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Gallery, Projects and General => The Design Shop => Topic started by: Joules on December 18, 2015, 03:22:14 PM

Title: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 18, 2015, 03:22:14 PM
Right, suspending all disbelief that anyone could be as insane, as to suggest a "PLASTIC" tool and cutter grinder.  How would you go about making the Quorn using off the shelf components for shafts spindles and bars.  Would you use steel pipe/cut up cycle frame, copper water pipe!!! for the bars.  Can we print a mould to cast the spiral column onto a metal or carbon fibre tube, will it be anchored as much to the base board as fixed in the printed "casting".  Incorporate skateboard bearings where rotation is needed in parts and so spread the load through the printed part.  The 3D printed parts could mostly hide the skeletal subframe, or maybe, the printed parts will be strong enough ?   Until its been tried and disproved don't assume it can't be done.   How would you go about tackling it.   I will make a start on this idea (that doesn't mean it will reach completion, or maybe abandoned due to it sagging on a hot day)  Lets try pushing the tech here and see if it can't inspire others to try.   More and more people are going to have 3D printers, so they might as well have decent projects to try making.   Those fortunate enough can look on this and think, well I could make patterns that way for casting.   Let the chaos commence

 :mmr:
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: chipenter on December 18, 2015, 03:27:04 PM
Plenty of groung bar available for linear bearings I would start with reserching those .
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 18, 2015, 03:33:45 PM
Good thinking Jeff, but lets assume our hapless adventurer doesn't have the knowledge of such stuff and only his local hardware store etc. and what he can find as scrap if he's lucky.  This guy has a Mini lathe and maybe a small mill/drill at his disposal, otherwise why is he trying to build a tool and cutter grinder.   :scratch:  Oh, and of course he bought a 3D printer thinking it would be the end of him ever having to learn how to machine stuff or buy any other materials and he would bang stuff out like an Argos conveyor belt.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: awemawson on December 18, 2015, 03:34:49 PM
No reason that a Quorn like machine couldn't be made from weldments. Have to be normalised after welding to stabilize them.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 18, 2015, 03:45:09 PM
Ahhh Andrew, this guy spent his hard earned on the 3D printer, he's young and somewhat foolish.  Welding is one of those tasks to be feared, for setting fire to the shed, or discovering that arc welding in the house ruins the lino or carpets, if your posh....   Try to focus on this as being primarily a 3D printed challenge, but Screwfix is only a bus ride away if it gets really tough.

We all have experience in machining, but what about the next generation builders being brought up on 3D printers.  How to entice them to the denser side of materials technology.  One day they will have 3D metal printers, but not quite yet.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: sparky961 on December 18, 2015, 04:20:22 PM
If we're just talking about slides/ways, here are a few ideas:

Cold rolled round stock - Found at many hardware stores, farm stores, and steel suppliers that cater to small business and hobby.  About the most dimensionally consistent material you can find at a hardware store.  Polish it up in a lathe and you can make it even better.  Gingery's books talk about using rectangular CRS bar for the box ways of the lathe and mill.

O1 (Silver steel, tool steel) - Found at the small steel supplier.  Though more elusive than cold rolled, it's also much smoother and closer to size (though not as good as many people expect).  TGP (turned, ground, polished) is much better yet, but also much harder to find.

Galvanized angle iron - I'm thinking about the stuff made from sheet metal with holes punched in it.  Sold at most any large hardware store around this area.  I'm willing to bet it would make for a pretty smooth ride for a bearing with a V-groove.  Again, even better with some hand work polishing things up a bit.

Drawer slides - The heavy duty kind with ball bearings have always whispered to me that they need to be made into something interesting.  Some sort of arrangement would need to be in place to take up the play but definitely a smooth ride and likely quite linear.

ERW Tube/Box Section - In long sections this can have some pretty bad twists and bows.  Also if it sits around for too long or out in the weather you end up with rusty scrap.  However, get it new and from a reliable mill and it would probably make a good track for a bearing.  I'm sure the guy that spent money on the 3D printer would spring for a grinder with wire wheel to polish things up a bit.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 18, 2015, 04:26:41 PM
Sparky961, that doesn't sound bad and yep, recon our adventurer might spring to an Aldi angle grinder and brush, if nothing more that to brush the worn teflon off his stainless frying pan, beats using a pan scrubber...
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 18, 2015, 04:42:22 PM
Does anyone have the approx weight of a built Quorn.  Ours isn't going to weigh that much, but its not a bad idea to design it for that weight and some.   Looking at the base bar supports now and thinking they need to be fully supported along the bottom of the casting/print rather than just a foot.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: chipenter on December 18, 2015, 04:42:58 PM
There is also key steel found in tool stores and bearing supplies in 300mm lenghts .
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: PeterE on December 18, 2015, 04:47:50 PM
I guess you could use ordinary steel plumbing pipe for ways, clean them up in the lathe and fill with concrete/epoxi+sand for weigth  :scratch:

/Peter
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: mattinker on December 18, 2015, 05:02:16 PM
I may be being somewhat of a wet blanket, but why would your individual know what a Quorn was? With his limited machines what use would he have for a Quorn. He could of course look at the Bonelle, it uses steel stock and no weldments.

Regards, Matthew
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 18, 2015, 05:03:04 PM
As I will be printing in PLA this will actually be a Corn based Quorn   :bugeye:
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: RotarySMP on December 18, 2015, 05:05:37 PM
Precision ground shaft is cheap. Dont waste your time looking for an alternative. 3d print the caasting parts with minimal infill, then lost PLA cast them in iron.
Mark
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 18, 2015, 05:06:23 PM
Matthew, he spotted one on the internet when he went hunting to find out why all his blunt tools wouldn't work.   Whilst he was search he found some MAD old fool in 2016 made one out of PLASTIC !!! on a then 3D printer and he left all his plans for others to try.    :thumbup:
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: awemawson on December 18, 2015, 05:15:51 PM
"Whilst he was search he found some MAD old fool in 2016 made one out of PLASTIC !!!"



Blimey, as well as not welding he must be psychic - can he tell me what else is going to happen in 2016  :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 18, 2015, 05:47:25 PM
He didn't win the lottery   :(

I have just started scaling parts and found that some of the castings done full size exceed the size of the print bed I am using, so not only is it PLASTIC, but it's scaled down a bit  :palm:

Like I said our hero was pretty desperate and was probably related to said MAD fool....

We are just going to see how far we can go with 3D printed parts...  It may or may not work   :poke:
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Pete49 on December 18, 2015, 10:39:23 PM
interesting project here and quite apt. I've got a cold drink(s) and popcorn ....let the build begin  :lol:
Pete
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Baron on December 19, 2015, 07:24:37 AM
Good Morning Norman,

Mine- the Quorn is under the bench unused for years

Norman

I reckon that it needs a little loving  :bugeye:
 
 
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: RobWilson on December 19, 2015, 08:04:20 AM
looks like this thread will be going South  :bang:


Rob
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: nrml on December 19, 2015, 11:03:19 AM
Why not make the larger 'castings' in two or more pieces and mount them on a metal slab or bar? Alternatively, for someone with your skills, making a cast polyurethane item would be a walk in the park.
He didn't win the lottery   :(

I have just started scaling parts and found that some of the castings done full size exceed the size of the print bed I am using, so not only is it PLASTIC, but it's scaled down a bit  :palm:

Like I said our hero was pretty desperate and was probably related to said MAD fool....

We are just going to see how far we can go with 3D printed parts...  It may or may not work   :poke:
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 19, 2015, 11:10:36 AM
nrml, looking at that as an option to make best use of printed grain in parts.   Post some CAD ideas in a few days, once I cobble a list of materials I have or need to get started.  Not expecting a printed Quorn to behave and handle tooling as per a metal engineered machine, but hope it will handle fine work without too much flexing.   Thats the aim anyway, and to just see where we go.  Norman got it, in that rigidity will be the biggest issue.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: tom osselton on December 19, 2015, 02:39:45 PM
How big is your print area on your 3d printer? It is posible to make it in two halves with a reinforcing shaft that goes through it along with locating pins.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 19, 2015, 03:16:28 PM
I am just having a mess about with the CAD file now.  The bed on this machine is 150mm square so I can almost squeeze it in at 45 degree across the bed.  However I am looking at making this part in two pieces as I want the printed layers in two planes to maximise the material strength.  I think the vertical column part of the casting will have a section tee'd into the main casting to pick up one of the bars.  I can then plastic weld these parts together.  Otherwise my option is to split the casting between the bars and insert an alloy plate that has been bored to tie the bars and bridge the printed parts, this could also be applied to the other printed casting for the other end.   I am still doodling those ideas.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: awemawson on December 19, 2015, 03:45:09 PM
Does anyone have the approx weight of a built Quorn.  Ours isn't going to weigh that much, but its not a bad idea to design it for that weight and some.   Looking at the base bar supports now and thinking they need to be fully supported along the bottom of the casting/print rather than just a foot.

Looking back through my records, the last Quorn that I sold, which was fully equipped, with all collets, spare wheels etc and in a fitted case had a packed weight of 40kGs.. This was a particularly nice one that I had bought from a deceased estate but had been left in a shed to rust by the family for far too long before they sold it.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 19, 2015, 04:01:05 PM
This is what I propose to do with the printed casting.  I have done parts like this in the past and then welded the edges.  The column part will be printed as is, the bar support printed on its side to make best use of the printed parts strength.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/100%20Left%20Base%20Split_zpsudqmw3rn.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/100%20Left%20Base%20Split_zpsudqmw3rn.jpg.html)

As for motor, I am not expecting to use the standard motor, maybe a brushless outrunner as I don't expect to grind the same amount as a full cast iron based Quorn and thank you for a guide on weight.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Pete49 on December 19, 2015, 08:27:53 PM
wow you are getting on with it. Loving it.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: RotarySMP on December 20, 2015, 04:20:34 AM
I like the way you interlock the two components. One of my friends has been 3D printing for a few years, and it is really cool the completely differnet solutions to mechanical problems he comes up with, compared to a subtractive worker (Machinist).

Look forward to seeing how this pans out. You can still lost PLA cast the parts if they turn out to lack rigidity.

Sounds like most Quorns get made as a skills challenge, and end up barely or unused. At least a plastic one won't rust :)

Mark

Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 20, 2015, 04:42:04 AM
 LOL.  I think you got it spot on Mark, this is as much a challenge and as such the design will morph as problems arise.  Take for instance the vertical part of the casting.  To make that more rigid rather than add ribbing to the vertical column I would be better moving the fixing round 90 degrees then mirror it, so instead of one bolt it has two fixing bolts.   I am going to try acrylic rod in 25 and 30mm for the bars.   The 30mm should allow me to machine in the spiral with some yet to be devise cunning geared gadget.  So there goes the idea of not having plastic on plastic bearings.

No worries on this one closing up Norman, it will be printed with the slit or some yet to be thought of bar clamping method.   I expect to get none of this right first time and now for some delay whilst I prepare further modelled parts.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 20, 2015, 06:01:33 AM
You already know Norman, my biggest challenge will be when I start building the parts away from the bars and things start to flex.  That is where my main concerns are, and if I can devise alterations to stiffen those parts without them becoming unwieldily.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: awemawson on December 20, 2015, 06:44:06 AM
Prof. Chaddock made it as step on the way to his BRM model. See page 31 of this link:

http://www.sm-ee.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/2010-05.pdf
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Arbalist on December 20, 2015, 07:24:53 AM
Joules, are you going to make the plastic parts the same size as the cast iron ones would be or are you going to make them larger wherever possible? I see no advantage to copy the CI parts verbatim unless you want the finished product to look identical?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 20, 2015, 07:35:59 AM
Cheers guys, your input is very welcome.  Arbalist I am treating the casting like a listed monument, alterations and extensions will be in keeping with the sytle of building.  No I am heavily modifying the parts to make best use of my 3D printing knowledge and experience.   The devil is truly in the detail, at present I have no idea how long just preparing the CAD models will take.  You can't just tap plastic and expect fasteners to behave as though in metal, so in places inserts and buttons must be incorporated into the print, but nothing too complex.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 20, 2015, 07:57:35 AM
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/100%20Left%203%20point%20fixing_zpszeria8cj.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/100%20Left%203%20point%20fixing_zpszeria8cj.jpg.html)

This is the altered casting parts.  I moved the fixing points and doubled them to make the column more rigid, this also impacted on the blending of the two parts, so I had to alter that.  I am also missing some of the chamfering I will add for the weld fillets.  The original CAD model I got is pretty awful for 3D printing as it isn't watertight and has many overlapping and twisted surfaces, so I am pretty much having to redraw each part from scratch for 3D print ready parts.  What I learn here will be applied to other jobs and projects so none of it is a waste of time.

So far the wall thickness is around 7mm, which for PLA has huge strength if you print in the 40-50% infill range.  The vertical column will also be drilled and tapped in the base, so allowing it to be bolted to the mounting board/plate.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: mattinker on December 20, 2015, 08:49:53 AM
Joules,

what are you planning to mount your plastic Quorn on? A piece of granite counter top and bolts compressing the plastic could help enormously with rigidity!

Regards, Matthew
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 20, 2015, 09:01:01 AM
Matt, bolting is going to be a contentious issue as PLA will creep if put under too much stress for too long  (lesson learned from printed violin)  So it maybe something like cycle quick release system so its only firmly clamped during use.   Experimentation will be fun  :scratch:

Another option is to sleeve the bolts so creep can be limited then skim the sleeves if needed later on.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 20, 2015, 11:46:17 AM
Haaaaa, been a long time since I had a print failure, well, I just had one   :(

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0067_zpscbbdzxe0.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0067_zpscbbdzxe0.jpg.html)

I am so thankful it was only 1hr into this 24hr print.  Serves me right for being cocky and trying to print both parts at the same time.   The larger part was right on the edge of the bed and must have got cooled faster than the rest, so it started to curl.   It's not a total loss, I was a bit BELT & BRACES in my print settings.  I went a bit heavy on the wall thickness, again this could have contributed to the curl as it gets really thin where it started to lift.  I had printed a skirt to hold it down, but it seems to have pulled away from that.   Maybe printing on a raft would be better, but the surface finish suffers.

On to the next one, new settings to be determined from close inspection of these parts.  I am printing in 0.15mm layers, 50mm/s print speed and at 210℃ and 45% infill, think that last one can be dropped to 40%  That will also help speed up the next print, and I shall do each part separately.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: nrml on December 20, 2015, 12:59:51 PM
You could use epoxy resin to bond the plastic parts to the base. There will be little stress on the plastic and the bonding should be plenty strong enough. You can incorporate a few holes in the design of the printed parts for dowel pins for added joint strength. 
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 20, 2015, 01:22:00 PM
Cheers nrml, epoxy just doesn't bond to the clean surface of PLA, now printing the parts with dowel holes is a pretty good idea.  Will look into doing that on a later revision of this first print.  The print is progressing now so see what we end up with tomorrow.

6mm dowel holes now included in base of casting for registration on mounting board (most likely a sheet of aluminium)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 21, 2015, 05:12:07 AM
Half way there.... On the first casting   :coffee:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0068_zpsqlnhapnj.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0068_zpsqlnhapnj.jpg.html)

Not so happy with the infill, but this print is VERY rigid.  Next part due off the printer in 10hrs.

If it all goes to plan, this should be the internal structure (infill) I will use in all the future prints.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/Print%20Style_zps4tpnwa2u.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/Print%20Style_zps4tpnwa2u.jpg.html)

Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 21, 2015, 03:59:12 PM
A good 10hrs later, second part of the first casting done.  Quick clean up, pulling off the support material and push them together for a trial fit.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0071_zpspega8xgh.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0071_zpspega8xgh.jpg.html)

This is the fit with no clean up.  Needle file will knock off some of the small blobs on the mating surfaces.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0069_zps84g5bpth.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0069_zps84g5bpth.jpg.html)

I won't know how accurate my centres are till I can put some bars in.   Theory has it any error should be the same in the next part printed, so hope the centres are equal, next print will confirm that.  I picked up my Perspex rod today and the 30mm is a very snug fit in the vertical column.  I'm a gnats under on the 25mm, if the hole is elliptical, "Norman" it will get a skim if thats the case.

 (http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0070_zpsf82aa7n9.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0070_zpsf82aa7n9.jpg.html)

Last one for now showing the quality of fit and the holes for the dowel pins, they probably will be fitted with epoxy, but more to grout them in than glue.  I'm a lot happier in the print quality on this second part.  Once this section gets the bars in and welded, I can skim the underside to get them true.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: John Rudd on December 21, 2015, 05:00:41 PM
Have to say, I'm very impressed with the quality of the 'printed' items....  :dremel:

I'm also more impressed at your ability in mastering this technology.... :bow: :bow: patience at learning a new skill such as this is not one of my strong points...  :(
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 21, 2015, 06:23:05 PM
Thanks for that John, but when I first started it was hellishly frustrating getting through the early learning curve.  I see what guys here do in metal and realise I won't achieve what they can.  I am just happy to have found something that fits my skill set, and that my craft skills can compliment it.  I can design stuff I don't have the skill or tools to machine.



Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 22, 2015, 10:45:28 AM
Next step,  I have remodelled the other end supporting the bars, and moved its mounting position into the middle of the casting.  Nothing jumps out at me that may cause any issue here and I have recessed the fixing.  Rather than split the casting I have gone for an 8mm pin that will pull and wedge the bar in order to lock it.  Again, if anyone see's a fault in my logic please pipe up.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/101%20Right%20Base_zpskgrryqyn.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/101%20Right%20Base_zpskgrryqyn.jpg.html)

Let me also know if this style of representation is easier than the rendered images.  Once I finalise this part and get it printed we should be ready to assemble as per below.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/CORN%20Assembly%20I_zpstoe7xftg.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/CORN%20Assembly%20I_zpstoe7xftg.jpg.html)

The eventual plan is to re-print the castings in a suitable colour, but for now translucent works well as I can shine a light and see where parts are.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: RobWilson on December 22, 2015, 11:12:32 AM
Have to say, I'm very impressed with the quality of the 'printed' items....  :dremel:

I'm also more impressed at your ability in mastering this technology.... :bow: :bow: patience at learning a new skill such as this is not one of my strong points...  :(

Plus one  :thumbup:  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


Rob
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: awemawson on December 22, 2015, 11:28:40 AM
Looking good Jules  :thumbup:

Prof Chaddock would have been highly amused, I don't think he was shy of using new materials and techniques.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 22, 2015, 01:50:12 PM
Not worried about the grit at the moment, more interested in at least getting it working.  If parts are cheap to make once its completed I will just wear them out and replace.   :thumbup:
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 22, 2015, 03:30:23 PM
What about seals wiping the bars ?  I will give the felt a go, but can't imagine that being great at keep grit off, but I thought rubber seals might keep it at bay.

As the next major part is a 10hr print and will wait till tomorrow I have got a quicker 1hr job on the printer.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/109%20Micrometer%20Thimble_zpsnwnkvgtd.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/109%20Micrometer%20Thimble_zpsnwnkvgtd.jpg.html)

In this case the micrometer thimble.  Since knurling looks naff 3D printed, I have gone for something a little better suited to 3D printing.  It's been printed in black and I will try to put white paint in the numerals and graduation marks once it's done.  This part is printing at 0.1mm to capture the fine detail in the numerals.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: RobWilson on December 22, 2015, 03:54:20 PM
is it done yet !   :D



Rob
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 22, 2015, 04:11:12 PM
86%

Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: RobWilson on December 22, 2015, 04:30:11 PM
86%


 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: RotarySMP on December 22, 2015, 04:42:18 PM
That rendering looks cool. Which CAD SW are you using?
Mark
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 22, 2015, 05:08:11 PM
Hot on the printer...

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0072_zps1y9ipyd6.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0072_zps1y9ipyd6.jpg.html)

It doesn't photo well under artificial light, I have just started the clean up of this part so it looks worse than it actually is.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0073_zpsyvaghtup.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0073_zpsyvaghtup.jpg.html)

But I hope this gives some sense of scale.

Mark the software is Rhino, and it's using the artistic view.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: raynerd on December 23, 2015, 02:16:18 AM
Great work. Can't wait to see it up and running - I'll stick my first parts order in  :wave: :thumbup:
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: PekkaNF on December 23, 2015, 02:37:35 AM
Grit on TCG....

My experience shows two approaches:
* Nothing covered. Keep dry and vacuum everything out before moving anything :lol:
* All covered/pressurized. Still needs to be vacuumed before shutting down pressure.

Rubber covers + non pressurized or any grease/coolant on ways: Worse than anything else.

Think of rubber cover over a bar. You move the cover and increase/decrease internal volume of the bellow = differential air pressure and that surely sucks the grit inside the area that was supposed to be protected. And it is hard to clean the area inside the bellow.

I was thinking of fitting plastic "scrapers" on ways and pressurizing a small plenum right behind of it. Needs some trial and error, plastic "washer" pops out if too tight fit to rod and if too loose, uses a lot of air and blows the dust/grit around.

I would not worry bout the grit on MK I model, just keep it dry and clean.

BTW. Grit is going to be embedded on the plastic and wear out the steel rods. May actually make nice laps.

Pekka
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 23, 2015, 03:21:36 AM
LOL bars are going to be perspex, so running it dry.  The initial thoughts here are 3D print different vacuum shields for the various grinding operations as printing is relatively quick I should be able to make custom hoods to enclose the work and wheel as much as possible and attach vacuum cleaner to reduce dust/grit MAYBE...

Having just checked the parts this morning, they have changed shape a little  !!!  My close fit isn't quite as close now, this could be temperature/humidity related, we shall see.  Sorry guys not expecting metal casting precision here, but perhaps good/enough for sharpening small items and cutters upto 6mm.  The challenge is getting something that works, it would be nice to see what this casting would be like printed in polycarbonate, but that is beyond the capability of my 3D printers.  Now when we have desktop metal printing   :med:

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0074_zpsha3bfrer.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0074_zpsha3bfrer.jpg.html)

Here you go Rob, if the rest of the project turns to crap this micrometer thimble will be worth the experimentation.  I have just applied Humbrol enamel with a toothpick, once it dries I can lightly rub down the surface and sharpen up the detail.  Little things like this make the printer soooooo  useful.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: awemawson on December 23, 2015, 03:37:12 AM
That thimble has come out very nicely.

When you say things have changed size/shape have you a guesstimate what sort of percentage? As the medium is squirted out at melting point, presumably the whole body of a print will get quite warm during the process. As the plastics are poor heat conductors they will take a long time to come to a stable temperature in the core of the object which I assume will tend to set up stresses which will probably take quite a time to come to an equilibrium. Not important if printing a Yoda or a small precision object, but more so as the size and mass increase.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 23, 2015, 04:01:58 AM
Andrew, this is the largest part I have printed, it does look like the internal structure has pulled the print out of line.  Not easy to say how much, I just made up some paper feeler gauges and its looking like 0.010""  has opened up at the thin fillet on top where the vertical part of the print joins.  When I finally come to welding these parts they will be clamped to a surface plate and tacked together, very much like tig welding.   Once I get the bars in I can measure from them, it's all good fun.

I have started the print for the other end support, once its finished I will give it 48hrs to stabilise and see what we have.  I tried to keep the wall thickness the same so if it is distorting due to internal stress, it may distort the same way, two wrongs making the best right I can hope for.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: RobWilson on December 23, 2015, 04:28:45 AM
 :clap: :clap: :clap: looking good Joules  :thumbup:



Rob
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 23, 2015, 03:23:08 PM
29hrs printing see's the base castings complete.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0077_zpslpfj1tew.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0077_zpslpfj1tew.jpg.html)

Guess it might be Boxing day the bars go in.  The rear bar will be press fit and the front bar a sliding fit (in theory).  The micrometer thimble actually made a good gauge to test the 25mm Perspex bar.  It does vary a little, so I hope to manage the two bar fits from the 1m bar I have.  Otherwise doodling, the rest of the micrometer adjuster and working out a plan  :scratch:.  Threads into PLA, not likely, might get away with it in Perspex though.  Will have to make some test parts and see how happy they are with 10lbs (4.5kg) load on them, otherwise its metal components in this area.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/Micrometer%20assembly_zpshftd9kt8.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/Micrometer%20assembly_zpshftd9kt8.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: nrml on December 23, 2015, 04:13:30 PM
Slightly  :offtopic:.
Why not ABS-Polycarbonate blend instead of pure polycarbonate. It seems to be very highly rated by respected pioneers in the reprap movement. A tool grinder is not liklely to end up covered with oil and grease and the exposed areas could easily be given an appropriate protective coating.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 23, 2015, 04:36:01 PM
No reason at all, my only concern PC/ABS mix, the ABS.  You're using it, admittedly in a blend, above ABS working temp.  Since ABS already stinks the place out off gassing, that is going to be worse at higher temperatures.  What happens to the ABS component at those higher temperatures ?   Bit like brass loosing its zinc, not sure I am happy getting a lower PC temp by burning off more ABS.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Baron on December 24, 2015, 05:47:46 AM
Seasons Greetings Joules,

Nice work.  Watching with interest.

Just a comment: You might find that the perspex bar is not truly round.

Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 24, 2015, 06:31:21 AM
Cheers Baron, your spot on, but then my 3D prints aren't truly round in the bores  :lol:

I wonder if you can get ground and polished glass rod in 25 & 30mm diameter, would have to forget the spiral on 30mm glass, unless an angle grinder disk could put the groove in   :scratch:

(no I am not being serious, but...)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 24, 2015, 07:03:19 AM
Norman, much learning taking place.  I am just sat here  :scratch: my head over why this part I just printed is undersize on only one surface.    Sorted, it was a combination of me cleaning up the inner surface on the thimble and the wheel being spot on.  I think I will reprint the wheel than my painted thimble.  (too much sherry and mince pies)

At the end of the day, it's printing what we get, see what the problems are and work round, wait for someone else to try and make a better job   :thumbup:


It's plastic, you can tweak it with a hair drier   :bugeye:
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 24, 2015, 09:40:05 AM
Today was finish off the micrometer handle and thimble assembly.  I had intended to use a pair of ball bearings as friction pads, but when I went looking for them I couldn't find any.  Right, another printed challenge.  My machine is only rated to 0.1mm layers, so what the hell.  I printed two friction pad/buttons at 0.05mm layer and they worked.  I wasn't sure how they would turn out, but they are good.  They have the profile on the top that the thimble has on its inner surface.  Maybe I could have increased the pad size by not just making them fit the cross hole and opening out the area over the hole.  But for now they work.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0078_zpsgpzr25z9.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0078_zpsgpzr25z9.jpg.html)

What I have found though, is when I assemble this and have no access to the spring once the threaded shaft is in.  I can't untension the spring to release the thimble, I can live with that as it's not going to fall apart any time soon.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0079_zpsm3ifkxqy.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0079_zpsm3ifkxqy.jpg.html)

The completed assembly.  I'm very pleased with how this worked out and can see me making more of these for things like microscope stages and other machine adjusters. I guess each one can be printed as a set of parts in just over an hour.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: awemawson on December 24, 2015, 09:42:56 AM
...what....you didn't PRINT the spring ........ :ddb:
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 24, 2015, 09:56:44 AM
 :Doh:  BUGGER
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Baron on December 24, 2015, 12:02:54 PM
Cheers Baron, your spot on, but then my 3D prints aren't truly round in the bores  :lol:

I wonder if you can get ground and polished glass rod in 25 & 30mm diameter, would have to forget the spiral on 30mm glass, unless an angle grinder disk could put the groove in   :scratch:

(no I am not being serious, but...)

Actually you can !  I think Dow Corning or St Gobain do them.  They are used in the chemical/scientific and communications industry, though ground ceramic tube could be cheaper.

Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 24, 2015, 02:14:59 PM
Now the Chaos gets really deep...

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/Mess20to20fix2020Workhead_zps6hxlthpu.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/Mess20to20fix2020Workhead_zps6hxlthpu.jpg.html)

Converting these parts into printable models and incorporating more suitable bearing and clamping surfaces.  I will take a cue from the pointer casting with the taper hole, thats a good way to make locking parts with lots of contact area.  I'm thinking of going that route for all the split joints on these parts.  Another niggle for me, is a lack of knowledge in the use of the Quorn.  I'm not sure where parts are likely to collide if I add more material and the CAD model I am working from already has surfaces colliding, so I know the model is wrong in places.  LOTS to redraw 

I would really welcome links showing the Quorn in use and as many of the accessories as possible.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: sparky961 on December 24, 2015, 02:17:47 PM
Surely glass is easier to print than metal....  :poke:
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 24, 2015, 02:20:14 PM
http://www.technologyreview.com/news/540926/3-d-printing-breaks-the-glass-barrier/

Perhaps I can add some ABS to bring the glass temperature down  :scratch:
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: DMIOM on December 24, 2015, 06:20:40 PM
......
(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0079_zpsm3ifkxqy.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0079_zpsm3ifkxqy.jpg.html)

The completed assembly.  I'm very pleased with how this worked out and can see me making more of these for things like microscope stages and other machine adjusters. I guess each one can be printed as a set of parts in just over an hour.

Cracking work and the filled & cleaned markings look splendid

Dave
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 26, 2015, 11:10:59 AM
My thoughts are going back to bellows for the bars, having taken note of comments.  What if I centre drill and cross drill the bar ends beyond the castings, so the air has a path to equalise, then run silicon tube from a take off on each support casting to a filter box, or out of dusts way ?   How does that sound ?


I might even be able to print the bellows in Ninjaflex.

Well, as it turns out plenty of info on making paper bellows, it might be worth printing a couple of press tools that emboss the paper for folding the bellows.  Having the tools means I can remake bellows as and when.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: PekkaNF on December 26, 2015, 12:36:45 PM
My thoughts are going back to bellows for the bars, having taken note of comments.  What if I centre drill and cross drill the bar ends beyond the castings, so the air has a path to equalise, then run silicon tube from a take off on each support casting to a filter box, or out of dusts way ?   How does that sound ?

Pressurizing a bellow inside is the most efficient way. Equalizing pressure trough filter will cause underpressure.

You could design the system with differential "piston rods" - the air would ideally move just inside the bellow...there will some real life limitations.

Or pressurize just a little - just ennough flow to compensate volume. Best to put orifice on feed, then bellows and plenum + sintered filter on exhaust, just to keep it under minimum pressure.

Pekka
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 26, 2015, 12:58:15 PM
Thanks Norman I have not put a cotter pin on the lever arm as that is clamping PLA to PLA. I expect the other areas to be cotter pins.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_20151226_173358_zpsmkeuzvdq.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_20151226_173358_zpsmkeuzvdq.jpg.html)

Todays printed part, I modified the boss, reducing its diameter so the part would print flat, it also will take a threaded insert.

I am wondering why the workhead centre is offset from the bar centre ?   As I really need to clamp the workhead support on both sides to counter any bending force, what impact will it have on the grind geometry having both centres inline ?


Thanks Pekka, might look at using a small computer fan to provide above ambient pressure, will look into that.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: sparky961 on December 26, 2015, 01:13:31 PM
When this picture first loaded up, I thought you might be printing replacement hip joints now.... :P  Maybe some day down the road. 

Put me on the wait list for a few decades (hopefully) from now.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: efrench on December 26, 2015, 01:24:22 PM
A simpler bellows with no folds can be made from discs of fabric.  I used blackout curtain material for these bellows:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v649/etfrench/Spherical%20Pano%20Head/Macro%20Pano%20Head%20II/DSCN6816s_zps6kc0fdfs.jpg)

If you go with folded bellows, then make the stiffeners from light plastic and use a v-bit to create the pattern similar to making stencils (assuming you have CNC).

p.s. Here's a model of a Bonelle: https://gallery.autodesk.com/fusion360/projects/22104/bonelle-tool-and-cutter-grinder?searched=
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 26, 2015, 01:39:12 PM
Hip joints added to "To Do" list   :)

waterproof nylon bellows, yep that's a possible, cutting die in arbour press and steal a bunch of cagoule's.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: NeoTech on December 26, 2015, 05:27:08 PM
Is it just me but 3D printing match plates for aluminium casting.. wouldnt that be  a not to bad use of those plastic pukers?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: sparky961 on December 26, 2015, 07:24:18 PM
plastic pukers

Do I give you the credit for coining the term? I love it!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: nrml on December 27, 2015, 05:34:46 AM
The best looking way to do bellows would be the origami method used by the vintage camera folk. Use polyester paper. It should fold like paper but won't get torn as easily.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: awemawson on December 27, 2015, 05:57:55 AM
There are places that will make them for you - I had some made for my Fanuc Tapecut Wire EDM re-build.

These are simple 'curtains' but they make all sorts of complex shapes. I would have made them but getting the right material proved the problem so forked out a few pennies
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: NeoTech on December 27, 2015, 12:50:19 PM
plastic pukers

Do I give you the credit for coining the term? I love it!

That you would do yes. I really dislike 3D printers in its current "form".. They can rarely print something that is really useful, even on an industrial scale.. But for casting molds, matchplates and prototypes i think they are in their right element.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 27, 2015, 01:54:13 PM
Next parts coming off the CAD system.  It's been FUN, checking the geometry and as far as I can tell I can still move a cutter into the same plane as the offset head, just not as far off centre.  Will it affect relief angles ?
 I really wasn't happy with the idea of going with a single side support, though it is in another drawing revision if I want to try it later.  Moving the head inboard also meant having to sculpt out some of the casting to allow the head a full Ī30 degree movement.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/Partial20workhead_zpstf3xxy1n.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/Partial20workhead_zpstf3xxy1n.jpg.html)

I have increased the rotary table spindle diameter to 15mm, this is one area I am unsure if I will need a metal component to support the table above it.
The scale will be printed as a seperate component in black to be treated as the thimble was, then welded in place.  Still to sort, the pointer arrangement coming off the table support, nothing pretty yet and may stay that way.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: awemawson on December 27, 2015, 04:18:42 PM
I suspect that over time the parallel bars, if plastic, will sag. I hope that I am proved wrong, but that is what my engineering experience predicts.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 27, 2015, 05:29:44 PM
Andrew, I don't fault your logic.  I have no doubt this thing will be "Bouncy"  how much ?  Not sure and if needed I can print supports for under the workhead casting or bars to bring it back up.  If you don't try, you won't know, and its a good test of my CAD, design and printing skills.  I suspect it will work in a fashion, if nothing else for the reason Norman commented, the cuts taken are "VERY" light, I won't be trying large cutters on it, but will play up to 6mm end mills and 1/4" HSS tool bits.  Long term we shall find out what its limitations are, and how much of an impact they have on getting a job done.  It's not a SERIOUS tool, for those  :scratch: their heads at this mad man building plastic tools.  However, we shall see where the technology takes us, and how it progresses over time, just get those creative juices flowing guy's.   This has so far all been designed and printed from the comfort of a nice warm room.  Only the bar you see has required any machine work.  YES, it really squeaked as I pressed it in on the drill press and it took more force than I expected.  The bar has also pulled the two part base print into alignment, which is nice.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_20151227_215917_zpslen7eobh.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_20151227_215917_zpslen7eobh.jpg.html)

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_20151227_215853_zpsvcnnblkw.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_20151227_215853_zpsvcnnblkw.jpg.html)

Progress, but the next bar is going to be more of a problem as I need to make some form of honing tool for all the printed parts that go on the front bar.   :lol:  It's precision Norman.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: awemawson on December 27, 2015, 06:04:18 PM
Don't read me wrong Jules. I think that this is a very creditable job, and I am envious of your obvious 3D modeling and printing skills, and it is very good to see something potentially very useful being made this way.

So far I've baulked at setting myself up to 3D print as most of the kits and plans seem to produce toy sized stuff to a limited accuracy tediously slowly.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: sparky961 on December 27, 2015, 06:21:04 PM
I should add too that although I've been throwing in the odd sarcastic comment from time to time that I've been actively watching this with interest.  I'm on the side of the fence that says 3D printing is still very much in its infancy.... maybe not even born yet.  But I'm rooting for it as it comes into mainstream.

I'm wishing you and your project be a success despite my healthy skepticism.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 27, 2015, 06:36:39 PM
Andrew, not a problem.  The machine I am using isn't in the same league as the home built jobs, even though it was a cheap printer.  It did take some work to get the results I have now and it is slow to print in comparison to a large CNC setup.  BUT, slow is not a problem as it just gets on with the job, whilst I do other things.  Once you have the parts on file, they can be duplicated in just a few hours or modified and tweaked as needed.  It's the speed for prototyping and relative low cost of materials, before committing to more expensive materials/processes.  A lot of my work, gets sent out for injection moulding abroad, a 3D print just gives the guy's paying the bill a little more confidence about what they expect to get from my 3D model and their moulding company.

Thanks for the compliment on the design work, it means a lot.

Norman, I'll do my best, and if that isn't good enough, I'll bodge it till it works.   :thumbup:
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 28, 2015, 02:39:07 PM
Ahhh, good and bad news today.  The bad, my two part base casting has changed shape due to the bed bar being pressed in.  The good news, I incorporated a 3 point fixing from the start so I will be able to shim and clamp this down to get things lined up.  I should also be able to tweak as things change over time.  The vertical bar will be threaded at the base end so it too can be bolted down to help keep it true.  So not unduly worried over the changing shape as that early change in fixings looks like it will pay off.

Today I completed a couple more parts of the workhead casting set.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0080_zpsen9btgh5.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0080_zpsen9btgh5.jpg.html)

Still a lot that could be tweaked on parts here.  I have NOW decided that all my cotter pins should be 10mm as standard, so have gone back and redrawn the right hand base casting as that still had an 8mm bore, and bulked up the casting outside around the bore.  I won't reprint it for this try, as my play time window is starting to close, so more eager to get something working.  Can revisit tweaks and mods later.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0081_zpsqujkolwc.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0081_zpsqujkolwc.jpg.html)

Starting to get interesting now as we get more of the castings completed.  Looking through my plastics stock I found some 10mm Delrin bar that looks like it will be cotter pin material.   Another job completed whilst the printer was busy, I made up the 30mm vertical Perspex bar and started thinking about how I will do the spiral.   Having looked at the lathe, I can gear the cross slide 5:1 to get a 1/2" pitch.  Looking online I found a gear generator that allowed me to produce the intended gear train.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/Spiral%20Gear%20Train_zpsp14x7hif.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/Spiral%20Gear%20Train_zpsp14x7hif.jpg.html)

My choices here are print the gears or get them laser cut out of Perspex.  I will start doodling the cross slide mounts to take the bar at centre height with the gear train mounted at hand wheel side and work out how I will drive it (1:1 toothed belt straight off the hand wheel)

Been a productive day.

The front bar is going to wait till I have the base clamped and lined up with the rear and vertical bar in place.  I have a plan to ease the bore on the front once things are something like lined up and held in place.  This is no metal casting !!!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Will_D on December 28, 2015, 03:11:41 PM
I am watching this with great interest!

When it comes to a motor and spindle the originals will be far too heavy for this printed project. May I suggest you look at some of the electric helicopter motors that are available? Their power to weight ratio is awesome. (These are similiar but cheaper to the CNC Stepper spindle stuff that are available).  They also come with speed controllers.

After all its not really the size of the grinding wheel that matters its the surface RPM. So a small motor at 30,000 rpm can drive a quality mounted stone with enough surface speed to equate to a 75 mm cup wheel!

[I think :scratch:]
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 28, 2015, 03:22:27 PM
Shucks Will_D, I've been busted....  I was keeping that detail back that the spindle will most likely be a combination of Dremel and Foredom flex drive.  NO, I won't be printing the spindle....  In the meantime whats the smallest cup wheel you can get, how hard is it to make grinding tools by reworking existing small stones.

I did sort of hint early on about using a brushless motor to power a spindle....    :D

Your spot on Norman, I have looked at the Quorns using threaded rod to jack the spindle up and down, rack and pinion not really an option for printing as the part size would be too weak.   I fancy making the tool to do the spirals as you never know what the next small printed machine might be ?  This isn't going to be the last.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 29, 2015, 07:07:18 PM
After getting bugged about how to cut the spiral on the vertical column.  I started doing some more doodling and so far have this idea bubbling.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/Manual20Taig20Mill20Spiral20Cutting_zpsoi8mrfcl.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/Manual20Taig20Mill20Spiral20Cutting_zpsoi8mrfcl.jpg.html)

The column will be between centres and the large gear will clamp onto the column.  Since I have  a good quantity of 30mm bar left over I will print clamps to attach centres and supports for the bar.  Loading will be light as I intend to mill a 3mm slot on a 0.500" pitch hence the gear ratio 10:1 on the Taig mills 0.500" x 20tpi leadscrew.  Gears will be printed, but shafts turned and supported in bushes.  Still developing this one, so it could all change.

I have to give credit for the 3D Taig mill to Richard Crook, very useful model.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on December 31, 2015, 09:04:29 AM
Here's an example of going beyond the limit of a 0.4mm nozzle.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_20151231_133611_zpsltbp6tvo.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_20151231_133611_zpsltbp6tvo.jpg.html)

I printed both these scales at 0.1mm layers, I had tried looking to see if 0.05mm layer would improve resolution, but in this case I am up against the 0.45 blob resolution.  Scale on the left was printed first, due to the size of the graticules and characters printed, even gentle rub down soon showed problems like paint creeping along the grain between layers, and the dark line is a rounding adjustment as the printer goes to the next layer.  I increased the font size and picked something with thinner proportions.  Not much I could do with the graticules, they could have been added after, making them deeper would have been problematic in printing as the surface would start to ripple.

My next printer I hope to improve on things here by being able to use a 0.25mm nozzle, the simulation I ran showed very crisp detail if I could have printed it (<0.3mm blob)

Other than that, the scale is a good fit, so if I don't weld it in I have the option to reprint at a later date in higher resolution.  The workhead turntable is really giving me headaches, partly due to the scale around it and also making it as stiff a structure as I can.  I found a 16mm reamer in my tool draws, with hindsight  I should have adjusted the fit of parts to accommodate a 16mm spindle, but as things are now I break through on to the pivot.  Maybe remodel after we see how things work out.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on January 01, 2016, 05:02:49 PM
This afternoon in the workshop saw me completing the micrometer adjuster. However as I finished milling the grooves in the threaded insert I had made, I realised I had got the splines in the wrong orientation.   :palm:    I might be OK as it took some force to press the insert in, so it may stay put as is, but a drawing revision is in order and a spare part printing.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0086_zpsaaqiyx2j.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0086_zpsaaqiyx2j.jpg.html)

This is the underside of the print, so not very pretty.  I could have added a little more material and given it a quick skim in the lathe to give a pretty surface but it's not visible.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0082_zpsl1paby1t.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0082_zpsl1paby1t.jpg.html)

The Perspex threaded parts look like they are going to work, and can take quite a good load being 27mm of thread engaged.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0088_zpsvheyw0bb.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0088_zpsvheyw0bb.jpg.html)

Final assemble shot and a bit of furniture wax added to the threads.   If you want to learn how to screw cut, you can't beat using Perspex.  Easy to see the thread forming, tooling can be incredibly basic, even mild steel tools can be used.  For the internal threading my threading tool was made from s/steel tig wire.  Perspex is unforgiving of tight fits though, so you need to be accurate, but the material is so cheap you can try over and over again till you get it right.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: raynerd on January 01, 2016, 08:52:59 PM
 :thumbup:cracking work!
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: awemawson on January 02, 2016, 02:16:19 PM
Nowt wrong with Leeds Norman, I was born there many decades ago   :lol:

(mind you it's relatively clean now. When I left (1959) you definitely wouldn't hug a tree or you'd come off all black  :ddb:)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on January 03, 2016, 07:01:29 AM
Micrometer body reprinted with splines at correct end this time.  Whilst I had it apart waiting for the new body to print a quick picture of the insert, otherwise it all looks the same assembled.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/micrometer%20nut_zpsqzpyfmux.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/micrometer%20nut_zpsqzpyfmux.jpg.html)

I worked out a plan for the rotary table.  It will start off with a perspex spindle as that is easy to substitute for metal if needed.  The table is split in two parts, again to make best use of printed grain.  I chose a triangular plug for welding into the table and lock orientation of the bar support.  I have opened up the bar support to make use of my 16mm reamer and bulked this part up a bit as the walls are quite thin as standard.   About 10hrs for these parts to print, then ALOT of fine painting.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/Work%20Table%20Parts_zps5612ygqg.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/Work%20Table%20Parts_zps5612ygqg.jpg.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: mattinker on January 03, 2016, 07:37:09 AM
I've been watching this build with great interest even though I have no plans to get into 3D printing. You said you were going to use pinch bolts and split cotters as clamping systems. I would have though that split cotters, although largely superior on castings would be not so good in plastic for the same reasons that you said that metal inserts would not be very good. The cotters expand and would probably deform the plastic whereas clamping bolts encircle the stresses around the shaft. Your thoughts?

Regards, Matthew
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on January 03, 2016, 08:19:46 AM
Mattinker, I am hoping the forces needed to clamp the parts are very much reduced being plastic, also that the distortion will be in the area of the cotter if overtightened.  This is still all part of the learning process, it's quite feasible the cotter will distort and jam.  Split rings concentrate the stress at the pinch bolt, an option would be to build up a ring round the casting for extra support in this area.

As said early on, the design keeps changing as I mull over ideas and get input from others.  I hope it inspires others to have a go and learn from my success and failures.  It's a whole new game, to see if we can make some proper use of the technology in the home workshop.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: nrml on January 03, 2016, 05:56:57 PM
I've been pondering the tightening mechanism options ever since you first mentioned them and I wonder if a taper bush system like pulley mounts on motor shafts might work in plastic / polycarbonate. Large thumb screws (possibly printed ones) would enable fairly quick adjustment although it wouldn't be as quick as with a single locking point. But would that be a reasonable trade off for more even pressure distribution?
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on January 04, 2016, 04:20:50 AM
Not so great results from last nights prints.  The top layer delaminated when I removed the print from the 3M tape I print it on, it just gripped too well, maybe I also had a problem with high humidity considering the weather.  Next snag, though not unexpected, the numerals and graticules are almost lost in the noise.  They have printed too small and surrounded by ripple in some cases I have 3 10second marks !!!   So not a roaring success, but the rest of the print has turned out OK

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0090_zpsifkikltx.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0090_zpsifkikltx.jpg.html)

The fit of parts is pretty well spot on, a tight fit for the triangular key.  Once I weld it in and seal the edges, the top will get a coat of sanding seal to smooth it and keep the dust from working its way into the surface.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0089_zpsu3aj5d7a.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0089_zpsu3aj5d7a.jpg.html)

nrml, with hindsight I should have started just printing tubes and fasteners to work out what worked best and sizes to accommodate the various fits, but where's the fun in that.  I have also learned that thick wall prints don't have the same tolerance as the thin wall stuff I normally print, but overall it does seem consistent so I can work with that.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: nrml on January 11, 2016, 06:31:29 AM
Igus are doing a 3D printing filament for motion applications. I thought it might be something that might be useful on this project. http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/3d-printing-materials/8686895/
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on January 11, 2016, 11:17:18 AM
Nose back against the grindstone, so personal projects have ground to a halt.   Thanks nrml, I have seen the Igus filament BUT, at £265.20 kg  I will stick with PLA (£20.00 kg) and if needed machine Delrin inserts.  The Igus offering is great for the big boys, but being a little fish I would just buy in whatever size sleeve bearing they make and design around that.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: hanermo on March 21, 2016, 03:58:08 PM
Fantastic thread !
Great work.

I am very interested in actual results.

Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on June 23, 2016, 03:44:49 AM
Ahhh, its only taken about 6 months to get back to this project.  Work has slowed a bit and I got some workshop time for my own stuff.  Last time I had been thinking about making a reamer for the 3D prints in order to get the front bar inserted.  That idea got turned on its head, and I decided to machine the bar.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0038_zps7x4gk8g7.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0038_zps7x4gk8g7.jpg.html)

At this point I wished I had picked up a travelling steady for the Myford whilst I was at the Doncaster show.  I made a superb elongated lobed barrel...   :palm:

Good job this is my time...  Out with the wet and dry, using 3in1 oil as lube,  I have many hours of fun polishing it to size.  All is not lost, as my 3D print bores are also elliptical so the bar fits in two places.

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0036_zpsonpegahc.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0036_zpsonpegahc.jpg.html)

I used Sharpie on the bar to transfer the high spots.  I can now scrape the internal bore of the print to better match the bar, old technique modern materials.  Why aren't I machining these ?   Well, they are hard to hold and flexible, tools can too easily dig in.   It would have been better to design the part fit better from the start   :)   Now where's the fun in that...

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0037_zpsqsb367vq.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0037_zpsqsb367vq.jpg.html)

The bar fits and is a loose in the ends.  I can overcome this to some degree when I print the dust shields that fit on the prints and they can be classed as consumable items.

I'm pleased with how it's going the parts so far take only a few days to print.  Corrections and modifications to drawings are quick and easy depending what materials you have on hand.

The scraping tools work great by the way, just a tad more aggressive, so work gently.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: mexican jon on June 23, 2016, 04:34:06 AM
Loving this thread  :scratch: it's as mad as a box of frogs  :clap: :clap: I can't wait for the part where you print the motor  :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on June 23, 2016, 04:52:37 AM
Funny you should mention printing the motor.....



It's only any good for REALLY light grinding....

(http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y253/joulesbee/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0039_zps3i99as3h.jpg) (http://s7.photobucket.com/user/joulesbee/media/3D%20Prints/CORN%20EE/IMG_0039_zps3i99as3h.jpg.html)

Hand scraping took only a few minutes, wish I had thought about it yesterday.  Now a nice sliding fit on the bar, the cheap scraper tools I used are shown in the picture.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: ddmckee54 on June 23, 2016, 12:10:44 PM
Joules:

I really like your print quality.  I particularly admire the crispness of the printed text, how big is it?  What printer are you using and what are you using for a layer thickness when you print your parts?  I believe that you said some of those parts were 24 hour prints, what is your typical print speed?

At this point I'm still just dreaming of getting parts like those.

Don
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on June 23, 2016, 12:40:56 PM
Don, most of your questions are answered further back in the thread.  Longest print I think was 14hrs, nothing printed overnight usually started in the morning and removed it in the evening.  Minimum reliable text is >3mm.  Layers are a combination of 0.1-0.15mm depending on detail required (text etc)

Print speed is generally 50mm/s.   My printer is now discontinued but a good replacement I got some hands on time with is the Wanhao Duplicator 6  It's a new model along the lines of the Zortrax M200 but half the price.   It might also be worth pointing out my preferred software for slicing and printing is Simlify3D.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: ddmckee54 on June 24, 2016, 01:08:36 PM
Thanks Joules.  I skimmed through the thread, but I must have skimmed it too fast and missed the info.

Don
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: wagnmkr on July 27, 2016, 07:44:22 AM
I am enjoying this thread, particularly since I just got a 3d printer a week ago and you are inspiring me to do better things with it. I am amazed at what is possible with these hobby class machines.

Now, I really need to learn a drawing package.

Tom
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on July 27, 2016, 08:37:26 AM
Your welcome Tom, this particular project gets attention as and when, so no idea when it will get completed.  It has been a great teaching aid for me also, as the design and prints are challenging.  My intention will be to use the knowledge I learn here in other desktop 3D printed machinery applications.

It may get another big splurge of time around Christmas, when I have a few weeks off. 

Some good FREE (for now) 3D CAD software about, i.e Fusion360
Since I do this work professionally as well, I avoid Cloud based apps like the plague.  Always save your work in a format that can be transferred to other CAD packages, or bite the bullet and buy something outright.  That way you make a solid commitment to learn that package.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Baron on July 28, 2016, 07:22:05 AM

That idea got turned on its head, and I decided to machine the bar.
At this point I wished I had picked up a travelling steady for the Myford whilst I was at the Doncaster show.  I made a superb elongated lobed barrel...   :palm:


Now there could be a useful project, a printed travelling steady  :bugeye:

I have one but I also made a tool that clamped into the tool holder and had a hole drilled in the end with a cutter held in place with a grub screw so that a long workpiece could be passed through the hole.  Basically a travelling steady with a built in cutter.  You can get a very consistent diameter over a long length this way.
 
Anyway it looks like your project is progressing nicely.  I'm watching with interest.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: WeldingRod on June 09, 2018, 11:18:56 PM
How's the build coming?  Any chance of uploading models to Thingiverse or similar?
I just bought a 90% done Quorn, and I'm planning to print a new belt guard without the giant capacitor tomb built in it...

FYI, TheBloughs' models can be imported into Sketchup, but it looks like you've modified/improved things for printing.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: Joules on June 11, 2018, 09:12:28 AM
I can tell you all one thing...  Not a spot of rust on the Quorn, anywhere.  Hmmm 2yrs seem to have gone by.  Quite a bit happened here to push this on the backburner.   As stated at the very start it was more an adventure in 3D printing.  It proved the idea that a casting could be replaced with a well designed 3D print in light load applications.  Moving ever further from the bars with the part to be sharpened has proven to be more of an issue due to flexing in the thinner parts.  This also means resonance from the motor is an issue due to low mass and little damping.  I would like to get back to this design especially now I have more experience 3D printing rigid structures under my belt.  Just donít hold your breath on it being soon.

The design Iím afraid wonít be made publicly available, but by all means follow my lead and put your own spin on it.
Title: Re: 3D Printed Quorn Tool & Cutter Grinder
Post by: WeldingRod on September 14, 2018, 09:56:26 AM
Joules,  A technique you might look at is filling the cavities with something.  The resulting composite is likely to have more damping than the plastic.  I could see pouring in really fine sand, or runny epoxy.  If you go the epoxy way, you should check the coefficient of thermal expansion and make sure its not too far from the plastic.  Otherwise, it will walk around with temperature.
I've got my own Quorn now, and I'm quite happy with my 3D printed alignment jig!