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Gallery, Projects and General => Project Logs => Topic started by: sbwhart on December 24, 2008, 06:45:21 AM

Title: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on December 24, 2008, 06:45:21 AM
Ok Chaps Her's my starter for ten

The Loco is a 2-4-0 LNWR Precedent Class to LBSC's Mabel Design. Hers a photo of a model built by a chap in Canada

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/JUMBO1.jpg)

I choose a LNWR loco because both my Grandfather and Great Grandfather had both been loco drivers with the Company. LBSC otherwise known a Curly Lawrence serialised the construction in Model Engineer in the sixties, just before died, his last of over fifty model loco designs. The Precedent class of Loco earned the nick name JUMBO by its crews from its power and work rate, with one engine HARDWICK clocking up over 2 million miles in just over ten years, this Loco is know preserved at the national railway museum in York. I like the idea that my predecessor may have drove this engine

I bought a set of castings and drawings from Reeves and being on the lazy side ordered set of laser cut frames from another company this saved me a fair bit of work (and hacksaw blades) as they also marked out all the holes positions.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/IMG_1245.jpg)


I held off with the boiler, agonising over this safety critical component, : the thought of making a boiler scared the sh1t out of me, A commercially made boiler would cost about £1000 whilst the bits to make one would be about £350. I joined my local model-engineering club (South Cheshire Model Engineering Society http://www.southcheshiremes.com ). A lot of the chaps at the society have built quite a few Locos and have loads of experience with boilers  :bow:, they convinced me that I could build my own boiler and that they would help, if all goes to plan I should be starting my boiler in the summer:- so watch this space. :clap:

Have Fun

 :wave:

Sew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on December 24, 2008, 08:24:41 AM
To bring you up to date I'll load up some photos of the build to date most of the photos will be selve explanitry. As with most things there is more than one way to do a job this is just the way I did it, there are probibly better ways, the important thing is to do it safely and to have fun.

Cutting slot in buffers beams, the beams are clamped together a a pair so that they are exactly the same

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/IMG_1575.jpg)

Milling up the outside of the hornblocks

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/IMG_1571.jpg)

Milling the horn blocks up to take the bearing. The horn blocks a riveted to the frames and the frames temporary riveted together back to back so that everything lines up axactly, you rivet the frames together for drilling holes ect so everything lines upexact

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/IMG_1632.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/IMG_1633.jpg)

Making the bearing blocks again you have to ensure that the blocks assemble into the horn blocks in the same way as they were machined so that the holes line up for the axles.  :borg:

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/IMG_1627.jpg)
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on December 24, 2008, 08:41:49 AM
The buffer had angle brackets riveted to them I tried brazing but a trial run on some scrap resulted in failure I couldn't get enough heat out of my kit so riveting it was.

The beam was then clamped together on the main strecher frames and when everything was nice a square, checked by measuring the diagonals, the fixing holes were spotted through onto the buffer beam and the lot screwed together.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0163.jpg)

Next job was the wheels thse were turned up on a sacrifical face plate and a mandrel so that they were all exactly the same size.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0238.jpg)

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on December 24, 2008, 10:56:51 AM
The axles are made from ground mild steel bar, which was set up to run dead true in four jaw both end centred and the diameter turned between centres for a push fit on the wheels. The crank anxle was made up in sections:(sorry no photos) the section were glued together with high strength loctite and pinned after assembly, it takes about 30 seconds to go off so it gives you a chance to get things lined up, to get things at 90 deg I used a set of 1"2"3" blocks these are realy andy bit of kit to have round the shop.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0285.jpg)

The wheels were drilled for the crank pins using a simple jig so that they were all the same the crank pins again were turned up as a push fit in the wheels and fixed with high strenght loctite I'll pin them at a later date when I know everything is OK, the wheels were quatered on the axles using the 1 2 3 blocks and a set square a bit of a fiddle where you wish you had three hands  :borg: but with care and a bit of practice it can be done. 

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0296.jpg)
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on December 24, 2008, 11:39:28 AM
Next bit was the coupling rods:- first job was to mark one rod out, then using a jig with a off set bush accuratly set it up on the wheel crank pin centres, checking that both sides are the same if you've got your quartering or your bearings wrong it will show up at this point.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0307.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0325.jpg)

Then use this jig to transfer the hole centres to your coupling rod: drill one hole in each rod than clamp them together with the jig and drill the other hole through both this way everything will match up.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0327.jpg)

The next part was to make a jig for milling out the rods, I had two attemps at this my first being a right cock up  :hammer: the sucessful method was to locate off dowels in the crank holes this way everything came out on their centre line including the fluting.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0776.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0780.jpg)

The final job was to radius out the end I could have done these with a filing button, but I like to machine things out so I used my rotary table.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0784.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0785.jpg)

Hows it going so far chaps :D

I hope I'm not using up yo much memory with the photos

 :)

Cheers
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Bernd on December 24, 2008, 12:02:16 PM
Ok Stew. On your first post I think you were nipping at the egg nog. :D I see you spelt your name without a "T" in it.  :lol:

Pics could be of the size you used showing the wheel being turned. Others are a bit small for veiwing detail.

Very nice looking engine by the way. It'll be nice to see it under steam.

Why are so many British engines made with inside cylinders? It would seem they would be hard on the maintance crew to service.

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on December 24, 2008, 12:22:52 PM
Hi Bernd

Thanks for the comments I was a bit concerned that the big pics would gobble up too much memory but that's probibly me I don't understand these computer thingies very much :scratch: I've no idea why they liked inside cylinders, with this particular loco the slide valves were inclined on an angle, this is what they atributed their power too, the steam having a more direct route into the cylinders, I don't know if this is correct or not.

The missing T you can atribute to unruley fingers that and my poor spelling:- spelling is somthing I've strugled with all my live, its probibly held me back a bit:- spell checker rules ok  :headbang: speeking of which where is the a spell checker  :scratch:

Cheers
 :wave:
Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Bernd on December 24, 2008, 12:44:27 PM
I don't think you need to worry about space for the pics. I'm sure the software will yell at you if it gets to be to much.  :)

What you said does make sense about a more direct route to to the cylinders. :thumbup:

I have a problem typing too. Sometimes the brain (all of 2 cells) are working faster than the fingers can type. I noticed my lack of spelling when I post. What's worse is my grammer and compousre of what I'm trying to say. ::)

I had asked Eric about that to, spell checker. I sometimes will prepare a long post using my word processor and then just doing a "copy" to transfer the post to the board. Then I go and add the smilies aftwards. :dremel:

Anyway, looking forward to more posts on that engine build. Just make the pics a bit bigger so we can see the detail. Now get with it.  :whip:  :D

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on December 24, 2008, 02:03:03 PM
Stew,

Very nice set of interesting articles.
 
I wouldn't worry too much about the spelling, if we can understand it, that is all that matters. Everyone has their own little problems, and you shouldn't let it hold you back on expressing yourself.

I usually set my picture size before uploading to bucket as x = 8" y = 6" for landscape pics and x = 6" y = 8" for portrait. At those sizes they are big enough to see, but not too big that you have to scroll the page to see all the piccy. By putting the pics into bucket and putting a link to it, saves a great deal of space on the site.

I personally must get back to putting pics into bucket first, as really I am being lazy just posting them straight into the article under 'additional options', I normally only use that for crap-o-cad sketches.

Nice one Sew

Bosg
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Brass_Machine on December 24, 2008, 11:08:05 PM
Very nice Stew.

Worry not about the space for pictures. I still have plenty left!

As far as the spell check... that is coming guys. I need to move over to the dedicated server first. This is a shared server and the hosting company doesn't want to install the needed files for the spell checker to work with the SMF sofftware.

Eric
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on December 28, 2008, 05:59:44 AM
Hi Chaps

Tried resizing photos already posted but no mater what I did they ended up the same size

So here we go with the again:-

The excentrics were made from a 30mm dia cunk of mild steel they were turned up all together, and the off set hole set up by simply putting a piece of packing the correct size between a jaw and the work in the three Jaw chuck, the hole was drilled and reamed and the slices of excentric parted off making a few spare, I also retaining a piece of the finished bar to act as a gauge when I bored the sheeves:- Sorry no photos of this as I forgot to take them :hammer:

The sheeves are made from phos bronze castings. The first job was to drill the castings for the clamping holes, then cut them in half, after cleaning the cut face up, the bottome half was tapped 6BA the top half opened up as clearance

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0828.jpg)

The two halves were then clamped together:- Tip a small bush turned up the finished width of the excentric used as a washer, so that when you skim the excentric to width you leave a witness mark on the bush this way the holes will be in the midle, and sheeve the will outomaticaly be the correct width.

Set the sheeve up in the four jaw and bore out to a nice fit on the gauge. Then skim to width you can do this eather in the four jaw or set the piece you used as a gauge in the three jaw and tighten the sheeve on this using a piece of paper as packing.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0829.jpg)



Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on December 29, 2008, 06:50:17 AM
Connecting rods

The connecting rods are made from mild steel, the first job was to mark out one rod, then to drill the little ends and to clamp the two rods together using this hole. With the two rods clamped together the rods were milled out.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0788.jpg)

The big end clamping bolt holes were drilled out with the rod set up on an angle plate,

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0790.jpg)

 The big end caps were then cut off the rod, the cut face cleaned up and the hole in the cap opened out as clearance and the holes in the rod tapped 6BA, the caps were then screwed back onto the rods, and the hole for the big end bearing drilled out. The big end bearing is made from phosphore bronze, as this is a split bearing two chunk of material was milled in half, the two halves soldered together, and set up in the four jaw with the split on the centre, and the bearing turned, heating it up released the two halves. The little end bearing is just a plain bush held in place with high strength loctite.

Completed crank axle

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0833.jpg)
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on December 29, 2008, 08:10:05 AM
Pictures are perfect size Stew, and the article is coming along nicely.

John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Bernd on December 29, 2008, 12:47:36 PM
Yup, the pics are great, 640 X 480 pixels, perfect.

Nice job on getting all the hardware between the frame. It'd be interesting to see that in motion.

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on January 03, 2009, 11:02:50 PM
Hi Stew,

Now since our brief (but fun) meeting at Boggies on friday I've been waiting for a post on the finished loco.... Only kiddin'  :bugeye:  just the cylinder  :thumbup:


I've got to say it here too... Your a brave man for taking on such a build, not just the complexities more the dedication  :bow:

Looking forward to seeing it take shape as are a lot of people I think?


Ralph.

Oh and.....

Bernd....
Quote
Yup, the pics are great, 640 X 480 pixels, perfect.
  Does this mean my posts are too big??

I don't know if I could go about re-sizing everything.... That would take ages!!  :lol:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 04, 2009, 02:27:09 AM
Hi Ralph

It was good meeting up with you only sorry I couldn't stick arround longer:- as it was it took an hour for the boss to speak to me,:------- only an hour I was banking on at least two :lol:


Obvoiusly I should have stayed longer

Got about 2 to 3 weeks work left on the cylinders then I'll post the build, in the mean time I'm not quite up to date with current progress, so I'll try and get it posted today.

How's the old finger engine going ?
 :poke:

Have
  :wave:
Fun

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 04, 2009, 07:51:03 AM
OK Chaps her's the first instalment for machining the cylinders

The two inside Cylinders are machined from the same casting, as are the steam ports

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/cylinder1.jpg)

A set of cylinder castings were ordered from Reeves this included the cylinder casting the end covers the steam chest and the steam chest cover

First job was to check the castings over and clean off any flashing, they seamed OK. Before starting to cut metal I always like to read up as much as I can about how other people have gone about the job, from this research I work out a method, in my head, that I think will suite me and the kit Iíve got. It also gives you chance to work out which are the critical features, as is so often found the critical feature is more to do with square-ness and alignment, the size of the bore are not really that important as you can make the pistons to fit if any thing the finish in the bores is more important than the size. If the bores are not square to the frame and parallel to each other the motion will bind causing wear and excessive loading.

I decided to follow the method in good old Curleyís words and music. He recommends using a faceplate with an angle plate mounted on it, squaring the casting up on this and bringing to size. The positions of the cylinders are marked out by first plugging the bore with wood, then by putting a parallel between the cylinder and face plate and pushing the cylinder hard up against the parallel, will ensure that bores come out square a good sturdy clamp over the top keeps it in place on the angle plate, you can know move the angle plate about on the face plate and everything will stay square. Using your centre height gauge get one bore positioned, and to maintain vertical alignment clamp a parallel under the angle plate, so that when you come to do the second bore you just need to slide the angle plate along to get the horizontal position.

You need to add balance weights to the face plate to counteract the out of balance mass from the angle plate and casting, you can use anything you have at hand for this, I cast up some lead weights from some old lead piping I had, but lathe change gears will do just as well.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0802.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0818.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0820.jpg)

Averything went to plan first bore machined up great, then with the second bore I decided to try coolant to see if I could improve the finish:- Desaster the coolant pipe got jambed between the job and the boring bar resulting in three dirty great grooves in the bore

 :(  :(  :(  :(  :(  :(

Will Bandit come to save the day watch this space for next weeks thrilling instalment

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Brass_Machine on January 04, 2009, 08:54:39 AM
How are you going to fix the grooves?

Eric
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Bernd on January 04, 2009, 09:30:14 AM

Oh and.....

Bernd....
Quote
Yup, the pics are great, 640 X 480 pixels, perfect.
  Does this mean my posts are too big??

I don't know if I could go about re-sizing everything.... That would take ages!!  :lol:

Ralph,

I don't think I want to go there. :lol:

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on January 05, 2009, 03:38:29 AM
Firstly.....  :bugeye:  Grooves in your bore!!!! can you re-size?  That sounds like it could have been a heart stopper  :jaw:


Secondly.... The finger engines will be coming along once I get the new materials.... Hopefully before the end of the week?


Thirdly, Bernd.... Good... I don't want to either  :D



Got to go to work now  :(



Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on January 05, 2009, 04:18:15 AM
Stew,

If you still haven't got the groove issue sorted, pop around and I am sure I can find some PB for you to resleeve with.

John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Darren on January 05, 2009, 04:21:42 AM
Stew, that's not nice when it happens is it... :(

John, what a simple solution....thanks for sharing  :dremel:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: John-Som on January 05, 2009, 04:32:45 AM

Whilst waiting for my workshop to warm up this morning I read thro the build notes on your loco Ė very impressive, I am in awe !!!  I was particularly pleased to find your notes on machining the eccentrics. As this is what I shall be tackling this morning on my mill engine Ė

Quote
Tip a small bush turned up the finished width of the excentric used as a washer, so that when you skim the excentric to width you leave a witness mark on the bush this way the holes will be in the midle, and sheeve the will outomaticaly be the correct width.

These tips are little gems to those like me on a steep learning curve.

I am beginning to think there must be something in the Cheshire water that produces such talented engineers.

John S
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 05, 2009, 04:59:24 AM
Hi John and John S

Work has started to get in the way again I'll post the next chapter tonight.

John thanks for the offer of material to sleeve, but as you'l read I went another way.

John S pleased to be of help, I can't help but admire people who start this game off their own backs, with very little experience, and go on and produce some superb work, if I can help in any way please don't hesitate to ask.

Have
 :wave:
Fun

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on January 05, 2009, 05:46:31 AM
John,

Quote
I am beginning to think there must be something in the Cheshire water that produces such talented engineers

At one time in the not too distant past, I reckon about 80% of the male working population in this area was involved in engineering of some sort or another, railway works, Rolls-Royce (now Bentley Motors), Fodens and ERF (steam wagons and later, road haulage trucks), Royal Ordnance (munitions production), Midland Rollmakers (casting and machining steel mill rolls), plus all the small supporting industries etc. My wife even worked at Royal Ordnance for a time. So really we in this area have it in our blood, so if only a small few of the ones who were working in it took it up as a hobby, then we would automatically have a larger than normal percentage of model engineers.

Because of the large amounts of people who worked in the railway industry, or had some sort of connection with it, like Stew for instance, there is a thriving community who build and run model locomotives. The rest of us have a lean in other directions of model engineering.

John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 05, 2009, 12:58:18 PM
(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0955.jpg)

Options

1.   Bore out big and make oversize piston to suite.
2.   Bore out big and Sleeve back to size.
3.   Buy a new casting.
4.   Buy a chunk of Phosphor Bronze and machine this up.

A new casting would cost £ 85, a chunk of Phosphor Bronze would cost £ 35, I didnít like the idea of going over size or sleeving the bore, as there was not much meat left in the wall of the cylinder. I bit the bullet and bought a block of phosphor bronze that had 1/8Ē machining allowance on it all round, the supplier (College Engineering Supplies) were prepared to cut the block to size with no additional charge. Going this way meant that some of the casting detail would be lost: however, this would be well hidden between the frames so was of no consequence.

Starting from scratch again:- this time squaring up the block was a lot easier, I simply held the block in my big four jaw chuck, got everything nice and square and brought it to size. As I was dealing with a solid chunk of material there was no need to plug the bores for marking out the hole centres.

Tip :- Mark the centre of the block and the bore centres clearly and extend the lines all the way round so you can pick up off these when you marking or machining other features, also scribe the diameter of the bores as a check that your machining is going OK.

The job was set up on a face/angle plate as before but this time clamping was easier because of the more uniform shape. A good big deep centre drill followed by progressively bigger drills, to get the meat out:- a job that was made much easier thanks to the modification to the tail stop suggested by John (Bogs) this stopped the drill spinning on the taper.  Swapping over to the boring bar to bring the bore to size, this time everything went OK.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0845.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0850.jpg)

Machining out Steam Ports

First Job was to accurately mark out the position of the steam ports as Iíd got the scrap casting I marked this out as well, as I planned to have a practice on this first. The steam inlet port is 1/8Ē and the exhaust port ľĒ wide, I acquired some slot drills these diameters. As my machine is graduated in metric, I drew out the steam ports in autocad with the required table co-ordinates.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0862.jpg)

I use the old Fag Paper Trick (cigarette paper for you folk living in the colonies) to find the edge of the casting, but I donít run the machine, instead I use a plain set piece that is dead on 6mm diameter, salvaged from on old Video player, advancing the table until I feel a pull on the paper, the machine is zeroed and the position set to the co-ordinates.

A quick check that all looks OK with the marking out, and you can start to cut metal.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0863.jpg)

When milling slots like these Iíve found it best with my machine to first drill two holes slightly smaller than the slot at the extremes ends, this prevents the cutter pulling into the corner and giving you a ďhockey stick endĒ. With my machine also I put a cut on from the same end, putting a cut on from both ends gives a series of steps in the slots, as the cutter is first pulled one way and then the other resulting in a slot wider than the cutters, and I take small 1mm deep cuts. Tip:- Donít forget to lock the table in position.  It is quite a simple matter then to progress slowly and methodically to finish off the ports, itís a job that I find satisfying.

Cutting steam ports I think is one of those jobs where it pays to have a practice on a piece of scrap first, to develop a method that best suits your kit and machine, youíve nothing to lose, even if it means having two or three goes.

Drilling the steam ways into the valve ports was a matter of carfully marking out there position and transfering the line to the outside of the casting. The casting was then gripped in the machine vice, and getting it lined up with with the aid of a set square. As the drill has to go in on an angle it will run off if you don't start it with a good deep centre drill, filing a small flat will help, but even with this you will need to take it stead. These holes are on the deep side, and can run off if you don't take it easy and keep pulling the drill out to clear the chips.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0865-1.jpg)

Well that was the Job back on track a bit expensive, but I learnt one valuable leson:- you don't always need expensive castings

 :D    :D    :)     :)

Have fun
 :wave:

Stew



Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on January 05, 2009, 01:15:21 PM
Stew,

That proves my brain is on the way out, I now remember you showing me that on my first visit to your shop.

A real nice rescue.

John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 05, 2009, 05:10:45 PM
Steam Chest

The steam chest is machined from a casting with the valve rod stuffing glands an integral part of the casting. First job was to clean up the casting and check it over with a ruler and look for blow holes. The casting was set up in the angle plate and squared up and the outside dimensions machined to size, it was then blued up and the inside features and stuffing gland position marked out.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0868.jpg)

The casting was set up in angle plate pushed up hard against a parallel so as to keep it square. The centre height gauge was used to locate the centr of one of the stuffing glands. A deep centre followed by a roughing drill followed by finishing drill all the way through, this was then drilled to depth with a 5/16*32 tapping drill and the hole tapped. The casting moved over and the second stuffing gland machined

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0867.jpg)

Using a cranked turning tool the outside of the boss was then cleaned up.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0866.jpg)

The casting was set up in the machine vice on parallels and the inside cleaned up to the lines with a small end mill and the corners squared up with a hand file in the bench vice.

The clamping holes were marked out, the casting set up again in the machine vice and the clamping holes drilled. The steam chest was carefully positioned on the cylinder I used supper glue to fix it doesnít set  straight away so youíve got a chance to get the position right, alternately you could use two way type. It was set up in the machine vice with a tool makers clamp keeping the chest in place, the hole positions were spotted through onto the cylinder, the steam chest removed and the clamping holes drilled a tapped in the cylinder, taking care not to go too deep.

Tip:- use the tapping drill first in the steam chest only open them out to the clearance drill when youíve spotted through to the cylinder.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0872.jpg)

Ok that will do for a few days

Have :wave:

fun

Stew


Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Darren on January 05, 2009, 05:25:36 PM
Please keep these coming Stew, I'm fascinated.... :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Brass_Machine on January 05, 2009, 06:11:31 PM
Nice Save Stew!

I am with Darren on this one. Keep em coming!

Eric
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Bernd on January 05, 2009, 06:51:32 PM
Nice save Stew. Your showing some good use of a faceplate and angle plate to machine stuff.

I'm interested in what's going to go inside that steam chest.

Keep up the good work. :thumbup:

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 06, 2009, 03:14:11 AM
Hi Bernd/Darren/Eric

Thanks for your support, I'm just finishing off the cylinder covers then I need to drill the cylinder block to take these, the next job after this will be the slide valves that go in the steam chest. I'm not quite sure when I when get onto these we're in the porcess of changing our computer system going over to a Apple Mac with a change of service providor and a home hub, so I can see myselve spending a bit of time on this, not being a computer buff I think it will be a bit of a pain  :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

I'll keep in touch through work whilst were getting new system running  :coffee:

Have Fun

 :wave:

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: John-Som on January 06, 2009, 04:15:42 AM
Stew

I am finding the blow by blow account of your machining operations absolutely fascinating.  I must confess that so far I have not attempted to use the face plate and angle plate method of work holding and I suspect I may be missing out.
 
I had come to the conclusion that when boring out cylinders it is easier to set up the block in the machine vice and bore out on the mill ? This way I can, without disturbing the position of the block use DRO co-ordinates to position and drill fixing holes.  I also felt that it was easier to obtain a rigid set up on the mill than it is in the lathe. Maybe I am following the wrong route.

I would be interested in your thoughts on this.

John S
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 06, 2009, 05:02:46 AM
Hi John

I'm pleased that you'r finding my effort of interest.

Ther's more than one way to bore cylinders, the important thing is to drop on a method that gets the best result out of the equipment you have at hand. The main advantage in using the lathe is that you can use a good stiff boring bar and take advantage of the lathe's automatic feed, boring heads don't tend to be as stiff and small mills don't always have automatic feed.

But all this is relative depending on the size of bore etc, in fact I sucessfully bored out some cylinders for small traction engines (1" to 12" scale) using a boring head, in this case I held the cylinder in the verticle slide and the boring head in the lathe spindle,

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/IMG_1241.jpg)

Knowing what the best method to adopt, will come with experience, and knowledge, read all you can, ask as many questions as you can, and enjoy what you do. I've been involved with machine work all my working live, but I'm always learning I supose that's what makes this game so obsorbing.

Have Fun
 :scratch:

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: kellswaterri on January 06, 2009, 06:35:04 AM
Hello all, I am inclined to agree on the lathe aspect for boring cylinders...mainly the fine feed fuction giving more control over the finish and also the rigidity of the boring cutter...I did all my cylinders on the face plate and as long as the set up is well balanced good results should be expected.
All the best for now,
                           John.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: kellswaterri on January 06, 2009, 04:25:09 PM
 I also felt that it was easier to obtain a rigid set up on the mill than it is in the lathe. Maybe I am following the wrong route.
Hello all,
John S, would I be right that some ''Professional'' milling machines have a powered variable ''fine'' down feed, so your comment re. boring on the mill would be quite justified...I stand to be corrected :wack:
All the best for now,
                           John.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on January 06, 2009, 05:22:09 PM
As Stew says, it is all to do with how happy you feel about doing the job.

No two people have the same thoughts on doing a job, it all depends on experience in using what you have, and how happy you are with the setup.

The safety aspect must always come into the equation, and if you don't feel safe with the setup, find another way to do it.

I will relay a fact that that was told to me over the last weekend by a friend who races motorcycles.

He had just heard that a well known tuning expert that he knew, had been killed.

The 'expert' was turning, using the faceplate of his lathe to mount a component on. The part threw off the faceplate, hit him in the chest, forcing a broken bone into his heart, he died instantly.

If that sort of thing can happen to a person doing it all the time for a living, we have to be doubly sure we have a rigid and safe setup when we do it.
 
I do faceplate work, but I am always aware of the dangers involved, and class it as one of the most dangerous things to do on a lathe. Vibrations due to being out of balance, can cause nuts to loosen off very quickly.

Lets be careful out there

Bogs
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 06, 2009, 05:28:49 PM
Good Advice John  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 07, 2009, 02:58:24 AM
I'd like to thank John for reminding us of the danger of face plate work.

And to add to Johns warning I'd like to point out a few precausions we should allways make when doing any set up

1:- Only use clamps bolts T-nut etc that fit the fixture correctly, don't try and bodge with the wrong parts

2:- Check and double check that everything is tight down and won't work lose.

3:- Before powering up check that nothing is will catch and damage your lovely machine or injure yourselve:-  switch the power supply off from the machine and turn it over by hand.

4:- Run at slow speed all this face/angle plate work I did was with my machines slowest speed 70 RPM, before you power up check that you've got the correct speed selected, out of balance effects will be magnified by high speeds

5:- Don't stand in line with the work, stand to one side.

6:- Always wear safety glasses when doing any sort of machining, Keep your hair under a hat (if you have any) don't have lose bits of clothing flapping about, ties etc that can catch in the set up.

7:- Keep your hands or any part of your body well clear of moving parts.

When working out your best set up don't be afraid to break it down and start again, it may take two, three or even more atemps, take your time and get it right,  The safest set up is always the best set up.

And Have fun
 :wave:
Cheers

Stew


Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on January 07, 2009, 05:18:18 AM
I would just like to add, I was in no way criticising Stew's setup, which was a nice rigid and safe affair. In fact it gave me a good pointer, must make me some of those cast lead weights, I always use clamping irons for balancing out, and the faceplate can soon become a bit crowded.

Up until fairly recent times, when mills started to come down in price and model engineers now have access to them, most of the work was done using faceplate setups similar to what Stew is showing, and was an acceptable method of machining.

The problem arises now, is that the techniques have generally slipped into the realms of forgotten about, and really, should you wish to try this method (and it is a good means of achieving what you want if you don't have milling machine access), then read up about the methods as much as possible beforehand, just so that you don't fall into any nasty habits by doing it by trial and error, that is when something nasty could go wrong.

I normally supply links for you to read, but couldn't find anything decent in the short time I looked. Even Rog's great link

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=594.msg2719#new

only had one paragraph on faceplates. So really you need to do a bit of homework first, before trying out this method of holding.

I am not trying to be a safety 'nanny', just trying to warn everyone that there are a few holes that you could easily fall into.

John

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Bernd on January 07, 2009, 09:42:52 AM
All good suggestions gentlemen.

I'd like to add that a scrafical plate between the faceplate and work with holes drilled in the proper place for clamps can help at times. That way you don't need three hands to hold the part, tighten the clamp and hold the nut on the end of the clamp.

Also when it gets to the point of being very crowded with tooling the best bet would be to mount everything in a horizontal position. In other words take the faceplate off the machine. Place on a bench and mount the work and clamps. Ofcourse if it's to heavy this then will not be an option.

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: SPiN Racing on January 07, 2009, 06:59:06 PM
Very very cool machine!!!

Im reading this watching all the progress, and cant help but be astounded by the work of people who made the real thing in the last couple hundred years.. with Huge stinking chunks of iron, to make the beautiful monsters they were.

I live in FLorida as you all my know.. and we dont have very much steam powered anything. BUT... when I was little in Ohio, around 5 or 6.. I remember seeing a steam show my parents took me to. This was likely around 1970 or 71.
The machines there were astonishing. Giant.. GIANT steam tractors with huge bands of steel with steel spokes, and steel spikes for the wheels. SOme had double wheels front and rear.. some had single. Many of the larger ones looked like some cross breed of trains and tractors. Many were cloth belt driven things, with all sorts of spinning wheels and gear reductions I would assume.

I also rode in a few steam trains when little, and still to this day cherish it.

Very cool critter you are making there. Cant wait towatch the progress as she comes together.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Bernd on January 07, 2009, 07:17:42 PM
Spin,

What your talking about are called traction engines. They were the prelude to the gas or diesel driven tractors of today. They were made on machines just like the home model builder has except they are/were a number of times bigger. They did the same thing, remove metal were needed. Just do a google on "traction engines" (with the quotes). You should see about 2 down videos showing these monsters in action.

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: SPiN Racing on January 07, 2009, 08:09:54 PM
That is exactly the ones I was thinking of.

I have spent some time looking them over.. and thats what they were.

Amazing to a kid.. and now STILL amazing.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on January 08, 2009, 12:31:12 AM
It is also amazing that they made them without the high tech machinery we have nowadays.

Heat and hammers were their main tools, with very rudimentary machining facilities.

They were craftsmen in those days.

Bogs
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Bernd on January 08, 2009, 09:11:44 AM
Can believe it was done without 3D cad?  :offtopic:   :lol:

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 08, 2009, 03:20:09 PM
A book writen by LBSC   :bow: published in the 1930íis  on the building of a 3 1/2 inch gauge model of a contractors shunting Engine TICH, (I bought my copy from ebay) a model that has introduced many people to the hobby. In it old Curley describes one method of cutting the steam ports in a cylinder,  I quote from the book:-


ď To cut the ports by hand, drill a row of holes down each marked out steam port with a 5/64 in drill, and 7/64 in, for the exhaust port. Then make a couple of weeny (small) chisels, one from ľ silver-steel, and one from 3/32 in. Just file to shape, harden and temper, and give each a rub on an oilstone. With these, a light hammer, a bit of Ďícommon savvyĒ and a bench vice, you will find it easy enough to chip each row of holes into a rectangular port.Ē

It just goes to show you donít need high tech solutions to a problem,

Just Common Savvy.

I guess out of necesity or Great Grandfathers had lots of it.

 :D

back on topic for the next posting

Stew :wave:

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 08, 2009, 03:51:18 PM
Steam Chest Cover

The steam chest cover was supplied as a phosphor bronze casting with an integral chucking piece so that it could be machined in the lathe. With my casting I found that when the skin was machined off it had deep blow holes right on the edge where clamp holes would be drilled, it was scrap !!!!. I donít find Reeves casting very good quality particularly when you consider what they charge.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0962.jpg)

Option 1:- Send it back to Reeves and get a replacement, this would cost me the postage.

Option 2:- Get a piece of 1/8 brass plate and make the cover from this. Take the casting to the next Midlands Model Engineering Exhibition where Mr Reeves will have a stand, and have a bit of an eye ball to eye ball with him.  :wack:

I settled for option 2

As it turned out this was faar easyer than machining up the casting all that was required was to square it up drill and tap the hole in the midle for the exhoust pipe, stick it on the steam chest with two way type (thanks Ralph) and drill the clamping holes:- Job Done  :thumbup:

Pistons

The pistons are manufactured from S303 free machining grade Stainless Steel bar. The bar was set up in the three jaw chuck and for both pistons the diameter roughed out to within 1mm of finished size. The packing grooves were finished turned and the 7/32*40 drilled and tapped, and both pistons parted off.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0884.jpg)
 

The piston rods are manufactured from 7/32 Diameter S303 Stainless Steel. It was set up in a three jaw and threaded 7/32*40 with a die, and the rods parted of to length. The rods were screwed tightly on the pistons with high strength loctite and the end of the thread slightly peaned over to securely fix the piston. The pistons needs to be finished off to size on the rods with the rod running dead true, this can be done in a four jaw with the rod clocked up true, or in a collet not having a 7/32 collet a brass split bush was turned up so that the rod could be held in a 3/8 collet. The piston was carefully turned up to be a nice sliding fit in the cylinder, and the pistons marked up with a letter stamps L and R.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0937.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0961.jpg)










Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on January 08, 2009, 04:13:13 PM
Nice looking pistons and plate there Stew  :thumbup:


The use of double sided tape was passed to me by John (Bog's) Who no doubt learned of ot through other channels... anyway you look at it the more of us nkow about it the more will benefit  :)


Not too sure about this action  :wack:  with that plate Stew.... You may find yourself detained at HM's pleasure!!  :lol:

I like this build Stew, never really watched a loco being born before! (seen lots of part way through shots.... but never a blow by blow  :thumbup: )



Looking forward to seeing it come together,


Ralph.


Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 10, 2009, 04:27:54 PM
 :offtopic:

I had a few domestic duties this morning:- changing the straw and emptying the cesspit, and assembling some Scandinavian flat pack furniture, my wife has the sense to keep away when Iím doing this sort of job. Iíve a theory that flat pack furniture was invented by a Swedish Divorce lawyer trying to drum up business, after its introduction I bet divorce/matrimonial homicide and suicide rates went up.

 :lol:     :lol:     :lol:     :lol:     :lol:      :lol:     :lol:     :lol:

Any way back on topic

Slide Valve

The slide Valve is made from a Phosphor Bronze Casting both valves coming from the same casting. After cleaning up the flash and checking it over with a ruler, it was apparent that there was barely enough material for some features to clean up, and some features will not cleaning up at all. The features that wonít clean up are none critical and wonít affect function, Iíll have to take care with the others.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0970.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0977.jpg)   


First job was to set up my machine vice, the fixed jaw was clocked up square and with the casting sitting on a parallel, the surface skimmed up using a fly cutter, it was removed from the vice, the bur was cleaned off, and the other face cleaned up, it just met size.  :thumbup:

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0971.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0974.jpg)


Again the burs were cleaned up and the casting set up in the vice to skim up the edge, but this time it was set level with the top of the jaw using a parallel to site it up, this is a andy alternative when dealing with uneven casting you can even set to a line.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0978.jpg)

My vice was made by a friend who I worked with when I was tool-making, and all faces are dead square and parallel. For the other side it was set on a parallel far enough forward to allow it to be micíd for size.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0982.jpg)


Tip:- Brush for cleaning away swarf  safely: keeping things bur free, keeping swarf away, and tapping the component down onto the parallel is critical to getting things parallel and square.

The fly cutter is home made, one of the first things I made when I got my machine, itís tailored to use discarded TC end mills that Iíve got a good supply of.

This is where clocking up the vice comes into play. Casting was set up on a parallel with an end protruding from the edge of the vice, with a big end mill the end was cleaned up, it was turned round and the other end treated the same. 

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0986.jpg)

With two flat faces and two edges square and two ends square, the next job was to mark out the features, it was clear that the oblong pocket for one of the valves would end up to wide, and that the slots across the top would be too deep, I donít think this will be detrimental, but its just another example of poor castings. When you look at this component it could quite easily be made from a solid chuck of material, and far cheaper.


To machine the slots a ľ and a 1/8 slot drill was used. The machine was set up to pick up the centre of the casting, this was done by finding the edge of the vice jaw using a fag (cigarette) paper with a 6mm dia set piece advanced until it just grabbed the paper against a parallel, remove the parallel and advance the table Ĺ the total of the 6mm plus the casting width.



 The casting was set back up on a parallel and the ľ slot drill taken all the way along the casting to the required depth. The cross slots are clearance on the slide valve rods are not so critical they were milled to width up-to the marked lines with the 1/8 end mill.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0987.jpg)

The casting was turned over for milling the pocket, the critical feature is the width facing the direction of travel of the valve this only has to be correct for a small depth say 1mm, so there is no harm to have the pocket stepped, I know this is the practice on full size engines. The pocket was carefully milled out, checking the critical feature by mic.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0994.jpg)

Tip for tricky milling like this, always feed into the cutter, and always lock the table, and put a mark on your dials when you reach the end of the cut.

Remove from the vice cut the casting in halve to give the two valves, and set each one up on parallels and mill to thickness.

 (http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0996.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_1003.jpg)

This gave me valves that are dead square and parallel, the surface of the slide valve needs to have a very good finish and to be dead flat on the valve ports to make a steam tight seal, I'll tell you how to do this with my next posting.

Sorry if Iíve been a bit long winded on this part but quite a few of you have asked questions about, making bits like this, so I hope this will help.

 :beer:

Cheers

Stew









Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Darren on January 10, 2009, 05:02:17 PM
Nothing wrong with being long winded,

Another great post with some great pictures, just what we like to see.
As always very informative Stew, keep em coming.... :)
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Bernd on January 10, 2009, 08:52:13 PM
Excellent pics and write up of doing the slide valve. Much better than I did on the coke bottle thread.

I'm going to have to redo mine from a solid piece. I'm not happy with how it came out. Oh well. ::)

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: SPiN Racing on January 11, 2009, 02:45:25 PM
Very nice!

Love seeing these threads.


Scott
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 11, 2009, 02:50:28 PM
Hi Bernd

The slide valve set up is quite tolerant to variation, what you've got will probibly work fine, so I'd think twice about making from new, I'd try it fist.   :thumbup:

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Brass_Machine on January 12, 2009, 10:24:36 PM
Stew is rocking this thing out! Nice job   :borg: :dremel:

Like Spin said, I love these threads.

Excellent pics and write up of doing the slide valve. Much better than I did on the coke bottle thread.

I'm going to have to redo mine from a solid piece. I'm not happy with how it came out. Oh well. ::)

Bernd

You will Bernd...   :headbang:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 17, 2009, 04:00:52 PM
Hi Chaps next instalment

Up to now my postings have covered work done over the past 18 months, this posting bring you up to date. The cylinder is more or less finished, I wont fit it between the frame until I've completed the motion works so that it goes in the correct position. Also the front covers need machining to take the slide bars, but again i'll wait until the motion works are complete, it being easyer to make the covers fit the slide valve than the slide valve fit the cover.

OK lets do it

Front and Back Covers

The covers and made from phosphor bronze casting, the stuffing gland being integral with the front covers, the casting come with a chucking piece.

The casting was set up in the three jaw, and the chucking piece diameter and the face skimmed up. Gripping by the chucking piece the outside diameter was turned up and the small stepped diameter turned to a nice snug fit in the cylinder.

The chucking piece was cut off, and to grip the cover a split bush was turned up.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0927.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0924.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0921.jpg)

The covers were stamped L and R.
The front covers were set up on the rotary table and the lozenge shape stuffing gland machined.


(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_0904.jpg)

The position for the clamping holes were carefully measured and marked out, taking care not to drill into the steam ways, this is the reason for the uneven spacing, Tip:-  drill with the tapping drill first then when the cylinder has been drilled off the cover open out to clearance size, this way the holes will line up spot on. When I made my Beam Engine I drilled the clamp holes over the steam ways, so I had to hide this by having a dummy bolt, shhh donít tell any one thatís my secret.

 To fit the covers onto the cylinders, they were gripped onto the cylinder and the surplus material marked, and filed off.



It is called for the clamping holes of the front covers to be countersunk. This was done using a little tungsten countersinking tool I bought from an exhibition, on a whim, as they looked handy and the price was right.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_1025.jpg)

To transfer the holes to the cylinder the covers were fixed into position using two way tape, the cylinder drilled through the cover 5mm deep, I held the cylinder by hand on the base of the vice, the jaws were opened up out of the way. The cover removed and the holes carefully tapped 7BA. Whatís the best way to remove the sticky left by the tape, I tried:- Meths, WD40 and Terpintine substitute, which I found the best. (you chaps may use something different)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_1015.jpg)


Finishing off the Slide Valves

Cross bar:- The cross bar is made from 1/4Ē square mild steel. The two were made on one bar. Position marked and the hole centered and then drilled and tapped. Tip:- to ensure that the tap starts square: lightly grip the shank of the tap in the chuck, just enough to keep it square yet allowing it turn.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_1009.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_1010.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_1011.jpg)

For the slide valve to work efficiently the surfaces need to be good and dead flat. To achieve this rub on progressively finer emery paper on a flat surface I use a square cube I rescued from a scrap skip, but a piece of plate glass or mirror will do.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_1028.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_1012.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_1012.jpg)


Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on January 17, 2009, 06:16:43 PM
Looking good Stew  :thumbup:

Accuracy.... That's where it's at..... That's where I need to concentrate!


I would think it woulde be a while before I would attempt such a huge project.... I can barely find the time and patience for the ones I have to do now!!


One question, I've heard the term a few times but never found the time to investigate.... What's a stuffing gland do?



Looking forward to seeing the rest take shape.


Ralph.

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: rleete on January 17, 2009, 08:22:55 PM
A stuffing gland seals the rod so the cylinder can be double acting.  Thing packing like in an old fashioned faucet valve.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 18, 2009, 05:37:27 AM
Hi Ralph Re Stuffing Gland

Simply a stuffing gland is method used to seal a shaft. It consists of a cord impregnated with: Graphite, PTFE, or some form of Wax, the cord is wound around the shaft, you then tighten the Gland nut down onto the cord compressing it and forming the seal.

The cylinder for my loco has four of these glands:- two on the steam chest and one for each cylinder.

Instead of piston rings you can use the cord to seal the pistons, but some people are know using PTFE sealing rings for this job.

The pic hopefull shows this

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_1038.jpg)

Have
 :wave:
fun

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on January 18, 2009, 09:30:35 AM
Ahh!! (enter light bulb smiley here!!) 


I've got it now. Thank you guys  :)


Roger...
Quote
Thing packing like in an old fashioned faucet valve.
 
I'm not old enough to have ever stripped down or possibly even used one of those  :lol:



Still, I have a firm grasp on the concept now  :thumbup:


Looks like that there chest is very near done Stew?



Ralph.

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 18, 2009, 11:44:33 AM
Hi Ralph

Yes Chest more or less done,  :thumbup: just got to make the stuffing nuts for the piston, for that I need to order a 3/8" * 40 ME die, thought I had one but no, still when you've got it you've got it.  :borg:

Have :wave:

fun

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on January 18, 2009, 11:55:07 AM
Got one you can borrow if you want Stew.

John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on January 18, 2009, 02:39:26 PM
Thanks John
 :offtopic:

I'll pop round Tuesday night if thats ok, Jammy donuts on me.  :thumbup:

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on April 29, 2009, 04:33:43 PM
Hi Chaps

Its getting near the time when I'll start on the old loco project again, I think I'm nearly over my bad dose of  :proj:

and I've had a couple of  :poke: from Ralph.

I'm going to set myselve the objective of completing the valve gear for my loco, and hopfully get the it running on air.

The loco uses the Allen straight link valve gear which is an adaptations of the Stephenson and the Gouch system the main advantage of the Allen gear is that it was easyer to manufacture, I'm sounding very knowlegable arn't I but I've just read that in a book, Loco valve gears are a huge subject on their own over 40 systems were in use.

This is the valve gear for my loco and I tried attaching an animation of it but the file was too large so you'll have to Google it yourselve

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/Valvegear.jpg)

So watch this space

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on April 29, 2009, 04:40:08 PM
It's about Bl@#*/y time   :lol: 



Good to see your thinking about this again Stew.... It's just that I want to come see it running in a few weeks..... Waht? That's not likely.....?  I think you'd best get your skates on  :poke: 


Seriously.... a few months then  :thumbup:



Eager to see this beastie take shape Stew.... However long it takes   :thumbup:




.... Seen this?   :nrocks:


you have now  :D




Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on April 29, 2009, 05:23:19 PM
Hi Ralph

You can pop round tomorrow and see the progress so far if you've got time.

where did this come from  :nrocks:

Like it

 :D

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on May 05, 2009, 04:58:15 PM
Choo Choo I'm back on the Loco Project

 :D  :)  :D  :)  :D  :)

 :nrocks:  :ddb:  :nrocks:   :ddb: :nrocks:

First job finish of the eccentric straps by fixing the arms to the straps

The important feature with the assembly is that you get the hole centres on all four exactly the same to do this you have to make an assembly jig.

So first job a crib sheet and crap O cad of the jig.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1590.jpg)

I'm going to use a chunk of ally that I picked up from the scrapy that I've used a number of times for bits of jigs and fixtures so its got a few holes in it already but I can work round these, and a piece of the bar left over when I made the eccentrics and put aside for this job, its a nice fit on the straps.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1609.jpg)

The chunk of ally was squared up with a flycutter

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1610.jpg)

At a suitable distance from one end a 5mm drill was put right through then a 9.5mm drill 10mm deep followed by a 10mm drill, then using the hand wheel dials the table was moved the exact hole centre distance (58.74mm) a 3mm hole was drilled 10mm deep followed by a 1/8 drill.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1619.jpg)

The piece of bar was chucked up true in the lathe and and a short length turned down to 10mm a nice fit in the ally, it was also drilled and tapped through M5 and parted of to a suitable length sorry no pics of this.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1638.jpg)

Some big washers were modified as clamps and that was the jig done.

The eccentric straps are riveted to the arms so the first job was to mark out the position for the holes and drill 1/16 I,m drilling the holes before doing the slots because I'll have more thickness of metel, to drill after they are slotted could result in them bending. To hold the straps for drilling and slotting I used the assembly jig.

Setting the strap square in the jig

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1629.jpg)

Drilling the 1/16 hole

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1623.jpg)Finding the

Finding the edge of the slot with fag paper:- DRO zeroed and head lowered by half the total thickness of the cutter and the strap to bring the cutter on centre.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1624.jpg)

Milling the slot with a 2mm slitting saw

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1628.jpg)

And thats the straps finished.

Next job was to rough out the arms, I decided to do all four arms together I cut out some steel strip and stuck them together with two way sticky tape to make a pack. The pack wa squared up and a 3mm hole drilled through one end and a 3mm dowel loctited in place to keep everything together.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1593.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1600.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1602.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1603.jpg)

Then by twidleing the handles the straps wer roughed out

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1613.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1636.jpg)

Well thats the lot for tonight next job will be silver soldering a block onto the arms so that a fork can be milled into the ends

Have Fun

Stew




Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on May 05, 2009, 08:09:19 PM
Nice workings there Stew :dremel:


I've never had to make such before but may do one day?

The holding jig is a thing worth remembering, that's the kind of stuff that comes in usefull all over the place :thumbup:




Glad your back on the job too  :whip:     :headbang:







Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: SPiN Racing on May 07, 2009, 09:59:51 PM
Very Cool...

For Loco Noobs like me its going to be interesting reading.  Watching the loco threads....  :nrocks:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on May 08, 2009, 12:15:36 PM
Had  a bit of shop time this afternoon so decided to silver solder eccentric arms for the fork.

I seem to have accumulated quite a few way to heat things up.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1640.jpg)

On the left in the red tank is Propane torch I've had this set up for about 12 months and not used it yet, I got it to solder the loco boiler together

Next to this is a small welding system its not an acetaline system, its supposed to be similar, I bought it to braze the frame of my loco but I just couldn't get enough heat into the metal so ended up riveting it together.

Next is a Plumbers butane soldering torch this work well for silver soldering but the blast is a bit fears, it can blow light items about a bit.

At the front is a small pencil torch you charge up with lighter gas, OK for realy small soft soldering bits.

For this job I'm going to use the new propane torch.

First a bit of safety.

You need to be carful with gas cylinders make sure your using the correct regulators etc.
Make sure you havn't any other cylinders, airosols, and combustable items about where your doing the job.
Wear safety glasses in case you gat a splash. Wear Leather gloves.
And put a bend on the end of the solder rod to let you know which is the end to pick it up buy, the other end will be hot.

This is my hearth made up from fire bricks.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1662.jpg)

Preparation of the work piece is important you need to get the faces cleaned back to bare metal and silver solder works by capillary action so I've put four nice deep centre pops on one of the mating faces so that a small gap is formed for the solder to flow into, I,m using easy flow flux and easy flow 55 silver solder. I've also got some pliers and tweezers and a piece of wire to lift, move and poke the hot bits

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1653.jpg)

A liberal dose of flux was dolloped between the bits and a small length solder placed on the joint.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1654.jpg)

The torch was fired up and the flame directed on the thick end of the work away from the solder, the solder will flow towards the heat when it melts, you have to be carful thing don't move, if they do tease them back in place with the wire, you can add a bit more solder by holding the rod on the work if you think it needs it, keep the flame on to get a nice uniform heat to let the solder flow, not too long or you can spoil the solder, let the job cool down for a few minutes then you can quench it in water.

This is the result you can see where the solder is showing all around the edge of the work.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1657.jpg)

I've been having seconds thoughts  :scratch:  about making these arms this way it may have been better to have milled them from solid  :scratch: I've got this far so I'll see how it goes.

Stew









Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on May 11, 2009, 03:54:47 PM
Had an hours shop time today so started on finishing the arms off to shape I'm doing this with the old mark 1 milling machine the trusty hand file.

So that the radi would look ok I made some filing butons these are simply bushes turned to the required diameter, I made one bush as a nut and the other as a bolt, I simply put a screwdriver slot in the bolt to tighten things up,

Griping the button in my refurbished small vice  :)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/000_0027.jpg)

This is how the buttons assembled on the arm

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/000_0028.jpg)

30 minutes work with diferent shaped files and this is what you get.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1716.jpg)

Still needs a bit of tidying up but I'm quite happy with the result and I can see from the cleaned edge that the silver solder has penitrated right across the joint.

Stew



Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: shoey51 on May 12, 2009, 07:24:55 AM
this is a great looking project
well done :thumbup: :headbang:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on May 12, 2009, 11:02:49 AM
They are great Stew,

Sometimes I think we get the blinkers on and think we have to mill everything, we forget we have files and vices! I certainly do!

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on May 12, 2009, 11:42:37 AM
Yes! Yes.... Mill everything!! :ddb:   :headbang:


Oh... Ok, filing has it's place too, I hand shaped the aluminium base plate to my finger engine and often draw file parts to get the shape/finish I want  :thumbup:


Nice looking parts coming there Stew.... Gonna look great when they're finished and in place  :beer:


Now, Did you see that rolling rail for the loco? .... How cool was that!? When you get far enough one of them must be on the cards?
Then you can have it running indoors on the dining table  :ddb:




Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on May 12, 2009, 01:32:54 PM

Now, Did you see that rolling rail for the loco? .... How cool was that!? When you get far enough one of them must be on the cards?
Then you can have it running indoors on the dining table  :ddb:

Ralph.

Yep:- got the bearings safely stashed away for when they are required, also some garage door material for the cradle.   :nrocks:

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on May 12, 2009, 06:50:54 PM
Quote
Yep:- got the bearings safely stashed away for when they are required, also some garage door material for the cradle.    :nrocks:

Stew


Top job  :thumbup:


Looking forward to seeing it    :whip:    :)





Ralph.



Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: SPiN Racing on May 12, 2009, 11:06:37 PM
Very Nice!

Looks like the con-rods will be up to the task for her once she is together.  :headbang:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on May 15, 2009, 03:05:58 PM
Now to finish off the rod, by slotting the fork. I've left this to last as the forks will only be 1/16" and will be very easy to bend, I cut the slot with a 1/8 slot drill gripping the rod in the vice with the fork bit sticking out of the side, found the centre of the fork and milled the slot out, the first was a bit of a disaster I wish I'd made a spare  :bang:. I said they were flimsy well the cutting forces bent the rod, giving a off centre slot. For the next rod I supported the fork with a parallel this one was OK so the rest were dealt with the same way.

The rod on the right has the off centre slot

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1717.jpg)

The set up that worked

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1719.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1720.jpg)

The eccentric strap and rod were assembled using the assembly jig you have to get the hole centres the same or the motion works get constipated and jamb.

Assembled on the jig and one hole drilled for 1/16 rivet

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1721.jpg)

A rivet is put in the hole to stop things moving and the second hole drilled.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1723.jpg)

You have to be carfull to do the assembly in sets as they are left and right handed.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1724.jpg)

I'm going to sleep on it  :scratch:as to remake the the wrongly milled fork. it may be OK

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on May 17, 2009, 05:43:55 AM
Don`t think I have commented on this project before, Stew.

I`ve just re read it, from page 1.....

Very nice to see it all coming together & being shown, (small) warts an all.....  :thumbup:

Blummin well done!  :clap:

David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on May 17, 2009, 05:55:44 AM
Thanks Dave

Spent yesterday with my wife manning a check point at a charity walk in "sunny" Darbyshire checking people in, handing out water choclate bars and dealing with emergencies (fortunaly none), so didn't get my Saturday moring in my shed.

Made up for it today, first job was to clean up the eccentrics and fit them in the loco to see if there was any issues with the dodgey one.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1749.jpg)

By the look and feal of it I think it will be OK so I'll go with it as it is.  :D :D :D  :D

Then did another of those little tool improvements that John infects me with  :proj: that on another link (Small M3 Running Centre)

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on May 17, 2009, 06:01:14 AM

Spent yesterday with my wife manning a check point at a charity walk in "sunny" Darbyshire checking people in, handing out water choclate bars and dealing with emergencies (fortunaly none), so didn't get my Saturday moring in my shed.
Stew

Funny you should say that Stew!

A "Run for Life", at Bakewell, cost me a fiver yesterday.......  ::)

David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on May 17, 2009, 07:00:09 AM
Quote
handing out water choclate bars and dealing with emergencies
Couldn't do that job Stew.... I'd be eating the choccy bars, 1 for you, 1 for me....  :lol:


Back on track (Eh, Eh! ::) )  I think that it looks pretty good from here.... Well it's a darn site better than I'd have done that's for sure  :thumbup:


Looking forward to it running.... How long will that take? A week? what....? more?   :whip:   :)





Ralph.

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on May 17, 2009, 07:06:09 AM

Looking forward to it running.... How long will that take? A week? what....? more?   :whip:   :)

Ralph.


With all the divertions I'm finding on her  :proj:  5 years, but hopfully when I finaly finish work in September about 1 or 2 years, but every now and then I like to do something else, just to give it a rest.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: cedge on May 17, 2009, 05:58:16 PM
Stew
Marvelous work. It isn't made wrong if it fits and runs as needed.....it's modified....(grin). I'm watching your progress even if I'm a little quiet.  :med:

Steve
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on May 18, 2009, 03:26:44 AM
Thanks Steve

This is certainly a long term project, you've just got to break it down into little bits and treat each bit as a project, then one day you wake up and ther's no more bits and you've got a running Loco (with luck). Its quite nice to break off from time to time and do something else, I've got it in mind to build another small engine probably in September when I finaly retire, got a number of ideas, I'm toying with a multiple build, it apeals to my production engineering mind set, but who knows I may see something on here that sends me off in another directions.  :proj:

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: SPiN Racing on May 21, 2009, 05:06:20 AM
Very cool.. glad to see it looks like it went together correctly!!


And easy on the additional projects <WINK> I just ordered a blank arbor and mini center!!!   :doh:

SO yes I will be making a clone of that mini center... hopefully next weekend.. if the UPS people are on track.  :proj:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on May 23, 2009, 12:07:09 PM
Well Madmodders

I've been busey making the motion linkage, this is mainley made from 1/8" hot rolled mild steel plate. The work consisted of cutting the links out drilling the holes rough milling and filing to shape, nothing realy exiciting. The only thing to be carful with is the fact the links come in pairs and the hole centres for each pair of links have to be exactly the same, the easyest way to do this is to mark out and drill the holes in one link, in the other just drill one then fasten the two together with dowel, and drill the rest of the holes, that way they must be the same.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1775.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1776.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1783.jpg)

With the lifting link as well as two holes there is a slot for the lifting block to slide in, this slot was first chain drilled, then milled out with a slot drill, the corners were squared out with a file, for a nice sliding fit on slip gauges, the lifting block was milled to the same size as the slips.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1790.jpg)

The valve link was made out of 1/4" sq mild steel, again they come in a pair with matching hole centres, the holes were drilled using the same procedure.
This is one of those jobs where you have to read the drawing carfully, otherwise you end up putting the holes in the wrong side and cutting bits out where you don't want them to be cut out. Only scrapped one off  :bang:

The slots were cut out witha 1/8" slot drill, the slot having first been chained drilled out with a 7/64" drill.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1805.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1801.jpg)

These are the links the valve link on the right is the scrapper spot the deliberate mistake.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1806.jpg)

And this is how they will fit together with the eccentric link.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1810.jpg)

It's quite enjoyable doing these links only 3 more to do.

Have fun

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: CrewCab on May 23, 2009, 02:35:51 PM
Nicely done Stew  :thumbup:

CC
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on May 24, 2009, 08:36:40 AM
That's all looking very nice and neat Stew  :thumbup:


I was joking about the time limit by the way..... I'll give you 9 months to have a fully running chaisis.... Then the body you can take your time with  :beer:    :)
(Seriously, you just take it as you are.... Nothing wrong with that :thumbup:)



Looking forward to seeing the rest take shape     :ddb:




Ralph.




Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on May 24, 2009, 02:21:13 PM
Thanks CC/ Ralph

Ralph: Its one bit at a time, like Sir Ranalph Fines going up Everest plod plod plod then one day you can't go any higher because your there.   :nrocks:

Have Fun

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on May 25, 2009, 01:37:58 PM
Lifting Block

I decided to make the lifting block out of an old rail spike I picked up on a walk, it sort of appeals to my sence of history.

Her it is with the middle bit cleaned up

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1812.jpg)

First job mark out the holes and cut the block out.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1813.jpg)

Next job mill the block out to size, because my vice is dead square, and using a parallel as a stop, pushing the block hard up against the stop automaticaly brings it square (using the in built acuracy of the tool)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1816.jpg)

Then the holes were drilled I drilled the holes first for two reasons 1:- It will take some meat out for when the slots are milled. 2:- After the slots are milled the ssction will be thin, that could bend if you tried to drill the holes in it.

To get the block square it was first lightly gripped in the jaws then a parallel placed on top and the parallel tapped with a lead hammer bringing the block level with the jaws.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1819.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1818.jpg)

To mill the slots again the squareness of the vice was used to set the block square. The slots were first chain drilled out 7mm deep then the slot cut out using an 1/8" slot drill to a depth of 8mm.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1821.jpg)

The final job was to mill out the angles and file the rads using filling buttons

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1822.jpg)

Her it is finished

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1828.jpg)

And this is where it will fit.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1829.jpg)

Thats it a bit of Railway History built into my Loco

Cheers

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on May 25, 2009, 01:57:18 PM
Wonderful bit of work Stew.

It is not the shape of material that you look at, but the shape that is inside the material that counts.

Use anything you can get your hands on.

John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on May 26, 2009, 02:24:43 AM
Nicely done Stew!  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Darren on May 26, 2009, 11:08:35 AM
You are making a wonderful job of this Stew, that part looked complicated, well to me it did  :ddb:

Great thread, following with even greater interest. Nice to see you are showing how to tackle each part  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 03, 2009, 04:19:09 PM
Thanks for the encouragement Chaps

Now for the last bit of the valve linkage the Rocker Arms this is the bit that will move the valve rod in and out.

The arms has a left right bend in it and is fabricated up from 4 bits that are silver soldered together.

These are the bits

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1854.jpg)

The bends were done in the vice with a wolop from a trusty hammer (when I nod my head hit it  :hammer:) in order to form the bends packing pieces were used.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1856.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1858.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1859.jpg)

The bits were soldered together and the arm griped in the chuck by the sacrificial stub, it was centre drilled followed by a 1/4 drill.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1860.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1863.jpg)

You have to be carfull you don't tangle with the whirling arms.

The sacrificial stub is cut off.

The rest of the required holes drilled, the top one is a slot that is done with a file, and the finished shaped filed out and cleaned up.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1870.jpg)

Thats it job done the rocker with the longer arm also doubles as the drive to the lubricator.

And this is where it fits.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1872.jpg)

I've still got to case harden the links don't let me forget that  :poke:

Stew





 
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: kvom on June 03, 2009, 09:59:27 PM
Nice work!
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: SPiN Racing on June 04, 2009, 02:39:33 AM
Very Nice Stew!


Sacrificial part..... ahhhhhhhhhhhhh  :thumbup:  (we need a smiley with a lightbulb over its head)

Very smurt. I never thought of that... I may have to pirate that idea!


Looking really nice though... very intricate.. Reminds me of the Marklin train I had/have as a kid. I gather its worth a goodly sum nowadays. I took it in to get serviced 15 or 20 years ago to a bug moodel train place.. and they were all ga ga over it. Its HO scale.. but has super detailed mechanisms, all to scale I gather...   I need to dig it out I think.  Seeing you make these driveline mechanisms is really fascinating to me, cause I never really gave the operation of the individual arms much thought. Really cool!!
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on June 04, 2009, 03:19:25 AM
Real nice work Stew.

Isn't it good when things start coming together and it begins to look nice and complicated?

I see you are going to case harden a few things. Are you applying it locally as it looks like you might run into trouble with your silver soldering if you want to take the whole part up to cherry red.


John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 04, 2009, 03:36:39 AM
Hi John

The eccentric links that are silver soldered just hold the pins in place so are not subject to wear so they won't be case hardened.

The rocker arms are different kettle of fish though they will be subject to wear, reading old Curley's words and music recommends mild steel and silver solder, no mention of case hardening so he may have just gone with mild steel  :scratch:. I've got a little set of gas bottles that I can get a fine flame with so I'm going to try and localy case harden the arms, if it doesn't work out I'll just have to make new from a chunk of gauge plate, I know a man who's got some  :lol: and I'm far more confident with my mill now I know could mill one out from solid with it.

Stew

PS is your swivel chair still missing a wheel only I aquired some the other day.

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on June 04, 2009, 05:10:35 AM
That is quite a collection of fiddley little bits Stew! They are looking great, you've just made all the bits that scare / put me off projects! Well done, how far off is a trial run on air then?

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 04, 2009, 05:31:06 AM
Hi Nick

I recon I'm at least two months away from an air run, progress will speed up though as I'm finishing work (retiring) end of July  :D :D :D :D :D

The little bits are nothing to be afraid of the main thing is to get the hole centres the same and thats easy enough if you drill one first then drill the second off the first, the rest is just filing work with buttons and hand eye co-ordination.

The parts that were fabricated in hindsite could be made better from solid, I was guided from good old Curlie's words and music, and that is the way he did it, but he was writing in an age when small milling machine were as scares as Rocking horse s***t, today most people have them so I recon that would be a better way to go, I'm half tempted to remake those bits from solid but I'll see how it goes first.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Darren on June 04, 2009, 05:56:11 AM


I recon I'm at least two months away from an air run,
Stew

Looking forward to that day Stew, hope you can do a video cos I recon all those moving parts would be memerising  :nrocks:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 04, 2009, 05:59:38 AM


I recon I'm at least two months away from an air run,
Stew

Looking forward to that day Stew, hope you can do a video cos I recon all those moving parts would be memerising  :nrocks:

I thought I was Dave  :scratch:


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Darren on June 04, 2009, 06:00:42 AM
Indeed sometimes you are...... :)
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on June 04, 2009, 06:59:18 AM
As you know Stew, if you need it, just ask. I can only say one of two things. :thumbup:

There are no problems locally case hardening, I do it myself, to very good effect, I was just asking if you had taken the solder joints into consideration, don't want you to lose all that good work. :poke: :bang:

The swivel chair has now been replaced with a new one, and the old one is outside waiting to die, even a new wheel won't resurrect it. :(


John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 04, 2009, 07:02:38 AM

The swivel chair has now been replaced with a new one, and the old one is outside waiting to die, even a new wheel won't resurrect it. :(

John

Can't you recycle it into an engine  :D 

Now ther's a chalenge for you  :proj:

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on June 04, 2009, 08:20:56 AM


I recon I'm at least two months away from an air run,
Stew

Looking forward to that day Stew, hope you can do a video cos I recon all those moving parts would be memerising  :nrocks:

I thought I was Dave  :scratch:


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stew

Isn`t that me?
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 04, 2009, 08:30:37 AM


I recon I'm at least two months away from an air run,
Stew

Looking forward to that day Stew, hope you can do a video cos I recon all those moving parts would be memerising  :nrocks:

I thought I was Dave  :scratch:


 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Stew

Isn`t that me?

Dave

I think we should wear name badges when we're on line, to avoid confusion  :scratch:.

 :wack:  :lol:  :wack:  :lol:

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Darren on June 04, 2009, 08:46:10 AM
OK guys, I'll try harder in future....

Just names and faces have never been my thing. I can talk to a shop owner on a regular basis for years. Bump into them in another town whilst out shopping and they say hi.
I have to ask the missus who they are  :doh:

It's a real solid mental blank with me.....never understood why... :scratch:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on June 04, 2009, 10:04:31 AM
Stew,

Congratulations on retiring!  :beer: If I can take early retirement at 61 (will probably lose a lot of pension) I only have 32 years to go!  :doh: :doh: :bang:  :(
Maybe I should just  :zap: only joking of course!

The only problem with Stew's engine is, all those parts are hidden away inside the frames, so when it's built together, you can't see any of the moving parts except the conrods and wheels!  :lol:

I know what you mean about making from the solid, but I definitely wouldn't make them again, you've done a great job on them.

Nick

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: CrewCab on June 04, 2009, 05:18:15 PM
Stew,
Great thread, really entertaining, great pics and we're all (well, most of us) learning something  :thumbup: your making the intricate parts look waaaaayyyyyy too easy  :clap:

Keep up the good work, and the posts

CC

PS: ............ what's a "filing button"  ............... I think I can sort of imagine and I tried a quick google, but that only seemed to find obscure computer and office related links  :scratch: ............ just curious.

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 05, 2009, 02:26:53 AM

PS: ............ what's a "filing button"  ............... I think I can sort of imagine and I tried a quick google, but that only seemed to find obscure computer and office related links  :scratch: ............ just curious.



Thanks Chaps


CC

A filing button is just a sacrificial guide that you work up to with a file to get nice neat rads, you just turn them up to the required size out of any scrap material and fasten them on like a nut and bolt.

Her's one in use on the mill, you just mill down until your just about kissing it, and your down to size.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1822.jpg)


Nick

I'm retiring after 45 years with the same company I started with RO when I was 15, In this day and age I don't think there will be many people staying with the same company for as long, also as you know final salary pensions are now a thing of the past, I count myself very lucky to be retiring at 60 with a good pension and good health (touch wood)

Have fun

Stew


Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on June 05, 2009, 04:36:47 AM
Stew,

It's well deserved. I'm paying into a final salary scheme at the moment but have my doubts about how long that'll last! It's a great company to work for though and hopefully I will be able to do the same.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 05, 2009, 10:43:39 AM
Stew,

It's well deserved. I'm paying into a final salary scheme at the moment but have my doubts about how long that'll last! It's a great company to work for though and hopefully I will be able to do the same.

Nick

Nick

They've had one bite out of the cake, I lost out a little bit with that and I know younger guys like you lost out a lot, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't come back for a bigger bite.

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 05, 2009, 02:21:07 PM
Well thats the valve linkage done, with the exception of the case hardening, I,m running a bit short of the powder so I've just ordered a kg off Chronus goodness knows when it will get to me with their delivery record.

So making a start on the reversing mechanism, this works by winding a handle in the cab which changes the relationships of the valve linkage. Because of the linkage, winding the handle clockwise would put the loco in reverse, this is counter intuitive so to put it right the drawing calls for a 3/16 BSW left hand thread:-  BSW is a course thread so you don't have to give a lot of turns of the handle.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1890.jpg)

I got them from Tracey Tools http://www.tracytools.com/

The first bit is the activiating block, and I'm making it out of that old rail spike.

Square the material up and bring it to size 1/2" * 1/2" * 3/8"

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1874.jpg)

And again as its one of those square jobs where its easy to get features in the wrong place, mark it out.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1877.jpg)

Then mill out the first slot with a 1/8" slot drill, flip it round making shure the orientation is right and mill the second slot 3/16"

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1889.jpg)

Then drill No 26 tapping size for 3/16 Whit

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1891.jpg)

Then tap 3/16 BSW left hand:- now her's a funny thing I knew it was a left hand tap and I kept telling myselve it was left hand, so guess which way I tried tapping it

Correct right hand  :doh: it realy is strange how the mind works:- well my mind anyway. Who decided that threads were to be right hand in the first place, it just seems so natural to have right hand threads is it something in humane nature  :scratch:.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1892.jpg)

Now for a bit on filing buttons, this block has a rad on one corner, to do this nice and neat I made a 5/16 dia button. I make them out of mild steel as I need them, it only takes 1/2 hr, and depending on their condition when I've finished with them I often throw them away, you can use them three or four times before they become US, they can be made out of silver steel which you can harden, but catching the hardend button with your file will take the edge off the file.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1901.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1902.jpg)

This is how its used.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1905.jpg)

And this is the completed job with the button.

That was a nice interesting bit to make.

Have fun

Stew



Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: CrewCab on June 05, 2009, 05:31:53 PM
A filing button is just a sacrificial guide that you work up to with a file to get nice neat rads,

Did I say I had an idea what they were  :thumbup: .................... I was completely wrong  :lol: .................. assumption, the mother of all "mistakes"  ::)

Thanks Stew, excellent tip  :headbang:

CC
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 06, 2009, 07:48:45 AM
Now her's an intersting little chalenge the Reversing Shaft

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/Reversingscrew.jpg)

You can see from the drawing that its a bit on the spindly side, with these sort of components its always worth it to try and understand the function of each feature, the two 1/8 dia at each end of the thread have to be concentric with the thread as these are bearings that keep things lined up the Square and the 9ba thread keep the handle on the shaft so its not so important thet they are concentric, in other word they can be turned as a second op, also with this typ of component the operation sequence is important.

So first job is put a small centre in the end of the bar, and then supporting it with my nice little running centre  ::) turn up the 3/16 dia by 2" length (don't forget to allow for the removale of the centre hole in the length.) Tip you need a good sharp tool for this type of work HSS is ideal.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1908.jpg)

Then turn down the 1/8 dia for the longer length (where the square is to go)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1914.jpg)

Cut the left hand thread with the die

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1910.jpg)

Turn the 1/8 dia at the other end and part off


(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1912.jpg)


Then make a 1/8 brass split  bush.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1919.jpg)

Then griping by the split bush turn it down to 3mm for the square  (I went away from drawing for this bit)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1922.jpg)

Then turn down for 8BA and run the die down it (no pic)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1923.jpg)

To file the square I used the bush to grip in the vice to get one flat, then with this flat up against one edge of the vice it alowed me to file the other sides square (hand eye cordination) I left a bit of meat on the square to alow a bit of fudge factor to fit to the handle when I make it

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1927.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1931.jpg)

I made two in case I had a scrapper.

I'll post a pic of the finished shaft when my camera recharges.

But its job done

I do like jobs like that  :D :D :D :D

Have fun

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on June 06, 2009, 10:39:14 AM
That`s marvellous!

You`ve got a LOT more patience than me, Mate.......  :bow:

(Not Stew)
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 06, 2009, 11:08:07 AM
Thanks Not Stew

Her's a pic of the completed Shaft with a spare

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/ReversingRod.jpg)

Not Dave
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: CrewCab on June 06, 2009, 04:31:07 PM
Not Dave  ::)

Cracking write up and good pics, thanks for takin the time to share it with us, I suspect posting the thread took longer than making the part though   :thumbup:

atb

CC
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 07, 2009, 01:41:33 AM
Thanks C C

The write ups don't take too long, I just let the pics tell the story, the hardest bit is trying to remember to take the pic  :bang: . If I had to do a wordy write up it would take me an age, writing and spelling is not my strong point.

Have fun

Stew


Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 07, 2009, 02:46:53 PM
Started on the Reversing Frame today.

The frames made from 1/8" hot rolled mild stel plate, cut the frame out to shape with hacksaw, mill and file, and made the two little bushes, one of the bushes is threaded 7/32 * 40 ME, into which the bearing bush proper screws, its this design so you can assemble the screw and the block,

This is how it goes together.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1940.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1942.jpg)

A shalow 1/8" slot was milled into the bush to locate the frame and the whole lot silver soldered together.

This is how I held it to do the soldering the 1/8" dia rod kept things lined up. You have to be carfull not to over do the solder or it runs into areas you don't want it  :doh:  .  Thats not an easy thing for me as I tend to be a bit generous with the old solder.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1943.jpg)

But it worked out OK, things came apart and assembled together fine after the shonet was cleaned off.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1944.jpg)

Also made a start on the lever again this was a saw, file, mill job. The end has a 3/16" rad end, but with no holes to fix a button, so I tried gluing the button on with supper glue, it stayed in place long enough for me to file the rad out. :smart:

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1946.jpg)

when its finished I'll show a pic of the assembly.

Cheers

Have Fun

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on June 07, 2009, 04:31:03 PM
Stew,

your last few installments have made me realise just how much can be done with sawing and filing! I tend to forget about hand tools these days, I'm always looking for a way of doing things on a machine but a lot of the time, as you've proven, it's not necessary. However, I've never really been that good with hand tools, I guess I haven't really been brought up with them like the 'old school' and people that have served apprenticeships etc. I would probably need a fair bit of practice!

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Darren on June 07, 2009, 06:49:00 PM
Stew,

your last few installments have made me realise just how much can be done with sawing and filing!
Nick

Quite..!!

I have to say I seriously doubt I could achieve your finish with a file Stew  :thumbup:

Really nice work there  :clap:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: shoey51 on June 08, 2009, 03:12:27 AM
Ive just read this from the beginning what a great tutorial for us beginners :D
will be watching this thread :D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 08, 2009, 03:24:17 AM
Thanks for you comments and engouragement chaps

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 12, 2009, 03:35:14 PM
Ok Chaps

Got the case hardening powder, to case harden the links from Chronos, this is it.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1952.jpg)

For thos of you who don't know about case hardening what its about is soaking the mild steel parts in a carbon rich environment at about 900 to 1000 deg C, what happens is some off the carbon soaks into the skin of the steel so you get a hard skin on it, this process has been used for a over a 100 years so its not new.

Just one word of warning some of the old case hardening powders had cyanide in them and other nasties so only use stuff that is new and you know is ok.

This is what you do.

I wired the bits up so it was easy to pick the bits up with pliers.

Made up hearth so that it formed a little cave so that it would get good and hot.

Before you start to get things hot make sure you got no inflamables about you don't want to set your self on fire  :zap:

With a gas torch  heat them up to a nice orangy red its better to do this in natural light so you can se the colour.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1948.jpg)

When you've got each bit up to temperature cover them in the powder a leave them to cool.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1950.jpg)

When cool take them out of the powder and heat them up to orange again and hold at this temp for about five minutes to burn more of the carbon in, then quench in water.

Her we are job done

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1953.jpg)

At this point sods law struck whilst I was taking the wire off and cleaning one of the links up the darn thing sprung out of my hands and landed some where in the shop, I looked and looked and couldn't find it.

At this point I went and got the boss with a torch, she's a fan of CSI, how come Grisome and Nick Taylor can find a pin head of blood that catches the baddy and we can't find a bloody loco link.

At this point I was P****d off, the boss said that the only way to find it was to stop looking for it, sound advice I thought, so I started to make a vice stop, it still didn't turn up, tonight had another look for it,

Boss said is it in this bucket with all the metal shavings,

No that too far away,

 I'll have a look any way she said, ho is this is  :doh:
 
:D :D :D :D :D :D

Well alls well that end well.

Have fun

Stew



Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on June 12, 2009, 05:24:53 PM
Sounds like you've been having fun Stew   :lol:   

Always look where there is the most metal to cut your hands.... That's where it always lands!!!


Looking good.... U sure you won't have it finished in a few months? ..... Looks like your storming ahead  :thumbup:



Don't know if I've said this already but just in case... Thank you for the hammers  :thumbup: 
Not that I've had chance to use them yet!! First time in the shop for weeks and I was re-soldering the water feature light!!  :doh:


Anyway, won't be long now.... Got one of the diff's for my mates landy tonight (off a scrap one!) and the other is coming next week..... just a few more nights taken up and stopping workshop progress! ..... Not that that's anything to do with a loco build  :scratch:   :)




Won't be long to the running chasis now eh?   :D





Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 12, 2009, 05:35:00 PM
Hi Ralph

I was wondering where you'd got to, John said this was a busy time of year for you  :hammer:,

Thanks for the loan of the mould for the hammers, and the tube for the handles is just great  :thumbup:.

When I've completed the loco reverser I need to make a handle for it I can either buy a casting or make from bar, I'm making from bar, so I need to get some kit made for my RT, so the loco will be put on the back burner for a week or so.

Have fun and don't work too hard.

Stew



Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 13, 2009, 04:26:38 AM
 :offtopic:

Ok this is a bit off topic but a few post back I said I was making a vice stop, well its finished I based the design on Johns excellent thread her http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1007.0

So this is my attempt

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Vice%20stop/100_1958.jpg)

Yet another job ticked off that will improve my little shop  :nrocks:

Have fun

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on June 13, 2009, 04:37:36 AM
Very nice indeed Stew.

Are you living in that shop or what?

It looks like you have got some sort of production line going, banging out bits all over the place.

John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 13, 2009, 04:49:00 AM
Thanks John

What I'm finding it that as I add to my tooling, bits get "easyer" and quicker to make.

And I also find that I notice and learn a lot from my visits to you.  :bow:


Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 13, 2009, 11:41:44 AM
Hi Chaps

Finished off the reversing frame this afternoon. It was just a matter of turning up and riveting a pin to the frame and a final bit of fitting.

This is the frame with the arm to the left

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1960.jpg)

And to the right

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_1962.jpg)

The toolmakers clamp is just there to give a bit of purchase to the screw.

It just needs a bit of cleaning up not to much bling mind as its to be painted Blackberry Black

I've got a chose with the handle buy a small casting or make from bar stock, I'm going to make from bar stock its just like making a small fly wheel and whilst I'm at it I'll make the rest of the handles needed, but before that I've got to do a bit of work on my Rotary Table.

Off to a pop concert in the forest tonight

Rock on Modders  :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:  :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks:

Have fun

Stew


Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 20, 2009, 10:58:47 AM
Now that I've got my RT sorted I'll make the winding handle for the reversing gear.

First job turn up a blank 25mm dia by 5 mm thick, trapand a the front face, same as for the small handles, centre drill and drill 2.5mm

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2023.jpg)

Remove chuck and job off the lathe and mount on RT, centre RT an the quail axis simply by having it lose put a centre in quil wind it down onto the job and let it pull RT central tighten RT zero X and Y axis. Job Done

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2029.jpg)

Off set the X and Y the correct amount then nice and steady and methodicaly drill the corner holes 2mm.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2025.jpg)

Then with a 1/16 burr take out the meat to form the spokes.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2031.jpg)

Mount the chuck back on the lathe, give it a bit of a polish, and part it off

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2036.jpg)

Clean the spokes up with a file, make a handle and silver solder it to the wheel.

Thats it the reversing gear completed.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2041.jpg)

I'm going to start on the other end now the cross head and the slide bar and the motion frame

Have fun

Stew
 
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on June 20, 2009, 11:30:27 AM
You're really enjoying that swapability between the lathe and RT aren't your Stew?

Now you know why I had been meaning to do it for ages.

Lovely bit of work there, no holding you back now.

John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 20, 2009, 12:56:43 PM
Hi John

It really makes set up quick and easy  :D its the best way to go if you're going to do a lot of RT work.

Stew having fun




Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Bernd on June 20, 2009, 03:14:23 PM
Nice job Stew.

I really like that small hand wheel, looks nice.  :thumbup:

Now you got me thinking about a mod like your rotary table too. Marked on my "round-tuit" list.  :nrocks:

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 20, 2009, 03:16:49 PM

Now you got me thinking about a mod like your rotary table too. Marked on my "round-tuit" list.  :nrocks:

Bernd

Its nice to know I'm infecting some of you Guys with  :proj:
 
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Have fun

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 21, 2009, 12:10:15 PM
Made the motion frame today, its fabricated from mild steal 3/16*5/16 section.

This is how it will be frabricated the screws are there just to keep things in place whilst it silver soldered together.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2042.jpg)

First job cut to length +2mm for cleaning up, square one end up then bring the other end to size.

To drill the holes for the screws, I used my parrallel stop to get things square and to keep holes in the corect position to each other.

Drill the short length for threading  8BA.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2046.jpg)

Drill the long length clearance on 8BA

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2043.jpg)

I didn't deburr the holes so that the parts would screw up and leave a small gap for the solder to penitrate.

Silver solder and clean up, that it job done.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2049.jpg)

And this is where it will fit between the loco frame

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2052.jpg)

Have fun

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: shoey51 on June 21, 2009, 03:10:32 PM
great work there Stew :D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: SPiN Racing on June 23, 2009, 01:27:34 AM
Coming along real nice Stew!
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 26, 2009, 02:30:02 PM
Made some more bits this week:- the lever and the mounting brackets for the lifting block, and the couplings for the valve rods.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2066.jpg)

The lever and bracket are similar to other bits I've made so I wont go into any detail, but the coupling were a nice interesting little job, the instructions call for them to be made from 1/4" square bar, but I thought it would be easyer to make them from round bar and mill them square, this is easy if you've got a mill.

To work out the start diameter you use Mr Pythogoros's theorem, then its just a mater of turning the diameter to size with a length long enough to make the two couplings:- turn a 1/4" diameter step in one end and drill and tap 5/32*40 ME turn, part it off, turn it round and do the same to the other end.

Then sit it on a parallel in your mill vice, touch down on the top with the cutter, and mill off 1/2 the difference between the diameter an 1/4" zero your dial/DRO, flip it over 90 deg and mill another flat to the same zero, so what you've got is two flat at 90 deg, flip it over 90 deg and take off the  other halve of the difference, zero thing up, flip it over another 90 deg, mill down to the zero, and youre left with a nice bit os square bar.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2057.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2060.jpg)

Next ops are to drill the cross hole and mill out the fork, this is where the mill stop comes into play.

Set the mill on the Y centre line of the square bar, put the job in the vice put a parallel on the top of it and tap it level with the top of the vice, set it up in the correct Y position, adjust the stop so that its, touching the job, centre drill then drill 1/8" take the first one out of the vice, set the second up against the stop drill that the same, take it out flip it over 90 deg adjust the Y position and again drill it 1/8", repeat for the other one this time you leave it set up change the drill for a 1/8" slot drill and mill out the fork, take the job out put the other one in again up against the stop and mill that one out.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2064.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2065.jpg)

Thats it Job done the mill only needed setting up the once and both parts came out exactly the same.

To finish off file a 1/8 rad with a filing button and give it a bit of a debur and a clean.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2067.jpg)

And this is where they go

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2074.jpg)

I do enjoy doing little jobs like that  :D :D :D :D :D

I've only 4 or 5 bits to make before I'm ready to start assembling the valve gear to the loco, and try getting it running on air, fingers crossed.

Have fun

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Bernd on June 26, 2009, 03:01:06 PM
Very nicely done Stew.

That piston/valve unit looks like a nice tight little package for a steam engine.

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Darren on June 26, 2009, 03:07:18 PM
Nicely shown there Stew, result looks perfect.

I'll be refering back to this post later  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Brass_Machine on June 26, 2009, 03:23:36 PM
Wow... that is looking pretty good there Stew!   :clap:

Eric
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on June 26, 2009, 03:57:36 PM
Tidy bit of work there Stew.... Do I smell a little video in the near future?  :ddb:




Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 26, 2009, 03:59:38 PM
Tidy bit of work there Stew.... Do I smell a little video in the near future?  :ddb:

Ralph.

As long as it runs  :lol:

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: shoey51 on June 27, 2009, 12:45:21 AM
wow Stew that is looking lovely cant wait to see it running :D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on June 27, 2009, 02:02:50 AM
Great job there Stew!  :clap:

But, looking at the pic with your 6"rule, I wondered how many part finished items I would have hiding around the workshop floor.......  :scratch:

Fiddly diddley parts, teamed with fumbly fingers. Not a good combination......  :doh:

Blummin well done mate!  :thumbup:

David D

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on June 27, 2009, 02:55:27 AM
Stew,

After your visit yesterday and your explanation of what you have been getting up to, and now seeing the results, is showing me that you are enjoying yourself just a little bit too much. :wack:

My suggestion would be to do a bit of manual hacksawing thru a 6" bar of cast steel, that just might knock that damned smile off your face. :lol:

Lovely work as usual.

Bogs
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on June 27, 2009, 04:13:21 AM

My suggestion would be to do a bit of manual hacksawing thru a 6" bar of cast steel, that just might knock that damned smile off your face. :lol:


Bogs

Why would I do that when I know a man with a powered haxsaw   :lol:

Thanks for your kind comments gents much appreciated.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on July 04, 2009, 07:14:46 AM
Been busey this week fitting the slide bars to the cylinder.

I was unable to spend as much time as I hoped what with work demands and my old Dad strugling with the heat, and needing a little bit more looking after than normal.

Any way this is what I've been up to.

Cut the cylinder head studs off to length using Johns tip of putting two washers under the nut, cutting the stud off to this, cleaning the cut end off, and removing one washer, this leaves all the studs standing out all the same length, all very neat, the cylinder heads at the other end are held down with 7BA countersunk sloted screws a bit more easy to deal with, but still very fiddly.

I also made the slide bars from 1/8" thick gauge plate, quite a simple little job, sorry no pics.

The next job was one that's been troubling me for some time:- the slide bars are held onto the end of the cylinder heads with 7BA screws, for this the covers have a 3/4" across the width flats, that need to be concentric with the centre line of the cylinder.

When you read old Curley's instruction: he makes this sound deceptivly simple, he basicaly recomends making up what is in effect a filing button, 3/4" wide that you centre up on the bores and file the flat working to this, describing the fit as a nice slide. This is where I have problems what's one mans nice slide fit is anothers tight fit, its very dificult describing touch fits to another person, in industry we get around this by very well specified limits, fits and tolerances, but in a home maching environment you can't do this, it very much depends on the individuals skill and experience.

To make this even worse there is no easy datum to work off, so I decided that I would have to create my own Datum.

I fixed the cylinder complete with pistons and covers in my vice, and with my height gauge did some carfull measuring.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2080.jpg)

I then did some calculation and work out a setting height that I made up with slip gauges  (I convert the answer to imperial as my slips are imperial so don't be confused)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2081.jpg)

I then brought the cutter down  (no power) to touch on this pile of slip and zeroed the DRO.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2084.jpg)

I then milled the flats on one side down to the DRO zero:- flipped the cylinder over repeated the measurements and calculation for this side and machined down to the zero.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2085.jpg)

I was very pleased with the result the flat was 0.756:-  .006 big but I can compensate for this with the mating part but I still don't know if its simetrical arround the centre line, to do this I need to fit the slide bars.

Drilling the tapping size for 7BA  this was done on the centre line of the cylinder picked up from the piston rod.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2086.jpg)

Tapping 7BA on tapping stand nice a square

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2088.jpg)

Now fitting the slide bars I was able to check symetry by measuring the gap each side between the piston rod and the bar, it was within 0.003"

 :nrocks: :nrocks:

 :D :D :D :D

I think I can live with that

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2094.jpg)

This is the slide bars with the motion frame which they will be fastend to eventualy with a 3/4" slip gauge which moves up and down the gap lovely.

Next job is the cross head (big end) I'm going to try and do this using the RT so it should prove interesting.

Cheers

 :beer:

Stew



Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on July 04, 2009, 12:43:36 PM
My Boss because of the hot weather hasn't slept too well, beging very restless, this in turn has agrivated her bad back, as a consequence she's spent the best part of today resting, so that I don't disturb her I've spent a fair bit of time in the shop:- well thats my excuse any way  :lol:

So got a fair bit done on the cross head.

This it

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/Crosshead.jpg)

In the build instructions Curly calls for it to be made from mild steel section, machined in the lathe four jaw and the vertical milling slide. Most of Curley's designs were done between 1920 to 1960, so he was writing for a very different bunch of medel engineers than today, they'd give their right arm for some of the kit we've got. So it seemed OK to me, to take advantage of some of my kit and try to make it, to my way of thinking  :scratch: , a more accurate and easyer method:- so what I'm going to do is use the Rotary Table.

Starting off with a bit of 30mm diameter mild steel bar, turn it down to a diameter eaqual to the hypotenuse (Mr Pythagorus again) with a groove to give datum points for each Cross head.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2096.jpg)

Drill full length roughing drill I'll finish drill when I've done with the milling

Transfer the bar in the chuck over too the RT set up Horizontaly in the mill.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2099.jpg)

Note use of centre support.

Check for squareness sideways

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2100.jpg)

Check the other way, Note stylus on DTI you can do this on this type

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2101.jpg)

Rough mill out one side (1/2 mm from size)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2103.jpg)


I'll drill and mill the cross holes whilst it still got plenty of meat on the underside.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2104.jpg)

Slot drill out the 12mm steped holes:- my little mill grumbled at this but it copped.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2106.jpg)

Check on depth with home made depth gauge as I couldn't get in with the vernier.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2105.jpg)

So thats it for know so far so good we'll see how the rest goes another time.


 :beer:

Stew





Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Darren on July 04, 2009, 01:16:26 PM
Stew you are really motoring on with this aren't you..looks like a very "engineered" bit of work there.
As always following with keen interest..... :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on July 04, 2009, 02:05:13 PM
Stew you are really motoring on with this aren't you..looks like a very "engineered" bit of work there.
As always following with keen interest..... :thumbup:

Me too!
Just like what he said.......  :wave:

I was going to say "professional".  :thumbup:


David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on July 04, 2009, 04:49:20 PM
Careful with the compliments lads, he has only got a narrow doorway on his shop, and we don't want him getting stuck. :lol:

Very nice work BTW Stew, I bet you are praying for bad back trouble again tomorrow.

Every time I tried to start something over the last couple of weeks, all I get is a demented German asking where are we going today. I think the wife has used up every route to Morrison's supermarket, and I think he will catch up sometime soon and realise she is taking him to the same place every day.

Use any excuse you can to get in your shop, as once you retire Stew, she will have jobs backed up for you to do while she is still at work. :poke:

Bogs

BTW, parting was perfect, many thanks.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on July 04, 2009, 04:58:47 PM


BTW, parting was perfect, many thanks.

As the immortal bard said "parting is such sweet sorry"  he'd obviously not tried sandvik 

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Ho the wit of the man

Ok I'm going

Stew


Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: shoey51 on July 04, 2009, 05:42:02 PM
Great work Stew  :bow: :bow:
 I am watching this thread with keen interest as it is giving we ideas on how to use my machines to the best of my abilities.
Ive had a bit of a setback with my build :(
cheers Graham
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on July 05, 2009, 03:42:07 AM
Great work Stew  :bow: :bow:
 I am watching this thread with keen interest as it is giving we ideas on how to use my machines to the best of my abilities.
Ive had a bit of a setback with my build :(
cheers Graham

You`ve had a setback Graham? Are you sure?  :scratch:

I wouldn`t call 7 1/4" gauge a setback.......  More of a slight diversion.  :thumbup:

Ooops!  :doh:       Me an me big gob........   ::)

Sorry Graham........  :lol:

David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on July 05, 2009, 03:47:52 AM
Thanks Chaps

Bin up early and in this shop this morning.

Finished the cross holes in the second head but this time I took a bit of the load off the mill by putting a smaller slot drill down before the finisher.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2107.jpg)

Then indexed the RT round 180 deg to do the other side, at this point I nearly had a disaster when the mill started to cut different depths it seemed to have a mind of its own then I spotted that the winding handle was catching the centre steady, so just took the handle off problem solved.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2109.jpg)

With the finish cut I indexed round to the first side took a light cut, indexed round to second side and took the same cut off, keeping things nice and symetrical.

Then Indexed 90 deg to mill the thin edge to correct width not so much to come off with this, again indexing round with the same cut to keep thing symetrical.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2108.jpg)

At this point I came up against a stopper I need a 3/16" slot drill or end mill I've got 5mm, 4mm, 4.5mm but no 3/16"  :doh:

if I'd have known I could have adjusted the width of the slide bars to suite a 5 mm end mill, I must learn to check that I've got the correct tools to finish the job.

John do you have a 3/16 slot or end mill I could borrow.

Cheers

Stew
 
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on July 05, 2009, 04:00:51 AM
Great work Stew  :bow: :bow:
 I am watching this thread with keen interest as it is giving we ideas on how to use my machines to the best of my abilities.
Ive had a bit of a setback with my build :(
cheers Graham

The thing with set backs Graham is you've just got to bounce back from them, we've all got big scrap boxes, it some time pays to put the job aside and get on with something else and have a good think where it went wrong, then pick it up and start again, the second time round it just clicks, and its completed in no time with no drama. Thats part off the fun in this game bouncing back

  :D


7 1/4 " What's that all about then  :poke:

Have fun and good luck

Stew


Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: shoey51 on July 05, 2009, 05:35:34 AM
Stew thanks for your advice mate will take it on board
and David is right there is a slight diversion I bought a loco at a price I couldnt resist. the loco runs on 7 1/4 gauge track but it wont stop me finishing my loco project :D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on July 05, 2009, 05:40:03 AM
I know I have what you want Stew, call round anytime and we will have a root, still not sorted all my cutters out yet.

I was hoping to get them done today, except for you know who.


John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on July 05, 2009, 06:16:07 AM
Stew thanks for your advice mate will take it on board
and David is right there is a slight diversion I bought a loco at a price I couldnt resist. the loco runs on 7 1/4 gauge track but it wont stop me finishing my loco project :D

Its a pleasure Graham, its nice to know it helps other people with their projects when you post your work.

That loco sounds real interesting most gauges in the UK are either 2 1/2" - 3 1/2" or 5" but the larger gauges are now starting to get very popular I know of a couple of 7 1/4" tracks that have opened up near us.

A pic of the loco would be nice  :worthless:


Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: shoey51 on July 05, 2009, 08:06:49 AM
Im picking the loco up next weekend so no pictures till then Im afraid
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Brass_Machine on July 05, 2009, 11:47:55 AM
Stew...

As always, nice work so far. Feels like I am there watching this build go on.   :ddb:

Eric
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on July 07, 2009, 12:15:02 PM
With the loan of the 3/16" slot drill from John I've been able to finish off the cross head so this is how it went.

To avoid the milling holder crashing into the chuck I had to extend the cutter out from the holder I've got a selection of holders suitable for unthreaded cutters (FC3 type) so I used one of these:- ther's one in this picture.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2111.jpg)

It was a matter of taking a cut along the cross heads, rotating 180 taking the same cut and measuring the width across the slide bars until I got it to 1"

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2113.jpg)

I got it to within .005" and called it a day.

Next the chuck was removed from the RT with the work still held in it and remounted on the lathe.

The through hole was finished off to size, and the small boss turned, and then they were parted off from the bar.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2116.jpg)

I then made up a soft filing button to act like a nut and bolt and the two cross heads bolted together back to back.

Drilled right through both 1/8".

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2122.jpg)

Milled out some of the meat.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2123.jpg)

Then filed the rest out till it looked OK. Her they are with the button.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2130.jpg)

And separated

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2132.jpg)

Then the pin was turned up out of silver steel

And this is how it all fits together

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Valve%20Gear/100_2136.jpg)

I was really pleased how using the RT to make the cross head turned out, when I fitting them to the slide bar in the cylinder the piston rod should line up with the through hole in the cross head I was expecting to have to do a bit of fitting and packing, and  :hammer: but no they lined up perfectly.

 :D :D :D :D :D
 
Have fun

Stew


Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: shoey51 on July 07, 2009, 03:06:08 PM
wow Stew that was great work there mate :clap:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Darren on July 07, 2009, 03:07:24 PM
Stew, I can see that I'm going to have to take a trip to yours just to see this when it's finished... :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on July 07, 2009, 04:05:26 PM
Thanks Chaps

I've just done a bite of a stock take on bits to make before I start assembling to the frame and its zero,

I've not been looking forward to this:- I'm getting to the point when the chickens come home to roost.
 
:zap:

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on July 07, 2009, 05:14:38 PM
Nice slick machining there Stew, you've certainly got the swapping over between machines sorted now.

Never be afraid to go forwards, I am sure that when it is all fitted to the frame, things will go smoothly, and you will wonder what all the worrying was about.

Even if it doesn't go to plan, I am sure a man of you calibre will soon have it sorted.

John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on July 08, 2009, 08:19:21 AM
That looks great Stew, those parts are far too complex for me. Just catching up after been off for 2 weeks moving house etc. Still no internet at home yet, was disgusted to find it'll take the ISP 17 days to flick a couple of switches and send out the odd letter!

Good luck with the assembly.

I don't think I'll be active in the workshop for a while, it almost brings me to  :( it's a double garage and used to be a show house so it's plastered out and has a radiator in it, however, the problem is i can't get into it as everything is just dumped whilst "priorities" lie with the house and garden apparantly!

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on July 08, 2009, 08:39:44 AM
Hi Nick

I was wondering where you were, sent you a work email but it went to Mike of the same name  :doh:  I must have done it before as he asked me how I was doing with my new mill  :lol:

I wanted to ask how the cross head pin in your loco was assembled  :scratch:  I've followed the drawing but some how it doesn't seem quite right.

Sounds like you've got the makings of a nice shop when you've got the tribe settled in.

Have fun

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on July 13, 2009, 03:31:46 AM
Im picking the loco up next weekend so no pictures till then Im afraid

Er..... Graham?  :wave:

Graham!!  :wack:

Don`t you think these good people have waited long enough, to see what I`ve seen?  :poke:

Perhapse, not on Stew`s posting though........   :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on July 13, 2009, 05:55:34 AM
Stew,  :lol: quite funny that Mike remembered what the conversation was about!

I will try to have a look for you tonight. Mabel is one of the few things I can get to, I put it on the floor on some laminate flooring underlay for my 3 year old son to play with while I tear old shelves down and the like! He won't leave it alone, he's been sat on the tender, losing bits etc. (luckily found them now) - I keep telling him we just need to tidy the garage , fix the loco then it'll work .. he just says "we will tidy the garage now daddy"!

Anyway, looks like Mabel is the first job when the garage is sorted now. I'm going to completely strip it down as none of the chassis is painted.

Will try to check the cross head pin tonight although I'm not sure I'll be able to see much will it come out without taking loads of other bits and pieces off first?

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: kvom on July 13, 2009, 08:20:04 AM
Quote
I'm getting to the point when the chickens come home to roost.
I know just that feeling as that's where I am with my build.   :thumbup:  No worries!  Looks great!  :beer:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: shoey51 on July 13, 2009, 03:40:25 PM
Im picking the loco up next weekend so no pictures till then Im afraid

Er..... Graham?  :wave:

Graham!!  :wack:

Don`t you think these good people have waited long enough, to see what I`ve seen?  :poke:

Perhapse, not on Stew`s posting though........   :thumbup:

David D

Here you go David and for any one else thats interested :D

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1447.0#new
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on July 28, 2009, 12:11:20 PM
Well I've bitten the bullet and a few days ago I started assembling the valve gear.

Its quite a fiddly little job with lots of small fasteners to do and undo, and its one of those jobs you just can't rush.

Any way first thing I did was to strip the wheels off the frame.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2195.jpg)

Ther's lots of little bits you have to carfuly put away and label.

When doing thes jobs you realy apreciate the assembly frame, that allows you to turn the loco through 360 deg, so you can move it about to gain access to bits, the one I'm using I made myselve, I'd seen a number of frames in use and I just came up with a design that suited the bits I'd got, I used some ally angle, box section, some 10mm studding, and bit of steel and wood and cap screws.

This is a close up of one of the pillars.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2196.jpg)

One problem from not using a casting for the cylinders was that the square section fouled the leading wheel horn block, to get round this I just milled a chamfer on the cylinders. Note the use of a ball race ring used as a parallel.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2198.jpg)

The cylinders are positioned 1" from the buffer beam and 5/16" from the top of the frame, it was carfully put in position and a big clamp put over the frame whilts the clamping hole positions were spotted through the fram with a hand drill. The cylinder was then transfered to the mill and the holes drilled in the side of the cylinder taking care not to drill through into the bore.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2199.jpg)

To keep them nice and square the holes were tapped 5 BA using the stand. Note the valves port faces are protected with masking tape.


(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2202.jpg)  

The motion frame was assembled using the same technique (no pics forgot)

This is the asembly so far next job the valve linkage.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2213.jpg)

Having fun

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on July 28, 2009, 12:44:37 PM
Looking good Stew..... Glad you're taking the time to explain a few of the bits  :thumbup:


 :nrocks:







Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on July 28, 2009, 12:55:02 PM
Stew,
That`s looking very complicated!

You might be having fun...... I`m holding me breath!  ::)

Hope it keeps on developing successfully for you......  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: zeusrekning on July 28, 2009, 04:49:53 PM
WOW man, Now this is a deep project. I just scanned all the pics, but this is definitely on my must read list.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: shoey51 on July 28, 2009, 04:53:54 PM
Stew that is great progress so far  :thumbup: :clap:
I have slowed on my O gauge will have to get on with it again soon
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: John Hill on July 28, 2009, 04:57:41 PM
Oh dear!  Stew you make me feel so inadequate! :lol:

It seems in the time I have spent on my little engine you have built half a locomotive! :thumbup:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on July 29, 2009, 01:43:16 PM
Looks like it's going well Stew. It's amazing to think that this thing will be puffing around merrily pulling a few passengers!
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on August 01, 2009, 05:21:24 PM
Well I've spent a fiddly couple of days trying to assemble the linkage into the loco frame its a bit like knitting steel.

The drawings a write are are a bit fague as to how to fit it together it just say use BA fixing, all the holes are 1/8 so I used M3 threads as I have a supply of self loc M3 nuts, but as I started to get thing together I realised there wasn't enough room to fit nuts, all the pivot pins would have to loctited in place, a job I will leave untill last.

This is the assembly from the top

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2214.jpg)

And from below

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2215.jpg)

I tried turning it over by hand but everything loced up, I fiddled about a bit and it still loced up, fidled a bit more still loced.

So went for me tea and a think  :scratch:

I havn't set the timing I think thats the problem and I havn't connected the valves rods so tomorrow that what I'll do and have another go.

wish me luck

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on August 02, 2009, 03:45:49 AM
Stew,
I hate ordinary jigsaw puzzles........  ::)

Here`s wishing you the very best of good luck with yours!  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on August 02, 2009, 03:55:47 AM
If you are still having trouble Stew, a new pair of eyes and hands are available if you need it.

Sometimes you can't see the forest for all the trees.

That is coming along just wonderful.

Bogs
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on August 02, 2009, 06:05:01 AM
Thanks Chaps

John

Thanks for the offer for a second pair of eyes:- I've slept on the problem, the basic action of the linkage seems to be doing what it should. I think the problem comes from two areas:- I haven't set the eccentric timing correct it all over the place, and I haven't connected up the reversing rod I think it needs this to ancore the motion.

I've stripped it down made the gaskets and started to fit the studding for the valve chest, I'll put it all together getting all the pins to the correct length and fix them with loctite, and then see how it goes:- (there should be a finger cross smiley for times like this)

I may be calling on you if I'm still in trouble.

I'm nipping over to Macmodels tomorrow for some more studding is there anything you would like me to pick up for you.

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on August 02, 2009, 06:21:35 AM
Nothing needed Stew, I have everything for the project I am on now.

Thanks anyway.

John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: CrewCab on August 02, 2009, 09:06:41 AM
That is looking impressive Stew, good luck but I'm sure you'll sort it ..................... we're all watching and waiting with fingers crossed for you  :thumbup:

CC
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Bernd on August 02, 2009, 12:24:46 PM
Sure looks like a tight fit with all those parts in there.

Would like to see that in motion. Nice work Stew. :thumbup:

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on August 03, 2009, 04:59:45 AM
Well this has been a good and bad day

Made the gaskets for the cylinders using the gasket material John gave me:- thanks John

This is the gasket for one of the cylinder covers

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2216.jpg)

Then spent some time fixing the studding to hold the valve chest in place but ran out of 6BA studding  :bang: Ok so I've got to go to Macmoddels today to get some along with some other bits a pieces. When I told the Boss I was planning on going to Macclesfield she said:- " ho ther's a good furniture shop in Macclesfield I'll come with you and we can look for new sofa and chairs"

 ££££££££££££ Translation $$$$$$$$$$$


Dam Dam Dam,

Any way assembled all the linkage sorting out the pins etc, quite happy with the results and fairly confident that it will work.

As you can't see it very well when its inbetween the frames this is it.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2219.jpg)

Then desaster I placed it up against the cylinder to see how it lined up with the valve rods.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2221.jpg)

Spot the deliberate mistake:-

I've off set the arms 1/8" too much.   :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: don't know how I did this probably measured from the wrong point.

So option for putting it right 1:- Re bend them 2:- Re make.

I think I go for option 2 it wont take too long and I was not too happy with result from bending the crank method, I think I'll fabricate them up using a different method.

My scrap collection is growing

Still having fun

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on August 03, 2009, 06:10:37 AM
What's the fun in having everything fitting perfectly every time Stew?

It is little things like that which remind us all that we are only human.

John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: 28ten on August 03, 2009, 02:08:00 PM
I'v just read right through this, really good stuff. I like the way you have made the crossheads, I think it would translate to a smaller scale, so if i get some milling capability I will try it.
I am intrigued at the way you fitted the hornblocks and them made the rods to fit. In small scale the accepted method is to make the rods first and to use them as a jig for setting the hornblocks.
Anyway good stuff, I wish i had the ability to do something similar myself
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on August 03, 2009, 03:19:22 PM

I am intrigued at the way you fitted the hornblocks and them made the rods to fit. In small scale the accepted method is to make the rods first and to use them as a jig for setting the hornblocks.


Thanks for your encouragement Chaps

Hi 28ten

By rods I take it you mean bearing blocks.

I just followed the recommended way from books for fitting the hornblocks and bearings for this scale, the critical feature is getting everything square and in line, in smaller scales this must be as equally important, but I guess the smaller size allows you to use different methods.

I was really pleased how that method for making the cross head worked out, everything fitted together without any fettling, I just thought it would be a better method to those recommended in books so I tried it: a lot of the literature on building locos dates from the 1960 - 70, so I think it was written around what kit was available in the average workshop then, we've moved on since then.

Thanks again for you input

Have fun

Stew

 
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on August 05, 2009, 05:39:31 PM
Well done Stew,

That is looking mighty complex!  :smart:

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on August 07, 2009, 04:20:14 PM
I thought I'd give a bit of an update on the remake of the rocker arms, as I'll be short on shop time for the next week.  :(,

I originally toyed with the idea of making the rockers out of one piece instead of fabricating them, for the remake I went for the one piece option. The most suitable material I had in my stash was from a garage door (thanks Ralph  :thumbup:)

First job cut a chunk out with an hacksaw:- cutting on the forward stroke helped along with a bit of oil.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2223.jpg)

After half an hour and a sore arm this is what I got

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2224.jpg)

Roughed to size in the mill :- Bloody tough stuff Ralph blunted two cutters  :hammer:

Note crib sheet to help keep things on track.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2228.jpg)

A bit of milling and drilling and filing and job complete. Note the difference with the first attempt made to drawing the second attempt may look different but all the critical features are correct and fit for purpose.

Any one who,s worked in a design office will tell you one of the most important things is to recognise the functions and importance of each feature:- Critical to function, Safety critical, Critical to appearance, Minor to function, Minor to appearance etc etc

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2243.jpg)

I seemed to have spent an age assembling and unassembling things the cylinder is held together with 60, 6 ba and
 7 ba screws and washers, I've been busy with not a lot to show for my activity, any way I've packed the pistons and glands with PTFE packing and assembled the cylinder into the frame so that I can measure up for the reversing linkage which will be the last thing to fit before I set the timing and give it a try. As for setting the timing I've no idea how to do it I'm going do a bit of reading about it first and then have a go.

This is the assembly so far

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2244.jpg)

Have fun

Stew



Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Darren on August 07, 2009, 07:03:46 PM
You know something Stew...

Your arms didn't look that big to me....all this sawing and filing we should be calling you Popeye......(http://deephousepage.com/smilies/muscles.gif)


maybe I'm just lazy....(http://deephousepage.com/smilies/greenchainsaw.gif)


Very nice work, as usual...... :clap:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on August 10, 2009, 02:07:57 PM
Nice Job Stew  :thumbup:


Them there black arms are mighty strong stuff alright, they are what I used to make my ball turners tool posts from  :)


They are a very nice shape and would appear to me to have the benefit of a wider bearing section to spread the load, thus helping to reduce wear, I think  :scratch:
(with a good helping of oil etc obviously)


Really looking forward to the running tests  :D





Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on August 19, 2009, 12:31:34 PM
Setting the valve timing

 :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

I guess that just about says it.

I've been trying to set the timing for nearly two weeks now, along the way I've put few things right:- catching pins: Valve chest drawing error that lost me 1/8" of throw: Reversing arm slipping: Eccentrics slipping, etc etc etc, but I just can't seem to get it right, I've read and re read the build manual tried putting a different interpretation on what it mean by forward dead centre and back dead centre:- checked things: eccentric throw, length of arms, action of reverser etc etc, but I just can't to get working or get things to stay put, one minute thing turn over nice then it jams up and throws thing out.

I'm sitting writing this with a can of draft GUINESS  :beer: to drown my sorrows.  :(

Decided to put it to one side for a few days, and then go back to stage one strip it down and carefully build it up again checking everything out.

Down but not beaten

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on August 19, 2009, 02:36:06 PM
Ooohhh....... Stew.....

I really feel for you........

Dunno what to say......  :scratch:

Chin up mate. You`ll sort it......  :smart:

David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Bernd on August 19, 2009, 03:05:47 PM
Will it help if I have a beer too?  :D

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: shoey51 on August 19, 2009, 03:18:51 PM
Will it help if I have a beer too?  :D

Bernd

and me too :D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on August 19, 2009, 03:41:34 PM
Stew,

Pressure is off a bit for now, so if you need a bit of assistance, I am only a few minutes away, but you will have to make sure I can fit in your shop first.


Bogs
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on August 19, 2009, 04:01:21 PM
Thanks chaps

More beer  :beer: the better:- it can't do any arm.
 
:beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer: :beer:


Thanks for the offer John I nearly gave you a ring this afternoon, I was starting to confuse myself  :scratch:, I thought I understood how it worked but I've doubts now. I'll give you a call next week sometime I can always stick it in the back of the car and bring it round.

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: 28ten on August 19, 2009, 04:08:35 PM
I feel your pain, although I have never had to get valve gear to work as in perform it's function, I have fitted full inside gear in my small models, best thing is to take a break, work on something else and start from the beginning when you feel calm and mentally ready for it.
it is a great sense of achievement when it all works though. this might inspire you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=498lQ3gOzS8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=498lQ3gOzS8&feature=related) it's not mine, but I have done several like it.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Darren on August 19, 2009, 04:13:08 PM
I always wondered where the engine was on a train.....call me slow...but most people look at the boilers and say doesn't that look nice.....

Feel for ya Stew, you'll get there...you have to....
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on August 19, 2009, 04:47:01 PM
Quote
but you will have to make sure I can fit in your shop first.
   :lol:  You got about as much chance as me John.... You won't be able to stand up!!  :lol:

The shop really is built for Stew  :thumbup:



Sounds like it's a lot of fun Stew.... I have never tried to work a steam engine timing out but it can't be too different from internal combustion can it?
Forward/rear as top/bottom dead centre etc..... maybe you could find some mad interweb graffix to show a cutaway of an engine running to help get your head around it?

Or I suppose you could just ask Bogs?   :thumbup: 



Don't do too much of the demon drink Stew.... You'll never make it up for work tomorrow! .... Oh! Never mind. As you were  :beer:




Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: CrewCab on August 19, 2009, 04:58:48 PM
Just to do my part to help, I've opened a can of beer as well  :beer:

I'd agree Stew, have a break and come back to it in a day or two, in the meantime you'll probably have a "Eureka" moment and all will become clear, here's hoping anyway.

CC
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on August 19, 2009, 05:09:19 PM
I feel your pain, although I have never had to get valve gear to work as in perform it's function, I have fitted full inside gear in my small models, best thing is to take a break, work on something else and start from the beginning when you feel calm and mentally ready for it.
it is a great sense of achievement when it all works though. this might inspire you http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=498lQ3gOzS8&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=498lQ3gOzS8&feature=related) it's not mine, but I have done several like it.

That wot I want it to do, thanks for posting.

Thanks for you encouragement Chaps, I'm going to give it a rest until next week.

Wot's work Ralph  :scratch: thats a four letter word ------------------------------ isn't that what I use to do before I retired.

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Have fun

Stew


Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on August 19, 2009, 05:12:18 PM
Is this any help????




http://www.animatedengines.com/locomotive.shtml




I'm trying (yer I know the punch line!!  ::)  )




Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on August 19, 2009, 06:20:41 PM
Stew,

I've done this many years ago but will have to do it again! Not to put to blunt a point on it, it's a right pain in the arse with inside cylinders and valve gear!

Do you have LBSC's notes from model engineer. I borrowed all the copies I needed from our club a while back and am looking at them now ... it's all coming back to me!

As he says, for this engine the eccentrics lag the cranks by 90 degrees. This is because of that motion shaft with the rockers. They reverse the motion of the eccentric rods so when the rod is travelling forward to front of engine, the valve is travelling backwards.

So, first thing to do is set the eccentrics as near as you can to the diagram by eye:

Set the crank so you have the right hand crank at forward dead centre.

The eccentric sheave at the far right of the crank (no 1) is for forward motion for the right hand cylinder set that to it's extreme upward position.

The next sheave (no 2) is for the reverse motion of the right hand cylinder, so set this 180 degrees away from the first sheave. That is in it's extreme downward position.

The next sheave (no 3) is for the reverse motion of the left hand cylinder. Set this to its extreme forward position Ö towards front of loco.

The last (far left, no 4) sheave is for the forward motion of the left hand cylinder, set this to the extreme rear position, 180 degrees apart from the previous sheave.

This has achieved the starting point.

If this is actually possible, tighten the setscrews in sheaves 4, 3 and 2 (all but far right one) just enough to prevent accidental movement and put on the straps.
Nip no 1 set screw so you can still move the sheave but it will stay where you place it.

Take off the steam chest cover but put 4 of the screws back in to maintain steam chestís correct location.

With the right hand crank at forward dead centre, pull up the half of the eccentric strap attached to its rod tight up against the sheave and have a look at the valve.

Make sure the reverser is in full forward position and a hairline crack should be appearing between the edge of the valve and the front inlet port on the right hand cylinder.

Whilst holding the eccentric strap tight up against the sheave still with one hand, apply light pressure to the front face of the valve (i.e pushing it towards rear of loco) to see if the hairline crack appears.

If it isnít there, you need to wind the sheave on very slightly (clockwise if looking from the right hand frame of the engine) and reapeat the above test until it does.

If the crack is already too large, wind the sheave back very slighly (anti clockwise if looking from the right hand frame) and repeat the test until the crack is a hairline one.

Once you have achieved this hairline crack with the crank at forwad dead centre, lock up the setscrew.

Now hold the half eccentric strap against the sheave and turn the wheels over in forward direction until the crank is on back dead centre (piston has moved to extreme rear of cylinder).

Have a look at the valve whilst still holding the eccentric strap against its sheave. It should have moved forwards.

Again, apply light finger pressure to the valve, this time to the rear of the valve pushing towards the front of the loco.

If all is well, the same hair line crack should be appearing on the rear inlet port now.

If it does, bobs your uncle, tighten the set screw up as much as well as you can and fit the other half of the eccentric strap.

If the back port doesnít show a hair line crack after having successfully adjusted the front one, it means the valve is too long. It can be shortened, but you need to take an equal amount off both ends of the valve to ensure the exhaust cavity remains bang in the middle of the valve. It will only be a minute amount you need to take off.

If you do need to do this, it will enlargen the gap at the front port, but you donít need to re-time it, you just alter the position of the valve slightly on its spindle. Move it forward by the amount you skimmed off that end.

Now check the rear inlet port with the crank at back dead centre and the strap up against itís sheave again. If the hair line crack is present at forward and back dead centre, youíve cracked it. The timing is correct, the strap can be tightened and the other half of the strap replaced.

Now you need to put the reverser to the full reverse position to set the right hand cylinder for backward running!

This is done in the same way,

set the right hand crank to forward dead centre

remove the back half of eccentric strap no 2

Pull the strap and rod up to the sheave and look at the valve whilst applying light finger pressure pushing towards rear of loco.

Check for the hairline crack, if itís not there rotate it slightly anticlockwise this time if looking from right hand frame (wheels will be spinning anti clockwise when in reverse).

Keep repeating until get the hairline crack between valve and front inlet port.

Once achieved, nip the setscrew up, hold the no 2 strap against sheave and rotate the wheels anticlockwise until crank is at back dead centre.

Repeat procedure, have a look at valve whilst keeping strap hard against sheave and applying light finger pressure on valve pushing towards front of loco.

If hairline crack is there, youíre in business. If not, you need to adjust the length of the valve as before.

Once the hairline crack is achieved at both forward dead centre and back dead centre lock up the set screw and refit the other half of strap!

Thatís 1 cylinder down, all you need to do is repeat for the other side!

Remember that eccentric no 3 is the reversing eccentric for the left hand cylinder so treat that the same as number 2 and treat no 4 eccentric the same as the first one.

If you achieve all this the engine will be timed perfectly.

The main problems I had as Iíve said before was locking the eccentrics positively, and itís all so fiddley to get into.

I hope this is of some use when you give it another go. Youíll get there, itís just a very frustrating procedure and it doesnít help that itís so difficult to get at everything.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on August 20, 2009, 01:42:31 AM
Hi Nick

Thanks for this information that is basicaly is what I've been trying to do, but I can't get my head round where you set the valve spindle for when you start is there set distance from the coupling to the valve face ?, or doesn't it matter, from the build notes and your info it doesn't seem to matter as there was no mention of a start point in Curleys notes  :scratch:, you're advice makes better sense  when you said:- "but you donít need to re-time it, you just alter the position of the valve slightly on its spindle".

My other big problem is what you had trouble with and what we've discussed before the sheave slipping on the axle, I've tried 8ba grub screws they don't seam to be up to the job I've tried trade bought slotted grub screws there not up to the job, the best results I've had is from long slotted grub screws I made by turning down some M4 cap screws (tougher material) and grinding a point on the end so that they bite in.

Thanks for your advice Nick much appreciated.

I'll get there eventually:- how can I fail with you Maddmoder Chaps supporting me

 :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks:


Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on August 20, 2009, 03:45:27 AM
Stew,

Good point, I didn't see any notes on that. I think it would matter, as if you had it set too far to one end Thinking about it, a better starting point may be to set your initial position of the eccentrics as near as you can by eye with the right hand crank to forward dead centre, then adjust the valve on it's spindle so that it's bang in the centre, I don't have the drawing here but I think the length of the valve is exactly the same distance from the extreme edges of the front and rear ports? So you should set the valve on its spindle so that you can't see any of the ports. Otherwise as you say, you don't have a decent starting point.

I think that's what's in mine, slotted grub screws. Pretty useless. I think the way you went with the point ground on is probably the only way.

Hope that helps, I remember it's a lot more difficult in practice! It maybe needs 2 heads and pairs of eyes on the job, one might remember something the other doesn't!

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on August 20, 2009, 04:42:07 AM
Stew,

If possible, to set the timing up, your need to be able to see the slide valves in operation and their relationship to the ports and crank position. The eccentrics should be in a fixed position to the crank, and once set, should not be played about with. All timing is done with the slide valve adjusters.

Once you have the basic timing and the engine running, then you tweak on the valve operating rods to get it spot on.

It is very difficult to put into words, but if you have downloaded my piston valve book, the timing is done in the same way and is shown in there.

Once you get the grasp of what needs to be done, then it will be a flat forehead time, as you slap yourself on it for not realising how it should be done.

John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on August 20, 2009, 05:19:54 AM
Stew,

I guess you could do this either way. If doing it Bogs way you will need a method of setting the eccentrics in relation to the cranks. I was just thinking and I think you could do this between centres in the lathe using gravity to let the eccentric fall to it's extreme downward position before locking up. This would only work if the sheaves are a nice sliding fit on the shaft. Obviously you'd need to work out where to position the crank for each eccentric.

For no. 1 (right hand)  you would need the right hand crank at back dead centre, since the eccentric is meant to be extreme upward position at forward dead centre. Let the sheave swing down and tighten.

No 2. you would need the crank at forward dead centre, let the eccentric sheave swing down and tighten.

No. 3. You need the right hand crank to be pointing down (sorry can't remember where the left hand crank sits in relation to the right one). so rotate clockwise 90 degrees looking from right hand end. Let eccentric sheave no 3 swing down and tighten.

No. 4 rotate crank 180 degrees, let sheave 4 swing down and tighten.

If your eccentric sheaves aren't a loose sliding fit, this won't work, there must be a better method. Of course you could set a clock gauge up on each 1 and turn until it reaches it's extreme position.

Once you're happy they are all set in the right positions, you should in theory be able to put the straps on and time it up the way Bogs said again making sure the crank and reverser are in the right positions as per the other instructions but this time moving the valve on it's spindle to attain the hairline crack. I think moving the eccentrics gives you more scope for adjustment though enabling you to optimise the timing both in forward and reverse directions.

Give it a go, it might work better or be more obvious what you are doing. Any method that avoids messing about with those eccentrics must be good!

Nick

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on August 20, 2009, 02:35:29 PM
Hi Chaps

Thanks for your help and advice its sounds like I'm not a hundred miles off, what I've been doing is lining the eccentrics clamp hole up with the holes that take the web pins they are both on the centre line, bringing the crank on forward dead centre, at this point It all goes to cock because I don't understand the function of the slide valve spindle, that and eccentrics slip  :bang:

I'm away fro a few days so I'll give it a go when I get back.

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: CrewCab on August 20, 2009, 02:46:01 PM
Have a good time Stew (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b28/CrewCab53/Smileys/drinkbud.gif)

and you never know, that "Eureka" moment might just creep up on you (http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b28/CrewCab53/Smileys/noidea.gif)

 :beer: CC
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: arnoldb on August 21, 2009, 01:46:00 PM
Stew, this is a great build and ever so well documented!  :clap:  :clap:
Had to read it start-to-finish - quite an eye-opener  :smart:

Have a nice trip  :wave:

Arnold
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on August 29, 2009, 06:28:06 AM
Hi Chaps

I bet you'd thought I'd given up on this, old Stew's not beaten that easily.

Well I did a fair bit of fettling when I got back from being away, sorted out a few areas of binding the main one was from the lifting link hitting the motion frame when it was in the forward position. But still couldn't get it set, I had a few ideas what further fettling was required, but by this time I was losing faith in my own understanding of the system, so took it around to John's for him to have a look at. John patiently explained how to set the valves, I was pleased to here it was how I'd been doing it, John turned things over measured and checked everything seemed to work but things were still fouling on the steam chest, in half an hour John came up with the same fettling ideas  that it had taken me two weeks to figure out.

Johns help was greatly appreciated.

This morning I modified the the steam chest as John suggested but still couldn't get the timing right, but Johns tutorial and watching his methodoligy gave me the confidence that I was going through the correct process, so I started to look at thing afresh.

And found that I've assembled the excentric straps wrong  :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:

they should be:-

Forward strap, Reverse strap, Reverse strap, Forward Strap.

 what I've done is:-
 Forward strap, Reverse strap, Forward strap, Reverse strap,

No wonder I was struggling, the bloody thing was going when it should have been coming and coming when it should have been going:

:hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer: :hammer:

I've got to strip the linkage down and assembly correctly, which is a job for tomorrow, so keep watching this space.

Not yet beaten

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on August 29, 2009, 09:47:24 AM
I often don`t know whether I`m coming or going, been or gone!  ::)

Was that a lightbulb moment Stew? I wish I`d got half your patience......  :wave:

Good luck, again, this time.......  :thumbup:

David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on August 29, 2009, 10:53:40 AM
Sometimes Stew, it is better to put it under the bench for a day or two, then come back to it with a fresh mind, and check everything methodically from start to finish.

I didn't even spot anything wrong in that department, but we only looked at one eccentric anyway, just to see if the timing could be obtained, and of course we found the jamming problem.

I bet that once you have those swapped over, and the hack off mods we talked about, you will have no more troubles in that department, except for the locking system for the eccentrics.

John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on August 29, 2009, 11:40:53 AM
Well done on finding the timing problem Stew! It will be fine now, it is still a silly way of locking the eccentrics though. I wonder if it might be worth drilling and pinning permanently once in the right position. Then any overall timing can be adjusted by moving the valve on its spindle as Bogs suggested?

NIck
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: arnoldb on August 29, 2009, 05:29:49 PM
Quote
I bet you'd thought I'd given up on this, old Stew's not beaten that easily.

What?  :scratch:  :scratch: If you give up, you'll be getting a lot of  :whip:   :lol:

Going great guns Stew  :thumbup: - when it's running, it will be worth so much more , unlike easy come easy go  ::)

 :beer:, Arnold
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on September 01, 2009, 07:55:30 AM
Well next instalemt of this epic

I put the valve linkage right, things were better in that the linkage was moving in a logical way, but still couldn't get the timing correct, when John had a look at it he said he thought that I needed to take a couple of mm off the slide valve.  :hammer:

Before I started on such drastic action I decided to go back to first principles and work the valve sizes out for myself, so looking on my book shelf, found these two books with detail info on slide valve design.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/100_2283.jpg)

They were saying the proportions of the slide valve should be as sketch:-

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Assembly%20Cylinders%20and%20valve%20link/scan0001.jpg)

 I know that these proportions are not set in stone, and there are countless variation on this to meet variouse design criteria, but for me this was a good place to start.

So using these criteria I worked out some sizes for the slide valve and low and behold they said I needed to take 1mm per side off the valve (Johns 2mm  :bow: :bow: :bow:)

Not wanting to jump in with 2 feet and start cutting the valves about, this morning I made a dummy valve out of some brass to these calculated sizes tried it out and it looks like it will work may have to take a little bit more off so I'll give it a go on the dummy to see how it looks.

Fealing hopefull

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on September 01, 2009, 09:07:38 AM
Stew, does this not tie up with the dimensions on the drawings?

I definitely feel confident it will work when this is sorted. It's a comlicated beast!

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on September 01, 2009, 10:42:20 AM
Hi Nick

No it doesn't tie up with the drawing I measured and remeasured everything up and I've made it very close to drawing, I,ve taken an additional 1.1mm per side off the dummy valve, this wasn't quite enough so I've just taken another 0.25mm per side off this is a little too much I think 1.2 mm per side should just about do it.

At this the inlet port opens half way, I was under the impression that it was to open fully but I really can't see how to get it to open fully with this set up, it starts to close at bottom dead centre and it fully closes half way to back dead centre, giving the 75% lead Curly talked about it the write up.

Had a bit of excitement with the excentric tumblers the little slotted grub screws that locks it in position gave up on the job what with all the adjustment I was doing the slot strip I couldn't get it in and I couldn't get it out, so with a hand drill I drilled it out using the tapping drill size, cleaned it out with a tap with all the lead ground off it, worked a treat panic over  :thumbup:

Stubborn and won't be beaten

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on September 01, 2009, 12:05:28 PM
Stubborn and won't be beaten

Stew

By `ek Stew........ Yer not wrong!   :thumbup:

I really admire your tenacity......   :bow:

David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on September 01, 2009, 02:01:30 PM
Stew,

I will take the valve chest cover off mine and measure. Looking at the drawing, it does seem like there is too much meat on the valve though, it calls for X = A + 3/16" but as you say, I don't think those design dimensions you mention below are the whole picture. Surely the overall length has to be some sort of function of the maximum throw of the eccentric as well.

The port should open fully though, you need to be able to set the valves as per those instructions otherwise it will never work as well as it should. Do you have the screw reverser set to full forward or full reverse?

Nick

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on September 01, 2009, 02:18:50 PM
Hi Nick if you could measure yours up it would be a great help.

Just to correct your post X = A + 1/16"

I've measured the valve travel and its about 7/16" I think you lose a bit with the lifting link not keeping a straight line. if you could measure your valve travel that would be useful.

I think I may take the linkage out again tomorrow and measure it up and check if I can get any more travel there may be something catching.

The screw reverser is set fully forward with no more travel available on the lifting link.

Thanks a Lot

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on September 01, 2009, 05:35:59 PM
Stew,

I meant on the drawings for mabel it calls for a valve 15/16" long, and the distance between the extreme of each inlet port is 3/4".

I've just stripped the cover plate off and my valves are exactly 15/16" long as per the drawing. Valve travel is almost blob on 1/2".

With the reverser set fully forward and the right hand piston at TDC (fully forward) the front inlet port is just starting to crack. By the time the crank gets to about 45 degrees after TDC the port is fully open and it stays like that until the crank is at 90 degrees after TDC. At this point it starts to shut, and by about 45 degrees before BDC the front inlet port is shut. Once at BDC the rear inlet port is starting to crack to push the piston back the other way.

I've taken some photographs, will upload them now but I don't think they will have come out too well due to the light conditions.

I realised looking at mine that when I set the timing many moons ago, I didn't have the instructions from model engineer and was chasing myself around in circles too. I managed to get it to run well forwards, but looking at the way I have the eccentrics set, there's no bloomin' wonder I couldn't get it to go in reverse! It also reminded me of those pathetic little grub screws that 'lock' them onto the shaft. How that was ever meant to work I don't know, will need to do something about it for sure, but I forgot how thin the eccentrics were.

Hope this is of some use. Don't skim those valves yet!

TDC
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/NickG24/Mabel/2009-09-0121-45-06_0001.jpg)

TDC again
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/NickG24/Mabel/2009-09-0121-45-29_0003.jpg)

45 deg after TDC
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/NickG24/Mabel/2009-09-0121-45-51_0004.jpg)

90- deg after TDC
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/NickG24/Mabel/2009-09-0121-46-42_0005.jpg)

45 deg before BDC
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/NickG24/Mabel/2009-09-0121-47-37_0006.jpg)

BDC
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/NickG24/Mabel/2009-09-0121-48-12_0007.jpg)

Nick

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on September 02, 2009, 01:47:16 AM
Nick

Thanks for all the trouble you've taken, thats certainly helped me, it would appear that my engine hasn't get enough valve travel, I won't touch the slide valves but check the linkage out again to see why I'm not getting 1/2" of travel.

Also noticed you're engine has oil feed holes on the rockers, drawing didn't call for them so I left them out, but I'll now add them.

Thanks again

Stew

 
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on September 02, 2009, 05:28:40 AM
Stew,

No problem. I'm going to start stripping the engine down now to clean and paint since my son keeps going on about it. I've promised it will be ready for Christmas - maybe a bold claim! When the bits are easier to get at I will take any other pictures / measurements you might need.

if you're getting 7/16" travel I don't understand why your ports don't open fully. Mine probably open around 1/32" past fully open so yours should I think.

I think something is still a miss with the timing some how, puzzling!  :scratch:

Do you have any ideas on what to do with the eccentrics?

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on September 02, 2009, 06:34:16 AM
Hi Nick

Just completly stripped the linkage down and inspected it for signs of fouling and measured it all up:- found that I was a bit short with the slot in the sliding link and the little sliding block was slightly over size so I've corrected this and whilst I was at it for good measure I extended some of the slots so that nothing would stick.

I'll put it all back together tomorrow and see how it goes

Thanks for your help

Stew




Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on September 02, 2009, 06:47:04 AM
It's handy this because you've seen the thing from scratch and I've got the complete thing so we can help each other out!

That is the only thing I could think that would give you more valve throw as well.

There are only 3 things. The offset on the eccentrics, the length of the slot and sliding block in expansion link as you said, and the length of the bottom lever on rocking arms.

I think that should do the trick, it'll be a matter of timing now. Fingers crossed.  :smart: :thumbup:

With regards to putting the oil holes in rocker arms, I presume you can get under the boiler with the oil can, in which case it be a good idea I guess. Will check if you like.

I was looking at the lubricator, I found an old file the other day with some scribbled notes. I don't think it gave enough throw on the lubricator. There isn't much soace for the arm to move on it, from one extreme to the other it only gives 1 click on the ratchet on mine, so maybe it needs a ratchet wheel with more teeth if I can't get it to throw enough. The problem will be if you get too much throw it will foul the frames etc, but not enough will not be enough to turn the wheel!

does your axle pump have a by pass valve anywhere in the plumbing? Mine doesn't but the bore seems tiny so maybe it's assumed it just needs to pump all the time? Seems strange not being able to adjust it though.

Good luck.

Nick

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on September 02, 2009, 06:58:33 AM
Hi Nick

Yes fingers crossed

I spotted that the drawing does call for oil feed in the rockers, with me remaking them I just missed them. To oil the loco I guess the best way would be to make some long get anyware nozzles for you oil can.

I've not made the lubricator yet when I do get round to it I'm going to follow a design from ME thats uses poppet valves and clutch bearing to get away from the ratchet arm design I think this will be less troublesome.

Sorry I havn't built the axle pump yet that's one adventure to come along with the lubrucator.

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on September 03, 2009, 11:30:02 AM

 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

 :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)

Video to follow

Stew


Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on September 03, 2009, 12:34:44 PM
Well persitance payed off:-

After checking and modifying the linkage yet again I put it all together, with the vavles as drawn just couldn't get the valve timing correct so decided to cast caution to the wind and modify the slide valve to the sizes I'd worked out and tested on the dummy.

Made an adaptor and pluged bits up that are not required for air runing, hooked it up to the compressor and turn the valve and away she went



Whops just realised the video is of her running in reverse she go in both direction, just wind the reverser and she changes direction.

Just ran her for an hour

 :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks:

Very happy
big grin

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on September 03, 2009, 01:00:33 PM


YEE...... HAaaarrr!  :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:

Blummin well done Stew!  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: spuddevans on September 03, 2009, 01:01:40 PM
:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Well done, I knew you'd get there  :thumbup:

I bet there's a smile on your face that will take quite a while to wipe off  :)


Tim
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: rleete on September 03, 2009, 01:29:27 PM
You have now become "Choochoo Stew". :lol:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on September 03, 2009, 01:33:09 PM
 :beer: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :ddb: :beer:..... Or something like that  :thumbup:




Nice one Stew..... Glad to see your hard work paid off. An inspiration to many who like me have stuff on the shelves!!!!  :dremel:






Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on September 03, 2009, 01:37:29 PM
Well done Stew!  :clap: :clap: :D :)  :beer: :thumbup:

That is about how far my chassis is stripped down now!

Are you confident your eccentrics will hold now? I was thinking of taking them off once I've got them set right drilling right through and pinning, or do you think they may need adjusting as things wear?

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: dsquire on September 03, 2009, 02:03:50 PM
Stew  :bow:

You just had to do it. You had us sitting on the edge of our seats in eager anticipation   :coffee: every time we logged on. Now you are going to have to put up with being showered with all kinds of verbal congratulations not to mention the onslaught of  :D :ddb: :) :ddb: :ddb: :) :ddb: :D


Cheers  :beer: :beer: :beer:

Don

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: ozzie46 on September 03, 2009, 02:16:46 PM
 Way to go Stew   :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow: :bow::clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:


  Ron
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on September 03, 2009, 02:19:59 PM
Wow thanks chaps

Your support and contributions was much appreciated

I did a lap round the garden when she fired up,

Have you noticed I've started to call it she quite unconcously  :scratch: I suppose thats ok know that she's burst into life.

Just got back from having a celabratory steak and glass of wine.

Nick  

I'm going to leave things alone for a while the long term plan when things settle down and when a finally get round to running her on steam, is to mark the tumbler position and drill into the axle to take the point of the grub screw.

One happy

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: shoey51 on September 03, 2009, 03:42:05 PM
well done stew she looks prety good to me mate :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: arnoldb on September 03, 2009, 03:47:22 PM
Whooo Whooo ! Well done Stew !!!!!!!!!!!!  :D :) :D :) :D :headbang: :headbang:

Quote
Have you noticed I've started to call it she quite unconcously
:smart: That was your problem!!!  :lol: :lol: :lol: - She was a she right from the start!  :lol:

Serious congratulations  :beer: I'll join you on a drink  :beer:

 :beer:, Arnold
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: kvom on September 03, 2009, 04:07:57 PM
That video is hypnotic.  Nice job!  :clap:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on September 03, 2009, 07:18:00 PM
Nice 1 Stew, that sounds better and a bit less drastic than my idea!

Well done again!

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on September 05, 2009, 11:56:16 AM
Quote
I did a lap round the garden when she fired up,


Good job it's a small garden Stew.... If it'd been Bernd's you'd have had a marathon on your hands  :lol:







Ralph.



Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on September 06, 2009, 03:18:18 PM
Hi Chaps

Ran the loco on air for over three hours loosened up nicely had to do a little bit of tuning the reversing rod was catching the crank so had to reshape it a bit :hammer:  and make a new reversing lever, apart from that everything was fine.

I'm going to tuck her away under the bench for a months or two and get on with a few other projects.

So her's a video of her running over slowly now that she's loosened up.



Enjoy

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: arnoldb on September 06, 2009, 05:46:18 PM
Stew, EXCELLENT!!!!!

I just love that p-c-chuf p-c-chuf sound!  :) :)
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on September 06, 2009, 06:01:55 PM
Stew,

Running superbly and can hear a good strong exhaust beat, that will give you a roaring fire!!!

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on September 07, 2009, 02:10:39 AM
By `ek Stew, that`s very nice!  :thumbup:

And yer still wearing that big smile, from ear to there!  :D

David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: rleete on September 08, 2009, 07:28:47 PM
Shame to hide that mechanical ballet behind side plates.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on September 09, 2009, 05:00:18 AM
Rleete, you're right, all you see is 3 wheels rotaing either side with a coupling rod! Not as exciting to watch as some engines that have outside wallscharts, lubericators and all the rest of it on view.

Still as exciting to drive though.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on October 10, 2009, 11:14:52 AM
Her we are again as happy as can be etc etc:-----

Whilst I find a suitable motor for my tool post grinder build, I though I'd make a start on the lubricator for my loco.

The design as drawn is a ratchet driven osilator pump similar to the little engines we make but instead of driving its driven, so you can use it to pump. I'm going to follow a design recently posted in Model Engineer (22nd May 2009) that uses a much more efficient friction clutch instead of a ratchet and instead of having sprung balls for the none return valve uses a Nitrile rubber valve like the bicycle valves.

The first bit I made was the stand.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Lubricator/100_2587.jpg)

The diagonal groove is where the oil is sucked up into the piston, it then swings over and pump out the other hole on the return stroke.

Next bit to be made the piston.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Lubricator/100_2589.jpg)

Thats it for now dropped on a motor for the post grinder i'll get back to this later.

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on October 12, 2009, 07:01:44 AM
Stew,

Good planning that, because on mine I noticed the ratchet is configured such that it can only advance 1 tooth each time with full swing on the ratchet arm ... and I mean full swing as something actually gets in the way at the end of each stroke. I'm sure I had problems with this when I ran it on air all those years ago, it will be very difficult to adjust to get it to do that. So I may need a friction clutch too.

Yes they are just like a little oscillator working in reverse. Bit like fish tank pumps too. It must be a pretty strong spring though as it has to pump against 80psi of steam. Is there an o ring on the ram?

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on October 12, 2009, 07:04:53 AM
Hi Nick

Yes there is an O ring on the ram the chap who wrote the article recommends getting them from gas fag lighters.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on November 17, 2009, 04:11:15 PM
Picked up the lubricator build over the last couple of days.

I wasn't too happy with the O ring on the piston, I'd seen another build where the chap had fitted a small stuffing box on the cylinder, so I re-made the cylinder to this design and used PTFE tape to stuff the gland, it seems to work Ok, finished off the other bits so this is it all together.


(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Lubricator/100_2821.jpg)

Fabricated an oil tank up, my first attemp from copper was a disaster I think the copper was too thick to get nice neat bends, so re-made out of some nice thin brass I had, this is the lubricator squeezed into the the tank.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Lubricator/100_2823.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Lubricator/100_2825.jpg)

I'll give it a try in a couple of days powered with a drill, I'll probably have to do a bit of  :hammer: but we'll just have to see how it goes, cant connect it up to the loco as I drop one of the slip bearing into this lot  :doh: and I don't fancy clearing my shop out just yet has its been simply hissing down.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Lubricator/100_2822.jpg)

There we go

Have fun

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on November 18, 2009, 06:52:58 AM
We wer'e going to a wildlife reserve to see Whooper Swans and Pickfooted Geese over her from the artic for the winter but its p*****g down and blowing a gale so spent some time trying out the lubricator, and yes it does work




 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Have fun

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on November 18, 2009, 10:28:22 AM
How do you expect it to work when oil is dripping from a leak at the bottom.  :lol:



John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on November 18, 2009, 12:52:56 PM
Quote
How do you expect it to work when oil is dripping from a leak at the bottom.   :lol:


And on another note.... how you gonna fit that drill chuck into the loco frame  :scratch:    :ddb: 




Good stuff as always stew  :thumbup:




Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on November 18, 2009, 12:53:52 PM
 :doh:
 

:lol:

Thanks for taking the trouble to give some feed back John even if it was a p**** take.


Actually it started to pump no problem I was half expecting to have to fiddle with it but no it kicked in straight away, don't know how it will perform with the ratchets under power from the loco but I won't try that until I've got the water pump made, then I can strip it all down and fit the both pumps at the same time. I used some of that magic PTFE gasket sheeting stuff you gave me John to make sealing washer under the bolts on the tank they seem to be working OK left the tank full of oil this afternoon and there doesn't seem to be any leaks.

Have fun

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on November 18, 2009, 12:58:01 PM
Quote
How do you expect it to work when oil is dripping from a leak at the bottom.   :lol:


And on another note.... how you gonna fit that drill chuck into the loco frame  :scratch:    :ddb: 


Good stuff as always stew  :thumbup:


Ralph.


HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA    I'VE JUST BEEN RALPHED
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on November 18, 2009, 01:06:29 PM
Not much to go wrong with that design Stew, all it is an oscillator (wobbler) running the wrong way around. It should run a lot more efficiently when it goes a little slower, it will allow the oil to fill the cylinder a little better.

They can also be used for pumping water into boilers and for inflating and deflating ballast tanks with air in model submarines. A very versatile but bombproof sytem.

Nicely done.

John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Darren on November 18, 2009, 05:41:45 PM
All you need to do now is pipe it to the mill slides .....


Well done, nice to see it working in the vid  :clap:
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: shoey51 on November 19, 2009, 04:00:44 PM
bout time I caught up with this thread. wonderful work there Stew Im so jealous of your workmanship.
I havent progressed any further on my loco as Ive been having too much fun on my 7.25 gauge loco. I have had to rebuild a couple of parts tho.
keep up the great work mate
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on November 19, 2009, 04:44:45 PM
Thanks Shoey

 :wave:

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on November 20, 2009, 01:50:19 AM
 :offtopic:

This is about lubricators but a bit off topic.

When I was first setting my shop up I was short of kit and and cash to get it so I started to make bits for L. Masons Mini Traction engine I had noticed that nearly all the engines that came up for sale on fleabay didn,t have lubricators, there small and tricky to make, so I set too and made some in batches of five.

Her's a batch of five

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Modmodder/IMG_0247.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Modmodder/IMG_0251.jpg)

Just to give you an idea of size the tank is 5/8" square, her's a ratchet against a UK penny.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Modmodder/IMG_1117.jpg)

They commanded a good price, and I was able to get some good kit for my shop, a lot of the people who bought them started to ask me for other bits, but thing started to get too much like work  :hammer: and not a hobby, so I gave that particular enterprise up.


Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: shoey51 on November 20, 2009, 02:58:42 AM
nice bit of work there Stew and I agree when your hobby starts to feel like working something has to give

so back to the hobby mate :D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on November 20, 2009, 03:27:52 AM
Great stuff Stew, bet this one was like a doddle compared to those then ... you are a lubricator guru!  :thumbup:

Would it be possible to give a bit more info on the roller clutch things? Where did you get them and how are they mounted?

Thanks,

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on November 20, 2009, 04:25:35 AM
Hi Nick

I got the roller clutches from Arc Euro  http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Bearings/Needle-Roller-Clutches, the design calls for two I think you assemble them so that they work opposite to each other, they just slide down the 1/8" shaft and work, I've not tried them on the lubricator yet as I need a reciprocating action and I'll only get that when I've got it assembled in the loco, which won't be for a little while as it requires a complete strip down so I'm going to wait until I've got a few strip down jobs waiting then do the lot together. One fits in the main body of the pump the other in the activating arm.

You can see in the pic

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Lubricator/100_2589.jpg)

I'll PM you the drawings tonight if you like

Cheers

Stew



Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on November 20, 2009, 06:58:14 AM
That'd be great, thanks Stew  :thumbup:

So it's a sliding fit on the shaft is it a tight fit in housing or doesn't it matter? Oh just looked at your link and it says it is a press fit.

They look a better and easier job than ratchet and pawl and as I said there's an issue using the ratchet and pawl on this design. Thanks again

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on November 20, 2009, 10:26:01 AM
Nick

Got the body of the water feed pump made tried to see how it fits in the frame, I can't get it to fit checked everything out and all seems OK can you post a pic of your loco showing how the water pump fits between the frames.

Cheers
 :beer:
Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on November 20, 2009, 06:42:23 PM
Stew, just seen this, been in workshop tonight, will take pic tomorrow. Thanks for the lubricator drawing.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on November 21, 2009, 05:28:32 AM
Well her's the water feed pump body, I fabricated it up, but not yet soldered together, still got the inner poppet valves to do, the drawing calles for ball and spring valves, my poppet valve pump design fits inside the space envelope of the drawing valve

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Lubricator/100_2837.jpg)

And this is where its got to fit about an inch forward of this pic with the front between to motion frame:- according to the drg  :scratch:

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Lubricator/100_2835.jpg)

Interested to see how Nick's pump fits

I'm going to post the problem on the Model engineering forum to see if any one can come up with a solution.


Puzzled

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on November 21, 2009, 04:50:43 PM
Stew,

Took a few photos, unfortunately it's not quite as clean as yours  :lol: Hope these help but if not, I will strip it out and take some more detailed ones. It's coming to bits anyway.

From Top
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/NickG24/Mabel/2009-11-2122-20-45_0001.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/NickG24/Mabel/2009-11-2122-21-41_0002.jpg)

From underneath
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/NickG24/Mabel/2009-11-2122-22-21_0003.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v287/NickG24/Mabel/2009-11-2122-26-00_0004.jpg)

From what I can see there is a bracket with a cut out that bolts to a cross brace and the nut on your pump secures it to the pump.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on November 21, 2009, 05:01:10 PM
Looking again at your pic it needs to be further towards the front of the engine. It looks like the gland nut is almost under that cross-brace on mine.

I have just looked at the drawings and the gland nut does not secure the bracket to the pump. The bracket is 3/8" back from the end of the thread for the gland nut, which means the nut does infact sit under the motion plate. It has to be that far forward to clear the crank.

Don't know which drawings you are working off but the electronic ones you sent me have it on, (sheet 5).

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on November 21, 2009, 05:29:29 PM
Nick thanks for posting the pics.

I've had another go at fitting the pump, your pics confirm my conclusions, the bracket fixed to the motion frame needs to be cut away to clear the bearing plate for the lifting shaft bearing (not shown on drawing), and the bracket on the cross head goes towards the cylinder to give room for the pump body to be set far enough forward to clear the throw of the crank, (I missed this on the drawing  :doh:)

Its a right tight fit, with not much clear space at all.

Thanks again, those pics helped a lot.

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on November 21, 2009, 07:05:19 PM
Stew,

Yeah it looks a tight squeeze! Bet it's pretty fiddley to assemble all that lot! will have to take a bowl of warm water to keep thawing my fingers out when I get to the reassembling stage!

Glad I could be of some use.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on November 22, 2009, 03:10:42 PM
Thanks to Nick I understand now how the water pump fits between the frames. Before I silver soldered the fabrication together I completed the two mounting bracket, so that I could try everything in place to make sure that it would fit. This is the forward bracket that I misread the drawing on.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Lubricator/100_2851.jpg)

I was going to show the set up for soldering it together but I forgot, the only pic I've got is how I fixed the the outlet coupling. there's a 1/8" hole in the body that a little stud on the coupling fits tightly into, the feed hole in the coupling only goes part way through I drill it through when its all soldered together.

This is a C-o-C of how it goes.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Lubricator/100_2832.jpg)

And this is the fabrication soldered together.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Lubricator/100_2859.jpg)

Its turned pink due to the acid being contaminated with iron from the fixing bracket.

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on November 22, 2009, 06:20:27 PM
Fair do's Stew, you make some cracking pieces  :thumbup:


I do like watching the progress of a damn fine engineer  :dremel:   :nrocks:




Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on November 23, 2009, 03:39:15 AM
Wondered what that was Stew, looks like it has been copper welded! :lol:

Good stuff. The pump is a tiny bore isn't it? You don't happen to know whether there is a by-pass valve anywhere in the system do you? I think mine is just permanently plumbed in to the boiler - which is a bit weird as you can't control it, but the pump is so small that maybe they assume you need it running all the time and just top up with hand pump or injector if need be?

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on November 23, 2009, 04:40:23 AM
Hi Nick

Used to put that coppering effect to good use, as you know I used to be involved with making a brass item in high volumes, from time to time when we had specials to put through the line, to identify them, at the end of the shift when the acid baths were due to be changes we'd chuck a couple of bolts into the baths put the specials through and hay presto they were pink, made it a lot more difficult to get them mixed, (but it still did happen but thats another story). I've forgotten the chemical reaction that made it happen, but I think it had something to do with the zinc being removed from a micro surface layer.

As for the bypass valve there should be one in the system I've got a copy of Curley's words and music for his loco build I'll have a read through to see what I can find.

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on November 23, 2009, 07:39:51 AM
Interesting stuff!  :smart:

Ok thanks, it must need one really. I can't remember seeing one, just a pipe from tender to pump bottom and top goes straight into clack if I remember rightly.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on November 24, 2009, 04:07:02 AM
Ok:- Drilling the through holes to finish the body off.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Lubricator/100_2870.jpg)

Then turn the poppet velves and the rest of the couplings up, this is all the bits.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Lubricator/100_2881.jpg)

I had to do a bit of reshaping to get it to fit but her's the finished pump.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Lubricator/100_2880.jpg)

And squessed in between the frames not perfect but near enough to give me convidence that when I strip the loco down I'll be able to fettle things to get a better fit.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mabel%20Lubricator/100_2876.jpg)

I've tried it out by hand and it does work but a bit of a pain to get it primed tried to take a vid but by the time I'd got it primed and then reached for the camera it had lost the prime, I'm using ellcheap orings (£1 a box from the market) and I suspect they are not up to the Job. I try and pick up some better quality rings.

Well I enjoyed that bit madmoddering I took what I thought were the best parts from two design and put them together, If I get time I may do a CAD drawing of it.


Well that my loco build on the back burner for a little while, I've got a couple quick kit improvement jobs to do then I think I'll do a engine build I've been fealing the urge for a little while know,  :proj:

I was going to work on my cutter grinder idea but I need to get things outside for that and the weathers taken a turn for the worst so I leave that for another time.

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: bogstandard on November 24, 2009, 04:20:44 AM
Very nice indeed Stew.  :clap:

Modifying things to get them to work exactly how you want is what it is all about.

Take it steady and you won't lose interest.


John
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on November 25, 2009, 05:08:04 AM
Excellent work Stew! Oooh an engine build  :)
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: redpiperbob on November 29, 2009, 01:48:13 AM
Hi Stew
thanks for the warm welcome I have over the last few days read your above thread with much interest. A great build. I will take some pics of the RobRoy
later today and post them.
Bob
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on March 08, 2010, 11:50:24 AM
Well the loco has been on the back boiler for long enough and I keep getting the od  :poke: about it but I keep getting infected with  :proj: and side tracked away, so decided that I would have to do somthing stern to get myself back on track:-


RITE A TO DO LIST

This is it pinned up in the shop, now thats stern stuff  :D

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3420.jpg)

First part to get started on the regulator stand, you can get a casting for this but decided it could be easily fabricated, its mainly brass with a phos bronze port face.

These are the bits for the stand machined.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/IMG_2060.jpg)


I then silver soldered the bits together, I was going to take a picture of the soldered stand:p but desaster struck I'd had it in the pickle for 1/2 hr took it out and went to wash it off in the garden pond.

Yes thats correct I dropped it in the pond  :doh:

I've currently got the pump going emptying the pond, it has got me a few brownie points the boss's been on about cleaning the pond out for ages, I havn't told her why I'm doing it.  ::)

A wet and muddy Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on March 08, 2010, 12:28:52 PM
A wet and muddy Stew

Yes, it sounds like you do good stern stuff, Stew!  :D

David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: dsquire on March 08, 2010, 12:30:23 PM
Stew

I've heard of all kinds of excuses for playing in the mud but this is a new one :lol: :lol:

Cheers  :beer:

Don
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on March 08, 2010, 01:52:38 PM
Quote
I havn't told her why I'm doing it.   ::)
    :lol:  Now that's funny... Watch out for people reading over your shoulder though....  :wack:     :lol:


If it's any consolation Stew, the parts look nice in the picture  :)




Glad to see you on with the build  :thumbup:





Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on March 08, 2010, 02:26:02 PM
Found it

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/100_3424.jpg)


Along with 1/2 dozen frogs

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on March 08, 2010, 02:51:43 PM
Well done Stew..... What you done with the frogs?  :worthless:     :lol:   



Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on March 08, 2010, 04:04:14 PM
Well done Stew..... What you done with the frogs?  :worthless:     :lol:   

Ralph.

Blimey you'll be wanting a wild life program next with Sir David Atenburgh presenting.
 
:nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks:

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on March 08, 2010, 06:57:41 PM
Quote
Blimey you'll be wanting a wild life program next with Sir David Atenburgh presenting.

Cool, can you do that too? There's no end to your talents  :lol:  :thumbup:



I've pictures of newts, moths (I hatched from pupae) a lizard, spiders and a mouse all found over the last few years mostly in the garden or at work.... if anyone is interested?  :offtopic:.... possibly  :lol:


Sorry Stew.... We await the next instalment on the loco  :thumbup:




Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on March 09, 2010, 03:37:10 AM
Good to see you back on this project Stew. I really need to get started on my restoration but as you say -  :proj:  :lol:

Have to say, having looked at mine, I hate the design of the regulator so will be watching this with interest. The worst bit is how it's attached to the boiler with 2 csk screws through the barrel - how you are meant to effectively seal this I'm not sure - silver solder them in and hope you never need to remove it? You could still take the disc off, I think.

Can't believe you were washing it off in the pond!

I think that number 7 on your list might spurn a few more lists of its own!

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on March 09, 2010, 07:47:13 AM
Nick

I'm following Curley's design, I've seen one or two different regulator designs this is the simplest, I've not given to much taught about fixing it in the boiler, I suppose you could seal it with a dab of boss white.

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Rob.Wilson on March 09, 2010, 08:01:25 AM
Hi Stew

This is a great build ,i have the plans and a few of  the castings for Rob Roy 3,1/2" G ,i must have ago at building a loco one day  :proj: keep the photo's coming  :clap:

Cheers Rob
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on March 09, 2010, 08:59:34 AM
True, I'm sure there will be some sort of sealent we can use, it just doesn't seem the best design,

Another point is that when using it, there is a bit of flex in the rod that connects from regulator handle to the valve so it doesn't feel very positive when closed if you know what I mean, there's a bit of spring in it, suppose could get around this by having some sort of quadrant at the handle / lever end with a positive stop on it.

I prefer the sweet pea design and the one on another 5" gauge engine I had which has the valve situated external to the boiler where the handle is with a poppet type valve. Sweet pea doesn't have a steam dome but the other did, it collected steam from a pipe in the dome, transferred it back to the back plate and back to the front plate again. I am sure Curley has his reasons for putting the valve in the dome though, probably to give the steam a shorter route and less chance of condensation or something.

anyway, good work on that. I think I might have to lap the faces on mine and make sure the spring is strong enough too.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on March 14, 2010, 09:21:55 AM
Bin somewhat distracted this week any way got the regulator part finished as it got to fit on the boiler it will nead a bit of fetleing when the boilers built.

So her it is in the Closed position.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3430.jpg)

And Open

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3432.jpg)

As its out of vew in the boiler i didn't bother with bling but its got it where it counts

Thats one struck off the to Do List

Cheers

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on March 15, 2010, 08:33:03 AM
Looking good that Stew.  :thumbup: Will you be putting anything on there as a stop when it's fully open? Presume it will start to close again after that if you kept turning regulator handle?

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on March 15, 2010, 12:45:22 PM
Nick

The bar held in place with the brass screw is the stop.

I've just been to Macmodels and bought some 1/8" stainless for the control rod and a chunk of 1 1/2" square brass for the chimney, I was all set up to start making chips tomorrow then school rang asking if i could go in and invigilate an exam as they are short of numbers, best laid schemes and all that, but it adds to the shop fund.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on March 15, 2010, 04:25:37 PM
Oh, good stuff - a bit extra pocket money.  :lol:

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on March 18, 2010, 12:31:41 PM
Well after a very pleasant day visiting Dave Stilldrilling and vewing some of his engine collection.

Thanks for you'rs and Mrs Stilldrilling,s hospitality Dave I realy enjoyed my visit.

The job realy hit the buffers well four of them to be correct for the loco just a simple turning job but one that had to be done.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3435.jpg)

And her's the finished job

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3437.jpg)

Thats another one off the To Do List

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on March 18, 2010, 01:33:46 PM
Well after a very pleasant day visiting Dave Stilldrilling and vewing some of his engine collection.

Thanks for you'rs and Mrs Stilldrilling,s hospitality Dave I realy enjoyed my visit.

Stew

Yer welcome Stew, anytime!

Was a real pleasure meeting you, and discussing our type of engineering....  :thumbup:

Great job on the buffers!  :clap:

David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on March 21, 2010, 06:14:43 AM
Thanks Dave

Started work on the tender hand pum.

For the body I used a bit of Phos Bronze tubing I picked up at the scrappy it was one of those chance finds, luckily the bore cleaned up nicely with a 1/2 " reamer.

Hers the set up for drilling the pump body to take the valve chest.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3440.jpg)

And her it is all silver soldered together.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3441.jpg)


Have fun

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on March 23, 2010, 12:15:21 PM
On with the tender hand pump.

I neede some Hex bar to make some of the fitting I didn't have any but I have quite a bit of ally bronze, so using the indexer with its tail stop I made it into some 1/2 hex.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3447.jpg)

I've made a few pump using balls and was never to happy with them so decided to make this one with poppet valves.

Her it is

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3452.jpg)

Tested it out at first it didn't do much then I remembered that they like a bit of back pressure so stuck my finger over the end that did the trick got a eye full of water, made a little reduction cap with a 1mm hole just to test it out, it gave a nice jet over 5 M across the garden.

Her's the completed pump

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3455.jpg)

Thats another strike off the To Do List

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3456.jpg)

Next job up the chimney I've bought a nice bit of 1 1/2" Sq brass for this job, and then I can't escape it any longer I'll have to make a start on the boiler.

Have fun

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on March 23, 2010, 01:48:21 PM
Nicely done (again) Stew!  :clap:

I like your poppet valve mod....  :thumbup:

You keep on ticking `em off. (http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/winking/winking0001.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-msn-smileys.php)

Dav id D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Bernd on March 23, 2010, 03:47:31 PM
Nice looking hand pump Stew.  :thumbup:

Bernd
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on March 23, 2010, 04:16:48 PM
Yep, nice hand pump there Stew.  :thumbup:

That indexer has come in very handy!
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on March 24, 2010, 01:51:42 PM
Thanks Chaps

On with the Chimney, you can buy a casting for this but I just fine the hassle of casting too much far easyer to make it from solid.

Visited Macmodels and picked up a chunk of 1 1/2" squ free cutting brass I asked for 4" but he gave me a good 6" for the cost of 4".

Her it is in my self centering four jaw, both ends faced with a running centre.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3457.jpg) (http://s431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/?action=view&current=100_3457.jpg)

First the chimney was roughed out, then with the help of some radius gauges I ground myself up some form tools.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3459.jpg) (http://s431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/?action=view&current=100_3459.jpg)

And her it is with the OD finished, just got to stick a hole down the middle now.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3460.jpg) (http://s431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/?action=view&current=100_3460.jpg)

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3461.jpg) (http://s431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/?action=view&current=100_3461.jpg)

Have fun

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Bluechip on March 24, 2010, 03:01:04 PM
Stew

I'm impressed   :beer:

That's one handsome chimbley .. couldn't knock one up for me Astra could you ?

Dave BC
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Bernd on March 24, 2010, 03:23:14 PM
Ya, that's pretty darn good for free hand turning Stew.  :thumbup:

Bernd

Took a closer look at the tool pic. I missed that they were form tools.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on March 24, 2010, 03:50:25 PM
Very nice work with those form tools stew, I had no idea the chimney was 1 piece. think someone's cheated on mine and fabricated it, they used bit of rolled or bent plate for bottom where you will be probably be flycutting to get the rad to sit on smokebox.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on March 24, 2010, 08:23:14 PM
You're sure motoring (or should that be chuffing?) your way through that list Stew   :dremel:


With very nice results too  :clap:




I'd have never been able to stick to the plan.... it'd have been all sorts of shapes  :D





Looking forward to the rest  :thumbup:



Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: dsquire on March 24, 2010, 09:40:45 PM
Stew

You have really got the pieces shaping up nicely. won't be long now and we will see the results of all this fine work. That pump and chimney are works of art Stew. Keep up the good work, we're watching.  :ddb: :ddb:

Cheers  :beer:

Don
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on March 25, 2010, 03:36:52 AM
Thanks for your support Guys

Nick LBSC words and music give three options for making the chimney:- 1: casting, 2: fabricate on a bit of 1" tube with soldered rings, 3: solid from a bit of 1 1/2" squ of material, I guess the chimney for your engine used option 2: . From the works drawings the square base is riveted to the chimney with the whole lot bolted to the smoke box, so yours is probably a truer representation, I'll have to have a think as to how I can simulate those rivets.

I think engine chimneys are very important to the visual appearance of an engine, its the first thing the eye sees.


Looking forward to the rest  :thumbup:

Ralph.

I didn't think you'd been working that hard
 
:lol:

Have fun

Stew
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on March 25, 2010, 04:57:06 AM
Quote
I didn't think you'd been working that hard

Ok...  :poke:  Taken!

But I have been working..... On my car. Ruptured the fuel tank on a rock  :doh:  :bang:  :wack:  :(  So spent most of last night fixing it..... No, not welding etc (I'm not stupid!)

Drilled out the crease and used this strange, erm, well, kinda like home diy captivated thread making kit and some chemical metal.

Done it before and it worked, so did it again and it seems to be ok..... So far!  Well it's stopped me needing a new 100+ Quid tank this weekend I think?

Anyway  :offtopic:


Rivets? Maybe you'll have to solder/bond a bunch into holes drilled using the indexer/RT? Might work? 





Still enjoying the thread  :thumbup:





Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on March 25, 2010, 05:09:50 AM
By `ek Stew!   :bugeye:

Now........ That`s blummin impressive!   :bow: :bow:

Well done!  :clap:

David D

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on March 25, 2010, 07:51:01 AM
Thanks guys

Hard luck with the tank Ralph but it sounds like you got a good fix.

Drilling the hole in the chimney small drill then bigger then bigger then 7/8 to take the copper liner.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3466.jpg) (http://s431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/?action=view&current=100_3466.jpg)

Then part it off.

Now a bit of forward planning is required the chimney still needs the base flycutting to match the smoke box but I can't do that until I've made the smoke box, it will be an awkward shape to hold its got a 1 1/2 deg taper and all those radiuses and flanges to get round, to machine the taper I set the compound over, so without changing the compound bore out a collar at the same angle.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3467.jpg) (http://s431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/?action=view&current=100_3467.jpg)

Split it and you've made a split collar that will perfectly match the chimney taper.

Her it is being used to clean up the base of the chimney after parting off, this will help when I come to set it up to fly cut the rad in the base to fit the smoke box.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3468.jpg) (http://s431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/?action=view&current=100_3468.jpg)


Her is the chimney part finished with the copper liner and the collar I'll safely store them away.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3472.jpg) (http://s431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/?action=view&current=100_3472.jpg)

That another off the list.

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: raynerd on March 25, 2010, 09:21:44 AM
Nice work Stew, I don`t post too often on here because I have nothing useful to say other than this thread is certainly an excellent lesson for me and I am still following this with interest.
Chris
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on March 25, 2010, 02:13:56 PM
Nicely thought out and executed Stew  :thumbup:



I have just two questions.(same answer I suppose?)

possibly general knowledge to those of you who revere the locos?

But anyway.... here goes, why does the chimney get a copper liner? And, What would happen just leaving the brass chimney without the liner?    :scratch:







Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on March 25, 2010, 02:42:26 PM
Nicely thought out and executed Stew  :thumbup:



I have just two questions.(same answer I suppose?)

possibly general knowledge to those of you who revere the locos?

But anyway.... here goes, why does the chimney get a copper liner? And, What would happen just leaving the brass chimney without the liner?    :scratch:
Ralph.

I thought that!   ::)

But didn`t like to ask........ (http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/ashamed/ashamed0002.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net)

David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on March 25, 2010, 05:41:12 PM
Nicely thought out and executed Stew  :thumbup:



I have just two questions.(same answer I suppose?)

possibly general knowledge to those of you who revere the locos?

But anyway.... here goes, why does the chimney get a copper liner? And, What would happen just leaving the brass chimney without the liner?    :scratch:
Ralph.

I thought that!   ::)

But didn`t like to ask........ (http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/ashamed/ashamed0002.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net)

David D


MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM   Good question   :scratch:

I think it has something to do with the fact that the chimney extends down into the smoke box,  bit like an Iceberg under the water, you can see it her the drawing on the right, the copper liner is an easy way to do this.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3459.jpg)


This is so it can catch the exhausted steam which creates a draft drawing the air through grate and improving the combustion of the coal getting the firebox good and hot and making steam.

Also I don't think the brass will like the corrosive effects from the flue gases, the zinc may react to them.

Hope this makes sense

Stew

Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: John Hill on March 25, 2010, 07:39:48 PM
Great project Stew, I really enjoy following your progress on this one and every part is more impressive than the previous!
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Divided he ad on March 25, 2010, 09:32:26 PM
Quote
Hope this makes sense

Fair enough Stew, decipher the drawing properly the first time!


Thanks for the answer....


Now, as you were  :thumbup:   :)





Ralph.
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: Stilldrillin on March 26, 2010, 05:45:19 AM

Quote
Hope this makes sense

Fair enough Stew, decipher the drawing properly the first time!


Thanks for the answer....


Now, as you were  :thumbup:   :)
Ralph.


Carry on........ (http://www.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/winking/winking0001.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net)

David D
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: madjackghengis on March 26, 2010, 11:13:26 AM
Doing a fine looking job on that chimney, and giving a good answer to a question I had myself, regarding the copper tube.  Great job, can't wait to hear it run  Mad Jack
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on March 27, 2010, 11:57:30 AM
Thanks Jack

Now for the inner steam dome, the regulator fit in this and sits on top of the boiler where the dry steam collects. Its fabricated from 1 1/8 dia copper tube and copper/Phos bronze:- here are the bits set up for soldering, I used the brass bar to keep the copper collar in place.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3478.jpg)

Whoops  :doh::-- Soldered one of the brass bars to the dome    :lol:  :D

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3481.jpg)

Never mind just cleaned off when I set the job up true in the lathe to clean the face that will seal on the boiler.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3483.jpg)


Last job drill 12 holes in the collar for bolting to the boiler, using the PCD feature on the DRO.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3484.jpg)

Thats it another one off the list.

(http://i431.photobucket.com/albums/qq32/sbwhart/Mable%20Regulator/100_3489.jpg)

Cheers

Have fun

Stew



Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: NickG on March 27, 2010, 07:55:36 PM
Stew,
that is really the first part of your boiler!
As I mentioned in the elbow engine post, I got to meet Stew on Thurs and he showed me this engine running too - sounds very powerful with a great exhaust beat. Sure it will be an excellent steamer.

Nick
Title: Re: Building a 31/2" Gauge Locomotive Engine
Post by: sbwhart on March 27, 2010, 08:26:29 PM
Thanks Nick it was nice meeting up with you and chewing the fat.

Now you come to mention it yes that is the first bit of the boiler never thought of it that way, I've just got to get the rest of it done now, I,m thinking of starting another topic just for the boiler build.

Cheers

Stew