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The Shop => Our Shop => Topic started by: vtsteam on December 04, 2014, 06:08:48 PM

Title: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 04, 2014, 06:08:48 PM
My main shop is about 300 feet from the house, 10 x20, uninsulated and unheated, and it doubles as storage space. It's okay for summer use but pretty tough for winter work -- and steeply down hill. Kinda creepy walking there through the dark woods at night, too!

I have another small shed only 20 feet from the house that once housed a wood furnace I built (HAHSA type).

It's built of concrete block and has a metal roof and also features a built-in brick chimney. So it would be ideal for a small cozy shop to work in evenings.

It should be easy to heat There is  3" foam insulation on the outside of the block, giving a good thermal mass. And one end is actually underground, since it's built into a steep hill. Heat retention is very good. The only problem is, it's tiny -- 6 feet by 8 feet, and the chimney comes down to the slab at one end giving a practical floor space of really more like 6 by 6 feet.

Still I think it's usable -- a small space is better than no space! So I built up the floor a couple weeks ago with a couple inches more concrete (it used to drain in from the door instead of being level), and have started to make two full length benches. They can extend beside the chimney -- so can be full 8' long. Top width on one side could be 24" and on the other side 20" to clear the door.

Two full length benches would take up 44 of the 72 inches available, leaving an aisle of 28" between them. I think that's tight but do able, and I figure I'll mostly be sitting down anyway. I suppose I could reduce wider bench to 20" and get an aisle of 32". But I'm not sure if that will really make much positive difference, and a wider bench seems to me to be more useful.

I know the basic machines I'd like to put in there -- all of which have been stored and and unfortunately attacked by surface rust. They need TLC -- and the new shop is just the excuse needed to restore them to good condition.

They are:

7" Gingery lathe w/milling attachment
Atlas horizontal mill
Small Delta bench top drill press
Small Delta bench top jigsaw
Small Delta bench top belt and disk sander

I have a spare good heavy vise, too

And if I can figure out how to do it -- I'd like to convert the lower block portion of the chimney to a miniature forge and melting furnace. It could then also provide heat, though I'll have an electric oil filled radiator in the shop as well.

The jigsaw and sander will be used for pattern making, and the sander can double as a tool sharpener. If I need to take off serious metal I can always go down to the bigger shop and use the bandsaw and grinder.

The workbenches will be built from wood with drawers -- I started on the 20" side today.

The small tools will make it seem like a miniature version of my larger summer workshop which has a 12" lathe, round column mill/drill, etc.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: mattinker on December 04, 2014, 06:56:33 PM
This sounds like fun!

Regards, Matthew.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 04, 2014, 10:43:34 PM
Thanks Matt!

I'll try to get some pics tomorrow.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on December 05, 2014, 02:37:54 AM
I'll follow this with interest Steve not sure of the forge idea though in such a tight space.

One thing I'd say though, 'split site' working can be a real pain as the tool that you want is ALWAYS in the other workshop. Or even worse, you think that it is, go find to find it, and find that actually it's where you started.

With the amount of ground you have is there no possibility of long term building a new larger shed close to the house?
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: mechman48 on December 05, 2014, 06:27:13 AM
Sounds like 'split decision' time   :D  I would go for the nice cosy option in winter, could you not rig up a forge in your big shed, will add heating when you're in there ..  :scratch:

George
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 05, 2014, 10:22:33 AM
Hi guys, thanks for the comments!

The idea for a small (and I did mean very small) foundry/forge was just an afterthought -- just because of the unused chimney, not necessary for the shop. The main thing is to have some small machines to work with near the house

Andrew, the land near the house is on a steep grade, so it would take a lot of earth moving to get a big enough level space where I'd want a shop, and honestly I don't have the time or funds to do much building right now. The benches and concrete for the floor for this space are the limit of what I can spare at the moment.

I definitely agree that what you want is always in the other shop in situations like this, but I just have to put up with it.  It's better than not working at all this winter.

Mechman seems like a reasonable idea but a forge/foundry in the larger shop would be difficult/expensive because it's presently just a raised wooden floor shed on piers, and no existing chimney. And insulating that building would be a major project -- especially with all that's presently in it.

I do have a furnace outdoors there, but with the amount of snow we get, it just isn't possible to use in winter. And it still doesn't solve the long distance at night problem.

I think the micro shop will be the most do-able option, this year, at least.

I should have mentioned -- the little cement block shop does have additional space outside that is covered by lean-to roof additions. Poured a slab under one side last week as well -- that could serve as a foundry location for a bigger setup, though no chimney there. But it is open at the sides and the roof is metal -- I could put in a stovepipe chimney fairly easily.

That is if I can get various outgrown kid bikes and other non-necessary storage junk out of there. Time for a secret dump run. Seems like every time I build a space for myself to work in, it fills up with odball storage items as soon as I turn my back! Well, my fault, too :lol: I keep thinking Everything can be used for something else. But I'm starting to feel more ruthless about getting rid of stuff these days.

The other side addition houses my Lister diesel type generator -- and it is plumbed to supply heat to the block house section already via the radiator. So if I run the generator I can get heat from just that as well. But I already have grid power to the shop, so the generator isn't necessary. Still, it's fun to run.

I have to get pictures today for you guys so you can see what I'm talking about here.....

 :worthless:

Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on December 05, 2014, 10:54:22 AM
Steve,

If you are on a steep slope to the house, is there any mileage thinking of a construction UNDER the house as a shop? I know that you built it yourself, so you know what's structural and what's not.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 05, 2014, 11:25:01 AM
No Andrew, that's not possible. The house is on concrete piers, 15 of them. Drop offs on 2 sides -- one side is probably 20 degrees, though there is a cantilevered house section there of 10' x 20' that could be deepened -to give headroom - but essentially inaccessible without road building, etc. 

I'm hoping to use my rehabilitated backhoe next summer to make some changes around the house in general for better access, but not this year.

After checking my Atlas mill and Gingery lathe, I think the 20" wide bench I started yesterday is just too narrow for them. And I think the 24" bench (not started yet) is going to take up too much aisle room for me to be happy with both -- at least if they are both full length. So I may be shifting things around today and also shortening bench plans.

In fact I might have to eliminate the Atlas mill altogether, which wouldn't be a tragedy. I built extensive milling attachments for the Gingery lathe. And it's more fun to use something you built yourself.

I just hate the fact that I never use that Atlas mill for anything and I've got a big range of tooling for it. But it really wants mounting on a bench corner as a minimum -- you really need access to 2 sides of a horizontal mill. Full length  benches have no corners! Maybe it's time to think about selling it.


Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on December 05, 2014, 11:47:10 AM
Having been grossly overcrowded  at my last place, I've developed the habit of trying to make as much possible to be moveable on castors. Could you have the lathe and mill on custom wheeled trolleys that can be moved to give access as and when needed? My bigger stuff is mainly sorted so that I can get a pallet jack under it to roll it out of the way when needed.

So you (perhaps) could have a bench down one side, and the moveable machines down the other or some similar sort of idea?
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: DavidA on December 05, 2014, 12:50:44 PM
I feel you pain regarding the space problem.
My big shed seemed quite adequate a few years ago, But when I added a large radial arm saw and a couple of benches it suddenly wasn't so usable. In fact the saw will have to go, I don't often us it,  and it really take up a lot more room that one would think.
A pity really.

I can really recommend the small heated shop.Sadly mine isn't big enough to take the Denford Viceroy. That has to await big shed modification, phase four. 

Dave.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: backofanenvelope on December 05, 2014, 01:21:29 PM
As a noob to the site I have been following your threads vtstream and would love to see pics of your Gingery and additions. As someone who has little to no space looking forward to seeing pics for your mini-me workshop..

Regards
Tom
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 05, 2014, 02:33:45 PM
Finally, here are some pics to show you what I'm talking about. Shed from back (in ground lower wall). You can see the two side extensions and chimney.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed1.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 05, 2014, 02:36:02 PM
From front, left extension. Slab just poured with bikes/storage already on it.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed2.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 05, 2014, 02:39:28 PM
Interior of the central block house, showing chimney, partially decked 20" bench on left. The distance to the walls from the chimney is 20" on each side. The door is offset to the left. The right side could be 24" and still clear the door. Left must be 20" to clear the door.

The upper crowded shelf on the left is left over from earlier and will be removed.

The radiator upper right is for the generator and can heat the shop.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed3.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 05, 2014, 02:45:15 PM
Interior of the right side extension of the shed, showing the generator:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed4.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 05, 2014, 02:53:54 PM
Bench partly planked -- giving a better view of the size (8' long).

Interfering shelf will be removed.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed5.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 05, 2014, 02:58:22 PM
As a noob to the site I have been following your threads vtstream and would love to see pics of your Gingery and additions. As someone who has little to no space looking forward to seeing pics for your mini-me workshop..

Regards
Tom

Hi Tom,

I went into more detail here (if you havent seen this already).

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=8191.0
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: Brass_Machine on December 05, 2014, 03:07:32 PM
Hi Steve,

Looks a little compact but completely doable. You could have a cozy winter workshop soon.

I used to have that drill press!

Eric
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: DavidA on December 05, 2014, 03:46:04 PM
...and would love to see pics of your Gingery ...

There aren't many sites where you can write that and not have the moderators ban you.

VT,

Looking at your shed,  may I suggest that you change the chimney stack from concrete to a cast iron tube.  I have a pot belly stove in my big shed and I find that most of the heat comes from the iron chimney,  not from the stove.

Just an idea.

Dave
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: backofanenvelope on December 05, 2014, 04:53:05 PM
Hi Tom,

I went into more detail here (if you havent seen this already).

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=8191.0

Thanks a lot, don't know how I missed that! :)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 05, 2014, 05:59:12 PM
Thanks David it doesn't take much to heat that tiny insulated space. I don't want to tear out the chimney. I also have an oil filled electric radiator, that I probably will use a lot of the time anyway.

Eric, I sure have drilled a lot of holes with that drill press since 1995!  :dremel: -- TThe last 8 years it's been in storage along  with the now somewhat shabby Gingery lathe.

This new shop Is a great reason to bring them back and fix them up -- really happy about that. I always liked working with the Gingery -- more than the 12" Craftsman that I mostly use now. The QC toolholders I made a couple years ago fit both, so this should make the Gingery even better.

I removed the shelf over the 20" bench and set the Gingery on it. Photo below. Sticks out quite a bit. But if I move the motor on top of the jackshaft instead of in back of it, I can lose about 6" of width for the lathe footprint, and it will fit. So, if I don't use the Atlas mill, I won't need a 24" bench on the other side -- I can go with 20", and that will make the shop feel roomier. And possibly allow the furnace idea down the road.

If someone was really clever they would move the whole drive section over the top of the headstock, and maybe even create a mini lineshaft to drive a Pott's spindle. But not me, at this point!

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed6.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: RussellT on December 06, 2014, 04:17:29 AM
Could you remove a corner of the chimney breast so you could make a wider shelf in the corner for the mill.  That might go some way to meeting the requirement for access from two sides.

Russell
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 07, 2014, 06:21:12 PM
I could do that Russell, but I think I'm going to wait and see how it just feels with both benches in place. I think I want the aisle in the center to be 32" instead of 28".

If I do add a small foundry/forge/stove opening, I'll have to cut out some of that block for it. I'll need the width, at least temporarily, to support the chimney while I've broken away the center, before I've reinforced the opening with fire-brick. So I'm going to leave the whole structure as-is for now.

Today I cut wood and made up 3 sets of legs for the right side bench. These are shorter legs -- 34-1/2" to yield a 36" finished height. The left bench has a 40" finished height, which feels okay for some things but high for others. A framing nail gun is overkill for making these, but since I have it, it does make holding alignments easy compared to pounding in nails.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed7.jpg)

I got the right side bench partially planked by evening, but no photo for that, yet
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 10, 2014, 08:49:18 PM
It's been a week of continuous sleet, snow, rain, and slush, not to mention the wind. I need to get materials for the shop, but it's just too nasty and wet to transport them in the pickup truck and walk them in. Six more inches of wet snow predicted tonight. I'm hoping tomorrow to be able to get to the lumber yard and pick up some plywood. But sorry, no progress so far that last 3 days.... :(
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: tom osselton on December 10, 2014, 11:13:52 PM
We have had a chinook here in Calgary for the last 2 / 3 weeks 9:00 at night and +8 for temp it should be here for a few more days :thumbup:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 11, 2014, 08:58:15 PM
Brrrrrr! Tom....

We didn't get the snow predicted last night, only an inch. I was able to pick up plywood at the lumberyard about 5 miles away this afternoon.

I had to cut my bench top -- can't keep it full length (temporarily) because I wanted to put plywood as a back panel to stiffen the bench up. And to provide support for the 2 vertical plywood dividers I plan to put in. The dividers will hold the drawer slides to provide 3 vertical drawer sections.

There was no way to move the bench out away from the wall if it extends full length. The chimney blocks it from being moved out.  No way to fasten the back panel on. Or the vertical dividers.

So I cut the bench top down to 5 feet. I'll replace the missing 3 foot length when the dividers are in place.

Here's a photo of the top after cutting it short. The ply back panel is sitting on top of the bench. I later scooched the bench out and clambered in behind it, and fastened the panel in place.

This is the only photo -- so much stuff in the shop I had to shoot through the door.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed8.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: SwarfnStuff on December 11, 2014, 11:37:33 PM
 :)  Oh the joys of a tiny shop.  :lol: You will soon learn to choreograph your moves around it. In my little (perhaps not tiny) shop I hang whatever I can on the walls - Would use the ceiling too if I wasn't 6'3" tall and the ceiling a tad taller than me. (Tad: "a scientific measure slightly less than a smidgeon"). Yeah I know we have gone metric here in OZ but I was that high way before metric. In the making of swarf process though, I use metric almost exclusively.
John B
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: DavidA on December 12, 2014, 07:08:23 AM
VT,

How much do you have to pay for your timber over there ?

I was thinking of 3" X 2" scantlings and 8' X 4' ply panels.

Dave.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 12, 2014, 09:32:46 AM
Swarf  :)  I used to design and build boats, so fitting a lot in limited space is something I'm used to. Though not on land! 6-4 -- man you're up there!

Dave, scantlings -- you must be a sailor, too...... the 1/4" 4x8 plywood I bought called "Luan" was $17 per sheet. But the term Luan is mistaken. That used to signify a weak soft Phillipine mahogany with a thick core and very thin faces.

This time at the lumberyard, what they called "Luan" was actually birch faced plywood -- very strong and hard faced -- ideal for what I wanted, so I went with that.

Ordinarily I would have preferred Douglas fir plywood, but that is now $32 a sheet for 1/4" thick AC grade (good one face, C grade other face). In the US after the War, native Douglas fir plywood used to be the standard. Now it's getting scarce and expensive.

For regular timber -- I would normally saw my own from pine since I have a sawmill. But the weather is just not good for that now, and I want to get this shop done, so I bought 2 by 4s.

These are spruce (in the Northeast) and measure 1-1/2" x 3-1/2" actual. An 8 footer is about $3, locally. The quality is dismal -- so I usually have to pick through the piles at the lumberyard, and sight down every piece to find a straight one. I'd say the reject rate is about 50% on a fresh stack, for me. Worse if an old stack.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: chipenter on December 12, 2014, 10:13:33 AM
I am with you on the quality it has gone down so mutch ,I once sent a whole load of timber back 250 cu foot it was so bad .
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 12, 2014, 07:53:19 PM
Jeff, true. Yesterday I had to go back to the office at the lumberyard to correct the slip they gave me -- I'd already loaded 2 sheets of plywood with a yard man's help. I needed a 2x6 to finish. And he said he'd get it and load it while I was in the office. I hesitated. I always like to pick my own lumber. So I said, "Okay, but make sure it's a straight one." He said he would.

I got back to the truck and sighted down the 2x6. It had cross grain and  a big bend at one end. The yard man was gone so I walked the piece back to the stacks, and after sorting through 4 other pieces finally found a straight one.

The sad thing is, I don't think he was trying to pull a fast one. I think he truly didn't know the difference. He probably never brought the end up to his eye -- just looked at it from afar and thought it was straight.

Anyway -- not much done today on the shop. Late afternoon I hunted up an old salvaged sheet of 1/2" plywood that was leaning against a storage shed. It was in good shape still, even though it had spent 10 years there -- protected by some metal roofing in front and the shed overhang. Just the bottom edge near the ground had rotted for a couple inches.

So, that saved about $35 in plywood. I cut the sheet up into 4 pieces for 4 vertical dividers to go into the bench. Two against the end legs, and two hanging in the center. These pieces will carry the drawer slides, The two end pieces sit on top of the leg cleats. The two center pieces are 3-1/2" longer and will get 1by4 cleats to match on either side. These together will form the bottom most drawer slides for 3 drawer sections.

Sorry, no pics today -- it got too dark too quickly.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 13, 2014, 05:36:00 PM
I ripped up some 1 by 6 into 3/4" square x 17" drawer slides, and cut some 1 by 4 into 17" lengths for the bottom slides. The salvaged plywood for dividers is also on top of the bench. One of the plywood end pieces is just sitting in place to check fit, on top of the back leg cleat. It will get drawer slides glued and fastened in place first before screwing to the legs.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed9.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 14, 2014, 05:16:32 PM
Today, I sanded the plywood end panels and divider panels, and began gluing and screwing the drawer slides in position.

A side piece for each drawer depth (there are 4 different depths) was used as a spacer to determine where to place the slide. I used 1/8" shims to give enough clearance for sliding and wood movement before screwing the slides down. You can see a drawer side and the slide and shims here:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed10.jpg)

Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 14, 2014, 05:24:17 PM
Here is a finished end panel in position. It sits on top of the 2x4 leg cleat, and that cleat also serves as the bottom slide.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed11.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 14, 2014, 05:30:15 PM
The two divider panels. These are 3-1/2" longer than the side panels and have 1 by 4's screwed to the bottom to act as slides for the same drawer that will ride on the leg cleats of the side panels.

All ready to go for attachment to the bench tomorrow.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed12.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on December 15, 2014, 02:44:38 AM
That's going to give you masses of storage space Steve. There's a severe danger you may actually be able to find things  :lol:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: DMIOM on December 15, 2014, 04:35:25 AM
That's going to give you masses of storage space Steve. There's a severe danger you may actually be able to find things  :lol:

And if there was a similar bench carcass in your "summer" workshop when spring comes you could just migrate the filled drawers rather than tool-by-tool  :dremel:

Dave
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: backofanenvelope on December 15, 2014, 05:44:53 AM
And if there was a similar bench carcass in your "summer" workshop when spring comes you could just migrate the filled drawers rather than tool-by-tool  :dremel:

Dave

Now this idea I like as I am forever forgetting tools either outdoors or indoors :)

This build has given me some ideas about use of space I hadn't considered..

TomC
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 15, 2014, 03:26:49 PM
Thanks gang!

Andrew, my messiness can overcome any structure! I need to practice discipline in putting things away after I use them! 

Always seems to happen that I get called in to dinner, or off to a meeting after working outside, so I grab all the tools and pile them on the bench. I gotta start planning on finishing and cleaning up, BEFORE the end of the day,or some other deadline. Hard to do for me -- I always want to do twice as much as will fit in any particular hour.

DMIOM, I actually do have one -- and great idea! But different dimensions since this space is so narrow, and unfortunately, different size drawers. But good one!

BackofEnv, Great I hope something here is useful! This bench is pretty much designed by Dave Gingery, with some changes for dimensions and the top material and divider thickness.

Today, I added the dividers, and scooched the bench out again to fasten them in place to the backboard.

A strip of 1x 4 was added to the top and bottom on the front side of the bench to fasten the dividers there as well.

I cut a piece of scrap plywood as a spacer gauge while screwing the dividers in place, you can see it in the pic below. It's exactly the desired divider spacing (greater than the actual drawer size), and I slid it in, top and bottom, front and back while fastening each section. If it slides and fits everywhere, that's perfect. And it does. A lot easier than measuring and marking, and keeping things aligned by hand.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed13.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 15, 2014, 03:35:12 PM
With the dividers in place, it was time to start on the drawers. First thing I did was put a dado in a couple long pieces of stock, which will accept the 1/4" plywood drawer bottom. I did it with just a small combinaton blade on my old Craftsman 8" table saw -- so it took 3 passes to get a 1/4" wide groove.

Then I chopped those up into the various lengths needed for the drawers. There's enough stock here for 3 drawers -- I didn't want to cut all 15 drawers worth of parts at once in case of a measurement error someplace.

The drawer fronts (far right) get a rabbet to take the drawer sides as well. This was done on the table saw using both the fence and miter gauge, with a piece of scrap wood as a spacer.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed14.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 15, 2014, 03:44:59 PM
Here's how I set up the first cut of the drawer front rabbet using both the fence and miter gauge.

Generally it's not a good idea to use both at the same time, or the cut can bind. But if you put a piece of scrap wood against the fence behind the saw's blade slot, it can act as a length stop for your material in the miter gauge, But when the gauge is pushed forward the work is clear of the scrap block at the cutting edge, so doesn't bind.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed15.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 15, 2014, 03:48:03 PM
Checking the fit of the pieces before gluing:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed16.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 15, 2014, 03:52:41 PM
And glued and fastened together. They work fine, and I didn't cut anything short (unusual!), so tomorrow, on to the other 12!

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed17.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: bertie_bassett on December 15, 2014, 04:04:21 PM
looking good!

i like those draws a lot, nice and sturdy.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on December 15, 2014, 04:11:19 PM
Steve this is revealing a high level of wood working skills - pulled through no doubt from your boat building past ?

Looking very nice  :bow:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 15, 2014, 10:40:16 PM
Thanks kindly, boys! Just some plain carpentry -- I think anybody can do it.  Boatbuilding was different. Everything is curves in 3 dimensions, and fitting is hand work with chisels, and short planes. Boatbuilder's use bandsaws, joiners use table saws.

I'm not a very experienced carpenter (straight line man), even though I spent years building boats. Actually, the biggest thing that helped me learn to use a table saw was taking wood shop in 7th grade -- they don't teach that in schools anymore. Used to be you'd make a chessboard, and turn a cherry salad bowl. Now that's all too dangerous for kids.

Anyway, so far, fingers crossed on this bench! We'll see if I manage to make all those drawers without cutting 12 pieces short or putting rabbets on the wrong side of them..... :)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: chipenter on December 16, 2014, 03:22:22 AM
Good quality timber you have there , iff I went to the timber yard over hear I would still be looking , its grown as a crop and is cutt to soon and the notts don't grow out , looking good .
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: DavidA on December 16, 2014, 08:01:21 AM
. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

...I need to practice discipline in putting things away after I use them!  ..

Thanks for that,  I like a good laugh.

But seriously,  those are fine drawers.

Dave,
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 17, 2014, 02:36:40 PM
Chipenter, yes it was nice pine -- a few knots, but easy to put them in the back or sides of the drawer. It wasn't cheap, though. About $75 for the material to do the drawers and front trim. The yard I bought it at doesn't have lower grade pine, so that was the only choice. When I saw pine with my own mill, the quality isn't as good from my own trees, but the quantity makes up for it, since you can cut out the knots.

David, well I'm hoping with a tiny shop this old dog will at least try to learn new tricks!

Thanks, boys for the kind comments!

Today I finished molding and cutting out the pieces for the other 12 drawers. Made a few small mistakes, but none that I couldn't fix -- I've learned over the years to cut my longest pieces first, so if I mess up, I can cut shorter pieces out of it. That saved me twice here, because I bought nearly exactly what I needed, and no more.

Had the table saw throw about a 1/4" (6mm) cube of white pine at me -- you'd think something that light and small wouldn't do much, but it hit me on the back of the middle finger, and it is now swollen and stings like heck. Felt like I'd got hit by a good sized rock. No damage, but glad it didn't go for the face. Stood off to the side more while sawing after that.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed18.jpg)



Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: S. Heslop on December 17, 2014, 06:10:58 PM
Thanks kindly, boys! Just some plain carpentry -- I think anybody can do it.  Boatbuilding was different. Everything is curves in 3 dimensions, and fitting is hand work with chisels, and short planes. Boatbuilder's use bandsaws, joiners use table saws.

I'm not a very experienced carpenter (straight line man), even though I spent years building boats. Actually, the biggest thing that helped me learn to use a table saw was taking wood shop in 7th grade -- they don't teach that in schools anymore. Used to be you'd make a chessboard, and turn a cherry salad bowl. Now that's all too dangerous for kids.

Anyway, so far, fingers crossed on this bench! We'll see if I manage to make all those drawers without cutting 12 pieces short or putting rabbets on the wrong side of them..... :)

I always find it funny that Design Technology and Resistant Materials (couldn't just call it woodworking) was my least favourite class in school. Had no idea at the time that it'd become my number one thing.

Still, doing nice carpentry takes more patience than I have. I bungle most projects that I set out to make nice since I start getting fed up with them and rush it.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 17, 2014, 09:42:44 PM
Still, doing nice carpentry takes more patience than I have. I bungle most projects that I set out to make nice since I start getting fed up with them and rush it.

Huh?????

Not from the evidence, I've seen!  :bow:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: Eugene on December 18, 2014, 04:18:15 AM
Steve, Nice work.

Consider your bench design and method duly nicked. I showed your pics to The Management who said words to the effect of "Get on with it, then. That old desk in the workshop is falling apart and I'm fed up of looking at it!"

Eug
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 18, 2014, 08:11:33 AM
Eugene, that's great! Of course I nicked it from Dave Gingery, with some small changes to fit the dimensions of my tiny shop.

And if you want to get it right from the horse's mouth, the design and full description is in "Uncle Dave Gingery's Shop Notebook" by Vincent Gingery.

I think it costs about $7, and though not a big book, is definitely worth the price for the bench construction details alone.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: NormanV on December 18, 2014, 10:29:44 AM
I was a DT teacher, before I retired three years ago, but not in UK so I didn't have to follow the British National Curriculum. I had the kids doing wood turning and making proper stuff. I think that they mostly enjoyed it and learned something. I have heard that my successor has them doing written work most of the time.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 18, 2014, 11:25:58 AM
Drives me nuts, Norman. I'm on the district school board and it's useless fighting the changes. People who don't know how to use their hands other than to drive to a store or hold a cell phone are directing kids into total incapability. They fear manual work, and hope children will never have to sink to that level. I used to be angry, now I'm just sad. I see it's hopeless to change it at the school administration level.

To me a forum like this one preserves our skills, and our fascination and enjoyment in something well made. Problems overcome, design and execution, knowing how things work, what they are made of, and how they were made. People need that, and in fact want that. So here it is, a record of who we were, in this time, and what we made. In 20 years, most of us here will be gone. Remember what we did, if you're reading this then. And carry it on. You are as capable as you want to be.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 18, 2014, 03:11:26 PM
I finished making the drawers this afternoon. Still more to do, but I already put a few things that were lying around into them!

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed19.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: tom osselton on December 18, 2014, 04:41:07 PM
It's a good looking bench I hope when I make mine it will look half as good!
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 18, 2014, 04:50:09 PM
Thanks Tom!! :beer:

Finally today I cut up most of the scrap from the drawer wood into strips and added those as trim to the sides and between the drawers. Now they are flush and the plywood edges are covered. Only problem is........I should have made drawer handles first -- it's rough on the fingernails getting those drawers out! :loco:

Oh well, tomorrow.......

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed20.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on December 18, 2014, 05:06:01 PM
Why not bore finger holes - maybe a bit over an inch. Handles are going to snag you as you work in there.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 18, 2014, 05:10:15 PM
I just don't like 'em, Andrew.  :beer:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on December 18, 2014, 05:12:09 PM
OK a 'hand rebate' in the top edge of each drawer?
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: backofanenvelope on December 18, 2014, 05:24:04 PM
Lovely work Steve and filed under the will do later pile.. I'm with the rebate vote :thumbup:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 18, 2014, 05:44:29 PM
Handles.  :beer:



Thanks BOE!
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: Manxmodder on December 18, 2014, 08:04:49 PM
I just don't like 'em, Andrew.  :beer:

That would make the front look very much like a block of high rise mouse apartments  :lol:

They're a bad enough problem without encouraging them.....OZ.

Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: Swarfing on December 19, 2014, 04:34:25 AM
Fantastic job, when can you ship em over  :nrocks:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 19, 2014, 08:48:09 AM
You know, that's not a bad idea, swarfing.....  :smart:

maybe pre-cut kits of the non-ply parts.......? I have the standing timber and the sawmill......white pine, hemlock, hard birch, cherry, ash, basswood, maple, and oak. Couldn't do the plywood, though. People would have to supply their own. Could be custom sized benches, too, pretty easily, I think.

It's something for me to think about.

Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: Joe d on December 19, 2014, 08:51:02 AM
That's looking good Steve!  I'm with OZ on the whole hole question ( :ddb:)
the local field mice would be putting up signs for the new condo development!

Some low-profile handles as opposed to knobs given the space constraints, or
you will have permanent bruises from the knobs.

Cheers, Joe
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: DMIOM on December 19, 2014, 09:14:54 AM
Why not bore finger holes - maybe a bit over an inch. Handles are going to snag you as you work in there.

For bruise-free low-profile handles, how about popping a couple of very small holes 6" apart in each drawer front and then a length of cordage with a figure-of-8 knot on the inside of each end?

Dave
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: Joules on December 19, 2014, 09:18:15 AM
Inset brass loop handles would be my choice.

(http://hi.atgimg.com/img/p400/1186/100111.11.jpg)

Very nice done job by the way... :thumbup:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: Swarfing on December 19, 2014, 04:30:30 PM
What about a knotted rope pull?
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 19, 2014, 05:23:43 PM
Holy cow, I didn't realize drawer handles would be such a hot topic  :)

Well, I'll probably spoil the suspense by saying it, but I just planned on making them out of wood! Lots of idea creativity here, though. :beer:

Today I went to the lumberyard again and picked up a sheet of 1/4" tempered hardboard (we used to call it Masonite) to surface the bench with.

After I got back home, I replaced the benchtop timber I had sawn off a few days ago to gain access to the back of the bench. It was just a matter of screwing the 2 by 4s to the rear legs and to a cleat under the joint between the two sections.

Then I took an 8 foot 2 by 4 and ripped it into a 1-1/2" square section, and rabbeted it 1/4" deep and 3/4" across on the table saw to serve as a cap. The rabbet is there to accept the hardboard. I attached the cap to the benchtop all the way to the back wall, further stiffening the joint between the two halves of the top.

Then I ripped a full length strip of hardboard (without a helper or a big bench it was like like trying to saw a wet noodle!) and screwed it down, countersinking the screws.

Here it is when I was done. The bench is back to the full 8' long, and the cap padded it out to just short of 20" in width.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed21.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: S. Heslop on December 19, 2014, 07:56:51 PM
Not from the evidence, I've seen!  :bow:

I don't think i've ever fully finished a project. I'm one of those guys that gets a thing to the point that it's working, if just barely, and that's good enough.

I was a DT teacher, before I retired three years ago, but not in UK so I didn't have to follow the British National Curriculum. I had the kids doing wood turning and making proper stuff. I think that they mostly enjoyed it and learned something. I have heard that my successor has them doing written work most of the time.

I visited a DT teacher at the school my mom works at. Canny guy, gave me a bunch of wood and metal that they'd probably end up just throwing out some day. Had some big disks of mahogany that they'd gotten from an old fire station where used them to hang the helmets, and they came in handy almost immediately for extending the legs on my grandma's chair. They were the right colour and shape too.

a forum like this one preserves our skills

It sounds corny, but i've learned more from the internet than I ever did in school.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: RussellT on December 20, 2014, 05:16:59 AM
Well just to add my thoughts on handles....  :scratch:

I think given the width of the space that making the handles as flat as possible would be a good plan - sonner or later you will be cursing sticky out ones.

I like the brass ones but I think they would cost more than the rest of the project put together so I wouldn't go for those.  I approve of the sentiment with the rope ideas but I think they would spoil the look of the drawers.

I have some other ideas  :scratch:  You could use lie flat leather strap handles as used on trunks and briefcases.  I'm sure you could make something from an old belt.  I think that would look better than rope or string.

You could use webbing instead of any of the leather or string suggestions.

You could make wooden flush handles as used on boats and set them into the drawer fronts or use a router to make a knob directly in the drawer front (beyond me - but I suspect not beyond you).

I think the drawers look great - far too good for a workbench. :clap: :thumbup:

The drawers on my workbench don't even match - they have been reclaimed from old furniture and rails bodged to fit.

Russell


Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: DMIOM on December 20, 2014, 05:55:00 AM
Handles - if you don't want all-the-way-through holes, and there isn't enough meat to run a hockey-stick pull along the edge; how about pocketing a pull? (almost-through pocket and then run a drawer-pull cutter round the edges of the pocket?) - like this (https://www.canadianwoodworking.com/tipstechniques/no-hardware-drawer-pull)

Dave
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 20, 2014, 04:33:32 PM
After pulling out the vise and drill press to see how they fit on the bench top, I decided to spend the afternoon cleaning off the storage rust.

Since it's too cold to keep a tub of water and soda electrolyte, or connect a hose to rinse them off, as in summer, I decided to try to use a damp cloth to carry electrolyte, and clean some pieces, in situ.

Here's what the vises and drill table looked like:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Table1.jpg)

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Vises1.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 20, 2014, 04:40:06 PM
Here's a cloth pad (old cloth diaper (nappie?)) cut to fit the drill press table, and a scrap block of steel as an electrode.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Pad1.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 20, 2014, 04:49:41 PM
Here's the pad and electrode set up on the drill press. I used a battery charger set to 6 volts. Current draw with this setup was about an amp. I wore rubber gloves even though this was a low voltage (washing soda is rough on skin -- as well as conductive), and never touched the press or pads while the charger was plugged in. Even low voltage can kill if the current is high enough, or there is a ground fault, and I don't take chances that way.

I had the door to the tiny shop open while de-rusting -- that's practically as much ventilation as removing a wall on a shop this small. I don't recommend anyone else try this under other circumstances, but as I did it I felt confident I wasn't going to fry myself or ignite gasses. The precautions hold true of charging an auto battery in a space like this.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Pad2.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 20, 2014, 04:54:45 PM
I was gratified to be able to see even the original factory milling marks of the drill press table after only 10 minutes of de-rusting using this setup:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Table2.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 20, 2014, 05:01:09 PM
The bench vise was trickier because it wasn't flat, Rust removal wasn't perfect, but good enough for now. Next summer I'll probably take it apart, de-rust in a tank, and paint it.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Vises2.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 20, 2014, 05:06:11 PM
The drill press and drill press vise look a lot happier than they did before. You can see I'm de-reusting the base below.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/PressandVise.jpg)
Well that's all for today.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on December 20, 2014, 05:08:28 PM
That's pretty impressive rust stripping Steve  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: SwarfnStuff on December 21, 2014, 12:06:23 AM
Congrats, a good solution with an equally good result.  :clap: Don't get it too pretty or you won't want to use it in case you mark it?  :lol:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: backofanenvelope on December 21, 2014, 04:47:31 AM
very interesting! I learn something new every day and I have a couple of things that would benefit from this process. Looks like I am going to have a busy year ahead.. :)

TomC
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 21, 2014, 02:17:30 PM
Thanks Andrew, Swarf, BOE  :beer:

I bought a sheet of pegboard the other day, and it's started snowing again, so I figured I'd better cut it up and get it inside. It's "tempered" which means water resistant, but I don't like to get it wet for long anyway.

I'm looking forward to working inside one of these days!  :loco:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed22.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 21, 2014, 02:23:57 PM
I ripped up some 1-1/2" square strips from 2 by material to hang the pegboard from. And I used a Ramset nailer to attach the cleats to the concrete block walls. These use a .22 charge to propel a hardened nail into the block.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed23.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 21, 2014, 02:28:53 PM
Pegboard up.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed24.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 21, 2014, 02:33:24 PM
And a view of the shop as it stands so far. I still have to photograph from outside to get it all in the picture!

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed25.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: krv3000 on December 21, 2014, 04:43:46 PM
ooo nice
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on December 21, 2014, 05:39:11 PM
Looking good Steve  :bow:

I have one of those Ramset guns, and when I first got it (perhaps 20 years ago)tried fixing a batten to a blockwork wall. The nail went right through, travelled 8 foot, went through the control enclosure of my Moog Hydrapoint 1000  NC machine, and penetrated a 24 volt power supply righting off the transformer  :bugeye:

Since then I've treated it with caution  :lol:

Last time I used (couple of years ago) it was to fix battens to the steel Universal Beams of my barn. It had no problem pushing a nail through a 6 mm web of the beam, but highly effective. Quite a kick though, my wrist hurt for days  :bang:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 21, 2014, 05:55:35 PM
  :lol: Holy tamale, Andrew, you think maybe you used too high a number charge?

Sorry, it's not funny, really -- I imagine that must have shook you up! Not to mention irritated you about the CNC machine!

Stuff like that, that's when I usually start using some choice swear words about myself.  :bang: :bang:

I use a #2 or #1 (green or brown) with concrete block. I think they go up to #5 (I don't even own anything over a #3).

I always shoot into a center rib or the mortar at a rib with concrete block. And since I built the wall, I know I'm going through solid. Never had a wall penetration.

Sometimes I don't get a full bury, but then I just hammer it home the old fashioned way. I'd rather under shoot than over!


Never tried it on steel. I know it's done, but seems impossible!

Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 21, 2014, 06:00:37 PM
Thanks, Bob!!! :beer:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on December 21, 2014, 06:52:28 PM
Now I think back I've had three of those type of Ramset guns. First one had an odd trigger made of bent and twisted steel (by design) and I kept catching my finger on it when it fired. Put it on eBay and it was bought by a chap in Northrrn Ireland. Problem was I'd advertised it complete with ammunition and the 'troubles' were on at the time, I was concerned who might have been the purchaser, but he was just a builder it turned out. Next pair were of a later and better design, one complete, the other a basket case!

I certainly treat them with respect!
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 21, 2014, 06:58:04 PM
Mine doesn't have a trigger. You have to press it against the workpiece hard enough to disengage the internal spring loaded safety, and then hammer the end of it, like a big nail-set.  Is that how your newer ones work, Andrew?
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 22, 2014, 05:01:49 PM
I managed to put away a lot of the tools I was using to build the shop and shift other items to storage. This uncovered my Gingery lathe, which had suffered a lot in storage. I decided to take another break from construction and clean it up to get an idea how bad the rust was. Here's what it looked like before cleaning:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed26.jpg)

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed27.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 22, 2014, 05:16:46 PM
But a little kerosene and a brush, and a clean with some rags showed that what I thought was rust, was mainly grime and old oil, and the lathe looks pretty good except for some minor spots -- I'll probably deal with those using some spot eletctrolysis pad cleaning with washing soda and water. There is far less rust than there was on the drill press and vises. The only real spot needing treatment is a small bit of surface rust behind the tailstock.

Quite happy about this -- it has really been bothering me seeing the state the Gingery lathe had fallen into these past few years in storage. Now it's rescued and will be used!  :ddb:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed28.jpg)






Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 22, 2014, 05:22:58 PM
The lathe is located on the right side bench, which needs more work -- it will be extended wider, covered wth hardboard, and will receive probably shelves under, rather than drawers this time, so I can store metal stock and hand power tools.

I also want to make a different (sturdier) mount for the lathe, and move the motor, so the whole package is narrower.

I did manage to get some construction work done after all. I put up pegboard on this side of the shop, too. To do it, I had to move wiring and an outlet (not finished yet, but temporarily usable).

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed29.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 22, 2014, 05:30:57 PM
This is the latest state of the shop, as I left today -- view from the door. You can't see the left hand wall pegboard with tools shown earlier.

Two 8' benches, 32 sq ft of pegboard, and 15 drawers, so far.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed30.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on December 22, 2014, 05:38:07 PM
Excellent Steve - you'll be able to lock yourself away over Christmas, make it nice & warm & cosy and get on with those outstanding projects  :lol:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 23, 2014, 10:03:07 AM
Well, Andrew, very happy to enjoy Christmas with the family. But a shop seems like a present, itself. I don't need anything else! Definitely jonesing to start a silly pipe engine (or 3) so that thread challenge doesn't look so academic!

I know I have to finish the second bench, but with the lathe cleaned up some, it's so tempting to connect a power cord chuck some metal up. It's been 7 years since it was run last. But if I do, the bench will never be finished -- I know myself. Must resist!!!!  :wack:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: PekkaNF on December 23, 2014, 11:24:56 AM
Your shop looks really nice and cosy. I can imagine how much it took effort and restrain....I'm trough four iterations on my shop and mine is a lot less organized, but I can fit all in now and even work.

I envy your bench space.

Pekka
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: backofanenvelope on December 23, 2014, 04:38:13 PM
and I'm looking forward to some Gingery use  :D  :beer:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: DavidA on December 24, 2014, 01:38:07 PM
VT,

Plug in that lathe and you will never get the other bench done.  Resist!

I spent some time in my small warm workshop last night . Need to get the red lathe properly bolted down and a more appropriate drive system sorted out.  It was nice not to have to put on an extra layer of clothing.

Dave.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 24, 2014, 02:34:08 PM
I actually used the tiny shop today David. My wife dropped her digital cooking thermometer into a bucket of water and said it stopped working. With the prospect of Christmas eve dinner either over or under done I sprang into action! :whip:

Moved my pencil soldering station into the shop, donned magnifying glasses, and surveyed the wreckage. Battery had leaked and there was some rust and corrosion. Two wires to the sensor were corroded loose from the PC board. Pretty clear the trouble started well before the bucket incident today.

I brushed the corrosion out with a small paintbrush, found the two lands where the wires must have come, and soldered them back in place. I got rid of the leaked battery, an AG13, and found a replacement alkaline button in my junk box (wrong type, but this was an emergency!) and shoved it into the holder. It worked! :ddb:

The tiny shop was warm -- a small electric oil-filled radiator heats it nicely -- well lit, and plenty of bench space. Very nice.  :)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 27, 2014, 12:40:25 AM
Oh man I came close to giving in to temptation today to find a power cord for the lathe motor and fire it up, but changed my mind (thanks to the steadying influence here on MM) to do the right thing -- and work on the right hand bench.

So I scooched that one away from the wall, cut out a backing sheet of plywood, screwed that in place. Made 3 divider panels (only half height, this time, since I want space under to slide in plastic bins of greensand for casting).

I attached those panels, but didn't add 3/4" square drawer slides like I did last time, since they will carry shelves rather than drawers, and I wasn't sure how deep I wanted them yet. But with back panel and dividers in place, I could move the bench back to the wall permanently, and finish the top.

This bench is lower and will be wider than the left side bench. The shed door is offset, so a wider bench is possible. I added a 2x8" to the 2x4"s on the top to widen it further. This had to be cut back, in way of the chimney. I did that, and fastened it down, and called it quits for the day.

Like the other bench, this one will be covered with 1/4" hardboard, screwed down, so it can be replaced if it gets too beat up and ratty, some day. One sheet will more than cover both benches.

I'm getting close to being able to fasten down the lathe on the bench, and move the motor to narrow the footprint. And after that, metal work again!
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: backofanenvelope on December 27, 2014, 03:56:48 AM
Glad to hear you saved the Christmas Dinner! Looking forward to seeing some pics of the Lathe being put to good use and I like the fact you have made so much space in no space. Having recently been introduced to the tiny house and small scale living ideas I think that future plans for my own space could have a compact workshop.

Thanks
TomC
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 27, 2014, 05:15:05 PM
Tom,  thanks!

I did work on the lathe a little today, to make it narrower.  The motor is mounted in back of the bracket as shown. And that extends the width of the lathe, and requires a really wide bench top.

This bracket has an over-center lock. By pulling the handle forward, the lathe change belt is disengaged from the spindle. The motor is on the bracket to maintain tension with the jackshaft, no matter what position. My earlier thought was to move the motor higher on the mounting bracket and nearer to the handle, to get it away from the back of the handle.

Here you can see it against the back wall on the right hand bench.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed31.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 27, 2014, 05:26:23 PM
But today I realized that because of the motion of the bracket, it also moves the jackshaft closer to the base when you release the lathe spindle. And when you tighten the belt again, it moves the jackshaft away from the base.

So if I mounted the motor on the base, it could tighten its own belt on the jackshaft pulley at the same time the lathe spindle pulley tightened.

In other words it would be a double clutch action instead of a single, and the jackshaft would stop when the handle was pulled forward along with the lathe pulley.

And I also thought that if I raised the bracket up, I might be able to find a position where I could re-use both belts. Here I was testing the height with some scrap blocks and the motor position needed to get both belts to work with this idea.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed32.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 27, 2014, 05:34:27 PM
There was a position where it all worked, and I bolted and glued the spacer blocks down to the base, and bolted the motor down. This should also stiffen the area between the bracket and the lathe headstock. It has made about a 5 " difference in the width of the footprint. In fact I could probably reduce it another 2" by trimming the back edge of the mounting board, since the blocks are that far inboard, and the motor is, also. The lathe now fits well on the bench top.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed33.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 27, 2014, 05:38:42 PM
And finally for today, here's a shot of the handle being moved part of the way forward. Both the lathe and the jackshaft disconnect from the motor this way.

Another possible advantage of the new setup is that the motor and jackshaft could also now have a couple of different size pulleys, for another speed range, since the belt now slacks to allow changing the motor belt position.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed34.jpg)


ps. I will be making a housing for the motor.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: tom osselton on December 27, 2014, 08:44:10 PM
Looking good! I was just wondering if you could switch the pulleys around so the motor is behind the chuck and not in the swarf zone.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 27, 2014, 08:58:16 PM
You could, Tom, but then the footprint would be longer. I'll be making a motor enclosure for this particular configuration.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: SwarfnStuff on December 28, 2014, 12:09:36 AM
Yep, A motor enclosure is an extremely good next move. Too many sparks otherwise - at least till things blew up.  :zap:  Does the motor have a cooling fan someplace? I can't tell from the Pictures. You could fit one on the shaft by the looks even with a second pulley I think.
Good job moving the motor and finding just the right spot for belt loosening, etc.
John B
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 28, 2014, 12:16:20 AM
Yup, John, the motor does have a fan. I've got the sheet metal for the enclosure all ready. Might do that tomorrow if I have time -- we're supposed to visit friends in the morning.  :beer:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 28, 2014, 09:18:57 PM
From a former piece of ductwork:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed35.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 28, 2014, 09:21:16 PM
I laid out the shape for one of the housing pieces and notched it:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed36.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 28, 2014, 09:23:17 PM
I don't have a bending brake, so I used two pieces of angle iron clamped in the new bench's vise:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed37.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 28, 2014, 09:56:06 PM
Some gentle tapping with a soft hammer while applying pressure by hand folds it flat:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed38.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 28, 2014, 09:57:48 PM
Edges done, now folding the bottom flange:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed39.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 28, 2014, 10:01:54 PM
Bottom flanges done, now folding the corners. I used a piece of pine offcut from the drawer slides. Hardwood would have been preferable as a permanent addition to a new "bending tool" collection, but the pine served....

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed40.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 28, 2014, 10:04:03 PM
Trying the cover piece in position:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed41.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 28, 2014, 10:07:37 PM
Tomorrow I will bend up the inside baffles for the ends.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed42.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: SwarfnStuff on December 29, 2014, 12:30:30 AM
Great bending job, Now if I can just drag your, "Bending Brake" method and parts out of me dandruff sometime in the future - when I need to do something similar. All will be well. Trouble with getting old is not that we get forgetful but it's just that we have so much information stored in the old grey matter the retrieval system takes time to search the records. (At least that's my excuse.)   :coffee:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: CrazyModder on December 29, 2014, 10:58:30 AM
Very nice job, indeed.

Incidently, I made a similar bending project a few days ago. I spent maybe 1.5 days planning, sourcing and building a bender first (the DIY type where you bolt down some heavy duty L profiles to the bench).

Long story short - it worked, kind of, but in the end it was just too much of a hassle and not flexible enough (no pun intended). In my desperation, I ended up doing it just like you, in a vice. That way, the whole bending was done with in about 30 minutes and turned out very fine. Wish I had seen your photos before wasting those 1.5 days. :)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 29, 2014, 11:05:14 AM
Crazy, I was just thinking about inlaying a section of angle iron in the bench edge with tapped holes to accept a second piece for bending sheet metal  :)  -- is that what you had tried?

BTW the angle iron in the vise wasn't ideal -- mainly because angle iron has an inside corner fillet, so it makes aligning the work and two irons difficult. You have to align things above the jaws, not resting on them. Takes 3 hands!

I think I might attach a padding strip of steel to the inside face of the angle iron to pad it out past the radius. Then the iron can rest on the jaws and align automatically. Or you could mill out the radius. But shifting things around for a minute or so worked okay for this job, lacking better facilities.

Swarf, I definitely know what you mean!  :doh:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on December 29, 2014, 11:35:53 AM
Before I got a folder I just used a pair of angle  irons, with a series of holes in them as alternative places to bolt them together for varying sheet lengths. Technique was to pinch the sheet between them then hold the assembly in the vice and perform the bend by hand / softwood block like Steve did. In fact I think that those angle irons are still laying about in my stock area come to think about it!
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: CrazyModder on December 29, 2014, 03:28:58 PM
EDIT: oops, that got rather long, sorry for hijacking your topic. :)

Crazy, I was just thinking about inlaying a section of angle iron in the bench edge with tapped holes to accept a second piece for bending sheet metal  :)  -- is that what you had tried?

I can't take a good photo now, but here's one that accidently shows part of my solution.

On top of the work, there goes another angle iron. Pressure is applied by a sturdy piece of stock and two threaded rods which go through holes in the table (one of which is visible). The angle iron dangling off the table is then pulled up, which does not take much force and  is easily done by hand for the sheet thickness you see on that image (0.75mm). I did not pay attention to the the round edges of the angle irons when buying them, and actually had to mil down the lip of the angle that presses down on the work. I also milled recesses for the hinge-joints to move the active plane of the angle iron more into center (sorry, I think my foreign language skills are breaking down right now :) ) but could not be bothered to make that completely perfect.

Test pieces could be bent very well.

Setting up is time consuming though, since there are no stops of any kind, and much trial and error. I could live with that, but unfortunately, the whole solution quite suddenly stops working at all when you consider works of different length and with bits protruding on the side of the currently bent area.

Well, live and learn; the box on the image was then bent with your method, easy enough.




Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: DavidA on December 30, 2014, 07:23:56 AM
VT,

Just been looking at the pictures of your pulley assembly.  It's sort of similar to what I have for my red lathe. But I am a bit puzzled.
You mention an over-centre device, presumably to lock it in position,  but I don't see it.

Just how does it work.

I know, I know, Must be thick as a brick. Put it down to the cold weather.

Dave. :doh:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on December 30, 2014, 08:38:46 AM
No problem David, it's not obvious at all from those pix.  I'll post some photos this evening. But It's straight out of David Gingery's little paperback on building the lathe.

You pull the handle forward to unlock and change belts, push it back to lock and tension belts. There's a small pair of links that do the over-center trick.

It's extremely handy having a clutch on the spindle at times, and that along with the crank on the leadscrew are two things I missed greatly when I started using the Craftsman 12" lathe after the Gingery. I found the rack and pinion traverse on the Craftsman very clumsy -- it isn't fast enough when you want to move the carriage out of the way -- especially on a long bed, and too coarse (fast) to put on a fine cut. It doesn't do either thing well.

The Gingery lathe handles fast traverse by simply unlocking the half nut and sliding the carriage by hand along the ways. This is easy and fast on a small lathe -- just like sliding the tailstock. Once you engage the half nut, you have a nice 16 to 1 turn rate on the leadscrew crank, which can give you an easily controlled fine cut. Sometimes cruder is better!
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on January 07, 2015, 01:43:19 PM
The shop has been very usable in the cold weather so far, but tomorrow will be a real test. We have -26C predicted tonight with winds up to 30 kmh, wind chill as low as -32 C. Not unusual for this time of year, but I'm definitely looking forward to warmer weather!

Looking at my last post, I promised to get a picture of the over-center drive lock -- which I forgot to do. Sorry, will do that this evening. And give you a climate report inside the tiny shed!
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: DavidA on January 07, 2015, 07:11:11 PM
Just hoping that the predicted winds (70 - 100 mph,  probably neared 70 where I live)  over the next couple of days don't damage my shed or greenhouse.

Dave.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on January 07, 2015, 09:18:47 PM
Gee David! I hope you're okay. That's a hurricane!  :( :( :(

My shop was everything I hoped for today and this evening. a small electric oil filled radiator on a timer kept it comfortable for working, and I was just a few steps away from the house. My wife calls it my bunker.  :poke:

Here are the promised photos:

The over-center link in the closed position:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/OverCenterLink1.jpg)

What it looks like on the inside while closed. The two horizontal pieces butt against each other when the link is closed:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/OverCenterLink2.jpg)

And what it looks like opened:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/OverCenterLink3.jpg)

There's a nice snapping action when it closes.

The motor frame was riveted together with simple headed-over pieces of 1/8" rod.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: DavidA on January 08, 2015, 06:39:54 AM
Thanks for the pictures.  Ingenious.

I haven't been in the shed (either one) for the last couple of days. But I need to get in the big one and move the Denford lathe to it final position.  This will require the use of crow bar and rollers.

The bad weather is due to start showing itself late today or tomorrow. We seem to be getting a lot more high winds than we use to. Gusting 50 to 60 mph is becoming common.

Not much we can do about it.

Dave.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 12, 2015, 12:52:17 PM
The need to cast pulleys for a new Gingery lathe modification, means I need casting capability in the new tiny shop. This is qoing to be quite a challenge this time of year!

I located and started to dig out my bin full of aluminum greensand as a first step:

That's a 3 foot tall green table on the left with 3 feet of snow on top of it. The end of the bin I want is the green square buried in the snow, to the right!

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/CastingTiny1.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 12, 2015, 01:00:30 PM
Free at last! Dragging over the snow to the tiny shop....

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/CastingTiny2.jpg)

When I finally got it indoors, and opened the lid, I was encouraged to find the molding sand had dried out completely -- meaning I wouldn't have to defrost it -- just re-temper it with water. Ordinarily that would have been a pain, but in this case I was glad not to have to deal with a solid block of frozen sand!
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 12, 2015, 01:25:55 PM
I was going to re-temper the sand this afternoon, but checking the weather I decided to wait a week, unless I figure out some way to keep it warm overnight in the shop. We have coming what the weatherman has called "the most robust arctic surge of the season" through Tuesday -- sounds like this already difficult winter is about to get even worse with high winds and sub zero (F) temps. Maybe adding water isn't a good idea at this point!!!
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on February 12, 2015, 02:03:21 PM
Water and antifreeze ?
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: Will_D on February 12, 2015, 05:16:07 PM
Before casting have a look at this re. MDF pulleys:

BTW: It is Gingery related :clap:

http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,10444.0.html (http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,10444.0.html)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 12, 2015, 07:10:29 PM
Andrew, do you mean for tempering? I just wouldn't want to do that.  I was thinking more in the line of a heat tape buried in the sand, light bulb, insulated cooler, etc. as we mentioned before here, I think.

Will, thanks, I'll answer there on the lathe thread.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on February 13, 2015, 03:34:07 AM
Yes I meant for tempering. It's basically ethylene glycol which won't affect the casting in the required proportions - or if you want to go eco safer use propylene glycol, which is the 'food grade'. I happen to have several 205 litre drums of diluted propylene glycol. When I dismantled my induction furnace before coming here, I pumped out all the coolant as it's not cheap, and brought it with me.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: RussellT on February 13, 2015, 05:15:40 AM
Wouldn't glycol burn during the casting process?

I would have thought that salt might be a better antifreeze. Using excess salt would ensure that you always had a saturated solution and the salt crystals shouldn't do any harm.  That would protect down to -21C (or -5F) which might not be low enough for Vermont.

Russell
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on February 13, 2015, 07:20:48 AM
I'm sure some will Russell, but think of Petrobond type oil sands that specifically add hydrocarbons for a bond. Only the tiny bit close to the surface actually is burnt, and the products of combustion form a gas shield.

Coal dust used to be added to sand for iron casting to improve surface finish. The coal burnt producing gases that again formed a shield and not only protected the sand but averaged out the surface finish.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 13, 2015, 08:22:53 AM
I sent for one of these heaters to try out:

http://www.amazon.com/Hydor-50w-Hydrokable-Substrate-Heater/dp/B0006JLPGS

Think I'll test it over a day, checking temps (without a thermostat) first. If it's sufficient to defrost and not too warm,
I'd like to use a 24 hour timer. Then I'd just hit the timer the night before I want to cast.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 13, 2015, 11:51:06 AM
Guys, I don't know about the properties of antifreeze exposed in a mold to 1100 deg F aluminum, or the effects of salt and or glycol on molding sand physical properties, but one thing I do know: the last thing I want to do is dip my hands into a tub of subfreezing molding sand laced with antifreeze or salt to fill and ram a flask!

I'll take warm clean classically tempered sand any day, and I have a feeling a sub freezing chilled mold would exaggerate casting difficulties as well. Handling properly tempered sand is a pleasure itself.

For winter casting, heat has it all over chemicals in this tiny shop!
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: mattinker on February 13, 2015, 01:28:20 PM
I'm not a chemist, but a ceramist friend of mine warned against heating common salt as chlorine gas can be produced!

Regards, Matthew
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: JohnHaine on February 16, 2015, 02:33:16 PM
Matt, as salt is used in molten form for heat treating, I don't actually think this can be true.  Chlorine and sodium are two of the most reactive things around, it will take a lot to persuade them to dissociate.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: Swarfing on February 16, 2015, 02:57:03 PM
Line a container with thick straw, put your sand box inside and cover with more straw and a lid.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: mattinker on February 16, 2015, 05:31:58 PM
Matt, as salt is used in molten form for heat treating, I don't actually think this can be true.  Chlorine and sodium are two of the most reactive things around, it will take a lot to persuade them to dissociate.

The friend who told me about this is no longer with us so I can't ask him, he died of other, natural causes.

Salt Glazing

This process involves throwing wet salt (sodium chloride) into the heated kiln while the bisque ware is being fired. Wet salt at high temperatures decomposed to sodium and chlorine. The sodium reacts with the bisque ware to form a glaze. Large amounts of hydrogen chloride gas and possibly chlorine are also formed.

This is a quote from lower down the page.

 http://www.baylor.edu/ehs/index.php?id=94374

regards, Matthew.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 17, 2015, 06:00:08 PM
The 50 watt Hydrokable just arrived by post and I've got it burried in my tub of greensand to give it a test. It's a good test considering the low temps right now!  :borg:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 17, 2015, 09:43:54 PM
The test went well after about 3-1/2 hours. The sand was cool, but not cold, though there was some unmelted snow on the concrete floor of the shop, meaning subfreezing temps down at floor level. There were a few warm spots in the sand, too -- I hadn't buried the cable evenly some stuck out above the surface -- the bin is only half full of sand and the cable is 20 feet long.

Also it's dry sand right now so heat doesn't spread as easily. I didn't want to temper it with water until I had the heat cable to work with. Tough to warm up a big frozen block without some heat running through it!

I unplugged the heater. I don't want to run it overnight yet. Tomorrow morning I'll temper the sand and check how well that works with the cable. Then we'll let it freeze and find out how long it takes to thaw.

The bin is uninsulated at this point, but if needed I can add that, too. Looks good though without, so far.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 18, 2015, 10:58:40 PM
I tempered the sand today and it sure is great to have good molding sand again. I just really enjoy that stuff when it's right. Cable in place. Letting it freeze overnight. Tomorrow we'll see how well it defrosts.

I also cut the top off of a 30 lb propane tank -- a little taller than the usual 20 lb tank. Cleaned it out to make a new melting furnace for the tiny shop, to fit under the bench. I need it now to cast my new lathe pulley.

I was going to go against my usual grain, and actually buy the expensive stuff for refractory -- cerrablanket, and zircon rigidizer per Ironman's style small propane furnace. But U.S. BS manufacturing distribution systems struck again!  :bang:

I wrote to the only company I could find here that offered zircon rigidizer, naturally you had to write to their factory sales rep to inquire where to obtain it and how expensive a pint of that stuff would be (it does come in individual pints, so I can imagine it must be pricey!).

I received a note back from sales rep. "David" today asking what my purpose was. So I replied to that, saying a small metal melting furnace, propane powered, fiber blanket refractory, about 4 square feet exposed needing rigidizer. He wrote back that I shouldn't use their product in my application. No price given, no availabiltiy info.

So I said the hell with it -- this is why I like making things from locally available materials. Otherwise you can't just do what you want to do AS AN EXPERIMENT. If you go the high tech refractory route, you gotta face a bunch of industrial salespeople of limited imagination questioning your intent and your quaiifications to obtain their product.

I can go to my local hardware store and buy a chainsaw, some Drano, and a can of acetone, and NOBODY asks me what my intent and usage are, or what my business name is. They figure I know what I want to do with it, and that's enough. They also put prices on things, instead of asking you to contact them to inquire.

For heaven's sakes how do manufacturers like this zircon outfit think that most of the industries (including their own, no doubt) begin? A vast number have begun based on an individual's ideas, and invention. Luckily their founders 100 years ago weren't blocked from obtaining small quantities of whatever they needed to make new things because they were individuals.

Anyway, I said the hell with it, went to the hardware store, bought a bag of plaster of Paris and sand, Took an 8" diameter piece of leftover Sonotube, set it as a chamber form in the cutoff propane tank, and poured a lining. Took an hour total. Materials were $19 total with some left over. I'm sure it will melt my aluminum for the pulley. Sheesh..... :doh:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 18, 2015, 11:22:40 PM
Hardware checkout clerk, "Excuse me sir, I see you have several pipe nipples and fittings and a pound of nails. What do you plan on doing with those?"

Me, "Uhhh well I was thinking of making a steam engine out of them....."

Clerk, "I'm sorry sir, we can't sell them to you for that, they're for plumbing. Would you mind putting them back on the shelf?"
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: dsquire on February 18, 2015, 11:58:21 PM
Hi Steve

I hear you. It makes you wonder what some of these companies are thinking. That is one of the reasons I don't watch much news or TV anymore. Every time you do you find something else too piss you off.

Keep plugging away and as Red Green would say "Keep your stick on the Ice"

Cheers  :beer:

Don

 
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: tom osselton on February 19, 2015, 01:30:35 AM
I bought mine at ceramics canada $100.00 per pint but it is diferent from the stuff that iron man uses.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on February 19, 2015, 02:34:36 AM
Steve,

Sodium silicate is often used as a blanket stiffener and binder
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: DavidA on February 19, 2015, 05:41:23 AM
I have been to a couple of places where they refused to sell me parts for my car because I couldn't remember the registration number.

Sodium Silicate (water glass) appears to be readily available on the web. And Wiki states...

 Waterglass is inexpensive and abundantly available, which makes its use popular in many refractory applications...

Dave.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 19, 2015, 09:14:00 AM
Guys, thanks!  :beer:

I do know about sodium silicate, and in fact ironman's furnace uses it as an adhesive for the blankets to the case, so I was planning to buy that, too, but I wanted his design's extremely rapid propane fueled iron melting capability if I was going to spend big money on a very small furnace. I totally trust his experience, and don't want to make changes.

Giving up on iron, I didn't see any reason to use expensive blanket refractories. Aluminum melts in anything.

Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 19, 2015, 04:59:19 PM
The sand is very nice today after a couple hours of the heating cable -- the top is cool but the lower level is actually slightly warm. I suppose I could loosly fit a piece of 1" insulation foam to lay on top of the sand to warm it all the way through and reduce evaporation at the same time.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 20, 2015, 10:28:48 AM
I'm jonesing to start another engine project (actually several I have ideas for) but I'm in the typical Madmodder muddle:

My lathe is now apart and I'm building a furnace to cast some pulleys to accept a poly-vee belt and re-bore the headstock to accept bearings to change a spindle size to be able to accept collets and stiffn the 3 jaw and pass through-stock.

But I'm not building an engine.  :doh:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 23, 2015, 07:57:18 PM
I located and brought into the shop most of my old aluminum casting gear. Though it's making things kind of cramped right now, it's getting me excited about casting again. I bought two bags of charcoal today -- hard to find here in winter, and a couple people made comments while I was carrying the bags out of the store. We might get record cold tonight, according to the weather service, and I suppose it does look nuts.  :loco:

The other problem I have casting is finding a place to do it now. Everything outdoors is covered in feet of snow and ice. So today I started shoveling and chipping away in front of the shop to get down to dirt. I used a 5 foot chisel ended bar. The dirt when I reaached it was frozen, too. I'll get some sand to make a bed to cover it tomorrow. Then a tarp to keep any future snows off of it.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: RobWilson on February 24, 2015, 03:00:00 PM
Looks like you have a bad case of  :proj: Steve  :lol:


Rob  :D
Title: Arctic Pour
Post by: vtsteam on February 24, 2015, 04:54:56 PM
Rob, I just put the Mad in Madmodder alright!

It was the coldest here last night that it has been all winter -26C. And today we warmed up to -11C with a strong wind and being impatient to try the new furnace I naturally decided to go ahead and pour aluminum!  :headbang:

I wasn't ready to mold with greensand, but found an old lost foam pattern I'd made and never used -- from last summer. It was difficult casting back then (6mm wall thickness) and probably burying it in sub zero sand and pouring at these temps was pointless, but it was a good excuse to make fire in my furnace in all that snow and ice and give a certain arm gesture to winter!

Camera's battery is charging now (doesn't like the cold either and quit!) but I'm hoping the photos are okay -- we'll see shortly!
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: CrazyModder on February 24, 2015, 05:40:55 PM
 :worthless:

I clearly remember the first day of this winter, when I had my mold *just* right, the coal glowing happily, and it started to snow. I admit, my sense of security was wobbling a bit at the moment (what with water and molten metal and all that), but it turned out fine after all. The next day, the oven was nowhere to be found under all the snow - so, just in time.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 24, 2015, 07:18:52 PM
It's here, Crazy:

http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,10482.0.html

 :beer:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 26, 2015, 01:49:26 PM
I worked a little on the pulley pattern -- mainly just relieved the back some so the casting wouldn't be as heavy there. The core prints are removable so I can core for different shaft bores. Also so I won't have to put a hole in the molding board.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/PulleyBack.jpg)
(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/PulleyFront.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: RobWilson on February 26, 2015, 02:44:01 PM
I worked a little on the pulley pattern -- mainly just relieved the back some so the casting wouldn't be as heavy there. The core prints are removable so I can core for different shaft bores. Also so I won't have to put a hole in the molding board.




A good bit of forward thinking there Steve  :thumbup:   What grade of brown stuff did you turn the pattern from ? 


Rob  :wave:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 26, 2015, 03:36:34 PM
Just plain old eastern white pine, Rob, cut here on the property on my mill. It works easy and I know what the weight proportion is to aluminum from practice, so I can just weigh the pattern to know how much metal to melt.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 26, 2015, 05:21:39 PM
With core prints in place:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/PulleywPrints.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: RobWilson on February 27, 2015, 02:07:47 PM
 :thumbup: Steve ,


Looks like there will be some casting on the old  homestead this weekend  :)




Rob
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 27, 2015, 02:30:03 PM
I hope so, Rob, the cold is so wearing. We had 1 day in the last 4 weeks when the high creeped a couple degrees above freezing. I just don't know if it makes sense to even try casting. We'll see -- we're supposed to top out around freezing early next week. That will seem like a heat wave.

Today I decided to make some new wooden flasks -- I badly burned my old ones (used for aluminum) when I first tried cast iron. Later made steel flasks for CI, but they're shallow and heavy for this casting.

If you look at the pulley pattern and how it tapers, it wants to be molded with the wide end uppermost in the drag. Which would mean gating into the rim, or a sprue directly on the inner boss -- but that has a core in the center.  Plus, that's quite a drop for the aluminum to the bottom of the cavity. I'm thinking the walls might wash out.

I was thinking, I wish I could gate in to the bottom of the cavity -- the small end. But that can't be on the parting line, which has to be at the big end, or you wouldn't be able to draw the pattern.

Then I hit on the idea of making a flask exactly the same height as the pulley body, and make a triple layer flask with the pattern in the middle. I could then have access to either end, Sprue down, and gate in to the bottom/small end, and put a riser on top to keep the hub full.

Maybe connect to the rim, too -- I guess it depends where I get a shrink cavity (if I do). First cast is likely to have problems, especially with cold sand.

Probably do multiple MadModder dancy bannana guys if it works first pour..... :lol:

Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: RobWilson on February 27, 2015, 03:21:26 PM
Hi Steve

Why not bottom gate the mould  or try a horn gate  , I have been meaning to give the latter ago some day .  :dremel:

Or as you said using a Cheek ( a flask that goes between the cope and drag ) is another  good  way   :thumbup:


Hope the weather breaks for you soon  :D , and yes the  :ddb: dance is required  :lol:

Rob   
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 27, 2015, 03:44:51 PM
A horn gate, Rob, I had to look that one up! Of course online I got a bunch of automatically opening driveway gates,  :) But eventually found a definition, no pic. And it's just like it sounds, shaped like a cow's horn I guess.

I'm assuming you ram it in place with the pattern, and then draw it in a circular pull, rather than try to insert it in an already rammed flask like you would a sprue cutter.

Well that would be an interesting tool to make. I'd probably bandsaw it out 4 sided and then work it down by hand.

I don't suppose they used actual cow horns in the good olde days, did they?
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: RobWilson on February 27, 2015, 04:26:57 PM
Yer you got it Steve  :thumbup:

Just like a cows horn , rammed in place as you say . Have a look in the USA navy foundry manual  :thumbup: http://www.hnsa.org/resources/manuals-documents/single-topic/foundry-manual/


Quote
I don't suppose they used actual cow horns in the good olde days, did they?

Its a possibility ,exactly the right shape off the shelf head  :palm:


Rob 
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on February 27, 2015, 05:27:12 PM
They 'ain't uniform in shape you know  :lol:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 27, 2015, 05:38:18 PM
This is Holstein country.......but I never spent much time checking out horns. I try not to lower my head to stare close up at anything like that, no matter how seemingly mild mannered. Well, ever since I tried it when I was 6 years old at the neighbors ram. No horns, just bumps but I remember seeing shooting stars right after!
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: Manxmodder on February 27, 2015, 09:38:47 PM
They 'ain't uniform in shape you know  :lol:

I've never seen a Unicorn with anything but a straight horn,seems fairly uniform for a Unicorn.....OZ.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: PekkaNF on February 28, 2015, 02:52:40 AM
I have done very little casting but always wanted to. More I read, more I'm convinced that i need to start from low tempreture stuff. But I read and try to learn.

But you guys! Sometimes I don't know if you are talkking real utensils, parts, methods, tools or just joking and mixing parts of s-type minoritties. Unicorns and cowcorns :lol:

But keep it on rolling, I finally get it when a leg getts pulled.

Pekka
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 28, 2015, 09:25:45 AM
Well Pekka, the truthful part is I want to get the metal coming in at the bottom of the mold cavity, but using simple molding methods with this shape pattern, that area is inacessible. So one possible method of getting a passage for the metal to that point is to bury a horn shaped plug with the point down, at the spot where the metal needs to go, and then pull it out after the sand is rammed in place. Because it is both curved and tapered, it should come loose without disturbing the sand, and give a passage that you can pour into from above, and which chokes down to a small opening at the side and bottom of the mold cavity.

Does that make more sense?

Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: Manxmodder on February 28, 2015, 09:52:14 AM
Steve,it is a real possibility that real horns may have been used at some time,just considering the fact that horn is easily whittled and sanded smooth and it is also easily shaped by heating and bending.
It therefore may not be such a silly idea after all.....OZ.
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 28, 2015, 10:18:39 AM
Yup, that's what I was thinking  :thumbup:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on February 28, 2015, 10:20:58 AM
But, I've already made the cheek flask the same height as the pattern, so a horn sprue will have to wait for another project!  :beer:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on March 07, 2015, 10:00:10 PM
I didn't have enough time for doing much today, so decided to paint one of the two pegboard panels in the shop white. The walls were originally white, but after putting the dark brown peg panels up, I've been squinting a lot more! John Sevenson's mention in the sander thread reminded me that painting them was a gonna-do that maybe ought to be done-done. So i found an old gallon can of off white buried in closet in the house with about a pint of thickened paint in it -- why we were saving that I don't know, but perfect opportunity to kill two birds with one stone! A little water and it loosened up, and I removed the tools, painted, put them back and we're half way there.

It does make a big difference in seeing things. Looking forward to doing the other side, and probably the galvanized metal ceiling, too.

I had kind of noticed the machining pics I took were brownish. Must have been reflected light from the pegboard. Wonder if they'll be brighter colors now?
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: dsquire on March 07, 2015, 10:17:55 PM
Steve

You can't get too much white in your worksop. Especially if you are paying the electric bill and/or you are taking photo's.   :) :)

Now you have officialy got your spring cleaning started.  :lol: :lol: :lol:

Cheers  :beer:

Don
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: Will_D on March 08, 2015, 06:03:10 AM
Re Painting pegborads:

Sarted to layout all the tools and bits that came with the new mill.

Black tools on black pegboard - not a good idea.

So painted the boads white No Brainer.

Also the strip lights in the shop are fairly old warm white. They should be called Wornout White.

Got three new 5' Cool White strips and starters for 18 and when fitted gained one extra stop on the camera.

Thats nearly twice the amount of light
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on March 10, 2015, 08:17:17 PM
Will, it definitely makes a difference

After painting the pegboard on the left side:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed43.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on March 10, 2015, 08:18:07 PM
And then I painted the masonite of the top of the bench as well:

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/Shed44.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on June 27, 2017, 02:51:15 PM
It's been a little over two years since I posted anything in this thread, but today I finally tackled something that has been bugging me all that time -- no handles on the drawers. One of those small jobs I just never seemed to get around to. Today, anticipating working on my lathe project, and wanting to organize the mess that the shop had become after working on the cistern for two summers, I decided that the first order of the day was going to be making and installing the 15 drawer handles I needed.

I used the old Gingery handle design of a wedge shaped wooden bar. Some scrap cherry, run through the table saw with the blade set to about 7-1/2 degrees -- ripping first, then chopping the ends at the same taper yielded a small box full of handle stock. Then I drilled and countersunk the wide face for screws.

Handles, done.

(http://www.vtsteam.com/Shop/DrawerHandles.jpg)
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: awemawson on June 27, 2017, 04:15:50 PM
Good to see you back in making mode Steve. I hope things in the workshop haven't deteriorated too much during your absence
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on June 28, 2017, 07:13:26 PM
Thanks Andrew!

Nothing too bad in the shop. The new lathe doesn't look as shiny as it did, but we'll spiff it up as we go along.  :beer:
Title: Re: Working on a new tiny shop
Post by: vtsteam on January 15, 2018, 11:51:02 PM
Photos restored after Photobucket broke the links.