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New from Old / Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Last post by awemawson on October 22, 2018, 09:24:55 AM »
Thanks Pekka, not come across FUB but I do know LOTS about FUD or Fear Uncertainty and Doubt  :clap:

I can display the PLC program as CSF, LAD or STL

CSF - Control System Flowchart

LAD - Ladder

STL - Statement List

But I suppose not all constructions are possible to display in some formats hence interspersed statement lists. Here is an example of SEG-2 in all three formats

Incidentally that I4.4 is eSTOP, I7.7 is 24 volts OK, Q 7.0 is a spare output, but I have as yet no idea what F 24.3 is except that it's an internal flag bit, or what Q78.1 is, again it's an internally used output from the range it sits in.

Perhaps I should explain I's are inputs F's are flags (temporary one bit memory) and Q's are outputs.  So Q 1.2 is output word 1 bit 2 for instance which would be 'select low gear on this lathe.

( all this is me trying to familiarise myself with what I'm working with - sorry if I'm boring you all  :scratch: )
Project Logs / Re: Mini mill Stand SX2 Plus
« Last post by Buell on October 22, 2018, 09:14:00 AM »
Ok so the post man just came Looks like the lead screw i ordered of Flea turned up ....wouldn't mind but it came all the way from the East to have a Man from the west in a Red uniform jam it thru the PostBox ...Lets hope its not bent out of shape !

Anyway my idea was Firstly to make a stronger and longer lead screw with larger diameter hand wheel and a way of fixing on the left end of the bed to a stepper motor to enable powerfeed. I can see this just going down the Cnc route but Not at the moment.

Concerns at the moment are...

1. New Lead-screw is stainless machining it !
2. End float Backlash etc. At the mo the old lead has a Nasty beginning to it which is not great ! See photos
3. My abilities to do this !! Rome wasn't built in a day...Well I wasn't on that Job anyway !

Thoughts before I turn something on are...

Machining well that will have to be slowly done and hopefully somewhat carefully. I have a very small lathe with carbide.
End float etc..well Im going to put a Dro set of scales when they turn up from East..Hopefully a different man from the west will NOT put them in my Post box ! so no really worry about the backlash, however when i crank with a drill attached to the lead at the mo on change of direction theres a massive amount of slack in the lead-screw to the drill. My guess is that is not so apparent when you have the dial and crank handle on. But begs the question of do I need to worry about this ? If i did have to then bearings at both end of the shaft would deal with that  angular contact type ..with a mounting point on the left holding the leadscrew before the stepper thus supporting the screw and keeping it perfectly balanced and centred and no end float ...But god that seems very complicated. Please guys say thats Crazy your not building an Aircraft engine !

My abilities Umm they are in Question but You can only do your best with what you were given..I don't mind failing whilst learning. If it were easy everyone would be doing it right.

Any advice help tips Patreon, donations, Youtube, endorsements, Brand Promotion, adds,Banners, etc etc welcome !

All else fails just 3d Print it !!
New from Old / Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Last post by PekkaNF on October 22, 2018, 09:02:51 AM »
That does not look too bad...Only it is ladder and I am more used to FUP. Some statement lists the but I did not spot any assembler.

If I remember right in S5 lingo S-R has reser overriding and R-S has set overriding. Modicon and Telemeganique had it it opposite - or A-B! Anyway, I had to check every time I changed my "language".

S5 has interesting timers, to convert S5 to Modicon had to make some extra logic to accommondate some of the timers used in S5, but not suported in Modicon.

First you need to check the offending outputs on harware, crossreference where outputs are set (only once in the program or someone has ****** up) and there you find the segmet it is set. Backtrack from there.

Commenting few segments and most inputs/outputs is a half a battle, figuring out the flags (typically exceptions like E-stop, Low hydraulic pressure, alarms, permits or states like "run" or "pause" or "jog" takes a little more tennacity.

But you are the man!
How do I?? / Re: Stepper Motor size x Axis X2Pus ?
« Last post by Buell on October 22, 2018, 07:54:54 AM »
This is a Minefield ! You say 18Ncm...sounds like some more math for me ! Nm and now Ncm god when will this end 1! im guessing its the size down from the 3nm version will check.... ahh 6mm shaft umm was hoping a little bigger.. more stuff more me to get wrong ..
Postman just left me a New leadscrew so Im guessing I better get a Plan together !

Will maybe post some kind of Log maybe others will be interested In my lack of engineering skills and electronics !!

Thanks for the info
How do I?? / Re: Stepper Motor size x Axis X2Pus ?
« Last post by John Rudd on October 22, 2018, 07:07:34 AM »
I was going to build a stepper rotab. I bought the motor from Arceurotrade, a 180ncm nema 23 sized one which happened to be the same as the one attached to the stepper rotab they used to sell..So if it was man enough for that it should do for a powered leadscrew...Btw, the stepper had a 6mm shaft

As for coupling to the lh end of the X axis leadscrew, I've seen/heard of folk drilling the leadscrew to take a 6mm dia shaft inserted into the end and use an Oldam coupling to the stepper...

Hth  :dremel:
New from Old / Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Last post by awemawson on October 22, 2018, 06:58:17 AM »
Thanks for the encouragement Mory  :clap:

I have, though, started the cross referencing - just a few labels at first to see how and where they appear. When inserted they are displayed on the screen in a tasteful yellow when you click on an input or output, but not in printed versions. I'm sure that it must be possible to get them on the print out, but I've yet to find how other than editing the .PDF (which I don't want to do as within STEP5 the label pop up in all sorts of different screens).

. . . so much to learn . . .so much fun . . .so many Aspirins  :lol:
How do I?? / Stepper Motor size x Axis X2Pus ?
« Last post by Buell on October 22, 2018, 05:47:57 AM »
So im going to build a power feed to the mill on the original lead-screw..Put a stepper on the left hand of the table, attach to the leadscrew and make some kind of control to make it go back and forth at different speeds. Have seen a few vids online and seems the general idea is to go to big then wish they had used a smaller unit. My thought was Nema 23 unit ..then initially go for the 3nm version which is almost 6 inches long   :)  Having watched someone using it on an Axminster mill saying it was way over powered wondered if i could use the Nema 23 that has 1/2 the output  ? think its  1.26Nm and 2.8amps that maybe the one to go for ? or is it Not quite enough.

theres nothing in the price much its just the size and weight hanging off the Bed..together with the sizes of the motors also reflects on the driver size with amperage or might one cover most sizes.

Anyone had any use of either on a small milling machine they could advise real life situations as apposed to drawings and specs ?

Also because the machine lead-screw has nothing on the end to attach the stepper to any successful attachments used so far that have held up ?

Much appreciated.
New from Old / Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Last post by mc on October 22, 2018, 05:45:48 AM »
Have you not got it all traced yet?
It's only 33 pages, and the first doesn't even contain any segments...  :D
New from Old / Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Last post by awemawson on October 22, 2018, 04:27:27 AM »
Crumbs - I'd not like to try to work that lot out without a manual and a stiff cup of coffee!

What are the segments that look a little like machine code? And what do they do?  :scratch:

I reckon, if you gave me a week & a text version of that file, and a few hints from the manual, I could come up with a nice lathe simulator for you  :lol:

I believe those sections are STEP5 commands that must be doing clever things yet to be revealed - I do have the list of commands if you fancy a bit of homework  :lol:

Something must also hook into the vast ASM file that gets loaded  but all this excitement is still over the horizon  :clap:
New from Old / Re: The Sequel - Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe (Beaver TC 20)
« Last post by awemawson on October 22, 2018, 04:23:44 AM »
So it's only taken since the beginning of August to get STEP5 running, talking to the 820T controller, and getting a vague understanding of my way about inside the PLC program. Not quite three months so it could have been worse !

Next step is to cross reference the ladder programs inputs and outputs to the corresponding entries on the various other documents such as the circuit diagram and wiring lists. That should hopefully start to reveal where the M codes are handled. I think that there is a documentation feature in STEP5 that will allow me to put 'labels' on the local copy of the PLC program which will make things far easier to understand.

. . . but I must confess to a warm glow this morning having got this far  :palm:
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