each pillar to add extra support?

Steve
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 05, 2011, 12:58:53 PM
Thanks mate, do you really think I`ll need it?

Is the general consensus that my two screws won`t be enough?
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: sjb on October 05, 2011, 03:37:30 PM
Hi Chris,

I think your M3 screws will be fine, I have a set of wall lights in my dining room where the glass is supported by a similar arangement. A small plastic O ring protects the glass from overtightening the nut.

The idea of the arms on the pillars was just in case you found it a bit wibbly wobbly in a side to side way if that makes sense.



Steve
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DMIOM on October 05, 2011, 04:29:11 PM
.....A small plastic O ring protects the glass from overtightening the nut.......

Actually, if the glass is as thick as Chris says, I think its the M3 that are more likely to fail than the glass

.......The glass is just simple picture frame float glass rim of only 1.5" thickness........

Dave   :coffee:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 06, 2011, 06:51:18 AM
Sorry guys, I missed your two replies! Each sheet wasn`t very heavy, now as rim it will be even lighter but I must admit I am still concerned. Too late now, I pick the glass up tonight so I`m looking forward to mounting it on my clock this evening!! I was very impressed, he told me to bring in a couple of sheets just incase it broke in the process but apparently it went just fine and they have done all three for me!! :-D   I collect them this evening after work so I`ll post photos tonight.

I`ve then got to think about what markings I want on the face. I have considered just simple line divisions but think it might look a bit harsh. Frosted etching would look good and we`ve just had delivery of a laSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSer cutter at work   :)
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: kwackers on October 06, 2011, 09:10:39 AM
light amplification by zimulated emission of radiation?
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: AdeV on October 06, 2011, 09:28:32 AM
You made a typo:

light amplification by ztimulated emission of radiation?

 :lol:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: BillTodd on October 06, 2011, 09:28:50 AM
light amplification by zimulated emission of radiation?

It produces sharper photons than the other method :)
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 06, 2011, 09:54:37 AM
I must be missing something.... I don`t get any of the last three posts  :(
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: AdeV on October 06, 2011, 11:12:41 AM
I must be missing something.... I don`t get any of the last three posts  :(

There's no such thing as a "Lazer".... it's "LASER" aka "Light Amplification by the Stimulated Emission of Radiation".... although these days, "Laser" or "laser" are equally accepted - i.e. the acronym has become just another word.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DMIOM on October 06, 2011, 12:55:21 PM
.....A small plastic O ring protects the glass from overtightening the nut.......

Actually, if the glass is as thick as Chris says, I think its the M3 that are more likely to fail than the glass

.......The glass is just simple picture frame float glass rim of only 1.5" thickness........

Dave   :coffee:

and I was just commenting on the inch-and-a-half thick glass ......   ::)

Dave
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 06, 2011, 06:32:41 PM
Picked the glass up this evening and very chuffed, they had done all three pieces! Looks amazing in person...pictures do it zero justice. Looks plastic on the photos but is clearly glass and has a green edge in the light! I couldn`t be more pleased.

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/glass20.JPG)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/glass21.JPG)

Perhaps a little over the top, but I made a little video as sometimes the video function on this cheap camera gives a more life like shot that the still photos...gives you an idea!



Need to find a dial painter now!

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: saw on October 06, 2011, 06:42:54 PM
Very beutifull, you must feel very proud over your self.  :bow: :bow:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 06, 2011, 06:50:28 PM
Thanks Saw, you have posted some really kind comments all the way through, I appreciate it.

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: sbwhart on October 07, 2011, 12:23:19 AM
Hi Chris

That  looks very good.

Stew
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: spuddevans on October 07, 2011, 02:36:46 AM
That's looking really cool Chris :thumbup: I can't wait to see what it looks like with numbers on it.


Tim
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: kwackers on October 07, 2011, 05:02:55 AM
What about that liquid glass etch acid they use to put registration details on car windscreens? That gives a frosted finish. You could get some stencils cut and use that perhaps?
Design your clock face and use the laser to cut a stencil from it, then either the acid or the more traditional sand blasting (just make sure it's well stuck down) would do the trick.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: sjb on October 07, 2011, 06:10:49 AM

Well done Chris, looks real good. :thumbup:

Steve
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: NickG on October 07, 2011, 01:09:58 PM
Looks fantastic!
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Rob.Wilson on October 07, 2011, 02:04:31 PM
 :drool:  ,,,,, Spot on Chris  :headbang:  :thumbup:



Rob  :)
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: millwright on October 07, 2011, 04:05:33 PM
Nice job Chris, Well done relaxing to watch it working :clap:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: PeterE on October 09, 2011, 05:33:58 PM
Really nice work  :bow:

BR

/Peter
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: doubleboost on October 09, 2011, 05:36:28 PM
Great job Chris :clap: :clap: :clap:
I t makes a nice clock sound :bugeye: :bugeye:
Well impressed
John
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 09, 2011, 05:57:40 PM
Cheers guys.

I`ve got a bit further with it today in terms of planning ahead to finish the dial. I`m rubbish at art and there would be no chance in me painting or making the markings on the dial. About 3 years ago I had a fascination with old vintage fountain pens and was blown away by the work of a Scottish calligrapher. Being in the middle of my summer holidays and having no work to do, at no charge (just cost) I offered to put him together a website, infact, he is now selling a few books and DVDs on it. Anyway..... who better to do some lettering and numbering on my dial than calligrapher - all hand drawn!!! .... it would be nice to think that is karma or at least helpful hands go around in circles  :med:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Stilldrillin on October 10, 2011, 03:18:35 AM
"helpful hands go around in circles"...... I like that!  :clap: ..... And they do! :thumbup:

It's great watching this project developing....  :D

David D
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 11, 2011, 05:19:50 PM
I made a massive step this evening. The daisy wheel has been a source of problems for weeks. Infact, the truth is my first attempt was simply to prove that the principle worked but I`ve added a bearing, changed some dimensions to fit my clock and it has never really be right, often skipping hours or jamming up.

So I went about planning cutting a new wheel. I`ve been buying lots of sheet brass for my project and it is causing a dent in my wallet. With my new found "parting" skills - I stumbled across a 2 3/4" brass bar at the scrap yard, 5" long. Even with enough to hold in the chuck jaws and the waste removed with parting. It is going to be much cheaper parting off brass blanks from this rather than cutting disks from sheet brass. Anyway, I cut myself a blank and then decided the ID must be 34mm to allow the pin wheel to go to full depth in the wheel and the outside diameter 40mm to give enough wall to each "V" to allow the pin to bounce/drive properly.

I`ve cut the other two attempts using a form tool in a fly cutter as I would when trying to cut a gear but this wheel is really thick at 2.5mm!! and there is just too much vibration and material. The plans say to cut by hand anyway so I decided to mark out and cut the notches. I had to work out my angles and then used my CNC divider to mark the points, joining them up with a ruler:

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/ddaisy1.JPG)

I cut each one by hand:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/ddaisy2.JPG)

I then checked all the markings and filed to size which took a good few hours. The pin wheel was binding and I thought all was lost but then realised that the 75deg angle I had used, hadn`t taken into account the radius on the "full" daisy wheel plans - I`m cutting my daisy petals short on purpose as they serve no use other than providing an opportunity for the pins to bind!

So I rounded the corners. It looks more like a daisy now but the plans call for accurate radius on each petal as though the pin is following the tips of the petals. I`ve just rounded mine up to look nice, the important bit is the 75deg notch along with the slight radius of the edge leading into the notch.

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/ddaisy3.JPG)

I then speeded up the process of checking the daisy motion by putting it into the lathe and it seemed to work just fine! I`ve installed it on the clock and it has been running for 3 hours with no problem, which is longer than my previous two attempts! I`ve got a half decent feeling about this one... :ddb:




Just the master weight now....although a clockmaker who has given me a lot of advice doesn`t like my jockey weight and pulley so it looks like I`ll have to remake it! The I`m on to working with the brown woody stuff!!  :dremel:

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: saw on October 11, 2011, 07:02:49 PM
Fantastic good work Chris, you found the problem and you find the solution, that's how it should be done.  :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on October 12, 2011, 02:02:18 AM
Cheers Saw. Things are looking promising as it has been running just shy of 12 hours yet with no issue! I`m off to work now but fingers crossed for the rest of the day!

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: SCOOTER on October 12, 2011, 09:20:37 PM
I have been having a look at all the things posted on this site and i can say i am pleased that i found this, fantastic work.
its nice to see great posts like this. :D 
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on November 26, 2011, 06:17:05 PM
Just a few questions about finishing, in relation to this...

1. How would you "finish" the brass so that it doesn`t tarnish, like the big brass backplate and the wheels and pillars. Is it just case of rubbing them down to a polish with brasso ? I`m just thinking when the clock is running, I won`t really be able to easily strip the clock down to clean in!! Or do I just leave it?

2. My mistake, I didn`t really polish the pin wheel before assembling it, too eager as usual!! Is there any way of cleaning this pinwheel to a good polish or have I had it and it is a case of a making a new shiney one, then assembling?

Chris

Edit, just another quick one. Something as big as the backplate, how would you go about getting a high polish on it? Cloth, brasso and elbow greace?
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: kvom on November 26, 2011, 09:02:21 PM
You can take it to a jeweler and have the brass plated with gold.  Assumes you disassemble. 
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on November 27, 2011, 06:58:47 AM
Yes, that is a really good idea. How will the steel pins be affected?
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: kvom on November 27, 2011, 08:58:13 AM
I think the pins might need to be removed, but possibly not.  The plating is very, very thin (microns).  If that isn't practical then do just the parts that can be detached with screws.  The pin wheel can be left alone or lacquered.
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on November 30, 2011, 10:43:20 AM
Could you guys please give me your opinion...the more the merrier!

Based on what Kvom said in his last message, I visited a chap who does gold plating this morning. I discussed the pin wheel and he said that to get a good finish then it would need a good finish in the first place. He quoted me for the wheel which was just a little less than expected. I then asked for a quote on the 2 wheels and daisy wheel which was also less than I expected. I had some discussion with him and metioned it would be nice to get the whole thing done and he gave me a quote only just a little over double what he had quoted for the 4 parts!! Infact, his quote for the whole lot was only a little more than what I`d have expected to pay for the large back plate alone!

I`m very serious about considering getting this done. I`m just worried it`ll look a bit OTT but my intention is to take the brass to high polish. Taking him up on the offer means the finish will not tarnish and be a hell of a lot quicker than me trying to finish the brass of each piece.

Do you think it would look OK all gold plated? I`m very tempted at the price offered.

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: millwright on November 30, 2011, 11:03:47 AM
Chris,
 the only comment i would make here is that the finish before plating needs to be perfect, the slightest marks will show through. i cant remember the quoted thickness of gold plating but is is thin You cant polish any marks out once its done, and those marks will look worse after plating. for a perfect plating you need a perfect finish. Ive spent hours polishing small parts to have gold plated, then had to polish it off and start  all over again. John
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: NickG on December 02, 2011, 05:11:57 PM
Chris, yeah millwright makes a very good point. I didn't realise this either, but apparently even for chrome plating (which is probably much much thicker) you still need an excellent finish, otherwise all machining marks or even small scratches come through. I often wonder just looking around the house, how do they get such a finish on things like taps before they chrome plate them? Surely can't be done by hand!

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on December 08, 2011, 04:15:27 PM
Hello Chaps

Thanks for your comments. Nick, very sorry I didn`t see your message until now!

I have just updated my gold plating thread on the finishing forum and I am all set for gold plating my clock parts. So i`ll be stripping, polishing and plating soon...pictures to follow.

BUT bigger news is that my case was finished and I collected it yesterday!! A local clockmaker and cabinet maker kindly did the work for me for not much more than the wood cost and I am just blown away with it. He has been giving me advice for the last 6 months and it was great of him to offer to help me out.

It is made from solid oak and the back is made from ash. It is 10" wide and only 3" deep, being about 5 foot high. It is made to be mounted like a synchronome case, about 1 foot off the floor on the wall.  I had to get the glass cut today and I fitted it into the door, taking the photos earlier tonight.  I couldn`t have dreamed for a nicer case in terms of wood colour, design or quality!

I`ll take some more photos in the next week when the clock is mounted on the wall....

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/case.jpg)

 
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: millwright on December 08, 2011, 05:38:03 PM
Nice looking case Chris, its going to look good when its all installed, If you have had that made for not much more than the price of the timber you have got a bargain by the looks of it.
john
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: sbwhart on December 09, 2011, 02:17:10 AM
Wow that's one nice case

  :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:

Stew
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Stilldrillin on December 09, 2011, 02:21:03 AM
Some nice looking woodwork there, Chris!  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: spuddevans on December 09, 2011, 02:41:00 AM
That looks mighty fine there Chris :thumbup: :thumbup: Can't wait to see the clock installed in it.


Tim
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on December 09, 2011, 11:01:11 AM
Yes, thanks guys! He basically did it for the wood plus it bit extra with a bottle of red wine thrown into the mix!  I just wish I had the skill - not only is he a clock maker but his woodworking skills are second to none.

The clock was fully dissassembled last night so it will be cleaned and some of the parts plated like the d(W5).

I`ll keep you up to date and thanks for taking the time to post. I`m very excited about it!!
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: NickG on December 10, 2011, 02:21:04 PM
Brilliant Chris, can't wait to see the finished thing, it's going to be a fantastic piece of furniture and a family heirloom for sure  :bow:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on December 11, 2011, 06:04:29 AM
I don`t know if this one will be good enough for a family heirloom but it would be lovely to think of it as such.

Can I ask for a little more advice please:

I`m absolutely bricking myself now as at some point in the next week I`ll have to drill holes in the back board of this lovely case to both mount it to the wall and mount the clock brass back plate to the backboard of the clock case.

How would you guys mount the brass clock plate to the case back? There is a lot of weight on it with both the weights and the pendulum hanging from it. The safest way would be to drill through the case back and then mount bolts through the entire lot - obviously tastefully done so the screw heads are looking nice on the plate front. BUT if I do that, then the nuts will be on the back and ideally I wanted to mount it flush to the wall. The synchronome I have is mounted in the same way but then has battons on the back pulling the clock off the wall by about 10mm which gives room for the nuts. I don`t think the case back is thick enough to countersink for the nuts....have I any other options?
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: spuddevans on December 11, 2011, 07:44:27 AM
What I would be inclined to do is, instead of using nuts on the back of the case, make up a backing plate out of, say 4-5mm thick steel, then drill and tap holes in the backing plate so as to spread the load over a larger area of the (wooden) back of the case.

Then just mount the clock with bolts/screws through the wooden back, screwed into the backing plate, then cut the threads flush with the backing plate (maybe then remove them and file off another 0.5-1mm of thread to make sure they are not protruding to mark the wall)


In fact, you could then use the backing plate to "hang" the clock on the wall by just adding a keyhole suitable for hanging on a screw in your wall. That would mean that the only holes drilled in the wooden back will be the ones mounting the clock mechanism to the backplate.


Just a couple of random thoughts induced by the combination of an infection and various "man-flu" remedies :lol:


Tim
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Doc on December 11, 2011, 11:56:36 AM
Chris,
 I'm not into clock work so I missed this thread but today I took some time to take a look and I must say I was set back. You have done some beautiful work!!!  I am just blown away by it to say the least GOOD JOB !!
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on December 14, 2011, 06:47:20 PM
Cheers Doc

Tim, sorry it has taken so long to reply!

I didn`t consider a backing plate. In some of the earlier pictures, you can see that the clock back plate has 3 screws, 2 at the top and 1 at the bottom. My current plan is to drill and tap some 1/4" steel plate as you suggested with two threaded holes matching the clock plate. I`ll then clearence drill the clock case and using the 1/4" steel plate, use this to clamp up the backplate to the case back.  I can cut another square piece of 1/4" steel as an over sized nut for the single lower screw to hold it solid.

Screwing to the wall I was planning to do as I had done with my synchronome and drill directly into my solid wall but hide the two screws up in the top left and right of the case which will be covered by the arch of the door. IF I require it, I could put another nicer screw in the bottom middle but I don`t think it`ll need it!

However, do you think it would be stable enough to hang the entire case on the steel plate/strip?  I do see that I could countersink the steel plate, make it slightly longer and then screw the clock through the case onto the backing plate strip already on the wall...this would however mean that ALL the weight of the clock and case would be on the two 6mm screws going through the clock backing plate!!

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: spuddevans on December 15, 2011, 03:00:31 AM
Which weighs more, the clock(including the weight/s) or the wooden case? I've been assuming that the clock is heavier.

I would be more confident of using a backplate that all 3 screw's attach to, then all the mechanism's weight will be transferred evenly to the backplate, thereby introducing (hopefully) no additional stresses that might change the timing of the clock.

Another thing to be careful of, it sounds that you are wanting to fix the backing plate to the wall? Have you thought what would happen if the bottom of the case is pushed to one side (maybe knocked by accident by a family member) if the top of the case is fixed firmly to the wall? It sounds like it could lead to potential cracking or breaking of the case, made more likely by the length of the case.

Would it be better to have the backing plate able to pivot on a single fixing, such as a screw in the wall that the backing plate is hanging on using a keyhole milled into the backing plate? Then if the case is pushed/knocked it can move without causing any damage to the case or clock.


Tim
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on December 15, 2011, 03:55:41 AM
Hi Tim, thanks for your continued interest.

The clock case is solid oak with a just short of 1/2" thick back of ash so the case is pretty heavy. That being said, the brass of the clock and a weight of 1.5kg along with a similar weight pendulum - expect the two are not far apart in weight!

I understand your thoughts about a plate to hold all three screws and agree this would be a better option so I`ll go for this.

Your thoughts about the clock being knocked are interesting. The clock does have a hanger on the back of the case:

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/backcase.jpg)

I was told NOT to use this to support the clock by the maker of the case and just use it for initial fixing....if I`m being honest, I don`t really understand the function of it.
The problem with suspending it from one screw or two screws but on a keyway incase they are knocked, other than my concerns about weight, would be that with the off centre pendulum, it will rock the case and clock and effect the time keeping. If my Synchronome was not screwed to the wall, with a block of 3" dia by 8" still sat at the bottom, it would rock from side to side! This clock I expect wouldn`t be as bad but my thoughts are still that it would need to be solid to the wall. Perhaps a blued screw neatly in the centre behind the pendulum would be needed to support the bottom if knocked?

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: spuddevans on December 15, 2011, 06:04:31 AM
The clock case is solid oak with a just short of 1/2" thick back of ash so the case is pretty heavy. That being said, the brass of the clock and a weight of 1.5kg along with a similar weight pendulum - expect the two are not far apart in weight!

That is a pretty heavy case!! Just as a side note, and you are probably well aware of this, but any fixing holes drilled through the back would need to be made larger than the screws going through to allow for seasonable changes in the wood as it expands and contracts across the grain (it also moves along the grain, but much much less than across the grain) it would be such a  shame to have the back split because of not having the freedom to move.


Quote
I was told NOT to use this to support the clock by the maker of the case and just use it for initial fixing....if I`m being honest, I don`t really understand the function of it.

He probably added it without much thought, then realised afterwards that it wouldn't be suitable for taking the weight of both clock and case.


Quote
The problem with suspending it from one screw or two screws but on a keyway incase they are knocked, other than my concerns about weight, would be that with the off centre pendulum, it will rock the case and clock and effect the time keeping. If my Synchronome was not screwed to the wall, with a block of 3" dia by 8" still sat at the bottom, it would rock from side to side!

I had forgotten about the pendulum being off-centre :scratch: :coffee:

I still wonder if it would rock the case, maybe it would if the bottom of the case was hanging free from the wall, But surely the weight of both the clock and case hanging on a single pivot (ie a screw in the wall into a keyhole in the backing plate ) would not just hang free from the wall. It will rest the bottom of the case against the wall too, wouldn't it? You could even add a couple of rubber feet to the back of the base of the case to both prevent marking of the wall, and to provide grip against the wall from any rocking motion being transferred from the pendulum.

I would be tempted to try this 1st, as milling a keyhole in the back of the backing-plate would not take much effort, and if it works out ok and doesn't rock then you are set. If it proves not to be enough to stop any rocking of the case, then your suggestion below sounds a good one

Quote
This clock I expect wouldn`t be as bad but my thoughts are still that it would need to be solid to the wall. Perhaps a blued screw neatly in the centre behind the pendulum would be needed to support the bottom if knocked?

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: andyf on December 15, 2011, 09:59:03 AM
As an alternative to nuts at the back, could you use woodworker's tee nuts like these?
http://www.screwfix.com/search.do;jsessionid=RL12TqJDjw8xgDMndXPsf0bFp5QhqJndngBSJ8yqQTHftn51JgDy!11161809?fh_search=tee+nuts

If the link doesn't work, google Screwfix and search for Tee nuts.

Andy
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: kvom on December 15, 2011, 03:10:14 PM
My preference would be a French cleat. 
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on December 20, 2011, 06:52:54 PM
OK, well I managed to get the clock up and running and on the wall. I spent hours yesterday evening making two nicer looking pulleys for weight and jockey weight and then screwed them both up in one fail swoop!!! Not best pleased  :Doh:

So I thought sod it, and rigged it all up with the old terrible looking pulleys for the time being. I`ll try and remake the pulleys and weights between Christmas and new year and then it`ll be truely complete.

You`ll notice, hopefully, that it has all been gold plated and in my opinion looks great for it. I`m never very pleased with my work and I must say this looks smashing and it is so difficult to get a good picture of it! The gold is so well polished and reflective that I just get glare but then with such dull winter days, I still need a flash! Anyway, I think you`ll get the idea.

Here goes...hope you like it.

Clock mounted on the wall without weights and pulleys
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/clockincase6.jpg)

I`ve just finished making two brass countersunk washers to replace the large ugly steel washers but I took the picture earlier today:
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/clockincase2.jpg)


(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/clockincase3.jpg)

I think this shows off the gold plating the best! I`m very please with it and a good skill to have learnt and the kit wasn`t much more than I`d have paid to have it plated by someone else.
(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/clockincase4.jpg)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/clockincase5.jpg)

(http://www.raynerd.co.uk/images/clockincase1.jpg)


So things to do/finish:

1. Fit the new brass washers.
2. Blue some of the screws and find some M4 screws that can be blued!
3. Make new pulleys for the weights.
4. Get the new dial numbered.

Feels good to have it on the wall and running!

Thanks to everyone who has replied on this thread to give help or encouragement.

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on December 20, 2011, 07:00:33 PM
Quick video here but the aspect ratio is wrong as I turned the video clip by 90deg which seems to have mucked things up in windows movie maker! It all looks wider than it is!!

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: ieezitin on December 20, 2011, 07:13:22 PM
Chris
I have been watching the build and not posted. So I just want to let you know what a terrific job you have done on this clock. That looks mighty fine it looks refined and well placed where it resides. Great piece of work and you should be proud. In years to come when strangers enter your home and comment on the clock let your wife gently say you made it. Use it as a bench mark for your future projects since its in eyeball view.

All the best  Anthony
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: spuddevans on December 21, 2011, 02:14:02 AM
I think any house would be honoured to have that hanging in it  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

That is really lovely Chris, the gold plating looks fab!!


Tim
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: sbwhart on December 21, 2011, 02:27:23 AM
Excelent Job Chris any one would be proud to have a clock like that with their name on it.

 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


Stew
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: andyf on December 21, 2011, 07:38:54 AM
That's splendid , Chris.

Get a little plate made up, saying "C Raynerd, Bury" like they did on old clocks, so the Antiques Roadshow of the future will know whodunit.

Andyc
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: AdeV on December 21, 2011, 08:15:56 AM
That's a work of art, that is. Very nicely done Chris. Can't wait to see the pictures of the finished dial  :nrocks:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: BillTodd on December 21, 2011, 10:16:01 AM
Excellent  :thumbup:

Bill
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: DaveH on December 21, 2011, 11:52:10 AM
Chris,

Fabulous  :thumbup:  :clap:  :bow:
 :beer:
DaveH
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Stilldrillin on December 21, 2011, 12:10:16 PM
That's lovely, Chris.  :thumbup:

Blummin, well done!  :clap: :clap:

David D
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: NickG on December 21, 2011, 12:44:29 PM
Yeah, well done Chris, really impressive, it looks amazing and the gold plating is great too.  :bow:
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: sparky961 on December 21, 2011, 12:54:49 PM
Maybe hard to tally, but do you know about how many hours you have into it?  It looks like a true labour of love.

-Sparky
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: Rob.Wilson on December 21, 2011, 03:17:05 PM
Well done Chris  :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:  really looks stunning  :drool:   i bet your well chuffed  :headbang:


Rob
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: MadNick on December 21, 2011, 05:03:23 PM
Great piece of work and I admire your attitude.

I like clocks and watches too, Ill certainly follow your threads with interest.

Nick
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on December 22, 2011, 09:29:05 AM
Cheers guys! Many many thanks again. It has been a really enjoyable build and I now can`t wait to finish this off properly and start my next!!

Sparky, hard to guess and I`d quite like to know myself so I`m going to sit down tonight and have a guestimate - I`ll let you know!

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on February 03, 2012, 04:57:42 AM
The clock stopped randomly last night!  :Doh:

That however, is well over 1 month continous running and I must admit, I was prepared for this day!

The line is friction tight onto the main wheel arbour and I believe over time it has smoothed over and is now causing the line to slip. I had a feeling this would happen as I`ve noticed it being easier to wind (slide the line back over in reverse!)

My plan is notch the arbour to a slightly more accute angle so that it catches the line. However, this is now an ideal opportunity to continue working on it and get it truely finished as currently the pendulum still needs polishing and new pulleys still need making. I`ve been reluctant to stop it as I`ve been curious as to how it is running week to week.

I`m busy building a little dividing hear right now but look out for updates on here shortly

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on November 25, 2012, 05:38:01 AM
Another modification if you built or are building this clock.

There is clearly an issue with only one impulse per minue, it is certainly asking for a lot! When that deep tooth comes around and the back pawl drops into it, it needs an extra bit of energy to pull it out of this tooth and you are already running low in momentum! Consequently, my clock has stopped a hand full of times since I last posted in Feb. I`m not necessarly dissapointed by this since I`ve spoken to a number of people who have built the clock with exactly the same issues or can`t get theirs running!

I wanted to modifiy the clock so that the backpawl didn`t have to drop the full depth of the deep tooth when it came around. I consequently modified the bent wire backpawl:
(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/stage16.jpg)

... into a paddle. I took a piece of wire and simply glued a small 3mm x 2mm thin acrylic rectangle to the end. This means that the paddle still locks the count tooth and does its job, but doesn`t have to drop all the way into the deep tooth. Bad pictures, but the best I can get as I don`t want to dismantle it just yet for photos:

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/backpawlpaddle1.jpg)

(http://raynerd.co.uk/wp-content/upLoads/backpawlpaddle2.jpg)

The above pictures show the deep tooth locked up against the new back pawl paddle and how the fact that the tooth is deeper doesn`t effect the drop of the paddle.

I did this modification a couple of weeks ago as I wanted to truely get this clock as best I can before I start a new project shortly. So far, it has been running very well.

Just another note: I couldn`t imagine building this clock without mounting the backstop on an arm as shown in all my photos. Wilding mounts the backstop directly on the count wheel bridge! Mounting it on an arm gives a better angle for the backstop and also allows a second method of adjustment!   Also to mention that the large screw washer and nut coming out of the back of the backpawl is a counterweight, also necessary to make the clock run!

I hope this post helps someone if you try this build or are struggling to get it to run.

Chris
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on February 10, 2013, 03:48:04 PM
Have a chap emailing me who is building this clock and still can`t figure out the mechanism. I`ve taken this video for him and thought it might be of interest so posted on youtube. It isn`t the best as I rocked the pendulum when I opened the door and so it skips I think in the first shot. Still, shows how it all works!

Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: fcheslop on February 12, 2013, 04:44:41 PM
Sorry for not posting during the build
That is a master piece congratulations whats next a Congreve
best wishes
frazer
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: micktoon on February 12, 2013, 07:02:47 PM
Quality Chris  :bow: :bow: :bow: :drool: :drool:, I love the movement , you could just sit and watch that for hours  :)  better than almost everything on tv these days  :thumbup:

  Cheers Mick
Title: Re: Craynerd builds Wilding's - Woodward's Gearless Clock
Post by: raynerd on February 13, 2013, 03:18:11 PM
Mick and Frazer, thanks for the reply! I made this clock a good year ago now but I still tinker with it... To be honest, the weight pully needs remaking.

Mick, the movement is smart and interesting to watch... I seriously do occasionally pull up a chair and watch it for a few minutes. I know, I'm a sado!!

Chris