Author Topic: oh no another ball turner  (Read 18543 times)

Offline j45on

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oh no another ball turner
« on: August 10, 2010, 04:32:37 PM »
I have been trying to mock up a ball turner for my chester commet/sieg c4 before I order the rest of the metal to build it and wanted to make sure I have not made any cock ups/design flaws :hammer:

One of the things I realy want to make is a gear knob for my car so it needs to be able to turn a 50mm (aluminium)ball
which probably makes it a bit shorter than most ?

The first one I drew with inkscape


and the second with sketchup sorry the dimensions are all over the place


I already have the piece of 4" square steel for the base but nothing else at the moment
Does anybody foresee any problems with it ?
Jason

Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #1 on: August 10, 2010, 04:45:30 PM »
J45,

The only thing that leaps out and bites me is the use of a screw as the hold-down.  You need some way to lock it else it will want to tighten or loosen on you as you pivot your ball cutter.  A short piece of shaft (screwed and locked into the pivot) with a snap ring (I am a big fan of the Smalley type rings) and a Belleville washer might be a better way to go.  ???  --  Lew

Offline John Hill

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2010, 05:51:34 PM »
Looks nice  Jason(?),  my comment is to put a skirt on the green bit to increase the area that is resting on the red bit.  Provided the tool tip is always within the area of the red bit the screw will be quite adequate, IMHO.

John
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Offline j45on

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #3 on: August 11, 2010, 02:21:34 PM »
Thanks for the feed back guys  :bow:
Guess I'm going to have to order some metal now  :thumbup:
Oooh and some carbide inserts as I don't have any insert tooling yet

Jason

Offline 75Plus

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #4 on: August 11, 2010, 03:25:38 PM »
Jason, A few months ago I made a ball turner for use on a 7 X 12 mini lathe. I am able to turn up to 45mm balls on that lathe. I also made another plate to fit the C4 lathe and am able, with a taller tool holder, to turn 55mm balls. The two halves cannot loosen as the tool is turned back and forth. You can find it here:

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2938.0

I have sketches using Sketchup 6 that I could send you also.

Joe

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2010, 08:47:51 PM »
Quote
The only thing that leaps out and bites me is the use of a screw as the hold-down.  You need some way to lock it else it will want to tighten or loosen on you as you pivot your ball cutter.

Not necessarily Lew...  Mine is held together with just a screw. No loctite, no locking devices of any type at all.

I simply made the screw too long to fit the job (very important not to drill right through the turret) then file/emery it down a little at a time till it bottomed out and the (lubricated) turret would still turn freely but remain firm. It's held well now for over 3 years and there are plenty of projects pictured and filmed to show the lack of chatter and the abuse I throw at it (most of my work is in stainless)


http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=282.15
A thread I put some pic's and ramblings in, just my experiences....  please note the bottom pic, I think it's quite important to get the parts lapped together.


Just my notes  :)





Ralph.
« Last Edit: August 20, 2010, 06:48:31 PM by Divided he ad »
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #6 on: August 11, 2010, 09:10:05 PM »
When I get about finishing mine, I am going to go with Ralphs' idea with filing the threads on the bolt. I think Steve Bedair also said to crimp the threads or something like that.

Nice job designing it.

Did you already tell us what the shift knob would be use?

Eric
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Offline Gerhard Olivier

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2010, 04:24:22 AM »
Hi Jason

A simple piece of brass insert made to a close fit would make it so that you could lock the screw and then the force would not be on the screw any more.  Should make it turn easier as well.

COC Forgive the diagram


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Offline j45on

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2010, 03:36:49 PM »
Thanks again guys  :thumbup:
I'm convinced the screw shall be easiest for me so I'm going for that

Brass_Machine The 50mm ball will just be a gear knob for my car and then balls for everything else like my lift at work,and other machines with cheep plastic knobs :D
I also have a daft idea in my head to make a flip top gear knob that either has a secret compartment inside or a switch ::)

Divided he you say "I think it's quite important to get the parts lapped together"
Do you think automotive valve grinding paste will be any good for this ?
Or will I need something finer.

Jason
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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #9 on: August 13, 2010, 07:06:57 AM »
Hi Jason,

Valve grinding paste was my choice for the job, (the fine side).

There are a few pics in the thread on the mini version I made a while back... http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=319.msg803#msg803  Bout 8 pictures up from the bottom will explain all I did.


Flip top gear knob eh??  Has all sorts of uses.... Switch for the nitro I'm thinking!!  :ddb:

What motor you got?


You know we're expecting a few pics of the build don't you?   :worthless:   

 :)




Ralph.




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Offline j45on

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #10 on: August 14, 2010, 03:29:41 PM »
Valve grinding paste was my choice for the job, (the fine side)
Thats good I have some of that :-) and thanks for the link

My car is a ford mondeo st220 no nitrous I'm afraid
sorry for the poor camera phone pic


I don't except this project to fly along I have been in my shed nearly all day and all I did was put up some shelfs and tidy up a bit
I then spent far to long building this paper towel holder  :hammer:


Jason
Jason

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #11 on: August 15, 2010, 07:21:42 PM »
Ahh, Close to the modern equivalent of my car (still no external pic's available) Sapphire Cossy  :headbang:   

Nitrous could be fitted  :borg:   :)    (although it's a lot of cost and will probably destroy your engine in a few months  :lol: ) Not putting it on mine... Already blew it up once  :doh:




Quote
I then spent far to long building this paper towel holder

And sturdy it looks too...  :clap:   How big is that roll!!!???


We're not in a rush on here, safe slow work is better than fast and injured  :thumbup:   (well that's my excuse  :lol: )


Pic's at your leisure  :coffee:





Ralph.



Mmmm... I wonder if I can get any more smileys into this thread  :scratch: 
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Offline j45on

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2010, 02:03:31 PM »
Divided he ad
I was only chatting at work the other day about ford sierras and how we had not seen one on the road for ages  :(
This was bought on by the fact we seem to have loads of capris appearing lately
The paper towel is only a 8" roll but as I had taken the piss out of my fathers towel holder ( old broom handle and some string ) I had to make something better.

I finally have some steel to start building this thing now



You may notice the tiny insert in the bag well I plan to buy some carbide insert tooling soon and the ones I'm looking at come with ccmt inserts
so I thought I would buy one for the ball turner as all my future tools would share the same inserts.
This insert is also supposed to give a better finish in aluminium (bugger I forgot to order the screw to go with it)
I did not realise how small it would be.  :doh:
Do you think I should get a bigger one ?
Jason

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2010, 07:24:14 PM »
Hi Jason,

I've heard of oneupmanship.... But from a piece of string to that!!!!  :nrocks:

Good stuff with the steel. Judjing from the size of your lathe and the steel you have there I'd say you want a carbide tip like mine?  That one looks like it could be fun to mount too!!

Mine are the larger one of these, the smaller ones were used in the mini ball turner.



For size reference....




Hope that helps?  (I just used a normal countersunk screw to hold mine down....trimmed the sides a little. M3 I think for the big one and M2/2.5 for the mini one... Was a while ago now... )


That insert you have there looks like one of the specials sharpened and polished for aluminium only??  Will be good to see what it does when you use it, I was eyeing those up a while ago...



The cars.... There will be ample opportunity to see hundreds of them on the 26th of September at a place called Stanford hall (apparently) just outside of rugby....  The roads will be heaving with RS's from MkI escort RS2000's upto todays new Focus RS's and I'll be one of them too :headbang: Should be fun  :thumbup:


Capri's .... It's hardly surprising when you see things like this....

 




Ok, slightly  :offtopic: But funny IMHO  :lol:




Hope you're having fun making the turner  :thumbup:







Ralph.
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Offline ksor

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2010, 05:32:11 AM »
Oh, yes - I'm making one too !

but I have NOT yet decided what kind of bit to use.

I wonder why most of you use this "arrowhead"-like bit - why not a round one - normaly a round bit gives a better finish.

Correct me (so I can choose the right one for my ball turner) !
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Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2010, 07:44:04 AM »
Oh, yes - I'm making one too !

but I have NOT yet decided what kind of bit to use.

I wonder why most of you use this "arrowhead"-like bit - why not a round one - normaly a round bit gives a better finish.

Correct me (so I can choose the right one for my ball turner) !
The pointed one will get further into the "corner" by the shaft, making a smaller fillet between the ball and the shaft.

There's nothing stopping you using both.  If you need the tight fillet, use a point, but if you don't, use a round one.  You just need to make an extra tool holder.

Offline j45on

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2010, 03:13:00 PM »
Slowly getting there  :hammer:
Lapped together with valve grinding paste
A little drop of oil and it is a pain to get apart  again:D


keychain torch + magnet = boring light  :dremel:

Jason

Rob.Wilson

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #17 on: September 09, 2010, 06:48:16 PM »
Nice project Jason  :thumbup:  

Hows coming along ?

Rob



Offline j45on

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #18 on: September 09, 2010, 07:05:16 PM »
Hi Rob
I have the material for the tool post now so hopefully I can make some progress this weekend   :hammer:
I still have not decided which type or size of insert I'm going to use yet  :scratch:
Jason

Offline j45on

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #19 on: September 12, 2010, 01:49:11 PM »
I'm nearly done just need to shorten the cap screws and make a handle.



Right off to ebay to search for inserts  :hammer:
Jason

Rob.Wilson

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2010, 03:45:41 PM »
Looks like you had a good shift in the shop Jason  :thumbup: :clap: :clap: :clap: :dremel:

You decided what insert you will be using ?

I must have a go at making a ball turning attachment  :proj:


Rob

Offline j45on

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2010, 04:20:06 PM »
"You decided what insert you will be using ?"
No not yet  :scratch:
A TCMT looks the easiest to fit
but I also like the double ended VBMT that Ralph used but I cant figure out if I have room I may have made the tool post a bit small it is 1/2" square
Jason

Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2010, 05:46:55 PM »
Mine's no more than 1/2" square at the top, and I use these:
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=380251788233&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Offline j45on

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2010, 05:55:06 PM »
Jason

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #24 on: September 15, 2010, 04:24:40 PM »
Hi Jason,

Looking good there  :thumbup:

The VBMT16 inserts I used are fitted into a 1/2" (well actually 12mm) upright. No bother though, the 11's are the ones I fitted in the mini turner and they cut very well too.

Nice of that site to give you all the info on the tips, I had to measure everything and work it all out for myself  :smart:


I can't remember accurately but I think I showed photo's of the process I used to fit the tips in giving the best support against sideways forces I could, I'm sure I posted a link somewhere on here  :scratch:  It's been a while since I was here  ::)



Not long now and we should see your .... Erm, well, spheres  :dremel:   :lol:   




Ralph.
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Offline j45on

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2010, 08:03:45 AM »
It's done  :D well nearly I have no stock to make a handle  :bang:
Actually I need stock for the ball as well I only had delrin
I quite like the half exposed cap screws so i'm not going to shorten them now


Ralph I went with the 16mm tip in the end so now I have 11mm and 16mm tips I will have to make something else to use the 11mm ones  :proj:
And I had read your posts on building the mini ball turner and fitting the tip  :bow:







Thanks for everybody's help  :beer: :nrocks:
Jason

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2010, 01:28:44 PM »
Spot on Jason  :thumbup: does the job well, never turned this delrin stuff but it looks a very smooth finish  :beer:



The tip looks spot on in there, you won't be disappointed with the cutting capabilities of them. I cut a lot of stainless with mine and it works a treat :)


Glad you found the post, I couldn't remember which one had it in  ::)

The 11mm tips can easily be used in a smaller tool post for finer work or even make some new turning tools? I've still got 5 of them myself.... I'll use 'em one day?




Have fun with the new addition, post up the rest when you have the stock  :thumbup:






Ralph.
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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #27 on: September 19, 2010, 02:51:00 PM »
You bought that knob  off Ebay  :poke: :poke:  :lol: :lol: :lol:

Really cracking job Jason ,,, well done  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :thumbup:


Rob

Offline j45on

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2010, 02:59:10 PM »
Finally finished  :ddb:
I found one bit of aluminium big enough for the ball and a bmw at work donated it's antiroll bar link arm for the handle (not very bling but it was free )
And finished with a bit of scotchbrite for a brushed/satin look



Then I decided to make a small one ( I only have 1' aluminium bar at the moment must go shopping )
And I thought I would buff it up a bit using a piece of sponge/foam and some polish I bought ages ago but never used  :bugeye:
I was impressed I might polish the big one as well now
Jason

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2010, 07:16:29 PM »
Nice!  :beer: 


That's some mighty fine looking balls you got there Jason       :lol:   (childish? Yes... but I couldn't resist  ::) )


Looks really clean when polished up too  :thumbup:


You'll soon be unstopaball    :doh:    I'll get me coat.....






Ralph.
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Offline Tinkering_Guy

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #30 on: September 28, 2010, 10:04:18 PM »
I've been noodling around with designing one of these.  Why be different?  Because I want to be able to have very fine control of the diameter (like down to the thousandth, at least).

So far no definite conclusions.  :bang:

I'll post when I actually have something other than vapourware..
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #31 on: September 28, 2010, 11:18:37 PM »
Nice job Jason!

That ball came out very nice.  :bow:

Eric
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Offline No1_sonuk

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #32 on: September 29, 2010, 05:10:01 AM »
I've been noodling around with designing one of these.  Why be different?  Because I want to be able to have very fine control of the diameter (like down to the thousandth, at least).
The boring head type is probably your best bet for that level of accuracy.

Offline Bernd

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Re: oh no another ball turner
« Reply #33 on: September 29, 2010, 11:10:16 AM »
Tinkering_Guy,

In the Nov./Dec. 2003 "The Home Shop Machinist" is a multi-part article on making a ball turner by Robert Bailey. It looks like he has the tool moving on a dovetail slide to advance the tool. Think of haveing the tool on the top slide and using that as advancing the tool by a certain amount.

I'd love to scan the pics but it would violate copy right.

Bernd
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