Author Topic: Boxford 8" shaper (Read 54263 times)

raynerd · « **on:** June 09, 2009, 10:07:27 AM »

I got my boxford model A lathe a while ago and I since then I have been offered a 8" boxford shaper. I`m pretty interested but since I have my X2 mill, will I have any use for it? I have seen some nice videos on youtube of shapers running and they look like a clever little machine but with my mill, do they have any advantages or additional benfits?

There is countless reports and forums dedicated online to mills and lathes but shapers don`t often get a mention. Money isn`t such an issue as he doesn`t want much, I`m thinking more about available space. I quite fancy it to go along side my Boxford but then I`m becoming a "tackle tart" rather than function!

Anyone own a shaper or lend any advice?

Chris

Darren · « **Reply #1 on:** June 09, 2009, 11:02:03 AM »

You'll get a mixed response about shapers,

I like mine, leaves a better finish than the mill in my opinion. But that's with me at the wheel of my tools, others may have different ideas.

I wouldn't part with mine, but they are slow. I made this on mine

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=908.0

raynerd · « **Reply #2 on:** June 09, 2009, 01:09:35 PM »

Jeez Darren, missed that thread - amazing job and thanks for the info regarding the shaper. What make and model is yours?

Darren · « **Reply #3 on:** June 09, 2009, 01:32:27 PM »

I Have an Atlas 7b, well mine is an Acorn but they are exactly the same thing but re-branded for the UK market.

It looks rough and rusty in these pic's, but it's not really and is in fine condition mechanically. Certainly cuts really nicely.

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=503.0

raynerd · « **Reply #4 on:** June 09, 2009, 03:16:07 PM »

Cheers Darren - interesting thread.

It really did worry me about how heavy this machine was! Is there no way to break them down a little more to make them more managable for transport?
I`ve more or less agreed that I will have the machine but I`m a little concerned now about getting it home in my freelander with the stand. It just high-lighted the issue in your thread!!

Just out of interest - do you know how your shaper compares to the boxford 8" model. I was just wondering if you have ever come across any details about it and if all the necessary functions are on the Boxford as well.

Again, thanks for the post.

Chris

matnewsholme · « **Reply #5 on:** June 09, 2009, 03:44:08 PM »

chris

have a look at this page. I'd take without a second thought if I had space

matt

http://www.lathes.co.uk/shapers/

CrewCab · « **Reply #6 on:** June 10, 2009, 04:44:33 PM »

The above link lists the shaper as "light enough to be moved easily" which is about as helpful as a chocolate fireguard

but I'm with the other guys, if you can fit it in the workshop take it ......... no question .............. just put it down to being a gadget freak if SWMBO asks, ........... hopefully (for us all) treatment on the National Health will be forthcoming

CC

Darren · « **Reply #7 on:** June 10, 2009, 07:21:42 PM »

Quote from: craynerd on June 09, 2009, 03:16:07 PM

Just out of interest - do you know how your shaper compares to the boxford 8" model. I was just wondering if you have ever come across any details about it and if all the necessary functions are on the Boxford as well.

Chris

Hi Chris, sorry this is the only shaper I have any exp of...

Darren · « **Reply #8 on:** June 10, 2009, 07:22:45 PM »

Quote from: CrewCab on June 10, 2009, 04:44:33 PM

The above link lists the shaper as "light enough to be moved easily"

He can come and move mine into the garage then, cos light it aint !!

raynerd · « **Reply #9 on:** June 12, 2009, 09:41:31 AM »

Does anyone know if "in practice" these can be dismantled into parts managable by a single person? I have help getting it to my house and out into my back yard, but ultimately will want to shift it into the cellar and I`ll have to do that alone and mainly because large pieces won`t fit down anyway!

Chris

Darren · « **Reply #10 on:** June 12, 2009, 09:45:16 AM »

Well you could strip it a bit, but frankly it would take time and the main casting would still be too heavy for one person.

Best to keep it whole I think....

raynerd · « **Reply #11 on:** June 17, 2009, 05:05:24 PM »

Hi Guys
I got the shaper and managed to get it all together and fixed up over the last few nights, I just couldn`t let it go when he was giving it to me .... and now to the same problem as the lathe - powering it up!
I have just opened the socket box and in there are 4 wires, three black and one green/yellow striped wire. And that is when I got a sickening feeling - is this a three phase?!?! How else will I be able to clarify this?

I have looked at the boxford shaper manual found here:
http://neme-s.org/Shaper%20Books/Boxford%20Shaper/Boxford%208%20Inch%20Shaper.pdf

It does say that both three phase and single phase motors were used on these shapers. To quote the manual "Machines for single phase electric supply are correctly wired before dispatch. Machines for 3 phase supply can be reversed if necessary by changing over any two leads from the supply."

Now this may be incredibly naive or idiotic but knowing relatively little about electrics, this could be take that "reversed" means reversed to single phase -sadly i presume not.

raynerd · « **Reply #12 on:** June 17, 2009, 05:28:53 PM »

Sorry, only ten minutes later but I have just had confirmation off the original owner that it is 240v single phase, so how the heck can I have 4 wires in the terminal block? - my basic knowledge of fitting a plug suggests I should have three, an earth, live and neutral!

Chris

Darren · « **Reply #13 on:** June 17, 2009, 07:32:42 PM »

Quote from: craynerd on June 17, 2009, 05:05:24 PM

sadly i presume not.

Quite correct, you presume wrongly, or is that correctly....

It means to reverse the direction of the motor. Clockwise/anti-clockwise....

Darren · « **Reply #14 on:** June 17, 2009, 07:34:45 PM »

Quote from: craynerd on June 17, 2009, 05:28:53 PM

Sorry, only ten minutes later but I have just had confirmation off the original owner that it is 240v single phase, so how the heck can I have 4 wires in the terminal block? - my basic knowledge of fitting a plug suggests I should have three, an earth, live and neutral!

Chris

Chris, sorry to say but without being there in person I can't really advise. From what you have said we don't really know if you have single phase or 3 phase despite what the previous owner has told you.

Have a look at the motor tag...

raynerd · « **Reply #15 on:** June 17, 2009, 10:35:37 PM »

Motor Plate Reads:

BrookCromptonParkinson Motors
Doncaster
AC Motor
MMA544BB14
W 550
RPM 1425
V 280/440 - 220/250
A 1.5/2.6
PH3 H250 RIG CR
INB.CL F AMB oC Max
BB5000/11

--------------
Do I fear the worst - PH3 = Phase 3 ? The guy I bought it off still insists it is a single phase, said he hasn`t wired it up but is Uncle, brother or who-ever had?!

Darren · « **Reply #16 on:** June 18, 2009, 04:44:18 AM »

It's 3 Phase Chris with a desirable dual voltage motor...not that it's much good to you on a shaper mind...

rleete · « **Reply #17 on:** June 18, 2009, 08:44:47 AM »

Yes, it's 3 phase.

It won't be as efficient, but you can run it on single phase with a fairly cheap converter. I was looking at a full size mill they were retiring from use here at work, so looked into these. I found them on eBay for under $100, and locally for even cheaper (~$85). I think Bernd has one on his mill, so he can probably tell you more.

kvom · « **Reply #18 on:** June 18, 2009, 09:22:43 AM »

A 3PH motor can run on 1PH power but won't start. If you can rig a pulley with a pull rope or use a pony motor to start it turning it will run. That said it's not very convenient. The cheapest 3PH solution is a static phase converter, but a VFD would be a better choice IMO.

The nameplate doesn't state the HP of the motor; you need to size the converter to the size of the motor.

Bernd · « **Reply #19 on:** June 18, 2009, 10:28:21 AM »

The Bridgeport is has a 3 phase 220/440 volt 2 horse power motor. I run it with a rotary converter that is a 3 phase 3 horse power on 220 volt single phase and it self starts. A freind of mine put it together for me for the cost of the parts, which means I got away cheap for about $35. I'm very happy with the converter. It's a bit noisy but works great.

Bernd

raynerd · « **Reply #20 on:** June 18, 2009, 01:22:55 PM »

Well thanks for the info - what a huge disappointment!

I was debating whether to get this in the first place, it is a big piece of kit! I have rang Brook motors and a direct replacement 1ph would be approx £220!!! OUCH! I have been looking into converters and again, safety in mind, I really don`t feel this is something I could do and it would again cost me near the same if I got someone to do it for me. It is just going to cost too much in the long run and multiply this with the space that it takes up, I`m just debating whether this is something I really want to keep right now! If it had been single phase it would have been a great buy and could have happily stayed in my workshop but as it is, it is going to really cost me to sort it out and with my mill, perhaps I have enough equipment to be getting use to.

Hummmm.... thanks for your help so far.

NickG · « **Reply #21 on:** June 19, 2009, 04:56:55 AM »

Craynerd,

It's 3 phase, but the dual voltage as somebody said is desirable. You don't need a convertor or rotary convertor you can use an inverter which also has the advantage of giving you full variable speed.

The hp is 3/4 (550W as says on your nameplate). You can get inverters from here: http://www.bedetools.com/page12.html the one you need is £135. Just another option. Either that or you can quite easily make your own static or rotary converter. I looked into it but for my harrison lathe but it was easier just to buy a new motor for that.

Interestingly, my Centec milling machine has a very similar, if not the same motor as your shaper. I didn't know it was 3 phase until it started cutting out due to the bi-metal thermal overload contacts on the switch. When I looked into it it's a dual voltage 3 phase motor, however, it self starts, it's wired straight into 240v 1 phase because as I said, I didn't have a clue it was 3 phase! Unless somebody has messed around inside the motor creating their own static convertor as there are only 2 wires ... really puzzled!

Did you pay a lot for it? For £135 I reckon it'd be a useful addition to the workshop.

Darren · « **Reply #22 on:** June 19, 2009, 07:10:28 AM »

Nick,

A 3ph motor won't start on single phase without some help...

I'll take a guess, someone has rewired the internal motor connections to delta and conected a capacitor from L1 or L2 to L3.

Then it will start and run fine, but at 1/2hp

Chris, please don't try this. First you need to know exactly what you are doing as either a: you'll kill yourself, b: you'll burnt the motor out in 5 min flat.

It's slightly more complicated than what I suggested above, you need propper test equipment in order to get the right cap values (there will be two of them and some sort of actuator)
Nobody can tell you what the cap value will need to be as they are all slightly different and it's found under testing at load.

It would be a simple matter to take the 3ph motor out and swap it for a single phase unit. Don't look for a new one, second hand you can find them for a tenner or so or even free. I have quite a few spare motors collected over the years.

Nick, sounds like someone has turned your motor into it's own 3ph generator.

raynerd · « **Reply #23 on:** June 19, 2009, 02:22:42 PM »

Darren

"Don't look for a new one, second hand you can find them for a tenner or so or even free." Where would I look to find one at those sorts of prices?!?

When I first saw the 4 wires, I thought one was an earth, one a return and then the other two are both hot but used depending on the voltage. The guy who I got it from still insists this is a single phase even though I told him I`d emailed Brook motors and they confirmed it as a three phase! If two are live and one is a return, I presume I`d be able to find the two lives through continuity with the return but not with each other.

Like you say, perhaps it isn`t worth risking anything - but then again if I don`t, the machine is going

Darren · « **Reply #24 on:** June 19, 2009, 06:09:12 PM »

Ask the ex owner to come and wire it up....but stand well back.....

I got my spare motors over the years mainly from car boots. I never paid more than a fiver for any of them.

One is a very nice "proper" 1hp unit and came with all the modern safty switches and armoured flex etc....(proper as in not a chinese 1hp)

If you don't want the shaper I'm sure I can find you a place to leave it....but bear in mind... the best things in life don't come free...they take a little effort.

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Author Topic: Boxford 8" shaper (Read 54263 times)