Author Topic: Miniatyre portable smoke machine - green smoke?  (Read 1758 times)

Offline PekkaNF

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Miniatyre portable smoke machine - green smoke?
« on: May 29, 2019, 02:19:05 PM »
Daughter needs green smoke from prop "gun" for animecon type event.





Threfore:
* Safe, no obnoxious chemicals or pyrotechnics.
* Portable, battery operated.
* few second bursts of smoke from a trigger pull, no need for room filling amount of smoke, but 2 metre long "plume" would be ideal.
* Least 10 plumes before "reloading".

Thinking of something like this and a coaxial green light:


After watching it few times, I realize there are few hitches....

Suggestions?

Thank you

Offline Pete49

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Re: Miniatyre portable smoke machine - green smoke?
« Reply #1 on: May 30, 2019, 12:40:28 AM »
How about incorporating a green low powered laser in it or a green led?
oops..........oh no.........blast now I need to redo it

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Miniatyre portable smoke machine - green smoke?
« Reply #2 on: May 30, 2019, 04:13:52 AM »
Something like that.

I tested last night wide beam laser (50mW, 16 mm beam width), have to test it with a smoke (that I don't have).

I also ordered a angel eye ring led light (something like 1W) to test that too.

The smoke production and fan combination has got me stumped. Mains operated and most portable ones are slow to start. Those  vaping type seems to be fast to start, but very limited on capacity.

I did some search and looks like right amount of smoke would need over 70W, but less than 300W heating and very little of smoke fluid.

Although I can't estimate if vape type few ml smoke fluid reservoir and works would be correct type to start or would winding my own heating coil be the correct way to go.

Those vape thingys has perry much everything ready, but still need work.

Then again DIY heater coil does not sound too complicated (I have done some styrox foam cutting and several controllers), but fast responce means pretty small coils with low resistance and that type buck current mode converters are not too common.

This type falls short:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-300W-20A-CC-CV-Constant-Current-Adjustable-Converter-Step-Down-Voltage-Buck/132536292857?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649

Now I am thinking two different avenues:

1: "Smoke ball" on demand: Vape type fast response and smoke is generated while fan blows it out of the "barel"

2: Pre generated volume of smoke in reservoir and purge with a fan out of barel. This prop has a resrservoir that could be filled with smoke in something like 10 sec and then "blasted" out fastest possible with green light.
* I don't know how long smoke stays good and how that purge would affect on it.
* Probably heating coil would be whole lot less critical with current demand and all, because there is longer time available.

I have no idea, I don't use vape and I don't have a smoke machine.

Pekka

Offline WeldingRod

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Re: Miniatyre portable smoke machine - green smoke?
« Reply #3 on: May 30, 2019, 09:17:04 AM »
I THINK that vaporizing the fluid just needs heat.  Thus, you could have a block with tubing buried in it (or a lot of holes in it), and inject fluid when you needed a lot of smoke.  The thermal mass would give you a high.peak power output without needing a lot of continous power.  It needs insulation, of course, and high thermal conductivity.  You could increase your output by preheating your fluid too.

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Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Miniatyre portable smoke machine - green smoke?
« Reply #4 on: May 30, 2019, 09:28:22 AM »
That is interesting idea. Apparently proper smoking temp is just above 200C and smoke machines use around 250-260C if I have got it right.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/PTC-Aluminum-Ceramic-Heater-12V-80-C-220-C-Hair-Dryer-Curlers-Heating-Element/162507795565?hash=item25d6382c6d:m:mBGQRQuwvZfi_3PjmxYelRQ

PTC Aluminum Ceramic Heater 12V 220C  5-28W, that probably would do it, but probably would need a long time to "preheat"?

What about stacking two and sandwitch a glasfibe mat between them as a wick where a hypodermic needle would introduce the fluid?

Pekka


Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Miniatyre portable smoke machine - green smoke?
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2019, 03:49:13 PM »
Found some nicrome wire home, most promising is N70 OD 0,83 mm 2,2 ohm/m.

Found calculator that gives some promising results.
https://www.steam-engine.org/coil.html?mat=n70&r=0.8&dia=0.83&id=10.11&ll=20.1


Offline tom osselton

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Re: Miniatyre portable smoke machine - green smoke?
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2019, 06:14:24 PM »
Couldnt you use a diesel glow plug they heat almost instantly Ive got six on my shelf that I have been thinking about for heating things.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Miniatyre portable smoke machine - green smoke?
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2019, 03:07:08 AM »
Or a Thermostart as used in Diesel engines in the inlet manifold. They have a heater coil AND a small valve that opens letting diesel flow from a small tank which could contain your smoke fluid.
Andrew Mawson
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Offline Will_D

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Re: Miniatyre portable smoke machine - green smoke?
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2019, 05:26:41 PM »
Pekka,

Would these be of interest?

http://www.smokemachines.net/coloured-smoke.shtml

NJoy, Will
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Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Miniatyre portable smoke machine - green smoke?
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2019, 09:09:34 AM »
Thank you,

Tom, Interesting idea, but I think that capacity would be low

Andrew, that actually burns the fuel and therefore would be risky. Have to have a look on one after a week. My father has few old Massey Ferguson 35. maybe there is something to learn.

Will, " UK delivery only." They are pyrotechnics, ok of photography, but not great on public show.
http://www.smokemachines.net/smoke-pellets.shtml

I ahve been strugling to calculating/estimating the proper amount of power and size of the heater coil. Tables show very much lower current to reach the set temperature than calculator above. Have to do a little more reading and then experiment to see how numbers add up to experiment. Unknow is the amount of energy used to evaporate the smoke fluid, test is in order.

Pekka

Offline WeldingRod

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Re: Miniatyre portable smoke machine - green smoke?
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2019, 02:09:24 PM »
You should be able to look up the heat of vaporization for the glop, and go from that to Watts.  The vaporization rate is directly controlled by power input, unless you have stored thermal energy (like a block of hot metal).
For the low mass coils, you've got to pump in power!  But, not dry it if you run out of glop ;-)

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Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Miniatyre portable smoke machine - green smoke?
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2019, 05:43:38 PM »
Very true. Apparently few ml of smoke fluid shoul produce enough smoke. Interesting thing is that those electric cigarets seem to have few ml and small battery.  Apparently there is a wick that inroduces a small amount of smoke fluid to heater coil and that is evaporated instantly. Low mass heats up fast and probably that is the idea with vape. That is one approach here.

Offline Will_D

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Re: Miniatyre portable smoke machine - green smoke?
« Reply #12 on: June 03, 2019, 05:53:04 PM »
Will, " UK delivery only." They are pyrotechnics, ok of photography, but not great on public show.
http://www.smokemachines.net/smoke-pellets.shtml
There has to be thread in the googlverse regarding the chemistry of these coloured smoke  cartridges.

Engineer and Chemist to the NHC.ie
http://www.nationalhomebrewclub.ie/forum/