Author Topic: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig  (Read 11588 times)

Offline Chuck in E. TN

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Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« on: November 25, 2009, 03:01:55 PM »
Has anyone made  a Steve Bedair ball cutter for a 7x14 Seig? Will it even scale down to the 7x? I found Ralph's(Divided he ad) post, http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=617.msg2950#msg2950 and would like more info on the tool holder in the "new and improved" version. My version would have to have a  2 piece tool holder as well.
I do not have a mill, yet, so my version will be made entirely on a lathe, drill press, and various hand tools. I have done some basic milling  with my lathe making tool holders out of 2" x 2" aluminum blocks. I held the milling cutter in the chuck and the block on the tool post, but don't have a clue as to how I would mount the 2 1/2" round of CRS sideways to mill the channel for the cutter...
I know I could buy one of several versions, but where's the fun in that!
I'm in the planning/can I do this with what I have/please comment/set me straight stage, but would really like to make this tool. Mouse balls are getting scarce...

Chuck in E. TN
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Offline cedge

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2009, 03:25:39 PM »
Chuck
If you're careful to watch clearances, the Bedair style can be made to fit the 7x? lathe. I made one quite a while back and it worked fine. The trick is to "interlock" the top and bottom using concentric lips, so everything runs on the same axis. I wound up drilling and tapping a pair of mounting holes in the top of the cross slide and putting the bolts inside the base with access holes, topside, to tighten them.

The cutter section has a number of possible configurations, but be sure to keep the cutting point dead on the centerline.

Steve

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2009, 03:51:06 PM »

The cutter section has a number of possible configurations, but be sure to keep the cutting point dead on the centerline.

Steve

I built the Bedair one as per plan for my 9*20....Cant seem to point to it in Photobucket atm....:(

But as Steve said the important thing is to have the cutter point on centreline....

I'd probably go smaller than 2 1/2 dia for the 'rotary bit' to keep the 'size' relationship with the 7*12 ( the smaller the diameter the smaller radius you will have for turning balls)  the base plate just make to suit the cross slide of your lathe.....
« Last Edit: December 06, 2009, 05:39:10 PM by CrewCab »
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Offline andyf

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2009, 04:02:06 PM »
Chuck, these might be the plans you want - they are by Ralph Patterson, for the 7x lathe, but I think they are based on the Steve Bedair version.

http://www.toolsandmods.com/library/ralph_patterson_ball_turning_tool.pdf

Andy
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2009, 04:30:55 PM »
Chuck,

Here's one I did for my 9" X 19" Grizzly. Ball Turner

Bernd
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Offline John Rudd

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2009, 04:39:06 PM »
Chuck,

Here's one I did for my 9" X 19" Grizzly. Ball Turner

Bernd

Bernd,

You must be a wizard or summat....You go from a piece of flat steel with a horizontal line scribed onto it,to a fully blown ball turner in one pic.........Wow...teach me... :) :)  :doh:

Yup some great pictures there and some nice work too in all seriousness...

I wish I had the 'creative' gene in me...All I do it seems, is to copy every one else.... :(

Must admit since making my ball turner, I've hardly used it...It seemed like a good project at the time, nice and simple to make...
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Offline Chuck in E. TN

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #6 on: November 25, 2009, 04:47:49 PM »
I don't have the creative geene in me either. That's why I really like this list. I get to ask questions like this and get great sugestions and examples.
I thank you all for your input. I am printing Ralph Petersons plans now. I remember seeing a bit of plate somewhere.... :proj:
Got it bad...
Chuck
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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #7 on: November 25, 2009, 04:53:34 PM »
John & Chuck

Quote
I wish I had the 'creative' gene in me...All I do it seems, is to copy every one else....
Quote
I don't have the creative geene in me either.

I hope that this site caters well for people like yourselves, we can't all be super inventors. But I am sure that you know and do a lot of things that others wouldn't be able to do by themselves.

That is why we are here, to help each other out.


John

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #8 on: November 25, 2009, 04:54:41 PM »
I don't have the creative geene in me either. That's why I really like this list.

Me too...We cant have all the answers...What happened to sharing...?  :)

Nice to be among good people I say..who will share :beer:
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Offline 75Plus

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2009, 10:43:57 PM »
I don't have pictures but I can tell you how to chuck up the 2 1/2" CRS for milling the slot.

Face off the CRS and scribe a center line. Drill and tap three 5/16" or 3/8" holes. One hole needs to be exactly centered as you will need a center hole anyway. The other two can be 1" from the center.

Take a piece of square or rectangular stock that will fit into your tool holder. Drill and countersink or counterbore three holes to match the tapped holes. (I use socket head cap screws in this situation). Bolt the two parts together, clamp them in the tool holder, and mill your slot.

The two extra holes should pose no problem for the finished product but you could bury a bolt in each hole, cut off the bolt head, and face of again.

I used a similar arrangement to adapt a drill press vice to the original tool holder that I replaced with a QCTH.

Joe

Revised 11/27 to add pictures.

Here is some pictures of the drill press vice I adapted to mill slots in thin wall tubing. This was before I got my mill.

Front view of setup:



Back View



Close up showing attachment

« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 11:24:13 AM by Bernd »

Offline Gerhard Olivier

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2009, 03:55:14 AM »
Chuck I looked at the plan in the link above and have an idea as to making it a bit easier to make and it might just open another line of thinking.

If you make a base that has a round centre on it with a groove right around it.  And the rotating part to fit snug over it and have 4 grub screw holes at 90 deg for dog point grub-screws to provide the tracking.The tool would fit in the toolpost like older style lathe tools and you would move the tool in to cut a smaller radius and out to cut bigger. You could even make 2 or 3 possible toolpost positions to keep the tool overhang down as much as poss.

Brass dog point grub screws would give nice free rotation???????

Added COC - just something to think about. NO milling needed at al.




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Offline Bernd

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2009, 11:28:10 AM »
You must be a wizard or summat....You go from a piece of flat steel with a horizontal line scribed onto it,to a fully blown ball turner in one pic.........Wow...teach me... :) :)  :doh:


Very simple John. You forget to take pictures of what your doing because you are so into your project.  :lol:

Seriously, I did forget to take pics of that part. I used a bandsaw for the removal of the waste stock and the mill to finish it up.

Bernd
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Offline Chuck in E. TN

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2009, 11:32:18 AM »
Well, I'm working on it. First attempt will be in aluminum. I have faced both ends of the round stock, cleaned up the outside and center drilled it and scribed the center line. Now working on the 1/2" square stock to bolt to it to mount on the tool post. Trying to figure out how to get the scribed line centered.
After a diversion looking for my scribe, that I put in the tool drawer yesterday with the matching center punch, so I could find it... The scribe and punch are both finished black, the lighting over the toolbox is poor, and the scribe chose to hide in a corner in the shadows! Found it on the 4th search of the drawer.
I will drill 3 holes in the 1/2" stock first and then bolt it to the round stock with the center bolt, and use transfer punch to mark the other 2.
Working up a big appetite for Thanksgiving Dinner at the Daughters, her indoors says I cam play for another couple of hours!

Chuck
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Offline Chuck in E. TN

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2009, 02:14:01 PM »
Well, I succeeded in milling the slot for the tool holder. I used 75Plus's suggestion of screwing the round to a piece of square stock that would fit my tool post. Thanks, Joe. I had to shim the square stock to get it back on center.
The mill was a double end 4 flute that I inherited from my Dad. It had masking tape on the cutters, but it was so old, I couldn't get it off.
The round protested greatly when I hit the center hole and when the cutter came out the front side. I ran the work into the cutter from the operators side. I went .400 deep with the slot in fewer passes than I expected!
Now to figure out how to drill the holes for the clamp screws. Any suggestions?  Center drill on round stock? I could put the end mill in my drill press and spot 3 flat spots. Never done that before.

Chuck

Forgot the pic's:
 How do you add pic's?

Her indoors say's I got to get ready for dinner. Later.
Link to pic's: http://s571.photobucket.com/albums/ss157/chucketn/Machining/Ball_Cutter/
« Last Edit: November 26, 2009, 08:59:30 PM by Chuck in E. TN »
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Offline Chuck in E. TN

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2009, 03:34:59 PM »
Well, I have almost completed the Peterson/Bedair Ball cutter, with deviations... Still need to make the tool holder, and grind a bit.
It's not pretty! But, I hope,  it's functional. It's sitting on my heater, waiting for the locktite to dry. Had a heck of a time getting the center pivot screw set to where the body would turn, but not wobble.  I achieved some basic milling on the lath, with one minor foopaw. The cross slide leadscrew nut came loose from the vibration of the milling and the cross slide jumped, causing the mill to zip out of the counter boar for the tool holding screw and marked up body. Most of what I did was an experiment, and not much to tolerance.
I need to go through the lathe and adjust all the gibs again.
Then on to prepare a piece of brass for the first ball! Then again, I have more aluminum bar than brass, so aluminum it will be.
Thanks again for the guidance of the group, and all the suggestions on how to accomplish this job. I'll post pic's if the ball cutter actually works.

Chuck
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #15 on: November 29, 2009, 07:11:31 PM »
Hi chuck  :wave:

Just found this thread..... Been distracted/busy as usual these days.... ::)   Anywho...


I don't know if you found this thread? 

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=319.0

It was made for a 7x12 as stated and shown etc..... worked first time too!!!


If when you come to turning your first ball and find your getting more football shapes (American style that is) then I can help you with that too... Been there done that :doh: I have links available where I tried my best to explain the set up procedure that I used..... it seemed to work well for me  :thumbup:


Can't believe that you haven't much used your tool post John (Rudd). I use mine for all sorts of shaping and creating  :dremel: 
Maybe you could chuck up a piece of bar and just let the tool allow you to create some smooth curves just for the hell of it? Alter the cutting tool distance etc and have fun with it! It might help open up some creative channels in your mind?  :ddb:



Looking forward to seeing another take on the idea :)







Ralph.
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Offline Chuck in E. TN

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2009, 06:59:07 PM »
Got all the way to making the tool holder. My attempt at drilling the hole for the tool bit went awry, and the tool bit ended  up way  low. Back to the drawing board....
Man, I need a mill....
Chuck in E. TN
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #17 on: December 04, 2009, 04:10:30 AM »
If it's the tool posts height in the turret that is the issue?  Why not try to solder/screw a plate to the bottom of it to raise it to the correct cutting height?

A few piccys would help us all understand the issues!

 :worthless:


 :D




Ralph.
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Offline Chuck in E. TN

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2009, 12:28:37 PM »
Made another attempt at the tool post bit. I carefully squared up my stock 7X tool post and put the tool holder in it. With a 4 flute end mill in the 3-jaw, I squared the hacksawed ends, repositioned the blank and milled the "L" shape. Much more square and better looking. Mounted the "L" in the turret and squared it with the chuck. Center drilled and through drilled for the tool bit. Repositioned again and drilled the hole for the set screw. Now the tool bit sits on center.
New problem. I cut, faced drilled and tapped a 3/4" piece of aluminum round for my first ball. Problem is I didn't mill the base of the "L" low enough and the tool bit will not clear the ball blank.
I have really learned the value of design, and keeping to dimention, even though I'm working from generic plans for another size lathe!
Another problem I have to solve, is getting the turet part tight enough to eliminate slop/rocking, getting it to stay adjusted, and still be able to rotate it. I used a socket head screw to hold the turet to the base, with a brass washer under the head. I can tighten the screw untill the turet just turns, but the screw will loosen every time! I did not cross drill the screw for the weed eater string as Ralph Peterson did, don't have any on hand at the moment.
I have little experience in these things, and am open to suggestions.
Chuck in E. TN
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Offline Gerhard Olivier

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #19 on: December 06, 2009, 01:45:52 PM »
My ball cutter was a bit stif to rotate and a improved it with a taper bearing
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1822.0

As to the ball not clearing -Try a small bal first to prove the rest of the design and if the rest is ok then mod that part - Otherwise you could spend a lot of time modding that and later find somthing else dont work

Gerhard
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2009, 01:58:41 PM »
Chuck,

A tiny bit of "Loctite" on the screw threads would help hold the screw. Lacking that I would try any glue, such as ACC or even a wood glue might work. Give it a try. Can't hurt.

Bernd
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Offline andyf

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #21 on: December 06, 2009, 04:21:57 PM »
The plans show a fair depth of metal in the rotating component, under the toolholder slot. Could you take the tapped hole for the pivot screw all the way through, then put a socket grubscrew/setscrew in from the top, to bear down on the pivot screw and lock it in place?  The grubscrew would need to be short, of course, or it would protrude above the floor of the slot.

Andy
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I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #22 on: December 06, 2009, 04:24:41 PM »
Locktight worked on the mini turner I made....

The screw that I used in the 9x20 turner was made to hit and bedded into the end of the threaded hole.

I just ground slight amounts off the top of the screw thread until when I tightened it fully it had just enough clearance between the shoulder and the base to allow the turret to rotate and was so tight it doesn't work free.

Worked then and still working now, tightened it twice since first build over 2 years ago  :thumbup:


Just on the pictures note.... It really would help us to understand what you've got and if we can suggest changes.... I know you asked about posting pic's.

You already know how to post the simple link but this is the best I could do to help people post pic's.... Hope it makes sense?   :thumbup:

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=607.0




Ralph.
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Offline Chuck in E. TN

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #23 on: December 06, 2009, 05:05:02 PM »
Thanks Ralph, I have a photobucket  account (http://s571.photobucket.com/albums/ss157/chucketn/Machining/)and will post pics soon. It's currently about 36 Deg F in the shop/garage. I will take pics of the current setup when it warms up a bit!
I think I have some trimmer string in the lawn shead, too cold to investigate today!
I will probably try the string thread lock trick, investigate milling some more off the "L" shaped tool holder, and using a skate bearing in the turret. I bought a tube of 8 skate bearings a while back for another project.
In the mean time, another computer tech mate of mine donated a box of 20+ mouse balls for handle ends, so I'll get my 'balls' one way or the 'tother!
Chuck in E. TN
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Adapting a Bedair Ball cutter to a 7x14 Seig
« Reply #24 on: December 06, 2009, 05:14:05 PM »
Chuck,

I'm not touching that last line for anything.  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

Bernd
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