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Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: AdeV on October 27, 2013, 05:48:36 PM

Title: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on October 27, 2013, 05:48:36 PM
Those of you who may recall my long-drawn out sump saga, may also recall this was destined for a BMW V8-powered Capri. You may further recall that, at the end of last season, said Capri ended up taking a bit of a hammering against the pit wall at Oulton Park.

The Capri is being rebuilt as a space-framed out-and-out special, by Dad. The engine/gearbox (and all-important sump  :thumbup:) survived the crash (even the radiator made it through unscathed!) - but I am moving on. I don't want to have to share a race car again (the feelings of guilt when you crash it are just too much), and I feel that 8 cylinders is not enough any more.

So.... a Jag XJS V12. What could be less sane?

Naturally, the starting point for any sensible build would be either an existing XJS race car, which would need only moderate tinkering to convert to a howling banshee for our championship (which encourages insane engineering projects).



But this is me, so as you might expect, MY starting point is a 1977 road car that's spent the last 13 years stored in a puddle. In Cornwall (which is about 300 tortuous miles from where I live).

Unfortunately, I don't seem to have any pics of the whole car handy, so you'll have to make do with what I've found lying about...


The car (well, the front of it anyway):
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-001.jpg)

Time has not been kind to the interior:
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-002.jpg)

Or the exterior:
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-003.jpg)

Classic British engineering: Stuff it in there chaps, we'll work out how to hook it all up later!
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-004.jpg)

So, full of the joys of spring, I chose the hottest day of summer to go collect. After ~5 hours of driving, starting at very dark o'clock, I arrive onsite at around 9am. It's then that we discover the car is stuck firmly to the spot.... and the winch on my trailer isn't strong enough to drag a recalcitrant cat across the driveway... So; jack up each corner, and set to the brakes with a large hammer. Eventually, all four wheels are persuaded to turn, and the Jag is unceremoniously plonked on the trailer.

No pictures of this herculean effort exist, thank goodness.

5ish more hours later, the Jag arrives at base, and is temporarily dumped outside while room is made for it indoors.

So, here it is, bonnet removed, and that V12 with all of its plumbing on the outside bared for the world to see. At this point, I have no idea if the engine will even turn or not (although I am assured it does):
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-005.jpg)

Time has ravaged the backside alright:
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-006.jpg)

Some time later, after a LOT of sweating, cursing, and spilled vital fluids (both man and machine types), all 3 radiators are removed, the fan is out, and the front of the engine (with, count 'em, FOUR drive belts):
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-007.jpg)

Finally I can get a spanner onto the front pulley - it turns! Hurrah! 1st possible major disaster averted!. It's pretty brown though:
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-008.jpg)
(note the blue tyre spanner on the front pulley, used to test it!)

Inlet manifold/airbox/throttle removed from one side. Nice cam covers, I can see some CNC engraving going onto that...
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-009.jpg)

I have decided that I won't be running any of the original inlet, ignition or exhaust systems, which will make life much easier for me. The Megasquirt ECU originally purchased for the Lexus trackday animal will be re-purposed to run the Jag.

Meanwhile, inside, all is not well:
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-010.jpg)
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-011.jpg)

The other side is even worse!
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-012.jpg)

In fact, some early repair work was required even before the car could be lifted on the ramp, so bad was the rust around the jacking points:
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-017.jpg)

The front looks a bit forlorn, without the mighty V12 lurking within:
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-013.jpg)

Speaking of the V12, it is now stripped of its exterior plumbing, ancillaries and gearbox, and has just received a nice jetwash to get rid of years of crud:
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-014.jpg)
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-015.jpg)
(http://lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/jagxjs-016.jpg)

Next job, stripping down the cams & removing the heads.

I plan to totally dismantle the engine, right down to its core components. The pistons/rods will all be fettled to make sure they're all exactly the same weight. Crank will be dynamically balanced. I may replace the pistons with forged ones (or I may not... undecided as of yet). Heads will be mildly ported/flowed and smoothed to improve airflow. Cams will probably be stock for now, I may get a more aggressive cam ground at a later date, depends if I need more horses or not after the initial build. Valve springs will be replaced (and maybe slightly uprated in anticipation of a wilder cam). Every bolt & stud will be replaced with new. Naturally I will be making a dry sump for it...

This is a long-term project, as you can probably guess. At least a couple of years I reckoned, back in August when I started. I'll keep putting sporadic updates here, as & when interesting things happen...

Meanwhile, this is the sort of sound I want it to make when it's done:



Or this (1st car):




So... on a scale of 1 to insane, how mad  :D
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: BenH on October 27, 2013, 06:02:08 PM
There is nothing about this I don't like, race car, v12, Jag with the special factory foot well lightening. I shall be watching with much interest good luck :)
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Bluechip on October 27, 2013, 06:02:55 PM
Gordon Friggin' Bennet ..  :bugeye:  .... as orphans go, that's a corker .....
 
 
On a positive note, the cable ties on pic 11 look in good nick ....  :thumbup:   :lol:   :lol:   :lol:
 
 
 
If I were you I would keep them ...
 
 
 
Dave BC
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: micktoon on October 27, 2013, 06:22:26 PM
Hi Ade , looking at them photos has reminded me why I do not do much with cars now  lol .................if the men in white coats see them photos you will be getting taken away in a straight jacket and put in a padded cell  :bugeye: ................. You might still end up in a padded cell even if they don't find you looking at some of the photos  :palm:

  However on a positive note I think you can quite safely say you must be ' a glass half full person '  :ddb: and if you can get the engine to sound like that whatever horrible journey you have to take to get there will have been worth it  :drool: :drool:

 I will be watching and willing you along Ade ............Good Luck lad  :thumbup:

 Cheers Mick
 
P.S , I presume you did not part with any cash for that vehicle ? ..............  :scratch:
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: John Stevenson on October 27, 2013, 07:57:07 PM
Cant see anything wrong with the left hand side footwell ??
You don't carry passengers in a race car do you ?
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Brass_Machine on October 27, 2013, 09:35:12 PM
...
  However on a positive note I think you can quite safely say you must be ' a glass half full person ' 
...

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljkmxbLrMb1qesgw2o1_500.jpg)
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Brass_Machine on October 27, 2013, 09:37:41 PM
This is exciting. A Jag race car!

I am anxious to see where this goes. After being on the track for the first time this year in a car, I just can't get it out of my head.

I am jealous!

 :mmr:
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Stilldrillin on October 28, 2013, 02:49:43 AM
Ohhhh........ Ade!!!!!  :bugeye:

What HAVE you taken on?!!!  :palm:



Looking forward to following this. Wherever it leads.......  :D

Good luck!  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on October 28, 2013, 03:26:24 AM
LOL - thanks guys, this is going to be quite the journey...

The most painful bit is already over, getting the engine out was a mare, especially as I'm trying not to destroy anything (some of those parts I won't be using have a resale value...). With a few exceptions, I'm pretty confident I can now strip the engine right down to its component parts & rebuild it so it still works. The EFI/sparks will all be non-Lucas, so should work... There's a few quid to spend yet, e.g. a manual gearbox conversion, and plenty of machining to do (e.g. an adapter plate for the inlet manifold so I can use BMW M3 ITBs - independent throttle bodies)

The bodywork is just a case of welding new metal in where the old has gone holey, adding a rollcage (which, as a fringe benefit, should also stiffen the shell considerably), design/build new front & rear subframes... re-assemble & job done  :lol:


Mick: I am slightly embarrassed to report that I did, in fact, spend some money on the car..... not very much, I might add, but more than zero. I hope to make that back selling some of the bits I don't need...

Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Kjelle on October 28, 2013, 03:31:14 AM
You know, this will be one project I will be following.... It's about as insane as it gets  :nrocks:

Oh, and by the way, what happened to the Granada-Lexus project? Seemed like it could be the ideal tow-car...

Kjelle
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Meldonmech on October 28, 2013, 04:13:22 AM
Hi Ade
              Love the first video, I can see where you get your motivation, wow your going to need it. However you have made a great start, pleased she turns over ok.
                                                                     Looking forward to the next post
                                                                                                                               Good  Luck  David
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on October 28, 2013, 04:16:57 AM

Oh, and by the way, what happened to the Granada-Lexus project? Seemed like it could be the ideal tow-car...


The Lexanada (or Granexus?) project is still on the cards, but on the back-burner until the race car is finished. The reasoning is, the Granada requires a lot of engineering, as it will be going back on the road, as well as a lot of interior work - so in project terms, it's a biggie compared to this; which is basically "weld the bigger holes up, paint over the lot, slap a roll cage & a big engine in & go racing"...

If I had nice deep pockets then I could farm most of the work out & have the thing ready by next season - but that wouldn't give me a) the pleasure, or b) (hopefully) the foundations for a new career in race engine preparation... (computer programming doesn't interest me like it used to). As an example, I could spend £8700+tax+my old cyl heads, for a pair of race-spec heads capable of producing between 400-800bhp... I'd much rather be earning that £8700 by doing the work myself, than shelling it out...
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: RotarySMP on October 28, 2013, 04:31:48 AM
You racer types are never satified. Cars too heavy so you add lightness. Iron worm adds lightness for free, so you start welding bits of steel to it  :clap:

Cool project.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on October 28, 2013, 04:46:37 AM
You racer types are never satified. Cars too heavy so you add lightness. Iron worm adds lightness for free, so you start welding bits of steel to it  :clap:

Cool project.

I tried welding more rust in, but it's really hard. So my plan now is to weld steel in, then let it self-lighten over time... the trick is to use old BL steel, it rusts REALLY quickly  :lol:

The one downside to building an XJS race car is..... I now find myself looking somewhat longingly at a V12 road car..... must resist! Where will the madness end!?
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: lordedmond on October 28, 2013, 05:13:55 AM
As a racer in the past the quote was " between the sheets " :bigeye:


Stuart
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: cwelkie on October 28, 2013, 09:41:49 AM
As an XJS owner I'm glad to see you've rescued another one "from a puddle".  Second wind as a race car is a fitting final act.
(Mine isn't quite as rusty BTW  :)  )
I can appreciate your desire of late to put one on the road but good grief, you've got quite an elephant to eat already!
Grace, Pace and Space ...

Good luck
Charlie
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: flutedchamber on October 28, 2013, 10:45:58 AM
Never had the opportunity to turn a wrench on a Jaguar, but have on many of it's relatives.  Always had a warm spot for British iron. :thumbup:

I look forward to seeing the inside of a V-12
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: JD on October 28, 2013, 05:24:42 PM
Ade, nice project :dremel: replace the tin worm, add a role cage, fettle the engine and go racing, one snag its the little jobs at the end of the project that get up your nose  :bang: late at night or early in the morning when all you want to do is go racing.
I will be watching this thread with great interest.
Break a leg hope all goes well.
John W
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: millwright on October 28, 2013, 05:58:50 PM
Enjoyed the sump saga, this is going to be much better with a whole car to go at. Only one thing better than a
V8 and thats a V12  :drool:  Sounds awsome. Looking forward to the updates Ade
John
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: oldgoaly on October 28, 2013, 06:47:40 PM
I like it!
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Anzaniste on October 29, 2013, 04:14:21 AM
Only one thing better than a V8 and thats a V12  :drool:
John

Oh I dunno! What about a V16?  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Stilldrillin on October 29, 2013, 04:54:55 AM
Only one thing better than a V8 and thats a V12  :drool:
John

Oh I dunno! What about a V16?  :thumbup:


Ohhhh....... Yes!!  :drool:

http://jalopnik.com/the-brm-v16-mk-2-is-nothing-but-pure-aural-pleasure-1273934656?utm_campaign=socialflow_jalopnik_twitter&utm_source=jalopnik_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

David D
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Kjelle on October 29, 2013, 09:12:45 AM
David, you SOB! That clip stood all my hair on end!!! :D

Ade, I'll keep my fingers crossed for this "little" project!!

Kjelle
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: DavidA on October 29, 2013, 12:22:41 PM
...The bodywork is just a case of welding new metal in where the old has gone holey,...

It's the way he says it.

Dave. :thumbup:

p.s.  I have a BMW 518i on my drive that is awaiting similar treatment.  Not for racing though,  just an appropriate 'old mans bumbling about carriage'.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Deko on October 29, 2013, 03:19:29 PM
Thanks for the photos of the (remains) of the bodywork Ade. They are a great reminder of why I sold

my bodyshop business back in 1975. I have done very little work on cars since then.  If folk ask what

I did for a living before retiring I tell them I was a grave digger, then NO ONE wants my services.  :lol:

Cheers Dek. :med:
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: millwright on October 29, 2013, 04:36:56 PM
David what a great link, thanks i had forgotten about that one.
John
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: krv3000 on October 29, 2013, 06:49:49 PM
well dun
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Mayhem on November 03, 2013, 12:52:25 AM
I'll be watching this one with interest.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on November 03, 2013, 05:34:05 AM
Thank for the interest guys - I guess it just goes to show that the old XJS, after a decidedly lukewarm welcome following the E-type, has matured into the classic it always should have been.

The project is temporarily paused while I clear a backlog of smaller projects for the Capri that's being resurrected, some of these will appear in due course in the Gallery (they're not big enough to be project logs), also whilst I wait for the steel to build my proper engine workbench.

I need to make a couple of camshaft location tools first; although this time I'm going for a total strip down, in future I'll need to be able to put the cams back in the same place I took 'em out, so this will be good practice for me.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: mattinker on November 03, 2013, 08:26:24 AM
I had one of those jag cam timing tools in my tool box for years, I don't know what happened to it!

Regards, Matthew
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on September 29, 2014, 12:30:28 PM
11 months later......

Oh, my. As George Takei might say, it's been nearly a year since I updated this thread, which means it's now been somewhat over a year since I bought the old XJS. Predictably, the project has been ambling along gently, with work occurring in fits & starts. The car is now completely stripped to a bare shell - no wiring, no ancillaries, absoluetely zip. All the glass, doors, removable panels are all off.... and now the state of the shell can be seen in all its horror.... and yes, it's pretty rusty. The 2 pics show the chassis rails under the nearside rear arch - this section of chassis will be taking the full brunt of any acceleration and hard cornering, so it needs to be rock solid. Not mostly made of iron oxide, as it is just now...
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on September 29, 2014, 12:32:49 PM
So, several happy (ahem) hours later, and I've scraped most of the underseal off, and used one of those rusty metal bashing air tools to knock out the holes to their full extent.

Pics to follow.

Ah, underseal scraping. Probably the second worst job in the world ever..... the worst being, anything your Mum told you to do when you were 10 years old...
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on September 29, 2014, 12:36:16 PM
Meanwhile, over on the engine bench, the manifold adapters are starting to take shape. As ever, a wax prototype is called into existence, it's cheaper than trying in aluminium, and if the tool paths go a bit awry, you don't damage your cutter.... It's not really visible in the finished item, but the left-hand intake hole actually started cutting half-way down - a 10mm plunge which would have destroyed the cutter bit or the workpiece - or both - had it been aluminium...
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on September 29, 2014, 12:40:32 PM
There's a bit more to do on those adapters yet - there's another "layer" to go on top which will hold the ITBs; the two layers will then be bolted together. The reason for all this malarkey is, the bolt patterns of the Jag head & the BMW ITBs interfere something chronic. A single piece adapter is not possible because the Jag head bolts interfere as well. It's almost like it wasn't meant to be...



...but by 'eck I'll make the damn things fit.


Obviously the final version will have smoothed & gas flowed profiles; depending on the flow testing (bench is on the project list), the final shapes might end up being hand-cut rather than CNC machined.

2 pics showing (approximately) how they'll be installed. Note the new distraction in the corner of one of the pictures....
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: DavidA on September 29, 2014, 01:04:46 PM
Ade,

You've been busy.  It looks as if you have much more welding to do than me.

How are you doing it,  MIG TIG or gas ?

Dave.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on September 29, 2014, 01:17:20 PM
Hi Dave,

At least your car has green on it... mine only has brown...  :ddb:

Welding will be a mixture of TIG and MIG - mig for the easy stuff, tig for any aluminium welding I might need to do. My mig welder is a bit fierce for thin BL sheet metal, so I might TIG some of the body stuff as well, for better control.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: DavidA on September 29, 2014, 01:37:42 PM
...At least your car has green on it... mine only has brown...


Problem is that the green has small live critters living in it.

Like you,  I will be using a mix of welding methods. I used to do a lot of welding,  mostly gas. I did some TIG at the chicken factory,  but it was mostly stainless;  and quite thick (AKA easy).  I do have both MIG and TIG, The TIG is a scratch start.  May change it for an hf machine.

But watching how the guys on these tv reconstruction documentaries I see that they tend to use MIG in a pulsed mode.  Lots of small spots along a butt seam. Doesn't give the metal time to warp.

I'm looking forward to the challenge.

Dave. :dremel:
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Kjelle on September 29, 2014, 11:19:59 PM
Dave, those guys are simulating spot welding... I think it's called "plug welding" in the trade...

Kjelle
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on September 30, 2014, 05:57:45 AM
Dave, those guys are simulating spot welding... I think it's called "plug welding" in the trade...

There are a couple of techniques - plug welds are the large circular ones which simulate spots; but pulse mode is basically seam welding, but leaving gaps. A good welding machine will let you set both the pulse and off durations so you can fine tune the amount of weld on any given length. Personally, I prefer a seam weld to be literally welded end-to-end, but I will manually pulse the machine rather than use its pulse feature, I guess I just prefer to be in control...
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: DavidA on September 30, 2014, 06:18:40 AM
Kjelle,

I know the technique you are thinking of,  and use it a lot.  But it is used where,  as you say,  you would preferably use a spot welder but either can't get to both sides of the job or,  like me,  haven't got a spot welder.  It also needs an overlap at the joint so you can drill a series of holes in one side of the joint.

As Ade says,  the other technique,  the one I will use,  allows you to butt the edges together (leaving a small gap) and then apply a series of quick spots of weld to bridge the gap. I usually place them about an inch apart.  Then either seam weld between them or carry on filling in with more spots.

There are two advantages to this method, First it allows you to retain the original contour (no overlap) and second it greatly educes the risk of the metal warping with the heat.

It's tedious,  but very satisfying when you finish the weld and it is invisible.

Dave
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on September 30, 2014, 07:16:45 AM
OK, so I managed a bit more time on the old girl yesterday. First up, plenty of heat-gun action on the underseal, followed up with a paint scraper - and, where necessary, use of the plastic mallet to help the paint scraper along. This is tedious mud-in-the-eye rust-in-the-hair above shoulder height work which leaves you knackered, aching and wondering if it was worth it after all.... since it tends to reveal even bigger scabs and holes.

The attached photos are what's left of the nearside rear chassis rail as it passes over the rear subframe. The suspension is mounted to the big plug shaped piece that the car is currently sitting on; if I'd left the chassis alone, this area would be taking some massive forces just in normal racing, let alone taking the odd tap or bash.... An MoT man would have kittens if presented with this much rust to look at...
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on September 30, 2014, 07:54:07 AM
The rust is not confined to the chassis either.... the valance/windscreen pillar bases have taken a hit, and there's more grot around the back  where the rear deck attaches to the buttresses. The first photo shows the problem, the 2nd & 3rd show some repair panels going in place. 4th & 5th show the repair panel that used to be covered by the heater unit - obviously it leaked at some time...
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on September 30, 2014, 07:55:05 AM
This is what the Big Cat looks like, once you've taken everything out...
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on September 30, 2014, 07:57:31 AM
Last one for now.... car swarf doesn't look quite like lathe swarf.......  :lol:

For now, I will be carrying on stripping underseal off. When I get completely fed up of that, I will switch to doing more engine work. At least I've no shortage of things to do...

Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Stilldrillin on September 30, 2014, 08:06:01 AM
By 'ek. Ade!  :bugeye:

You've quite a mountain to climb.........  :palm:

Good luck!  :thumbup:

David D

Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: DavidA on September 30, 2014, 02:14:27 PM
Hell, Ade.

Mine is a walk in the park compared with what you have signed up for.

Hope you have plenty of welding wire.

Dave. :proj:
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on October 01, 2014, 08:43:32 AM
Hi David - It looks like a shedload of work (and, well, it is....), but I have the advantage in some respects. e.g. none of the original interior is going back in. Also, with the removal of all the old electrics, a much simplified loom will be required; and hopefully the engine bay will also be a lot less crowded, lacking all the old Jaguar plumbing. I might even have room for a dry sump!
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: shipto on October 01, 2014, 10:34:39 AM
good god I thought i had taken on a big mission repairing a campervan but it was no where near as bad as that I probably would have shifted the problem elsewhere if it had been. good luck to you.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Brass_Machine on October 03, 2014, 12:50:38 AM
Glad to see this hasn't died and you are still at it Ade!

Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on October 05, 2014, 04:25:46 PM
Thanks all! Yeah, this shell is probably little better than scrap - and the more underseal and/or paint and/or gobbo (filler, bondo, various other names few of them polite) I remove, the scarier the story gets. Still, it's not all bad. Today, I actually welded something back onto it!

Unfortunately, I only have the "before" photo on my phone (careless!), I will take an "after" photo in a day or so and post them both up at the same time.

I've owned the car a little over a year now. I always reckoned it'd take 3 years to rebuild, but that was without a major (aborted) move in the middle of proceedings... So, full steam ahead now... I want the shell ready for caging by Christmas at the latest!
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on October 07, 2014, 02:27:26 PM
So... not a lot new under the sun, but I did get photos of the newly welded in panels. Damn, but welding to rust hurts (sparks, t-shirt, pain)... I clearly need plenty more practice with the MIG too...

The photos show a panel which rises vertically from the rear of the floorpan, up to form the front of the rear seat base. The rear seat bottom then runs downwards at 45 degrees (roughly), intercepting another panel which runs horizontally backwards from a couple of inches above the floorpan, which then curves up to allow the rear subframe to sit in place. It's a bizzare affair, but it does make a nice strong triangular section. Nice and strong, that is, until the water gets in & can't get out, at which point it starts eating....

Anyway, I cut the floor pan back, made a cardboard template of the area in question, cut the sheet out & welded it in. The first one got some plug welds in the middle for extra pizazz. The second one didn't because, well, I forgot OK. Too keen to play with the power tools....
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: micktoon on October 07, 2014, 07:01:50 PM
Ade , you deserve a medal for doing this job mate ...............its making me crindge looking at the rust , it always ends up more than you first think and leads to more ....and more .....and more patches  :palm: , one thing for sure you will be a good welder by the time the job is done .
 I wish you all the luck and may you find good steel often  :thumbup:

  Cheers Mick
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: dawesy on October 09, 2014, 11:37:53 AM
Looking good. A tip I use for car body is use a lowish current and pulse the trigger. Also although you normally 'push' mig I then to point the wire away from the direction of travel so the wire goes into the pool. Stops it burning away so easy.
Like I  say though nice job :)
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on October 13, 2014, 07:57:29 AM
Thanks again lads - all encouragement is always appreciated....

This weekend was "tackle the rusty chassis rail" weekend.... so, the panel was prepped:

(http://www.lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/chassis-repair-01.jpg)

There used to be a flange there where 3 panels all met & were welded together; but the flange had rusted to almost nothing. So, I've decided to simply weld a flat plate over the lot, it'll be seam and plug welded in, so should be plenty strong enough:

(http://www.lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/chassis-repair-02.jpg)

(http://www.lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/chassis-repair-03.jpg)

Welded in:
(http://www.lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/chassis-repair-04.jpg)

Grind back the welds, and blow over with some weld-through primer:
(http://www.lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/chassis-repair-06.jpg)

The other side wasn't quite so bad, just a bit frilly around the edges. So a smaller patch was made & welded in:
(http://www.lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/chassis-repair-07.jpg)

Then tittivated:
(http://www.lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/chassis-repair-08.jpg)

Finally, the outer box strip is formed, and welded into place, before being tarted up with a quick spray of the silvery stuff:

(http://www.lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/chassis-repair-09.jpg)

(http://www.lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/chassis-repair-10.jpg)

(http://www.lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/chassis-repair-11.jpg)

(http://www.lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/chassis-repair-12.jpg)
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Divided he ad on October 13, 2014, 11:25:50 AM
Ade.  You're a bloody mentalist!  :loco:    :lol:


You should write a book... Masochism for engineers!  :coffee:



Looks like you're well into the job now, I may have to pop over for a visit?  :beer: :beer: 



Ralph.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on October 13, 2014, 02:09:57 PM
Ade.  You're a bloody mentalist!  :loco:    :lol:


You should write a book... Masochism for engineers!  :coffee:



Looks like you're well into the job now, I may have to pop over for a visit?  :beer: :beer: 


Everyone seems to think I'm crazy for wanting to rebuild this rusty old hulk....  :loco:

Still, who am I to argue? I know I'm crazy  :ddb:



Ralph- you definitely need to pop around for a tea coffee hot beverage cold one, any time. I've got a fridge full of Budweiser & San Miguel. And a pool table.... Oh, and most of a Jag XJS  :scratch:

Floors are going to be a challenge...

(http://www.lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/holy-floor-1.jpg)

(http://www.lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/holy-floor-2.jpg)

If there's a God of Rust - then what remains of this car is a temple to him, and continues to make generous offerings....

(http://www.lister-engine.com/pics/JagXJS/rust-offerings.jpg)

The two rectangular things were an absolute corker of an idea from British Leyland (or whoever the hell invented them)... they sat in the floor pan, inside the "sticking down" bit of the swaged shape. Thus trapping any water which got into the cabin, and giving it maximum time to rot its way out. It worked a charm.... Weirdly, on the inner sills, they got it right and used a thick layer of underseal, to which was bonded a foam layer (which had NO contact with the metal work, thus keeping any moisture at bay), the carpet was then stuck atop all that. It worked a treat - the inner sills are in perfect condition, right the way to the point where the underseal layer stops.... if only they'd slathered the whole interior with that stuff - yes, it'd be a nightmare for me (I am removing it for weight reasons), but it would have saved me 6 months of cutting & welding practice!
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: awemawson on October 13, 2014, 02:29:52 PM
Dunk the whole thing in a vat of citric acid. Go away on a couple of weeks holiday, and when you come back what is still steel will be revealed - probably looking like a fallen leaf that has already gone through autumn and winter, and it now rejoicing in the warmth of spring  :lol:
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: micktoon on October 13, 2014, 05:49:13 PM
Hi Ade ........are you sure that's not Fred Flintstones old car  :lol: :thumbup: ............. I am sure him and Barney had smaller holes in their floor !
   Its amazing to think every car in the scrapyard was in that state , now they all just look like they are parked at the shops, no rust just sensors etc have wrote the car off for scrap.funny old world  :palm:

  Cheers Mick
 
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Divided he ad on October 14, 2014, 05:08:25 PM
I'll drop you a text Ade.

Bit busy at the mo.... But I'll get in touch Soon. Honest  :thumbup:


Still can't believe your welding up an XJS!   :bang:




Ralph.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: DavidA on October 18, 2014, 05:52:08 AM
All this goes to show that virtually any car can be brought back to life.
But , and I think Ade will agree with me on this,  the most important thing is to really look at what you are going to replace before you cut it out. And ask yourself 'is there something I can fix my new part to ?' Just chopping out great swaves of rusty metal will leave you with no reference points,  or anchorage places for the good metal. You have to plan well ahead.

It may be hard, dirty work (and it is) but it is very rewarding.

Dave.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on October 18, 2014, 06:02:53 AM

But , and I think Ade will agree with me on this,  the most important thing is to really look at what you are going to replace before you cut it out. And ask yourself 'is there something I can fix my new part to ?' Just chopping out great swaves of rusty metal will leave you with no reference points,  or anchorage places for the good metal. You have to plan well ahead.


Yep, I definitely agree with that... I'm very nervous of moving stuff around on the chassis; even though I don't plan to use most of the original anchor points (unless absolutely forced to).

Also, you'll notice that all the bits I've replaced so far (including the 2 floor panels that I've not photographed yet) are pretty easy shapes to produce. There's some interesting recurved pieces to come which I've no idea how I'll make.... I'll probably outsource them to the chap next door, who loves doing this sort of stuff.

I also want to widen the back of the car by about 2" each side, to fit wider wheels, but I need to (somehow!) keep that iconic XJS profile. I'm thinking of ordering a few kgs of plasticine and doing the classic car design thing - lump it on there, shape it up; and once I've got it spot on, I'll make a fibreglass mould, and use that to make a carbon fibre panel. Then, either cut out the original metalwork; or just leave it in (weight over the rear wheels isn't necessarily a bad thing on a rear-drive car), and bond the CF panel to the original metalwork. Ambitious, I know.... but I like the idea much more than I like the idea of trying to form it in steel...
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: nel2lar on October 19, 2014, 10:30:54 PM
It is a great thing when something that will never be made again is brought back to life. A Jaguar XJS V12 race car is a special mo-chine. I live in the USA and the cars sold here are not the performance models, they are the cut back standard with all the emissions that rob horse power and performance. Many years ago a man I knew bought a Porsche 911 Targa Carrera while in Germany. He brought it back to the USA and came to the relization it was a race car and not legal in import. The last time I heard it was still in his garage under cover. When driving you could shift 1st, 2nd and 3rd gear and never be able to sit forward.
It had so much torque at 55 mph you could pull it back into 2nd gear and take off like a rocket. Too bad the Jag has an automatic but much nicer when touring. Looking good, keep us up to date I would like to see how it comes out.

On another build, check out this site, it has some 36 pages but it is more than worth it. The site is:
http://forums.aaca.org/f190/construction-continental-mark-ii-model-scale-278354.html

Cheers
Nelson Collar   
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on October 20, 2014, 02:46:23 PM
Thanks Nelson, I do intend to stick a proper manual gearbox in - either an American Tremec (which is a bolt-in replacement for the autobox, apparently); or I might put the Toyota Supra R154 box I already have in (but that will need engineering work at both ends to fit properly); final option would be a 6-speed BMW box, but that's earmarked for the Granada project now... So, we shall see. I'd prefer to get a 'box with straight cut gears, for that authentic race-car whine (and better strength, of course).

Meanwhile.... more of the same old, same old. Find rust, tidy up around rust, make plate, weld plate in, blow over with zinc primer, rinse & repeat....

Pics show: The plates I made up to close the holes I cut in the floor. A new plate on the inside of the cabin which go where the front of the back seats are. I'm not sure what that bit's called. Anyway, it's frilly as hell, so it gets beefed up. Finally, the rear seat back corners are holed on both sides, so a plate is made up to cover the damage. Lacking the properly shaped hammers, my colleague used the back of an impact screwdriver to make the basic curve shape, tack welds were used to keep everything in place while the next bit of corner was made. Just visible in the last picture, is a V-shaped piece which ties the wheel well back to the body of the car...

I haven't started on the floor pans yet....

Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: DavidA on October 20, 2014, 03:07:16 PM
Just decided I need more cornflake boxes.

Dave.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on December 30, 2014, 09:33:06 AM
Since the last update, a couple of months ago, a lot of thinking, planning and general other things which don't involve any actual progress have been going on....

First up, to stay in my chosen class, I am sorely restricted on what I can do. So, widening the car is a no-no, as is fattening and lowering the sills to contain the exhausts. I can't say I'm totally surprised at this, but it's a tad disappointing nonetheless. So.... I have to work out what size wheel I can fit under the arches as they are, and work accordingly, I can still tweak the offsets to fit slightly larger width wheels in the back, not sure what I can do with the front. Time will tell...

So... I've been thinking about engine stuff. Having decided a complete strip down will be essential (if nothing else, the chain tensioner is likely to want replacing), then I might as well go bananas on the engine instead of the body work. That way, if this one bites the dust, I can use the engine in something else...  As it happens, the racing car show is on in just over a week, so I'll be going to that, and I will be tackling people about ceramic coatings, fancy pistons, custom ground cams, etc... I figure a budget of around £5k for the engine should see me getting between 600-700bhp, depending on how well I can make it breathe.

And, conveniently, that brings us on to some actual photo progress :) Having made the lower part of the inlet port adapter plate some time ago, I finally got around to making the upper part of the plate - still in wax, this is just a prototype. As usual, I drew it first in SolidWorks, then imported to CamBam, a spot of fettling in CamBam, make the "G-code" (Heidenhain code actually); throw a wax plate I'd made earlier onto the machine, line it up, and go! Almost unbelievably (not quite... I'd used paper test prints) the throttle bodies fitted right on, and sat nicely over the existing plate. The green one is the new plate, the cream coloured one the old "underplate". The two will bolt together to form a complete piece. I have to make it in 2 parts because there's all kinds of interference going on - the head bolts get in the way; the heads themselves are in the way, the mounting bolts on the under plate are mirrored in the middle of the engine, it's chaos down there. Meanwhile, the BMW throttle bodies all sit in a nice line with all the bolts in the same direction, which just causes problems:

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8656/15960487529_9ca06b9be4_c.jpg)

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8656/16120779136_04dec127fc_c.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7485/15959121148_508ea85aa6_c.jpg)

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8571/15960480919_730faf2fee_c.jpg)

(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7523/15960478879_f9e3d5f042_c.jpg)

Overall height was a concern - but it turns out that the top of the highest point of the inlet is still (just) below the top of the filler cap; so I should have some room under the bonnet. If it's a bit marginal, I'll cut holes in the bonnet to let air in that way. Also, I can shave about 8mm off the combined height of the two plates, and still just about have enough metal to do everything I want to do with it, so that'll be done for the final versions.

I've still got the flywheel to design/make... that will be interesting...
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Stilldrillin on December 30, 2014, 05:19:32 PM
Nice to see more of your waxworks, Ade!  :thumbup:

Wax flywheel, perhaps?   :smart:

David D
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on January 27, 2015, 06:48:30 PM
The time has come to bite the damn bullet and strip the engine down to its component parts for thorough cleaning, measuring, etc.

First off, "B" bank cam, cam carrier, and head is removed. This operation goes surprisingly easily - I was expecting a bigger fight from the head, in the end it virtually popped off all by itself. The interior of the engine is dirty, and has collected a fair amount of debris, kind of what I expected really.  Everything seems to be in relatively good order though, although I have yet to measure everything & check for warpage, etc. A good soak in solvent plus some vigorous scrubbing is bringing the parts up like new (no photos of the clean stuff yet).
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on January 27, 2015, 06:53:11 PM
Stripping "A" bank revealed a bit of a problem... No 2A has had a small washer - about 1/2" diameter - banging around in the combustion chamber for an unknown period of time. The piston has taken the brunt of the beating, but there's some damage to the head as well. Hopefully, it's all repairable with a TIG welder, some filler rods, and someone with a decent surface grinder.

Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on January 27, 2015, 07:05:43 PM
So... strip-down wise, there's not a lot left. All the studs came out - eventually, and in one piece - unlike my Halfrauds stud extractor set which balked at the 2nd head stud! Thank goodness for the rather more robust Draper unit, although that has its frustrations; it has a tendancy to come apart into its constituent components as you try to free the now jammed in stud. Hey ho.

So... sump to come off, oil pump, rods & pistons out, main caps off, crank out, liners out, and then we can begin cleaning & measuring the block...

What is coming out: 5.3 litre spec liners, pistons, rods, crankshaft.
What's going in: 6mm bigger liners (96 vs 90mm), same rods, new shorter pistons, 6 litre crankshaft.

The crankshaft will give me an extra 8.5mm stroke, the bore an extra 6mm diameter, all told I should end up with an engine that displaces 6.8 litres (416in3) and - if I can get the volumetric efficiency up where I need it, I should see north of 600bhp and 480lbs/ft torque...

There's not a lot of machining involved in the next bit of the engine build, but there is quite a lot of expenditure (the pistons are the big ticket item, and I expect them to cost around £2000 (US$3000)), which is going to slow me down a bit...
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: vtsteam on January 27, 2015, 07:56:19 PM
Ouch, and it would be a hardened spring washer, too. Looks in perfect shape!  You're doing a great job here. Nice to see this car coming back to former glory. Well surpassing it at some point.  :thumbup: :bow:
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: dawesy on January 28, 2015, 04:28:17 AM
Ouch. Hope it's all repairable.
On the cleaning front I use Swarfega oil and grease remover (£9 for 5ltrs at B&Q)
Works wonders on baked on grime and doesn't really smell of anything unlike the solvent based products
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: edward on January 28, 2015, 05:14:43 AM
I am probably being totally ignorant of something obvious here, but how in hell does a spring washer end up inside a piston - has it been there since build?

Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: RussellT on January 28, 2015, 05:27:29 AM
Well if there are washers under the heads of air filter housing mountings they can be sucked in.

It happened on one of my cars (a long time ago) on the A1(M).  It made a dreadful noise.  I got it towed off the motorway and took the head off on a garage forecourt to extract the washer.

I'm following with interest Ade.   :clap: :thumbup:

Russell
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: edward on January 28, 2015, 06:27:33 AM
interesting. I'm amazed there is space for it to fit, but then I guess for good gas flow the spaces should be big!

Something about the A1(M). Years ago the timing belt on my old faithful 1992 Astra estate went ping while I was in the outside lane there - a real brown trouser moment as it was busy and I had limited momentum!!

Ade - you are mad, but in a good way:)
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on January 28, 2015, 08:23:06 AM
The pre-HE V12 actually has quite a large space (0.150" at TDC) between the top of the piston and the head, so there's room for the washer to sit in there & fly around the place. All the dings are half-moon shaped, so it's obviously when it's landed edge-on that it's done the damage.

Given that the heads were relatively easy to remove, I'm thinking they've been off before - probably not that long ago in mileage terms. I'm also thinking they re-used the head bolts, judging by how well held in they were by comparison... I imagine the washer got in the last time any serious work was done on it. If you leave the inlet manifold on on a normal Jag, it's almost impossible to get anything into the cylinders; if you take the manifold off, it's almost impossible to keep stuff out!

Apparently, Jag V12s are prone to dropping valve seats if they're overheated (being an interference fit), but because there's so many cylinders and so much sound deadening in the cabin, all that can be heard is a faint tinkling sound - even though the seat is being beaten to a pulp by the valve...
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Stilldrillin on January 28, 2015, 05:30:16 PM
Reminds me, of my son's first serious car.

A small Seat turbo, hatchback. Only 250 made. (So the story goes).

The little thing flew, 50% of the time. The other 50%, it was grumpy/ lumpy/ orrible.  :scratch:

Four months into his ownership, we finally discovered, an air filter sticker was floating about, inside the manifold!  :bang: :bang:

Enjoying the saga, Ade. Good luck! :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: jatt on April 04, 2015, 07:20:19 AM
So glad I was able to retrieve a washer I dropped into the intake of my tractor.  Naturally it fell into the head. :doh:

the $ I invested in a camera on a stick with a magnet on the end was money well spent!!!
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on May 27, 2015, 08:15:40 PM
Progress on the race car has, as with all my projects, been painfully slow... however, I've recently made up my mind that instead of loafing about the house at the weekend, it's time to blooming well get on with it!

So.... Round Tuit firmly in mind, I've made some more patches to hide/replace the worst of the grot. The left-hand sill is mostly filler (it's taken a right whack), so that's all coming off & new metal going in. Inside sills are getting reinforcement where they've rusted away at the bottom. New floor pans will follow once the inner & outer sills are stuck together, and the weaker metal replaced.

A simple patch on the inner wing, hiding a massive hole. I'll weld it up better on the inside some other time:
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7772/18174007932_09c79640e6_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tFYxom)

Inside the inner wing, a large patch replaces the completely dissolved metal that used to be in its place. Again, this needs more work - I need to drill some holes in the middle & weld the inner & outer metal together. Also, on the other side, I really need to weld the reinforcing turrets to the new patch; this is where the weight of the front of the car gets transferred to the front suspension. The other side looks the same.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7788/18178737731_f90ee32eb2_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tGoMoB)

Inner sill is pretty badly knackered (both sides, pretty much front to back).
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8831/17554998954_a9a9ce05d8_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/sKgXzL)

A reinforcing section is made, this bonds to the good metal higher up the inner sill, and re-forms the flange the outer sill & floor are welded to. Additional pieces will be made in sections, as I remove the outer sills:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7774/18151103426_42f29ca29d_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tDX9F5)

Access is a pain, the ramp's in the way, etc. Here it is plug welded on, with a few tacks around the edges. I'll go around & seam weld it later. Probably.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8819/17991383799_b3ae7b9305_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tpQxAp)

Trial fitting the hand-bent replacement sill (front half). Fits pretty well! I can get away with it not being perfect, as it's a race car not a show queen.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7780/18173997472_e25bf71af3_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tFYuh1)

The bottom of this reinforcing member had dissolved away entirely. Repair is a simple folded piece, plug welded to the original. When I fit the sill, I'll drill a couple of holes so I can plug weld through the sill to the bottom of the reinforcement plate.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7785/18178741671_67f50e730a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tGoNyx)

The "steps" are badly rotted. Here a decent sized piece has been cut out ready to be replaced:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7761/17555004694_80e77dd5d1_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/sKgZhJ)

Old, CAD template, new:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7790/17989894010_618d233c97_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tpGUJo)

Thank goodness for the metal folder! Once the metal was cut out & the fold lines drawn, it took about 5 minutes to fold up. Here it is welded in place:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7735/18151109256_306609dc6c_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tDXbpA)

The other side of the car is almost as bad, but I should be able to save most of the outer sill. The LH sill must have had 10lbs of filler in it!


Next week.... more of the same. I'll probably not bother photographing most of it as it's just the same old same old. Unless the piece is really weirdly shaped, or I'm especially proud of it or something   :coffee:
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: vtsteam on May 27, 2015, 08:22:24 PM
Ade, really interesting to watch.  :thumbup: What does your metal folder look like?
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on May 27, 2015, 08:36:36 PM
Ade, really interesting to watch.  :thumbup: What does your metal folder look like?

Cheers mate, much appreciated :)

This is the wee beastie:

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5608/15333095289_a50097c50a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pmW82T)

It's an Edwards folder, 4ft across, and it fell over after 20 mins in my possession (oops!). Fortunately, being made of sterner stuff than the tarmac it landed on, no damage was done!
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: mexican jon on May 28, 2015, 02:33:34 AM
Ade, really interesting to watch.  :thumbup: What does your metal folder look like?

Cheers mate, much appreciated :)

This is the wee beastie:

(https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5608/15333095289_a50097c50a_b.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/pmW82T)

It's an Edwards folder, 4ft across, and it fell over after 20 mins in my possession (oops!). Fortunately, being made of sterner stuff than the tarmac it landed on, no damage was done!

 :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: awemawson on May 28, 2015, 02:45:15 AM
Ade, you're a braver man than I taking on that colinder of a car  :bugeye:

Amusing to see that you have the same folder - good aren't they ! Was using mine yesterday to replace some covers on a "Post-Ogg" stock fence post pusher
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: vtsteam on May 28, 2015, 09:23:03 AM
Oh, click! Thanks Adev. I like the term "metal folder" better than "brake". Much more descriptive and less confusing in an automotive context!  :beer:
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: DavidA on May 28, 2015, 11:04:57 AM
VT,

A folder and a brake are really two different things.

The folder is as depicted and works,  as you probably know,  by 'pushing' the metal over with it's rotating edge.

The brake,  more correctly known as a press brake,  creates the bend by pushing the metal down into a groove or angle.

Each has it's advantages.

Dave.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: vtsteam on May 28, 2015, 11:23:20 AM
Sorry, didn't know David -- I'm not an experienced sheet metal guy, except with an inappropriate hammer!  . . .thanks for straightening me out! 

So to speak........
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: DavidA on May 28, 2015, 01:05:46 PM
No worries,

My own bending system is two angle irons and a hammer.

Dave.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on May 28, 2015, 04:05:13 PM

The brake,  more correctly known as a press brake,  creates the bend by pushing the metal down into a groove or angle.


I'd like a press brake too, you can do very accurate & repeatable angles with one, plus you can put folds in much closer together than my folder (although I can get two folds within 1/2" of each other on the folder, if I take the front angle plate off).

Anyone know why it's called a "brake"? The press bit I can understand...
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on May 28, 2015, 04:10:28 PM
Ade, you're a braver man than I taking on that colinder of a car  :bugeye:

Amusing to see that you have the same folder - good aren't they ! Was using mine yesterday to replace some covers on a "Post-Ogg" stock fence post pusher

The car is a religious experience - it's very hol(e)y!   :lol:

To try to get it back on the road would be, I think, an exercise in futility. However, it only needs to look decent & not be shedding flakes of rust in the scruitineering bay to pass as a race car. I've also recently discovered a thing called "car dipping" - a sort of spray on plastic paint which you can peel off later, I think I can hide any number of sins under that stuff.

The folder's fabulous. I ended up making a deal with a bloke from Newcastle to bring it to me - poor bugger, his van broke down 1/2 mile into the journey, so he had to get his other van which was stuck in "limp" mode - I think it took him 9 hours to get to Merseyside... and another 9 back. All for £100 delivery charge. His Mrs didn't look to pleased about the whole do either.



Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on May 31, 2015, 06:33:48 PM
A little more progress this weekend...

First, the outer sill was fully removed & the inner sill reinforced along its length:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8895/18321435605_b051031315_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tV19uM)

Then the entire length of the "steps" were replaced; this seemed to be easier than faffing about making little patches for the many holes.
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/385/18317527292_0a1ae7dcf7_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tUE7G5)

Finally, a good dose of high-zinc primer to cover everything up, and hopefully slow the tide of rust in the future.
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7797/17700831823_4bd6a8457c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/sYaoBz)

First half of the outer going into place:
(https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8792/18322921071_3546c356e0_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tV8L5g)

I'd already made a second piece of sill, but it turned out to be completely the wrong shape. Rather than try to fix it, I made a new piece; managed to get the two halves to almost exactly the right shape & size, although it turns out there's a bit of a "kink". Oh well... it'll look OK in matt black :)
(https://c4.staticflickr.com/8/7791/18322939681_29a0d9a2cc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tV8RB8)

Once the sill is completely seam welded, I can either start work on the wheel arch, or do the sill on the other side. I'm going to try to save most of that one, assuming it's not full of gobbo as well.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: micktoon on May 31, 2015, 06:50:12 PM
Ade, hats off to you for not just giving up on the project. I remember rebuilding a Ford Fiesta years ago same sort of thing , sills , patches everywhere, wings , front panel, rear arches etc etc etc. When I was putting it back together I went to the scrapyard for some part or other and found several Fiesta's that were almost perfect compared to the pile of Sh**e I had spent weeks on lol, it would have been quicker to have rebuilt my good bits onto one of them.
  One thing is for sure , you will be good at making patterns and welding in funny positions by the time its done  :thumbup:
  Keep up the good work.
             ........Nice folder by the way  Cheers Mick
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: RotarySMP on June 02, 2015, 05:20:43 AM
So you are doing all this with the rustbucket chassis up on a hoist. Does that mean you are having to do half of the welds overhead? I bet a rotisserie starts looking really tempting about now.

Thanks for taking lots of photos and sharing them. I think you have a lot of followers on this project.

Mark
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on June 02, 2015, 07:00:50 AM
Hi Mick - yeah, I probably should have started from a less rusty base point... the problem is, try to find a cheap XJS that isn't rusty! There's bugger all for less than £1,000, and anything under around £5,000 usually has signs of grot. Looking at the wheel arches, I think I'm going to need repair panels for those, they are very badly rotted & full of filler.

So you are doing all this with the rustbucket chassis up on a hoist. Does that mean you are having to do half of the welds overhead? I bet a rotisserie starts looking really tempting about now.

Thanks for taking lots of photos and sharing them. I think you have a lot of followers on this project.

Mark

Mark - yeah, and the ramp is getting right in the way doing these sills. I don't actually mind overhead welding so much, except when it sets what little hair I've got on fire...

The real irony is, I actually bought a rotisserie (or spit) for another car.... just the other day I was thinking about assembling it for this one.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: vtsteam on June 02, 2015, 10:28:48 AM
I was confused about the "rotisserie!" All is clear now.

The only kind I'd heard of was used to cook meat, so I was kinda wondering why Ade would, in any way, be tempted by a rotisserie after welding overhead!  :lol:
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: kayzed1 on June 21, 2015, 03:28:08 PM
Ade, the lad ( tim ) of Tim and Tony Re: the gt40.... has a brand new old stock gearbox for one of them there Jags of yours he says if you intend to stay Auto give him a call ( or Tony if you do not have his number ) re a price...also if you have an FI car he has all the factory manuals for the injection and wiring to said stuff.
Lyn.

 PS: he says a firm in America do a conversion kit to make the gearbox torq drive from start, and manual on the move...
PPS: he also has a brand new motor that gearbox was stuck to... :thumbup:
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on October 13, 2015, 07:42:41 PM
A little more progress made on the shell this weekend just gone... I finally bit the bullet and cut out the rotten passenger floor:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5688/22115491825_b212756465_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/zGgFec)

Rather than make a replacement, as was my original plan, expediency and a few shekels were the order of the day, and a replacement panel was procured, and - following some fettling with a large hammer - fitted:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/604/21494376463_1f3698a242_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/yKoigD)

It's only really tacked in for now, I'll weld it in more firmly at a later date.

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/563/21494374893_a5af252cd1_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/yKohNz)

Now I just need to re-make the strengthening/seat mounting box which goes across the car. I'd marked out & folded one up, but I accidentally made it an inch too tall... so this weekend's job is to reduce it to the proper height, make the appropriate shapes in it, then weld it in. Stay tuned!
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: sparky961 on October 13, 2015, 08:33:48 PM
Do you think the weight of metal that's rusted away will offset the additional weight of the welds and overlaps of the sheet metal?  Or maybe with that monster of an engine you plan to drop in there it wouldn't matter if you welded two cars together....

I don't know if I've already mentioned this, but I had the opportunity to drive a 1986 XJS (6L V12, if I recall) somewhere around 1997 when I was working in the automotive trade.  Its the only test drive that sticks in my memory from that era.  Smoother than any car I've ever driven since.

Nice to see that you're giving this one a new lease on life.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: vtsteam on October 14, 2015, 10:13:53 AM
I really look forward to additions to this thread. Up here with all the salt on the roads and long cold winters, autos die from rust, much more than mechanical wear. It's encouraging to see what can be done, and how it is done.

I have one bad spot on my Mazda pick up truck I have to attend to this month in a frame web behind the rear leaf attach point. Basically the extension that goes to the bumper. It's in a spot that is hidden by the spare tire, and so stayed wet and trapped moisture. The rest of the frame is fine. Nothing as bad as the Jag, but still, nothing I've done before. Good to see photos!
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Divided he ad on October 14, 2015, 02:20:55 PM
I thought you'd have had it on the track by now Ade!?   :lol:

Looks like fun..... Fancy a similar repair to a Cosworth?  (O/S/F floor  :(   )


  :thumbup:


Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on October 15, 2015, 11:27:02 AM
Thanks for the ongoing encouragement, sometimes it's much needed.

I'm not sure why it's not on the track yet. Apparently I must have been asleep for almost a year, as I seem to have made little progress, yet I'm not entirely sure where the time's gone. I have managed to completely disassemble the engine, clean most of the external parts, and some of the internal ones... I've also gathered 3 other spare engines, stripped one of them (to replace the damaged head from the original engine), I still need to make my "feet" and the cylinder liner puller so I can get a piston out of the seized engine. ARP are currently looking through their back catalogue to see if they do any studs which will fit the engine - if not, then it's going to be a custom order (=£lots). I think I only need bearings & piston rings to re-assemble the bottom end.

I'm really going to try to put my back into it now, I'd like to be on the track before the end of next year, which is going to be a tough call financially & in time terms. The good news on the shell is, I've got one wheel arch to rescue, a few more chassis patches, the driver's side floor & sill to do, and the new boot (trunk) floor, which will be moved to accommodate a rear diffuser. A few internal patches and a couple of repairs around the windscreen should see it ready for paint, roll cage and "glass" (Plexiglass apart from the windscreen).

Ralph - check your PMs.

Sparky - I'm not entirely sure about the weight thing. The floor was remarkably heavy, much heavier than the rusty crud which I cut out... I'm not sure if it's thicker metal than the original, or just that rust is so much lighter than steel (so why do rusty boats sink then, eh? ;)) My target weight (which I won't get anywhere near to begin with) is around 940-960kg (the class minimum), realistically I should get to about 1200-1300kg dry this time around, when I start replacing outer panels with carbon fibre I'll save a bunch of weight, especially that bonnet (hood). If the XJS was an '86, it would have been the 5.3 litre HE model; the 6 litre was fitted from about 1994. Jaguarsport (an offshoot of the TWR/Jaguar partnership of '82-'83) produced the 6 litre intially, because most of the parts were the same it could be produced on the same production line as the 5.3. Major changes were the crankshaft, pistons (& rings presumably) and head gaskets. Everything else was pretty much the same.

Steve - rust. Aaah, rust. You've got to love it, otherwise it'd be soul destroying.... It's a bitch to weld to though, sparks and lumps of white hot metal flying everywhere. I keep setting things on fire trying to weld to rust... If it helps: Get the area as clean as possible, a wire brush on a grinder is a great tool, as is a flap disk (not sure if the US has a different term for those). Bare metal makes life MUCH more pleasant when welding. Depending on how big your welder is, you may need to use the "thin metal technique", which consists of lots of brief welds (tack welds really), start 6" apart, then 1/2 way between each weld, then 1/2 way again, until they're virtually touching; then you can generally fill the gaps without blowing holes everywhere.

Kayzed - apologies, I didn't spot your post earlier; I'm going with a manual 'box (Tremec most likely as that fits my clutch), 5-speed. The clutch is a 4-plate Indycar item (should be interesting in the pits...) and is only 4.5" diameter. I'll have to have a custom flywheel ~5" diameter, it'll be a 2-part flywheel because the clutch pressure plate would be running on the bolt heads otherwise, which reduces the surface area by an unacceptable amount. I've got 4 engines & keep a regular eye out for more... ironically I've actually run out of places to put them now!
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: vtsteam on October 15, 2015, 07:41:02 PM
Thanks Ade!
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: DavidA on October 16, 2015, 06:30:48 AM
AdeV,

If it's any consolation, my BMW hasn't made much progress either.

I seem to either be back at work or there are other things taking priority.

Now the garden is closing down for the winter I may get on with it. But, of course, it is also getting cold.

A guy down the road has just bought a similar car. 'C' reg' . Maybe that will give me the incentive to get back into my overalls.

Stick with it.

Dave. :wave:
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on October 25, 2015, 07:35:40 PM
Thanks Dave - I've only got 10 months left of my original 3 year plan.... so I need to get cracking with it now.

In that spirit, I've managed a little more progress this weekend...

First, folded up the new bracing box/seat mounts. Then cut the bottom off & did it again as I'd managed to make it an inch too tall (oops).

Pics show the old box next to the new (the old one was chopped up when it came out):

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5774/22418672736_0ae6404d7f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/Aa4ymh)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5634/22256948658_d72b704e99_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/zULFq7)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/575/22431377942_9c802cd980_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/AbbFay)

In place, ready to be welded in:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5730/22256693300_d3cf6fc49c_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/zUKnvo)

In relation to the original on the other side:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5628/22431381622_0e2867f713_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/AbbGg1)


Next I decided to tackle the boot. As we can see, it's a bit frilly around the edges:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/730/22285389010_43f6a932fc_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/zXhrK1)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/705/21850624574_273350f4f2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/zhSaqs)
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/654/22459996052_0307ea3624_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/AdHmkf)
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5784/22473359015_3dc0110742_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/AeTQFa)

After some plasma-cutting, grinding, 3 cutting disks, a bit more grinding, another cutting disk, etc.:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5652/22484343891_dcc2b92993_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/AfS96z)

I'll make a nice new aluminium floor for it, but first I need to get hold of the fuel tank I'll be using, so I don't set the new boot floor too high. It'll be higher than the old floor as I plan to leave plenty of room for a nice big diffuser :D

There's still a few holes to fill before I fit the new floor...

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/706/22447349506_f1b6a26146_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/AcAwXm)
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: krv3000 on October 25, 2015, 07:49:45 PM
and I thort repairing your D.T.I's was a challenge  :dremel:
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on October 25, 2015, 08:08:44 PM
and I thort repairing your D.T.I's was a challenge  :dremel:

Heh - There's no way I could do what you did to my DTIs, they're just too darn small. I end up losing all the springs and tiny screws. The car has the advantage of being nice and big, ideal for my meat hooks. Of course, the downside is, one ends up coated from head to foot in cr*p - I looked like one of those black & white minstrels when I got home this evening!
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Manxmodder on October 25, 2015, 09:06:52 PM
Ade,will you be racing under the name of 'Team Ferous Oxide' (TFO) by any chance?  :) :)

 It's not yet as legendary as TWR Jaguar but I can see it catching on.
.......OZ
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Ross on October 25, 2015, 09:56:51 PM
Could you not get one thats more of a challenge?

Will be following closely fantastic work so far
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: Kjelle on October 26, 2015, 01:11:33 AM
Nice work, Ade! By the way, the goldsmith that made a ring for my wife, was 6'4"+, and had/has hands to match... So those are not a hindrance!

Kjelle
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on October 30, 2015, 03:15:21 PM
Thanks for the ongoing encouragement guys! Much appreciated.

Oz - Haven't chosen a team name yet, but I like the theme of yours... maybe Rusty Bucket's Racing Rides?

Speaking of which... check out the chassis member at the back:

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/755/22587150396_106095a2ea_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ApX3Tw)

And now look how shiny it is!

(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/583/22587153126_557e5cc91f_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/ApX4GA)

It's not a spectacularly good fit, nor is it particularly brilliantly welded in, but the paint hides multiple sins, and I couldn't really get the welder in there anyway.
Can't wait to see what the underseal's hiding on the other side!

I've also seam welded the floor on the sill edge, just need to grind it flat, grind back the welds in the sill, then I can undercoat those.

Tomorrow/Sunday: More plating and welding!  :Doh:
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: RobWilson on November 01, 2015, 01:49:47 PM
Seeing all that bodywork/welding brings back a few memories of my old 2.8 Capri  :palm:

Keep at it Ade  :thumbup:



Rob
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on November 22, 2015, 06:50:31 PM
There's not been a lot more visible progress, other than yet more patching and stuff. I've decided the nearside rear wing is toast - it's full of filler & the metal behind it is dented to death, the arch is falling to bits... so I've ordered a replacement panel from a breaker (at huge cost - the same price as the whole car!), just waiting on that to arrive now. Once that's fettled into place, I can swap to the driver's side & start patching the holes there... (note: If you're reading this outside of the UK/Eire, Australia, NZ, Japan, and a couple of other places - remember that the driver's side here in the UK is the other side of the car!)

So... whilst waiting for the parts to arrive, I've embarked on a bit of design work for the engine. Since I'm not using the traditional distributor, my original plan was simply to delete this, and build a new valley plate to house my 12 coils. Most modern petrol engines use coil-on-plug; and since most are also dual over-head cam, the plug (with its looong nose), goes between the two cams. As this engine is single OHC, this is impossible, so the plugs are off to one side, and there's no room for the nose. In fact, there's no room for the coil on top either - so mine will be coil-near-plug, the next best alternative.

Here's the original valley plate (so called because it sits in the "valley" between the two banks of cylinders):

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5755/22589515303_f43ca6e0e4_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/AqaaTM)

And here's my alternative design. The inset is a Mazda RX-8 coil (not to scale), I'll be using 12 of them:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5753/22852881539_f5ca69c3e8_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/APqZuX)

(obviously, I'll be using green aluminium.... (c) Brian Rupnow (with apologies to Brian)

And here it is fully populated:

(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5825/23194711736_4d86a5f9b1_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/BkCXH3)

I may add some upstands to help support the higher level coils... or I may just beef up the mounting posts somewhat. Milling that lot out of solid will be a horrendous waste of material, so I'll just make spacers to suit.

The empty middle section will contain the nub end of the old dizzy drive, with a single tooth wheel & sensor built in, that will give me the cam position accurately enough to sync the ECU with the engine. All that will be visible will be an aluminium cap with some wires coming out. Straddling that will be the new throttle tower, which will convert the pull of the throttle cable via bell cranks to the push/pull motion needed to open the 12 ITBs. More on  that later.

I have a slight problem with the dizzy drive mounting... it has to be in exactly the right place and tipped at 6 degrees from  the horizontal to match the original, and I'm not sure how to measure it up. Please see my question in "How do I?", which I'll be posting in a few minutes.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: chipenter on November 23, 2015, 03:34:38 AM
Iff youre mill table is long enugh pack the lower side up , untill a clock guage reads zero on the distributor mount , and skim off the rest , mount your plate and spotface for the bolts .
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: RussellT on November 23, 2015, 05:02:13 AM
Hi Ade

If you're using a single tooth wheel to get the cam position isn't there an easier way to achieve that - for example a sensor in the timing chain/belt cover sensing a lump on the camshaft wheel - or a sensor detecting something on the end of the distributor drive.  Using the distributor sounds over complicated, difficult to machine and heavier than necessary.

Russell
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on November 23, 2015, 11:39:02 AM
Hi Jeff - good post, that got me thinking along the same lines as Sparky over on the "How Do I??" thread. I can use a DTI on the existing plate to set the angle up, and then drill/bore the hole in the right place & at the right angle on the new valley plate.

Russell - there's nowhere "tidy" to fit a single-tooth wheel. Obviously the cam housing is full of oil, and unlike (for example) the Lexus which has an external cam drive (because it's belt driven), the Jaguar is chain driven & thus immersed in oil. The next shaft of note is the dizzy drive shaft, which I can't avoid using (it's driven by a sprocket at the based of the "V", where you'd find the single cam of a pushrod engine). This is also bathed in oil, being just above the thrashing crankshaft. The dizzy drive is accomplished with a helical gearset at the end of the shaft, which pushes vertically(ish) up out of the valley plate.

I plan to use that shaft, but I'll re-create the bottom of the dizzy (only smaller) and simply mount my 1 tooth wheel on the shaft, the sensor in the housing, and a small cap to go over the top of the lot. It should only end up around 2" diameter, maybe less. The main reason for the 40mm hole is to fit a ball bearing race inside, on which the shaft runs.

I'll get it all drawn up this week so you can see where I'm going with it.
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: chipenter on November 23, 2015, 02:05:48 PM
Iff you skim off the mountnig lugs , your vally plate will be at 6 degrees and the distibutor square to it .
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: xjr5006 on November 25, 2015, 03:21:18 PM
Before you go any further the last of the V12s X300? has a coil pack valley plate and 2 x 6 pack coils units. My friend in Germany couldn't find one so made his own
but here in the UK you might be luckier.
http://www.jaguarforums.com/g/album/2795059

 
Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: AdeV on November 25, 2015, 04:42:11 PM
Before you go any further the last of the V12s X300? has a coil pack valley plate and 2 x 6 pack coils units. My friend in Germany couldn't find one so made his own
but here in the UK you might be luckier.
http://www.jaguarforums.com/g/album/2795059

Hi Don,

That's a lovely valley plate alright, but I'm guessing those coil packs fire all 6 plugs at once? I'm looking to run fully sequential sparks  - probably overkill I know, I could run 1/2 as many coils and simply run 2 plugs off each coil; but I'm a masochist and want my 12 COPs.... Also, I still need some way of sensing the cam position, and to my mind the dizzy drive is still the most obvious option, per the new & improved CAD diagram below (which isn't properly scaled or located yet).  Just about the only valid reason I know of to avoid wasted spark ignition, is with crazy overlap cams - it's possible (highly unlikely... but possible) to fire the intake charge while the intake & exhaust valves are still open, but I'm pretty sure even my cam isn't that wild...

PS: I'll call on Friday, work is mental just now...

Title: Re: Jaguar XJS V12 racing car
Post by: xjr5006 on December 09, 2015, 11:35:27 PM
Get yourself a dissy from and XJRS that had Zytec, It has the 12 choppers but also another ring with just the one tooth. They have dodgy pickups with odd voltages so a dead one might come very cheap and just add a suitable pickup.
Another place for the single pickup is the back of the B cam. I have this on my XJR5 for real early Lucus Micos injection system.