Moving from Windows 7 to windows 10 - testing 1-2-3

[AdeV]

Brave browser is about the only software I use, that nags about needing to update to W10 before next browser update. So far, for some reason Brave hasn't forced to update itself.
I use it only to watch Youtube videos, as it blocks all bloody annoying ads. In other words - Youtube like it used to be.

Try Opera - it also blocks all those tedious adverts, and it doesn't nag about updating Windows It's also available for Linux, when you decide to make the switch 

[awemawson]

Thanks Ade - I've just downloaded Opera and as you say it makes YouTube 'as it was' !

[sorveltaja]

Thanks Ade - I've just downloaded Opera and as you say it makes YouTube 'as it was' !

I'll second that, thanks!

[sorveltaja]

An update - unfortunately nothing new (yet I hope).

So, after moving not once but twice this spring, I don't have much room to set up tools for machining anymore. Hmm... what to do then?

Well, one thing that doesn't take plenty of room - playing with computer! PC is actually one of the first things I have to get working after moving.

Anyways, I decided to revisit Win10 and see what actually prevented me using it. Yes, major problem is its very limited(or prohibited) ways to modify its gui(graphical user interface).

So far I've ran it in Oracle VM (as I did previously also). It's still the same debloated W10 Ltsc 21H2 image(iso file).

Some free tools that are available to modify gui colors and such - by using them, I just can't get anything that I'd expect.

One big thing that's missing in W10 is the possibility to make active/inactive windows visually separable(although it can be done) - like it was in W7 and W2000/XP and whatever, if that makes sense.

And W10's default font sucks(my personal preference), but it just might be possible to change that. I prefer Tahoma Bold font in window's title bars.

In short, to "7 windowize" W10 gui to utilize it better. As probably mentioned earlier, it has to do with high contrast themes(also known as ease of access for visually impaired) and registry hacks.

I've done some testing, and finally W10 gui colors are closer to what I'm used to with W7. There are some quirks, though. The way that certain colors are used/applied/tied together with other objects in W10 is just weird.

As I've searched and searched on the net for possible solution, eventually I hit the bottom, or so it seems.

There are plenty of options to try out, though. Some are free and some are not.

Basically, just to get taskbar color changed to light gray as a personal preference (RGB 212 208 200), requires something (program or service)  that needs to be started with windows, and which then needs to hang all the time on the background.

One thing that might (not sure at this point) be worth tinkering with is Msstyle editor (which is free). But it has so god damn many 'classes' to go through. And every class has its own sub things called property.

I'm not interested in duplicating Win7 GUI per se, as some do. "All the start menus and 3D buttons have to be exactly like in Win7" - for what - I don't know.

But what I know (although I'm not a pro in any way) is when I'm doing some demanding things (like using several progs at a time, and dozens of windows open), that the screen I'm watching is clear, and not restricted with some dumb things like Win10's restricted color modifiability.

In other words, to forget the Windows, and do the stuff instead, as one Youtuber aptly said.

Bit of a rant, but I guess I'm not alone with this. 

Anyways, hoping to extend my ability to search more about the subject, I started using ChatGPT, as it's free (and I assume it has a large database).

I certainly don't expect it to spew any Microsoft's insider info, but rather looking ways to squeeze something useful out of it, if possible.

[sorveltaja]

Closer - but not quite there yet. There is something called Aero Lite, that's apparently "hidden" in Win10. It can be enabled though, but its default colors aren't that good(like too dark taskbar with black text).

Aerolite.theme -file doesn't seem to be included in W10, so I had to download it from the net.
Well it's always risky to do that, but it's just a text file, and I opened it in notepad in VM to see what's in there.

As I earlier wrote, I tested W10's high contrast themes to edit colors, but what might look ok in desktop, actually messes program's colors also(like Firefox), so I think I'll skip it altogether.

To me, Aero Lite looks better, and has borders on the windows. Modifying at least some of accent colors can be done with AccentPalette.

The end result maybe depends also on default windows- and default app mode(light or dark), havent tested it yet.

As can be seen in the pic, buttons in windows titles doesn't show at all, except on active window, and even then only the 'X' one.

Yeah, although I don't care much about AI, I've used that Chatgpt to ask silly questions about the subject - it doesn't seem to mind at all.

 

[sorveltaja]

One free tool that makes W10 to look like W7 is "Automatic classic theme script for windows 10" at https://winclassic.net/thread/204/automatic-classic-theme-script-windows

It's actually a bat-file, and yes, it does work in changing the GUI, but it's also buggy. For example, after applying it, there is an option to disable it by using the same script, but it doesn't work, or maybe it worked on older versions of W10. Also, it seems to work only in 100% scaling, so text(like under desktop icons) is overall rather small.

It modifies (or breaks) parts of W10's system. Perhaps that's the only way to force W10 to use custom colors, hope not.

But the colors are just spot on. I tried to edit the bat file by removing one portion at a time to consist only color altering registry keys. So far, without success.

It might have something to do with W10's DWM(desktop window manager) and/or other things that prevents further color customizing.

 
 

[sorveltaja]

Just today, while looking possible locations in W10's registry for the colors, I noticed that windows' own registry editor's search doesn't show all the results(if any).

For example, I know that there is a certain value FF994D00 in following keys, when navigating in reg editor, which "are not found":

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\SystemProtectedUserData\S-1-5-21-576976833-1637798910-2310749630-1001\AnyoneRead\Colors
HKEY_USERS\S-1-5-21-576976833-1637798910-2310749630-1001\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Accent

When exporting whole registry, and opened in notepad or whatever, those keys with that data can be found...

One free registry editor, that I'm testing, is 'ooregeditor', and it seems to be able to find 'hidden' keys: https://www.oo-software.com/en/ooregeditor

In some registry keys one has to add/take permission to edit; otherwise it's denied. It's just few steps, and easier than I thought.

While fiddling with different colors and settings, I managed to make W10's inactive title bars red(as it's easier to indicate if something has changed), no matter what theme I used, so I guess I managed to do something that was permanent - what it is, one can only guess, since I used msstyle editor and some other simple tools. I've been trying to reproduce it, but so far nothing.

Last but not least - about color formats used in registry: RGB, ARGB, BGR. And some are in hex form like one mentioned above.

[philf]

You do know that Microsoft are stopping support for Win 10 in 2025!

I'll have to live without updates as my two Win 10 laptops and desktop all fail to meet the minimum requirements for Win 11.

[sorveltaja]

I've been looking for ways to locate the bitmaps used for window buttons(minimize, maximize and close), and it seems they are located in one bitmap in msstyles file.

By using Resource Hacker, one can see, extract and replace the bitmap(s): https://www.angusj.com/resourcehacker/

Yeah, there's a bit of a compromise - one have to use SecureUxTheme to enable third party(or just edited ones) themes: https://github.com/namazso/SecureUxTheme
It is said to be safer to use, as it doesn't modify system files.

Another one, that I haven't used, is UXTheme Patcher: https://uxthemepatcher.com/

Also, if one wants to experiment with windows' aero.msstyles or aerolite.msstyles files, as it's a system file, permission needs to be added to current user. That way the msstyles file can be moved to desktop or other temporary place for editing, because it can't be edited and saved in its original folder. It seems the msstyles file can be edited in its original folder; but only if the edited theme isn't in use.

Apparently there is not much info on the net, of how to interpret msstyles files. It's almost like an occult science, but still there seems to be plenty of people making fancy themes and skins, which they sell. Wonder where they have learned about such things. One place is DeviantArt, but even when registering there, the forum is rather restricted(I guess for new users): https://www.deviantart.com/

I'm not looking for something radical; just to change certain colors, or edit certain bitmaps to achieve that to make W10's gui more usable for old farts like me. 

Little bit of testing - just by editing one msstyles' bitmap, it's possible to make the window buttons to have certain background color, that doesn't change much whether the window is active or inactive. It doesn't seem to affect apps like firefox and system setting, though.

Some colors are somewhat off. Might need more testing with other theme-related settings.

Current result with:

- edited msstyle bitmap,
- one key registry entry for taskbar color
- Accentpalette to change the highlighted window in taskbar(not sure what it's called). It seems to change startmenu color also.

   

[sorveltaja]

You do know that Microsoft are stopping support for Win 10 in 2025!

I'll have to live without updates as my two Win 10 laptops and desktop all fail to meet the minimum requirements for Win 11.

I've tested W11 in VM, and it's very heavy compared to W10. But so is default W10 install.

Any chance of making slimmed down version of W11, and see how it goes?  Probably needless to say, that windows 11 updates would make it heavy again.

It all depends on what Windows features user wants/needs to have.

[sorveltaja]

I played with aerolite.msstyles file, and it has a png file in it called STREAM777.

By coloring different areas, I managed to locate some positions, which appears to hold certain elements' colors.

Right side of the image is blank, and coloring it doesn't seem to have any effect(maybe it does when using themes which use aero.msstyles).
The orbs may be a part of windows animations. Haven't played with them yet, as I usually disable all animations and decorations.

Located colors for elements so far:

 

[sorveltaja]

I think I have a theme, that's still far from being esthetically perfect, but probably will do for testing it in actual W10 installation. But there is one thing - I haven't yet figured how to transfer theme from one W10 instance to another.

Yeah, one can make a theme pack file in W10 using "Save Theme for Sharing", but it doesn't save all the data, that is involved, just the theme -file. Nothing about msstyles files, or harmless registry hacks such as changing window title font to bold Tahoma, and tighten the desktop icons spacing.

I guess it could be achieved by using some kind of automated script, but haven't looked how to do that.

And, about editing msstyles file(s). W10 just doesn't seem to accept certain color combinations to be used in a bitmap, that's located in DWMWindow class(picture in previous post).
Just for fun, I tried using sepia tone("aged newspaper" effect In paint shop pro 8) for it, and nah, title bars were default blue, every time when I applied an edited theme.

So, modifying W10 appearance appears to be limited in so many ways.

There might be ways to make window buttons react "sort of" like they do in W7, though. What I mean, is when one is about to close/restore/minimize a window, and hesitates, having mouse pointer on any button, so that it's "pushed in", but not clicked.
     



 

[sorveltaja]

I've been playing with msstyles editor, and found something that still seems to be a part of W10. I have no idea what kind of mode it is, as it lasts only few seconds before W10 crashes and becomes totally unusable with black screen. Even rebooting doesn't help.

I was able to reproduce that to take a screen capture of the virtual machine:



It does that when opening aerolite.msstyles file in the editor, and deleting a few property keys, and clicking test button. So that's just the theme I'm looking for(and with extra feature, gradient window title bar!).

That's again one of those things, of which I have found practically nothing on the net. Or perhaps I haven't used right terms to look for it. 'Fallback' is a word I've used to search.

PS. I noticed after posting, that the image seems zoomed in/too large to fit in the page. It's about 1600 x 1200(resolution of the virtual machine plus vm borders). Is there a way to make it show in original size?

PS 2. I resized the image to fit better.

[sorveltaja]

I use mainly firefox for web browsing, and noticed that in W10 it has huge spaces between items in bookmarks menu. I prefer it nice and tight, as it is in W7. 

There appears to be no options in firefox's setting to adjust it, but still it seems to be possible. Comparison - on the left is modded and on the right is default menu item spacing:

 

I've tested this with esr (extended support release) versions of firefox 91.6.0 and 115.13.0.

It has to do with a file called userChrome.css. From what I've read, it can be used to modify many aspects in firefox user interface.

But in this case, someone has wrote a short snippet (which I've edited, as the default menu bar font 13 is way too big for my preference):

Code: [Select]

menupopup > menuitem, menupopup > menu {
padding-block: 0px !important; /*adjust: 0px-4px*/
min-height: 21px !important; /*adjust: 21px-24px or unset*/
}

*|*:root {--arrowpanel-menuitem-padding: 1px 8px !important;}

/*
* Make all the default font sizes 13 pt:
*/
* {
font-size: 9pt !important
}

It can be saved as txt file, and then renamed to have .css extension. It has to be in a folder 'chrome', which can be created to desktop or other temporary place.

Then it's copied to C:\Users\<username>\AppData\Roaming\Mozilla\Firefox\Profiles\xxxxxxxx.default (x's are some random numbers and letters)
At this point it does nothing, and firefox has to be made to look for it when it starts.

It's done by writing in firefox's address bar "about:config" (without quotation marks) and then to search bar below: 

toolkit.legacyUserProfileCustomizations.stylesheets - and set the value from false to true.

It can be undone, if needed - just delete the copied 'chrome' folder.

Some info about the subject: https://www.tenforums.com/browsers-email/183901-firefox-taming-beast-part-2-a.html

[sorveltaja]

When W10 starts, there is notable delay with startup program(s). For example, I've used to add Winamp shortcut to startup folder, so it starts automatically.
There seems to be at least one way to reduce that delay, though. I saw it in youtube video.

Yes, it requires (again) a registry hack:

Open Regedit and navigate to the HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer, and create a new key 'Serialize'. Then add 32-bit Dword 'StartupDelayInMSec', and set the value to 0.

I guess same can be done instead by merging the registry entry:

Code: [Select]

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Serialize]
"StartupDelayInMSec"=dword:00000000
It's just unbelievable. One has to use fix after fix to make W10 usable. It's obvious that Microsoft will not react to such issues at all, although there are MS sites, where users can give feedback.
And having zillions of W10 (and W11) versions doesn't help either.

[sorveltaja]

Yet another annoyance in W10: it doesn't remember/save apps' volume levels, so they are always set to the master's level (leftmost one in volume mixer). when apps are started.
I'll look for info about how to fix that. If I find a working solution, I'll add it here.

Edit: so far it seems to be only Opera browser, whose volume level isn't saved. I tried portable version, and same result.

Edit 2: The issue with Opera is probably, that for some reason it doesn't have an entry in HKEY_CURRENT_USER\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Internet Explorer\LowRegistry\Audio\PolicyConfig\PropertyStore, where other apps(like Winamp and Firefox) store their volume levels. 

Creating such an entry for opera would be nice, but the entries have cryptic values/names or whatever, which consist numbers and letters:

Edit 3: I tested Opera with newer W10 22H2 in virtual machine. There the volume levels were stored, and it worked as it should. But it is default, non-debloated version.

Conclusion: expect odd hickups when using modified version of Windows.

Edit 4: It seems that for W10 to store apps like Opera's volume levels, Internet Explorer 11 needs to be enabled in Windows features. I tested it with previously mentioned W10 22H2 by disabling IE, and voila, Opera volume level was stored no more.

One wonders why some apps have features, which are still dependent of IE.

Anyway, I think I'll make another debloated version of W10, which includes IE.

[sorveltaja]

Yet another registry hack, which enables 'old style' feature. When clicking volume icon, default result is on the left, and 'restored' one on the right:

 

 

   

Code: [Select]

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\MTCUVC]
"EnableMtcUvc"=dword:00000000
It's from http://www.thealmightyguru.com/Wiki/index.php?title=Windows_10_tricks#Re-enable_volume_mixer

[Muzzerboy]

Another annoyance with W10 compared to W7 - the intern tasked with messing up the brightness controls decided to reset the brightness at each startup to a nice low setting. So each time I start up my XPS13 I have to crank up the brightness manually. That must have been a conscious decision - you have to wonder why....

[sorveltaja]

Another annoyance with W10 compared to W7 - the intern tasked with messing up the brightness controls decided to reset the brightness at each startup to a nice low setting. So each time I start up my XPS13 I have to crank up the brightness manually. That must have been a conscious decision - you have to wonder why....

Is there some (possibly display card related, or other) software involved, that enables one to control the brightness? I admit to be a newbie with W10, as I haven't found such option in the OS itself.

[Muzzerboy]

It's in "display and settings" - just type "brightness" in the start button to get there. On my laptop there are also brightness up/down keys, thankfully, so I don't have to dive into settings each time I start up. But it's bl00dy annoying that it resets brightness each time.

I take it you're familiar with this kind of install process?

[sorveltaja]

It's in "display and settings" - just type "brightness" in the start button to get there. On my laptop there are also brightness up/down keys, thankfully, so I don't have to dive into settings each time I start up. But it's bl00dy annoying that it resets brightness each time.

I take it you're familiar with this kind of install process?

Ah ok, it's a laptop. I have two old Acer ones, which have similar feature, as well as volume adjustment. So far, I'm not sure what is involved with those functions, as they probably exist only in laptops and nowadays in other portable devices. Wild guess would be that it may depend on what kind of software different brands (Asus, Acer, HP or whatever) have pre-installed in their machines, as 'features'. I have never been fan of such, and therefore have removed that kind of bloat from my laptops, at the moment I got my paws on them.

So, if or when one looks for solution to such issue as you mentioned, there may not be only one way to skin the cat.

About the video you posted: No, I haven't got that far; no need for automation, as I only need to install one instance to my desktop pc.

There are, no doubt, other options available, but for me Msmg tool is enough to strip away all the excess and unnecessary bloat of the installation media.       

     

[sorveltaja]

This is not W10 related, but about Firefox, which keeps sometimes nagging about updates. In Waterfox, updates can be turned off totally in settings (so far), but not in FF.

These two registry entries can be used to disable and enable updating.

Updating off:

Code: [Select]

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Mozilla\Firefox]
"DisableAppUpdate"=dword:00000001


Updating back on:

Code: [Select]

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Mozilla\Firefox]
"DisableAppUpdate"=dword:00000000

After the updating is disabled, it looks like this:

 

[sorveltaja]

There appears to be a significant difference in OpenGL test results between W7 and W10. If the benchmark at https://www.geeks3d.com/gputest/ is to be trusted, W10 with latest Nvidia driver has a score of almost five times to W7 in one of its tests:

 

 

As can be seen, W7 has much older driver, as there aren't new drivers for it (haven't checked, which is the latest version, that would work in W7, though).
   

 

[sorveltaja]

Another, major annoyance: when searching something, for example on C drive, using term "png" or whatever, if/when there are results that show png files, and double-clicking one of the results to open it. All is well at that point.

But when the search is over, and one goes back to that folder's initial view, and minimize the window, it goes back to search mode. I use to do that a lot in W7, and haven't yet found what causes such behavior in W10.

Again, I'm using W10 21H2 Build 19044.1288 for testing. I've already disabled Focus and window snapping in settings. Anyone with more recent instance of W10? Does this issue still exist in newest version? 

[sorveltaja]

Does this issue still exist in newest version?

I tested latest W10 22H2 version, no. Neither do few other default versions of W10, that I've played with. So it was about debloating bit too much. 

As I've used Msmg toolkit for cropping the installation media, I made yet another image, and looked for possible search-related things, like Cortana and such.
In system apps -section, there was 'search app' (number 32 on the list) which I had previously always disabled. So I left it enabled, and it looks like that issue is solved.

At this point, it seems that at least two W10 features/apps or whatever needs to be included in the customized image:

- Internet Explorer (for browsers like Opera to 'remember' user set volume levels)
- Search App (so that explorer doesn't stubbornly go back to search mode, as mentioned earlier)