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Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: sbwhart on April 18, 2010, 06:49:27 AM

Title: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on April 18, 2010, 06:49:27 AM
Hi Chaps

I've been putting this off long enough.

But first a warning:- boilers are pressure vessel and are dangerous they are not to be taken lightly, if they fail they can cause serious injury, so due care needs to be taken when you build one. Make sure you understand the boiler regulations that apply to your part of the world, and if you have no experience of boiler building, find someone who is that can guide and mentor you.

I did a lot of research on boiler building, to some extent this was a mistake as I found a lot of contradiction in design and methods, to such an extent that I was seriously looking into buying a commercially made boiler, but this would have cost up to 1500, but I began to realise that methods and thinking have changes over the years and talking to club members and the clubs boiler inspector cleared a lot of the uncertainty up, and with encouragement I decided to have a go at building my own.

To help you Guys to understand some of the term used in the UK I've done a Crap-O-Cad of the type of boiler I will be making.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/scan0001.jpg)

By way of explanation of some of the terms:-

Stays:- addition support given to flat services

Supper Heater Tubes:- these are large tubes through which pipe work runs that takes "wet steam" collected in the steam dome back through fire box to give it an extra dose of heat.

Throat Plate:- front part of the outer fire box

Foundation Ring:- This fills the space between the outer and inner fire box

Front and Fire box Tube plate:- These are the plates that the Flue and Superheater tubes fit too.

I think the rest of the bits are self explanatory.

I bought a boiler kit for my Loco from Reeves it cost 290.

This is the kit of parts.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3558.jpg)

Everyone I've spoken to has given me the same bit of advise:- the key to good boiler making is in the preparation, so over the next week or two I'm going to spend some preparing for the build.

The adventure begins

Stew










Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on April 19, 2010, 03:52:27 AM
I for one will be watching this build  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on April 19, 2010, 04:02:20 AM
Yer a much braver man than me Stew!

Good on yer!  :clap:

Hats off to you...... Good luck!  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: lordedmond on April 19, 2010, 05:37:05 AM
sbwhart

1 make sure you have enough heat   42 mm burner or bigger
2 Check and triple check the drawings for foul up's I did a Doris and the drawing had the hole for the regulator shaft lower than the fire box wrapper  :jaw:
3 you can use citric acid as a pickle best to use a tall square plastic wast bin

above all listen to your boiler inspector  and don't forget to show him/her each stage of progress , take some pic to show the solder penetration as you go


Loco's to date Doris 3 1/2"  didcot 14xx 5"  Br class 2 tender 5"   and under construction a BR class 4 tank to D Hewsons plans been at it for two years and have just about done the chassis

BTW the 14xx and the class 4 tank are both fully scale with the 14xx having about 4000 1/32 rivets in the plate work ( done properly not stuck it )

I used to do my own boilers up to the doris fiasco now I get them built Class 4 cost upward of 2.5 k
Stuart
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on April 19, 2010, 06:18:56 AM
Hi Stuart

Welcome aboard the cube  :borg:

Thanks for the information/advice as this is the first loco boiler Ive built I need all the advice I can get.

4000 rivets  :bugeye: you wouldn't have a pic of that would you ?

 :worthless:

Feel free to post it her or start your own thread.

Thanks again

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: lordedmond on April 19, 2010, 07:03:02 AM
not at this time as the cab roof is off for maint to the steam fountain

the bunker is done with backing straps for the plate as per full size
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on April 22, 2010, 08:32:26 AM
OK Made a start not to exciting but every journey begins and ends with a step.

You may think I'm sad but I like to plan out jobs as best I can before I start, I use to make my living designing building and testing items that could be a bit hazardous, if you didn't get your preparation right:- I just can't get out of the habit.

So after much reading and talking to people and listening to advice, I made out a list of items I thought I may need I may end up not using everything but its better to be prepared than wanting. I started my To Do List I'll add to this as thing progress, and as putting a boiler together is complicated and the order of assembly is important:- I listed the order I would assemble the boiler, I may combine some of the operations or even change things round a bit as they go but the shear act of making the list helps make things clearer in your mind:- its all part of the learning curve.

Her's the lists

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3580.jpg)

The first job I thought I would tackle was to make some clamps I want to leave them outside to go rusty so that the solder wont stick to them to easy so the sooner I get them made the better.

A rummage through the scrap box turned these bits of material up.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3576.jpg)

I burn the paint off the long bars and just squared the ends and sides up in the mill and drilled and tapped them as for toolmakers clamps, they will get a bit of heat so nothing too posh, as long as they will do the job.

The shorter bars again were squared up and a slot milled across and the end drilled and tapped M5, I rounded the jaws off in two of these so that I could grip the rim of the tube without the sharp edges damaging the soft copper.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3578.jpg)

I was going to make a pair of tongs but them I remembered these.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3579.jpg)

I bought them at a car boot sale many years ago, don't know why I just thought they would be handy one day, well their day has arrived  ;D

Cheers

Stew




Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on April 22, 2010, 09:29:26 AM
Stew,

That posting is completely about how you do your forward planning........

Starting, long ago, with the tongs!  :thumbup:

Nice one!  :clap:

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on April 22, 2010, 10:42:17 AM
Hi Stew, I'm really looking forward to this build, I've put off building a few steam engines because I was leary about building a boiler, yet didn't want to just build an "air" engine, and run it off of the compressor.  I expect to follow this one very closely, and see if there is anything keeping me from going ahead, and building one, and finishing up a steam engine, long ago started, but just barely, and definitely calling out in desparation.  The price of the kit sound's high, but from the look of it, you got what you paid for, the parts are good looking and substantial, and ought to end up making the build fairly straight forward.  Good luck and take lots of pictures, a lot of us are counting on you!!! :jaw: :thumbup: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on April 22, 2010, 12:27:29 PM
Thanks Dave and Jack

Jack like you I've been very wary about building a boiler but short of making an electric loco you can't avoid it, the guys at the club are real keen on people building their own they've all done it so they see no reason why any one can, but I still feel nervous about it, not as much now that I've started.

Any way bit more progress I checked the kit of part out and to be honest the flanging is very rough, they look like a Gorilla with a sledge hammer went to work on them. The fire box tube plate should fit in the boiler tube:- No way its about 3mm big

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3585.jpg)

So decided to make a set of former plates and do the job myself, for one off use you can make formers from hardwood or MDF, but the last time I used hard wood I ended up with an allergic rash that took a month to clear up, so nothing for is I'll just have to use ally jog plate a lot more hard work, but one thing old Stewpot is not afraid of is hard work, so after 1 1/2 hr a sore arm, and a bucket of sweat, I got them rough cut out of the plate.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3582.jpg)

The smoke box tube plate former is round so, the rough cut plate was set up for friction turning.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3590.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3591.jpg)

Before taking an hammer to the copper I annealed it by taking it to a red heat and quenching it in water, this gave me a good feal for the size of burner I'll have to use when I come to solder I ended up using my next to largest burner.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3593.jpg)

The build guide recommends allowing 3/64 for the plate thinning under the hammer but I gradually reduced the dia of the former trying the tube plate in the tube taking a bit more of the former bashing the plate and tryinng it in the tube until I got a nice push fit.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3595.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3605.jpg)

Next job the fire box former, this is a job for the mill.

I squared the plate up then dolloped some blue on the plate then I used a centre and the DRO feature on the mill and a set of compasses to mark out the shape of the former and and hole positions I then centre popped all round the line.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3602.jpg)

Back on the mill to mill the shape out you could use the RT for the Radiuses but that level of accuracy is not required I used a trusty old file to bring the shape to the scribed line.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3603.jpg)

Her's the former and the tidied up fire box plates.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3606.jpg)

Cheers

Stew



Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Darren on April 22, 2010, 01:43:41 PM
Very nice Stew, I found that quite informative  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on April 22, 2010, 03:56:41 PM
Nice work, Stew!  :thumbup:

David.
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on April 22, 2010, 05:19:05 PM
wow Im impressed with this build and Im learning as I go
great work mate :thumbup: :clap:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on April 22, 2010, 10:04:54 PM
Good work on this, Stew.  I always like your build threads.

Dean
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: lordedmond on April 23, 2010, 03:22:52 AM
that burner will not be big enough to SS the boiler

if you use that one you will need another for the actual SS work use that one to pre/hold the main heat

do not make the joints to tight the SS needs room to flow into and though the joint , under no circumstances rivet the joints up tight


Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on April 23, 2010, 03:59:00 AM
Thanks for your comments chaps

And thanks for the advice and input lordedmond,

I have a second burner to add more heat but have yet to get a second propane tank.

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on April 23, 2010, 10:18:10 AM
Nice work Stew, beware the man with more than one hammer, he may know how to use them!  I have much respect for a man who can use a hammer, and end up with a good looking, well fitting part, not covered in hammer marks.  All that work on the tube plate along with the pristine fire box plates will look beautiful when it is soldered together.  Great start on the boiler :bow: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Brass_Machine on April 24, 2010, 06:40:45 PM
Great start on the boiler Stew. One of the things holding me back is making the end plates. Looks like you got through it pretty good. Maybe this winter I will give it a try. Hopefully mine will turn out at least half as nice as yours.  :clap:

Eric
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Buddpig on April 25, 2010, 03:56:32 PM
I have a 3d solid model of an 1 1/2 scale 0 6 0 boiler, its almost completed, few more things to do, if you are interested I can Email it to you, It would not let me attach it on here, when I zipped it then opened it back up with a dxf import , it was not a solid model anymore.

Cheers
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on April 27, 2010, 02:33:46 PM
Thing have been a little slow, bin on Gardening Duties and looking after our grand son.

Any way made some progress with a backward step thrown in, more about this later.

Made the former for the backhead plate you this former for the throat plate as well. First square it up so that you've got four good edges on each face, then blue it up and mark it out on the mill.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3608.jpg)

Then centre pop the line to give you something to work too.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3607.jpg)

Then mill out the shape I used the rotory table this time, it just fitted the clamping is not too elligant, but hay:- its effective.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3609.jpg)

Then it was just a matter of tidying up the plates on the former her they are all done with the formers.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3610.jpg)

Now to drill the tube plates now I know that "drilling soft copper can be tricky",  :bang: I've seen lots of pics where guys have mounted tubes plates onto lathe face plates so that the holes can be bored because "drilling soft copper can be tricky" :bang: but for some reason I decided to do the drilling on my pillar drill, its not a bad pillar drill but its not as good as my mill for drilling, I clamped the smoke box tube plate onto a plank of wood and drilled the first 3/8" hole all was well, now I know that "drilling soft copper can me tricky", :bang: second ran out nearly into the first hole that I drilled, I stopped and tried rectifying it by drilling from the other side but this only made things worse:- strike one tube plate

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

OK it's a scrapper:- so decided to drill the rest of the holes any way to perfect the best method.

Over too the mill:- this is the set up, the plate was position over a slot for the drill to run into and clamping onto a chunk of wood in the middle, so the flange wouldn't be damaged.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3611.jpg)

That worked like a dream why didn't I do that to begin with  :bang:

OK have a go with the 3/4" supper heater holes now I know that "drilling soft copper can me tricky",   :bang: so similar set up, but this time I sat the plate on some parallels flat side on, as the 3/4" was to wide to fit between a slot,:-a 3/8" pilot drill then straight in with the 3/4" now I know that "drilling soft copper can me tricky",  :bang: that one wandered off centre as well I should have used another pilot drill.

OK second 3/4" hole this time 3/8" followed by 1/2" followed by 3/4" perfect

This is the scrap plate, the 3/4" hole on the left is the one that run out. you can work out for your selves which 3/8" hole went wrong.


(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3612.jpg)

Guess what I'll be buying at the Harrogate show, still I've got the formers know.

Stew

Who knows that "drilling soft copper can me tricky"  :bang:




Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: P.J on April 27, 2010, 03:33:23 PM

Stew

Who knows that "drilling soft copper can me tricky"  :bang:


Not sure it's possible given the shape of the plate you'r drilling... But you can try
clamping the copper plate between two thicker pieces (1/4") of aluminium and drilling through all 3.
This usualy results in a perfectly round hole with nice crisp edges when working with soft or thin materials.. allthough marking out and making sure the hole ends up where it's ment can be a bit of a pain..

Maybe it's possible to turn a 1/4 plate with an OD fitting the ID of the copper cap, mark out on the alu plate and clamp the whole contraption to a second alu plate, drill the holes and Bobs your uncle? :)

Keep up the good work  :clap:

/PJ
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on April 27, 2010, 03:40:56 PM
Hard luck there Stew but I think you have it sorted now.
soft copper has always been a pain to drill.

keep up the great work mate :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Artie on April 27, 2010, 04:57:14 PM
G'day Stew, this thread is particularly of interest to me because Im gearing up to do the same for my build. Im at the stage where I need the boiler soon as its the mount for the cylinders and crossheads. Im watching with interest  :wave:

I like your attention to detail, its going to pay off in the end, it always does. I dont know what your silver soldering skils are like but if you havent dont much the ruined plate could be a bonus. I would get some scrap tube and practise on it before you attack the real thing... it can be a bit tricky at times.

I am of the opinion "drilling soft copper can me tricky"  :bang:, the method mentioned by PJ is a sure one. Youve already got the formers why not drill them and use them as drilling guides? You just need another piece to go behind them (simple flat square) these wont need to be drilled......

Also, if you can repair and resize the end plate, I think you can make a new one from scratch... seeing what you have done to date...I have faith in your abilities....

I cant believe how much the kit cost, amazing, talk pressure vessel and you start adding zero's to the end of a normal price range... ridiculous...

Looking good.

Cheers

Rob T
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Rob.Wilson on April 28, 2010, 02:15:12 AM
Hi Stew  :wave:

Very interesting build  :thumbup:  ,,,,,,,,copper can be a real pian to drill  :bang:  i have posted the way i drill copper and other sheet material on another thread as i did not want to spoil yours http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=3042.msg32719#new
Keep up the great work

Cheers Rob
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on April 28, 2010, 03:03:47 AM
Thanks for your tips and input guys between us we will get this job done.  :thumbup:

Thanks Rob

I picked your drill thread up, I'm going to have a practice grinding some drills like that, my Dad was the charge hand in a little shop that refurbished tooling for a large production shop, he use to grind drills up like that all the time, he's still with us but no longer has the faculties to show me how to do it.

We're going over to Buxton today with a diversion to maccmodels https://www.maccmodels.co.uk/ so that I can pic up some copper sheet, my Boss doesn't know it yet  :D

Thanks again

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: andyf on April 28, 2010, 03:07:10 AM

We're going over to Buxton today with a diversion to maccmodels https://www.maccmodels.co.uk/ so that I can pic up some copper sheet, my Boss doesn't know it yet  :D


Stew, you may already know that MaccModels opening hours can be a bit erratic, and that it's a good idea to call first to make sure they are going to be open.

Andy
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on April 28, 2010, 03:12:12 AM

We're going over to Buxton today with a diversion to maccmodels https://www.maccmodels.co.uk/ so that I can pic up some copper sheet, my Boss doesn't know it yet  :D


Stew, you may already know that MaccModels opening hours can be a bit erratic, and that it's a good idea to call first to make sure they are going to be open.

Andy

Your quite right there Andy I've had a couple of wasted journeys they seem to have lunch hours that last all day, great little shop though its like an Aladins cave.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on April 28, 2010, 03:21:16 AM
while your at Maccmodles Stew check if my order has left mate  :)
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on April 29, 2010, 02:15:41 PM
while your at Maccmodles Stew check if my order has left mate  :)

I'm sorry but I didn't get the post until after I left, if you PM me I'll give them a bell and chase them up for you.

If it was a leg pull :- Nice one  :thumbup:

Any way picked up a nice bit of 2.5mm thick copper the drawing spec is for 13g 2.33mm so its on the safe side, while I was their they cut me a 2" lump of 15/8 phos bronze for the steam dome bush, and I also picked up a length of 1/8 phos bronze to make some closing screws, and a rod of Easy Flo No1 silver solder this has a slightly higher  melting point than Easy Flo No2 that I'm going to use on the bulk of the boiler, but their are a couple of places that I want to use this higher melting point solder, as the joint will be subject to quite bit of high temperatures when I'm soldering additional joints close by.

Work on the new fire box tube plate first job mark out a circle 3 7/8 dia (3 3/8 + 2 * 1/4) the 1/4 is so that the flange can be formed.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3613.jpg)

Then mark a 3 3/8 dia circle so the former can be centred, then anneal the plate, clamp the disc in the vice with the former and start to fold the flanges over with hammer blows, the copper starts to work harden quite quickly you can feel the material stiffen under the hammer don't try and force it or the copper will split, anneal the plate again.

This is it after the second anneal.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3615.jpg)

In total I annealed it 7 times before the flange had formed over onto the former.

This is it complete after an hour in the pickle bath.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3635.jpg)

Well that me back where I started before I try drilling the plate again I'm going to have a bit of an experiment and make some kit that should make the job easyer.

This is going to be a bit  :offtopic: I want to grind a drill up specifically for sheet metal whilst searching my drill stash for a spare 3/8 and 3/4 drills I came across this sorry site:-

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3622.jpg)

I must have picked it up out of the scrap where I use to work.

So I decided to give it some TLC, my Dad taught me how to grind drills up by hand when I was an apprentice many years ago, and like riding a bike its just something I can do, if you asked me to explain it I couldn't, I could show you but explain it no.

Any way this is the result.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3631.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3632.jpg)

And the proof of the pudding.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3634.jpg)

Still got the touch  :D

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on April 29, 2010, 03:58:37 PM
I`m sitting here smiling Stew.......

You`re right. Just like riding a bike.  :thumbup:

I couldn`t explain how to do it though.......  :scratch:

Very nice work!  :clap: :clap:

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on April 29, 2010, 05:45:32 PM
Sorry bout the leg pull mate ::)
your doing some realy great work there :D :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 01, 2010, 06:45:47 AM
No Problem shoey you can't beat a bit of leg pull    :)

Quick up date.

John has kindly given me a loan of some imperial step drills:- Thanks John

But I found a problem in using them three of the holes are right up against the flange and the drill will catch it.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3645.jpg)

So I ground a 3/8 drill up as suggested by Rob  :thumbup: but it cut too 0.020" over size but I found a 23/64 drill among my stash, most of these drill I inherited from my Dad and its a weard and wonderful collection, but don't knock it you can't beat weard .  :nrocks: . So I ground that up and it gave a hole that cleaned up nicely with a 3/8 hand reamer.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3659.jpg)

Hand a practice with the scrap tube plate, I used a drop of milk as a cutting fluid as suggested by John:- Semi skimmed worked ok

And this is the result.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3661.jpg)

The bit of sheet is 0.5 mm thick

Top Job

I then drilled 3mm pilot holes in the former using the mill DRO this is the set up.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3669.jpg)

And made a stubby centre pop out of a bit of 3mm silver steel (drill rod)

And marked the position of the holes in the new boiler tube.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3641.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3642.jpg)

I decided not to drill the tubes just yet as I wont to ask the boiler inspector a couple of questions, I'm a bit concerned with the closeness of some of the tubes to the flange, the drill will just kiss the flange, and I was wondering if a should slightly reposition these holes.

So I'll get on with something else.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on May 01, 2010, 08:20:14 AM

Stew

Who knows that "drilling soft copper can me tricky"  :bang:


Not sure it's possible given the shape of the plate you'r drilling... But you can try
clamping the copper plate between two thicker pieces (1/4") of aluminium and drilling through all 3.
This usualy results in a perfectly round hole with nice crisp edges when working with soft or thin materials.. allthough marking out and making sure the hole ends up where it's ment can be a bit of a pain..

Maybe it's possible to turn a 1/4 plate with an OD fitting the ID of the copper cap, mark out on the alu plate and clamp the whole contraption to a second alu plate, drill the holes and Bobs your uncle? :)

Keep up the good work  :clap:

/PJ
Stew, if you've got a bunch of holes to drill in copper, such as a tube plate or the like, you can take a drill bit, and use a stone to make the cutting lips of the bit parallel with the centerline of the bit, essentially giving it zero or negative rake, and it will drill far better.  Milk is a good cutting solution especially with modified drill bits, for copper.  The same is true about bits drilling into any copper alloy, doing this will keep the bit from jumping in full depth, and half way off the mark when you just "touch off", especially good for aluminum bronze which has broken my heart many times, as I sat there and stared at the remnants of the drill bit remaining in the hole, and the shank still in the chuck.  mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on May 01, 2010, 08:24:22 AM
Jack I have heard of that solution myself but have never tried it.
keep up the great work  Stew :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on May 01, 2010, 08:37:50 AM
Stew, I use copper plate to back up steel which needs welding together, but has a large gap between pieces, the weld doesn't stick to the copper, it sinks the heat too fast, and it allows a second pass, will full power, from the second side, knowing your first weld has full integrity.  Getting the blocks and pieces of copper to fit where they need to go usually means cutting and drilling.  I used to have a set of drills just for copper and such alloys, but I don't do as much of that work any more, so I experience the joys of breakage more often.
    You can take an actual dull drill bit, lay the cutting edge on a stone with the bit parallel to the table, and just cut about thirty thousandths of a flat, and then flip the drill, and match the flat, keeping the point centered, and it will cut well.  Urine is supposed to work well as a cutting fluid too, but I haven't ever considered trying it, my machines might think bad thoughts of me.  I will repeat, I have seldom seen such fine hammer work, few people have the patience to take the time and do it right and try to muscle it to the end, that last piece you show looks almost like it went through a die, just that little wiggle in the edge gives away the hand work.  I'm really looking forward to see this build run, you are a smith, by any good judge. :jaw: :jaw: :clap: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 06, 2010, 12:58:33 PM
Thanks for the good information Guys its information like this that can pull a job out of the mire.

At the club night on Tuesday I took my scrap tube plate along more to get the Chaps talking and it really paid off, some of the old guys are have lots of experience building boilers, along with offers of help if I got stuck I got lots of advice and tips to get the job going.

Any way on with the tube plates:-

I clamped a chunk of wood and drilled a hole though it to clear the drill and another for a clamp bolt.

This is the set up.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3699.jpg)

To drill the holes I started them with a centre drill then for the 3/8 a 8mm cone drill and then a letter U drill the guys at the club recommend not reaming to size but to leave it slightly under size and turn a small step on the boiler tube, this way it will have something to sit against and not fall through when you start to solder.

I used the cone drill for the 3/4 as this was giving a hole that was under size on the tube again I'll take a fine skim off the tube.

Here they are finished.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3700.jpg)

Next job skim the boiler tube square and too length.

So that the chuck won't damage the tube I turned up a wood plug a nice tight fit in the tube.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3691.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3693.jpg)

With one plug in the chuck end I couldn't get the tube running true at the steady end as the tube was oval so I turned a second plug up for that end as well this pulled the ovality out of the tube.

This is the set up

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3695.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3696.jpg)

I just could,t have done this with the 3 point steady as it was.

Cheers

Stew



Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on May 06, 2010, 02:34:28 PM
Lobley jubley looking good Stew.

by the way mate the part I ordered from maccmodles did turn up yesterday
it was a small steam pump for my 7.25 gauge loco

cheers Graham
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on May 06, 2010, 03:42:07 PM
Very nice work there Stew!  :clap:

The only time I`ve needed my steady, was to support a 7" length of 1" dia alloy tube.... The brass pads scored the soft alloy!  :bang:

The next time, I will have fitted ball bearings, probably!  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 07, 2010, 02:35:44 AM
Graham

Pleased you got your bit from maccmodles, there a bit of a two man show, Grandfather and Grandson they work out of a little terraced house that seems to be full of model stuff a real Alladins cave, always nice to chat with them, the Grandson runs the internet side of things, this seem to keep them in business, When you say steam pump do you mean injector, I know some of the larger Locos have steam driven pumps to feed the boiler with water is this the case with your loco.

Thanks Dave

The brass pads on the steady did scratch the tube but nothing to worry about the scratches had no depth and they won't be seen under the boiler cladding, I  lubricated them with just a drop of oil.

See you at Harrogate tomorrow.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on May 07, 2010, 03:02:35 AM
Stew this is the pump i bought
(http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s208/Graham-Jilly/new%20loco/001.jpg)
If I had had plans I might have had a go at making one myself but couldnt find any so bought this off them :D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Divided he ad on May 07, 2010, 11:46:28 AM
Looks like your having fun Stew  :thumbup:


I can see this is going to be a good long thread with lots of useful info in it   :smart:





Have fun at Harrogate :thumbup: 

I'll have to rely on others pic's this year.... Just can't justify the costs at the mo'  :(





Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on May 07, 2010, 12:07:19 PM
Stew, you have a master's hand with copper, it is a joy to see such beautiful work, I expect I will have to copy that boiler one of these days, when I get around to finishing the steam engine I started before the radial, but has been shelved for a couple years.  I have often considered using various odds and ends, such as cappuchino makers and the like, for a boiler for a steam engine, but watching this build makes that feel like cheating to an extreme.  Thanks for all the great pictures and for the fine narrative to go with them and explain them. :jaw: :jaw: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 12, 2010, 06:27:25 AM
Ralph/Jack/Graham

Thanks for your comments chaps

Graham there's a guy building a steam pump in Model Engineer at the moment.

Things have slowed down a bit on the boiler build I've got a paying job that will take up some of my time for the next couple of week.

Got a bit done drilled the holes in the Backhead sorry no pics and made a start on the boiler tube.

Marking it out used the mill table as a flat face.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3713.jpg)

In order to hold the tube steady for cutting I used this clamp I made it a few years back for another job:- can't remember what  :scratch:
Just two pieces of wood with a coach bolt.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3714.jpg)

This is it in use

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3718.jpg)

I used a junior hacksaw to do the business, this one has a sentimental attachment for me my father made it many years ago, I didn't want to use a 12" saw as the tooth space would be too wide for the tube and tend to rip also I wanted to take it steady so I got a nice clean straight cut. As the saw was cutting at an angle I didn't take it past the line I left a bit of metal holding the tube together whilst I did the next cut.

This is the next cut, the tool makers clamp is to to stop the cut ends from vibrating and making a farting noise.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3720.jpg)

The with a junior blade held in a bit of brass chim complete the cuts square.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3721.jpg)

This is the cut tube.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3730.jpg)

The cut will be bent out to form the wings of the firebox, I tried to bend them out as cut but the copper is quite hard so I'll anneal it as I didn't want to force it. As the annealed tube will need pickling I,m at a bit of a stop until I get my pickle bathe made.

I've collected one a two things together for the boiler build.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3733.jpg)

The black box is a case from an industrial battery fork lift truck or something like that, and will be part of the pickle bath, the bits of ally behind it will form part of my brazing hearth. At the Harrogate show I picked up some of these blankets, for the hearth.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3736.jpg)

I also have a collection of fire bricks.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3737.jpg)

Getting there slowly

Stew


Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on May 12, 2010, 08:04:40 AM
Stew,

I thought Kaolin wool was a natural product, when you showed it to me at Harrogate......   :thumbup:

"Will withstand 1000 deg C"  :bugeye:


So, what kind of an animal is a kaolin?  :scratch:

 Do they live near volcanos?  :lol:

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 12, 2010, 09:14:59 AM
Its a sort of goat and yes they live on the slopes of volcanoes in Iceland, thats why their legs are shorter on one side than the other so that they don't lean, the males have short legs on the right and go clockwise around the volcano, the females have short legs on the left and go anti-clockwise that way they can meet up in the breading season which is from April to May, with a hunting season in the autumn  October to November, hunters put down bait of good quality coal which apparently they can't resist. 

 :D :D :D :D :D

Nice one Dave
 
::)

Stew


Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on May 12, 2010, 09:27:58 AM
Hi Stew, I really like your clamp you made with coach bolts and some wood to hold that boiler tube, it's something I'm going to be making soon, to hold some things I hadn't a good idea on how without marring them.  Watching the sawing with that clamp in place looks like the tube is solidly held and with care, won't move and get grrrrd up.  I noticed in your pictures of using the step drill for some of the holes, the "forward cutting angle" on that type of drill is essentially zero, which was what I was trying to describe in stoning off the leading edge of a regular drill bit, for copper and all its alloys.  I really like that bit about drilling undersize, and turning a lip on the tube to hold it in place, that idea beats all the others I've ever tried, glad to hear a testimonial during a build!!  Don't let paying work interfere too long, this build is far too interesting, so stay in the shop late, work hard, and get back to the project, you got that?  This is your audience speaking :hammer: all kidding aside, great looking job, and fine craftsmanship, I'd like to see the whole of it when you've got it done.   :jaw: :bow: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on May 12, 2010, 12:23:40 PM
Its a sort of goat and yes they live on the slopes of volcanoes in Iceland, thats why their legs are shorter on one side than the other so that they don't lean, the males have short legs on the right and go clockwise around the volcano, the females have short legs on the left and go anti-clockwise that way they can meet up in the breading season which is from April to May, with a hunting season in the autumn  October to November, hunters put down bait of good quality coal which apparently they can't resist. 

 :D :D :D :D :D

Nice one Dave
 
::)

Stew


Ah! Yes........

Northern cousins to the noble, Scottish  Haggis.......  :lol:


David.
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 12, 2010, 03:10:41 PM
Thanks Jack

I'm pleased the wood clamp will help, its amazing what you can pick up on forums like this you're drill edge stoning for copper is filed away for further use, some times all it takes is a picture for bells to start ringing and ideas to start to form.  :proj:

Dave:- I thinks its called a Greater Gullable Goat  :)

OK went on the hunt to B&Q (great big hardware store) for some  Thermalite/Celcon blocks (Autoclaved Aerated Concrete (AAC)) picked up four half price 50p each as they were damaged, but for my use as a hearth that won't matter.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3743.jpg)

This afternoon I've made a lid for the tank

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3741.jpg)

Still got to put a lock on it just to keep the contents safe away from animals and children

I spotted a oblong bucket at B&Q for keeping paint in for roller application  looked just the right size to fit in the tank and take the boiler.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3742.jpg)

The acid will be in the bucket and the tank will act as a second skin containing  accidental leaks and splashes.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on May 12, 2010, 03:32:17 PM
all great ideas there stew. :thumbup: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on May 13, 2010, 12:59:42 AM
You're really getting on, Stew.  I always like your projects.
What will you use for the pickle?  I mean, what kind of acid?

Dean
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 13, 2010, 01:19:28 AM
Thanks Dean

I'm going to use dry acid salts for the pickle from her http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-local/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2echronos%2eltd%2euk%2f&WD=acid&PN=Dry_Acid_Pickling_Salts%2ehtml%23aACD100#aACD100

I bought some about 12 months ago but I've since found out that you can use citric acid which is a lot safer and more environmentally friendly in fact I'm mulling over using the citric.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 15, 2010, 02:04:00 AM
Thanks guys

Well yesterday was a case of best laid skeams and all that. I'd more or less got the afternoon free to get on with the boiler, but my daughter turned up with 2 month old grandson, now if theirs anything better than a grandson for keeping a grandad out of his shop please tell me  ;D, so only manages to get a little done.

Cutting out the rad on the throat tube plate using jewelers saw and home made sawing table.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3744.jpg)

Throat plate having first fitting to boiler tube.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3745.jpg)

I annealed the boiler tube using a rough hearth pieced together with the thermalite blocks and the biggest  burner I've got for my torch just to try it out, the blocks worked well but the burner scared the crap out of me talk about a roaring flame, not too easy to control, I've got two torches so using the next size burner down with both torches will give me more control when it comes to soldering.

As you can see from the pic the acid bath worked will, I ended up using the acid salts only needed to make up 3 liters to cover boiler and adding about two tablespoons of salts gave me a Ph between 2 and 3 (if I'm reading the indicator paper correct)

Cheers

Stew


Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on May 15, 2010, 02:42:10 AM
yes grandkids sure do keep you out of the workshop  :D

thats coming together nicely mate  :thumbup:
looking forward to the next stage

Graham
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 16, 2010, 06:17:06 AM
Thanks Graham

Well yesterday was yet another case of "best laid skeams of mice and men all gang away". I could see the whole day in front of me in the shop, but I'd forgotten about the Boss, we'd booked seats for a Don McClane (of American Pie Fame) In Liverpool for the evening, but the Boss thought it would be a good idea to go early and have a wander around the shops visit the Tate modern art Gallery at the Albert Docks etc etc so strike one afternoon in the shop. Enjoyed the visit and concert though, and came across one interesting fact you guys across the pond will be interested in, theirs a very nice bronze statue at Albert Dock commemorating emigration donated to the city by the Mormon Church, it's plaque states that over 9 Million people emigrated from Europe to North America through the port of Liverpool:- just what % of the population are decended from those emigrants now  :scratch: the mind boggles.

Back on topic:-

The wings of the fire box rapper need to be extended to do this I will have to make a joint, this can be a simple lap joint but this will take up some water space or a joggled joint, I'm going to use a joggle joint. First thing make a joggling tool, now this isn't going to be a fancy tool just dog rough and functional.

Mill a bit of flat steel (garage door thanks Ralph) flat and put a groove up it 1/4" + plate thickness + a bit for luck.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3751.jpg)

Then with the plate well annealed and a 1/4" square bar squeeze the plate into the grooves.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3754.jpg)

This will bend it out a bit wack it back square with a bit of ally bar and a hammer.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3755.jpg)

And thats the joggled joint formed.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3757.jpg)

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on May 16, 2010, 06:21:11 AM
Stew......

"Every day, in every way..... You`re getting better & better!"   :wave:

Nice one, again.....  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on May 16, 2010, 08:18:08 AM
What Dave said
 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 16, 2010, 12:02:45 PM

Thanks Dave Graham

Now if you've got a nervous disposition look away now:- this is going to be cheap, nasty, and as rough as the proverbial Bears arse,

(If any of you guys have felt a Bears back side and lived to tell the tail I would love to know just how rough it is)   :D

But It'll do the job  :proj:

Making the brazing Hearth.

Fist off cut a boiler size hole in the base of a large ally oven tray:- the reason for the hole will become apparent in next weekish.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3759.jpg)

Then four bolts in each corner fastens it to the top of a work mate, and a bit of scrap ally sheet pop riveted to two sides makes the wind shield.


(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3761.jpg)

Now it was a great bit of advice that I got to use Thermalite block cut in half with an old saw for insulation. (You must keep them dry)
They cut like butter.  :thumbup:

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3762.jpg)

And her we have it's all ready for the first soldering job and all for less than a ten squid, and build in an afternoon.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3764.jpg)

Stew








Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on May 16, 2010, 05:57:39 PM
Hey Stew it may b rough and ready mate but it will do the job nicely  :thumbup:
  :nrocks:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on May 16, 2010, 10:58:42 PM
Coming along well, Stew.  I like how you made your hearth. 

Dean
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on May 18, 2010, 12:09:42 PM
Coming along well, Stew.  I like how you made your hearth. 

Dean
Amen to that, Dean, that's another good idea to be stowed in the attic for the future, I'm learning lots about working with copper, and will have to build a boiler, in spite of having already considered using an ex-kitchen appliance to run a steam engine project coming up.  Great work at showing the means, too.  Much appreciated, kind of like school :lol: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 18, 2010, 02:49:56 PM
Thanks guys I picked up the idea for the Hearth from another forum I'm just passing along someone else's ideas.

Got some of the boiler bushes made whilst waiting for the rivets to arrive.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3765.jpg)

The bush on the left is for the safety valve, the drawing states 3/8"*26 thread, checked with Reeves what thread they sold their safety valves with 3/8*32 so thats what I made it, the middle two are for the regulator they screw into the end plates, the one with all the holes is soldered into the boiler barrel and the steam dome fastens onto it.

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on May 18, 2010, 06:03:27 PM
You make some nice, clean looking bits, Stew.  Fittings look top grade.

Dean
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 22, 2010, 08:17:04 AM
Thanks Dean

Well this has been a very frustrating week, I ordered the 1/16 copper rivets on Monday on Friday I got a call from the supplier to say they were out of stock  :-\ , so I've reordered from another supplier, in the mean time I've got on with some house jobs and earned a few brownie points, and made some more bushes, and bronze screws to hold the boiler together whilst its soldered.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3790.jpg)

I found that the boiler flue tubes varied in length by 1/8 they need to be all the same length or the sort ones will be at risk of coming adrift during soldering.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3776.jpg)

Skimmed one end square de-burred the bore and skimmed the Dia for 3mm for a lose fit in the tube plate.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3773.jpg)

Then found the shortest tube and set the hight gauge to that and marked all the other tubes off to that length.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3774.jpg)

Skimmed the length to the mark and turned OD same as the other end.

With all the tubes trimmed to length and a small step turned time to have a trial assembly to the tube plates.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3779.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3785.jpg)

The smokebox tube plate is the wrong way round, this is because I want the end of  tubes to sit flat on a plate whilst I solder the tubes to the firebox, the smokebox tube plate will be one of the last things to be soldered so I must remember to turn it round.

My plan is to solder the wrapper extensions first then the throat plate and wrapper, but I need those darn rivets if I don't get them soon it will be plan B turn some 1/8 rivets down.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Bernd on May 22, 2010, 08:48:21 AM
Looks real clean there Stew. :thumbup:

Shouldn't be any problem silver soldering them in place.


Bernd
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 22, 2010, 09:46:45 AM
Thanks Bernd

Went to the club track to see if I could touch base with the boiler inspector, and find out if he will be around next week, he wasn't there but I was telling one of the members about the my lack of rivets, he said I've got some you can have just follow me home, People can be real nice:-
So looks like I'll be soldering next week.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Bluechip on May 22, 2010, 09:49:54 AM
Stew

What size Cu Rivets????

I got some RH 1/16" x 1/4" ... ???

Yours if yer want 'em ..

Due to be dumped shortly

Dave BC
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Rob.Wilson on May 22, 2010, 12:29:56 PM
Hi Stew

Your making a great job of building the boiler ,,,,very clean work  :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:


Cheers Rob
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 23, 2010, 07:54:40 AM
Dave thanks for the offer of the rivets.

Cheers

Rob

Well got the first joint soldered the fire box outer rapper extension:- the part to be joined were given a soak in the pickle for 1/2 hr then throughly cleaned with some wire wool, flux applied and the extensions were loosely riveted in place.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3791.jpg)

Then onto the hearth a piece of solder was cut the length of the joint and placed on the joint I did an outside and an inside joint at the same heating, and I bunged the thermal blanket up the tube to keep the heat where I wanted it. fed a little solder into the joint and onto the head of the rivets

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3794.jpg)

I let it cool for five minutes then quenched it in water then into the pickle for half an hour, the pickle was then washed off in water, and the joint inspected, apply another dollop of solder to the joint, then with the boiler flipped over the other way and with less solder this time and the whole lot heated up again and a little more solder fed into the joint and on the other side of the rivets.

Back in to the pickle as before another clean and inspection not to happy with a couple of areas so again as before more flux and a bit more solder in the areas on concern.

Here we go outside.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3796.jpg)

And inside

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3800.jpg)

Well thats me done for the day the rest of the day will be taken up with that great British institution:- the family barbeque, that is traditionally held on the first and often only dry sunny day of the year. The pleasant sound of birds song and smell of flowers will be replaced by the sound of male of the household cussing as he struggles to get the barbeque lit and the stench of charcoal, lighter fuel, and cremated sausages.

Cheers

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on May 23, 2010, 08:44:15 AM

Well thats me done for the day the rest of the day will be taken up with that great British institution:- the family barbeque, that is traditionally held on the first and often only dry sunny day of the year. The pleasant sound of birds song and smell of flowers will be replaced by the sound of male of the household cussing as he struggles to get the barbeque lit and the stench of charcoal, lighter fuel, and cremated sausages.

Cheers

Stew

Don`t believe you Stew!  :)

I think you will apply the same logic and workmanship to the "family entertainment", as to the loco build......   :coffee: :med:

Enjoy your barbie!  :thumbup:

David D

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on May 23, 2010, 09:38:48 AM
Thing have been a little slow, bin on Gardening Duties and looking after our grand son.

Any way made some progress with a backward step thrown in, more about this later.

Made the former for the backhead plate you this former for the throat plate as well. First square it up so that you've got four good edges on each face, then blue it up and mark it out on the mill.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3608.jpg)

Then centre pop the line to give you something to work too.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3607.jpg)

Then mill out the shape I used the rotory table this time, it just fitted the clamping is not too elligant, but hay:- its effective.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3609.jpg)

Then it was just a matter of tidying up the plates on the former her they are all done with the formers.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3610.jpg)

Now to drill the tube plates now I know that "drilling soft copper can be tricky",  :bang: I've seen lots of pics where guys have mounted tubes plates onto lathe face plates so that the holes can be bored because "drilling soft copper can be tricky" :bang: but for some reason I decided to do the drilling on my pillar drill, its not a bad pillar drill but its not as good as my mill for drilling, I clamped the smoke box tube plate onto a plank of wood and drilled the first 3/8" hole all was well, now I know that "drilling soft copper can me tricky", :bang: second ran out nearly into the first hole that I drilled, I stopped and tried rectifying it by drilling from the other side but this only made things worse:- strike one tube plate

:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

OK it's a scrapper:- so decided to drill the rest of the holes any way to perfect the best method.

Over too the mill:- this is the set up, the plate was position over a slot for the drill to run into and clamping onto a chunk of wood in the middle, so the flange wouldn't be damaged.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3611.jpg)

That worked like a dream why didn't I do that to begin with  :bang:

OK have a go with the 3/4" supper heater holes now I know that "drilling soft copper can me tricky",   :bang: so similar set up, but this time I sat the plate on some parallels flat side on, as the 3/4" was to wide to fit between a slot,:-a 3/8" pilot drill then straight in with the 3/4" now I know that "drilling soft copper can me tricky",  :bang: that one wandered off centre as well I should have used another pilot drill.

OK second 3/4" hole this time 3/8" followed by 1/2" followed by 3/4" perfect

This is the scrap plate, the 3/4" hole on the left is the one that run out. you can work out for your selves which 3/8" hole went wrong.


(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3612.jpg)

Guess what I'll be buying at the Harrogate show, still I've got the formers know.

Stew

Who knows that "drilling soft copper can me tricky"  :bang:Hi Stew, since I haven't built a boiler yet, and you're doing such a nice job, I've been going back over what you posted, from the beginning, to get a better set in my mind, of what you've done, and run up against.  As I went through this part where your drill wandered far and away, I was reminded, copper can easily be welded up, using tig, and good quality solid strand electrical wire, so that hole that wandered off could have been filled in, and re-drilled, just as a note, no criticism, and it brought to mind, I once welded up a diesel fuel tank for a boat that was all copper, and did it with oxy-accetalene, which works well, but requires a good eye for color, much like aluminum does, for the same reason:  drop out.
    Nothing relavent to to the current state of the thread, just thought I'd add a couple of bits which came to me late.  Still enjoying the build log, beautiful work :headbang: mad jack





Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 24, 2010, 12:55:54 PM
The Barbie went down well Dave, I lied about the charcoal I've got one of those gas jobbies I rescued it from the next door neighbour who was scrapping it off as it was looking a bit tatty, gave it a good clean and a fresh coat of heat resistant paint, some new rocks, and the jobs a good un .   :nrocks:

Thanks for the info Jack thats well worth remembering.  :thumbup:

Well had a master class from John this afternoon on silver soldering, we soldered the throat plate up, and I learnt a lot in the process, it really is a two man job using propane on a lump of copper like this boiler.

First of all I gave the parts a good clean first in the pickle then with a wire brush, I loosely riveted the throat plate in place with four rivets one mid way on each side of the fire box and one each side of the boiler tube where the saw cut ended, closed any big gaps by tapping and pinching with pliers, and applied flux. One thing I learnt from Johns was you don't need a lot of flux I was lathering it on.

This was the first set up. Sorry didn't take a lot of pics it a process where once you start you can't keep breaking off to take a pic, so you'll have to put up with my description.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3801.jpg)

We placed a length of 3 mm silver solder down each side of the plate and along the back, then with me operating one torch for back ground heating and John adding the filler rod and controlling the heat with a smaller torch and instruction to me as to where to direct the background heat and when to take it off we set too, whith the top once done we flipped the boiler on its side and soldered up around the boiler tube, flipped it on the other side and ditto , allowed it to cool and have 1/2hr in the pickle a carefull inspection showed a couple of areas that needed a bit more work, so same procedure with but concentrating the heat on areas as required.

This is what the job looks like.

Top

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3803.jpg)

Inside

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3807.jpg)

The fillet around the curve is on the other side and as its down the bottom of the tube it doesn't take a good pic, so you'll have to believe me:- its real nice.


I'll run this past the inspector.

Stew





Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on May 24, 2010, 02:30:22 PM
looking good Stew hope your barbi went well :D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on May 24, 2010, 03:56:43 PM
Stew...... The barbie? ...... How well I know you! (http://serve.mysmiley.net/winking/winking0001.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net)


Boiler work`s looking really good!  :clap:

Good luck with the Inspector.....  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on May 25, 2010, 12:09:00 AM
Coming along just great, Stew.  The joints look good.
Do you have to show the inspector every time you make a new joint?

Dean
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 25, 2010, 01:32:25 AM
Thanks Guys

Dean:- no I don't have to show the inspector every joint, but as this is my first boiler I thought it a good idea to show him each joint especially as I will be boxing some of the joints up where they can't be seen/inspected and it becomes very difficult to rectify any faults with them. It also gives the inspector a chance to give advice, and point me in right direction to avoid mistakes that can't be easelly corrected.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on May 25, 2010, 11:39:46 AM
I've got to say Stew, that boiler is coming along right nicely, and the joints are looking really nice.  I'm looking forward to seeing the tubes and tube plates in place to have a bit better perspective, but the tubes, plates and all the bits and pieces don't look so intimidating as they go together now.  You wouldn't already have an engine waiting for that boiler by chance, would you? :lol: :lol:  Can't wait to see some steam built up and driving something.   :jaw: :bow: :thumbup: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 25, 2010, 01:37:46 PM
You wouldn't already have an engine waiting for that boiler by chance, would you? :lol: :lol:  Can't wait to see some steam built up and driving something.   :jaw: :bow: :thumbup: mad jack

Cheers Jack

The boiler is for my 2-4-0 loco that I'm building, you gave me the perfect excuse to take a pic of it between the frames.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3809.jpg)

The frames somewhat stripped down, I've removed the front wheel and the connecting rod so that I could trial fit the water and oil pumps.

You can read the build log her http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=547.0

Thanks

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on May 25, 2010, 03:55:44 PM
Well...... I`ve said it before, so, I might as well say it again......  :wave:

That`s looking good Stew!  :clap:  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Rob.Wilson on May 25, 2010, 04:18:46 PM
Stew  :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: :jaw: really looking great  :clap: :clap: :clap:,,,,,,,,,,,,, nice brazing hearth  :med:


Regards Rob
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Artie on May 25, 2010, 07:41:31 PM
I dont know what your silver soldering skils are like but if you havent dont much the ruined plate could be a bonus. I would get some scrap tube and practise on it before you attack the real thing... it can be a bit tricky at times.

Stew, I made this comment in here some pages back....... Ive just had occasion to read your loco thread.... therefore PLEASE IGNORE THIS COMMENT..... you dont need any practise :bow: :bow: :bow:

Wow... Ive just discovered the thread due to the link just posted here..... man am I impressed.... (understatement there wow)... it was amazing to follow the linkage build, the heartache and the success.... just like a damn thriller novel, I couldnt stop til I had it read.. fantatstic...Ill certainly follow both . Well done mate.  :beer:

Artie
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Divided he ad on May 25, 2010, 07:48:20 PM
Stew....  It'll do.





Ralph.









(famous phrase  :thumbup: )
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on May 26, 2010, 06:12:15 AM
Stew,

I've just flicked through all your pics but need to read this in detail. Not been on here or in workshop for a while, other things keep getting in way. Rules on boilers are getting tighter and tighter (probably rightly so) and we have a new boiler inspector at our club now so I fear I may have to make a new boiler for my loco, this article will come in extremely useful if I do have to.

Great work by the way, those joints and flanged plates are perfect.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 26, 2010, 12:26:04 PM
Hi Nick

Was wondering where you were, was going to give you another week and then email you at work, hope everything is ok:- domestic duties get in the way even when your retired.

Had one or two chats with our boiler inspector, what surprises me is how fluid things are as to design, he's always telling me alternative ways of doing things, I,e replace the gurder stay with rivet stays, having a two piece boiler tube etc etc, I thought I would have to demonstrate that the correct gauge of material had been used etc, etc, a question he's not asked yet, I may be wrong but the regulations seem to be more about testing than anything else.

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 26, 2010, 02:10:06 PM
Nick:- forgot to say, if you do need to build a boiler you can have my formers.

Got a little more done today forming the firebox rapper:-

The rapper was cut to the correct size so first job was to anneal and pickle it then mark the middle and using the end plate former get it bent roughly to shape with the help of the vice, just by hand.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3817.jpg)

It was annealed and pickled again

Then using the tube plates as formers and bits of woods as bats it was nocked to shape.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3819.jpg)

Tomorrow's job is to solder together the flue tubes the fire box tube plate and the rapper.


Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on May 27, 2010, 05:16:20 AM
All ok thanks Stew, to be honest I just don't seem to have the energy or time! It's me being lazy really, taking the easy way out for a bit!  :lol:

I think you're right about regulations there there are a lot of people with a lot of experience you can call up on and they'll offer different ways of doing things. I think the fact that he's seen your build he'll know the manner in which you approach things and that you wouldn't over look anything. He should be checking correct gauge of material you've used etc but he won't have to with yours.

The problem with mine is, it's ancient - well over 20 years old, and nobody knows what it's like inside. From the look of it, it's been done exactly to drawings but I know our new inspector would really rather see it being built up - I'll take it and see what he things anyway.

Thanks for the offer of the formers  :thumbup: I think I'd be more happy myself if it had a new boiler, but I'll see what he thinks of existing one first.

You're doing a great job on this, the thing I struggle with with sheet metal work, I always seem to relax - i don't treat it as with other machining work working to close tolerances, but to get a good job, you have to. When you're cutting a piece of plate to size, do you treat it as any other part you make?

Keep up the good work.

Nick





Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on May 27, 2010, 10:24:57 AM
Hi Stew, thanks for the picture of the engine it will be feeding, it looks great and of course now I'm looking forward to seeing it with the boiler steaming it, and wheels turning.  That boiler looks great where it's at too, almost like it belongs :jaw:  I noted the discussion of "model engineers" and their abundance, have you ever noticed most of us can't spell?  I noticed among electronic technicians in the Corps, about one in five could learn to troubleshoot, and become a real highly qualified technician, with the rest never getting past the stage of just being able to align and adjust a unit that was not too far off right.  Of those who turned out real technicians with troubleshooting skills, most had real problems spelling, and didn't care, while most of those who never could figure out how to "think out of the box" or from the outside in, had no spelling problems at all.  I think dyslexia is a sign of a mechanical engineer's way of thinking, and just means our brains are wired differently.  It certainly seems to play out here on the forum.  I'm really looking forward to the tubes and stays going into the boiler, and seeing anything regarding the actual ispection that takes place.  I have no idea how such is done or even whether it's done the same on this side or not.  Thanks again, mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 27, 2010, 11:25:25 AM

I noted the discussion of "model engineers" and their abundance, have you ever noticed most of us can't spell?  I noticed among electronic technicians in the Corps, about one in five could learn to troubleshoot, and become a real highly qualified technician, with the rest never getting past the stage of just being able to align and adjust a unit that was not too far off right.  Of those who turned out real technicians with troubleshooting skills, most had real problems spelling, and didn't care, while most of those who never could figure out how to "think out of the box" or from the outside in, had no spelling problems at all.  I think dyslexia is a sign of a mechanical engineer's way of thinking, and just means our brains are wired differently.  It certainly seems to play out here on the forum.  I'm really looking forward to the tubes and stays going into the boiler, and seeing anything regarding the actual ispection that takes place.  I have no idea how such is done or even whether it's done the same on this side or not.  Thanks again, mad jack

How very true well observed, I gave up many years ago trying to spell and just got on with life, it use to piss me off at work though, their was always some smarty pants who could spell, but could do little else, and they loved to pull people up about their spelling, I learnt to bide my time and then really rub their nose in it when they came up against something they couldn't do, and remind them it hurts to be constantly reminded of your weaknesses. When the chips were down and a job needed to be pulled out of the mire it was the natural engineers who were always called on, it was only late in live that I learnt to exploit this and bang the table for recognition, my company loved smooth talking, suited engineers that could only look nice, the real guys who who were rough at the edges but did the work, were kept hided away where they couldn't contaminate the companies image.

Any way thats enough of putting the world to rights:- back to the job in hand.

Another master class from John on silver soldering.

This is the set up for soldering the flue tubes to the firebox tube plate, stepping the tubes worked great in prevent the tube plate slipping down, I cut a bricks to length to give a bit of support.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3821.jpg)

Some rings of solder were made by simply wrapping the rod around one of the tubes and snipped them off, the tube ends and tube plate were fluxed, and the solder rings placed over each of the tubes.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3822.jpg)

One things John has taught me is that you don't directly heat up the solder you start by adding background heat to the job slowly bringing the flame up to where the joint is to be formed this way you gat a uniform heat in the joint. We worked with two burners one each side of the job as the solder started to melt we moved the torch slowly around so that each ring of solder was melted in turn.

With the tubes fixed and after a spell in the pickle the rapper was soldered to the tube, this time the job was flipped over so that the tubes were on top, again lengths of solder were placed along the joint, and additional solder fed into the joint as it melted.

Here's the job before pickle.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3823.jpg)

And after

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3827.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3828.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3831.jpg)

 
Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Rob.Wilson on May 27, 2010, 11:40:22 AM
Looking great Stew  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

  :offtopic: but i have just switched to Google chrome ,,,,, cos its got a built in  spell checker ,,,,my lack of literacy really bugs me  when i am trying to type up a post   :bang:


Anyway carry on Stew ,,,,,,,,,, its going to be a fine engine, looking forward to seeing it steamed up and  on the rails  :thumbup:


Cheers Rob
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on May 27, 2010, 12:35:05 PM
That`s sweet work you`ve done there Stew!  :clap:      Again......  :D




Incidentally...... I could always spell very well...... I was always the back up, to my oppo.....

He worked out the way to go. I went/ followed on......

As a pair, we were devastating when any new product came along, and production needed sorting.  :thumbup:

He can`t spell to save his life......  ::)




Eeee..... I do miss him!  :lol: :lol:

David D

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Bernd on May 27, 2010, 01:38:12 PM
Hey Stew, nice soldering job. Looks real good.  :thumbup:

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on May 27, 2010, 04:07:00 PM
Stew that was a lovely neat bit of brazing there mate. I learnt to silver braze in my plumbing aprenticeship and I dont think I could do much better mate :thumbup:
I cant spell either thats why i use Firefox browser with its in built spell checker.
keep up the great work mate

cheers Graham
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on May 28, 2010, 03:01:29 AM
That's a lot of nice soldering, Stew.  It's coming along to be a beauty.
When you say "stepping the tubes", do you mean putting a bulge in the end so they don't fall through the plate
as you're soldering them?

Thanks,

Dean
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Divided he ad on May 28, 2010, 03:33:30 AM
Looking good Stew  :thumbup:


I like the picture of the rings of solder ready for the heat, it is by far the neatest and easiest way I've seen of doing this sort of soldering.

I had a go at silver soldering a couple of weeks ago. Just test stuff. Using this method and seeing about quantity/heat required to fill a whole joint. It's not as easy as many make it look!


(Dean, page 5 shows a slight skim 3mm long to create a shoulder on the tubes so they do not pass through the plate  :thumbup: )





Glad you've got all the pic's in here Stew, feels like I'm part of the build   :D






Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 28, 2010, 03:57:51 AM
Thanks Dean/Ralph



(Dean, page 5 shows a slight skim 3mm long to create a shoulder on the tubes so they do not pass through the plate  :thumbup: )


Glad you've got all the pic's in here Stew, feels like I'm part of the build   :D


Ralph.

Glad your paying attention Ralph in preparation for the end of thread exam  :D

but in this case you only get 5 out of 10 on page three (no breasts) I also drilled the tube plate slightly smaller than the tubes.

See you at Johns on Sunday.

Cheers

Stew



Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on May 28, 2010, 04:54:35 AM
Stew,

You're making this look far too easy! I know that it's not because we had to do repairs on my boiler, my dad used to be a technology teacher in a secondary school so we had access to a proper brazing hearth, large propane burner, oxy actaline, buried in the fire bricks and still the amount of heat required amazed me.


It may be because we have the finished boiler and trying to re-solder joints that made it slightly more difficult but hats off to you.

Soldering the stays on the inside of the firebox is really tricky.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Divided he ad on May 28, 2010, 11:56:11 AM

Quote
but in this case you only get 5 out of 10 on page three (no breasts) I also drilled the tube plate slightly smaller than the tubes.


Stew,  I was thinking that it was obvious that the holes were small enough.... Any extra marks for thinking buy not stating the obvious?   :lol:


Yep. I'll be at Johns Sunday, be there around 2    :)  always good to catch up  :thumbup:







Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on May 28, 2010, 07:35:12 PM
Thanks Ralph and Stew.
I was watching and reading every page, honest!  I just don't remember everything, and never was that good
at tests.  At least I can reed and rite, (and spel)!  Should get good marks for that, right?  :scratch:

I really like this build, having never made this type of boiler.  Have only made two of them at all, and they
were the type that have siphon tubes on the bottom, outside of the main boiler tube.  Like for a stationary boiler.
So, I'm learning stuff here, and thanks for that!

Dean
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 29, 2010, 01:20:01 AM

I really like this build, having never made this type of boiler.  Have only made two of them at all, and they
were the type that have siphon tubes on the bottom, outside of the main boiler tube.  Like for a stationary boiler.
So, I'm learning stuff here, and thanks for that!

Dean


Thanks Dean

This is certainly a huge learning experience for me as well, a bit of a trip into the unknown.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 30, 2010, 08:08:04 AM
Well the soldering is on the back burner (pun)  :D until I gat the work done so far, checked out by the boiler inspector. So did a bit of shop maintainance.
Nocked this tooling rack up,

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3841.jpg)

This frees up some space which in my small shop is at a premium.

Then did one or two machining jobs for the boiler first up the "Fire Hole" no not the sort you get after a night down the pub and a curry, the sort they shuvel the coal through.

Its made from a bit of thick wall copper tube:- a short step turned on each end so that you've got a 1/4" collar, a quick anneal and a soak in the pickle.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3836.jpg)

Then a squeeze in the vice to make it oval and here it is on the backhead.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3839.jpg)

Next up the bush for the water gauge, for some reason there is no dimensioned drawing for it, just a note saying 1/4* 32 thread. So this is my interpretation of what's required.

Using a chunk of Phos Bronze mark it out and rough it out.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3850.jpg)

This is one of those awkward jobs where if you don't machine it out in the correct order you'll end up not being able to grip it to finish the job.

Then as its got to fit on the 3 1/2 " dia boiler tube, set up the boring head to cut that dia. The body of the head is 50 mm so (88.9 - 50) / 2 = 19.5 thats what the tool has to stand out above the body to cut a 3 1/2 " dia.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3842.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3843.jpg)

With that set, pop the job in the vice, centre drill for the 1/4*32 zero up the DRO swap to the boring head and cut the rad.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3852.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3856.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3858.jpg)


Then back to the zero position and drill for the thread.

Flip it round and drill the joining hole.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3861.jpg)

A clean up with a file and this is it on the boiler tube.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3871.jpg)

Stew



Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Bluechip on May 30, 2010, 09:19:30 AM
Stew

I made a rack from chipboard to hold 2MT Drill Chucks, Rotating Centres, etc.

It was sealed and painted.

And rusted the 2MT shanks in a most evil fashion.    :(

Dave BC

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on May 30, 2010, 10:33:23 AM
Stew,

I store all that collet stuff in small polythene bags, with a fuff of WD40, in their own dedicated plastic box.

I tend to think people who store shineys that way, have a much drier workshop atmosphere than mine......  ::)

David D

P.S.

Nice work!  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on May 30, 2010, 11:26:45 AM
Hi Stew, nice work on the "fire hole", the oval looks just right for the job.  I like the way you set up the boring head for doing that radius to match the boiler, I've done the "cut and try method" a few times, and that way looks to save a bit of time.  It looks good sitting on top of the boiler tube with it's threads all exposed and all. :thumbup: I just thought I'd mention the issue of rust and MDF, when they finish with making the MDF, there's lots of formaldahyde left in the boards, and it strips all oils and such off as it evaporates out of the boards.  It will come out, pretty much without regard to what you cover it with, but once it is gone, usually a year or so, the problem is over.  You might think about slipping the shanks in a baggie or something before dropping them in the board.  Trying not to make to many posts about this simple little thing.   :jaw: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 30, 2010, 12:36:43 PM
Thanks for the warning with the chip board, I'll have to take some precautions.

Showed the boiler to the inspector today big thumbs up . :thumbup:

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Divided he ad on May 30, 2010, 08:02:47 PM
Showed the boiler to me as well :thumbup:


I have to say I had a good lesson from Stew and Bogs on how it all works too.....Never really been party to the full workings of "the boiler"... Know a lot more now though  :smart:

Looked very good from where I was sitting Stew  :clap:


I liked the gauge mounting too  :thumbup:





Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on May 31, 2010, 11:15:40 AM
Thanks Ralph it was good meeting up and chewing the fat.

Got a little bit more done today, cut the fire hole in the firebox back plate for the, just making it a nice fit just a little bit of movement from the fire hole ring.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3872.jpg)

Then soldered the ring in place, and while I was at it I solder some of the bushes in the backhead.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3873.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3874.jpg)

Thats a little more done.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on May 31, 2010, 03:46:52 PM
 :bow: :bow: :bow: lovin your work Stew :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on June 01, 2010, 08:36:28 AM
Doing great work, Stew, I guess you're here to set the standard for us regular folks.  I've got to say, the soldering job on that fire hole and the bushes is a work of art, great to hear the boiler inspector likes your work too.  You should be done with this boiler pretty ricky tik, and ready to show us some steam and pressure :headbang:  this thread is the motivation I needed to get past my hesitation to build one for my next steam engine, the one I've had in a box unmade for a few years.  Did I mention gorgeous work already?  :lol: nothing but beautiful :ddb: :nrocks: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on June 01, 2010, 01:57:35 PM
Stew, forgot to ask, is all the solder you're using easy flow 2? Are you following Curly's build instructions? Just wondered because I know on mine some of it is sif bronzed and some different grades of silver solder so that you don't melt what you've already done.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on June 03, 2010, 02:44:11 PM
Nick

For the firebox extensions I used easyflo No 1 which is a slightly higher melting point I reasoned that this joint will be subjected to quite a number of reheating, for the same reason on fire box hole and the backhead bushes I've used some high melting point silver solder that John gave me, but before I used it I had a trial run on the scrap firebox tube plate just to see if I could get it up to temperature.

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on June 07, 2010, 06:35:20 PM
Stew,

Thanks for the info, though you must be using different types. Keep up the good work.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on June 08, 2010, 01:54:03 PM

Things bin a bit slow as we had a short holiday in London.

The guys at the club and the boiler inspector advised me to use rivet stays as they are far easyer to put in and just as effective, as the girder stays specified in the drawing. I couldn't get any rivets long enough so decided to make some out of 3/16 copper rod, I made a little upsetting jig this is simply a 3/16 hole in a chunk of steel, split through so that the rivet can be removed. To make the rivets I cut some 40mm length of copper bar, annealed them then put one in the jig with a short length protruding grip it tight in the vice and give it a good wallop with a hammer to upset the head. You can get the idea from the pic.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3875.jpg)

Another bit of advice was not to try drilling rivet hole through both plates at the same time as the drill just wonders and the stays end up crooked, best to carfully mark the two parts out and drill them separately, this is the boiler tube marked out.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3886.jpg)

And the set up to hold the boiler on the mill table for drilling.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3884.jpg)

Drilling the stay holes, and safety valve hole

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3889.jpg)

Drilling the hole for the steam dome.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3888.jpg)

for some reason the steam dome hole was going off line so finished the job off with a file.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3892.jpg)

Steam dome bush fitted.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3895.jpg)

Steam dome bush soldered to the boiler.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3904.jpg)

Drilling the stay holes in the firebox.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3891.jpg)

And a trial fitting of the parts the stays are not fully assembled in place.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3897.jpg)

John was coming over this afternoon to help solder the stays but it was raining so we,ve put it off until Thursday.

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on June 08, 2010, 03:49:19 PM
Really nice work, nicely shown, Stew!   :clap:   :clap:   :clap:

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on June 08, 2010, 05:09:48 PM
Looking good, Stew.  Thanks for showing how you did the stays.
Maybe you've already said, but, what will fire the boiler?

Thanks for the show!

Dean
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on June 09, 2010, 02:53:42 AM
Thanks Dave/Dean

Dean the boiler will be fired with Coal, you can still get Welsh Steam Coal in the UK theirs a small mine still in operation, producing good anthracite coal, its a very hot burning coal that fired the industrial revolution in the UK. I've watched the chaps a number of times at the club fire up their engines it always amazes me just how quickly they come up to steam in about 5 minutes.

Cheers

Stew



Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on June 09, 2010, 03:46:47 AM
 :bow: :bow: absolutely marvellous Stew
Im watching this thread closely  :D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on June 09, 2010, 05:57:56 AM
Excellent Stew,

This is a brilliant guide for anybody making a boiler and interesting for anyone that isn't!

In my experience it takes about 15-20 mins for a small boiler like this to steam up but maybe that's with normal anthracite beans.

You're right some people do swear by that welsh steam coal.

Funny you mentioned it, one of the Thomas the Tank Engine stories I read to my son refers to it. They need to use it for an engine that has a relatively small firebox and can't cope on normal coal! There's a useless fact for you sorry, bit  :offtopic:

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on June 09, 2010, 06:28:40 AM
Thanks Guys

My Grandfather was a engine driver in the steam days and I can remember him saying how the best coal was welsh steam coal, and how the firemen use to cuss if they had anything else, as it made for hard work keeping the pressure up in the loco.

There's  a huge loco at the York railway museum that was made by the North British Loco works in Glasgow for China, it was designed to run on poor quality coal, it had a massive coal bunker and foot plate so that they could have two or three firemen shuvelling the stuff on.

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on June 09, 2010, 09:13:55 PM
...the boiler will be fired with Coal..
Stew

Neat, Stew.  Steam and smoke!  Love that stuff.
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on June 10, 2010, 09:47:39 AM
Hi guys, hi Stew, based on my long research and experience, the best anthracite coal can be close to 95 or 96% carbon, with almost no hydro-carbons to "gas off", and is, as it comes out of the mine, equivalent to the best coke, but denser.  Bitumus coal can easily be less than forty percent carbon, with the remainder being hydrocarbons which must be "cooked off" if the full caloric value of the carbon is to be available.  "Good" bitumus coal would be 75% or better carbon, and similar to good hardwood with regard to "coking off" as a parallel to doing the same with the hardwood to produce top quality charcoal.  The poorer quality bitumus coal is equivalent to pine or other soft wood, it can be cooked off to produce charcoal, but it produces far more gasses, and far less density, and the coal is very similar in the coke it produces, porous and needing compressing to compete with good coke or top quality coal.  I expect the "Welsh coal" is similar to some of the best we get out of the mountains of West Virginia, it comes from deep, from veins that once were very deep in the mantle.  Hard as rock breaks up like crystal, burns with almost no smoke, very hot, very heavy, almost solid carbon.  For what it's worth, I just wish I had a ton or so sitting behind my shop right about now.   :nrocks: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on June 10, 2010, 11:12:48 AM
Cheers Dean/Jack

Jack sound like you've got some good coal in your parts.

Any way the rain kept off today so manages to get the crown stays done.

The parts were given a good clean and the rivets assembled as the rivet passed through the water space I threaded a ring of easy flow solder onto it, the parts were then fluxed and another ring of solder added to the outside of the boiler tube that way the solder between the plate fed the joint with the fire box and the outside solder fed the boiler tube: so that we did the outside and the inside at the same heating.

The boiler was placed on the hearth firebox down, and with a  large torch in the firebox and one smaller torch on the end of the rivet, on a roving mission, the solder soon melted all looked good, so after 1/2 hr in the pickle this is what we got.

Inside

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_3916.jpg)

Outside

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_3922.jpg)

In between

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_3926.jpg)

All the joints had a nice fillet of solder  :D

Before I do some more I need to get a few more rods of solder.

The next job will be the throat plate stays and the side stays:- 54 in total.

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on June 14, 2010, 11:49:33 AM
Picked up some more silver solder yesteday I recon I will have put about 30 worth into the boiler by the time its complete. Got on with drilling the rest of the stays after carfully marking out started by drilling the holes in the throat plate, its a a real awkward position up underneath the boiler tube, so that I can reach made up a extended centre drill with a 1/8" drill at the other end:- this is the beast.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3934.jpg)

Drill a hole in the end and stuck them in place with Loctite.

They ran out quite a bit so had to get them running as best I could with a perswader  :hammer: also centre popping the hole helped because of the length it was quite flexable so it found position for itselfe.

This is the set up first all the holes were centre drilled.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3930.jpg)

And drilled 1/8 right through throat plate and fire box.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3933.jpg)

And her it is with the stays assembled.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3938.jpg)

Called it a day at that and went in to watch the footie.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on June 14, 2010, 01:02:13 PM
That`s a bit clever Stew! Well done......  :clap: :clap:

While I was employed, I often had to use that method, to drill air holes around long spigot diameters....... Had some 8" L x 5/16" Dia. centre drills made up.

I`m sure I was followed home, one dark night.  ::)

Wonder where it is now.....  :scratch:

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on June 14, 2010, 03:01:10 PM
nice work stew :clap: :clap:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on June 15, 2010, 01:48:57 PM

Got some more prep work done today for the next soldering campaign.

Drilled the holes for the side stays, 28 each side right through outer wrapper and fire box wrapper.
This is the set up the well annealed soft copper needed some support from Jacks, centre drill first then 1/8" drill, every fourth hole I pooped a rivet into to keep everything lined up

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3943.jpg)

Gave the stays a trial fit, it looks like a hedgehog.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3946.jpg)

When it comes to soldering I'm going to thread a ring of solder over each stay as it passes through the water cavity, and one ring around the head of the rivet in the fire box that way each stay will get two rings of solder one to fill the fire box wrapper and the other to fill outer wrapper.

Made the rings by winding the solder around a length of 1/8 bar then snipping them off to make the ring.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3947.jpg)

And her they all are all 130 they used up 4 lengths of solder at 2 squid a length.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3951.jpg)

Cheers

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on June 16, 2010, 12:53:41 AM

Looks like you have the makins of chain mail, Stew.  That's a lot of snipping and cutting.
Those rivets are just sticking out everywhere.  Good job.  BTW, how long is a stick of your silver?

Quote
every fourth hole I pooped a rivet...

Ooh boy.  You must have sore tushie by now!   :)

Thanks for the new update!  Great thread!

Dean 
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on June 16, 2010, 03:42:28 AM
Stew, great work there - I wish this (boiler) was one of those projects where you made 2 of everything  :lol:

 :offtopic: I was at our club last night with my oldest son as they had a running night / bbq and a guy offered me a drive of his 3 1/2" gauge william engine. I was surprised how much power it had, he'd already been around the track a good few times, I got on and managed to lose most of the pressure (out of practice!) but it was still pulling me up the hill on 25 psi!

That has the same cylinder bore as mabel but a smaller and 2 more driving wheels and a slightly bigger boiler. Still, I think Mabel should have a decent amount of power and once up to speed the bigger driving wheels might make it a bit more efficient, it'll need to be because of its smaller boiler though. Should be good.

Your post is inspiring me to get mine done, watching  / driving them helps too.

Keep up the good work.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on June 18, 2010, 02:02:53 PM
Thanks Dean:- Solder sticks are 20" long

Tushie has cooled down now

Cheers Nick, I must say I've enjoyed my visits to the club track to see the boiler inspector there is always some one there running a loco last weekend was an open weekend for other clubs to visit and run their locos, there were some amazing machines buzzing round, the 2 1/2" gauge locos are just incredible tiny little things pulling a couple of grown men around, and all with drivers with huge grins on their faces.

This soldering is getting to be routine with Johns help and guidance soldered the rest of the stays as for the crown stays we put a ring of solder in the water cavity and a ring on the head of the rivets positioned the boiler with the end of the rivets sticking down applied heat to the ends with the big torch and used the little torch for background heat and to locally boost heat where required, all went well, just a couple of stays needed a second heating and a bit more solder applying on the outside the inside (fire box) all soldered well.

Here a few pics

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3952.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3954.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3957.jpg)

Taking it along to the inspector this Sunday whilst there I'll buy yet more solder.

Stew



Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on June 18, 2010, 03:22:48 PM
thats coming along nicely Stew :thumbup:
wont be long and you will be one of the men with big grins :D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on June 18, 2010, 04:21:33 PM
Graham,

If I`d produced something like that....... I`d have a blummin big grin, already!  :)

Nicely done Stew! Good luck with the Inspector.....  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Bluechip on June 18, 2010, 04:34:45 PM
Stew

Ooh Aarr, Proper Job be thaat .. me luvverrr

Sorry Stew, old mate from Cornwall just been on phone ..

Coming on well.

Just been through the thread, just what Loco is it. ?? Sure you've told me, but I've fergotted ..

Dave BC
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Rob.Wilson on June 18, 2010, 04:57:07 PM
Hi Stew
 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: lookin great, very tidy soldering   :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow:

Regards Rob
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Divided he ad on June 18, 2010, 07:28:01 PM
That's a mighty fine copper hedgehog there Stew  :thumbup:






Looks absolutely solid! Should be a sure thing for the inspection..... Bet you can't wait to get into the pressure testing stages?



 :offtopic:   I got a whole hour in my 'shop today.... Repaired my dads remote car key, my nephews scooter and did a little on my rocking engine (very little)....  Oh to be retired and able  ::) 






Glad to see your having fun  :)




Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Brass_Machine on June 18, 2010, 08:43:04 PM
Wow Stew that is coming together very very well!  Good job sir!  :bow:

Eric
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on June 18, 2010, 10:30:04 PM
You've sure done a good deal of hard soldering Stew.  Bet you've about doubled the value of the boiler by now!
What good experience you're getting.  It's a good one for all of us watching and reading, too.

Great stuff, as always!

Dean
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on June 26, 2010, 04:14:52 AM
Bin away for a few days with my 85 year old Dad just to give him a bit of a holiday did him a world of good.  :headbang:

Soldered the fire box back plate in place, couldn't get hold of John at short notice so press ganged my wife onto the job, she was a bit wary of the roaring gas torch at first, but she soon got the idea and carried out instruction faultlessly with no arguments, which for a strong minded woman must have bin very difficult.

This is the result

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3970.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3973.jpg)

Started to mark the back head out for the fire hole and ran into a problem, The drawing for the fire box back plate is wrong it doesn't match up with the position shown an the back head, it positions it too high, I'm stuck with what is a wrong part assembled to the boiler, at the moment the fire door will foul the water gauge,  :(

It looks like I'll have to juggle thing around to get things to fit, still thinking the problem through.

Stew



Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Rob.Wilson on June 26, 2010, 04:19:20 PM
OUCH Stew  :(  ,, hope you fined a way around the problem .


Rob
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: DMIOM on June 26, 2010, 04:51:59 PM
..........It looks like I'll have to juggle thing around to get things to fit, still thinking the problem through.....

Stew,

you're obviously a tactful man and/or one who thinks beyond the short term - a lesser man might have blamed it on his new assistant!  :coffee:

anyway, have every confidence you'll sort it - either re-design it better, or given you're up-to-speed, just knock another one up in a few hours!

Dave
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on June 27, 2010, 09:52:30 AM
Nocked up a fire door this morning so I could 3D the problem  :scratch:

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3976.jpg)

Spent a bit of time down the club talking the option over with the guys, the best option would be to have the hinges at the bottom of the door, apparently on small gauge engines this arrangement is easy for driving, also did a bit of on line searching and found an engine the same as mine with the door hinged from the bottom it looks like the builder came across the same problem as me. Just to make sure I'm going to make the bottom end of the water gauge and the feed clacks so that I can check they won't foul the door, if they do only option will be to make a new back head and position the clacks under the door.

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on June 27, 2010, 10:18:34 AM
Don`t fully understand yer problem Stew......  :scratch:

BUT, I`m quite confident you`ll sort it!  (http://serve.mysmiley.net/winking/winking0001.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net)

Bottom hinged? Hmmmm..... That`s lateral thinking!  :clap:

As Dave Lee Travis used to say. "Think literally. Think laterally"..... It works!  :thumbup:

David D

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on June 27, 2010, 09:41:25 PM
Sorry to hear about this problem, Stew.  At least it's not a fault with your own work!
Hinging the door toward the bottom looks like it makes perfect sense.  I hope it works
for you without other obstacles. 
Thanks for the updates.  This is a great build thread!

Dean
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on June 30, 2010, 08:41:24 AM
Thanks Guys

Made enough of the fitting so i could try the fit out, for those interested this is how to fabricate small boiler fitting up, this is for the clacks.

First turn up the parts drill a cross hole in the body 3mm, on the union leave a small boss  3.05 mm dia and drill a pilot hole in the other end part way through, press the boss into the body and solder the bits together.

These are the bits

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3979.jpg)

Bits prepped for soldering parts fluxed and a small nugget of solder put on the joint.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3982.jpg)

When you solder the bits together don't direct the flame on the job you'll just blow the nugget off sneak up on it with the heat when the flux will go white then black then it melts when it melts it will hold the nugget in place give it more direct heat untill you see the nugget melt and flow into the joint, pickle, then drill through the pilot hole into the body, thats it job done

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3988.jpg)

Now this shows the problem with the fitting in the boiler the door fowls them.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3994.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3995.jpg)

I arnt half glad I made the the fitting as anothe problem materialised, you can't fully screw the bits into the back head they clash with each other.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_3998.jpg)

I'm going to make a new back head but I'll leave that till next week as I'm starting to get pissed off with it and when that happens I make mistakes.

I may have said before that this was the last engine Curly designed before he passed away the drawing and ME article was finished off by Martin Evans and apparently the two didn't get on, the boiler fitttings are Martins designs they are obviously not what Curly intendes I wonder how many other builders have fallen at the hurdle.

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on June 30, 2010, 10:26:03 AM
Good idea Stew, it is annoying that though. I am sure your layout of backhead will be far neater anyway, it's all a bit tight.

Will have a look at mine again tonight I think. I think, my water gauge doesn't have a blowdown, which is a requirement now anyway and would fail a steam test I think.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on June 30, 2010, 03:38:37 PM
Stew are the clacks for the water topup as I would have thought that they would have been fitted to the side of the boiler. as it is shown there it would make a very busy footplate area :scratch:
nice work tho mate :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on June 30, 2010, 05:13:49 PM
Thanks for the PM Nick with the pic showing your back head.

Graham

Yes the clacks are for water top up, there is one in a forward position into the boiler from the axle pump, of the two on the back head, one is for the tender hand pump the other is for an injector, the UK boiler requirements is for two independent water feed systems so I guess I could do without one of them, the jury is out on which is the best system some people say that the axle pump takes too much energy out of the system so get rid of that, others say that injectors are too temprimental so get rid of that, but all agree the hand pump is a must.

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on July 01, 2010, 12:57:26 AM
Thanks for that Stew Its prety much the same here. I personaly would have put a clack on each side of the boiler at the front just before the smoke box. and as is done on my loco use NRV and have dual inputs to each clack.and left the firebox area a bit clearer. but as you say you were following the plans and we learn from hindsight.
great work anyway mate :thumbup:
cheers Graham
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on July 01, 2010, 06:24:39 AM
Stew, no problem.

I my boiler doesn't have the clack on the side the feed pump pumps to the back right hand clack. The bore of the pump is so small on this engine I don't think it'll take that much energy out of the system. For every reliable injector i've seen i've probably seen 2 unreliable ones but they are nice when they work! The hand pump is a good fail safe, I was going to say I think our club insist on them, but that can't be right because you don't see them on the larger scale models like traction engines.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on July 06, 2010, 12:38:12 PM
Over the last couple of days I've made the Turret or Manifold to none steam people.

But first to finish off the clacks, the balls need setting down to do this take a new 3/16 stainless ball bearing put it on the seating, and with a brass drift give it a sharp biff with a light hammer, throw the ball away as you've distorted it, replace it with a new one. Now make the cap first measure the depth to the ball and calculate the length of thread required to allow the ball to lift 1/32 ".

Here we are one done No two measured for the cap.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4056.jpg)

Now for the turret this is made from phos bronze I've bin using calphos which is a leaded bronze that machine very nicely. The body of the turret is made from a length of 3/8" dia material:- drill 1/8 27mm deep and drill and tap 3/16 * 40 ME 5mm deep the body uses a 1/8 steal ball valve for the whistle so the bottom of the 1/8 hole needs to be square and accurately depthed, so I made a flat bottom drill and set it to depth to the chuck face against a steel washer, and just kissed the bottom to bring it to the correct depth.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4021.jpg)

3/32 hole drilled right through the bottom for the plunger.

Keeping the job on the bar transfer to the mill in spin indexer, and drill the cross holes 3.5mm to locate the fitting for soldering.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4025.jpg)

Back onto the lathe part off to length flip it round and drill and tap the back end 3/16 * 40 ME

The fitting as there were 4 to make 1/4 * 40 turn up a length of bar enough to make all four and thread it with a die.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4032.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4033.jpg)

The turn up a 2mm long boss for a tight fit on 3.5mm hole drilled in the body part off

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4034.jpg)

repeat repeat repeat.

Then flip them round in a collet:- face centre drill and drill a 3mm hole part way through.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4041.jpg)

Turn up the other 5/16 fitting

Here they are assembled to the body.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4043.jpg)

And fluxed with a little nugget of silver solder waiting for some heat.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4046.jpg)

Again sneak up on it with the heat the flux will go white then black then it will melt more direct heat until the solder melts, pickle for 1/2 hr.

Then set up in the mill and with the aid of the 3mm pilot holes drill through into the body. If you stick a bit of wire down the hole you'll feel/see the drill start to tickle it when it breaks through.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4050.jpg)

Set the ball down on the  seating as for the clacks.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4052.jpg)

Then make the whistle lever thing sorry this is the only pic I took.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4057.jpg)

And her we are turret finished.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4060.jpg)

With the bits made I can now see the best way to fit them on the back head, I think I'm going to black the bush up on the left next to the water gauge and move the boiler feed clack to the top right hand side.

Like this

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4063.jpg)

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Bernd on July 06, 2010, 12:54:35 PM
Lookin' real good there Stew. I like that Manifold. Nice job.  :thumbup:

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Rob.Wilson on July 06, 2010, 01:27:43 PM
Hi Stew
 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: great job making the manifold  :thumbup: ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, whats that i see on the end of your vernier ?  did you make it  ? 

Rob

The fire hole door looks like it should be that way  :med:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on July 06, 2010, 02:37:16 PM
Very nice work, (again), and problems very nicely sorted, Stew!  :clap: :clap: :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on July 06, 2010, 03:42:42 PM
great work Stew :thumbup: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
cheers Graham
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on July 06, 2010, 05:06:05 PM
Thanks Chaps

I think I've got it sorted in my mind know which way to go, I don't like to jump in when I've got problem like this I like to let them sit for a bit so I can think and weigh up my options.

Rob:- yes I made that foot for the vernier this is the thread. http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1800.0 I've used it a lot the other end it cut away for marking out.

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on July 07, 2010, 02:26:25 AM
Glad you were able to get back to it after sorting things out, Stew.
The tip about using a "tickle wire" is a good one.  Would be really handy
drilling in close cross holes where a guy doesn't want little divots inside the tubing/pipe.

Thanks!

Dean
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Brass_Machine on July 07, 2010, 10:17:09 AM
Nice work Stew!

Eric
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on July 08, 2010, 09:08:19 AM
Glad you were able to get back to it after sorting things out, Stew.
The tip about using a "tickle wire" is a good one.  Would be really handy
drilling in close cross holes where a guy doesn't want little divots inside the tubing/pipe.

Thanks!

Dean
Amen to that bit of info, it seems like a very useful technique to avoid pits where they can't easily be fixed, will definitely be useful lots!  Nice work on the working out of the rear of the fire box, and resolution of the interferance.  A typical case where the reduction of something in size in three dimensions has irritating aspects in the two dimensional aspect of surface area when it comes to fittings and external fitments.  Nice job on the stays and the soldering as well, top notch all the way, I expect this to be a real work of beauty when it is finally steamed up.  I enjoy the attitude of a "new challenge" rather than the loss of composure, so often seen in our working world, but not necessarily in our hobby world, where we can throw away the error, and start anew, with more experience.  It has helped me in my world of work, and transferred over to a large degree, and I am far less frustrated in life in general because of knowing it is just a part, it can always be made again.  When done by someone with the skills shown by Dean, it inspires a desire to match it for myself for my own edification, if for nothing else.   :thumbup: :thumbup: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on July 15, 2010, 12:09:47 PM
Thanks Dean/Eric/Jack

Well I slowed things down a bit after the problem I had with the position of water gauge and clack bushes being 1/4" too high, I wanted to give the problem some thought before I jumped in. Just to recap I decided to hinge the door from the bottom, blank one of the bushes off and move one of the clacks to the side of the boiler, on Monday I opened up the hole for the fire door and drilled the holes for the 6 front stays, I was now in a position to solder the back head in the boiler but first I tried the fit of the longitudinal stays, they wouldn't fit they fouled on the fire box, the penny finally dropped the error wasn't with the drawing but with me.
 
 :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

I'd only gone and positioned the fire box 1/4" too high.

Nothing for it but to make a new backhead with the holes for the longitudinal stays 1/4 higher.

Here's the old backhead with the new one cut out ready for bashing round the former.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4084.jpg)

I spent Tuesday making the new backhead, sorry no pics

Today another master class from John soldering the back head into the boiler:- her we have it

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4085.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4088.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4092.jpg)

And the top boiler bushes for the turret and water gauge.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4086.jpg)

I'll take it along to the inspector this weekend for him to have one final look before I close everything up next week with the final soldering session, fingers crossed.

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Divided he ad on July 15, 2010, 12:28:57 PM
Looking good Stew  :thumbup:



Fingers crossed.... it'll be puffing steam before you know it  :ddb: 


I was just wondering, as I know nothing of such things.... do you de-quill the porcupine before it's fitted to the loco?    :scratch:






Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on July 15, 2010, 12:45:22 PM
Hi Ralph

Yes the porcupine will be dequilled but after I've done a pressure test, it's easier to fix any leeks with the stays left long.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on July 15, 2010, 04:00:25 PM
Im glad you sorted out your problems there Stew. :clap: :clap:
its definitely a thing of beauty :thumbup:

Graham
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on July 16, 2010, 01:23:17 AM

Quote
the penny finally dropped the error wasn't with the drawing but with me.

Doggonit!  I wanted it to be the other guy's fault.   ::)

Glad you found the trouble and have it sorted out, Stew.  I'm cheering for you on you next inspector's visit!

Dean
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on July 16, 2010, 02:27:23 AM
It`s nice when the head scratching stops, and the penny finally drops........   :scratch:   :bang:

Well done Stew, for keeping it public.  :clap:

Hope all goes more smoothly from now on........  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on July 16, 2010, 05:10:08 AM
Stew, it's looking brilliant - fancy doing another 1? haha! That will pass with flying colours. Was going to say the loco's nearly ready now but you've got still got the tender to do!

Thanks for sharing this with us.

Cheers,

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on July 16, 2010, 09:42:49 AM
Nick

If you're serious about making a boiler we're always on hand to help/advice, if you can get down for a day we can certainly get you started in the right direction.

But I wouldn't buy a kit I'd buy the material and form the plates myself it not dificulty at all and I've got the formers.

At the end of the thread I'll do a summary of the good and bad points of my experiences lessons learnt and what I would do different next time.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on July 16, 2010, 12:33:51 PM
Hi Stew, I don't know about you, but it is always a relief for me when I find out I made a mistake, because then I not only get to start the piece again, but I also get to use the ideas I came up with in considering the problem, and ultimately end up with a better part than I would have, had I got it just right, but still had to deal with interferance and other issues.  From the looks of your latest pictures, you've got a top notch boiler which is going to be a sturdy and strong one and will serve the engine it feeds, well for a long time.  It's always possible to scab over a crack, and get by with a less than elegant fix, but such things always come back and haunt, so the re-make, always faster due to experience, and always more accurate, because you know all the tidbits of interference and issues of other sorts which matter, and can compensate as you go on the final round.  I'm really looking forward to the finished boiler, post inspection, ready to put steam to the engine, and prove out its own value by performance.  You've done a great job at showing all the details, and have made me forever forget the idea of faking a boiler for my steam engine, because making a real one is tedious, but not hard, just demanding care and close attention to detail.  Great looking boiler there, thanks much for the lessons in steam engineering.  :bugeye: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on August 04, 2010, 09:12:20 AM
Thanks Jack sorry if its bin a long time answering.

Got the last bit of soldering done this morning with John.

First up the foundation ring which is made from 1/4" square copper rod, just cut and file to fit, to stop the bits falling into the boiler when evering expands on heating we simply drilled 1/16 through the outside and into the ring and put some copper rivets into the holes, you don't hammer the rivets over just place them in so they act as pegs. Everything was given a short pickle and clean and a good fluxing and rods of solder placed over the joints with a double dose at the corners, and some flux on the solder, the fire box was filled with thermalite block to keep the heat on the foundation ring. I had a pic of this but deleted it by mistake  :doh: . Then with two butane torches we applied the heat it took quite a while for it to get up to temperature then as the solder melted we added more solder to fill the joints, when it looked OK let everything cool a bit then a quench in water and a pickle, this is the results.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4164.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4167.jpg)

Next we did the two bushes on the side of the boiler for the feed clacks, sorry no pics.

And the last soldering job for the boiler was the boiler tube plate, similar procedure as before this is the set up before soldering, rings of solder arround the flue tubes and arround the outside of the plate.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4160.jpg)

Two torches again with more solder added as melting temerature was reached.

We had to reheat and resolder two of the flue tubes as the solder had failed to flow into the joint.

This is the final result.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4162.jpg)

Well hopfully that all the soldering done, I've got to make some blanking plugs and fit the longitudinal stays before I do a pressure test, that will be in a couple of weeks as I'm still waiting for a calibrated pressure gauge.

Fingers crossed for the pressure test.

Stew



 
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on August 04, 2010, 10:15:08 AM
Blummin well done Stew!  :clap:

Fingers firmly crossed on your behalf......  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on August 04, 2010, 03:08:12 PM
fingers crossed here for ya Stew great work mate :clap: :clap: :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on August 05, 2010, 02:44:19 AM
Fingers crossed Stew! Well done, it looks spot on.  :bow:

When I took my boiler down to the club ages ago they wanted to see the longitudinal stays soldered in too. They usually are, I know the 1 on the left looking from the front is a hollow stay for the blower. The strange thing about it is, the blower valve goes straight into the backhead without any bush - but they weren't happy with that on mine for some reason.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on August 05, 2010, 04:37:14 AM
Thanks for your good wishes Lads, just spent a couple of hours making blanking plugs for the pressure test still got a few to go. I spotted that one of the stays in the back head, fire box side, didn't have any solder around it, so thats causing me some concern, its towards the front so it can be got at, we will see.

Nick:- I've followed the drawing with the longitudinal stays where they are screwed onto the end plates, talked to the boiler inspector about it and he was open on screwed or soldered, sometimes I think these thing are left open to interpretation, I know there is an issue with boiler valves being able to be screwed all the way out, where there's a bit of an ongoing debate in Model Engineer. I sure you've come across this at work it all boils down to professional judgement in the end, but it can get very frustrating.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on August 05, 2010, 08:23:50 PM
It looks very well done, Stew.  I hope the inspector feels the same way I do!   :thumbup:
Thanks for the new pictures and write up.

Dean
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on August 07, 2010, 04:35:33 AM
Thanks Dean

As it will be a couple of weeks before I can pressure test for real I was bitting at the bit just to do a low pressure test.

Before I go on just a warning so that no one gets the wrong message:- DO NOT CONNECT A BOILER TO A COMPRESSOR IT IS VERY DANGEROUS.

Ok what I did was make a connector for a bicycle pump, immersed the boiler in water and with a few strokes of the pump just enough to raise the pressure by a few PSI to see if there were any leeks, the only leeks I had were from the screw plugs for the regulator and the longitudinal stays which are easily fixed, there was nothing from any of the soldered joints:- so far so good.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4173.jpg)

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on August 07, 2010, 04:49:12 AM
A gentle test, and the results are just as I expected, Stew!  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Blummin well done!  :thumbup:      :D

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: spuddevans on August 07, 2010, 04:53:44 AM
Looking good there Stew  :thumbup: :thumbup:

I've been really enjoying this build, thanks for documenting it for us all to see and learn from.


Tim
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on August 07, 2010, 01:55:12 PM
well done Stew :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on August 08, 2010, 12:23:02 PM
Hi Stew, as so many others have said, well done, and beautiful.  Your posting has been clear enough I feel confident in being able to take a set of boiler plans and build a boiler properly, and have a successful one, using raw stock and my own pick without a kit, and I've never wanted to spend the money on the kit.  I am just a bit surprised in the fact you did not do a hydrostat test yourself.  given that you have all the fittings in place, I assume you have the gauges you will be using, as well as other, higher ranging gauges, and you will be using a mechanical feed pump, you ought to use it to do a true "hydro-stat test", with the boiler in a container you can readily establish a reasonably precise level static, and then pump it up to the standards that are the norm for boiler inspectors, and watching the level of your water the boiler is immersed in.  I've never done such a thing with a boiler or a steam apparatus, but I have done this to test a hydraulic accumulator and other hydraulic equipment I've had cause to repair, to ensure no incipient cracks are waiting to emerge, and my understanding from my reading, is this form of test would give you a definitive idea of how much distortion the boiler will go through, physically, when it is "up to steam" and where such distortion will show its self.  Please don't take this as disparagement, but only as a serious question, hoping for a definitive answer.  I can't reiterate how valuable I have found your post to be, and how much it has impacted my own intents for the future with regard to building boilers, you have literally taken that stainless steel "boiler" I found inside a carpet machine and relegated it to nothing but a test object, and forever closed it out as an actual operating devise because of both the quality of your workmanship, which I believe I am up to, and the quality of the post, which has eliminated all my questions and guesses which have arisen out of my studies of model boilers I've made for future intents. :coffee: :bow: :med: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on August 08, 2010, 04:33:21 PM
StewThanks

David/Tim/Graham/Jack

Jack

I will be doing a hydrostatic test myself before I submit the boiler to the inspector, the reason I havn't done the test is the gauges I have are of unknown quality (they followed me home) and I don't know if they are working correctly, so I could end up testing at far too high a pressure and cause damage to the boiler, the club inspector is going to test them against his calibrated gauge which I'm waiting for him to do this before I do the test.

If you are going to source your own material for a boiler jmake shure its of the correct thickness with the correct fastor of safety for the working pressure of the boiler and that any tube is of seamless type.

Cheers
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Bernd on August 08, 2010, 06:04:40 PM
Stew,

 Very nice build and write up.

I'd like to add something of interest here at this point since it's time to check the boiler for leaks. I don't mean to hi-jack the thread, so I'll make it short.

A net search,some past reading, and having been a memember of a live steam club, has got me to understand what goes into testing a pressure vessel. There are acutally two tests. The so called "hydrostactic" test can't be preformed at home, or maybe it can. Reason I say this is because a hdrostaic test has the pressure vessel in a tank of water. The pressure vessel is then brought up to whatever the pressure it needs to be and the displacement of the water is shown on a gauge. For more info on this go and do a wikipedia search on hydrostact test.

The other test is, I believe just called, a static test where the pressure vessel is filled with a fluid and checked for leaks. I couldn't find anything in Wiki for that.

If this subject is going to get carried on beyound Stews build here, please start another thread to disscuss the merits of this subject.

Now I return you to Stew's boiler build.

Carry on Stew. :ddb:

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Brass_Machine on August 08, 2010, 09:57:05 PM
Nice job Stew. Great write up too!

 :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

Eric
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on August 09, 2010, 06:26:18 AM
Excellent Stew   :ddb:
Bernd,

I believe the only tests required or our Boilers are hydraulic test - (correct me if I'm wrong Stew) water pumped into boiler to 1.5 times working pressure (probably around 120psi for Stew's) it's got to hold that for a set amount of time which a certain permissible drop in pressure. Then there's the steam test, really to check all fittings and mainly that the safety valves can release sufficient steam such that the pressure won't rise a certain amount over working pressure with the blower fully on.

I think these are done every year, the boiler has to come out of the frames every 4 years (not 100% sure on that, think it's changed recently.)

Cheers,

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on August 09, 2010, 06:59:10 AM
Hi Stew, thanks for clearing that up for me, I've read about such testing of boilers for decades, but never had to deal with such a thing myself, in my own line.  I think your boiler looks like it should hold up very well to all the tests, I can't say I've ever seen a better job on structural soldering, and your log shows all the work you've done along the way to make sure everything is in its proper place.  I'm really looking forward to the day you show the video of it steaming, and driving an engine.  You have truly done a "definitive build, particularly having had the problem with door/fitting interferance, and the remaking of the parts that caused problems.  The refit and moving of the mounts and such clearing the door yet keeping a decent looking set up, not too crowded with clutter.  Fingers are crossed for this test :poke: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Bernd on August 09, 2010, 02:22:54 PM
Nick,

Yes, that's it, just a plain hydraulc test. The other is a Hydro test.

The one you do is to make sure there are no leaks and that the saftey valves work. Got it straight now.

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sjb on August 09, 2010, 03:33:05 PM
Hi Stew,

Having built several boilers and made some mistakes I can offer this:

The secret to a successful boiler is cleanliness and having enough heat. The seivert 2943 should give you enough therms.

Do not clean your flanged plates with emery cloth.

Mix plenty of flux with clean water.

Use citric acid, Wilkinsons sell it but you need to ask for it.

If you can get hold of an old storage heater they have lots of refractory blocks to make a hearth with. Less gas that way  :D

Add bushes for the firebox door hinges.

Do not skimp on the chamfering when making the foundation ring.

Use 1/8 rivets for side stays and fit them before fitting the firebox door plate as it's easier to braze them that way.

If you can get hold ALEC FARMERS book on boiler making it's worth the read.

If you know all this already please ignore, the work looks good so far.

kind regards

Steve
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sjb on August 09, 2010, 03:36:05 PM

All,

Ignore my last post, Just realized there are lots and lots more pages, doh.  :doh:

Steve
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on August 12, 2010, 09:11:27 AM
Well Steve, with all that boiler advise, and just noticing all the posts, we expect to see some fine work out of you now!  I've been watching this build since it started with intense scrutiny, as I intend to build one for a steam engine I'm working on, and Stew has done a bang up job in both the build, with great material, and good working practice, and in the write up, showing all the details, and truly providing a "definitive build log" for any newbie who has never built a boiler, like myself, but who plans on doing one, and wants to do it right.  I'm looking forward to the posts you will be putting up for us to see, consider, and poke fun at, or demonstrate our awe, which ever is the right thing at the time.  Welcome, if I may, to a great bunch of guys building engines and things. :lol: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on August 27, 2010, 02:56:20 PM
Thanks for your input Chaps.

I've had this on hold for a few weeks, as I've been waiting to have some pressure gages checked out I'd acquired them over the years and was not sure if they were working OK and I didn't want to test the boiler with them not being sure if they worked. The guy who was going to check them let me down somewhat so last weekend I retrieved them.

After giving it some thought I thought the best thing to do was to make a manifold so that I could compare the gauges one with the others (I've four to choose from) that way a faulty gage would be eliminated by the other three.

I connected them to the boiler feed pump I made, like this looks a bit heath but it worked.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4305.jpg)

I couldn't get the gauges to tighten so that you could see both faces.

But this is what I got.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4306.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4307.jpg)

They were all different scales but I was able to detect that one gauge was reading 20 PSI light so that was dumped the other three were Ok and gave similar readings with each other.

Tomorrow will know be the big day:-I'll fix a couple of leeks i've got with the screw coupling on the regulator and one of the screwed longitudinal stays, then it will be fingers crossed.


This will be own test if all goes well I'll cut the end off the stays off and submit the boiler for official inspection.

Stew






 
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on August 27, 2010, 03:40:14 PM
Good luck Stew but im sure all will be fine. I will be in London on sunday so probably wont find out your results for a month.
If i get a chance to log in ill leave a comment :D

cheers Graham
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on August 27, 2010, 04:02:13 PM
Good luck Stew!  :thumbup:



Oooohhhh...... Graham! Not long now......  :D

I tried to get you two to meet up....... Hmmmmm......  :scratch:


David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on August 27, 2010, 04:14:34 PM
Thanks Graham/Dave

We'll have to see what we can do about a meet up.

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on August 27, 2010, 09:39:04 PM
Good luck, Stew!! 
As you may know, your build here is a popular one.  Good to see what you're up to with it.
I like your idea of testing the gauges against each other to check calibration.  The "rotten
egg elimination process". 
 :clap:

Dean
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on August 29, 2010, 04:29:28 AM
Well I sort of tested the boiler yesterday, I took it up to 40psi there was a leek from the inside of the hollow blower stay, so I gave the nut a tweak, when ping the bloody thing broke.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4314.jpg)

 :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

So did a bit of investigating the drawing calls for 5/32*22g copper pipe I was supplied 3/16*22g pipe as part of the boiler kit which I turned the end down and threaded 5/32 * 40 which had the effect of thinning the wall of the tube down that and being one turn short to tighten the nuts down resulted in overloading and the break. So I've got to order some 5/32 pipe next week before I can conduct the test again. On the positive side as 40 psi there was no signs of any other leeks.

Stew


Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on August 29, 2010, 04:33:44 AM
Stew, that's unlucky  :(, at least you found the culprit though. I think I said before, my club wanted to see both hollow and solid stays soldered in - maybe they've seen this sort of thing before. I can't see why not to solder it really or did lbsc have a specific reason for this? All the other ones i've seen are soldered.

Either way, it looks like 1 job and it's an official tested boiler  :thumbup:  :)

Nick

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on August 29, 2010, 05:15:31 AM
I'm coming round to the idea of soldering the longitudinal stays Nick. I showed the inspector the threaded stays last week and he didn't say anything about them, but I know some of the guys at the club solder them.  They screw into the front tube plate which is about 2.5mm thick so they are not holding onto much. I'm particularly concerned with the wet header Its 3/8 * 32 thread and it doesn't feel positive at all, I've screwed it into the tube plate with stud lock but I'm considering bushing it.

Stew



Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on August 29, 2010, 11:24:33 AM
Hi Stew, again, you show the weak point of design, demonstrate it admirably, (hard to get a better picture of tube failure than the one you show), and give us on the sidelines, a lesson for our own build, when it comes time.  Your comment on the "wet stay" and it's 3/8ths 32 thread touches a nerve of my own, having had failures which were just because I took a flat too many on a very fine thread.  Perhaps I'm speaking out of ignorance, correct me if you think so, but have you considered simply firing up a torch and soldering the threaded wet stay in place, as it stands now?  I have long used a "back nut" on long studs threaded into a plate I consider barely within the limits, and have had second thoughts and added solder after the nut, just for security.  Much of the work I used to do was on miniature electronics as goes in military aircraft, and finding hardware that was just barely within its capacity was not unusual, particularly with the equipment that we still had that came from the war era, some of it pre-war, from the early thirties.  With radar and high frequency radio, one is working with boxes and tubes very much like boilers, as "resonant chambers", and the fastening hardware has to hold up to the extremes of flight and the vibration of enormous engines and sheer inertia was a common culprit in the breaking of fasteners.  In any case, I hope your time with the inspector proves out the boiler, and gets you certified, so you can move forward closing it up and all. :nrocks:mostly because of the mechanics who work it. :headbang: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on August 30, 2010, 11:53:07 AM
Yeah, that's what they said to me, if they aren't being soldered they should be bushed. It's all together a slightly strange design I think. Anyway, you've made a few good mods to yours, it'll be sorted soon, bet you can't wait to crack on with it now!

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on September 02, 2010, 12:21:33 PM
thats bad luck Stew but im sure you will sort it

Graham In sunny midlands lol
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on September 12, 2010, 03:23:46 AM
An update:-

I've now tried two more blower tubes using tube from different suppliers, John and maccmodels, Johns tube was 5/32" I don't know what the wall thickness was, the macc tube was 5/32 * 22g (0.028 wall thickness) they both went ping when I tried tightening them down, now you're probably thinking I over tightened, but this is far from the truth, as a rule I'm what you would call a gentle engineer, some times I would admit I'm too gentle, and having one tube break I was extremely careful. The drawing calls for 5/32" tube it doesn't say what gauge. To put some numbers around the problem in the UK the standard gauge for 5/32 pipe seems to be 22g  (0.028" or 0.71mm) this has to be threaded 5/32*40 ME that will leave a wall thickness less than 0.015" or 0.38mm no wonder it's breaking.

I'm left with a number of options:-

Find some 3/32 tube with a thicker gauge, I've located a supplier who has some 20g (0.036" or 0.92mm) tube but I think he will only be interested in supplying a couple of tons which is out of the question I'm going to call him on Monday and see if he will supply me a small sample (don't ask don't get)

I can get 3/16 * 18g (0.048" or 1.2mm) tube, I would have to increase the thread in the fitting to 3/16 * 40 ME this would leave me a wall thickness of 0.032" or 0.81mm or more than twice what I've got know.

Fit a solid stay and rout the blower around the outside of the boiler.

I think I'm going to go for the 3/16 tube unless any of you Guys can suggest anything else.

Stew



Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: lordedmond on September 12, 2010, 04:03:31 AM
Save yourself the bother   run the blower feed out side the boiler and fit solid stays



Stuart
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: madjackghengis on September 12, 2010, 01:07:17 PM
This idea might be more bother than it's worth Stew, but you could carefully peen the end of the 3/16ths tube down to 5/32nds the length of the thread and thus upset and thicken the tube right where you are threading, and actually have it stronger right there, making up for the cutting of the threads weakening the tube.  That keeps you with the original threads in the fitting, no loss of strength in it opening it up for the 3/16ths, and still using the larger and thicker tubing.  It's not too hard to keep a soft tube like copper, round, while reducing its diameter thirty thousandths, but I'd anneal the peened end of it before threading, just to be sure a crack doesn't show up from work hardening.  I've had to do it to get a piece of straight tube into a tapered hole so it could be well soldered in, and had success.  I like to buy studs rather than make them because threaded studs as bought are roll threaded and much stronger than cutting threads for your own studs and I'd recommend rolling the thread instead of cutting it, but I don't know anyone with thread rolling equipment other than for bicycle spokes, and I think they are for fixed sizes and not merely adjustable for different spoke thicknesses.  There's always the possibility of motorcycle spokes happening to be the right gauge and a shop having a rolling machine.  For what it's worth,  :poke: mad jack
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on September 13, 2010, 10:41:04 AM
Stew,

I will whip mine out of the boiler tonight and see how it's been done just for info. Suppose you could route it outside the boiler but where? It could look messy unless you went through cab floor underneath running board. You'd have to go in through the side of the smoke box though as the cylinders are underneath it.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: lordedmond on September 13, 2010, 10:55:36 AM
NickG

most of the British standard class loco's have the blower feed outside not though the boiler. my class 4 tank has it outside and fits just under the ejector elbow, just a part of the smoke box furniture so to speak with the ejector itself bolted on there it look fine


I am not evan sure if any 12 inch to the foot loco's had the blower feed integral with the boiler

if the sight of the pipe offends then disguise it as a hand rail


then normal model why was to fit a concentric bush 40 tpi outside and 40 tpi internal and screw that in to the boiler shell and pipe together therefor no stress on the pipe but a good seal if you use copper slip it will seal
 
Stuart
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on September 13, 2010, 12:36:22 PM
Thanks Nick that would be useful

Stuart

Thats a good point about the seal I've bin thinking that screwing the joints up tight mite not be the right way to go to get a seal, the hollow stay has to take the loading from the boiler pressure on the tube plate, so any additional load from tightening is not a good idea, I was thinking of using bosswhite or somesuch sealant, how does the copper slip work does it need to harden off with the heat from the boiler ?.

Thanks very much all for your input.

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on September 14, 2010, 04:07:09 AM
Stew,

I was thinking the same last night when I took mine out. (sorry no pics yet) It's designed to seal on the screw thread itself rather than up to a shoulder I think so it doesn't need to be tight and as you say, it could make it worse when it's compounded by the boiler expanding longitudinally.

I measured mine as best I could and it's 5/32" OD and I measured 0.098" ID so probably 22g the same as you had. it seemed fairly robust when I was screwing it in hand tight into the front tube plate bush - I think it should only be hand tight, you just need some sort of sealent.

Is your tube soldered into the valve at the backhead end? Mine is.

Been thinking about it again and hopefully when the new boiler inspector sees it, he'll agree to leave it unsoldered as it would be handy to be able to get it out if it ever gets blocked. Otherwise I think I may to a solid stay and route outside. I had problems once with an old 5" engine I had with the hollow blower stay being bunged up.

Cheers,

Nick

Thanks,

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on September 14, 2010, 07:46:15 AM
Thanks for that Nick

I've just had delivered a 5/32 solid stay but I'm thinking of having one more go with a hollow stay with some sort of sealant.

I wasn't thinking of soldering the valve our boiler inspector doesn't seem to concerned if its soldered or not.

Cheers

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: lordedmond on September 14, 2010, 12:13:30 PM
Stew

boss white will do but copper slip will enable you get the threads in they will be 99.9999999% of the time out of phase that in its self will ensure a seal


but as I said use a solid one with a  a pipe out side , a hollow stay will not add that much strength anyway


BTW my chassis and boiler are going to Myfords open day and to the Warwick show on the NSMEE stand
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on September 14, 2010, 01:21:02 PM
Thanks Stuart:- I'm going to try copper slip,  I was thinking of going over to the Myford show I under stand they have lots of kit for sale recovered from workshop clearances, If I go I'll look out for your loco, will you be their ?.

Well today i took delivery of a solid stay, it didn't break but a I still had difficulty getting the threads to seal I tried ptfe tape but the joints just kept weeping, next try I'll use copper slip.

But I did get it up to 160 psi a couple of times and it held pressure long enough for me to check out all the soldered joints and they were all good, I'm now going to cut off the spikes and book the boiler in for a test with the inspector.

 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4388.jpg)

Happy Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on September 14, 2010, 02:12:20 PM
Well done stew, my solid stay is soldered in, as long as you get a good seal don't suppose it matters.
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on September 14, 2010, 06:57:14 PM
Looks good on your home hydro test, Stew!  I'm sure you'll be all flying colors on the big test day.
Best of luck!

Dean
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on September 15, 2010, 03:34:56 AM
Stew, you lost me a little while ago.....  ::)

That was when a piece of pipe went ping, and you started talking of stays, wet headers, to solder, or not to solder, that is the question!

GOOD LUCK, for the test day!  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on September 15, 2010, 08:15:20 AM
Yep, good luck Stew - you don't need it mind you!  :thumbup:  :clap:

When  if I ever get mine ready for testing I'll have to leave my regulator in as the two screws that hold it in need to go into something. Suppose could seal with nut underneath or something and bung regulator up as that is likely to cause leaking?

Cheers,

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on September 15, 2010, 10:11:34 AM
Thanks Guys

I repeated the test this morning using copper slip to seal the threads it worked great.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4389.jpg)

I then cut off the spikes and cleaned the boiler up with a brass wire brush.

Then I couldn't resist seeing how it looked between the frames

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4395.jpg)

Starting to look like a proper loco know.

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on September 15, 2010, 10:16:51 AM
Stew, looks amazing, boiler looks like a bought professional one, loco isn't too bad either!!!  :thumbup:  :clap:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Stilldrillin on September 15, 2010, 10:37:16 AM
By 'ek lad..... That's beautiful!  :bugeye: :clap: :clap:

David D
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Bogstandard on September 15, 2010, 12:15:56 PM
No flies on you Stew, that really does look like a boiler should, and now the pressure test, and everything should be fine.

John
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Brass_Machine on September 15, 2010, 12:37:14 PM

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Boiler/100_4395.jpg)


 :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Very very nice Stew!!!

I like that.

Eric
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Dean W on September 15, 2010, 05:56:19 PM
Stew, when you mention "copper slip", it that some kine of metal paste, like never seize, or do you mean some
kind of a mechanical fitting?

Thanks,

Dean
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: AdeV on September 15, 2010, 08:26:06 PM
 :bow:

I aspire to be as good as you, Stew. I think it will take me many years. Beautiful work.

Dean - Copper slip is a coppery grease which allegedly ensures that a screw once done up, can always be undone again at a later date; but, in my experience, it is most often used to glue spark plugs into car engines...
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on September 16, 2010, 01:44:02 AM
Thanks for you kind comments Guys

Dean as Adev said "copper slip" is a coppery grease I think it helps getting a seal by letting the threads slip over each other more easily so you get things tighter, and they can be undone again so I guess it must be like never seize.

Thanks you all again

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Divided he ad on September 18, 2010, 03:45:58 PM
Stew,


 :bow:  :bugeye:  :jaw:  :clap:  :thumbup:



Top looker you got there. You're going to have a lot of fun when it's finished I'll bet?


Copper slip/copper easy.... Gluing spark plugs in?  Better than steel to aluminium without lube of any sort!! Usually over tightening causes the issues doesn't it?  But now way  :offtopic: Sorry Stew.



Again, looks great and as Ade says "I think it will take me many years. "  to get to the stage where that will be possible or at least have the patience required  :med:






Ralph.


Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Powder Keg on September 26, 2010, 01:04:30 PM
I just read through this entire post. Super job!!! I would like to build a traction engine one day. Maybe as soon as I finish a couple projects I'll start on one? Thanks for posting pictures they are great!!!
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on September 27, 2010, 02:01:55 AM
Thanks Wesley

Seeing all the engines running round the track at the club Gala last week stiffened my resolve to crack on and get the engine finished, but before I do that I've got a few other jobs to complete.

I've a liking for Traction Engines, and done quite a bit a research into building them, collected drawings for a few of the smaller 1" and 1 1/2" /ft, the biggest problem is having the machine capacity to make the large diameter rear wheels, and for the larger scales, 2" and above, builders seem to prefer steel boilers I think because the boiler supports the weight of the engine.

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: Bogstandard on September 27, 2010, 04:20:04 AM
You have a largish lathe at your disposal right here Stew. Or you might even be able to roll them on that 3 in 1 I have in the back room.

John
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: shoey51 on September 27, 2010, 05:37:18 PM
Just got back from my overseas jaunt
catching up on things here
must say Stew that looks lovely well done mate :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on July 10, 2011, 03:20:48 AM
Stew, was just thinking the other night about the problem you had with the water gauge / clack clashing together so had to come and skim through your build log again first thing this morning! How did you solve the problem in the end, Did you change the design, you seem to have a bush on top of the boiler now instead of that curved bit soldered onto the top but where is the water gauge bush on the backhead?  :scratch:

Cheers,

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on July 10, 2011, 04:08:19 AM
Nick

yes thats what i did the guys at the club recon that a screwd bush is better than that curved thing shown on the drawing, I also moved the position of the clack valves to the front of the barrel just behind the smoke box, the guys reccon its better to feed the cold water into the front rather than at the back onto the fire box.
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: metalmad on July 10, 2011, 05:46:54 AM
Looking fantastic Stew  :thumbup:
 :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Pete
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on July 10, 2011, 08:37:41 AM
Did you put a clack on each side of the barrel then stew or still using the right hand one on the back head? Thought I'd missed somethign  :doh: Are you using the bush on the left side of the back head as the water gauge bush then? Is that in it's original position or is it really the clack position? Presume you'll have to make up some sort of elbow joint to connect to the top one too then? Am just mulling over what to ask for if I do  get a professionally made boiler.

Cheers

Nick
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on July 10, 2011, 11:25:25 AM

Nick I put a clack on both sides of the barrel.

The bush on the left hand side will be the water gauge.

Yes there will be an elbow at the top.

Stew

Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: NickG on July 11, 2011, 05:59:09 AM
Ok, cheers Stew sounds more sensible. I believe there are certain regulations now that your water gauge must have a blow down, valves must be captive - have you done the blower valve yet? and something with the Safety valve has changed? Also, we have to have the working pressure marked on the inside of the pressure gauge. I'll try to find out these little intricies tomorrow night at the club.
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: sbwhart on July 11, 2011, 07:01:23 AM
I believe there are certain regulations now that your water gauge must have a blow down, valves must be captive - have you done the blower valve yet? and something with the Safety valve has changed? Also, we have to have the working pressure marked on the inside of the pressure gauge. I'll try to find out these little intricies tomorrow night at the club.

Yes thats my understanding of the water gauge as well.

No I don't think I have but I have a box of bits that I made some time ago and I can't remember whats in their.

Don't know abiut the safety valve I was going to buy one just take the uncertainty out of it.

Yes the gauge has to be marked I've peeped over the inspectors shoulders when he's checked a couple of boilers and that one thing he looks for.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a Boiler for a 3 1/2" Gauge Locomotive
Post by: SPiN Racing on July 11, 2011, 03:48:20 PM
Beautiful work Stew.. I obviously missed this build sofar.. beautiful work!

Scott