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The Shop => Tools => Topic started by: PekkaNF on July 06, 2019, 03:09:51 PM

Title: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: PekkaNF on July 06, 2019, 03:09:51 PM
=2167

I know that corn or peanut husk is used for bras cases, but I'm not reloading. I need something to make steel parts uniform matt and nice. I don't have a sand blaster...something less dusty and smaller to replace it.

Where to get 2 kg of this sort of abrassive beans?

I can buy 25 bag of the real indrustrial stuff, but it is 10x too much and price is like 200Ä + VAT + this +that

Pekka
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: mcostello on July 06, 2019, 03:59:05 PM
Could You try something natural like rice?
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: Will_D on July 06, 2019, 04:22:55 PM
Afaik: Ammunition re-loaders use crushed walnut shells to tumble their cases. These and rice i'm sure wouldn't work on steel.

As you say the real ceramic beans (or whatever) are too expensive as they are bought in bulk.

What about small river pebbles, or glass beads ??

HTH: Will
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: charadam on July 06, 2019, 05:16:16 PM
How about stainless pins. Like this:  https://www.etsy.com/uk/listing/169008269/1-pound-of-stainless-steel-tumbling

I've been using 2kg of these for 5 years for brass cleaning, but IMO they should matt your steel nicely.
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: John Hill on July 06, 2019, 05:18:11 PM
I assume lapidary supply places would sell smaller quantities of a whole range of abrasives.

Meanwhile your local machine shop may have a bucket full of old, blunt or broken inserts?
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: awemawson on July 06, 2019, 05:19:40 PM
Washed 6 mm pea shingle. Just blag a sample from your local builders merchant. It's sold in ton bags locally but also in 'handy bags' (20 kg) and it's not uncommon for people to want to match what they are buying to what they already have.

https://www.jewson.co.uk/search-results/?keywords=gravel
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: appletree on July 07, 2019, 06:01:59 AM
Possibly too coarse for what you need but works fine and cheap as chips. Get a toughened glass car side window pop it in a plastic bag hit it with a hammer break up the bits that are cracked but not separated. The shards are about 5 to 6mm cubes initially used ia a small machine as pictured above later built a bigger one. The glass is sharp and leaves a suitable finish on most metals I have tried, use wet or dry, lasts a good while

Phil
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: PekkaNF on July 07, 2019, 07:06:13 AM
Yes stailess steel pins are used in rotary tumbler to clean cases but I bought a vibratory model, like in opening post.

Lotsa different abrsavises and ceramic/pebels ec. are used in rotarty tumblers to make rocks round, but I think that it would be too hard for metals.

Possibly too coarse for what you need but works fine and cheap as chips. Get a toughened glass car side window pop it in a plastic bag hit it with a hammer break up the bits that are cracked but not separated. The shards are about 5 to 6mm cubes initially used ia a small machine as pictured above later built a bigger one. The glass is sharp and leaves a suitable finish on most metals I have tried, use wet or dry, lasts a good while

Phil

I like the idea of tempered glass shrapnel. Must find a tempered glass. Thak you.

Do you use glass only or do you use some other "pebles" with it?
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: appletree on July 07, 2019, 08:21:42 AM
I use just the glass on its own, sometimes with water and a couple of drips of washing up liquid.
For cleaning moderate size rusty castings I put them in an electric cement mixer with plenty of gravel.

Phil
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: AdeV on July 07, 2019, 01:02:01 PM
Some years ago, I used nuts  :lol:

https://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,3453.msg37310.html#msg37310

It didn't really do that much, though, so next time I think I'll try gravel  :scratch:
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: Bluechip on July 08, 2019, 09:09:03 AM
All those aeons ago when I did lapidary I used Poultry Grit. Not just ordinary Poultry Grit but FLINT  Poultry Grit.

EG:  https://www.amazon.co.uk/Agrivite-Flintgrit-Poultry-1-5kg-Packaging/dp/B003ZG5452/ref=sr_1_20?_encoding=UTF8&camp=1634&creative=19450&keywords=poultry+grit&linkCode=ur2&qid=1562590878&s=pet-supplies&sr=1-20

Usually obtainable from Farmers Suppliers not just Amazon / ebay etc.

The mixed / oyster-shell stuff is too soft, or though it will possibly polish as per walnut shells.

Fairly cheap ( or cheep  :lol:   )

Dave
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: Will_D on July 08, 2019, 03:48:16 PM
Fairly cheap ( or cheep  :lol:   )

+50 on the humor
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: tom osselton on July 08, 2019, 11:12:53 PM
And it doesnít go egg shaped?
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: Bluechip on July 09, 2019, 06:37:42 AM


Lay off, you two .....



.....................................................................   :palm:

Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: AdeV on July 09, 2019, 11:44:20 AM
Don't let them ruffle your feathers....

 :scratch: :palm:
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: howsitwork? on July 09, 2019, 03:15:14 PM
crowing about it doesnít make it right , :doh:
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: PekkaNF on July 10, 2019, 08:45:08 AM
Now, when pecking order and correct flint stone size is established, I can tell that the tubler is awaiting on the post office.

I have exhausted official reasonable acquisition channels for proper deburring media for low carbon steels and tool steels.

Looks like there are many options and all of them has some complications and benefits. Luckily I am just looking for a reasonable hobby solution for inferequent use. Seems to simplify a whole lot of stuff. Once I visited a compound bow manufacturer in US and they had a tubler to remove flash out of glassfibre, all looked very simple, but they told that it took some time to arrive with optimal media.

I though the whole thing would be really simple, and maybe it is: There are some machinining companies that use this method for deburring. I am thinkking of paying a visit and buy/beg small amount proper deburring media. Those comppanies have done their homework, should work for me too.

My "Plan B" is to visit my father/brother, they have collectionf of old junk and cars on the farm, possibly one extra securit window somewhere to do a little sience with it and sudden impact.
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: chipenter on July 10, 2019, 04:31:33 PM
You can also buy crushed glass for block paving instead of sharp sand , be aware that it is very sharp .
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: PekkaNF on July 16, 2019, 05:55:09 AM
Conacted two metal firms that do metal polishing and deburring. Another doesn't do it anymore (apparently a lot of manufacturing has been relocated on low cost countries to lower manufacturing quality) and another does manually. Both knew what was after but could offer only synpathy.

I made few enquiries about crushed glass, for some reason very fine as a blasting media is really easy to get, but real granules are unoptainable, next step is decoration size.

How ever local hardware store had "foam glas" for insulation, I really don't know what that is in English 50 litre bad weights about 20 kg and costs 14 Euros. Since it is actually a usefull medium temp insulation material it probably has more use as a . insulation.

It is pretty friable and floats atop of water. I put some parts for about 40-60 minutes cycle to it, checkking every 10 minutes and a tool steel shank come out really nice. Other parts were interesting. This media knoks off finest burr, and matts the surface if it of decent quality, but really strugles with pitting/rust etc. Good news it that matte-finish ir really shallow, hardly any dimenssional change, dis nothing to internal holes or threads.

Looks consumbale, the media rounded off fast and a 30% of it was reduced to sludge. I washed them to start with. Sludge/dust is easily rinsed off, it is really fine and hard so see how it would have any enviromental hazard.

It would be pretty good if it were a whole lot harder/heavier. Maybe good for plastic or other soft material.

I have a problem with "stone", think there is danger of leaving hard particles behind. But might need to try that one next.

Pekka
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: assink on July 18, 2019, 05:23:24 AM
Cant you use basalt gravel or something like that? The stuff you would use on drive ways?
We have drainage pipes in our fields, they used "glass ash" that stuff was rock hard and cheap.
I suppose is some sort of crushed slag, dont know if it's available in ur area.
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: PekkaNF on July 18, 2019, 06:33:11 PM
Yes that could be one choice. I have that in my backyard a litle heap left from paving work. We use a lot of under the concrete tiles outside to level harder cruched rock bed. However I would hate to have any of that left into threads or such.

I ordered a 2x5kg set of differetn abrassive pyramids and for polishing ceramic cylinders + little polishing liquid that has antirust properties. All from Germany from a small comppany that is specialized on this sort of products, they don't normally deal with private customers, shiping was 40 EUR, but they definantely seem to know their stuf.

Pekka
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: PekkaNF on August 18, 2019, 05:47:31 AM
Forgot yo update. Some results here.

First 45 mins and then one hour more tumbling. It does remove burr, but does not change dimenssions any measurable way.
Cut "lip" somewhat smaller and left burr untouched after turning: P8181780c

Same part after one hour of "tumbling": P8181789c

El cheapo small tumbler is ok for mostly small parts I bougt it for. Would be nice, if the bowl would be more donugh shape (it would rotate the parts more and it would be faster to pick them up when they surface). Also would be nice to have quick connect bowls for easy change (different media or material).

One thing I don't know is how much to use this "cutting oil" that bought with it.
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: Joules on August 18, 2019, 06:18:43 PM
Quite taken by this thread, I saw Stefanís video when he released it and had been looking at tumblers for a while.  I finally bite the bullet  LOL  and ordered a Lyman Pro 1200.
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: PekkaNF on August 19, 2019, 05:25:25 AM
Quite taken by this thread, I saw Stefanís video when he released it and had been looking at tumblers for a while.  I finally bite the bullet  LOL  and ordered a Lyman Pro 1200.

Great. Some peer support :wave: What metal and use you have for it?

I found fairly easy information about case polishing and rock rumbling, but really could not find any HMS level information.

When I used the foam glass, I came to conclusion that it was way too light weight for solid metal objects - looking at tumbler working it would appear that there is a benefit if the parts and aggregate are somewhat of same density.

I bought these:

1: Deburing:
https://www.avatec.de/en/verfahrensmittel/ceramic-media/triangle/ke-d-46-6-10-10-in-5-kg-bags2

2: Satining:
https://www.avatec.de/en/verfahrensmittel/ceramic-media/cylinder-angle-cut/ke-zs-22-4-3-10-in-5-kg-bags1

3: liquid for color metals, testing with steel:
https://www.avatec.de/en/verfahrensmittel/compound/compound-vf-109-in-5-kg-kanister

Where I am at now is deburing of steel. Not really done any good experiments with the cutting/polishing/protective liquid part. I hear it has an effect and I can see that debris does not stick to abrasive media when I use is, but amount, dilution, etc. are a big question mark. I am not sure how subtle the effect is.

Half of the reason for shelling out money, was to see if "satining" could be used in lieu of media blasting. I haven't tried it yet.

Pekka
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: Joules on August 19, 2019, 05:44:33 AM
https://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,4342.0.html

The above link might be if interest if you havenít already seen it.  My area of interest is in fastener polishing, or satining.  Use heatshrink or cable sleeve on the thread as I donít want those touched.  I might also try some masking for marking items by tumbling.   The number one use will be for tumbling small 3D prints to reduce/remove the layer lines.

No doubt other uses will pop up as we play  :thumbup:

Oh, and thanks for the heads up on matching tumbling media to density of object being tumbled.
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: PekkaNF on August 19, 2019, 07:44:43 AM
Thank you for the link. I don't know how I missed it. Must read in the evening.
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: Joules on August 19, 2019, 10:42:56 AM
Take a look at aquarium gravel, I am looking for cheap media to try with such as Brasso and paraffin.  The Aquarium gravel is very regular in size and probably more suited for smaller parts, plus I can get bags of the stuff locally at a pet shop.
Title: Re: Burr and matting media for vibratory tumbler to nicefy steel
Post by: Joules on August 19, 2019, 12:10:45 PM
 :D

Not forgetting the ultimate tumbler video from Photonicinduction.